MINUTES SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE April 24, 1997 8:41 A.M. TAPES SFC-97, # 127 Side 1 & 2 Technical error resulted in loss of a taped portion of the meeting. SFC-97, # 128, Side 1 (000-368) CALL TO ORDER Senator Bert Sharp, Cochair, Senate Finance Committee, convened the meeting at approximately 8:41 A.M. PRESENT In addition to COCHAIR SHARP, COCHAIR PEARCE, SENATORS PHILLIPS, PARNELL and ADAMS were present when the meeting was convened. SENATORS TORGERSON and DONLEY arrived as the meeting was in progress. Also Attending: REPRESENTATIVE ALAN AUSTERMAN, REPRESENTATIVE CON BUNDE; CATHERINE REARDON, Director, Division of Occupational Licensing, Department of Commerce and Economic Development; ANNETTE KREITZER, Aide to Senate Labor and Commerce Committee; DEAN PADDOCK, Bristol Bay Driftnetters Association; SUE JORGENSEN, 17th United States Coast Guard District; MARK JOHNSON, Chief, Community Health and Emergency Medical Services, Department of Health and Social Services; BETTY MARTIN, Comptroller, Treasury Division, Department of Revenue; BRETT HUBER, Legislative Staff to Senator Halford; MICHAEL MORGAN, Manager, Facilities Section, Department of Education (DOE); MICHAEL FORD, Attorney, Legislative Legal and Research Services; JOHN CYR, President, NEA-Alaska; DR. NANCY BUELL, Director, Teaching and Learning Support, DOE; TUCKERMAN BABCOCK, Legislative Aide to Senator Green; and aides to committee members. Also Attending via Teleconference: JOE MACINKO, Commercial Fisherman, Kodiak; JERRY DZUGAN, Alaska Marine Safety Education Association (AMSEA), Sitka; JIM HERBERT, Alaska Vocational Technical School, Seward. SUMMARY INFORMATION HB 133 ARCHITECTS, ENGINEERS & SURVEYORS Testimony was heard from CATHERINE REARDON and ANNETTE KREITZER. SENATOR PARNELL MOVED the bill from committee with individual recommendations. Without objection, CSHB 133(L&C) was REPORTED OUT with a new fiscal note from the Department of Commerce and Economic Development. SB 88 BOARD OF PUBLIC ACCOUNTANCY Testimony was heard from ANNETTE KREITZER. COCHAIR PEARCE MOVED the bill from committee with individual recommendations. Without objection, CSSB 88(L&C) was REPORTED OUT with a new zero fiscal note from the Department of Commerce and Economic Development. HB 13 MARINE SAFETY TRAINING & EDUCATION REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN testified on behalf of the bill. SENATOR ADAMS MOVED the bill with individual recommendations. COCHAIR SHARP objected for the purpose of examining the fiscal notes. SENATOR ADAMS withdrew his motion. Teleconference testimony in support of the bill was heard from JOE MACINKO, JERRY DZUGAN and JIM HERBERT. Also testifying in support were DEAN PADDOCK, SUE JORGENSEN and MARK JOHNSON. BETTY MARTIN answered questions. SENATOR PHILLIPS MOVED the bill from committee contingent on receipt of a new fiscal note. Without objection, CSHB 13(FIN)am was REPORTED OUT with a previous zero fiscal note from the Department of Labor and a forthcoming fiscal note from the Department of Community and Regional Affairs (150.0). SB 11 SCHOOL DEBT REIMBURSEMENT BRETT HUBER testified regarding the changes incorporated in the work draft CS, version F. Also testifying were MICHAEL MORGAN and MIKE FORD. SENATOR PHILLIPS MOVED Amendment #4. SENATOR ADAMS objected. SENATOR PHILLIPS withdrew his motion and MOVED to adopt the work draft CS. SENATOR DONLEY objected for the purpose of discussion, then withdrew his objection. Without further objection, CSSB 11(FIN) was ADOPTED. SENATOR PHILLIPS MOVED Amendment #4. Without objection, Amendment #4 was ADOPTED. SENATOR DONLEY MOVED Amendment #5. COCHAIR SHARP objected, then withdrew his objection. SENATOR PHILLIPS objected. Amendment #5 FAILED by a 2 to 4 vote. SENATOR ADAMS MOVED Amendment #6. SENATOR PHILLIPS objected. Amendment #6 FAILED by a 2 to 4 vote. Amendment #3 was not offered. CSSB 11(FIN) was HELD for further consideration. HB 145 TEACHING COMPETENCY EXAM FOR CERTIFICATION COCHAIR PEARCE MOVED to adopt the SCS work draft, version H. SENATOR ADAMS objected. There was discussion regarding the fiscal note. SENATOR ADAMS withdrew his objection and SCS CSHB 145(FIN) was ADOPTED. Testimony was heard from JOHN CYR, REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE and DR. NANCY BUELL. SENATOR DONLEY MOVED Amendment #1. Without objection, Amendment #1 was ADOPTED. COCHAIR PEARCE MOVED the bill from committee with individual recommendations. SENATOR ADAMS objected. By a vote of 5 to 2, SCSCSHB 145(FIN) was REPORTED OUT with a forthcoming fiscal note from the Department of Education (100.0). SB 141 CONCEALED HANDGUN PERMITS TUCKERMAN BABCOCK answered questions of the committee. SENATOR PARNELL MOVED to rescind previous action in Reporting Out CSSB 141(FIN). Without objection, the MOTION CARRIED and the bill was before the committee. SENATOR PARNELL MOVED Amendment #5. SENATOR ADAMS objected, then withdrew his objection. There being no further objection, Amendment #5 was ADOPTED. SENATOR DONLEY MOVED the bill from committee with individual recommendations. SENATOR ADAMS objected. By a 6 to 1 vote, CSSB 141(FIN) was REPORTED OUT with a previous fiscal note (5.0) and two previous zero fiscal notes from the Department of Public Safety. CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 133(L&C) "An Act relating to regulation of architects, engineers, and land surveyors; extending the termination date of the State Board of Registration for Architects, Engineers, and Land Surveyors; and providing for an effective date." COCHAIR SHARP explained that the bill extended the sunset date and changed the mix of members. SENATOR ADAMS noted a recommendation was made by the Legislative Budget and Audit Committee (LBA) to include financial statements of receipts and expenditures on all licensing boards. He inquired why they had not been incorporated into this bill. CATHERINE REARDON, Director, Division of Occupational Licensing, Department of Commerce and Economic Development, explained that the division began including all financial reports in their annual report this past fall, although there was no statutory obligation. In response to a question from COCHAIR PEARCE, MS. REARDON stated that it was not unusual to operate with an even number of members because of vacancies or conflicting out during a vote. COCHAIR PEARCE questioned the wisdom of even numbers on boards. SENATOR PARNELL inquired where the recommendation for ten members came from. MS. REARDON responded that land surveyors had requested an additional member for some time, it was supported by the Alaska Professional Design Council (APDC), and it was a decision made through the committee process. ANNETTE KREITZER, Aide to Senate Labor and Commerce Committee, informed the committee that the questions raised so far also came up in the previous committee. The bill was a result of cooperation between the department, the board and the APDC. The extra position would be paid for by the APDC fees, so there was no fiscal impact. The quorum issue had been discussed and it was decided they could still make their quorum. The justification for the additional member was the increasing number of applications for land surveyors. COCHAIR PEARCE noted another LBA Committee recommendation was that a mining engineer board member would not be justified because they made up less than 1 percent of the membership. SENATOR PARNELL MOVED the bill from committee with individual recommendations. Without objection, CSHB 133(L&C) was REPORTED OUT with a new fiscal note from the Department of Commerce and Economic Development (2.5). SENATE BILL NO. 88 "An Act relating to the Board of Public Accountancy; extending the termination date of the Board of Public Accountancy; and providing for an effective date." At the cochair's direction, ANNETTE KREITZER gave a brief overview of the bill. It followed recommendations of the audit regarding clarification of the licensing process (Sections 3 and 4), repeal of the temporary certification (Section 7), deletion of conflicting provisions regarding member terms and eligibility for reappointment. COCHAIR PEARCE MOVED the bill from committee with individual recommendations. Without objection, CSSB 88(L&C) was REPORTED OUT with a new zero fiscal note from the Department of Commerce and Economic Development. CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 13(FIN) am "An Act relating to marine safety training and education programs." REPRESENTATIVE ALAN AUSTERMAN stated the purpose of the bill was to continue the marine safety program in the state. He noted the state did not have a water safety program, although it was mandated by federal law, which resulted in a program called AMSEA (Alaska Marine Safety Education Association). Federal funding was drying up and the bill was an attempt to continue the program with a funding source through the Fishermen's Fund interest earnings. SENATOR ADAMS inquired how much money would be used. REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN replied that it would be between $150 thousand to $235 thousand, depending on the market. SENATOR ADAMS MOVED CSHB 13(FIN)am with individual recommendations. COCHAIR SHARP objected for the purpose of examining the fiscal notes. He inquired about the current cost of the program, noting there was no mention of the amount in the fiscal note. REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN responded that all interest earnings go into the general fund currently. He pointed out that the House Finance Committee zeroed the fiscal note and put the line item into the budget under the Department of Community and Regional Affairs. There was additional discussion and explanation about the fiscal note. SENATOR PHILLIPS expressed his preference to see $150 thousand in a fiscal note rather than the budget. COCHAIR SHARP directed a new fiscal note from the department be provided. SFC-97, # 127, Side 1 (275) - Technical error resulted in loss of the taped portion of the meeting at this point. The following portion of the meeting was taken from log notes. SENATOR ADAMS withdrew his motion to move CSHB 13(FIN)am. COCHAIR SHARP announced he would next take testimony from teleconference participants. JOE MACINKO, a commercial fisherman from Kodiak, testified via teleconference. He supported the bill and commented that safety training goes a long way. JERRY DZUGAN, of AMSEA, Sitka, testified via teleconference in support. He discussed the AMSEA program. JIM HERBERT, of Alaska Vocational Technical School, testified via teleconference from Seward. He spoke in support of the bill. The following testimony was heard from participants present in the committee room. DEAN PADDOCK, Bristol Bay Driftnetters Association, spoke in support. He referred to an article in the May 1997 issue of National Fisherman regarding the grassroots movement for marine safety awareness that has proven effective in saving lives. He spoke in support of AMSEA, stated the need for marine safety programs and urged passage of the bill. SUE JORGENSEN, 17th United States Coast Guard District, testified in support of the bill. Marine safety training was absolutely necessary not only for those in coastal areas statewide, but also for inland boaters on lakes and rivers. MARK JOHNSON, Chief, Community Health and Emergency Medical Services, Department of Health and Social Services, testified in support, noting that research has proven that lives have been saved through knowledge of marine safety. SENATOR PHILLIPS suggested moving the bill out of committee with a forthcoming fiscal note. In response to a question from COCHAIR SHARP, BETTY MARTIN, Comptroller, Treasury Division, Department of Revenue, responded that the dedicated fund was constitutional, the interest currently goes into the general fund, and she saw no problem with the bill as written. SENATOR PHILLIPS MOVED the bill from committee contingent on receipt of a new fiscal note. Without objection, CSHB 13(FIN)am was REPORTED OUT with a previous zero fiscal note from the Department of Labor and a forthcoming fiscal note from the Department of Community and Regional Affairs (150.0). SENATE BILL NO. 11 "An Act relating to state aid for school construction debt; and providing for an effective date." BRETT HUBER, Legislative Staff to Senator Halford, addressed the committee. He called attention to a CS work draft, version F, that was before the committee and noted it incorporated two previously adopted amendments. He discussed the amendments and pointed out an error in the CS draft wording on page 4, line 8. The word "payments" should be "projects." He brought up the retroactive clause in Section 6. SENATOR ADAMS inquired what the Anchorage school debt was on a yearly basis. MR. HUBER responded that the Anchorage bond issues went forward without Department of Education approval, but he thought the department may have an estimate of the amount. COCHAIR SHARP invited the bill drafter, Mike Ford, and Department of Education representative, Mike Morgan, to the committee table. SENATOR ADAMS had questions about the Anchorage and Mat-Su bond issues and the retroactivity clause that were addressed by MR. HUBER. MICHAEL MORGAN, Manager, Facilities Section, Department of Education (DOE), responded to SENATOR ADAMS' questions also. SFC-97, # 127 Side 1 (500) COCHAIR SHARP inquired if the retroactive clause in subsection (8) (page 4) opened a window for additional 70/30 funding. MICHAEL FORD, Attorney, Legislative Legal and Research Services, indicated that the issuance of bonds would have to have the DOE commissioner's approval by July 1 and be issued between July 1, 1995 and July 1, 1997. It was determined that it would be unlikely that a bond package could be put together, voted on, and approved by DOE before July 1, but it could open the door for Anchorage. End SFC-97 # 127, Side 1 (590) Begin SFC-97 # 127, Side 2 (000) SENATOR ADAMS inquired what the retroactive clause would cost the state. Mr. Huber responded that DOE had begun the analysis, but was still waiting for information from Anchorage. He estimated a potential impact would be $5.8 million for Anchorage and Mat-Su projects. There was discussion about a fiscal note dated 3/24/97 for $3.9 million which represented only Mat-Su reimbursement. MIKE FORD addressed technical changes to the bill that would make it consistent with other provisions, as referenced in his memorandum dated 4/10/97. SENATOR PHILLIPS MOVED the suggested changes as Amendment motion, then MOVED to adopt the CS work draft, version F, as CSSB 11(FIN). Without objection, it was ADOPTED. SENATOR PHILLIPS MOVED Amendment # 4. SENATOR DONLEY objected for the purpose of discussion, then withdrew his motion. Without further objection, Amendment #4 was adopted. SENATOR DONLEY MOVED Amendment #5, page 4, line 9, to delete "before the sale or issuance of debt for the project". COCHAIR SHARP objected, spoke to his objection, then withdrew it. SENATOR PHILLIPS objected. There was discussion about expanded eligibility of projects resulting from the amendment. A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION to adopt Amendment IN FAVOR: Adams, Donley OPPOSED: Parnell, Phillips, Sharp, Pearce Amendment #5 FAILED by a 2 to 4 vote. SENATOR ADAMS MOVED Amendment #6, page 4, lines 7-14, to delete all material. SENATOR PHILLIPS objected. A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION to adopt Amendment IN FAVOR: Adams, Sharp OPPOSED: Parnell, Phillips, Donley, Pearce Amendment #6 FAILED by a 2 to 4 vote. SENATOR PARNELL commented that the fiscal note was open- ended in that there was no cap on the amount that could be bonded for, so it was basically a blank check. He inquired how much more could be expected above the $3.9 million. MR. HUBER was unable to provide a number but spoke of the sponsor's intent. Voters would scrutinize which projects they would approve because they would be paying half the bill. SENATOR PARNELL questioned how reimbursements would fit in with the majority spending plan and if that had been considered by the sponsor. MR. HUBER acknowledged that there could be impact, but school construction would have to come from some place. Currently, the only mechanism is through capital appropriations at 100 percent project cost. SENATOR ADAMS believed the fiscal note should reflect a minimum of $5.8 million, noting that it could go up to between $12-15 million in debt service. He agreed that it would blow the five-year spending plan out of proportion, but he supported it as a good cause. COCHAIR SHARP commented that the bill represented a portion of the majority's comprehensive education package, but problems exist in doing it a piece at a time, particularly with subsection (8). He was supportive of the 50/50 share of the debt load. He requested a revised fiscal note that reflected the total impact of additional debt service that may be incurred due to bonds that have passed and may qualify within the window provided under subsection (8). Amendment #3 was not offered. SENATOR ADAMS commented that the bill takes care of only one segment of the state, and the whole state should be considered. He indicated he would keep the amendment pending and try to find a solution to take care of the "have nots." COCHAIR SHARP requested a report of the last bond package that passed showing whether Mat-Su got any of that money. CSSB 11(FIN) was HELD for further consideration. COCHAIR SHARP announced a ten minute recess at 10:00 A.M. The meeting reconvened at 10:12 A. M. End SFC-97, # 127, Side 2 (127) Flip tape back to Side 1, (begins at 275) CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 145(HES) "An Act relating to certification of teachers." COCHAIR PEARCE noted the SCS work draft, version H, that was before the committee. She read the language that was incorporated into the draft on page 2, line 3 "and for other charges assessed against teachers as part of certification"; line 5: "relating to the certification of teachers"; line 6: "when added to the other fees collected from teachers"; and line 7: "to the fees for certification of teachers". COCHAIR PEARCE MOVED for adoption of the work draft as SCS CSHB 145(FIN). SENATOR ADAMS objected. He inquired if there was a new fiscal note applicable to the SCS and what services teachers would receive for the increased cost. There was no new fiscal note. COCHAIR PEARCE commented that the purpose was to have teachers pay the full cost of certification and licensing through their fees, as do other occupational and professional licensees. SENATOR ADAMS inquired about the difference in cost now and as a result of the bill. COCHAIR PEARCE estimated it would be an increase of approximately $42 for a five-year renewal, and it was still one of the lowest professional license fees in the state. SENATOR ADAMS withdrew his objection. There being no further objection, SCS CSHB 145(FIN) was ADOPTED. JOHN CYR, President, NEA-Alaska, addressed the committee. He testified that he had supported the bill throughout the legislative process, but now had to speak in opposition. Although he favored a formal screening process for applicants for certification, the SCS raised fees by fifty percent. He noted that a new applicant had to pay a license fee of approximately $450 to $500 just to look for work. MR. CYR suggested allowing the NEA, a professional association, to handle certification and policing with legislative oversight. In response to a question from SENATOR ADAMS, he stated no additional services would be added with an increase in fees and that minimal oversight could allow fees to escalate. COCHAIR PEARCE questioned why teachers should be in a class unto themselves with regard to paying the costs of certification. MR. CYR responded that certification costs were being covered. He added that other professions were free to charge what the market would bear, but that teachers were in a different circumstance because their income was regulated through a bargaining procedure and unlike other professionals such as doctors and lawyers, teachers were a part of the state in that they worked for the state's political subdivisions. He suggested that the Professional Teaching Practices Commission have a bigger role in looking at certification requirements if teachers would be paying more. MR. CYR stated he would like to see NEA be responsible for certification. REPRESENTATIVE CON BUNDE addressed the committee. He noted the purpose of the bill was to address the need for screening tests, commenting that the emphasis had shifted to fees. He encouraged the committee to refocus on the main purpose. He suggested a two-tiered fee system be considered for new certification and recertification. COCHAIR PEARCE noted the department already did that and nothing in the bill would prevent the continuation. End of HB 145 on SFC-97, # 127, Side 1, (500). (At this point, the tape skips to SB 11.) Begin SFC-97, #128, Side 1 (000) SENATOR PHILLIPS inquired if NEA supported general proficiency testing as part of high school graduation requirements. MR. CYR commented that it was a complex issue. He supported competency for graduates but believed a one-time test was not the best way to go. He elaborated on the issue. SENATOR DONLEY noted the new language in Section 2 and asked if a delayed effective date for that section could phase the process in. DR. NANCY BUELL, Director, Teaching and Learning Support, Department of Education, responded that a delayed implementation date would allow a more orderly process and would be easier for the population it addresses. There was additional discussion about an effective date. SENATOR DONLEY MOVED Amendment #1, adding an effective date of July 1, 1998 for Section 2 of the bill. Without objection, Amendment #1 was ADOPTED. COCHAIR PEARCE MOVED the bill from committee with individual recommendations. SENATOR ADAMS objected. A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION. IN FAVOR: PHILLIPS, TORGERSON, PARNELL, PEARCE, SHARP OPPOSED: DONLEY, ADAMS And so, by a vote of 5 to 2, SCSCSHB 145(FIN) was REPORTED OUT with a forthcoming fiscal note from the Department of Education (100.0). SENATE BILL NO. 141 "An Act relating to permits to carry concealed handguns; and relating to the possession of firearms." COCHAIR SHARP noted that CSSB 141(FIN), which had been reported out, was before the committee with incorporated amendments. There was an additional amendment before the committee that had been suggested by the drafter. TUCKERMAN BABCOCK, Legislative Aide to Senator Green, noted that the language in the amendment met the legal counsel's concern about due process, but it left the effect of the amendment intact. SENATOR PARNELL MOVED to rescind previous action in Reporting Out CSSB 141(FIN). Without objection, the MOTION CARRIED. SENATOR PARNELL MOVED Amendment #5. SENATOR ADAMS objected. He asked for two examples of a class A misdemeanor. MR. BABCOCK replied that stalking and misconduct involving weapons were examples. SENATOR ADAMS withdrew his objection. There being no further objection, Amendment #5 was ADOPTED. SENATOR ADAMS stated his objection to the bill. It went too far by allowing weapons to be carried in state buildings, courthouses, domestic violence centers, and other places where guns shouldn't be. There was additional discussion about federal restrictions regarding where concealed weapons were allowed. COCHAIR SHARP brought up a fiscal note from the Office of the Governor (OMB) for purchase of lock boxes in various locations. He wanted to zero-out the item. SENATOR ADAMS opposed the suggestion. There was discussion about security in airports and courthouses. SENATOR DONLEY MOVED the bill from committee with individual recommendations. SENATOR ADAMS objected. By a 6 to 1 vote, CSSB 141(FIN) was REPORTED OUT with a previous fiscal note (5.0) and two previous zero fiscal notes from the Department of Public Safety. ADJOURNMENT The meeting was adjourned at approximately 11:06 A.M.