Legislature(2009 - 2010)
04/02/2009 03:06 PM House FIN
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB199 | |
| HB161 | |
| HB3 | |
| HB98 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE BILL NO. 3
"An Act relating to issuance of identification cards
and to issuance of driver's licenses; and providing for
an effective date."
4:06:22 PM
Representative Hawker MOVED to ADOPT CSHB 3 (FIN), version
26-LS0008\P, Luckhaupt, 3/30/09 (copy on file), as a working
document.
Co-Chair Stoltze OBJECTED for DISCUSSION.
DIRK MOFFET, STAFF, REPRESENTATIVE BOB LYNN, SPONSOR,
introduced the title change of the proposed CS because of
added language.
JERRY LUCKHAUPT, LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, DIVISION OF LEGAL
SERVICES, explained that the change was made because of
language dealing with regulation authority in response to
questions that had been raised.
4:07:57 PM
Mr. Moffet turned to the next change, regarding a
typographical error on page 1, line 9 and page 2, line 1.
Mr. Luckhaupt added that the change was made in response to
previous legislation by Representative Crawford.
Mr. Moffet explained the third change extending the
expiration date of cards issued to persons 60 years and
older on page 2, line 1. Language in version A was changed
since the identification cards are free to senior citizens
and their physical appearance does not change as fast as
that appearance of younger citizens. The sponsor believed
that extending the expiration date on the cards would be
good business; senior citizens would visit the Division of
Motor Vehicles (DMV) less often. He stressed that fewer DMV
customers would mean less staff resource. Amendment 3 was
offered to make the cards never expire for those over 60
years of age. However, federal regulation (the Real ID Act
of 2005) stipulated that eight years was the longest
expiration date allowed. He pointed out that the change
doubled the expiration date from five years to ten years and
had the added benefit of being non-compliant with the Real
ID Act.
Mr. Moffet moved to the fourth change regarding anti-Real ID
language related to identification cards to conform with AS
44.99.040, Limitations on Certain State Expenditures. He
read the language added in version P to page 2, lines 27-29,
stating that the Commissioner of Administration may not
adopt regulations related to identification cards solely to
bring the state into compliance with the requirements of the
federal Real ID Act of 2005.
Mr. Moffet detailed that the fifth change also added anti-
Real ID language related to driver licenses. Language was
added on pages 2 and 3, lines 30-31 stating that for section
four, AS 28.05.011 is omitted by adding a new section to
read that the Commissioner of Administration may not adopt
regulations related to driver licenses solely to bring the
state into compliance with the Real ID Act.
4:12:04 PM
Mr. Luckhaupt explained that the language changes were
requested to make sure the Department of Administration
(DOA) does not try to bring the state into compliance with
the Real ID Act through regulation. He noted that the added
language had necessitated the title change.
Mr. Moffet concluded with the sixth change, anti-Real ID
disclaimer language on page 5, lines 15-17. Language was
added to emphasize non-cooperation with the Real ID Act. He
spoke of two amendments adding the anti-Real ID language to
HB 3; neither accomplished the desired goal and language was
drafted adding language congruent with Real ID statute yet
tailored to deal with the subject of identification cards
and driver licenses. The anti-Real ID disclaimer language
was also added to clarify that although the state has
adopted legal presence law, the bill was deliberately
drafted to be non-compliant with the Real ID Act. The
sponsors believed that Alaska should determine for itself
the perimeters of good business practice.
4:14:48 PM
Representative Foster did not think the issue was a problem
for his constituents and wondered why the issue was being
brought up. Mr. Moffet replied that currently in regulation
the primary document must be brought to DMV when getting a
license for the first time. The requirement will be put into
statute by the legislation.
Representative Foster questioned the need for putting the
requirement in statute. Mr. Moffet replied that the sponsors
believe the policy is good. He emphasized that the bill also
allows the DMV to be flexible about the expiration date. He
acknowledged that the provision would not affect rural
communities.
Representative Foster reiterated his questions. Mr. Moffet
explained the desire to keep people who are in Alaska for a
limited time period from allowing their legal presence to
expire and still be able to keep an Alaska driver's license.
4:17:12 PM
Co-Chair Stoltze pointed out that the changes wanted by
committee members had been covered. He WITHDREW his
OBJECTION. There being no further OJBECTION, the CS was
adopted.
Representative Kelly commented that his questions had been
answered. He agreed that people who were in Alaska illegally
should not be allowed to drive. He spoke in support of the
legislation.
Representative Joule asked whether the passage of the bill
would give law enforcement an excuse to stop people to check
their identifications. Mr. Luckhaupt replied that the
measure would not allow law enforcement to pull anyone over
without justification. In Alaska, there must be probable
cause of a violation of law in order to pull someone over.
4:19:59 PM
Mr. Luckhaupt added that the issue had come up in other
states as well when states have wanted to set up check-
points. He stated that the only way a state can set up a
check point is to check U.S. citizenship where the state had
entered into an agreement with the Immigration and
Naturalization Service (INS) or Customs and Border Patrol.
Florida has entered into the agreement with some law
enforcement, but most states have not.
Co-Chair Stoltze assumed the present administration would
not embrace the issue.
4:21:30 PM
Representative Crawford asked a question regarding the
statement that the Commissioner of DOA being unable to adopt
regulation related to identification cards in order to bring
the state into compliance with the Real ID Act. Mr.
Luckhaupt replied that the word "solely" was added so that
regulation could be added for other valid reasons.
Mr. Luckhaupt added regarding a previous question that
people can be stopped in Alaska for probable cause or
reasonable suspicion of imminent physical danger to the
public. He provided an example.
Co-Chair Stoltze described experience with local police
setting up DUI (drinking under the influence) road blocks
and questioned the legality of the practice. Mr. Luckhaupt
replied that in Alaska, the question is open as to whether
sobriety checkpoints are legal. He added that the U.S.
Supreme Court has said that the checkpoints are legal for
purposes of the U.S. Constitution; that has not been decided
in Alaska.
4:24:44 PM AT EASE
4:24:52 PM RECONVENED
Representative Crawford pointed out that the provision's
wording actually could allow regulation adopting the Real ID
Act and questioned the use of the word "solely." Mr.
Luckhaupt explained that the only purpose of the provision
was regulation authority. He added that another previously
passed provision prevents any state agency from adopting
regulations to implement the Real ID Act; this will be the
fourth place in statute stating that Alaska would not comply
with the Real ID Act.
Representative Crawford believed that the offending word was
"solely." He read the passage without the word: "If the
Commissioner of Administration may not adopt a regulation
related to identification cards to bring the state into
compliance." He thought the passage would make it clear that
regulation could not comply with the act. Mr. Luckhaupt
responded that the word "solely" would mean that regulation
can be adopted for another valid reason.
Representative Crawford proposed saying "with the intent to
bring the state into compliance" instead of "solely." He
thought the intent would be clear. He asked whether the
presence of the word "solely" would say that it is fine to
adopt the Real ID Act as long as there is another purpose.
4:27:26 PM
Mr. Luckhaupt replied that the word "solely" allows other
reasons.
Representative Crawford asked if the word "solely" could
allow the Real ID Act to be adopted. Mr. Luckhaupt answered
that the word "solely" allows the Commissioner of
Administration to adopt any regulation relating to
identification cards providing it is not solely adopted in
order to implement the Real ID Act. He interpreted this to
mean that if there is any other valid reason for adopting
the regulation, the fact that it brings the state into
compliance with the Real ID Act does not matter. He stated
that he had drafted the language as he was instructed, but
added that the way it is drafted leads to the
interpretation. As long as there is any other valid reason,
bringing the state into compliance is okay with the word
"solely" present, even if the commissioner wants to bring
the state into compliance with the Real ID Act.
4:28:48 PM
Co-Chair Stoltze noted that the same issue had been
contentious in a previous meeting.
Representative Gara pointed out that the word "solely" was
proposed because no one has come up with acceptable language
for the provision; what is clear is that the state does not
want DMV to implement the Real ID Act. He thought the
response to Representative Crawford's question was yes. He
presented a hypothetical: A commissioner has the secret
intent to implement the Real ID Act, but says the purpose is
to save money. He asked whether the hypothetical would be
possible even though it violates the intention of the
legislation.
Mr. Moffet clarified that he word "solely" was used because
the Real ID Act would not allow DMV staff to be trained
regarding fraudulent document detection, for example. He
stated that many current good business practices would be
discarded if the committee wanted a strict prohibition on
anything in the Real ID Act. He described the Real ID Act as
a "laundry list" of all the good ideas that the states came
up with; he opined that some of the ideas are good and some
bad. For example, the sponsor thought that putting the legal
presence expiration date directly on someone's card was not
a good business practice, even though the Real ID Act would
allow it. All Alaskan cards would look the same except for
the expiration date; only looking very closely at the
expiration date would indicate the legal status of the
holder.
Mr. Moffet stated that the sponsor wanted the word "solely"
left in the provision in order to conform to what is already
in statute and not re-write the anti-Real ID Act legislation
already passed.
Representative Gara wanted his question answered. Mr.
Luckhaupt replied that the answer would be yes.
Representative Gara described the conundrum: the legislature
does not want DMV to implement the Real ID Act, but the
language makes it possible for a DMV person to implement it.
He asked whether the legislative intent in the CS was good
enough to protect the state from a commissioner who wanted
to implement the Real ID Act. Mr. Moffet replied that the
legislature oversees the DMV and can change anything they do
not want through statute; the division cannot implement the
Real ID Act.
4:34:15 PM
Mr. Luckhaupt noted that the provision passed last year said
the division should not be implementing the act. He
acknowledged that the hypothetical of the director wanting
to implement the act was possible.
Representative Gara stated for the record that the intention
is to prevent DMV from implementing the Real ID Act and that
no language has been found to make that clearer. He thought
Representative Crawford's question was still a concern but
he could not find better language.
Representative Foster queried possible penalties for not
complying with the federal requirements.
WHITNEY BREWSTER, DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF MOTOR VEHICLES,
DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATION (via teleconference), testified
that there are some penalties for not complying with the
Real ID Act by the end of 2009. She detailed that residents
of states that do not issue Real ID Act compliant
identification cards or driver licenses will not be able to
access federal facilities and will not be able to board
airplanes without secondary screening.
4:36:48 PM
Co-Chair Hawker spoke to difficulties in Alaska and the
necessity of identification. He pointed to state statute and
regulations connected with obtaining identification cards.
He queried the additional difficulties that might be
incurred for renewing identification cards if the
legislation passed.
REPRESENTATIVE BOB LYNN, SPONSOR, explained that the
provision would not change things for Alaskans but for
people coming from out-of-state and for people who are
temporarily on a visa or work permit.
Co-Chair Hawker agreed that the additional burden is not on
state residents but on other classes of individuals.
4:40:31 PM
Representative Foster described difficulties experienced by
people in the Bush who have to travel long distances to get
identification cards.
Co-Chair Hawker asked Mr. Moffet to respond to his question.
Mr. Moffet described changes the bill would put in place.
Alaskans who renew driver licenses will not have to show
primary documents. Alaskans who have allowed their driver's
license to expire will be allowed 90 extra days to renew
without showing primary documents; this provision was put in
for people in rural areas. The 90-day window was chosen
because statute stipulates that people new to Alaska have 90
days to change their license to an Alaska state drivers
license.
4:43:09 PM
Co-Chair Hawker queried additional difficulties that would
be caused by the legislation. Ms. Brewster did not think the
provision would increase the burden on people who currently
hold an Alaska driver's license. She addressed concerns
about people from rural areas. She recognized the bigger
challenges to those who do not have direct access to a DMV
office, but pointed out that people can renew through the
mail.
Ms. Brewster referred to future legislation that would allow
for renewing online. She explained that the issue is the new
digital license. The last of the old Polaroid licenses will
expire this year, requiring people to come to an office in
person to capture a digital likeness.
4:45:18 PM
Representative Foster commented on the federal government
directing state decisions.
Co-Chair Hawker MOVED to report CSHS 3 (FIN) as amended from
Committee with individual recommendations and the
accompanying fiscal note.
Representative Gara OBJECTED for discussion. He commented
that the rules in place already keep illegal immigrants from
getting a driver's license and the proposed law would not
change the rules aside from extending renewal time for
senior citizens. He noted that legislation on divisive
issues increases problems and does not change anything.
Representative Gara WITHDREW his OBJECTION.
Representative Foster commented on the situation in rural
Alaska where everyone knows each other.
There being NO further OBJECTION, it was so ordered.
CSHS 3 (FIN) was REPORTED out of Committee with a "do pass"
recommendation and with a previously published fiscal note:
FN1 (ADM).
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|