SENATE HEALTH, EDUCATION & SOCIAL SERVICES COMMITTEE February 24, 1993 1:30 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT Senator Steve Rieger, Chairman Senator Bert Sharp, Vice Chairman Senator Mike Miller Senator Johnny Ellis Senator Jim Duncan MEMBERS ABSENT Senator Loren Leman Senator Judy Salo COMMITTEE CALENDAR SENATE BILL NO. 51 "An Act providing for establishment of work camps for juveniles adjudicated delinquent, and extending to all cities and to nonprofit corporations authority to maintain facilities for juveniles." SENATE BILL NO. 61 "An Act implementing certain recommendations of Alaska 2000 to improve the state's education system; and providing for an effective date." PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION SB 51 - See HESS minutes dated 2/24/93. SB 61 - See HESS minutes dated 2/8/93, 2/10/93, and 2/17/93. WITNESS REGISTER Sherrie Goll Alaska Women's Lobby P.O. Box 22156 Juneau, Alaska 99801 POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 51. Caren Robinson League of Women Voters Southeast Alaska Guidance Association Program P.O. Box 33702 Juneau, Alaska 99801 POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 51. Randall Hines, Youth Correction Specialist Department of Health and Social Services P.O. Box 110630 Juneau, Alaska 99801 POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 51. Claudia Douglas NEA/AK 114 Second Street Juneau, Alaska 99801 POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 61. Carl Rose, Executive Director Association of Alaska School Boards 316 West 11th Street Juneau, Alaska 99801 POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 61. Jerry Covey, Commissioner Department of Education 801 W. 10th St. Suite 200 Juneau, Alaska 99801-1984 POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 61. ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 93-15, SIDE A Number 001 CHAIRMAN RIEGER called the Senate Health, Education, and Social Services Committee (HESS) to order at 1:30 p.m. and announced SB 51 WORK CAMPS FOR JUVENILE OFFENDERS to be up for consideration. SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS, sponsor, said a work camp is an alternative for juveniles in trouble, rather than putting them in McClaughlin. They would have counseling, educational programs, and work details stressing the work ethic. Number 61 SHERRIE GOLL, Alaska Women's Lobby, said last year she testified basically in opposition to the bill because of its broadness and vagueness. She didn't know how "boot camps" would interface with what we currently have for residential child care. She asked if children would be moved from residential child care into a labor situation. She asked where the funding would come from and which facilities would have to close in order to establish the new program. CAREN ROBINSON, League of Women Voters, and President, Southeast Alaska Guidance Association Program (SAGA), commended the sponsor for looking for alternatives, but she has concern with a program that sounds like it is military and work camp oriented. MS. ROBINSON was concerned with the $9,000 fiscal note. She had a handout that explained SAGA which has a comprehensive program for youths that combines the values, goals, and objectives of academic and outdoor education, skills training, and work experience. The youths involved in the program have to be either in foster care, an alcohol treatment program, a youth facility, have learning disabilities, or be low income. She said they received a federal grant of $745,000 and now have a lodge at Amalga Harbor with 30 kids in the program. She was concerned what the model would be with only $9,000, if we're talking about rehabilitation and education, etc. She said $9,000 could put another 10 kids into the SAGA program. Number 177 RANDALL HINES, Youth Correction Specialist, Department of Health and Social Services, was there to answer questions. SENATOR SALO asked him to explain the fiscal note which seemed totally unrealistic. MR. HINES said they view this as enabling legislation that would allow them to go forth and develop a model program. SENATOR SALO said it seemed the title of the bill did not correctly explain that. Number 212 SENATOR PHILLIPS mentioned that the Federal Control Act of 1990 authorizes $220 million for programs with "correctional options." SENATOR ELLIS asked what the educational component of the program would cost? MR. HINES said that currently programs operated by the Department of Health and Social Services have an educational component in them. They would develop their model along the same lines. The educational opportunities in this program would be no different than what they have now in existing facilities. SENATOR ELLIS commented that he had toured the school at McLaughlin Youth Center and it was very inadequate, probably violated every fire code there was. SENATOR ELLIS also asked how this related to Commissioner Rupp's Project Hope. He wanted to be realistic about the costs. MR. HINES said the whole issue of funding the operation of one of these camps is not addressed in the fiscal note, because they don't have a model for it yet. He said these were youth facilities under the Department of Health and Social Services, not the Department of Corrections. There is an amendment for Section 4 that would allow a city or non profit corporation to possibly run a detention facility and he wanted the intent clarified. He recommended eliminating the juvenile detention facility language. Number 310 SENATOR LEMAN said he liked the idea of privatization. He didn't think leaving the language in there would do any particular disservice. SENATOR ELLIS was bothered by the broad authority in the bill. Before he would commit money to a program like that he would have to know the details about it. He said the Department has full authority to apply for federal funds to expand the youthful offender programs and asked why they hadn't taken the initiative in those areas. MR. HINES said there had been a number of discretionary grant programs from the Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention for which they have applied and been turned down. SENATOR ELLIS pointed out that they didn't have a very good track record in attracting the federal funds they are depending on for funding this initiative. Number 357 SENATOR RIEGER asked if their commitment to the work camp would be following orders of the court or would HESS be making those decisions. MR. HINES explained under current regulations, once a child has been adjudicated to the custody of the department, it's their decision which facility would be best for the them. Their primary concern is what's in the best interests of the child. One of the fiscal restraints they've had is in placing kids outside the state where the program is best for them. Number 391 SENATOR PHILLIPS asked the committee to look at page 5, Section 7 for what a "work camp" means. SENATOR SALO questioned the validity of the fiscal note. SENATOR PHILLIPS said when the legislature authorizes them to set up the program, they will tell them how much money they can spend. SENATOR DUNCAN pointed out that point holds true only if the facility is operated by the state. If it's operated by a city or nonprofit, it doesn't have to come to the legislature for approval. SENATOR ELLIS says it boggles him that they are thinking of granting so much authority to a department they have had so many problems with over the years in terms of regulations. Number 460 SENATOR DUNCAN said they should look at the model before they authorize the establishment of it. Secondly, if they are having experts from "outside" visit, they should be available to talk before the committee. SENATOR RIEGER said they would hold the bill for further expert testimony. Number 488 SENATOR RIEGER announced SB 61 IMPLEMENT ALASKA 2000 RECOMMENDATIONS to be up for consideration. CLAUDIA DOUGLAS, NEA-AK complimented the efforts of Senator Rieger and Senator Sharp for looking at some of their concerns in terms of the evaluation process. SENATOR DUNCAN asked her if she was proposing that a school district have the option of adopting or not adopting a probationary program. She said that was correct. SENATOR DUNCAN asked if they do adopt it, did it then mean they have to follow the guidelines that are on page 2 under 1, 2, and 3? She said that was correct. SENATOR DUNCAN then asked if they adopt that program, after the second year, if the evaluations aren't acceptable, then they can extend a teacher to a third year without tenure. SENATOR RIEGER said that was correct. SENATOR DUNCAN asked what was the basis for not granting tenure? He also questioned "the district may terminate the program at any time" and what happens to a teacher who is in the middle of the process when the program is terminated. SENATOR RIEGER referred him to the last three lines of the first page which reads, "On termination of a program, the provisions of (a) of this section apply to the probationary teachers, except that a teacher in a third year of probation does not acquire tenure rights unless reemployed for the school year immediately following the three full continuous school years." SENATOR DUNCAN asked if he was correct in understanding that if the program is terminated and an individual is in the second year, he falls under the present tenure law and if the individual is in the third year, they could just not rehire them. SENATOR RIEGER said he thought that was correct. MS. DOUGLAS agreed. She said her other concern was with section (c) which says, "A school district that has a probationary teacher evaluation program may extend..." She wanted "for cause" to be inserted which would allow her to support the amendment in a stronger way. SENATOR DUNCAN said "for cause" should also be inserted on the fourth line. MS. DOUGLAS agreed. Number 564 SENATOR MILLER moved to amend amendment #5. SENATOR ELLIS objected for a point of information. SENATOR DUNCAN explained that amendment #5 basically deleted the material in the bill on the tenure provisions and sets up an evaluation procedure. This amendment does not evaluate administrators. His amendment does not have the third year provision. TAPE 93-15, SIDE B Number 577 SENATOR SALO objected and there was discussion on the phrases "for cause" and "for just cause." SENATOR DUNCAN said there has to be a reason the school district won't grant tenure. SENATOR RIEGER said he was leery of passing legislation that invites more litigation or that has language in it that requires an administrative proceeding to interpret. SENATOR SHARP said it was his intent if tenure wasn't granted, the only reason would be that there are still negative points that would not permit them to employ the teacher at the time. SENATOR SALO said according to school district people she has talked to, tenure is not a problem, at all. The part that's legitimate about this approach is the small number of people who need to be evaluated longer or more thoroughly. She suggested dealing with that small number rather than dealing with everyone. She had a problem with the words "not ready." SENATOR DUNCAN said the only reason he could see for not granting tenure would be because of well documented evaluations where performance is not acceptable or not up to standard. Number 498 SENATOR SALO asked if in Section 10, line 5 the evaluation referred to third year or first, second, and third. SENATOR RIEGER said he thought it covered first, second, and third. Number 477 CARL ROSE, Executive Director, Association of Alaska School Boards, said they desire to extend the probationary period up to four years. If you have questionable teachers who show promise, he thought another year would be very helpful and would be a positive approach. SENATOR DUNCAN suggested adding to the evaluation language sections (e) and (f), the self improvement plan in the other amendment, and training for evaluators. MR. ROSE said in their proposal they see some responsibility associated with the request for an extension. He agreed there should be something prescribed in terms of what you're going to provide for this additional year. Number 395 SENATOR SALO asked they included the option to terminate the program. SENATOR RIEGER said it seemed to make sense from what people were saying about leaving room for the program to improve. This is one approach. Number 346 SENATOR DUNCAN withdrew amendment #5. SENATOR DUNCAN then offered amendment #6, although he wasn't the author. SENATOR DUNCAN on page 1, Sec. 10, line 3, moved to insert "based on the evaluation and self improvement program, the district has determined there is cause to not grant tenure to the teacher on the basis of the two years of employment...." after "subsection and if..." and delete the rest of the sentence. SENATOR RIEGER objected for the purpose of discussion. He said he was uneasy with the word "cause" because he didn't know what it meant. SENATOR DUNCAN said he had an opinion of what "just cause" means, not "cause." "Just cause" means the employer must show the employee committed an act which warrants his discharge. The employer must have a sound basis, a reasonable ground, for his decision. He does not have reasonable ground if the assumption on which he makes his decision is incorrect. SENATOR SALO agreed with SENATOR DUNCAN that "just cause" is a higher standard than "cause." Number 269 SENATOR LEMAN asked what was the process now if someone is not granted tenure after two years? Does cause have to be shown? He thought the school district would just not accept the contract. SENATOR SALO agreed and said if the bill was written to just apply to the small number of teachers the district wonders about, the affect would probably be to prompt resignation or to be used, in a limited way, as a shaping tool. Number 220 SENATOR SHARP suggested using Senator Duncan's amendment, but adding, "and if based on the existence of continuing unsatisfactory elements in the evaluation and self improvement programs is not ready to..." Number 190 MR. ROSE said the issue really comes down to how much of an opportunity do we allow our staff to be successful. Number 166 JERRY COVEY, Commissioner of Education, said the Board established the Tenure Review Committee, because it felt they wanted the public to have more involvement. The intent is to add credibility to the process, to bring the public into the process in a way that builds confidence. SENATOR DUNCAN said he is not anxious to make any change. SENATOR SALO said she would like to see a draft amendment that included Senator Duncan's additions and Senator Sharp's comments for the next meeting. TAPE 93-16, SIDE A Number 001 SENATOR RIEGER adjourned the meeting at 3:05 p.m.