Legislature(2021 - 2022)BARNES 124
04/27/2021 08:00 AM House COMMUNITY & REGIONAL AFFAIRS
Note: the audio ![]()
and video ![]()
recordings are distinct records and are obtained from different sources. As such there may be key differences between the two. The audio recordings are captured by our records offices as the official record of the meeting and will have more accurate timestamps. Use the icons to switch between them.
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB16 | |
| HB11 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | HB 16 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | HB 11 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
HB 16-SEARCH AND RESCUE SURPLUS STATE PROPERTY
8:04:42 AM
CO-CHAIR SCHRAGE announced that the first order of business
would be HOUSE BILL NO. 16, "An Act relating to the right of
first refusal of a volunteer search and rescue group with
respect to surplus state property."
8:05:09 AM
CO-CHAIR HANNAN moved to adopt the proposed committee substitute
(CS) for HB 16, Version 32-LS0128\B, Bannister, 4/19/21, as a
work draft.
8:05:21 AM
CO-CHAIR SCHRAGE objected for the purpose of discussion.
8:05:32 AM
REPRESENTATIVE DELENA JOHNSON, Alaska State Legislature, as
prime sponsor, presented HB 16. She explained that there is
similar legislation making its way through the Senate, and the
proposed CS was created to conform with the bill in the Senate.
She said the CS would broaden the scope of search and rescue
groups contained under the proposed legislation. In response to
Co-Chairs Hannan and Schrage, she said she thinks the changes
that would be made under the proposed CS are good.
8:08:49 AM
SAVAYA BIEBER, Staff, Representative DeLena Johnson, Alaska
State Legislature, explained the changes made under a proposed
committee substitute for HB 16 on behalf of Representative
Johnson, prime sponsor. She said there are 1,100 search and
rescue groups across Alaska that do the following rescue
missions: avalanche, flood, grid rescues, lost sailors and
hikers, and people trapped in collapsed buildings. The rescue
groups receive little to no financial compensation. The
proposed legislation would allow these groups to exercise first
right to obtain surplus state property that may be necessary to
carry out search and rescue missions after state agencies have
had the opportunity to buy the property.
MS. BIEBER explained that the Department of Public Safety (DPS)
would decide what property is necessary for the rescue groups,
and the Department of Administration (DOA) would choose
regulations and price. Groups approved by DOA would receive a
list of items going up for auction. She offered further details
about the auction process, including that the items would be
available to the search and rescue groups for 7-14 days before
they are made available to the general public. She noted people
available for questions.
8:10:43 AM
The committee took an at-ease from 8:10 a.m. to 8:12 a.m.
8:12:03 AM
CO-CHAIR SCHRAGE announced that the committee would hear invited
testimony.
8:12:18 AM
MARK STIGAR, President, Alaska Search and Rescue Association,
listed his experience in search and rescue, including
volunteering with "MAT+SAR Search & Rescue" in the Matanuska-
Susitna ("Mat-Su") Valley, training and safety board member,
canine handler, and incident commander. He said he retired from
running the Alaska Army National Guard Aviation Program, which
uses Blackhawk helicopters, and he was involved in hundreds of
search and rescue and medivac operations in his 10 years with
the guard. He noted that unique to Alaska is that all land
search and rescue fall under the Alaska State Troopers, while in
other states they fall under county sheriffs.
MR. STIGAR said the Alaska Search and Rescue Association (ASRA)
is the Alaska State Trooper's search and rescue first
responders, and it operates with little or no funding, other
than limited reimbursement from the Alaska State Troopers for
fuel, plane tickets, and [costs resulting from] minor equipment
damage. Many times ASRA runs the search. To be effective, its
volunteers need equipment beyond their personally owned trucks,
all-terrain vehicles (ATVs), and boats. He said ASRA was losing
its certification for its canines. He explained the process by
which a canine works on a boat with humans and can detect human
remains under water, but said the person with a boat left the
search team. All other expenses are out of pocket or gained
through fund-raising. Mr. Stigar said ASRA is looking at HB 16
as a means to gain benefits found in other states, wherein basic
equipment is available to conduct searches. He offered to
answer questions.
8:15:21 AM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE relayed his experience 30 years ago
handling a search dog. He asked whether "govdeals.com" would
allow search and rescue volunteers access to federal surplus
items, as well as state.
MR. STIGAR responded that he has gone through the process "to
get MAT+SAR on that list" and periodically it receives "an e-
mail from them." Generally the surplus items available are
office equipment.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON suggested someone from DOA could add to
Mr. Stigar's response.
8:17:25 AM
THOR VUE, Chief Procurement Officer, Office of Procurement and
Property Management, Department of Administration, confirmed
that volunteer rescue groups could get federal surplus items
from govdeals.com, and he said to do so would require signing
up.
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE expressed a desire for the legislature to
help. He then asked Mr. Stigar whether MAT+SAR has "a higher
priority" on the govdeals.com list.
8:19:24 AM
MR. STIGAR offered his understanding that MAT+SAR is just on the
list. He said the group has a point of contact person. He
added that MAT+SAR has never tried to obtain anything [from
govedeals.com], so he does not know the process.
8:19:50 AM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCARTY asked whether there was a timeframe under
HB 16 by which the search and rescue groups had priority to
obtain items before they were offered to the general public.
MS. BIEBER reiterated that the time would be 7-14 days.
8:20:30 AM
REPRESENTATIVE HANNAN asked Mr. Vue if the search and rescue
groups would be acting as state agencies in their acquisition of
items through deals.com.
MR. VUE replied that they would not be "acting as state entities
at no cost for these properties." The properties would be
acquired at fair market value. The first line of transfer of
surplus goods would remain interdepartmental; the second line of
transfer would be search and rescue organizations; the third
tier would be the general public.
CO-CHAIR HANNAN asked how DOA would determine which of the
search and rescue entities get a boat, for example, if more than
one of them wanted the boat.
MR. VUE speculated there would be an evaluation of the specific
needs of each entity, and the department may determine "whether
there is the opportunity to acquire the property at a little bit
higher cost than what is being listed just to see if there is a
way for us to implement that in the most fair manner."
REPRESENTATIVE HANNAN asked what the current process is for
state entities vying for the same item. She explained that she
wants to ensure that the search and rescue groups that would
qualify for surplus items under HB 16 would not be "competing in
a cutthroat way for vital resources that they need" while also
ensuring DOA is not overburdened in the process.
8:25:23 AM
MR. VUE answered that in-house, the property is awarded to the
agency that asks for it first. For the general public, the
property is awarded to the highest bidder. He said perhaps "it
could be some sort of hybrid function for the search and rescue
groups."
8:26:16 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON shared that the original bill addressed
only the search and rescue organizations that work for the state
through the Alaska State Troopers. She then related that "many
of these groups will pay out of pocket, so it doesn't take away
the need for a grant necessarily, it just makes things
available." She said groups such as ones that work with search
and rescue dogs are funded fully in other states but not in
Alaska, where its members pay their expenses out of pocket. She
said she does not think DOA has a process for dispensing of
property "pre-public disposal" yet; however, "that is something
that we can define as we go."
8:28:20 AM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE speculated that search and rescue groups
would have to pay for transport of any item they acquired from
state surplus not in their area; therefore, if a boat were
available through state surplus and located in King Salmon, he
surmised, the only people that would bid on it would be "the
people around King Salmon that would be able to get to that boat
pretty cheap." He further speculated that the state has certain
areas where surplus items are stored. He asked Mr. Vue for
comment.
8:29:43 AM
MR. VUE replied that economics is not the only driver and
entities far from the item needed are willing to take the
responsibility to transport it.
8:31:31 AM
CO-CHAIR HANNAN referenced AS 18.60.120, which refers to search
and rescue parties and does not distinguish between the various
types, and she asked Mr. Stigar to talk about which groups may
be included under statute.
8:32:37 AM
MR. STIGAR responded that the most accurate list of search and
rescue groups is maintained by the Alaska State Troopers. He
indicated that [the proposed legislation] would include anyone
that is known by the Alaska State Troopers to conduct search and
rescue missions.
8:34:21 AM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCARTY noted there are areas in the state far
from any troopers; therefore, he asked for confirmation that [HB
16] would include any organized search and rescue group in
Alaska.
MR. STIGAR answered that was his original intent. He offered
his understanding that remote areas would follow the same
process, wherein information would be spread through the village
and then the Alaska State Troopers would be notified.
8:35:46 AM
CO-CHAIR HANNAN said it appears the groups listed under AS
18.60.120 are those that the Alaska State Troopers can utilize.
She questioned whether there is an active list and how many
groups there are.
8:36:27 AM
LIEUTENANT PAUL FUSSEY, Search and Rescue Coroner, Alaska State
Troopers, Department of Public Safety, related there are some
501(c)(3) groups that can be deployed across the state, as well
as small search and rescue entities in each village across the
state that can be deployed to do searches at the request of the
Alaska State Troopers.
8:37:22 AM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE offered his understanding that the
Department of Natural Resources (DNR) utilizes a voluntary
assistance program to provide surplus items to volunteer fire
fighters, and "this is sort of separate from that."
8:38:01 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON responded that it seems like an oversight
that Alaska's search and rescue groups are paying for search and
rescue out of their own pockets; those are the groups targeted
under HB 16.
8:38:47 AM
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND noted the use of the word "obsolete" and
asked how, if the state is getting rid of equipment because it
is obsolete, that equipment would be useful to search and rescue
operations.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON remarked that "one man's trash is another
man's treasure" and said the homily illustrates that something
that is considered obsolete by the state could be something a
local organization could use.
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND noted that search and rescue dogs are
expensive and trained for specific purposes. She asked whether
the dogs are the personal property of search and rescue
volunteers, and she speculated that the volunteers would need to
raise funds to acquire such animals.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON responded that these animals are a cost
borne by the search and rescue groups as a "labor of love." She
said the search dogs she has known were each paired with one
human, and they are not "surplus" dogs.
8:41:48 AM
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE, having done search and rescue with dogs,
proffered that the dog is part of the trainer's family. He said
he spent hundreds of hours training a dog named "Toga" from the
time she was a pup. He confirmed there would be no surplus in
terms of dogs.
8:42:27 AM
MR. STIGAR added that what got him into search and rescue was a
new dog he had and the desire to do more with her than having
her be his exercise buddy. He said the trainer/owner bears the
cost of vaccinations and potential injuries.
8:43:05 AM
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND relayed that during her time on the
Anchorage School Board, she learned about the police using a dog
to search hundreds of lockers for any suspect materials. She
noted dogs have a limited time in which they can stay on a scent
track. She commented on the emotional nature of having a dog
find a body in the water, for example, and she expressed that a
conversation about this topic is helpful in educating members of
the committee.
8:44:28 AM
CO-CHAIR HANNAN asked about a short title on page 1, line 6, of
the proposed CS, which read as follows:
SHORT TITLE. This Act may be known as the Ellie
Mae Act.
8:44:58 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON related her understanding that Ellie Mae
was the name of a service dog; she said that language was not
part of the original bill.
8:45:11 AM
CO-CHAIR SCHRAGE removed his objection to the motion to adopt
the proposed CS for HB 16, Version 32-LS0128\B, Bannister,
4/19/21, as a work draft. There being no further objection,
Version B was before the committee.
8:45:23 AM
CO-CHAIR SCHRAGE announced that HB 16 was held over.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| 4.23.2021 HB 16 Sponsor Statement.pdf |
HCRA 4/27/2021 8:00:00 AM HCRA 4/29/2021 8:00:00 AM |
HB 16 |
| 4.23.2021 HB16 Ver. A.PDF |
HCRA 4/27/2021 8:00:00 AM HCRA 4/29/2021 8:00:00 AM |
HB 16 |
| 4.23.2021 HB 16 Sectional.pdf |
HCRA 4/27/2021 8:00:00 AM HCRA 4/29/2021 8:00:00 AM |
HB 16 |
| 2021.4.27 HB 16 CS ver. B.pdf |
HCRA 4/27/2021 8:00:00 AM HCRA 4/29/2021 8:00:00 AM |
HB 16 |
| 2021.4.27 HB 16 DOA Fiscal Note.pdf |
HCRA 4/27/2021 8:00:00 AM HCRA 4/29/2021 8:00:00 AM |
HB 16 |
| 4.23.2021HB 11 Sponsor Statement.pdf |
HCRA 4/27/2021 8:00:00 AM HCRA 4/29/2021 8:00:00 AM |
HB 11 |
| 4.23.2021 HB 11 ver A.PDF |
HCRA 4/27/2021 8:00:00 AM HCRA 4/29/2021 8:00:00 AM |
HB 11 |
| 4.23.2021 HB 11 Sectional Analysis.pdf |
HCRA 4/27/2021 8:00:00 AM HCRA 4/29/2021 8:00:00 AM |
HB 11 |