Legislature(1993 - 1994)
03/11/1993 01:00 PM House CRA
| Audio | Topic |
|---|
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE COMMUNITY AND REGIONAL AFFAIRS
STANDING COMMITTEE
March 11, 1993
1:00 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Harley Olberg, Chairman
Representative Jerry Sanders, Vice-Chairman
Representative Con Bunde
Representative John Davies
Representative Cynthia Toohey
Representative Ed Willis
Representative Bill Williams
MEMBERS ABSENT
none
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HB 166: "An Act relating to enhanced 911 emergency
reporting systems; and providing for an effective
date."
CSHB 166 (CRA) PASSED FROM COMMITTEE WITH A DO
PASS RECOMMENDATION
*HB 180: "An Act relating to the residential housing
inspection requirements of the Alaska Housing
Finance Corporation."
HEARD AND HELD IN COMMITTEE
(* first public hearing)
WITNESS REGISTER
Representative Con Bunde
State Capitol, Room 112
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182
Phone: 465-4843
POSITION STATEMENT: Prime Sponsor of HB 166
Phillip Reeves, Deputy Attorney
Kenai Peninsula Borough
144 N. Binkley
Soldotna, AK 99669
Phone: 262-8607
POSITION STATEMENT: Proposed amendments to CSHB 166
Rocky Ansell, Emergency Medical Services
Glennallen Fire Department
P.O. Box 217
Copper Center, AK 99573
Phone: 822-3671
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported CSHB 166
John George
Alaska State Fire Fighters Association
Alaska State Fire Chiefs Association
9515 Moraine Way
Juneau, AK 99801
Phone: 789-0172
POSITION STATEMENT: Suggested amendment to CSHB 166
Larry Fanning, Fire Chief
City and Borough of Juneau
820 Glacier Avenue
Juneau, AK 99801
Phone: 586-5322
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported CSHB 166
Bob Evans, Lobbyist
Municipality of Anchorage
P.O. Box 22184
Juneau, AK 99802
Phone: 364-3360
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported CSHB 166
David Harding, Legislative Aide
to Representative Eileen Maclean
State Capitol, Room 507
Juneau, AK 99801-1182
Phone: 465-4833
POSITION STATEMENT: Gave an overview of HB 180
Steve Wisdom
Kenai Peninsula Builders Association
P.O. Box 4184
Homer, AK 99603
Phone: 235-5266
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed HB 180
Ron Anderson, ICBO Inspector
Unalaska, AK
Phone: 581-1373
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 180
Jim McCormack, Vice President
National Bank of Alaska
P.O. Box 100600
Anchorage, AK 99510-0600
Phone: 276-1132
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 180
Tony Doyle
State Home Builders Association
7984 Spur Hwy.
Kenai, AK 99611
Phone: 283-3886
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed to HB 180
Jim Stevens, Deputy Director
North Slope Borough Housing Department
P.O. Box 69
Barrow, AK 99723
Phone: 852-0290
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 180
Charlie Weiss
Outsiders Construction
P.O. Box 415
Nome, AK 99762
Phone: 443-5155
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 180
Jim Stroer, President
Kenai Peninsula Builders Association
335 Dolchok
Soldotna, AK 99611
Phone: 283-5661
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed HB 180
Myron McCumber
McCumber Construction
Box 1388
Barrow, AK 99723
Phone: 852-6588
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 180
Marvin Hanebuth
Hanebuth Builders
Box 1701
Nome, AK 99762
Phone: 443-5360
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 180
Michael Danner
Lone Rock Construction
Box 832
Barrow, AK 99723
Phone: 852-6100
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 180
Jim Stimpfle, Realtor
New Frontier Realty
Box 729
Nome, AK 99762
Phone: 443-2002
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 180
Robert Brean, Director
Rural Housing Loan Program
Alaska Housing Finance Corporation
520 E. 34th
Anchorage, AK 99503
Phone: 561-1900
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 180
Robin Harrison, Vice President
National Bank of Alaska, Barrow Branch
P.O. Box 209
Barrow, AK 99723
Phone: 852-6200
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 180
Mitch Erickson, Assistant Vice President and Branch Manager
National Bank of Alaska
Box 1469
Nome, AK 99762
Phone: 443-2223
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 180
Rudy Rudisel, Architect
P.O. Box 1938
Nome, AK 99762
Phone: 443-2979
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 180
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 166
SHORT TITLE: ENHANCED 911 SYSTEMS
BILL VERSION:
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) BUNDE
TITLE: "An Act relating to enhanced 911 emergency reporting
systems; and providing for an effective date."
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
02/18/93 381 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
02/18/93 381 (H) CRA, FINANCE
03/09/93 (H) CRA AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 124
03/09/93 (H) MINUTE(CRA)
03/11/93 (H) CRA AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 124
03/11/93 (H) MINUTE(STA)
BILL: HB 180
SHORT TITLE: AHFC HOUSING INSPECTION REQUIREMENTS
BILL VERSION:
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) MACLEAN
TITLE: "An Act relating to the residential housing
inspection requirements of the Alaska Housing Finance
Corporation."
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
02/25/93 455 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
02/25/93 455 (H) CRA, LABOR & COMMERCE
03/11/93 (H) CRA AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 124
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 93-12, SIDE A
Number 000
CHAIRMAN HARLEY OLBERG called the meeting to order at 1:10
p.m. He noted Representatives Bunde, Toohey, Williams,
Sanders, Davies and Willis were present.
HB 166: ENHANCED 911 SYSTEMS
Number 050
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN DAVIES addressed the second committee
substitute (CS) to HB 166 produced in subcommittee. He
testified, in part, "What I want to try to do is solve some
minor problems that I have... and I'm offering these in the
spirit of trying to make some minor improvements that I
think will help the bill along. ...One is just a minor one:
There was some language in there that said the
municipalities could accomplish this in instituting this
enhanced 911 system by resolution or by ordinance. ...It
was my feeling it would be better to do this by ordinance...
The committee substitute really gets rid of the word
'resolution' in there and also changes the construct of the
sentence so that the three things a municipality is being
authorized to do here, it's clear that each one of those
three things is done by ordinance.
Number 142
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES continued, "The second one...is a
question of what is the area of service... My concern that
I raised at the last committee meeting is we might get into
a situation where we had multiple jurisdictions involved...
If we went back to the original bill (HB 166), before the
committee substitute, there was language in there that
talked about how to handle (this), so basically all I've
done is taken that language from the original bill and put
it back in here... It says that the bottom line power to
set the charges rests with the individual communities. My
basic concern here is that we don't get into a situation of
sort of taxation without representation... However under
Title 29, municipalities may join together to exercise
power..."
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES added, "The last one is simply this
question of upper limit of what can be charged. I asked a
number of people why we were making a distinction between
Anchorage, effectively, and the rest of the state...nobody
gave me an answer that suggested there was any particular
reason to do that. So I simply suggested in this committee
substitute that we should get rid of all that language that
talks about 100,000 people and simply set the maximum at 75
cents. Recognizing that...every community, every
municipality sets its own upper limit."
Number 201
REPRESENTATIVE CON BUNDE, PRIME SPONSOR OF HB 166, reminded
the committee that HB 166 was introduced concurrently in the
Senate and said, "If we change it substantially then we've
got a problem: Conference Committee."
CHAIRMAN OLBERG asked where the Senate version was
presently.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE did not know. He added, "I have no
problem with the idea of an ordinance rather than a
resolution... Regarding, the 75 cents charge, I think
reality says that when we say, 'no more than 75 cents,' the
charge will be 75 cents. The 50 cents limit was supported
by the Anchorage municipality. There is some indication
that Anchorage may not want to support a greater charge than
that... I'm not sure that the change to 75 cents total
something that will be supportable..."
Number 267
PHILLIP REEVES, DEPUTY ATTORNEY, KENAI PENINSULA BOROUGH,
testified via teleconference from Soldotna. He said, "We
don't have any problem with changing things from resolution
or ordinance to ordinance. However, the changes that are
proposed for the next section would apparently cause us to
have to totally restructure 911 as we operate it at this
time. What we do is, about 6 or 8 years ago each of the
cities relinquished their 911 authority to the borough so
that the Kenai Borough provides 911 on an area-wide
basis...the cities themselves do not have direct input on
the operation and do not have the financial involvement in
the operation."
MR. REEVES continued, "...We've reached an agreement like a
contract, but our agreement is that the borough will do it
itself, so we're not a separate legal entity. And we're
certainly concerned that each of the municipalities retains
the power to set and amend the surcharge when the
municipalities aren't involved in the operation... So I
guess what we'd suggest...first of all instead of saying 'a
separate legal entity', you say 'a unified or cooperative
enhanced 911 system'..." He then gave a detailed
explanation of the changes he'd like to see made to CSHB
166.
MR. REEVES then said further, "As for the 75 cents versus 50
cents, I can tell you the history of that change.
Originally it was 50 cents only on the Senate side for SB
97. The municipality of Anchorage submitted 50 cents and, I
believe, had indicated that they would not support the bill
if it allowed for more than 50 cents. Basically, the
equipment and the system that we have to provide for 40,000
people is identical to the system that Anchorage provides to
its population so its the same cost except that we're a
large geographic area... It actually costs us more to
provide the same 911 system that Anchorage provides. So
we're real concerned about having the 75 cents go back down
to 50 cents for us."
Number 343
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said, "I'm a little bit puzzled as to
why this language gives rise to those concerns;" and
addressed the concerns in detail. He said, "The fundamental
concern that I have is that we don't get into a situation
where one municipality effectively enacts a tax or surcharge
on another municipality. Having said that, under Title 29,
any municipality may enter into a contract with another
municipality which effectively delegates their authority to
set that particular surcharge."
Number 364
MR. REEVES said, "My concern is that there's express
language here that says the municipalities retain the power
to set and amend the 911 surcharge... I think we already
have the authority that this amendment would provide. When
I look at this amendment, the only thing that I really see
that stands out is that it says the municipalities, even if
they contract cooperatively, will retain the power to set
and amend the 911 surcharge... I can certainly see a
possibility that one of the cities would come back now and
say, well, we have the power to set the surcharge."
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said, "My concern is that the way this
bill (HB 166) was originally written it seemed that it was
possible for one municipality without the consent of another
to set this rate..."
MR. REEVES said, "I haven't read this bill (HB 166) to see
whether or not this alters those facts, but under Title 29,
I think the authority of a municipality is limited to its
jurisdiction unless it meets the specific extraterritorial
(criteria)."
Number 416
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said, "That was specifically my
concern, that this bill (HB 166) would give the
municipalities that legal authority to extend their power
outside their boundaries for this purpose."
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked, "Would it address your concerns
if this (line 29 of the first CSHB 166) were to read 'the
municipalities are jointly to set and amend the 911
surcharge'."
MR. REEVES said, "I just got this this morning and didn't
really have a chance to think about both sides... I think
at this point I still have a concern unless it clearly
somehow states that where some municipalities have given up
their authority and transferred the authority to another
municipality, that the municipality that now has the
authority is the sole interest involved in setting those
charges."
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES offered to construct an amendment to
address Mr. Reeves concerns.
Number 461
ROCKY ANSELL, EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES, GLENNALLEN FIRE
DEPARTMENT, testified via teleconference from Glennallen.
He said, "You have my support on this bill (CSHB 166). I do
have one question though, I see most of the language
referring to municipalities and I wonder if there's going to
be any mechanism for the unorganized areas...to take a part
in this enhanced 911 project."
CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "At the present time, the very lack of
organization is, in fact, the answer to the question. There
is no legal entity to channel the funds back through from
the utility, as I understand it."
Number 477
MR. ANSELL described his situation, "Currently, the Copper
Valley telephone cooperative in the area of the Copper River
Basin provides 911 service, and to me it looks like it
should be fairly simple to develop a mechanism for that
utility to make direct payment...for that surcharge if
they're allowed to collect these monies from their
individual customers."
CHAIRMAN OLBERG asked if Copper Valley extended into Valdez.
MR. ANSELL replied, "Yes."
CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "Valdez could be the municipality
serving the entire Copper River Valley telephone geographic
area."
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES added, "Under Title 29, a municipality
may exercise powers extraterritorially."
REPRESENTATIVE CYNTHIA TOOHEY added, "At their request."
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said, "Absolutely."
Number 511
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES OFFERED an AMENDMENT to Mr. Reeves.
MR. REEVES tentatively concurred.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES offered to "get together and work out
some language that would be mutually acceptable".
JOHN GEORGE, ALASKA STATE FIRE FIGHTERS ASSOCIATION AND THE
ALASKA STATE FIRE CHIEFS ASSOCIATION, testified, "We support
the concept of enhanced 911. We believe it's important that
we have a funding mechanism and this bill (HB 166) does
it..." He suggested that "and other essential communication
equipment required by the system" be added throughout the
versions of CSHB 166.
Number 569
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said, "I think it's redundant... That
extension that you have in there is effectively incorporated
within."
MR. GEORGE said, "If that's clear... if that's legislative
intent."
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES reiterated the definition sought by
Mr. George was already incorporated in CSHB 166.
Number 583
LARRY FANNING, FIRE CHIEF, CITY AND BOROUGH OF JUNEAU,
testified briefly in favor of CSHB 166.
BOB EVANS, LOBBYIST, MUNICIPALITY OF ANCHORAGE, testified in
favor of CSHB 166, saying, "Mayor Fink has indicated support
for the 50 cent surcharge."
Number 600
REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY asked why Mayor Fink did not support
the 75 cents surcharge.
MR. EVANS did not know.
Number 609
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE talked about limiting the surcharge.
He asked Mr. Evans if he thought Anchorage would charge less
than the surcharge limit or if whatever the limit was set at
would "become the rate" charged.
MR. EVANS said, "From the mayor's perspective, I think that
he believes the pressure will go to whatever the limit is."
Number 625
CHAIRMAN OLBERG called an at ease at 1:47 p.m.
CHAIRMAN OLBERG reconvened the meeting at 1:52. He pointed
out the committee had two different committee substitutes to
HB 166 before them.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said, "I've just received information
that the City of Fairbanks is this evening going to pass a
resolution favoring my original committee substitute plus
the concerns expressed by Anchorage and Kenai, I would MOVE
my original committee substitute, I think that would
accomplish what I want to accomplish more quickly."
CHAIRMAN OLBERG acknowledged the MOTION to ADOPT
Representative Bunde's CSHB 166.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES OBJECTED and said, "If I understand
correctly, the concern is simply the question of the 75
cents. If that's the only concern, the simplest way would
be to adopt the version that I suggested and then amend that
back to put the 50 cent language back in there.
Number 640
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE retorted, "As I had indicated, there is
a large portion of the second committee substitute that
addresses some specific Fairbanks concerns and now that I
hear that they're going to endorse my original version, I
suggest we just go ahead with that, rather than complicate
things."
CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "Possibly it boils down to a pride of
authorship question."
Number 663
A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Davies and
Willis voted AGAINST the adoption of Representative Bunde's
committee substitute. Representatives Bunde, Sanders,
Toohey, Williams and Olberg voted FOR the adoption of
Representative Bunde's committee substitute.
Number 667
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE denied that a "pride of authorship"
existed. "I feel that this is going to more cleanly address
the problem of enhanced 911," he said. Representative Bunde
then MOVED that CSHB 166 be moved out of committee with
individual recommendations.
Number 684
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES OBJECTED and said, "It's always the
case, however, in this stage of the legislation, amendments
are made. If they weren't, there would be no point in us
hearing these things... With respect to resolutions that
are made: People pass those resolutions at the municipal
level knowing that things are going to get changed
slightly."
TAPE 93-12, SIDE B
Number 000
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES PROPOSED an AMENDMENT saying, "I would
like to SUBSTITUTE the language that's in my version, the
second version of the committee substitute. That would be
the language on page three of that draft that comes from
line 14 down through line 22 and would REPLACE the language
that's in the one that's before us right now on page three,
line 14 through 20."
Number 025
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said he had no objection to the
amendment.
The AMENDMENT PASSED.
Number 047
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said, "I'd like to MOVE the second
item which is on that same page three on the second
committee substitute, line 23, on page four, line seven and
SUBSTITUTE in the one that's before us from line 21 through
line five on page four... All I want to do is to substitute
the language that's here (to) make it more clear...what is
meant by the area and to address the concern that we don't
want to establish a principle in law here that says one
municipality may effectively establish a tax or surcharge on
another."
Number 074
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE OBJECTED saying, "In this case, as I
said, being Fairbanks took a look at this and didn't have a
major objection... I suggest we go ahead with my original
version (of the CS)."
Number 092
REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY asked, "Are there portions of that
amendment that you are willing to keep in?"
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said, "No."
The roll was called on AMENDMENT NUMBER TWO to the first
version (Representative Bunde's version) of CSHB 166.
Representatives Davies and Willis voted FOR the amendment.
Representatives Sanders, Williams, Toohey, Bunde and Olberg
voted AGAINST the amendment. The MOTION FAILED.
Number 119
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES MOVED that "we strike the language
that restricts the upper limit to 50 cents and use the
language that makes it consistent 75 cents statewide..."
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE OBJECTED.
A roll call vote was taken on the THIRD AMENDMENT proposed
to the first version of CSHB 166. Representatives Davies
and Willis voted FOR the amendment. Representatives
Sanders, Williams, Bunde, Toohey and Olberg voted AGAINST
the amendment. The MOTION FAILED.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE reminded the committee he had a MOTION
on the floor to pass CSHB 166 out of committee with
individual recommendations.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES REMOVED his previous OBJECTION.
The MOTION PASSED to move CSHB 166, as amended, out of
committee with individual recommendations.
CHAIRMAN OLBERG thanked Representative Davies for his
efforts on CSHB 166 (CRA).
Number 170
HB 180: AHFC HOUSING INSPECTION REQUIREMENTS
DAVID HARDING, LEGISLATIVE AIDE TO REPRESENTATIVE EILEEN
MACLEAN, testified reading from Representative MacLean's
sponsor statement. (A copy of this sponsor statement may be
found in the House Community and Regional Affairs Committee
Room, Capitol Room 110, and after the adjournment of the
second session of the 18th Alaska State Legislature, in the
Legislative Reference Library.)
MR. HARDING added, "The ICBO inspection requirements under
consideration we originally put into law in order to address
the concerns of some builders in the rail-belt area, and the
changes proposed here (in HB 180) would not affect any
builders on the road system. House Bill 180 would only
adjust the law to address problems that have arisen in rural
loan programs, affecting remote areas of the state."
Number 247
REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY asked, "I appreciate the streamlining
of this, but why not on a road accessible area? If it's
good for the rural area, why can't it be good for Copper
Center or Valdez?"
MR. HARDING replied, "In some places along the road system I
think it would make a lot of sense. I think the intent here
is to get at the excessive costs that are associated with
having to fly somewhere to a remote location in order to do
the inspections. I guess the problem with including parts
of the road system in it, is how you would determine which
parts of the road system would be eligible and which
wouldn't..."
REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY said, "My only comment is that an
inspector should be qualified to do everybody - a bank loan
or an Alaska Housing Finance Loan, or anything."
Number 285
STEVE WISDOM, KENAI PENINSULA BUILDER'S ASSOCIATION, read
testimony via teleconference from Homer, as submitted to
the committee members. (A copy of this testimony may be
found in the House Community and Regional Affairs Committee
Room, Capitol Room 110, and after the adjournment of the
second session of the 18th Alaska State Legislature, in the
Legislative Reference Library.) He said, "We cannot support
legislation which would allow inspections by anyone other
than an ICBO certified inspectors" and "The Alaska Housing
Finance Corporation (AHFC) should be given the authority to
deal with isolated problems of residential inspections in
rural areas on a case-by-case basis."
MR. WISDOM also read similar personal testimony into the
record. (A copy of this testimony may be found in the House
Community and Regional Affairs Committee Room, Capitol Room
110, and after the adjournment of the second session of the
18th Alaska State Legislature, in the Legislative Reference
Library.)
Number 345
RON ANDERSON, ICBO INSPECTOR, UNALASKA, testified via
teleconference in support of HB 180 saying, "...(Unalaska)
is about 800 air miles southwest of Anchorage... It would
be about $5,500 inspection to bring an ICBO inspector to
Unalaska for an inspection. I happen to be an ICBO
inspector and I'm not able to inspect my own work... I go
along with Mr. Wisdom's philosophy about the importance of
an ICBO inspection. I also go along wholeheartedly that
each case should be dealt with on a case by case basis.
...I do have a problem with some of the definitions in the
bill (HB 180)...rural would totally accept everybody in
Southeast Alaska, except for Haines."
MR. ANDERSON continued, "I also agree with a journeyman
carpenter conducting inspections. Who decides what a
journeyman carpenter is?... Maybe AHFC could come up with a
step-by-step procedure to conduct these inspections. So if
there was not a qualified individual available, maybe a
licenced electrical administrator or a licensed mechanical
administrator or a licensed structural engineer could take
this list along..."
Number 405
JIM MCCORMACK, VICE PRESIDENT, NATIONAL BANK OF ANCHORAGE,
testified via teleconference from Anchorage, in support of
HB 180. He read from the letter which was provided to the
committee. (A copy of this letter may be found in the House
Community and Regional Affairs Committee, Capitol Room 110,
and after the adjournment of the second session of the 18th
Alaska State Legislature, in the Legislative Reference
Library.) He added, "We believe the home owners of the
rural areas not accessible by road are the most severely
impacted in the current legislation. Opposition to parts of
this house bill (HB 180) are from persons who do not live in
these areas and do not experience the same difficulties. In
our conversations with our rural customers, they
overwhelmingly support HB 180 in its entirety..."
Number 470
TONY DOYLE, STATE HOME BUILDERS ASSOCIATION, testified via
teleconference from Soldotna. He said, "We do want to do
what's necessary to alleviate these expenses that are
astronomical for inspections...case by case basis, how do
you write that into law? It might be possible to
specifically exempt the Rural Housing Loan Program and draft
it right in its legislation because that was the intent. It
may be a possibility to exempt communities under a certain
population size. Another idea might be that we go ahead and
allow non-certified people to make inspections for a period
of one year and give those people in the rural areas a
chance to become certified inspectors. If someone really
truly is qualified to inspect residential housing, it should
not be that big of a problem to pick up the regular
certification..."
REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY asked, "Why can't we have this type of
inspector all over the state for Alaska housing?"
MR. DOYLE said, "When we initially put this legislation in,
we wanted that bench mark of ICBO inspections simply because
that's the way to have inspectors know what they're doing."
Number 518
REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY asked, "Is there equal parity as far
as pay? Is the rural person going to have to pay more for
this inspection or less? If we're keeping them equal then
I have no problem with it and I support the bill (HB 180)."
MR. DOYLE replied, "Outside of municipalities, a home
builder would need to hire an ICBO inspector, and currently
that cost from inspections ranges anywhere between 400 and
600 dollars for a home...for your four inspections."
Number 526
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked, "How difficult is it and how
expensive is it for someone to become an ICBO certified
inspector? Is it possible that all communities of any size
could have their own resident inspector?"
MR. DOYLE said, "Alaska Housing was generous enough last
year to hold two week long seminars preparing people to take
the ICBO test. It would be my hope that Alaska Housing
would be (again) willing to assist, to help these
communities out in the rural areas..."
Number 548
JIM STEVENS, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, NORTH SLOPE BOROUGH HOUSING
DEPARTMENT, testified via teleconference from Barrow, in
support of HB 180. He said, "I think it provides the
latitude we need up here to hold the inspection costs down"
and added, "...The testing date to become an ICBO certified
inspector is set nationwide, so it's a very inflexible
program, as far as actual dates. ...In addition to this
there are many standards in ICBO that don't apply to the
Arctic Slope."
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked, "As you understand the intent of
this bill (HB 180), do you understand it to mean a
contractor could inspect and sign off his own work or... a
second person to do this?"
MR. STEVENS replied, "We would still need a third party to
inspect. As much as I like our contractors, I would still
require someone else to look at their work."
Number 581
CHARLIE WEISS, OUTSIDERS CONSTRUCTION, NOME, testified
briefly via teleconference from Nome, in favor of HB 180.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked, "As this expands the pool of
inspectors would you anticipate excluding the cost of
transportation, that the price of inspections would go
down?"
MR. WEISS said, "Yes."
Number 603
JIM STROER, PRESIDENT, KENAI PENINSULA BUILDERS ASSOCIATION,
testified via teleconference from Soldotna saying, "I know
that Alaska Housing has merged and that has created a
problem, but I think that should be able to be addressed
through Alaska Housing in that merge."
Number 615
MYRON MCCUMBER, MCCUMBER CONSTRUCTION, BARROW, testified via
teleconference from Barrow, in support of HB 180 and added,
"We would like to see if this can't be worked out, some kind
of an equitable fee structure, maybe a fee pool,
administered by the state that would allow every builder to
pay the same costs. So that the Kenai and other home
builders' associations could subsidize our high expenses in
these inspections."
Number 625
MARVIN HANEBUTH, HANEBUTH BUILDERS, NOME, testified briefly
via teleconference from Nome, in support of HB 180.
Number 630
MICHAEL DANNER, LONE ROCK CONSTRUCTION, BARROW, testified
via teleconference from Barrow, in support of HB 180 saying,
"I am not against inspections of home... However, the big
costs related to these inspections seems to be
transportation, and in the same way a state road or a
subsidized ferry system lowers the cost of inspection in
other areas... I think that something needs to be done to
either, and I support fully HB 180, either we need to do
that or make some other arrangements to pay for the high
cost of transporting and putting these inspectors up while
they're in the area."
Number 648
JIM STIMPFLE, NEW FRONTIER REALTY and PRESIDENT OF THE NOME
CHAMBER OF COMMERCE, testified via teleconference from Nome
saying, "Basically I support this legislation but I think
the operative word is...'or by another person approved by
the corporation.' I think that in the rural areas the
bottom line is that these inspections are going to cost
extra for the builder and the buyer. If there's some way
that AHFC can implement a training program or inform rural
residents about how this program works so that we can
identify either four or five or six other people that may
not be exactly ICBO certified...then this program would be
very workable for us in Nome."
Number 673
ROBERT BREAN, DIRECTOR, RURAL HOUSING LOAN PROGRAM, AHFC,
testified from Anchorage via teleconference saying, "On one
hand yes, we do agree with the concept that we want quality
housing across the state, and the way to do that is through
insuring that homes are built to proper code. On the other
hand, we do recognize the undue burden placed on rural
Alaska and we think HB 180 goes a long way to find that
middle ground and create that flexibility for the rural
borrower that would allow us to do the right thing in rural
Alaska and ensure that quality housing is still there."
TAPE 93-13, SIDE A
Number 000
ROBIN HARRISON, VICE PRESIDENT, BARROW BRANCH - NATIONAL
BANK OF ALASKA testified in favor of HB 180 via
teleconference from Barrow saying, "I do agree with the
inspection process, however, there is one basic problem that
cripples rural housing development, it's the strict criteria
set out to become an inspector. Because of the ICBO
criteria to become eligible, we have very few inspectors
readily available...and because there are four minimum
visits required... This winter, we had five construction
loans, five construction projects on hold, loan commitments
hanging, contractors holding back and, of course, the
borrowers bouncing off the walls..."
Number 052
MITCH ERICKSON, ASSISTANT VICE PRESIDENT AND BRANCH MANAGER,
NATIONAL BANK OF ALASKA, NOME, concurred with Ms. Harrison's
testimony via teleconference from Nome.
Number 062
RUDY RUDISEL, ARCHITECT, testified via teleconference from
Nome saying, "I'm in favor of this HB (HB 180) especially
expanding the pool of inspectors. It costs so much to build
buildings down here, and transportation of the ICBO
inspectors adds quite a bit to the cost of the building.
Our material costs are more than double what they are in
Anchorage..."
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked why there were no inspectors
locally in Nome.
MR. RUDISEL said, "Nobody has the training right now for
that."
Number 092
MR. ANDERSON of Unalaska confirmed his earlier support for
HB 180 and reminded the committee he would like the AHFC to
have "case-by-case" discretion. He said, "Look at this
testimony, and realize that you can fly to Seattle and back
cheaper than we can fly to Anchorage one way."
MR. DOYLE testified again saying, "I do support the intent
of (HB) 180 in that we do want to get this problem rectified
for the folks out in these outlying areas. Alaska Housing
invested about $150,000 having ICBO come up and run testing
last year. So ICBO has some flexibility built in their
program, and it might be possible...they'd be willing to do
some sort of correspondence work with these outlying areas."
Number 129
REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS asked, "Would it be acceptable... if
we enacted this... for two years?"
MR. MCCORMACK via teleconference pointed out, "The AHFC
found there's not enough volume in some of these smaller
areas, the rural areas, as far as home building volume, to
really justify having a resident home building industry to
begin with... The intent of HB 180 is not to exempt any of
the rural areas from inspections... We're not in favor of
that."
Number 176
CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "I didn't understand that anybody was
talking about exempting particular areas, I think we
understand this is a means by which extremely rural areas
might derive some economic benefits as it relates to
inspections associated with AHFC loans."
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said, "Obviously, I don't live in these
areas and haven't built in those areas and would like to
allow them as much flexibility as possible, as long as it's
in line with good building practices, safe building
practices. I hear too many horror stories about substandard
housing being built in the Bush, and that is my only caveat.
...I certainly wouldn't want anybody to think that one
contractor would inspect the other contractor, it would be
just too cozy."
CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "It appears to me the intent is...it
has to be either an architect, an engineer, or another
person approved by the corporation. I can tell you from my
personal experience, having banked in Tok and Delta which
are relatively next door compared to many parts of the
state, that it's still tough, even being on the road system,
it's very difficult, and I sympathize with these remote
areas."
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said, "I certainly support the thrust
of HB 180... I am a little bit concerned though about the
standard that we would be setting here. So I would, just
for purposes of discussion, strike the architect and
engineer language on line 12 (page 2) and just leave it
'another person' and then insert after the word 'person',
'certified' so it would be another person certified and
approved by the corporation. ...It would allow the
corporation to establish an alternate certification
program... I don't believe that the licencing provisions
under AS 08.48 really assure us that an architect, for
example, is qualified to make these inspections."
Number 262
CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "I would expect that Alaska Housing
would have fairly stringent standards for people who do not
meet the existing standards."
REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY PROPOSED an AMENDMENT and WITHDREW her
proposal.
ANNOUNCEMENT
CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "This bill certainly doesn't have to
move today." He offered to bring up HB 180 again on
Tuesday, March 16, 1993.
REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS reminded Mr. Harding to address the
questions the committee raised today, on Tuesday, March 16,
1993.
Number 316
ADJOURNMENT
CHAIRMAN OLBERG adjourned the meeting at 3:03 p.m.
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