Legislature(2015 - 2016)BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)
04/16/2015 01:30 PM Senate LABOR & COMMERCE
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB131 | |
| HCR10 | |
| SB107 | |
| HB41 | |
| HB123 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | HB 131 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | HCR 10 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HB 41 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | SB 107 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | HB 123 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | HB 12 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
HB 41-SPORT FISHING SERVICES
5:39:15 PM
CHAIR COSTELLO announced the consideration of HB 41. "An Act
relating to sport fishing services, sport fishing operators, and
sport fishing guides; and providing for an effective date." She
noted this is the second hearing for the bill and public
testimony is open.
5:41:20 PM
CRYSTAL KOENEMAN, Staff, Representative Cathy Munoz, summarized
that HB 41 is to reestablish the sport fish guide licensing
program that sunsetted December 31, 2014. The only change is
that the fees are doubled.
SENATOR STEVENS noted a constituent is concerned about the
overly severe penalty of having his license revoked for two
paperwork violations. He asked where that is found in the bill
and how she would address that issue.
MS. KOENEMAN directed attention to the penalty section on page 5
that speaks to a person who knowingly violates a provision of
the sport fish statutes. A person is guilty of a violation for a
first offense. If there is a second or subsequent offense in a
three year period the person is guilty of a class B misdemeanor.
The constituent takes issue with the use of the word "knowingly"
and instead suggested using the term "intentionally." She
discussed the matter with both the Alaska Department of Fish and
Game (ADF&G) and legislative legal and learned that the burden
of proof for "intentionally" is substantially higher than for
"knowingly" and would be very difficult to prove. The number of
violations each year is extremely small and ADF&G has a
provision whereby it can work with a guide and issue a letter of
agreement to accommodate a special circumstance. For these
reasons the sponsors do not support the proposed amendment.
5:46:58 PM
SENATOR STEVENS said he understands the difficulty with the
higher burden of proof, but his constituent has no reasonable
way to get the logbook report to ADF&G in a timely manner when
he is on a two week big game hunt and his client does incidental
fishing.
MS. KOENEMAN said if there isn't a drop box near by the person
can mail the report. If the report is postmarked by the deadline
she believes that would be sufficient.
SENATOR STEVENS asked where you'd get an envelope postmarked in
the middle of a bear hunting trip.
MS. KOENEMAN said that's where that letter of agreement with
ADF&G come into play. "When they know they're going to be out in
the field and can't make those deadlines they can work with fish
and game to determine a time in which those logbooks can be
delivered when they fly back in from the remote areas and are
near a post office. Whether it's a couple of months out, it's
all between the guides themselves and fish and game to come up
with that agreement," she said.
SENATOR STEVENS expressed concern with the vagueness of the
solution and questioned the timeline.
MS. KOENEMAN deferred to ADF&G to outline how the letters of
agreement are drafted.
SENATOR GIESSEL asked to hear from Mr. Mulligan.
5:50:02 PM
BEN MULLIGAN, legislative liaison, Alaska Department of Fish and
Game (ADF&G), said he understands Senator Steven's concern about
the potential solution being vague, but the department does take
a case-by-case approach when it works with people who are unable
to get their reports in on time. ADF&G tries to be understanding
and the statute and regulations allows this latitude. It says
that the guide must follow the instructions in the logbook and
the instructions given by the department. The department has
approved special arrangements for a few guides in the last
couple of years and none that received the approval have had a
violation. He suggested that Mr. Brookover might have
supplemental information.
SENATOR STEVENS asked what the penalty is for someone who has
two paperwork violations.
MR. MULLIGAN replied it's a class B misdemeanor for a second or
multiple violations within a three-year period. He noted that
given the culpability standard of "knowingly," ADF&G only issues
about a dozen citations a year. The priority is to receive this
valuable data, not issue citations.
5:53:20 PM
SENATOR GIESSEL read Sec. 16.40.291(c)(1) on page 5 and observed
that there doesn't appear to be a penalty for a first offense.
She asked if that's true.
MR. MULLIGAN replied it is a bailable offense; the person would
receive a citation and fine.
SENATOR GIESSEL read Sec. 16.40.291(c)(2) on page 5 and asked if
that was the class B misdemeanor he referenced.
MR. MULLIGAN answered yes.
CHAIR COSTELLO asked Mr. Brookover if he had anything to add to
the discussion.
5:54:16 PM
TOM BROOKOVER, Acting Director, Division of Sport Fish, Alaska
Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G), reiterated the value of the
data that's collected through the logbook program. He explained
that the purpose of the program is to provide information on
business and guide effort in the state. The program provides
valuable information and to fulfill its purpose there must be
compliance. ADF&G seeks that compliance by working with the
guides as much as possible. The program was developed over a
number of years and included meetings with charter associations
and in communities so the department could better understand the
needs and limitations of guides and businesses. The department
works with the industry both in season and out to help with
compliance. When logbooks come in with missing information or
other problems come up during the season, staff reaches out to
businesses and guides to highlight and discuss the issues.
MR. BROOKOVER said there have been very few offenses in the last
two years, which is reflective of the compliance the department
has achieved over the years. They work with remote operators on
a case-by-case basis to find a solution to the timeliness
requirement. This is preferable to turning the matter over to
protection.
5:58:53 PM
SENATOR STEVENS referenced Sec. 16.40.291(d) that says the court
may revoke the sport fishing guide license if the person is
convicted under (a) or (c)(2) of the section, and commented that
the penalties seem rather draconian. He reiterated the concern
his constituent raised about the penalties because "knowingly
violates" could simply mean you don't get your logbook in on
time. He asked, "What is a bear trip? A month long, three weeks?
You know better than I."
MR. MULLIGAN admitted he didn't know, but the average was
probably two weeks.
MS. KOENEMAN pointed out that in subsection (a), AS 16.40.261 -
16.40.300 references the licensing provision, not an untimely
logbook.
MR. MULLIGAN agreed.
6:01:40 PM
SENATOR STEVENS asked Mr. Mulligan if he can understand his
constituent's concern. He has spent his lifetime building a
successful guiding business and has never committed a crime. Now
ADF&G says it could allow a grace period if he doesn't submit
his logbooks in a timely manner.
MR. MULLIGAN said he can understand the concern added, "All we
can do is go off our track record with the program so far and
Mr. Brookover's testimony." He said ADF&G would like to work
with this particular guide and figure out a plan. Both the
logbook coordinator and the law enforcement specialist have
contacted him to work with him and try to ease his mind.
6:03:53 PM
SENATOR STEVENS asked if he could see a way to write that into
the bill.
MR. MULLIGAN replied the standard of proof for "knowingly" is a
fairly high bar. If this constituent has turned a logbook in
late he hasn't been cited. The purpose of the program is to
collect data to better manage the resource.
SENATOR STEVENS said he understands the meaning of the term, but
the concern is that this person is at a remote site where there
is no post office and no planes coming and going.
CHAIR COSTELLO asked Mr. Bullard if he was available to talk
about the specific issue on page 5, line 22 and the difference
between "knowingly" and "intentionally."
6:05:46 PM
ALPHEUS BULLARD, Legislative Counsel, Legislative Legal
Services, Legislative Affairs Agency, Alaska State Legislature
stated that he did not want to talk in large form about the
issue, but would answer specific questions about the different
standards.
CHAIR COSTELLO asked the difference between "knowingly" and
"intentionally."
MR. BULLARD explained that the four mental states for crimes in
Alaska are intentionally, knowingly, recklessly and criminal
negligence. He read the definitions for the first two terms
provided in AS 11.81.900(a).
CHAIR COSTELLO opined that the key phrase is on page 5, line 23.
It talks about timely submission of reports and the department
would provide through regulation what is and is not timely. She
said it seems that the department could take this testimony into
consideration when someone is unable to submit their report per
the requirements.
SENATOR STEVENS said he realizes the importance of the data, but
he doesn't understand the harm it could do if it comes in a week
later than required. He asked why it couldn't be submitted at
the end of the hunt.
MR. MULLIGAN explained that the time was negotiated, primarily
with sport fishing guides. The majority in that industry did not
see the week timeframe as egregious.
6:11:21 PM
MR. BROOKOVER reported that about 1,200 businesses in the state
operate under the logbook program and many return to port every
day. As mentioned earlier, the week timeframe was the result of
discussions over several years and it seems to work. However,
there are a few remote operators and the department wants to
work with them and accommodate their circumstances to the extent
possible.
6:14:16 PM
PAUL JOHNSON, Guide, testified in opposition to HB 41. He
explained that this is strict liability law and it isn't just
the State Troopers that enforce this; it is also the National
Park Service, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife, the U.S. Coast Guard,
and NOAA. The penalty for a violation is more than simply paying
the fee. He related his personal experiences and stressed that
the program was sunsetted for a purpose. He suggested the
legislature put together a working group to deal with all the
associated issues or sunset the program after one or two years.
He questioned why electronic filing isn't possible because the
federal government has figured it out. [Much of this testimony
was indiscernible.]
6:22:24 PM
CHAIR COSTELLO closed public testimony.
SENATOR STEVENS commented that the testimony was interesting and
he made good points. He said his concerns have not been allayed
and he feels more study and more input is needed.
6:23:22 PM
At ease
6:23:28 PM
CHAIR COSTELLO reconvened the meeting and stated that the
discussion was about Senator Steven's concerns about the
legislation. She said the committee will include a letter from
Senator Stevens that will be forwarded to the Finance Committee.
The department has also heard the concerns.
6:24:10 PM
SENATOR GIESSEL motioned to report HB 41, labeled 29-LS0238\P.A,
from committee with individual recommendations and attached
fiscal note.
CHAIR COSTELLO announced that without objection, CSHB 41(FIN) AM
is reported from the Senate Labor and Commerce Standing
Committee.