HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE April 22, 1996 8:11 a.m. MEMBERS PRESENT Representative Joe Green, Co-Chairman Representative William K. "Bill" Williams, Co-Chairman Representative Scott Ogan, Vice Chairman Representative Alan Austerman Representative John Davies Representative Don Long Representative Irene Nicholia MEMBERS ABSENT Representative Ramona Barnes Representative Pete Kott COMMITTEE CALENDAR HOUSE BILL NO. 381 "An Act relating to oil and gas conservation and recovery." - MOVED CSHB 381 (O&G) OUT OF COMMITTEE CONFIRMATION OF GOVERNOR'S APPOINTMENTS TO THE BOARD OF FISHERIES CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 198(FIN) "An Act establishing the Homer Airport Critical Habitat Area." - SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 199(FIN) "An Act relating to environmental audits and health and safety audits to determine compliance with certain laws, permits, and regulations." - SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD HOUSE BILL NO. 516 "An Act relating to air quality control." - SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD PREVIOUS ACTION BILL: HB 381 SHORT TITLE: OIL AND GAS CONSERVATION & RECOVERY SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) GREEN,B.Davis JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION 12/29/95 2366 (H) PREFILE RELEASED 01/08/96 2366 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S) 01/08/96 2366 (H) OIL & GAS, RESOURCES 03/26/96 (H) O&G AT 10:00 AM CAPITOL 124 03/26/96 (H) MINUTE(O&G) 04/16/96 (H) O&G AT 10:00 AM CAPITOL 124 04/17/96 3815 (H) O&G RPT CS(O&G) 3DP 1DNP 3NR 04/17/96 3815 (H) DP: OGAN, B.DAVIS, WILLIAMS 04/17/96 3815 (H) NR: BRICE, G.DAVIS, ROKEBERG 04/17/96 3815 (H) 2 ZERO FISCAL NOTES (ADM, DNR) 04/22/96 (H) RES AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 124 BILL: SB 198 SHORT TITLE: HOMER AIRPORT CRITICAL HAB. AREA SPONSOR(S): SENATOR(S) TORGERSON; REPRESENTATIVE(S) Navarre JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION 01/05/96 2058 (S) PREFILE RELEASED - 1/5/95 01/08/96 2058 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S) 01/08/96 2058 (S) RES, FIN 02/21/96 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH ROOM 205 02/21/96 (S) MINUTE(RES) 03/01/96 (S) RES AT 11:30 AM BUTROVICH RM 205 03/01/96 (S) MINUTE(RES) 03/13/96 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH ROOM 205 03/14/96 2735 (S) RES RPT CS 3DP 2NR SAME TITLE 03/22/96 2831 (S) ZERO FISCAL NOTE TO CS (DNR) 03/28/96 (S) FIN AT 8:30 AM SENATE FINANCE 532 03/28/96 2939 (S) ZERO FISCAL NOTE TO CS (F&G) 03/28/96 2939 (S) FIN RPT CS 3DP 1NR SAME TITLE 03/29/96 (S) RLS AT 12:05 PM FAHRENKAMP RM 203 03/29/96 (S) MINUTE(RLS) 03/29/96 2964 (S) FORTHCOMING CS RECEIVED 03/28/96 2939 (S) PREVIOUS ZERO FNS 04/01/96 2993 (S) RULES TO CALENDAR 4/1/96 04/01/96 2995 (S) READ THE SECOND TIME 04/01/96 2995 (S) FIN CS ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT 04/01/96 2995 (S) ADVANCED TO THIRD READING UNAN CONSENT 04/01/96 2995 (S) READ THE THIRD TIME CSSB 198(FIN) 04/01/96 2995 (S) PASSED Y19 N1 04/01/96 2995 (S) Adams NOTICE OF RECONSIDERATION 04/02/96 3028 (S) RECON TAKEN UP - IN THIRD READING 04/02/96 3028 (S) PASSED ON RECONSIDERATION Y20 N- 04/02/96 3030 (S) TRANSMITTED TO (H) 04/03/96 3615 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S) 04/03/96 3615 (H) RESOURCES, FINANCE 04/03/96 3629 (H) CROSS SPONSOR(S): NAVARRE 04/22/96 (H) RES AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 124 BILL: SB 199 SHORT TITLE: ENVIRONMENTAL & HEALTH/SAFETY AUDITS SPONSOR(S): SENATOR(S) LEMAN,Pearce JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION 01/05/96 2058 (S) PREFILE RELEASED - 1/5/96 01/08/96 2058 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S) 01/08/96 2058 (S) RESOURCES 01/31/96 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH ROOM 205 01/31/96 (S) MINUTE(RES) 02/02/96 2287 (S) FIN REFERRAL ADDED 03/06/96 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH ROOM 205 03/06/96 (S) MINUTE(RES) 03/11/96 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH ROOM 205 03/11/96 (S) MINUTE(RES) 03/12/96 2708 (S) RES RPT CS 4DP 1NR NEW TITLE 03/12/96 2708 (S) FISCAL NOTES TO SB & CS (DEC, F&G) 03/12/96 2708 (S) INDETERMINATE FISCAL NOTE (DNR) 03/12/96 2708 (S) ZERO FISCAL NOTES TO SB & CS (DOT, MVA) 03/20/96 (S) FIN AT 9:00 AM SENATE FINANCE 532 03/26/96 (S) FIN AT 9:00 AM SENATE FINANCE 532 04/02/96 (S) FIN AT 9:00 AM SENATE FINANCE 532 04/03/96 (S) FIN AT 9:00 AM SENATE FINANCE 532 04/03/96 (S) RLS AT 1:15 PM FAHRENKAMP RM 203 04/03/96 3041 (S) FIN RPT CS 1DP 4NR 1AM NEW TITLE 04/03/96 3041 (S) FNS TO CS (DEC, DNR) 04/03/96 3041 (S) ZERO FN TO CS (DOT) 04/03/96 3041 (S) PREVIOUS FN (F&G) 04/03/96 3041 (S) PREVIOUS ZERO FN (DMVA) 04/09/96 3092 (S) RULES TO CALENDAR & 1NR 4/9/96 04/09/96 3094 (S) READ THE SECOND TIME 04/09/96 3094 (S) FIN CS ADOPTED Y11 N5 E4 04/09/96 3095 (S) ADVANCE TO THIRD READING FLD Y11 N5 E4 04/09/96 3095 (S) THIRD READING 4/10 CALENDAR 04/10/96 3128 (S) READ THE THIRD TIME CSSB 199(FIN) 04/10/96 3128 (S) PASSED Y11 N9 04/10/96 3128 (S) SALO NOTICE OF RECONSIDERATION 04/11/96 3161 (S) RECON TAKEN UP - IN THIRD READING 04/11/96 3161 (S) PLACED AT BOTTOM OF CALENDAR 04/11/96 3171 (S) PASSED Y11 N9 04/11/96 3176 (S) TRANSMITTED TO (H) 04/12/96 3689 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S) 04/12/96 3690 (H) RESOURCES, LABOR & COMMERCE 04/17/96 (H) RES AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 124 04/17/96 (H) L&C AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 17 04/19/96 (H) L&C AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 17 04/22/96 (H) RES AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 124 BILL: SB 199 SHORT TITLE: ENVIRONMENTAL & HEALTH/SAFETY AUDITS SPONSOR(S): SENATOR(S) LEMAN,Pearce JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION 01/05/96 2058 (S) PREFILE RELEASED - 1/5/96 01/08/96 2058 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S) 01/08/96 2058 (S) RESOURCES 01/31/96 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH ROOM 205 01/31/96 (S) MINUTE(RES) 02/02/96 2287 (S) FIN REFERRAL ADDED 03/06/96 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH ROOM 205 03/06/96 (S) MINUTE(RES) 03/11/96 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH ROOM 205 03/11/96 (S) MINUTE(RES) 03/12/96 2708 (S) RES RPT CS 4DP 1NR NEW TITLE 03/12/96 2708 (S) FISCAL NOTES TO SB & CS (DEC, F&G) 03/12/96 2708 (S) INDETERMINATE FISCAL NOTE (DNR) 03/12/96 2708 (S) ZERO FISCAL NOTES TO SB & CS (DOT, MVA) 03/20/96 (S) FIN AT 9:00 AM SENATE FINANCE 532 03/26/96 (S) FIN AT 9:00 AM SENATE FINANCE 532 04/02/96 (S) FIN AT 9:00 AM SENATE FINANCE 532 04/03/96 (S) FIN AT 9:00 AM SENATE FINANCE 532 04/03/96 (S) RLS AT 1:15 PM FAHRENKAMP RM 203 04/03/96 3041 (S) FIN RPT CS 1DP 4NR 1AM NEW TITLE 04/03/96 3041 (S) FNS TO CS (DEC, DNR) 04/03/96 3041 (S) ZERO FN TO CS (DOT) 04/03/96 3041 (S) PREVIOUS FN (F&G) 04/03/96 3041 (S) PREVIOUS ZERO FN (DMVA) 04/09/96 3092 (S) RULES TO CALENDAR & 1NR 4/9/96 04/09/96 3094 (S) READ THE SECOND TIME 04/09/96 3094 (S) FIN CS ADOPTED Y11 N5 E4 04/09/96 3095 (S) ADVANCE TO THIRD READING FLD Y11 N5 E4 04/09/96 3095 (S) THIRD READING 4/10 CALENDAR 04/10/96 3128 (S) READ THE THIRD TIME CSSB 199(FIN) 04/10/96 3128 (S) PASSED Y11 N9 04/10/96 3128 (S) SALO NOTICE OF RECONSIDERATION 04/11/96 3161 (S) RECON TAKEN UP - IN THIRD READING 04/11/96 3161 (S) PLACED AT BOTTOM OF CALENDAR 04/11/96 3171 (S) PASSED Y11 N9 04/11/96 3176 (S) TRANSMITTED TO (H) 04/12/96 3689 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S) 04/12/96 3690 (H) RESOURCES, LABOR & COMMERCE 04/17/96 (H) RES AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 124 04/17/96 (H) L&C AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 17 04/19/96 (H) L&C AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 17 04/22/96 (H) RES AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 124 BILL: HB 516 SHORT TITLE: AIR QUALITY PROGRAM AMENDMENTS SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) GREEN JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION 02/12/96 2729 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S) 02/12/96 2729 (H) RESOURCES, FINANCE 04/17/96 (H) RES AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 124 04/22/96 (H) RES AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 124 WITNESS REGISTER JEFF LOGAN, Legislative Aide to Representative Green Alaska State Legislature State Capitol, Room 24 Juneau, Alaska 99801 Telephone: (907) 465-4931 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 381 GRANT J. MILLER P.O. Box 2456 Sitka, Alaska 99833 Telephone: (907) 747-5982 POSITION STATEMENT: Appointee to the Board of Fisheries VIRGIL L. UMPHENOUR 2400 Davis Road Fairbanks, Alaska 99701 Telephone: (907) 456-3885 POSITION STATEMENT: Appointee to the Board of Fisheries DAN KELLY COFFEY 207 East Northern Lights Boulevard, Number 200 Anchorage, Alaska 99503 Telephone: (907) 274-3385 POSITION STATEMENT: Appointee to the Board of Fisheries CHRIS PERRY P.O. Box 1808 Homer, Alaska 99603 Telephone: (907) 235-6069 POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed the appointment of Mr. Coffey and Mr. Umphenour ART NELSON, Fisheries Biologist Bering Sea Fishermen Association 725 Christensen Drive Anchorage, Alaska 99501 Telephone: (907) 279-6519 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the appointment of Mr. Umphenour ROBERT SUNDOWN, Fisheries Biologist Association of Village Council Presidents P.O. Box 219 Bethel, Alaska 99559 Telephone: (907) 543-3521 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the appointment of Mr. Umphenour and opposed the appointment of Mr. Coffey MYRON NANENG, President Association of Village Council Presidents P.O. Box 219 Bethel, Alaska 99559 Telephone: (907) 543-3521 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the appointment of Mr. Umphenour and opposed the appointment of Mr. Coffey JACOB OLANNA, SR. Kawerak, Incorporated P.O. Box 948 Nome, Alaska 99762 Telephone: (907) 443-4728 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the appointment of Mr. Umphenour and opposed the appointment of Mr. Coffey ROY ASHENFELTER, Subistence Fisherman Kawerak, Incorporated P.O. Box 948 Nome, Alaska 99762 Telephone: (907) 443-4324 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the appointment of Mr. Umphenour and opposed the appointment of Mr. Coffey JACOB AHWINONA, Subsistence Fisherman Kawerak, Incorporated P.O. Box 746 Nome, Alaska 99762 Telephone: (907) 443-5702 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the appointment of Mr. Umphenour and opposed the appointment of Mr. Coffey JOHN CHILDS, Commercial Fisherman and Sportsfishing Guide 2091 Yellow Snow Road Fairbanks, Alaska 99709 Telephone: (907) 455-6028 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the appointment of Mr. Umphenour BILL HENRY 1081 Duck Pond Road North Pole, Alaska 99705 Telephone: (907) 488-6800 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the appointment of Mr. Umphenour GARY HULL, Sportsfish Guide P.O. Box 1964 Soldotna, Alaska 99669 Telephone: (907) 262-5661 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the appointment of Mr. Umphenour and Mr. Coffey TYLAND VAN LIER, Sportsfish Guide P.O. Box 2357 Soldotna, Alaska 99669 Telephone: (907) 262-1521 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the appointment of Mr. Umphenour and Mr. Coffey RHON LYONS, Sportsfish Guide P.O. Box 731 Sterling, Alaska 99672 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the appointment of Mr. Umphenour and Mr. Coffey JOHN EFTA P.O. Box 353 Kenai, Alaska 99611 Telephone: (907) 283-5899 POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed the appointment of Mr. Coffey BEN ELLIS, Executive Director Kenai River Sport Fishing Association P.O. Box 1228 Soldotna, Alaska 99669 Telephone: (907) 262-8088 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the appointment of Mr. Umphenour and Mr. Coffey DOUG SWEAT 11516 Gilliam Way Fairbanks, Alaska 99701 Telephone: (907) 455-8810 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the appointment of Mr. Umphenour and opposed the appointment of Mr. Coffey MIKE WING, Commercial Fisherman P.O. Box 55122 North Pole, Alaska 99705 Telephone: (907) 488-2757 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the appointment of Mr. Umphenour LAURA AMUNDSON 590 Gold Mine Trail Fairbanks, Alaska 99712 Telephone: (907) 457-7191 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the appointment of Mr. Umphenour and testified on the appointment of Mr. Coffey DICK BOWER, Member Board of Fisheries P.O. Box 3662 Soldotna, Alaska 99669 Telephone: (907) 262-7132 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on the appointments of Mr. Umphenour, Mr. Coffey and Mr. Miller JOE HARDY, Representative Local SPARIC Chapter Kenai, Alaska 99669 Telephone: (907) 262-9981 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the appointment of Mr. Umphenour and Mr. Coffey JOE HANES, President Kenai River Guides Association P.O. Box 3132 Soldotna, Alaska 99669 Telephone: (907) 262-6388 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the appointment of Mr. Umphenour and Mr. Coffey BRAD ADAMS P.O. Box 994 Soldotna, Alaska 99669 Telephone: (907) 262-1961 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the appointment of Mr. Umphenour and Mr. Coffey GILBERT HUNTINGTON, Co-Chair Yukon River Drainage Fisheries Association P.O. Box 264 Galena, Alaska 99741 Telephone: (907) 656-1435 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the appointment of Mr. Umphenour and Mr. Miller, Opposed the appointment of Mr. Coffey RICHARD BURNMAN, Subsistence and Commercial Fisherman Kaltag, Alaska Telephone: (907) 534-2203 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the appointment of Mr. Umphenour JOE HAGER, Sport fish Guide P.O. Box 11 Soldotna, Alaska 99669 Telephone: (907) 262-1575 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the appointment of Mr. Umphenour and Mr. Coffey RON KANDAS P.O. Box 2744 Soldotna, Alaska 99669 Telephone: (907) 262-1961 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the appointment of Mr. Umphenour and Mr. Coffey CHARLIE DREW, Sport fisherman P.O. Box 3132 Soldotna, Alaska 99669 Telephone: (907) 262-6388 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the appointment of Mr. Coffey, Testified on the appointment of Mr. Umphenour DALE BONDURANT HC1 bOX 1197 Soldotna, Alaska 99669 Telephone: (907) 262-0818 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on the Confirmation Process DREW SPARLIN 37010 Cannery Road Kenai, Alaska 99611 Telephone: (907) 283-4095 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the appointment of Mr. Miller Opposed the appointment of Mr. Coffey IRENE FANDEL, Business Owner 702 Lawton Drive Kenai, Alaska 99611 Telephone: (907) 283-4501 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the appointment of Mr. Umphenour HENRY FANDEL, Business Owner and Sportsfish Guide 702 Lawton Drive Kenai, Alaska 99611 Telephone: (907) 283-4501 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the appointment of Mr. Umphenour and Mr. Coffey BILL WHITNEY HC3 Box 5762 Soldotna, Alaska 99669 Telephone: (907) 262-2535 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the appointment of Mr. Umphenour and Mr. Coffey PAUL DALE, President Salmon Producers Alliance P.O. Box 2725 Kenai, Alaska 99611 Telephone: (907) 776-5342 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the appointment of Mr. Miller and Testified on the appointment of Mr. Umphenour JERRY McCUNE, Lobbyist United Fishermen of Alaska 211 4th Street, Number 122 Juneau, Alaska 99801 Telephone: (907) 586-2820 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the appointment of Mr. Miller Opposed the appointment of Mr. Coffey and Testified on Mr. Umphenour ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 96-61, SIDE A Number 0000 CO-CHAIR JOE GREEN called the House Standing Committee on Resources to order at 8:11 a.m. Members present at the call to order included Austerman, Long, Ogan, Williams and Green. A quorum was present. This meeting was teleconferenced to Anchorage, Fairbanks, Bethel, Homer, Kenai, Sitka, Kodiak, Nome and various offnet sites. CO-CHAIR GREEN announced that the agenda would include HB 381, Governor's Appointment to the Board of Fisheries, SB 199, SB 198 and HB 516 if time allowed. HB 381 - OIL AND GAS CONSERVATION & RECOVERY  Number 0061 CO-CHAIR GREEN announced that the first item on the agenda was HB 381, an act relating to oil and gas conservation and recovery. JEFF LOGAN, Legislative Aide to Representative Green, was first to testify. He read the sponsor statement into the record, "HB 381 clarified that the powers of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission (AOGCC) to prevent waste, protect correlative rights and realize ultimate recovery on all state land lawfully subject to its police powers prevails over a contrary decision by the DNR. AS 31.05.027 states very clearly that, `The authority of the commission applies to all land in the state lawfully subject to its police powers.' However, recently the administration has raised the specter of overlapping jurisdiction." MR. LOGAN referred to the document titled, "Decision Regarding Jurisdiction," located in the committee packet and continued reading the statement, "We believe that a clear, concise line of authority from the legislature to the independent agency, the oil and gas commission, is important for the development of our hydrocarbon resources." Number 0177 REPRESENTATIVE ALAN AUSTERMAN asked for a section by section analysis on HB 381. MR. LOGAN said the first section of HB 381 does exactly as the language states, it allows the AOGCC to modify determination or action by the commissioner of the Department of Natural Resources (DNR) except for 38.05.180, subsections (p), (q) and (u). He said Section 1 does not allow the AOGCC to modify subsection (j), which was HB 207, passed last year, allowing the commissioner of DNR to change royalty rates. Number 0266 CO-CHAIR GREEN said the other sections of HB 381 have to do with unitization, which is a prerogative of DNR as opposed to the AOGCC. He said HB 381 says, where concessions or agreements have been reached with DNR because the leases being on state property, if there is a jurisdictional dispute which includes conservation or correlative rights, the two prime functions of the AOGCC, the AOGCC would have authority. He said in other states with subsurface mineral rights there is a continuing need to prevent waste of the reservoir and protect correlative rights. He said in all the boundaries, except for the Kenai Moose Range and the potential Northstar unit, the mineral rights are kept by the state of Alaska. He said, in the future, there are possibilities for Native ownership or federal ownership of subsurface mineral rights. He said HB 381 just makes a stronger statement about what is already in state law. Number 0400 CO-CHAIR BILL WILLIAMS made a motion to "move CSHB 381 (indiscernible) with individual recommendations." Hearing no objections CSHB 381 was moved from the House Standing Committee on Resources. GOVERNOR'S APPT. TO BOARD OF FISHERIES Number 0433 CO-CHAIR GREEN announced the next item on the agenda was the Confirmation of Grant Miller to the Board of Fisheries. Number 0460 GRANT J. MILLER, said he was 49 years old, lived in Sitka and had been a commercial fisherman for 30 years. He said his wife and two sons have been in the commercial fish business and have fished together since coming to Alaska in 1977. He said his sons grew up on the boat and the family has spent their lives fishing in Alaska and has dedicated their efforts to Alaska and its resources. MR. MILLER said he has participated in power trolling in the Southeast Alaska salmon troll fisheries since 1977. Three years ago, he began seining, currently his primary income, to obtain salmon in Southeast Alaska. He said he has experience in many different fisheries on the East Coast, participating in bottom dragging, scallop fishing, fish traps, and inshore and offshore lobster fishing. He said, in California, he fished for anchovy and herring with a power seine and began salmon trolling there. He said he herring gillnetted in California as well as herring gillnetting in Alaska from Kah Shakes to Norton Sound. He said he operated a herring bait pound in Sitka as well as longlining for Halibut. He said he currently does this with the trolling and the seining boats. Number 0590 MR. MILLER said he has a Merchant Marine license of up to 1,600 tons. He said he has spent a great deal of his life in Alaska dedicated to the resources of the state. He served on the Northern Southeast Regional Aquaculture Association Board for ten years and was president for eight years. He served on the Sitka Committee on Alcohol and Other Drugs, the Sitka Committee on Fisheries, is a member of the Seafood Producers Co-op Board of Directors and a member of United Fishermen of Alaska. He said he has an extensive background in fisheries and felt he could contribute to the decision making process. He said he fully supports the Board of Fisheries process and that is the reason why he put his name in to be on this board. He said he would like to see the process strengthened, that although it has done a great job so far, there is room for improvement. Representatives Davies and Nicholia joined the committee at 9:25 a.m. Number 0654 REPRESENTATIVE ALAN AUSTERMAN said, over the last few weeks, questions have been raised about Mr. Miller's residency status in the state of Alaska. He said people have said Mr. Miller does not own a home in Alaska, but owns a home in the state of Washington and that both of his sons graduated from high school in Washington high schools within the past few years. He asked Mr. Miller to clarify his residency. Number 0693 MR. MILLER said he has been a resident in the state of Alaska since 1984, owning two homes in the state as well as a couple of other lots. He said he owns a piece of property in Vashon, Washington which he invested in "because we have no retirement in our fishery, it seems like a good thing to do." He said his family has been in the process of building a house on his Vashon property. He said, on family vacations, they spend time in that house working on it as it is not yet finished. Number 0765 MR. MILLER said, in regards to his children, his oldest son graduated from a high school in Sitka. He said his youngest son, when he was 18 years old, chose to finish his senior year and graduate from Vashon High School in order to play baseball and receive educational options not available in Sitka. He said his youngest son did graduate from a high school in the state of Washington while he remained in Alaska. He said he dedicated his life to Alaska, its resources and its communities. He said he owns property in Alaska and pays quite a bit of property taxes in the city of Sitka. Number 0797 REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN clarified that his son graduated from a high school located in the state of Washington and then asked how many months he spent in the state of Alaska during that year. Number 0840 MR. MILLER said he spent 9.5 to 10 months in the state of Alaska. He said, during his vacation, work was done on the house and boat in the state of Washington. During that vacation, his son decided to stay and finish high school. He said his family came back to the state of Alaska to continue their life and business while his son stayed in the state of Washington because he was 18 years old and Mr. Miller said he respected his decision. He said his youngest son did join the family for the Alaskan salmon season. Number 0882 CO-CHAIR GREEN asked if he received the permanent fund dividend (PFD). Number 0890 MR. MILLER said he and his family has received PFDs since 1984. Number 0902 CO-CHAIR GREEN referred to his comment about spending 9.5 to 10 months in the state of Alaska, and asked him if this was a representative number. He asked if his absence has caused any problems with attendance to the Board of Fisheries meetings. Number 0936 MR. MILLER said his absence, over the last two years, were a little longer than normal because of bringing his sein boat south to redo the refrigeration system and, last year, to rebuild the fish hold. He said it was impossible to do those things in Sitka, as a result over two months were spent down south. The family returned to Alaska during the first part of February. Number 0977 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN said doing this boat work is standard practice for commercial fishermen because of the limited facilities in the state of Alaska. Number 0987 MR. MILLER agreed and said it depends on the work involved. He said the rebuilding of the fish hold required a great deal of fiberglass work and the spraying of foam and there was no facility for that type of work here in the state. He said he made an attempt to do some of the refrigeration work in Alaska, but was unsuccessful, so the work was done down south. Number 1022 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN said, in the past, it had been standard practice to take boats south to be worked on, but the Seward shipbuilding facility has been built up and a lot of boats are now going there to have work done. He said Southeast fishermen have a problem with the distance required to take their boats to Seward. Number 1045 CO-CHAIR GREEN referred to a recent Board of Fisheries meeting and said Mr. Miller had put a motion forward limiting power boats on the Kenai River when most of the audience had left. He asked Mr. Miller to comment on this. Number 1076 MR. MILLER said it was suggested to him, after a contentious meeting, to put a "feel good" proposal on the table so that everyone could feel good about the meeting and he did so. He said, everyone was exhausted at the end of the meeting, no one wanted to address the proposal. He said his intention of bringing the proposal to the floor was upon a suggestion and he had no idea that it would create a problem. Number 1117 CO-CHAIR GREEN asked him to describe the proposal. Number 1124 MR. MILLER said he believed it was a proposal to limit a section of the Kenai River to drift-boat-only fishing. He said there had been discussions on power boats and said the Board of Fisheries has some concern about power boats. He said the proposal wasn't discussed as to the ramifications and Mr. Miller reiterated that it was raised because it was something the entire board could agree on. CO-CHAIR GREEN asked if he was still in favor of the proposal. Number 1173 MR. MILLER said he could not say whether or not he was in favor of the proposal. He said would like to get input and discussion on the proposal and added that he did not know enough about the ramifications. Number 1182 CO-CHAIR GREEN clarified that Mr. Miller submitted this proposal and now he is not so sure he can support it. Number 1190 MR. MILLER said he submitted the proposal was because he was told it was a proposal that everyone would agree on and the board could walk away feeling good. He said he did not scrutinize it, study it, have conversations about what it might mean, or what the ramifications of the proposal might be. He said he did not propose the proposal, he only moved to bring it to the floor for reasons other than what the content of the proposal was. He said it was probably a mistake on his part being a new board member, if he had known it was going to be a contentious item he would not have done it. Number 1226 CO-CHAIR GREEN said he proposed HJR 51 in an effort to try to curtail the number of sport fishermen on the Kenai River in concern for the degradation over fishing. He asked Mr. Miller for his input on HJR 51. Number 1252 MR. MILLER said he felt the resources of this state should primarily be for the residents of this state. He said when there is an abundance of a resource, we can share that resource, but when there is a conservation problem or when the resource is limited there should be some control on the non-resident users. He said, regarding the issue of allocation, the problem comes from an expanding user group which he would identify as the guided sport fishing group because every other user group is limited in some way or another. He said the resident sport effort has remained constant over the past few years and does not seem to be the problem. The problem is the growing use of the resource by guided sport, particularly non-resident people, and without a control the state could jeopardize not only the resource but other users in the commercial fishing industry. Number 1317 CO-CHAIR GREEN said Governor Knowles' Transition Team on Fisheries has recommended that the Board of Fisheries be split in order to create a Board of Shellfish as either a subgroup or equal group to the Board of Fisheries and asked Mr. Miller if he had any feeling on whether or not this was a good idea. Number 1333 MR. MILLER said a more economical method might be used to streamline this board process to make it more efficient. He said he would like to see an improved advisory board and have the advisory board, possibly by statute, receive representation from all user groups within their areas. He said he would like to see the proposals, which come before the Board of Fisheries, go through the advisory committee process. He said those committees are in place and having them review the proposals before they go to the board would eliminate a lot of proposals or would combine proposals. He said the advisory committees can offer recommendations, which would ultimately reduce the number of proposals coming before the board in a given year. He said, when you have a situation where anyone can sit down and write a proposal or three or four or five proposals, submit those proposals without any support, you end up with a large number of proposals before the board which creates a burden. He said the Board of Fisheries is getting to the point where they are feeling this burden. Number 1402 CO-CHAIR GREEN referred to the F.I.S.H. initiative petition which had been signed and will be on the ballot and said he is concerned over the need to resort to a petition to allocate fish. He asked if it was a system failure and, if so, who failed. Number 1425 MR. MILLER said he felt it was probably as much a sign of the times as any failure on the part of the system. He said when a resource becomes limited, is reduced in any way or a user group grows, there are going to be users usurping other users to achieve a bigger piece. He said when these users are not satisfied, or don't get a bigger share through the process we have, people tend to resort to the legal system or to initiatives. He said it is his hope that the board process can be strengthened and make it work to prevent petitions, initiatives or litigation. Number 1471 CO-CHAIR GREEN said it appeared from what Mr. Miller said that if there was an allocation problem, the Board of Fisheries should handle it, rather than have the issue go to an initiative petition or to the legislature. He asked why it has taken an initiative petition to resolve this allocation issue and why the Board of Fisheries hadn't resolved this issue sooner. Number 1540 MR. MILLER said, at times when issues appear unresolvable, other approaches can be taken such as arbitration which had been previously used on this issue. He said if the involved parties could sit down and identify specific areas to address, maybe a task force could be selected, of scientists, to develop data to make a better decision. He said, it is always a difficult issue, when you come to allocation and someone has to give up something and other people don't feel that they are getting their full share. He said he does not believe the allocation issue will be resolved until the state gets control over an expanding user group. Number 1584 CO-CHAIR GREEN asked him if he would want yet another study and to fix this problem legislatively. MR. MILLER agreed that there are a lot of studies, but said studies need to have a focus and that focus might change from year to year. He said he was suggesting that if you have a scientific focus on a particular aspect of the problem then you might get an answer. He said he is not able to give a clear answer because it is not a issue which allows a simple answer. He said, through the board process, any improvement that can be achieved can come to a resolution, but reiterated that this will be a tough issue. Number 1621 REPRESENTATIVE JOHN DAVIES asked him what aspects of the board process would he want strengthened and how those aspects would assist in the allocation issues. Number 1633 MR. MILLER said he would like to strengthen the advisory committee portion of this process. He said a lot of these issues, rather than being heard before the whole board, could be resolved, or at least some consensus achieved with a majority vote coming out of each region through the advisory committee. He said most issues could be heard at this level and then the advisory committee could make their recommendations to the Board of Fisheries in order to save time, address the issues themselves and hopefully come up with a solution at that level. He said a strengthened advisory committee process would allow the Board of Fisheries to address the serious issues. Number 1675 CO-CHAIR GREEN, "is there any problem with any member of the committee for moving Mr. Miller's name on. Hearing none." CONFIRMATION OF VIRGIL L. UMPHENOUR TO THE BOARD OF FISHERIES  Number 1714 MR. VIRGIL L. UMPHENOUR said he moved to Alaska in 1971 after returning from Vietnam. He said he has been involved in hunting and fishing all of his life. He spent time up in Nome as an officer of the Alaska National Guard and was executive officer for the first scout battalion in Nome and his last assignment, before retirement, was as intelligence officer for the Scouts in the state, all the way from Ketchikan to Kotzebue and Barrow. He said he spent time in the rural areas, been a high powered rifle competitor and, as such, he has had a lot of association with sporting groups. He said he has an understanding of what the needs of the people in the state are regarding fisheries. MR. UMPHENOUR filed a limited entry permit in 1984 for a fish wheel in the upper Yukon River and in 1985 he started a small, processing business. He said he has a plant in North Pole and one in Fairbanks which does value added processing, buying fish from primarily the upper Yukon River districts. He also processes personal use and poor caught fish. He said he helped organize the Yukon River Drainage Fisheries Association and was Co-Chair until he was appointed to the Board of Fisheries two years ago. He served on the Yukon River Salmon Treaty Negotiations since 1989. He said, being on the Board of Fisheries, means you deal with a lot of contentious issues and said board members are needed who have an understanding of all the fisheries in the state, not just a regional understanding, and said this is why he thought he should remain on the Board of Fisheries. Number 1831 REPRESENTATIVE IRENE NICHOLIA said Mr. Umphenour has the backing of the sport, commercial and subsistence fishery user group. She said as a board member it is impossible to make everyone happy, but said he has worked hard to make fair decisions backed up by hours of work on his part. She asked him to explain the role of sustained yield and conservation in his decision making as a board member and how should these two management principles affect allocation of the state of Alaska's fishery resource. Number 1875 MR. UMPHENOUR said sustained yield is mandated by the constitution of the state of Alaska. He said the delegates spend a lot of time on this subject and said that, sometimes, sustained yield can be defined scientifically such as with timber or agricultural resources. He said fish and game resources are much harder to define and said there is no definition in the state constitution regarding sustained yield, so he described his definition of sustained yield in fisheries as being enough fish for return to the spawning grounds, this definition adheres mostly to salmon, so that after those fish spawn the life cycle will produce enough fish so that all consumptive human users will get their average historical share of those fish, plus enough fish on the spawning grounds to perpetuate fish runs into the future. Number 1949 MR. UMPHENOUR said the state needs to conserve the resource and said conservation fits in with the sustained yield part of his answer. He said, as a Board of Fisheries member, you must decide what is the most important; conservation of the resource or consumptive uses. He said, at times, you are going to have to cut the consumptive uses and the Board of Fisheries has stopped consumptive uses to conserve the resource. He said the sustained yield and the conservation aspect work hand in hand. Number 1987 CO-CHAIR GREEN asked him if there was enough escapement into the various rivers and tributaries for sport fishing and renewal of the resource or would an imposition be required on commercial fishermen. Number 2002 MR. UMPHENOUR said no, he did not say that. He said, when he referred to consumptive users, he meant commercial fishing, personal use fishing, sport fishing and subsistence use fishing. He said, a lot of times, the personal use, sport and subsistence fishing is one and the same. He said a lot of people feed their family using sport fish equipment and under a sport fish license. He said, when we are conserving the resource and identifying the priorities in allocation, the sport fish and the commercial fish allocation are on equal footings. He said, in his mind the personal use fish would come next with the subsistence fish having the highest priority of all. Number 2046 CO-CHAIR GREEN said there is a conflict occurring between the Alaska constitution and the federal government on allocation and asked if he had an opinion on this issue. Number 2057 MR. UMPHENOUR said the main controversy is whether or not rural residents should have priority over urban residents. He said both the Board of Fisheries and the Board of Game have made seasons in areas, at times when it would be very difficult for urban people to participate. He said most people are not going to spend a thousand dollars to catch a few salmon. He said, generally, he does not favor federal management of the state's resources and said the state can do other things such as setting up seasons and bag limits which will give the rural people some type of preference. Number 2129 CO-CHAIR GREEN said the state of Alaska has had a problem with allocation for a number of years and asked him if he had a suggestion as to why the state needed to resort to a petition or legislative impetus because the problem could not be resolved, as it should be, by the Board of Fisheries. Number 2162 MR. UMPHENOUR said the problem of allocation can be resolved by the Board of Fisheries. He said one of the problems the Board of Fisheries had was that the people, who do not have a lot of money, do not get as much input into the process as the people who have a lot of money. He said the wealthier interests have paid attorneys and paid lobbyist who work full time and lobby very heavily at board meetings. He said the people who are just trying to get fish to feed their family do not have that money, cannot travel great distances and spend up to 15 days at meetings. He said because of the system, many times of the subsistence users and sport users are at a definite disadvantage and so it is incumbent on the board members to try to see through to the issues. MR. UMPHENOUR said some of the organizations go so far as to hire the head of the School of Fisheries in the state of Washington as well as professors and attorneys from the state of Washington to lobby their interest. He said scientific reports and all types of things are brought forth to confuse the board members. He said a board member has to see through the system to see what money buys and see what the credibility is. Number 2339 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN said there is a perceived notion that Mr. Umphenour has a strong bias in reference to Area M and the Yukon Kuskokwim delta. In the House Special Committee on Fisheries, Mr. Umphenour made a reference to Colonel Glass's statement, from the Department of Public safety, that there was a lot of chum chucking going on in the Area M fisheries. Since then Representative Austerman read some articles, which had interviews with Colonel Glass in reference to the investigation of the chum chucking in the Area M, where they could not prove that any chum chucking had occurred. He said maybe one or two cases were found where fish were thrown overboard, but the investigation did not find anything. He asked Mr. Umphenhour to clarify the statement he made at the previous meeting. Number 2387 MR. UMPHENOUR said Colonel Glass, in his report, had said that chum salmon were frequently, "released," and he reported this to the Board of Fisheries and its members. Colonel Glass said there was no way to know whether the fish lived or died. He said, when fish are caught in a gillnet, the odds of them surviving are 1 percent. When the fish are caught in a purse seine and hauled up on deck, then grabbed by the tail and hauled overboard the fish survival rate is probably less than 10 percent. He said, when the state troopers conducted their investigation in the south peninsula fishery last year, they ran their regular trooper vessels and compared this situation with parking a state trooper car with its big lights next to a stop sign to see how many people will run the stop sign. He said fishermen from Area M are sick of some fishermen throwing hundreds of thousands of chums overboard. He said he could supply the committee with a letter that estimates that, in 1994, fishermen chucked 2 million chums overboard. Number 2359 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES referred to the rural versus urban issue and said that a majority of subsistence users are in the rural areas. He asked if there was anyway to discuss this issue without using strict urban versus rural geographic boundaries. Number 2384 MR. UMPHENOUR said the Tier 2 system gives him a great amount of problems, because it is easily superseded by stretching the truth when filling out the application system such as for caribou hunting in Unit 13. He said it is really hard to answer this question because of his association with a large number of people from rural areas and said the resource can only take so much pressure. Number 2424 MR. UMPHENOUR said at the Board of Game meeting, earlier this month in Fairbanks, they made fee proposals and department proposals relating to moose hunting in the middle Yukon area. He said you need to declare whether you are going to be a general hunter, a sport hunter or a subsistence hunter. If you were going to be a sport hunter then there were going to be (indiscernible) restrictions on you, if you were going to be a subsistence hunter then other restrictions were placed on you and said this seemed to be one of the best ways to solve the problem in that area. He said, in regards to the entire state... TAPE 96-61, SIDE B Number 0000 MR. UMPHENOUR, "it is going to be up to the Board of Fisheries and the Board of Game to decide." Number 0012 REPRESENTATIVE DON LONG referred to the comment that he would like to see the state manage its wildlife fish resources and said it appeared to him that to equally distribute fisheries throughout the state a constitutional amendment would be needed. Number 0037 MR. UMPHENOUR said he did not think a constitutional amendment was needed to distribute the fisheries in a fair manner. He said, in recent years, the fish prices have dramatically dropped and a lot of commercial fishermen have had to catch two or three times as much fish to maintain their lifestyle and said the resource cannot handle that. He said the biggest problem is that the fish are not marketed properly. He said chum and pink salmon should be incorporated into the federal supply system. Number 0161 REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA asked him to explain his action on the crab fishery in Area M. Number 0168 MR. UMPHENOUR said the Board of Fisheries identified statewide crab fishing. He said there were experimental deep water fisheries occurring in the peninsula, in the Aleutian Islands areas, and the Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADFG) wanted to put a crab pot limit so that a vessel would only have so many pots. He said the fear was that those large vessels, primarily from Washington state area, have over a thousand pots as the vessels have in the king crab fishery off Adak and the there was a need to prevent huge harvesting in order to gather scientific data and prevent over fishing in those crab fisheries. He mentioned that crab fisheries were closed all over the state. MR. UMPHENOUR said most of the smaller vessel fishermen, who tend to be from Kodiak and Area M, are limit seiner type of vessels, up to 58 feet long. He said these vessels cannot use these large 7 by 7 pots, their hydraulic gear won't lift them because they are longlined which means a whole bunch of pots are put on one big line because they might be fishing in 600 fathoms of water. When asking the ADFG the catch differences between the large pots and the smaller pots such as the limit seiners could use, the ADFG said the smaller pots have an average catch of 12 to 15 crabs per pot, in the large pots they can catch 70 to 80 crabs per pot. He said three or four hours was spent trying to figure out this problem, and the Department gave a definition of a small pot and a large pot and he had discussions with seiners who said to use a definition of a pot that is five feet square. He said he amended the proposal that the Department put in, so that the fishermen using the small pots in Area M would get twice as many pots as the large pot people. Number 0292 CO-CHAIR GREEN referred to HJR 51 which would limit the number of sport guide fishing licenses issued in the Kenai River and asked him if this resolution had the potential to reduce the number of guides on rivers to prevent a potential reduction in habitat. Number 0320 MR. UMPHENOUR said he has been involved quite heavily in this issue and clarified that he is a hunting guide. He said in discussions with sport fish guides across the state the easiest way to resolve the problem would be to pass a statute similar to the statute pertaining to the experience requirements of registered hunting guides. He said, before a person is eligible to take the test to become a registered hunting guide, they have to have five years of hunting experience in the state of Alaska. He said he has talked with the Attorney General's office about this issue and said a statute would prevent non-residents from coming to Alaska and declaring themselves a sport fish guide. He said there are ethics issues involved with these non-residents starting up guiding operations in the state. He said the statute proposal he has suggested would not stop a person if they really wanted to move to Alaska and become a sport fish guide. He said this proposal should not be grandfathered in, if they don't have the five years experience, tough luck, they can't guide in the state. Number 0381 MR. UMPHENOUR said he has a problem with alien sport fish guides and lodgers. He said there are at least 12 to 15 alien sport fish lodges in the upper Susitna system and there was a problem, the year before last, of a sport fish guide from the Netherlands who ended up drowning. He said this issue is one of safety and conservation. He said placing a moratorium or totally limiting new sport fish guides denies residents in the state from being able to be a guide. Number 0435 CO-CHAIR GREEN said, "Is there any objection, from the committee, of moving Mr. Umphenour's nomination. Thank you very much."  CONFIRMATION OF DAN KELLY COFFEY TO THE BOARD OF FISHERIES  MR. COFFEY said he is a 49 year Alaska resident with three young sons who live with him in Anchorage. He is an attorney and a businessman. Over the years he has been both a commercial and a sport fisherman. He said his commercial interest started in the late 1960s and continued until the late 1980s. He said on his last venture in commercial fishing he owned an 80 foot halibut longline vessel and fished out of Kodiak. Number 0537 MR. COFFEY said, in his law practice, he has represented commercial fisherman, commercial fish processors as well as sport fishing interests. This experience relates to crabbing, to shore fisheries, to lease permits and to game infractions. He served on previous boards including the Alaska Housing Finance Corporation for three years, recently he was Vice-Chair on the Governor's Task Force for Charitable Gaming and served on the Alaska State Bar Association Peer Arbitration Panel for about 12 years. Number 0599 MR. COFFEY said he brings to the Board of Fisheries the following attributes, in his 20 years as an attorney, he has learned how to handle volumes of paperwork, deal with difficult issues and to make decisions. He said he is willing to work very hard on the board and said anyone, who has seen the last three board meetings, would attest to his willingness to work even if they have not agreed with the decisions he has made. He said he has read the constitution on fisheries, read the statutes, the regulations, the case law and everything he could to make himself prepared to be a board member. He said he did this because some of the other board members have much greater experience in fisheries than he has. He wanted to stress his ability to listen and his long-term and abiding interest in Alaska's welfare. He has lived in Alaska all of his life and intends to live here the rest of his life, raising his family. He said he believes it is crucial that all fisheries remain viable including sport, subsistence, commercial, personal use, et cetera. He said he is not afraid to make decisions and he said the Board of Fisheries is faced with tough decisions which can be unpleasant, but this is the duty of the board and he is not afraid to make those decisions. MR. COFFEY said, when Governor Knowles asked him to serve, he was asked to try to do the best he could to make the board process work and to strengthen the board. He said he would adhere to that request and said he was here to tell the committee that he will do this. Number 0613 CO-CHAIR BILL WILLIAMS said he served on the board of F.I.S.H., Incorporated which sponsored the initiative to increase the allocation of salmon to sport fishermen. He said Mr. Coffey's resume states, "I have no preconceived notions about what should or should not be done." and the resume also states, "I do not represent any special interests." He asked Mr. Coffey to explain exactly how he divested himself from the preconceived notion that sport fishermen should have an increased allocation of salmon prior to accepting the position on the Board of Fisheries. Number 0640 MR. COFFEY said, when he put in his name for the Board of Fisheries, he resigned from the board of F.I.S.H. in December of 1995, turning over all the books and records sometime in January of 1996. He said it was brought to his attention that he had remained as the registered agent, the person who receives the official process if the board of F.I.S.H. was sued, and said he immediately took steps to correct that situation. He the F.I.S.H. Initiative was predicated on a sense of frustration that the Board of Fisheries process was not working in a proper manner and was not addressing issues between sport and commercial fisherman. He said the initiative was a desire to rectify, what was deemed, a short fall of the Board of Fisheries. He said when he became involved with the Board of Fisheries, and saw the nature of the responsibilities which the board had, the wealth of information and the deeply divided nature of the people who are seeking to use the resource, he recognized the need to make decisions based on the criteria which the Board of Fisheries has established over a long period of time. Number 0754 MR. COFFEY cited an example, in 1977, where the Board of Fisheries adopted a policy which became regulation, in 1981, called the Upper Cook Inlet Salmon Management Plan. He said that plan, basically, divides the fishery into time and species segments. He said it led to the frustration felt by the board of F.I.S.H., expressed in their initiative as part of the question of how the Board of Fisheries process has either worked or failed to work. He said, to this day, despite some efforts at this meeting in February, some of the sub-issues, on that plan which has been in effect for 18 years, have still not been addressed. He said these issues remain for the Board of Fisheries to resolve. He said the F.I.S.H. initiative was done to force compliance and resolve. MR. COFFEY said, from his current perspective, it is too bad that an initiative was resorted to, but at the time it was felt to be an appropriate way to resolve the issues. He said the F.I.S.H. initiative was intiated around the time the Governor's Task Force was appointed to mediate the Board of Fisheries process. He said, to a small degree, he participated in that mediation process. He found many of the participants in the process where very willing to sit down and discuss their differences, but that some were absolutely adamant that there was nothing to discuss and nothing to do. He viewed the intransigence, of some people, as unfortunate in the circumstances and that it left the Board of Fisheries to make decisions which might be best left to those who participate in the fishery. He said if those people are unwilling to come to the table and negotiate, then the Board of Fisheries will have to make those decisions. Number 0792 CO-CHAIR WILLIAMS said he did not hear the answer of how he divested himself from the initiative, but said he would not go into that further. He said it appears that Mr. Coffey had a long term relationship with Bob Penney, who paid for the expenses of the F.I.S.H. initiative, and asked him to comment on this relationship and how he disclosed this during the ethics disclosure for the Board of Fisheries. Number 0811 MR. COFFEY said he has known Mr. Penney for a long time, somewhere around 18 to 22 years. He said, two or three years ago, he was a guest at his place and had gone fishing with him on the Kenai River. He said he saw Mr. Penney at political functions over the years, been to his home in Anchorage three or four times mostly at political fundraisers. Number 0891 MR. COFFEY said he has done legal work for the sport fishing caucus which was charged with an Alaska Public Office Commission (APOC) violation in 1994. He said Bob Penney, Phil Cutler, Bruce Knowles were all active in that caucus and said that as he represented the sport fishing caucus, he represented those members as well. He said he believed this matter was concluded in 1995, but when this issue was revived, in 1996, he received a letter from the APOC and he turned the matter over to another attorney. He said he has not represented Mr. Penney personally, but did some legal research for a company at the request of his son, Henry Penney, in 1995 relating to APOC matters. Number 0907 CO-CHAIR WILLIAMS asked him how he felt about the subsistence issue and how it affects the Area M fisheries and how would he like to see it resolved. Number 0927 MR. COFFEY said he would like to see it end. He said the subsistence issue is very divisive to Alaskans and is leading to something which Alaska wanted to avoid. He said upon statehood we wanted state control over natural resources. He said we are losing that control to the federal government. He said the federal government is taking over subsistence isues all over the state as well as on its own lands. He said people, who have more hours wrestling with this issue, have not come up with a solution. He said, he would hope, a solution could be derived which would preserve the subsistence lifestyle with those who are dependent on subsistence, but said he does not know how to do this. MR. COFFEY said Lieutenant Governor Ulmer and Governor Knowles have an extensive proposal which was the result of compromise by all involved parties. He said it has been his experience as a lawyer that if you can get all the involved parties to give a little you can reach a decision. He said, to the extent that he understands it, that is the situation and he supports what they are trying to do. CO-CHAIR WILLIAMS asked how he felt about the Area M fisheries which is supposedly affecting subsistence. MR. COFFEY said the Board of Fisheries was told that a judge in Nome had closed a fishery and the rest of the board and the Attorney General's office felt the board needed to have a meeting in response to the judge's decision. He said the board felt they should limit themselves to what they undertook and took limited testimony, allowed written comments, comments from the advisory committees and reports from the staff. Upon reading that information, the board was asked to meet for two to three days, two weeks ago, and deliberate. MR. COFFEY said questions needed to be resolved such as whether or not the Area M fishery should be opened and whether or not Judge Erlich's injunction, closing that entire fishery, should continue. Another question was whether or not the chum salmon moving through Area M were of such quantity and so closely related to the chum salmon in Norton Sound that you could draw a direct correlation between what was going on in Area M and what may or may not happen in Norton Sound. He said the two pieces of scientific evidence were genetic and tagging studies and the evidence indicated to four of the six board members, including him, that the affect of the Area M fishery on Nome was around 5 percent. MR. COFFEY said, on the basis of that fact, it seemed inappropriate to close an entire fishery down, impacting several hundred families in the Aleutian area, to achieve a possible 5 percent gain in chum salmon escapement in Norton Sound. He said this fact plus the fact that the last couple of years have seen great improvements in the quantity of chum salmon in Norton Sound and this years prediction of an average return, led him to conclude that it would be wise to have the fishery in June in Area M and it would be imprudent to take the steps to satisfy the judge so that the injunction could be lifted. Number 1114 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES referred to the F.I.S.H. initiative, and asked whether or not he believed that the frustration leading to the initiative was a result of the failure of the Board of Fisheries to act or make "the wrong decision" in regard to allocation. MR. COFFEY said it was his belief that the initiative was a result of a failure on the part of the Board of Fisheries to act and that the current board has addressed and will continue to address the issues that "arise up from under its own plan." Number 1202 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked him what he proposed to change in the Board of Fisheries process to address those issues. Number 1217 MR. COFFEY said, when he was put on the Board of Fisheries, the first thing the board did, after listening to public testimony, was to develop a set of guiding principles and criteria which will determine how the board is going to make decisions. He said the board spent a day and a half going over these principles and adopted seven guiding principles, which will be adopted into regulation, setting forth the guidelines by which the Board of Fisheries address these issues. He said the board went from what the board calls the "umbrella plan" which is the 1977, 1981 Upper Cook Inlet Salmon Management Plan and is in the process of adopting "subplans" which deal with each species in the major plan. MR. COFFEY said the major plan divides the season before July 1, and after August 15, and said the before and after dates are reserved, primarily, for sport fisherman and the middle period is reserved, primarily, for commercial fishermen. He said, within those plans, there are instructions to minimize the catch of king salmon during the commercial period. He said the board needs to develop plans for each one of those subsets and the board is currently in the process of doing that. He said once those plans are in place with the guiding principles then there will be instructions for this Board of Fisheries and any board which comes along in the future regarding difficult allocation issues. MR. COFFEY said the fisheries are fully utilized, particularly in Cook Inlet, and there is a growing sport and recreational demand. He said the Board of Fisheries does not take these facts into consideration, to abdicated the decision making process. He said the guiding principles will help the board to consistently take the facts, which generally everyone agrees on, and apply them in clearly defined ways and then present the decision to the public. Number 1372 CO-CHAIR GREEN asked for clarification that this issue was being addressed on a single species problem, rather than dealing with the issue on a mixed stocks basis. Number 1388 MR. COFFEY said the board has a mixed stock policy and said all of the salmon fisheries are, to some degree, mixed stock because the salmon all return at relatively the same time. He said the board is trying to get away from this strong stock management which completely ignores weak stocks to the detriment of all stock. He said, in Cook Inlet, the board has been driven by the Kenai sockeye which has produced an extremely valuable fishery worth preserving and protecting. He said, while the board is working on this issue, they must also recognize that as a result of some of the past policies the board almost ruined commercial fisheries in the northern district. Only recently, in the Susistina River, has the sockeye escapement been met. He said the board has no idea what is happening to northern district coho, chum or pink salmon stocks and attention must be paid to these less strong fish stocks. He questioned what burdens should be placed on what fishermen at what time to insure the protection and preservation of their industry, while preserving and protecting the weaker stocks in different districts. He said these are not easy issues, but they are issues that need to be resolved through the Board of Fisheries process. Number 1491 CO-CHAIR GREEN asked if there will be a need for further studies when examining these weaker stocks. Number 1516 MR. COFFEY said it depends on the fishery. He said Cook Inlet, particularly the Kenai River, has plenty of data to make decisions. The biologists can tell the board where the fish runs are and provide 20 years of run timing. He said the Area M and the Yukon Kuskokwim district only have generalized information regarding the salmon fisheries. He said the crab fishery in the Bering Sea, primarily Bristol Bay, has tons of data. He said in western Alaska there is an absence of data. He said some fisheries have plenty of data and the board doesn't need any more than the ongoing seasonal information and said other fisheries could use a lot more data to assist the board in making decisions. Number 1584 CO-CHAIR WILLIAMS clarified that Mr. Coffey believes sport fishing is growing in Alaska and asked how many sport fishermen are Alaskan residents and how many are non-residents. He asked where this growth was occurring and how he felt about resident versus non- resident fishermen. Number 1625 MR. COFFEY said he believes that Alaskans should have first opportunity at their fish. He said the data that was presented to the Board of Fisheries indicated two things; one that there is an absolute growing population of non-resident sport fishermen in Alaska, while the number of licenses by Alaskan residents is growing proportional to the population. He believed that the overall level of participation by residents is greater. He said the terms sport and personal use fishery can be interchanged, he asked if a personal use dip net fishery on the Kenai was a sport license or a subsistence license and said these uses are difficult to put into categories. MR. COFFEY said he believed that the sport fishery is growing, primarily in the non-resident population and that the resident sport fishery, if you combine it with the personal use, is certainly growing. Number 1705 CO-CHAIR WILLIAMS clarified that he served on the board of F.I.S.H., responsible for the F.I.S.H. initiative to increase the number of salmon to sport fishermen. He asked how that initiative would affect the commercial fishermen and other fisheries throughout Alaska, Southeast fisheries in particular. Number 1745 MR. COFFEY said he could not answer this question with great specificity. He said the F.I.S.H. initiative was intended to establish a guideline for board decisions which would recognize that sport fishing needs and entitled the sport fishery to a portion of the fish. He said the initiative was drafted in a way to have statewide application, because you are not allowed to draft an initiative that is regional. He said the initiative was primarily directed at the Cook Inlet, at the perceived misallocation of fish there. He said he would not know the affect of the initiative on Southeast, but the initiative would have statewide application and a direct affect on fisheries throughout the state where there is a sport and commercial conflict. Number 1810 CO-CHAIR WILLIAMS clarified that the initiative would increase the sport fisheries up to 5 percent and asked what this increase would mean, for example, to the king salmon fishery in Southeast. Number 1852 MR. COFFEY said the affect would depend on the stock that you are addressing. He said the initiative is not meant to replace conservation needs or treaty needs, and suggested that Southeast received an allocation of 100,000 king salmon, theoretically, 5,000 of those would be allocated to sport fishing concerns. Number 1913 CO-CHAIR GREEN referred to the ongoing problem of allocation between sport and commercial fisheries and asked him to give his opinion on HJR 51, "which limit the number of sportguide licenses issued for the Kenai area..what is your opinion of that...is that ...you think a practical solution for habitat, perhaps for river bank erosions and things like that." Number 1978 MR. COFFEY said there are a lot of tools in the bag and this is one such tool. He said HJR 51, as described, is appropriate, but he wouldn't just limit the resolution to the Kenai River. He said the state needs to control sport fish guides. The problem of controlling guiding has to do with the definition. He said the definition of commercial fishermen, in statute, specifically excludes guided sport. So any legislation that regulates sport fish guides by limited entry, through the Board of Fisheries, through statute or by some other manner is appropriate. He said he has not read HJR 51, but he supports the concept. Number 2042 CO-CHAIR GREEN asked if he felt certain rivers should have limited access because, even if the west side of Cook Inlet could be opened to relieve pressure, the increasing number of sport fish licenses would eventually lead to a situation similar to the current situation. He asked if there was a legal ability or desire for limited access, red or blue tags for example, and would it be a practical situation. Number 2096 MR. COFFEY said all of those alternatives should be explored. He said there is intensified pressure on the salmon milling and spawning grounds. He said, he has a belief, that once those creatures make it past the miles of net and the sport fishing lures, the salmon ought to be free to spawn. He said there should not be damage to the salmon habitat, or high power boats running up and down the rivers, no fishing should be allowed on spawning beds, non-resident and aliens should not be able to fish without knowledge or respect for the resources and regulations. He said every member of the Board of Fisheries supports those types of things and searchs for ways to accomplish them, but the Board of Fisheries has found themselves hamstrung. Number 2189 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked him, with all the commitments he had, how he had time to be on the Board of Fisheries. He said he appreciated the contributions that people on the Board of Fisheries make in terms of time and effort. Number 2223 MR. COFFEY said he works hard, makes the time and allocates it appropriately. He said there are people who are involved in their community and the state to a degree which makes the opinion they have not as important as the commitment they have made. He said he feels he has to be an active participant in his state's business and to make a difference in the place where he lives. Number 2332 REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA referred to Genetic Stock Investigation (GSI) studies and said the ADFG is still conducting GSI studies on salmon stocks in Alaska which is important when conducting a mixed stock fishery and asked what his position was when making allocation decisions in a mixed stock fishery where one or more of the river systems was facing conservation problems and GSI information is not yet complete. She asked him how he would make allocation decisions in this case and how the burden of conservation would be spread fairly among mixed stock fisheries and terminal stream users in the absence of adequate GSI information. Number 2402 MR. COFFEY said the mixed stock policy requires that the burden of conservation be shared when there are conservation concerns. He said when the case of the Area M fishery was decided, in Judge Erlich's decision, the Board of Fisheries looked at the burden of conservation imposed, both on the people who lived in the Norton Sound area, particularly the Nome subdistrict and the Golovin subdistricts, and the burden imposed on the Area M fishermen because Area M is a mixed stock fishery. MR. COFFEY said the GSI data, one of two scientific studies... TAPE 96-62, SIDE A Number 0000 MR. COFFEY...the Yukon River or Norton Sound and said there were a large number of places where the salmon were going. He said the GSI studies told the board that some 60 percent of those fish were bound for four huge areas. He said, if this is true, how big is Norton Sound relative to the Kuskokwim relative to the Yukon relative to Bristol Bay and said, without being scientifically certain, decisions can be based on the GSI studies. He said calculations can be made, concluding that 5 percent to 10 percent of the fish are bound for Norton Sound. MR. COFFEY said, based on this calculation, the Nome subdistrict is one of six subdistricts in Norton Sound including Unalakleet, St. Michael, Shatoolik, Stevens Village and those places are getting sufficient chum salmon, but Nome is not getting enough chum. He questioned if it was because of an intercept from Area M or if it was caused from something else. He said the book, Pacific Salmon, says that certainly some of the migratory routes of the salmon bound for Norton Sound come through Area M, but a large part of the salmon migrate from western Alaska toward Russia and Japan and never go to Norton Sound. He said when you get all the data, including the tagging study, you derive a decision based on that data. MR. COFFEY said the Nome River is not producing properly and has conservation problems in eight rivers in the Nome and Golovin District. In four of those rivers have made their escapement goal in the last two years and three of those rivers have admitted conservation concerns. He said the Nome district continues to allow subsistence fishing to occur. He said, when everything is balanced out, the Board of Fisheries decision allowed the Area M fishery to open. Number 0258 MR. COFFEY said, in 1997, Area M comes up in its regular cycle and further GSI studies will be available to allow the Board of Fisheries to treat the issue with the full scope that it deserves, rather than being forced to respond because some judge in Nome closed an entire fishery. Number 0294 REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA said there should be subsistence fishing due to the rural location and the expense of food. She said if four out of eight rivers are having problems in the Norton Sound area and asked about a reduction in the harvested amount. Number 0341 MR. COFFEY said he disagreed that these rivers were in deep trouble. He said biologist, using highly inaccurate aerial surveys, concluded that the rivers did not meet their escapement goal. He said questions have been raised about these conclusions. He said the only proposal made, by John White, was to reduce the chum cap from 700,000 to 500,000 and given the management practices of the ADFG would result in a catch of chum in the range of 400,000 because of the conservative management policy. He said the last three years resulted in a chum catch of less than 600,000 and said it was unclear whether reducing the cap would have improved the escapement into Norton Sound, specifically into those rivers. He said if he believed there were conservation concerns to the point where shutting down a fishery would result in the recovery of another fishery, then he would be constitutionally and statutorily bound to shut down that other fishery. He said he did not believe this was the case when he reviewed the Area M and Norton Sound evidence. Number 0459 MR. COFFEY said the amount of subsistence fish for Norton Sound, 22,000 chums, set in 1993 by the Board of Fisheries was met in 1994 and doubled in 1995. He said the subsistence needs for Norton Sound chum salmon were met. Number 0493 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN referred to the statements Mr. Coffey made about fisheries and by-catch, he referred to an article he read about the king by-catch by the troll fleet out in the Bering Sea where, in 1995, the figures were 19,000 plus king salmon caught and, in 1996, there were over 43,000 king salmon caught by the draggers and asked him if the Board of Fisheries looked at the numbers of the drag fleet. Number 0543 MR. COFFEY said they do, and said he specifically asked a question about the troll by-catch of salmon bound for Norton Sound. He said he was told that, and said he was unclear of the year, in 1993 there were substantial amounts of fish which caused concern in the North Pacific Fisheries Council circles and they took steps to reduce the by-catch. He was told that the troll by-catch was reduced. He said the Board of Fisheries needs to take into consideration all of those things such as high seas intercept, road systems which follow the river and lack of enforcement which would affect the escapement goal. He said the Board of Fisheries meeting was designed to see if the Area M fishery would be opened at all. He said the Board of Fisheries operates a three year cycle and said Area M has been considered every six months since 1986. Number 0640 CO-CHAIR GREEN said he would now go to public testimony. CHRIS PERRY testified next via teleconference from Homer in opposition to the appointment of Mr. Coffey and Mr. Umphenour to the Board of Fisheries. He said he is concerned about unbiased votes, that the issue is management of a resource rather than allocation of fish to sport or commercial fishermen. He expressed concern that the resource be put before personal interest. He said he his primarily concerned about the Cook Inlet area, but said this concern applies to other areas of the state. MR. PERRY said he did not understand how Mr. Coffey could have supported the F.I.S.H. initiative as a management tool for a state resource and how Mr. Coffey could now become a voting member on the Board of Fisheries. He said the appointments were untimely considering the issues raised at the last Board of Fisheries meeting. He said he was opposed to the votes cast at these meetings. Number 0781 MR. PERRY referred to a comment made by Mr. Umphenour relating to aliens fishing in our streams and said he would consider a paying or non-paying tourist or sport user from the Lower 48 as an alien user of Alaskan resources. He did not feel that the state resources should be allocated towards the use by residents of the Lower 48, either through sport or guided sport use. He said money towards these sport fish coalitions has come from other areas besides the local area which is affected. He said on the East Coast many fisheries were shut down because of sport fish coalitions paid for by money from other areas of the country. Number 0850 ART NELSON, Fisheries Biologist, Bering Sea Fishermen Association, testified next via teleconference from Anchorage. He said his association represent commercial fishermen from Bristol Bay to the Yukon Kuskokwim delta, Norton Sound and Kotzebue Sound. He said the board of directors met last night and unanimously voted to support the confirmation of Mr. Umphenour to the Board of Fisheries. Mr. Umphenour fairly represents fisheries all across Alaska, is one of the hardest working members on the Board of Fisheries and makes a fair and equitable decision regarding each fishery. Mr. Umphenour understands the small boat fisheries of the Yukon Kuskokwim region and the importance to their rural economies and understands the importance of subsistence and larger commercial fisheries. Number 0928 ROBERT SUNDOWN, Fisheries Biologist, Association of Village Council Presidents, testified next via teleconference from Bethel. He said ABCT, Incorporated serves 54 Yukon delta villages. He said he wanted to voice his support for the appointment of Mr. Umphenour to the Board of Fisheries because of his involvement in communities and various fisheries throughout the Yukon and the Fairbanks region. Mr. Umphenour has his own business, supports the economy of both the Fairbanks and the Yukon region and is a hard working Board of Fisheries member. He continued by saying that Mr. Umphenour is knowledgeable of the issues, is an ardent supporter of the state constitution requiring sustained yield and is a fighter for the subsistence mandate as dictated by state laws. MR. SUNDOWN said he wanted to oppose the appointment of Mr. Coffey. He said Mr. Coffey has made some erroneous decisions regarding the chum cap. He referred to Mr. Coffey's testimony about the 5 percent chum return to Norton Sound and Mr. Sundown said Mr. Coffey got that information erroneously from the Doug Acker's (ph.) Harvestry Study. He said this study was completely withdraw by the ADFG for the Board of Fisheries meeting and added that Mr. Coffey knew that this information was withdrawn from consideration. Mr. Sundown said that Mr. Coffey has ignored the state constitution requiring sustained yield, he has ignored the state law requiring subsistence priority and he has ignored the fact that Norton Sound stocks are completely in trouble. He referred to Mr. Coffey's testimony where he explained the issue was not due to biological problems within the Norton stocks and Mr. Sundown. He said the ADFG has defined conservation stocks as a chronic inability to make escapement despite the (indiscernible) management action. He said those are the reasons why he opposes the appointment of Mr. Coffey to the Board of Fisheries. Number 1089 MYRON NANENG, President, Association of Village Council Presidents, testified next via teleconference from Bethel. He said the association represents 56 villages on the Yukon Kuskokwim delta and the association supports the appointment of Mr. Umphenour to the Board of Fisheries. He said Mr. Umphenour has shown concern for the resource, sustained yield and his record on the Board of Fisheries speaks for itself. Number 1133 MR. NANENG said the association opposed the appointment of Mr. Coffey. He referred to Mr. Coffey's statement about rivers meeting their escapement goal of stocks from last year and the year before, or for four years prior to that, and asked the committee to remember 1993 when fisheries were closed on the Yukon, Kuskokwim, as well as the Norton Sound for the last ten years in some of the streams. Mr. Coffey's explanations made it sound like 300 commercial fishermen in Area M are more important than the 30,000 citizens in the Yukon Kuskokwim delta. He said of those 300 fishermen almost half of them are non-residents of Alaska. Number 1180 MR. NANENG said if the F.I.S.H. initiative passes, the only alternative that the association has is to look at getting an Endangered Species status for some of the stocks that have not been showing up on some of the river systems in Norton Sound. He said he would not be surprised if the fisheries are closed on the Yukon or Kuskokwim and said the blame for this can be placed on special interest decisions. Number 1201 JACOB OLANNA, SR., Kawerak, Incorporated, testified next via teleconference from Nome. He said Kawerak represents 20 villages in the region and supports the appointment of Mr. Umphenour to the Board of Fisheries because of his support of subsistence issues and the region's chum fishery. He said Kawerak opposes the appointment of Mr. Coffey to the Board of Fisheries because recently he wrote findings which stated that both fisheries, Area M and Norton Sound, were important to the economy of their respective region, but that due to the size and composition the Area M fishery it was more important to the economy of the state. He said it is difficult to convince someone in Nuck, who has a fishing cap, that their fishery is less important and it is for this reason that Kawerak opposes the appointment of Mr. Coffey. Number 1287 ROY ASHENFELTER, Kawerak, testified next via teleconference from Nome. He said he was a subsistence fisherman from Fish River and has attended the Board of Fisheries meetings several times over the past three years as a advisory committee member and would personally like to support Mr. Umphenour. He said Mr. Umphenour is candid and straightforward and supports the conservation of sustained yield and backs up this support by asking the Board of Fisheries to reduce the chum cap to try to limit, but not stop, the Area M fishery while Norton Sound continues to have their fishery closed. Number 1333 MR. ASHENFELTER said he opposed the confirmation of Mr. Coffey. He referred to Mr. Coffey's testimony which said that several fisheries in Norton Sound have met escapement goals and Mr. Ashenfelter said the escapement goals might have been met, but said the rivers are closed to fishing until the fish are in the river. He said Norton Sound is two to three weeks behind in fishing and said Area M fished for 18 days straight without any closed fishing. He said, in certain rivers, fisheries have been closed for eight years and said there is still conservation and sustained yield. He concluded that Norton Sound only wants a fair, equitable opportunity to fish. Number 1374 JACOB AHWINONA, Kawerak, subsistence fisherman and (indiscernible), testified next via teleconference from Nome. He said he supported the appointment of Mr. Umphenour to the Board of Fisheries because of his support for Norton Sound and the proposed chum cap for Area M. Number 1432 MR. AHWINONA said he opposed the appointment of Mr. Coffey to the Board of Fisheries because of his lack of support for Norton Sound. He said he did not believe that the salmon went to Japan, Russia and then to Norton Sound. Number 1477 JOHN CHILDS, commercial fisherman and sports fishing guide, testified next via teleconference from Fairbanks. He supported the appointment of Mr. Umphenour to the Board of Fisheries because he did a good job and represented interior Alaska. He said Mr. Umphenour's experience as a commercial fisherman and fish processor gives him the knowledge to make informed decisions concerning the management of fish. BILL HENRY testified next via teleconference from Fairbanks and supported the appointment of Mr. Umphenour to the Board of Fisheries. He asked the committee to look at Mr. Umphenour's record. Number 1536 GARY HULL, Sports Fish Guide, testified next via teleconference from Kenai and supported both the appointments of Mr. Coffey and Mr. Umphenour to the Board of Fisheries. He said their attitude and fairness to sport and commercial fishing interests is refreshing. He said, in the past, the Board of Fisheries has had too much commercial interest and it is time to level the playing field. He asked the committee to not hold being a lawyer against Mr. Coffey and said the decisions he made were not made alone. Number 1571 TYLAND VAN LIER, Sport fish Guide, testified next via teleconference from Kenai and supported the appointment of Mr. Umphenour to the Board of Fisheries because of his support for all areas of the state, not just one area. He also supported Mr. Coffey to the Board of Fisheries and asked that he be given a chance. Number 1594 RHON LYONS, Sport fish Guide, testified next via teleconference from Kenai and supported the appointments of both Mr. Coffey and Mr. Umphenour to the Board of Fisheries because of the degree of objectivity they have shown when listening to the ADFG and public testimony, they will allocate resources and provide justification for their actions. He said both Mr. Coffey and Mr. Umphenour are representative of the public in general. He cited Mr. Umphenour's experience on the Board of Fisheries which will add strength to the board. He said Mr. Coffey and Mr. Umphenour have outdoor experience and a strong ability to listen and sort out the facts the opinions of specific interest groups as well as exhibiting common sense. Number 1639 JOHN EFTA testified next via teleconference from Kenai and opposed the appointment of Mr. Coffey to the Board of Fisheries. He said it appears that Mr. Coffey did not believe in the system because of his involvement in the F.I.S.H. initiative. He said the initiative process was done to circumvent the system and support the board of F.I.S.H. position. He questioned how an unbiased opinion could be achieved by a chameleon who serves as a legislator, lawyer, judge and jury. Number 1674 BEN ELLIS, Executive Director, Kenai River Sport Fishing Association, testified next via teleconference from Anchorage. He said the association is a non-profit sport fishing group based in Soldotna and supports the appointment of Mr. Coffey and Mr. Umphenour to the Board of Fisheries. He said both of these men will meet the challenges the fisheries face. He said members on the Board of Fisheries are needed who will act to protect the resources, provide non-commercial users the constitutional rights and then after these committements have been met allow for responsible commercial harvests. He said the association might not agree with Mr. Coffey or Mr. Umphenour's decisions, but when listening to their reasoning it is hard to fault these two men who bring perspective from the south central and the interior regions of Alaska. MR. ELLIS said Mr. Coffey drew praise at last monthes Board of Fisheries hearing on Cook Inlet from Paul Ruesch the commercial fisheries regional biologist in ADFG. Mr. Ruesch said he gained a tremendous respect for Mr. Coffey because of the questions he asked and his willingness to learn. Mr. Ellis said those two qualities are the two things that you can ask from a Board of Fisheries member. He said Mr. Umphenour has shown that he is a qualified individual who places the importance of the resource first and his record provided a reappointment because the Governor said, "He has not finished his mission." He asked that the committee allow Mr. Umphenour to complete this mission. MR. ELLIS said this is a critical time for the Board of Fisheries and must be comprised of members who will respond to sound biological principles, understand public sentiment and be able to undertake experimental, adaptive points of view in deciding salmon management plans. He said Mr. Coffey and Mr. Umphenour know what need to be done and the association asks the committee to give them a chance. Number 1795 DOUG SWEAT testified next via teleconference from Fairbanks and supported the appointment of Mr. Umphenour to the Board of Fisheries. He said Mr. Umphenour is knowledgeable about western Alaska and interior Alaska fishery problems and the Board of Fisheries has needed this knowledge for a long time and will lead to a unification of Alaskan fishery issues. Number 1817 MR. SWEAT opposed the appointment of Mr. Coffey to the Board of Fisheries despite the appreciation for his hard work and dedication. He said he is troubled with Mr. Coffey's perception that Norton Sound fisheries are unimportant. Number 1844 CO-CHAIR GREEN referred to Pat and Mike Wing and asked that unless they had different testimony, only one of them testify. MIKE WING, Commercial Fisherman and Operator, sport fishing charter boat, testified next via teleconference from Fairbanks and said that he and Patti generally have the same opinion on most things so he would speak on her behalf. He supported the appointment of Mr. Umphenour to the Board of Fisheries because of the respect he has for him and that Mr. Umphenour will do what is best for the limited resource within the state of Alaska. Number 1881 LAURA AMUNDSON testified next via teleconference from Fairbanks and supported the appointment of Mr. Umphenour to the Board of Fisheries. Mr. Umphenour has a lot of good input which supports the fishing interest of the Norton Sound area and the interior. "And I also Dan Coffey." Number 1912 DICK BOWER, Member, Board of Fisheries testified next via teleconference from Kenai and said under normal circumstances he would not be testifying on a confirmation hearing. He said the situation this year is similar to when he was confirmed two years ago. He said he would not testify on behalf of Mr. Umphenour because of his record should be sufficient to draw conclusions on his performance. He said both Mr. Miller's and Mr. Coffey's votes should be viewed in the respect that the last two meetings of the Board of Fisheries were, perhaps, the most contentious. He said, in his opinion, at the recent Board of Fisheries meetings they have both asked critical questions, sought to draw out answers or data by which the rest of the board members might be influenced in connection with decisions that were being made. MR. BOWER said Mr. Miller raised many issues relating specifically to his knowledge of the fishery and this knowledge served the board when the issues regarded methods, means and other things. Number 2000 MR. BOWER said the Board of Fisheries is very involved with things which makes Mr. Coffey's background useful. Number 2012 JOE HARDY, Representing Local SPARIC Chapter, testified next via teleconference from Kenai and supported the appointments of Mr. Coffey and Mr. Umphenour to the Board of Fisheries. He said the they will provide a balance in the composition of the board. He said a diversity of backgrounds are needed from which the members draw their decisions, not just special interest. He said many hard decisions have been made and will continue to be made which require an open mind, an ability to assimilate the data and to compromise. He said both Mr. Coffey and Mr. Umphenour have a sport fishing background which provides diversity to the board and their perspectives have benefited from the Board of Fisheries' decision. He attended the Cook Inlet meetings this winter and said Mr. Umphenour and Mr. Coffey did a good job. Number 2055 MR. HARDY said he particularly supported Mr. Coffey's appointment to the Board of Fisheries because it will give the board's decisions a high degree of credibility to the sport fishing community and that Mr. Coffey will also balance the needs of commercial and sport fishing interests and the needs of the resource. Number 2066 JOE HANES, President, Kenai River Guides Association, testified next via teleconference from Kenai. He said the association has approximately 175 members and strongly supports Mr. Umphenour's efforts. He said Mr. Umphenour works hard, does and excellent job and tries to find out the real facts. MR. HANES said the association strongly supports Mr. Coffey in all of his efforts and said he has never seen a new Board of Fisheries member who has worked as hard and asked as many questions as Mr. Coffey has. He said Mr. Coffey has achieved knowledge over the last three or four months and said it would be a shame to have to start over with a new board member. He referred to Mr. Bower's concern over basing decisions over one or two votes, and reiterated that Mr. Coffey has had some tough decisions which he did not make solely on his own, but with the majority of the Board of Fisheries members. He said sport fishing guides and commercial fishermen have been on the Board of Fisheries and now is the time to have a sport fisherman on the board who is not biased. He said the Board of Fisheries and Mr. Coffey are now in the position to make some difficult decisions and urged support for the appointment of Mr. Coffey and Mr. Umphenour. He said both of them realize that the non-resident anglers are the foundation of the tourism market in Soldotna. Number 2147 BRAD ADAMS testified next via teleconference from Kenai and supported the appointment of Mr. Umphenour and Mr. Coffey because of their qualifications and their concern for the resources of the state. Number 2165 GILBERT HUNTINGTON, Co-Chair, Yukon River Drainage Fisheries Association testified next via teleconference from Galena and supported the appointment of Mr. Miller to the Board of Fisheries. He said Mr. Miller appeared levelheaded during the past two board meetings. He said some of the actions and viewpoints of Mr. Coffey have scared him and other people of his area. He said the legislature should remember the resource when confirming appointments. He said every member should show that they are on the side of conservation and said that Mr. Coffey has not shown this. He said it is for this reason that he opposes the appointment of Mr. Coffey to the Board of Fisheries. He said he supports the appointment of Mr. Umphenour to the Board of Fisheries because he is willing to go on the side of conservation. Number 2231 RICHARD BURNMAN, Subsistence and Commercial Fisherman, testified next via teleconference from Kaltag and supported the appointment of Mr. Umphenour to the Board of Fisheries. He said Mr. Umphenour supports a diverse and wide user group, from the interior region. Mr. Umphenour brings a common sense approach to problems and referred to his views on sustained yield principles. He said Mr. Umphenour's problem solving skills are needed on the Board of Fisheries at this time. Number 2287 JOE HAGER, Sport fishing Guide, testified next via teleconference from Kenai and supported the appointments of Mr. Umphenour and Mr. Coffey to the Board of Fisheries. He said fairness has to be achieved for both the commercial and sports fisheries. He said he would support either of their decisions. Number 2313 RON KANDAS testified next via teleconference from Kenai and supported the appointments of Mr. Umphenour and Mr. Coffey to the Board of Fisheries because of their support for sport and commercial fisheries. Number 2339 CHARLIE DREW, Sport fisherman, testified next via teleconference from Kenai and supported the appointment of Mr. Coffey to the Board of Fisheries. He referred to the fact that Mr. Coffey has been a commercial as well as a sport fisherman. He said Mr. Umphenour's record speaks for itself. Number 2341 DALE BONDURANT testified next via teleconference from Kenai. He said the fish resources belong to all the residents of the United States, not just to the limited entry people. He said the initiative process is a legal process. He expressed concern over the question directed to Mr. Coffey regarding his relationship with Mr. Penney. Number 2397 DREW SPARLIN testified next via teleconference from Kenai and said this was the only time that he has felt compelled to speak at a confirmation hearing. He supported the appointment of Mr. Miller to the Board of Fisheries. He said Mr. Miller has served on various committees, has had no consideration of what was in it for him, participated in several fisheries in the state and will be the only board member who has participated in any other fishery beside the salmon fishery. He said Mr. Miller has shown an ability to listen to testimony, ADFG reports, biologist recommendations while applying his vast knowledge within the state fisheries to assist him in making unbiased decisions on important issues. He said Mr. Miller has credentials, credibility, knowledge and integrity. He said Mr. Miller is the type of individual necessary to make the Board of Fisheries process work and for all of those reasons Mr. Sparlin supported the appointment of Mr. Miller to the Board of Fisheries. Number 2438 MR. SPARLIN strongly opposed the appointment of Mr. Coffey to the Board of Fisheries because of his limited participation within the community public service sector concerning Alaska fisheries. He said, for the most part, Mr. Coffey has served as a paid mouthpiece for the Kenai River Sport fish Association, Cook Inlet Sport Fish Caucus and as one of authors of the F.I.S.H. initiative. He questioned the ability of Mr. Coffey to make an unbiased decision on one of the most important resource of the state of Alaska. He said Mr. Coffey's appointment will only assist in the destruction of a unique board process. TAPE 96-62, SIDE B Number 0000 MR. SPARLIN urged the legislature to not confirm Mr. Coffey to the Board of Fisheries and to ask the Governor to appoint someone who will fulfill the campaign pledge to de-politicize the Board of Fisheries. He said every fishery in the state of Alaska, including sport fisheries, will helped by the rejection of Mr. Coffey because the fish resources cannot survive in a situation of political inaction. Number 0039 IRENE FANDEL, Business Owner, testified next via teleconference from Kenai and supported the appointment of Mr. Umphenour and Mr. Coffey to the Board of Fisheries. CO-CHAIR GREEN said, "Herman can I assume that your testimony would be the same as Irene's." Number 0057 HENRY FANDEL, Business owner, Sport fish Guide, testified next via teleconference from Kenai asked that he be able to get testimony. He said he has stopped all commercial fishing because of a small handful of commercial fisherman monopolizing all the fish. He said, with the hope for a more fair allocation of fish, he supported the appointments of Mr. Coffey and Mr. Umphenour to the Board of Fisheries. Number 0083 BILL WHITNEY testified next via teleconference from Kenai and supported the appointments of Mr. Umphenour and, in particular, Mr. Coffey. He said Mr. Coffey has knowledge and experience in the Kenai region. Number 0100 PAUL DALE, President, Salmon Producers Alliance, testified next via teleconference from Kenai. He said the alliance is comprised of fish processors and commercial fisherman and supported the appointment of Mr. Miller to the Board of Fisheries. He said he watched Mr. Miller at the last two board meetings and was impressed by his knowledge. He said he would let Mr. Umphenour's record speak for itself. Number 0140 MR. DALE said, with reluctance because of the dedication Mr. Coffey has shown to the project, he still had to oppose the appointment of Mr. Coffey to the Board of Fisheries. He said he would agree with many of the positive things that has been said about Mr. Coffey, but his association with the F.I.S.H. initiative so colors his involvement with the allocation side of these decisions. He said it is worth pointing out that one of things which need to occur, as the Board of Fisheries goes through the process of resolving the allocation disputes in the Cook Inlet, is that the decisions must be accepted by all involved parties. He said acceptance of Mr. Coffey's decisions will never be granted, by at least half, of the affected people of allocated decisions. Number 0203 JERRY McCUNE, Lobbyist, United Fishermen of Alaska, was next to testify and said his organization was opposed to the appointment of Mr. Coffey to the Board of Fisheries, supported the appointment of Mr. Miller to the Board of Fisheries and were neutral on the appointment of Mr. Umphenour to the Board of Fisheries. Number 0221 MR. McCUNE said his organization is opposed to the appointment of Mr. Coffey because of the involvement in the group pushing the F.I.S.H. initiative. He said the initiative is a hostile attack on family businesses which make up Alaska's commercial industry across the entire state. He said his organization did not feel that Mr. Coffey can make a fair and confident decision on the Board of Fisheries because of his involvement in the initiative and the allocation battle in the Kenai. He said his organization is a strong advocate of the Board of Fisheries process, however to work efficiently, board members must have a wide variety of experience, have a belief in the board process and an absence of personal agendas is critical and it is for these reasons that the United Fishermen of Alaska opposes the appointment of Mr. Coffey to the Board of Fisheries. CO-CHAIR GREEN closed public testimony on the three applicants to the Board of Fisheries Confirmation Hearing. ADJOURNMENT There being no further business to come before the House Standing Committee on Resources, the meeting was adjourned at 11:40 a.m.