Legislature(2017 - 2018)BUTROVICH 205
04/17/2018 03:30 PM Senate STATE AFFAIRS
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HCR19 | |
| HB97 | |
| HB7 | |
| HB235 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | HCR 19 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | HB 97 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HB 7 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HB 235 | TELECONFERENCED | |
HB 7-MARKED BALLOT PHOTOS; PERSUASION AT POLLS
4:16:41 PM
CHAIR MEYER called the committee back to order and announced the
consideration of House Bill 7 (HB 7).
4:17:15 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JONATHAN KREISS-TOMKINS, Alaska State
Legislature, Juneau, Alaska, sponsor of HB 7, provided an
overview as follows:
This bill would officially allow Alaska voters to take
and share "ballot selfies" the photos that people
take of themselves or their ballots in the voting
booth. Technically, it's illegal to share one in
Alaska right now, though in practice, the law goes
unenforced.
Sharing ballot photos was traditionally prohibited to
prevent voter intimidation and vote buying (e.g.,
someone tells or pays you to vote a certain way, and
makes you show a picture of your ballot to prove you
did). But technology and the internet have changed the
reasons we take and share pictures: ballot selfies
have become a common way to express support for a
candidate, a cause, or the act of voting itself.
Alaska would be stepping into well-charted territory
by allowing ballot selfies. Many other states
recognize ballot selfies as a form of political
speech, protected under the First Amendment. Bans on
selfies have been struck down as unconstitutional in
New Hampshire, Indiana, Nebraska, Rhode Island,
Michigan, California, and Utah, joining states like
Washington, Oregon, California, and Montana which
never outlawed selfies to begin with.
There's no evidence to suggest ballot buying is a
widespread problem in Alaska: the state does not
enforce the current law that bans ballot photos. If
ballot selfies are legalized, standing laws which
criminalize voting interference would remain (AS
15.56).
REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS summarized that "ballot selfies"
is technically illegal but is not enforced and arguably
unconstitutional. He noted that the law has never been
challenged in court. He set forth that HB 7 effectively brings
the law into alignment with what is currently happening while
acknowledging and recognizing the "ballot selfies" practice is
legal and an expression of free speech. He added that the law
results in ambiguity where the Division of Election receives
calls who might have posted a photo of their ballot to enquire
if their act was illegal.
SENATOR WILSON noted that Section 1(a)(2) pertains to the
prohibition of political persuasion near election polls as
follows:
Physically display a photo, video, or other image of
the person's or another person's market ballot in an
attempt to persuade a person to vote for or against a
candidate, proposition, or question.
He asked if the intent of the section is to address a person
that displays their selfie photo.
4:19:29 PM
NOAH STAR, Staff, Representative Kreiss-Tomkins, Alaska State
Legislature, Juneau, Alaska, answered as follows:
What that section allows is for someone to share a
photo of their ballot with another person or with the
public on line 11. So, if I were to take a picture of
my ballot, I could post it on Instagram or Facebook,
or share it with my friend, "Hey, this is my ballot
selfie, this is who I vote for, I'm very excited about
it," after I left the polling place.
CHAIR MEYER noted that Anchorage has gone to a ballot by mail
and asked what would happen if a person takes a selfie with
their ballot.
MR. STAR replied that the prohibition only deals with voting in
the polling place. He added that there is a separate section of
election statutes that talks about absentee law, but the
proposed prohibition does not apply to the absentee section of
law.
CHAIR MEYER asked if the proposed bill would not be necessary if
the state goes to a mail-in ballot.
REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS answered correct. He disclosed
that he is on the elections working group with Senator Stevens
and noted that the group has been contemplating how things have
worked for the Municipality of Anchorage. He opined that if
Alaska ever considered vote by mail, the system would likely be
a hybrid that continues to incorporate polling places.
CHAIR MEYER asked if allowing selfies in polling places would be
disruptive.
4:22:22 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS noted that selfies were currently
happening. He remarked that it is hard to say within a ballot
booth if a person is taking a long time to contemplate their
ballot or taking a photo.
CHAIR MEYER pointed out that currently a poll worker could tell
a person they could not take a selfie whereas there is nothing a
poll worker could do should the proposed bill pass.
REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS answered as follows:
Right now I'm not sure there is any scenario in which
a poll worker can, I mean if someone is taking a lot
of time in the ballot box I'm not sure anyone is able
to because you're not allowed to look in, whether they
are just reading every last word at excruciatingly
slow pace of a ballot initiative or a constitutional
amendment or whether it's because they are taking a
photo, I'm not sure what recourse exists if somebody
is taking a long time in a ballot box, I've actually
never contemplated the question. I can say it hasn't
come up thus far as an issue or concern, at least from
the Division of Elections, not to say that it isn't
happening out there somewhere.
SENATOR GIESSEL asked for a sectional analysis because she was
not clear what the bill is doing
4:24:58 PM
MR. STAR provided the sectional analysis for HB 7 as follows:
Section 1
Amends AS 15.15.170 to prohibit any attempt to
persuade other voters through the physical display of
a photo, video, or other image of a person's ballot in
a polling place or within 200 feet of any entrance to
a polling place.
Section 2
Conforming change to existing AS 15.15.280 due to the
new subsection created in section 3.
Section 3
This section is the central policy change. Amends AS
15.15.280 to exempt "ballot selfies" from the
statutory prohibition on exhibiting marked ballots. A
new subsection (b)(2) allows a voter to share a photo,
video, or other image of her or his own marked ballot
with the public, if they so choose, subject to the
restriction established in section 1.
He summarized that the bill creates a narrow exception to the
existing prohibition on exhibiting a marked ballot. He specified
that the exception is authorized in section 3.
4:26:17 PM
SENATOR GIESSEL addressed section 2 as follows:
So, it says here that the voter cannot display a
photograph of the ballot that would enable another
person to ascertain how the voter market the ballot.
Is that a correct interpretation of the words written
on that section?
MR. STAR answered yes. He added that the "B" point in section 3
establishes the exception.
SENATOR GIESSEL continued as follows:
Right, I'm sticking to section 2 right now. So, they
can take a picture of themselves with a ballot but not
the actual marked areas of the ballot?
MR. STAR answered yes. He said section 2 says that a person
cannot take a picture of their ballot so that one could figure
out how a person marked their ballot.
SENATOR GIESSEL continued as follows:
Okay, that's correct, that's what I just said and I'm
asking you if that's a correct interpretation?
Now I'm going to ask you about section 3. So, what
section 3 seems to be saying is once you leave the
polling place, you can send that picture that you've
taken that does not show how you marked your ballot,
but you can send it after you leave the 200 feet from
the entrance of the polling place.
MR. STAR replied as follows:
If I'm understanding correctly, I think I'd only amend
what you said to say that you can take a picture of
the ballot and once you leave the polling place this
section 3 allows you to post that picture and share
your marked ballot on the internet or with someone
else.
SENATOR GIESSEL responded as follows:
Which is what I think I just said but perhaps I wasn't
clear, but the fact of the matter is when you say,
"marked ballot," the person who receives this picture
regardless of where you are standing or what time of
day it is, cannot ascertain how you voted on that
ballot.
4:28:18 PM
MR. STAR explained as follows:
You can post a picture of your ballot in such a way
that shows who you voted for as established by section
3, that's what the exception allows and apologizes if
I'm not understanding properly what you are
suggesting, but what section 3 allows is that you can
post a picture of your ballot in such a way that it
does show who you voted for.
SENATOR GIESSEL replied as follows:
This seems to want it both ways then. So, it says in
section 1 that the person who receives this photograph
can't tell how you marked the ballot, that's what it
says, excuse me, section 2 says, you are not able to
ascertain how the voter marked the ballot. So, I'm
confused, it says the voter can exhibit the voter's
ballot, so you can't tell how it is marked, now you
are saying in section 3, "Oh, well yes you can." Can
you explain that?
MR. STAR explained as follows:
AS 15.15.280 in section 2 establishes a general
prohibition saying that in most cases one cannot
display their marked ballot by photo or whatever
reason. Section 3 establishes a narrow exception to
that general prohibition saying that if you are
requesting assistance under AS 15.15.240 in order to
vote, or if you are not posting a photo, video or
other image of your marked ballot in the polling place
within 200 feet then you are okay, it is legal for you
to post that photo, video or other image.
SENATOR GIESSEL replied that Mr. Star's explanation made no
logical sense to her.
CHAIR MEYER commented as follows:
If I'm understanding this correctly, and I may not be
either, is that once I get outside of the 200 feet of
the polling place then I can post that picture in how
I voted, how I marked the ballot, is that correct?
MR. STAR answered correct. He specified that section 1 was meant
to prohibit someone with malicious intent, taking a picture of
their ballot in the privacy of the voting booth, coming outside
waiving their photo around to show what he or she voted for. He
emphasized that the intent of the bill was to prohibit the
behavior he previously described. He specified that the intent
of HB 7 was to allow an individual to post a picture of their
ballot on social media once they leave the polling place.
4:31:02 PM
CHAIR MEYER asked if it is currently illegal for him to post a
photo of how he voted within 200 feet of the high school where
he voted.
REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS explained as follows:
I believe the origin of the 200-feet language relates
to election law that presently exists and you can't
have signs, etc. The thought is that if you have this
image on your phone and you are showing it to other
people, that kind of falls in the same class of
behavior, but to answer your question, if you are
posting that photo on your phone or showing to other
people, that is prohibited until you are 200 feet from
the doors of your high school.
CHAIR MEYER inquired when a person would know when they are able
to post a picture.
REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS replied as follows:
I think the same way that people need to if they are
wearing the button of a candidate they are supporting,
I think what happens in a lot of Alaskan communities
in my experience is they've got poll workers that
remind people when they see them, they are not
necessarily on specific perimeter patrol exactly 200
feet from the door of the polling place, but if they
get close and a polling person is around they would
say as a general reminder that an individual has to
take their political display down because it is the
law. I would be surprised if it is enforced in
overwhelming precision but probably the spirit of the
law was what really matters.
SENATOR EGAN disclosed that he has received photos from "friends
and enemies" showing how they voted. He pointed out that the
bill just tries, "To make it a little more legal if they follow
the law."
4:33:29 PM
CHAIR MEYER argued that poll workers currently can say, "Don't
do that because it is illegal."
SENATOR EGAN noted that poll workers have yet to tell someone
not to take a photo. He pointed out that no one knows what a
person is doing in a voting booth once the curtain is drawn.
CHAIR MEYER noted that the bill says, "within 200 feet."
SENATOR EGAN explained that a person can send their photo when
they are 200 feet away from the polling station.
CHAIR MEYER pointed out that a person taking a selfie when they
enter a polling station is illegal.
SENATOR EGAN agreed and asked Representative Kreiss-Tomkins to
confirm that
REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS answered correct.
CHAIR MEYER noted that there was a question brought up about
whether to allow selfie photos would be based on freedom of
speech.
REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS commented as follows:
My recollection is that a similar law was challenged
in New Hampshire and was struck down as
unconstitutional on First Amendment grounds.
SENATOR COGHILL remarked as follows:
I think with our right to privacy in Alaska and your
ability to be private within the voting booth it would
be quite a stretch to be able to prohibit it in the
polling booth, but what you could do is keep people
from playing a video or something as soon as they got
out of it. I think it's the impact of influencing
other people over against your private life. I think
they probably would never stop it if it was happing in
the polling booth, but if you came out and started
running a video of you doing it, you would probably be
asked to leave and shut it off. Even bumper stickers,
people drive up to a polling booth with bumper
stickers and they will genteelly ask you to cover it
up or take it off. I think that is the issue here and
it looks like an artful way of doing it and yes, I
think it's one of those things where you are trying to
guard people's privileges of expressing themselves
while protecting those from being unduly overly
influenced. It's just an artful way of dealing with
the technology that we have to deal with in our world.
The 200-foot limit probably is going to be a problem
because it used to be just sign-waving, that was the
big deal, but they could get themselves a little blue
tooth speak and put it out there, so I think 200 feet
is probable okay.
4:36:46 PM
SENATOR GIESSEL commented as follows:
I just have a comment in response to what Senator
Coghill has just said about freedom of expression, and
the sponsor and his staff saying you can't come out of
the voter's booth and try to influence other people.
Now, as I look at this section you've given us of HB 7
testimonies, of course most of the testimony comes
from Juneau, which is interesting, there's one here
from Anchorage and this looks like a young woman who
is 18. I appreciate the power of social media over
young people, that to me speaks to influence and undue
influence, in my opinion. We know that social media
has caused a lot of behavior that we in this body,
certainly, and society would not condone. I do believe
that it is a very powerful media that drives people to
do things that they don't think about. I don't share
Senator Coghill's feeling that this is harmlessly
constitutional.
SENATOR WILSON asked why consideration was not given to include
absentee or mail-in ballots.
4:38:50 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS explained as follows:
My understanding is that presently it is not illegal
or criminal if you have an absentee ballot for that
ballot to be displayed to another person. Presently,
ballot parties or just for non-Anchorage elections, if
a husband and wife both get their absentee ballots
before going off on a trip that is going to prompt to
be gone on election day, it's not illegal for them to
fill it out at the same time and if they want to show
the other who they are voting for, they are able to do
so and it's not technically against the law. We're
just not going there and changing that law one way or
the other given that all of that is presently legal. I
haven't been made aware of any problems with the
status quo.
SENATOR WILSON asked if photos during early voting was included
in the legislation.
REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS replied as follows:
My understanding is the real demarcation line is
whether or not you are at a polling place and since
early voting happens at a polling location, a ballot
selfie or taking an image and sharing it with other
people is technically illegal or criminal. So, even
though it is not election day because you are at a
polling place, that's the criteria that is really at
play.
4:40:57 PM
CHAIR MEYER opened public testimony.
4:41:08 PM
ANDERS MARIUS, representing self, Sitka, Alaska, testified in
support of HB 7. He said being allowed to take a picture of your
ballot and posting it is a personal choice and a personal
freedom that would be granted by HB 7.
4:42:29 PM
CHAIR MEYER closed public testimony.
He asked the Alaska Division of Elections if taking photos in
voting booths was an issue.
4:43:01 PM
BRIAN JACKSON, Program Manager, Alaska Division of Elections,
Juneau, Alaska, answered as follows:
I don't know that I would necessarily call it an
issue, but the Division of Elections does receive
phone calls in the election cycle asking about the
legality of this. Obviously as Senator Egan spoke
people are doing this, taking selfies of themselves
and sharing it with others.
CHAIR MEYER asked if poll workers currently can tell someone not
to take a photo.
MR. JACKSON replied that poll workers could address the issue if
someone was identified.
CHAIR MEYER asked if the bill would make it legal for voters to
take a photo of their ballot in the ballot booth.
MR. JACKSON answered that taking a photo would be legal under
the proposed legislation, but if someone were to come out of the
ballot booth and display their ballots to anybody within the 200
foot range then the poll worker would identify that and they
would have to "spoil the ballot," then the voter could have a
second attempt at voting without displaying their ballot.
CHAIR MEYER replied as follows:
When you say, "spoil the ballot," what if they are
just taking a picture of it, doing a selfie?
MR. JACKSON answered that if the person voting does not display
their ballot within the 200-foot range, then taking a ballot
selfie would be allowed under the proposed legislation.
CHAIR MEYER commented as follows:
How would you know that? Sometimes when you are
waiting in line you've got your iPhone out and you are
looking at it, that person could be displaying their
ballot to somebody in the line, how would you know?
MR. JACKSON answered as follows:
The poll worker would be able to identify that at the
time, more than likely. If they recognized it as
displaying their ballot to others in the polling
location, then they work with them to "spoil" their
ballot.
4:46:05 PM
CHAIR MEYER asked if the Division of Elections has a position on
the bill.
MR. JACKSON answered that the Division of Elections does not
oppose HB 7.
4:46:58 PM
CHAIR MEYER held HB 7 in committee.
He remarked that the bill is confusing as written as to what a
person can or cannot do and the legislation would be addressed
at the next committee meeting.
SENATOR WILSON asked if the Division of Elections has considered
allowing voters to use "sample ballots" in the interim to take
photos with should the legislation not pass.
MR. JACKSON answered that the Division of Elections could
discuss Senator Wilson's proposal. He noted that the "sample
ballot" idea might create more work for poll workers and pointed
out that some polling stations are busy.
SENATOR WILSON opined that taking pictures of your sample ballot
would be perfectly legal.
MR. JACKSON replied that a person could take a photo of a sample
ballot unless the polling station ran out of ballots. He noted
that there is a provision for polling stations to utilize sample
ballots as official election ballots should the polling station
run out of ballots.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| HCR 19 Sponsor Statement.pdf |
SSTA 4/17/2018 3:30:00 PM |
HCR 19 |
| HCR 19 Version R A.PDF |
SSTA 4/17/2018 3:30:00 PM |
HCR 19 |
| HCR 19 Previous Letters of Support.pdf |
SSTA 4/17/2018 3:30:00 PM |
HCR 19 |
| ANLPAC2018 Report to the Governor and Legislature.pdf |
SSTA 4/17/2018 3:30:00 PM |
HCR 19 |
| HCR 19 Fiscal Note.pdf |
SSTA 4/17/2018 3:30:00 PM |
HCR 19 |
| HB 97 Sponsor Statement ver D 3.12.18.pdf |
SSTA 4/17/2018 3:30:00 PM |
HB 97 |
| HB 97 Version D.PDF |
SSTA 4/17/2018 3:30:00 PM |
HB 97 |
| HB 97 Sectional Analysis ver D 4.10.18.pdf |
SSTA 4/17/2018 3:30:00 PM |
HB 97 |
| HB 97 Support Indirect Expenditure Report 2.22.17.pdf |
SSTA 4/17/2018 3:30:00 PM |
HB 97 |
| HB 97 Fiscal Notes.pdf |
SSTA 4/17/2018 3:30:00 PM |
HB 97 |
| HB 7 Sponsor Statement.pdf |
SSTA 4/10/2018 3:30:00 PM SSTA 4/17/2018 3:30:00 PM |
HB 7 |
| HB 7 Version J.PDF |
SSTA 4/10/2018 3:30:00 PM SSTA 4/17/2018 3:30:00 PM |
HB 7 |
| HB 7 Summary of Changes.pdf |
SSTA 4/10/2018 3:30:00 PM SSTA 4/17/2018 3:30:00 PM |
HB 7 |
| HB 7 Sectional Analysis ver J.pdf |
SSTA 4/10/2018 3:30:00 PM SSTA 4/17/2018 3:30:00 PM |
HB 7 |
| HB 7 Supporting Document-Article Columbia University.pdf |
SSTA 4/10/2018 3:30:00 PM SSTA 4/17/2018 3:30:00 PM |
HB 7 |
| HB 7 Supporting Document-Article Denver Post.pdf |
SSTA 4/10/2018 3:30:00 PM SSTA 4/17/2018 3:30:00 PM |
HB 7 |
| HB 7 Support Material Testimonies.pdf |
SSTA 4/10/2018 3:30:00 PM SSTA 4/17/2018 3:30:00 PM |
HB 7 |
| HB 7 Supporting Document-Article Washington Post.pdf |
SSTA 4/10/2018 3:30:00 PM SSTA 4/17/2018 3:30:00 PM |
HB 7 |
| HB 7 Fiscal Note.pdf |
SSTA 4/10/2018 3:30:00 PM SSTA 4/17/2018 3:30:00 PM |
HB 7 |
| HB 7 Letter of Support Cora Dow.pdf |
SSTA 4/17/2018 3:30:00 PM |
HB 7 |
| HB 235 Sponsor Statement.pdf |
SSTA 4/10/2018 3:30:00 PM SSTA 4/17/2018 3:30:00 PM |
HB 235 |
| HB 235 Summary of Changes.pdf |
SSTA 4/10/2018 3:30:00 PM SSTA 4/17/2018 3:30:00 PM |
HB 235 |
| HB 235 Supporting Document - NCSL Awards for Law Enforcement or First Responders.pdf |
SSTA 4/10/2018 3:30:00 PM SSTA 4/17/2018 3:30:00 PM |
HB 235 |
| HB 235 Officer Down Memorial Pages.pdf |
SSTA 4/10/2018 3:30:00 PM SSTA 4/17/2018 3:30:00 PM |
HB 235 |
| HB 235 Letters of Support.pdf |
SSTA 4/10/2018 3:30:00 PM SSTA 4/17/2018 3:30:00 PM |
HB 235 |
| HB 235 Venn Diagram AK Medal for Heroism North Star Medal.pdf |
SSTA 4/10/2018 3:30:00 PM SSTA 4/17/2018 3:30:00 PM |
HB 235 |
| HB 235 Fiscal Note.pdf |
SSTA 4/10/2018 3:30:00 PM SSTA 4/17/2018 3:30:00 PM |
HB 235 |
| HB 235 Letter of Support Bob Lynn.pdf |
SSTA 4/17/2018 3:30:00 PM |
HB 235 |