MINUTES SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE May 2, 1996 11:30 a.m. TAPES SFC-96, #107-A, Side 1 (000-575) SFC-96, #107-A, Side 2 (575-075) CALL TO ORDER Senator Rick Halford, Co-chairman, convened the meeting at approximately 11:30 a.m. PRESENT All committee members (Co-chairmen Halford and Frank, and Senators Donley, Phillips, Rieger, Sharp, and Zharoff) were present. ALSO ATTENDING: Representative Joe Green; Representative Jerry Mackie; Dan Lasota, Fairbanks Assemblymen; Nancy Slagle, Director, Division of Budget Review, Office of Management and Budget; Sam Kito, III, Legislative Liaison/Special Assistant, Dept. of Transportation and Public Facilities; Dwight Perkins, Special Assistant, Dept. of Labor; Janice Adair, Director, Division of Environmental Health, Dept. of Environmental Conservation; Paul Grossi, Director, Division of Workers' Compensation, Dept. of Labor; Juanita Hensley, Chief, Driver Services, Dept. of Public Safety; Eleanor Roser, aide to Representative Barnes; Melinda Gruening, aide to Representative Green; Terri Tibbett, aide to Representative Grussendorf; and aides to committee members and other members of the legislature. SUMMARY INFORMATION SB 216 - OMNIBUS STATE FEES & COST ASSESSMENTS Discussion was had with Janice Adair, Paul Grossi, Dwight Perkins, Nancy Slagle, and Sam Kito, III. A draft CSSB 216 (Fin) (version "K," dated 5/1/96) was distributed for review by members and adopted as the mark-up vehicle. An amendment by Co- chairman Frank was adopted. CSSB 216 (Fin) was REPORTED OUT of committee with a $22.0 fiscal note from Dept. of Environmental Conservation (Statewide Pub.Services), zero notes from Dept. of Military & Veterans Affairs, and Office of the Governor (OMB) as well as the following revenue notes: Dept. of Revenue $6,000.0 Dept. of Labor 384.5 Dept. of Education 30.0 Dept. of Natural Resources 10.0 Office of the Governor (Human Rights) 5.1 Dept. of Commerce & Economic Development 841.3 Dept. of Environmental Conservation (Lab.) 100.0 [The foregoing action was subsequently RESCINDED, and the bill was held for further review.] HB 57 - LICENSING REQUIREMENTS FOR DRIVERS Discussion was had with Representative Green, Juanita Hensley, and Melinda Gruening. An amendment lowering the age from 25 to 22 was adopted. The bill was then held in committee pending return of Co-chairman Halford who had temporarily left the meeting. HB 110 - CONFIDENTIALITY OF MOTOR VEHICLE RECORDS Discussion was had with Juanita Hensley and Eleanor Roser. CSSSHB 110 (STA)am was REPORTED OUT of committee with a $3.9 fiscal note from the Dept. of Public Safety showing a revenue reduction of ($50.0). HB 361 - CAPITAL PROJECT MATCHING GRANT FOR INDIAN RESERVATION Testimony was presented by Representative Mackie. No action was taken on the bill. HB 386 - CRUELTY TO ANIMALS Testimony was presented by Terri Tibbett and Dan Lasota. A draft SCS CSHB 386 (version "O," Luckhaupt, 5/2/96) was adopted. The bill was subsequently held in committee. SENATE BILL NO. 216 An Act relating to fees or assessment of costs for certain services provided by state government, including hearing costs related to the real estate surety fund; fees for authorization to operate a postsecondary educational institution or for an agent's permit to perform services for a postsecondary educational institution; administrative fees for self-insurers in workers' compensation; business license fees; fees for activities related to coastal zone management, training relating to emergency management response, regulation of pesticides and broadcast chemicals, and subdivision plans for sewage waste disposal or treatment; and providing for an effective date. Co-chairman Halford advised that in order to avoid the accumulation of amendments that occurred for SB 215, a draft CSSB 216 (Fin) (version "K", dated 5/1/96) was prepared for review by members. He further referenced a sectional analysis of the bill. The Chairman then called for a motion for adoption of the draft as a mark-up vehicle. Senator Randy Phillips so MOVED. No objection having been raised, CSSB 216 (Fin) was ADOPTED. Co-chairman Halford explained that new substantive provisions include: 1. Language that allows municipalities to charge prisoners for the cost of incarceration of municipal prisoners. 2. A gasohol repealer. The Co-chairman next referenced Amendment No. 3, proposed by the Dept. of Environmental Conservation. JANICE ADAIR, Director, Division of Environmental Health, Dept. of Environmental Conservation, came before committee. She explained that the amendment would allow the department to charge a fee for review of subdivision plans to ensure they comply with waste water laws under Title 46. Authority is presently vested in the department unless adopted by a local government. Anchorage and Valdez have elected to take over this function. The department is thus not involved in those reviews. The department reviews subdivision plans to ensure proper disposal of sewage in areas where there is no community system. Language within Amendment No. 3 was in the original bill but taken out by Senate Labor and Commence, in part because the department had general funds to support the activity. Those funds have since been cut. Without fee authority, the department will no longer be able to review subdivision plans. Co-chairman Halford asked if subdivision plan review by the Dept. of Environmental Conservation was required by other law. Ms. Adair responded, "No, Sir. It's under Title 46 only." Senator Sharp asked if most of the plans are designed by registered engineers. Ms. Adair answered affirmatively. She explained that engineers lay out subdivisions based on Title 29 requirements. However, there is no requirement (within that title) that engineers ensure that sewage can be properly disposed of. That requirement is within the Dept. of Environmental Conservation, and DEC has been relied upon to provide that part of the review. In response to a further question regarding fees, Ms. Adair said the fiscal note was based on a flat rate based on the size of the subdivision. Senator Sharp attested to complaints from constituents who have hired registered engineers to do work that must be submitted to DEC when the department does not have a registered engineer reviewing the work. Ms. Adair said the department is required to have a registered engineer review the work. Senator Sharp expressed concern over a flat fee. He attested to complaints from those with professionally designed subdivisions who are delayed by department review and reworking of subdivisions that have not had the benefit of professional assistance. Ms. Adair acknowledged having heard similar complaints on a number of department programs. She concurred in need to deal with the problem. In response to a question from Senator Rieger, Ms. Adair said that authority to review subdivisions is in AS 46.03.090. Amendment No. 3 would simply provide authority to change fees for review. Co-chairman Halford voiced his understanding that authority to review does not constitute a requirement to review. He suggested that there is no enforcement mechanism. Ms. Adair concurred. She added that the chances of a subdivision having failing, on-lot septic systems rises when the department has not done the review. The department has assisted developers modify subdivision layout or size of the lots to preclude problems. If that is not done, the purchaser ends up "getting stuck with the bill to develop a sewage system that can be accommodated on their lot." Review is thus a preventive exercise. Co-chairman Halford said he had a problem with small subdivisions of large lots. He suggested that review should not be necessary for subdivisions of less than four lots where none of the lots are smaller than several acres. Ms. Adair concurred that subdivisions cited by the Co-chairman are generally not a problem. The department tends not to review larger subdivisions due to lack of staff. Discussion followed concerning requirements embodied within HB 80. Additional discussion followed regarding division of large parcels (10 acres was used as an example) into two halves and whether or not that should come under DEC review. When Senator Rieger cited an example of 10 acres posed for subdivision into one-acre lots, Ms. Adair said it would probably be subject to DEC review if on-lot sewage disposal is involved. The department would review the lots to ensure that they are developable. If the subdivision would be hooking up to a community sewage system, the situation is different. If a lot must accommodate sewage disposal, it will probably also have to accommodate drinking water. Further discussion of developability followed. Co-chairman Halford voiced need to exempt subdivisions of less than four lots where no lot is less than one acre before he could support the language within Amendment No. 3. The fee will give the department ability to set, drive, and run the program. The program must have bounds. While there is no direct enforcement mechanism in terms of recording, there is still a general requirement. Ms. Adair asked that she be given an opportunity to contact department engineers to determine whether one acre would be an appropriate cutoff. Senator Sharp expressed support for comments by the Co-chairman. He voiced reluctance to provided ability to charge fees for a program for which "I get nothing but complaints that DEC shouldn't even be in the business," particularly when professional engineers do the design work. Discussion followed among members regarding costs associated with redesign and delay of an entire season due to failure to gain timely approval of designs. Co-chairman Halford directed that Ms. Adair work with department engineers to return appropriate amendment language to committee. PAUL GROSSI, Director, Division of Workers' Compensation, Dept. of Labor, next came before committee. He referenced Section 4 and advised that it would allow the department to assess a fee upon self-insurers, similar to that charged employers who have to purchase a workers' compensation insurance policy. The fee would be 4% on the previous year's claim experience. That would be similar to the 2.7 percent premium tax assessed against employers who purchase workers' compensation insurance. Co-chairman Halford asked if there was significant opposition. Mr. Grossi responded negatively. He acknowledged that no one wants to pay more. However, those who are self-insured view this as a significant service in that they can save money by exercising control over their own claims. DWIGHT PERKINS, Special Assistant, Dept. of Labor, next spoke before committee. He referenced an updated fiscal note and explained that it reflects removal of municipalities, school districts, and regional education attendance areas per action taken in Senate Labor and Commerce. Co-chairman Halford referenced CSSB 216 (Fin) and explained that Amendment No. 4 was included with exception of the requirement that the municipality charge a fee no less than the state fee. Amendment No. 5, adding an application fee on the exploration incentive credit, was also included. Amendment No. 3 containing the DEC fee for subdivision review remains the only outstanding amendment. Senator Zharoff inquired regarding marine and harbor facility fees within Section 7 (Page 3) of the bill. NANCY SLAGLE, Director, Division of Budget Review, Office of Management and Budget, explained that language would allow municipalities to charge fees to cover operation and repair work at state harbor and marine facilities. Municipalities have not previously been able to charge sufficient amounts to maintain the facilities. SAM KITO, III, Special Assistant/Legislative Liaison, Dept. of Transportation and Public Facilities, advised of 100 marine and harbor facilities owned by the state. There are contracts for management and operation of approximately 84 facilities. The proposed bill would allow the department additional authority to contract and require that a community establish a fund to take care of extended deferred maintenance and replacement costs of float facilities within harbors. Senator Zharoff asked for a list of facilities impacted by the bill. Co-chairman Halford directed that the meeting be briefly recessed. RECESS - 12:00 NOON RECONVENE - 12:10 P.M. Janice Adair from the Dept. of Environmental Conservation returned to committee and offered the following language for incorporation within Amendment No. 3: The fees authorized by this subsection may not be levied for reviews of subdivisions being divided into four lots or less where each lot is at least one acre in size. The foregoing would exclude larger subdivisions that gave rise to committee concern. Co-chairman Halford asked if the department would support inclusion of the foregoing amendment as the bill makes its way through the House. Ms. Adair responded affirmatively. Senator Sharp MOVED for adoption of Amendment No. 3 as redrafted by the department. No objection having been raised, Amendment No. 3 was ADOPTED as redrafted. Senator Rieger MOVED to tighten the title to reflect the content of the bill. No objection having been raised, a title amendment was ADOPTED. Co-chairman Halford noted that associated fiscal notes should reflect program receipt increases and general fund decreases. He suggested that fiscal notes not be considered new revenue sources for net adds to the operating budget. Members concurred in that understanding. Senator Sharp MOVED for passage of CSSB 216 (Fin) with individual recommendations and accompanying fiscal notes.No objection having been raised, CSSB 216 (Fin) was REPORTED OUT* of committee with a $22.0 fiscal note from Dept. of Environmental Conservation (Statewide Pub.Services), zero notes from Dept. of Military & Veterans Affairs, and Office of the Governor (OMB) as well as the following revenue (program receipt) notes: Dept. of Revenue $6,000.0 Dept. of Labor 384.5 Dept. of Education 30.0 Dept. of Natural Resources 10.0 Office of the Governor (Human Rights) 5.1 Dept. of Commerce & Economic Development 841.3 Dept. of Environmental Conservation (Lab.) 100.0 Co-chairman Frank and Senator Sharp signed the committee report with a "do pass" recommendation. Co-chairman Halford and Senators Phillips, Rieger, and Zharoff signed "no recommendation." [*See pages 8 and 9 of these minutes for action rescinding passage of CSSB 216 (Fin).] CS FOR SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 110(STA) am An Act relating to the confidentiality of certain information in motor vehicle records. Co-chairman Halford directed that CSSSHB 110 (STA)am be brought on for discussion. ELEANOR ROSER, aide to Representative Barnes, came before committee and read the sponsor statement (copy on file in the original Senate Finance Committee file for HB 110) into the record. She noted that the bill responds to constituents who were stalked by individuals who obtained the victim's address from the division of motor vehicles. In 1994, confidentiality of license plate information was included in the President's crime package. The intent was to protect personal privacy and only disclose information for permissible uses. Businesses that purchase lists (banks, credit unions, insurance companies) will still be able to do so, but they will be required to abide by restrictions imposed by the Federal Act. If Alaska is not in compliance with federal law by September 13, 1997, division of motor vehicle employees could be liable for fines of $2,500.00 per day; and the state could be subject to fines of $5,000.00 until compliance is achieved. The legislation is supported by the Council on Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault and the Dept. of Public Safety. Senator Randy Phillips voiced his preference for a January 1, 1997, effective date due to logistical computer problems. Co-chairman Halford expressed concern over delay, citing problems associated with open records and federal compliance. JUANITA HENSLEY, Chief of Driver Services, Division of Motor Vehicles, Dept. of Public Safety, came before committee. She advised that lack of an effective date provides the division ample time to implement the program. Co-chairman Halford said it appears the sponsor removed immediate effective date provisions to accommodate implementation concerns. Lack of an effective date would enact the bill 90 days after passage. The Co-chairman advised that he would not support a further change without agreement of the sponsor. Eleanor Roser said that while there would be no problem with a change of effective date to January 1, 1997, need for the bill to return to the House for concurrence poses a problem because of a shortage of time. In response to an inquiry from Senator Rieger, Juanita Hensley explained that records could still be released for legitimate business purposes. Under subsection (e), an individual may instruct DMV not to release his or her information. That would keep personal information totally private and confidential. Those receiving information for legitimate business purposes would not be able to disseminate information that is to remain confidential. Mrs. Hensley acknowledged that what is released is a policy call for the legislature. The state may be more restrictive than federal law, but it cannot be less restrictive. Discussion followed regarding check-off provisions on applications which would allow individuals to elect to keep records private. Mrs. Hensley further commented upon development of model language used within the proposed bill. END: SFC-96, #107-A, Side 1 BEGIN: SFC-96, #107-A, Side 2 Senator Sharp MOVED for passage of CSSSHB 110(STA)am with individual recommendations and accompanying fiscal notes. No objection having been raised, CSSSHB 110(STA)am was REPORTED OUT of committee with a fiscal note from the Dept. of Public Safety showing a cost of $3.9 and a ($50.) reduction in revenues. Co-chairmen Halford and Frank and Senators Phillips, Rieger, and Sharp signed the committee report with a "do pass" recommendation. Senators Donley and Zharoff signed "no recommendation." CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 216(FIN) An Act relating to fees, assessments, and costs for certain functions of state or municipal government including hearing costs related to the real estate surety fund, fees for authorization to operate a postsecondary educational institution or for an agent's permit to perform services for a postsecondary educational institution, fees of the state Commission on Human Rights, administrative fees for self-insurers in workers' compensation, fees relating to applications for exploration incentive credits, charges to prisoners, marine and harbor facility use fees, business license fees, fees for training relating to management of hazardous substances and emergency management response, fees for regulation of pesticides and broadcast chemicals; and subdivision plans for sewage waste disposal or treatment; relating to a tax exemption; and providing for an effective date. At this point in the meeting, Co-chairman Frank asked that CSSB 216 (Fin) be brought back before committee. He then MOVED to rescind committee action passing the bill. He expressed a preference for subdivision review at the municipal rather than state level and voiced need to more closely review the fee section. No objection having been raised, committee action passing CSSB 216 (Fin) was RESCINDED. [Co-chairman Halford left the meeting at this time, and Co- chairman Frank assumed the chair.] HOUSE BILL NO. 57 An Act relating to driver's licensing; and providing for an effective date. MELINDA GRUENING, aide to Representative Joe Green, came before committee. She explained that the intent of the bill is to establish a graduated driver's licencing system. At the present time, individuals 18 to 20 years old constitute 6.2 percent of all Alaskan drivers but account for 13.9 percent of the accidents and 28 percent of fatal crashes. Among this age group, a large majority of the accidents occur in the early hours of the morning. Teens are twice as likely to be involved in fatal crashes as adults. The intent of the legislation is to ease a young driver, under controlled conditions, into the driving environment by increasing the amount of behind-the-wheel driving practice, increasing exposure to progressively more difficult driving experiences, and requiring them to earn full driving privileges by demonstrating a safe and responsible driving record. The proposed bill would establish a graduated system whereby a 14-year old may apply for a learner permit. At age 16, providing a driver has held a permit for at least six months, he or she could be graduated to a provisional license. The provisional license would restrict nighttime driving between 1:00 a.m. and 5:00 a.m., with an exception for driving to and from work. The other difference between an unrestricted license and a provisional license is that the licensee is only allowed to accumulate 8 points in a 12-month period rather than the 12 points allowed for an unrestricted license. If the holder of a provisional license demonstrates a safe driving record in the one-year provisional period, an unrestricted license can be awarded. Thirteen states presently have laws that limit teenagers from operating motor vehicles during late evening or early morning hours. Studies show that nighttime restrictions significantly reduce accidents. HB 57 is designed to allow the Dept. of Public Safety to take advantage of new federal funding to implement the legislation. Federal law passed in 1993 established monetary incentives for states that implement programs for young drivers. That federal funding is reflected in the fiscal note. Ms. Gruening next attested to wide support for the bill. She further advised of changes to the bill as it progressed through the Senate. The original bill covered novice drivers 16 through 21. It now covers ages 14 through 17. The House bill was limited to 6 points. Senate committees increased the number to 8. In response to a question from Senator Sharp, JUANITA HENSLEY, Chief, Driver Services, Division of Motor Vehicles, Dept. of Public Safety, again came before committee. She said there is presently no requirement that an individual have an instruction permit between the ages of 14 and 16. The proposed bill requires the permit for at least six months prior to application for a provisional license at 16. The instruction permit would require the teen to drive with a person 25 years or older. At 16 the teen could obtain a one-year provisional license with curfew restrictions. On the teen's 17th birthday, he or she could get an unrestricted license. Discussion of curfews followed between Mrs. Hensley and Senator Randy Phillips. Mrs. Hensley stressed that the intent is not to restrict young people but to save lives and provide teenagers some behind-the-wheel training. She further commented on the lack of driving experience associated with the prom night accident on the Kenai. A national survey indicates 74 percent of the parents surveyed support a curfew. Mrs. Hensley noted that, in Alaska, the average cost of hospitalization for a crash involving teenagers is $18,000.00. That does not include doctor fees and the cost of rehabilitation. Co-chairman Frank referenced a note from Co-chairman Halford indicating interest in effecting a change in the age (from 25 to 19) of the driver that must accompany a teenager utilizing an instructional permit. Mrs. Hensley said that 21 is the limit under the federal incentive program. She further attested to the fact that Alaska applied for and was awarded a $77.0 grant. The proposed bill would allow the state to receive the funds to implement a graduated license program. The model program for a graduated license provides a range of 21 to 25. Representative Green selected 25 since that is the age at which insurance breaks occur. Co- chairman Frank expressed a preference for 22 since that is the age at which most individuals graduate from college. Senator Randy Phillips MOVED to change the age set forth on Page 2, line 2, from 25 to 22. No objection having been raised, the Amendment was ADOPTED. Brief discussion followed regarding application of the foregoing amendment to SCSHB 57 (Jud) or a draft SCSHB 57 (9-LS0269\K, Ford, 4/26/96). Senator Rieger voiced his understanding that the draft removes the nighttime restrictions. Senator Sharp expressed a reluctance to make that change. Mrs. Hensley voiced department support for SCSHB 57 (Jud), noting that nighttime provisions (Page 2, lines 19 through 27) would allow young people to drive at night when going to and from employment. REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN reiterated that teenagers have the most driving accidents between 1:00 a.m. and 5:00 a.m. Those four hours are the wrong time to be out driving. Co-chairman Frank advised of his understanding that Co- chairman Halford preferred removal of the curfew restriction per the draft committee substitute. He then directed that the bill be held pending comments from the Co-chairman. CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 386(JUD) An Act relating to cruelty to animals and to the power of first and second class boroughs to prohibit cruelty to animals. Senator Phillips noted that both he and Representative Grussendorf introduced legislation on the same subject matter and subsequently worked together in development of a draft SCS CSHB 386 (9-LS1203\O, Luckhaupt, 5/2/96). Co- chairman Frank said the committee would hear testimony but would not move the bill at this time. TERRI TIBBETT, aide to Representative Grussendorf, explained that the bill lowers the criminal standard by which a person may be prosecuted for acts of neglect or cruelty. It also gives first and second class boroughs authority to enact ordinances to prohibit cruelty to animals, and it exempts commercial farm animals and commercial farmers from municipal regulation. It further provides the Commissioner of the Dept. of Environmental Conservation the option to regulate commercial farm animals and commercial farmers, if he or she chooses. In response to an inquiry from Senator Rieger, Ms. Tibbett directed attention to the definition of "commercial farm animal" and "commercial farmer" set forth at Page 2, lines 22 through 28. Co-chairman Frank inquired regarding concerns expressed by dog mushers and trappers. Ms. Tibbett explained that trappers presently have a defense to prosecution in statutes. It ties the defense to the fact that the conduct was necessarily incident to lawful hunting or trapping activities. Mushers also have a statutory defense in language that says that "It is a defense to a prosecution that the conduct of the defendant conformed to accepted veterinary practices." Ms. Tibbett advised that members of "Mush with Pride," a group that provides guidelines and standards of care for mushers, indicated members felt protected under current statute AS 11.61.140. Co-chairman Frank asked if the proposed bill does more than merely grant powers to municipalities. Ms. Tibbett explained that the bill would not give nor take away rights, except for provisions relating to first and second class boroughs. The bill primarily lowers the criminal standard by which people may be prosecuted to make it easier for prosecutors. Co-chairman Frank voiced his understanding that was accomplished by changing "intentionally" to "knowingly," the latter of which is a lower standard. Ms. Tibbett concurred, advising of a change from "recklessly" to "with criminal negligence" in relation to criminal neglect. Discussion followed regarding composition of the "Mush with Pride" group. DAN LASOTA, Fairbanks Assemblyman, next came before committee. He explained that the assembly had been tracking the bill since inception, due to the fact that Fairbanks finds itself in the unusual position of only being able to examine cases of animal cruelty relating to dogs and not other kinds of animals. That results from a varied history of voter-approved and legislatively granted powers. The assembly asked that the legislature, through resolution, do something similar to what is accomplished by the proposed bill. The current draft clarifies the situation for farmers. Co-chairman Frank directed that SCS CSHB 386 be held pending Co-chairman Halford's return to the meeting. Senator Donley MOVED for adoption of SCS CSHB 386 (version "O") as a working document. No objection having been raised, SCS CSHB 386 (Fin) was ADOPTED. HOUSE BILL NO. 361 An Act relating to municipal capital project matching grants for a municipality organized under federal law as an Indian reserve; and providing for an effective date. REPRESENTATIVE JERRY MACKIE came before committee in support of his bill and acknowledged a companion bill in the Senate, introduced by Senator Zharoff. The Representative explained that the bill attempts to address a problem relating to the capital matching grant program as it applies to Metlakatla. Metlakatla is not defined as other municipalities since it is a municipality organized under federal law as an Indian reserve. Although Metlakatla had received grants until last year, it is unclear whether language qualifies the community to receive capital matching grants. The community was thus denied grants other than an unincorporated matching grant. HB 361 would allow Metlakatla to receive capital matching grants. The community continues to receive state funds in other revenue sharing and municipal assistance programs. The proposed bill is drafted with the same language used in other municipal funding. The administration supports the bill; there has been no opposition. Representative Mackie acknowledged questions raised in other committees asking if passage of the proposed bill allowing an Indian reserve to receive the funds would "open the doors to tribes that claim sovereignty" and other Native organizations that are not municipalities. He advised that the answer is, "No." He further referenced an attorney general's opinion to that effect, pointed to language at Page 1, lines 6 through 8, and stressed that it applies only to Metlakatla. The bill is accompanied by zero fiscal notes. Senator Zharoff noted that the administration's capital matching grant program includes "passage of this bill as well." Co-chairman Frank directed that the bill be held in committee pending return of Co-chairman Halford. ADJOURNMENT The meeting was recessed at approximately 1:07 p.m.