HOUSE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES STANDING COMMITTEE March 26, 1993 3:00 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT Rep. Cynthia Toohey, Co-Chair Rep. Con Bunde, Co-Chair Rep. Gary Davis, Vice Chair Rep. Al Vezey Rep. Pete Kott Rep. Harley Olberg Rep. Bettye Davis Rep. Irene Nicholia Rep. Tom Brice MEMBERS ABSENT None COMMITTEE CALENDAR HB 105: "An Act providing for incarceration for nonviolent, youthful first offenders in boot camps operated by the Department of Corrections; creating the Boot Camp Advisory Board in the Department of Corrections; amending Alaska Rule of Criminal Procedure 35; and providing for an effective date." PASSED WITH INDIVIDUAL RECOMMENDATIONS SB 53: "An Act annulling changes made by certain regulations adopted by the Department of Health and Social Services relating to funding of abortion services under the general relief medical program; and providing for an effective date." HEARD AND HELD TO TIME UNCERTAIN WITNESS REGISTER REP. ED WILLIS The Alaska State Legislature Room 614 Courthouse Juneau, Alaska 99811 Phone: (907) 465-2199 Position statement: Prime sponsor of HB 105 DICK STOFFEL 1252 Pioneer Dr. Wasilla, Alaska 99654 Phone: (907) 376-1691 Position statement: Testified in opposition to SB 53 JOHN DAVIES P.O. Box 870478 Wasilla, Alaska 99687 Phone: (907) 373-2450 Position statement: Testified in opposition to SB 53 KATIE HURLY P.O. Box 870157 Wasilla, Alaska 99687 Phone: (907) 376-5736 Position statement: Testified in support of SB 53 GREG MIDDAG 643 Sunset Drive Ketchikan, Alaska 99901 Phone: (907) 225-2290 home Position statement: Testified in support of SB 53 JUDY JENKINSON House District Vice-Chair Democratic Party 2326 First Ave. Ketchikan, Alaska 99901 Phone: (907) 225-5839 Position statement: Testified in support of SB 53 RITA COX, Vice President American Association of University Women 825 B St. Juneau, Alaska 99801 Phone: (907) 463-3160 Position statement: Testified in opposition to SB 53 BILL BURK P.O. Box 240742 Douglas, Alaska 99824 Phone: (907) 780-6019 Position statement: Testified in support of SB 53 DEBORAH MORRIS P.O. Box 304 Kenai, Alaska 99611 Phone: (907) 283-8459 Position statement: Testified in opposition to SB 53 KENNA DUBOIS P.O. Box 702 Delta Junction, Alaska 99737 895-4851 Position Statement: Opposed SB 53 JOYCE MOLDENHAUER P.O. Box 595 Sterling, Alaska 99672 Phone: (907) 262-9319 Position statement: Testified in opposition to SB 53 ANN PENCE, Program Coordinator Women's Resource and Crisis Center 325 S. Spruce Kenai, Alaska 99611 Phone: (907) 283-9479 Position statement: Testified in support of SB 53 NANCY WALLIN P.O. Box 1492 Soldotna, Alaska 99669 Position statement: Testified in support of SB 53 MELLIE TERWILLIGER P.O. Box 206 Tok, Alaska 99708 Position statement: Testified in support of SB 53 RALPH E. LOHSE P.O. Box 14 Cordova, Alaska 99574 Phone: (907) 424-7170 Position statement: Testified in opposition to SB 53 ROY MOONEYHAM P.O. Box 1275 Delta Junction, Alaska 99737 Phone: (907) 895-1978 Position Statement: BARBARA RAWALT P.O. Box 823 Delta Junction, Alaska 99737 Phone: (907) 895-1946 Position statement: Testified in opposition to SB 53 MICHAEL RAWALT P.O. Box 823 Delta Junction, Alaska 99737 Phone: (907) 895-1946 Position statement: Testified in opposition to SB 53 DAVID ARNEGARD P.O. Box 138 Delta Junction, Alaska 99737 Phone: (907) 895-1930 Position statement: Testified in opposition to SB 53 DEBRA JOSLIN P.O. Box 337 Delta Junction, Alaska 99737 Phone: (907) 895-4565 Position statement: Testified in opposition to SB 53 JULIE BRENNAN P.O. Box 1165 Delta Junction, Alaska 99737 Phone: (907) 895-5153 Position statement: Testified in opposition to SB 53 CONNIE EMMERT P.O. Box 7191 Ketchikan, Alaska 99901 Phone: (907) 225-8811 Position statement: Testified in opposition to SB 53 HEATHER MUENCH P.O. Box 6811 Ketchikan, Alaska 99901 Phone: (907) 225-5372 Position statement: Testified in support of SB 53 TERESA CREVIER 1123 Black Bear Road Ketchikan, Alaska 99901 Phone: (907) 225-6588 Position statement: Testified in opposition to SB 53 GLENDA TABOR P.O. Box 325 Kotzebue, Alaska 99752 Phone: (907) 442-3168 Position statement: Testified in opposition to SB 53 BONNIE JACK 1063 W 20th Ave. Anchorage, Alaska 99503 Phone: (907) 279-4836 Position statement: Testified in support of SB 53 ANNALEE MCCONNELL Public Affairs Coordinator Planned Parenthood of Alaska 224 W. 23rd Ave. Anchorage, Alaska 99503 Phone: (907) 277-4822 Position statement: Testified in support of SB 53 MYRNA MAYNARD 2237 Forest Park Drive Anchorage, Alaska 99517 Phone: (907) 272-3357 Position statement: Testified in support of SB 53 SHERYL JACOBSON 614 Fischer Anchorage, Alaska 99518 Phone: (907) 563-7409 Position statement: Testified in support of SB 53 RANDALL BURNS Alaska Civil Liberties Union P.O. Box 201844 Anchorage, Alaska 99520 Phone: (907) 258-0044 Position statement: Testified in support of SB 53 SHERRIE GOLL, Lobbyist Alaska Women's Lobby; KIDPAC P.O. Box 22156 Juneau, Alaska 99802 Phone: (907) 463-6744 Position statement: Testified in support of SB 53 JOHN KNUTSON 2010 Lisga St. Fairbanks, Alaska 99701 Phone: (907) 452-7747 Position statement: Testified in opposition to SB 53 EVELYN FRISK Interior Alaska Women's Political Caucus P.O. Box 10465 Fairbanks, Alaska 99701 Phone: (907) 457-2552 Position statement: Testified in support of SB 53 RUTH EWIG, Secretary National Association of Christian Educators/ Citizens for Excellence in Education, Fairbanks chapter 2325 30th Ave. Fairbanks, Alaska 99701 Phone: (907) 452-5538 Position statement: Testified in opposition to SB 53 MEG GAYDOSIK, Board Member American Association of University Women 1024 Fifth Ave. Fairbanks, Alaska Phone: (907) 456-8389 Position statement: Testified in support of SB 53 KRIS GROSE Interior Alaska Right to Life 1111 Eliz St. Fairbanks, Alaska 99709 Phone: (907) 455-6886 Position statement: Testified in opposition to SB 53 NANCY KUHN National Organization of Women, Fairbanks 2086 Amy-Dyan Road Fairbanks, Alaska 99712 Phone: (907) 488-0329 Position statement: Testified in support of SB 53 VIRGINIA PHILLIPS 404 Lake St. 2-D Sitka, Alaska 99835 Phone: (907) 747-8024 Position statement: Testified in opposition to SB 53 ALICE YOUNG Sitka Respect for Human Life P.O. Box 6161 Sitka, Alaska 99835 Phone: (907) 747-5155 Position statement: Testified in opposition to SB 53 TOM MCBRIDE, Executive Director Another Way, Inc. P.O. Box 779 Delta Junction, Alaska 99737 Phone: (907) 895-4009 Position statement: Testified in opposition to SB 53 MARK MOLDENHAUER P.O. Box 595 Sterling, Alaska 99672 Phone: (907) 262-9319 Position statement: Testified in opposition to SB 53 JENNY EAST-COLE P.O. Box 1347 Delta Junction, Alaska 99737 Phone: (907) 895-4079 Position statement: Testified in opposition to SB 53 ROSEANNE CURRAN P.O. Box 42 Cordova, Alaska 99574 Phone: (907) 424-7642 Position statement: Testified in opposition to SB 53 CHARLES HORAN, Member Sitka Pro-Life Coalition 403 Lincoln St. Sitka, Alaska 99835 Phone: (907) 747-6666 Position statement: Testified in opposition to SB 53 CAROLE EVANS, Chair Interior Alaska Women's Caucus 1212 Farmers Loop Fairbanks, Alaska 99709 Phone: (907) 456-7794 work Position statement: Testified in support of SB 53 PREVIOUS ACTION BILL: HB 105 SHORT TITLE: BOOT CAMP FOR NONVIOLENT FIRST OFFENDERS BILL VERSION: SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) WILLIS,Bunde TITLE: "An Act providing for incarceration for nonviolent, youthful first offenders in boot camps operated by the Department of Corrections; creating the Boot Camp Advisory Board in the Department of Corrections; amending Alaska Rule of Criminal Procedure 35; and providing for an effective date." JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION 01/29/93 180 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S) 01/29/93 180 (H) HES, JUDICIARY, FINANCE 03/24/93 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106 03/24/93 (H) MINUTE(HES) 03/26/93 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106 BILL: SB 53 SHORT TITLE: ANNULLING ABORTION FUNDING REGULATIONS BILL VERSION: CSSB 53(FIN) AM(EFD FLD) SPONSOR(S): HEALTH, EDUCATION & SOCIAL SERVICES TITLE: "An Act relating to payment for abortions under Medicaid and general relief medical assistance; annulling changes made by certain regulations adopted by the Department of Health and Social Services relating to funding of abortion services under the general relief medical program." JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION 01/22/93 122 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S) 01/22/93 122 (S) HES, JUD, FINANCE 01/27/93 (S) HES AT 01:30 PM BUTROVICH ROOM 205 01/27/93 (S) MINUTE(HES) 01/29/93 187 (S) HES RPT 4DP 1NR 1DNP 01/29/93 187 (S) FISCAL NOTES PUBLISHED (DHSS-5) 02/10/93 (S) JUD AT 01:30 PM BELTZ ROOM 211 02/10/93 (S) MINUTE(JUD) 02/24/93 (S) JUD AT 01:30 PM BELTZ ROOM 211 02/24/93 (S) MINUTE(JUD) 02/25/93 481 (S) JUD RPT 1DP 2DP W/AM 2DNP 02/25/93 481 (S) PREVIOUS FNS (DHSS-5) 02/25/93 487 (S) FIN WAIVED PUBLIC HEARING NOTICE,RULE 23 02/26/93 499 (S) FIN RPT CS 4DP 2DNP NEW TITLE 02/26/93 499 (S) PREVIOUS FNS APPLY TO CS (DHSS-5) 02/26/93 (S) FIN AT 09:00 AM SENATE FINANCE 518 02/26/93 (S) MINUTE(FIN) 02/26/93 (S) RLS AT 01:15 PM FAHRENKAMP ROOM 203 02/26/93 (S) MINUTE(RLS) 03/02/93 575 (S) MOTION TO CALENDAR 3/3/93 FLD Y8 N11 E1 03/03/93 589 (S) RULES RPT 2/CALENDAR 1/OTHER REC 3/3/93 03/03/93 590 (S) READ THE SECOND TIME 03/03/93 591 (S) FIN CS ADOPTED Y13 N5 E1 A1 03/03/93 592 (S) AM NO 1 ADOPTED Y11 N8 E1 03/03/93 592 (S) ADVANCE TO 3RD RDG FAILED Y13 N6 E1 03/03/93 592 (S) THIRD READING 3/5 CALENDAR 03/05/93 634 (S) READ THE THIRD TIME CSSB 53(FIN) AM 03/05/93 635 (S) PASSED Y12 N6 E2 03/05/93 635 (S) EFFECTIVE DATE FAILED Y12 N6 E2 03/05/93 635 (S) Duncan NOTICE OF RECONSIDERATION 03/08/93 658 (S) RECON TAKEN UP - IN THIRD READING 03/08/93 659 (S) PLACED AT BOTTOM OF CALENDAR UNAN CONS 03/08/93 672 (S) PASSED ON RECONSIDERATION Y13 N6 E1 03/08/93 672 (S) EFFECTIVE DATE FAILED Y13 N6 E1 03/08/93 677 (S) TRANSMITTED TO (H) 03/10/93 582 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S) 03/10/93 582 (H) L&C, HES, JUDICIARY, FINANCE 03/23/93 (H) L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 124 03/25/93 (H) L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 124 03/25/93 (H) MINUTE(L&C) 03/26/93 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106 ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 93-48, SIDE A Number 000 CHAIR BUNDE called the meeting to order at 3:10 p.m., noted members present and announced the calendar. HB 105: BOOT CAMP FOR NON-VIOLENT FIRST OFFENDERS Number 022 CHAIR BUNDE noted that the committee was hearing HB 105 for the second time, and that after discussion about an amendment at the previous hearing, the sponsor had returned with an amended bill. He announced his intention to resolve problems wIth the bill and move it out of committee. REP. VEZEY asked for a description of the amendment. CHAIR BUNDE asked him to wait until the bill's sponsor had spoken. Number 032 REP. ED WILLIS, PRIME SPONSOR of HB 105, addressed the amendment. He referred to a blank committee substitute prepared as a work draft for the House Health, Education and Social Services (HESS) Committee, and pointed out the differences between it and the original. The title was amended to allow individuals to contract with the Department of Corrections to contract with persons, which he said would allow contracts for boot camps with both non-profits, as has been Rep. Nicholia's concern, and with for-profit corporations, as had been Rep. Vezey's concern. REP. TOOHEY asked whether the change mandated or allowed the Department of Corrections to contract out operation of boot camps. REP. WILLIS said the change allowed such contracts. CHAIR BUNDE said the change did not require boot camps to be operated by non-state entities. Number 070 REP. VEZEY commented favorably on the craftsmanship evidenced by the first amendment. Number 076 REP. WILLIS referred to a second change, on page 1, lines 9- 13, and page 2, lines 1-4, adding language to allow first time misdemeanant in the program, as Corrections Commissioner Lloyd Rupp had asked. The imprisonment term was set at at least 150 days for both first-time misdemeanants and first-time felons who had not previously been in a boot camp program, he said. Changes on page 2, line 22, section 4, added language to ensure that personal accountability and the work ethic would be part of the boot camp training program. Changes on page 3, lines 7-11, provide for contracting, he said. Changes on page 3, lines 12-25, address the limitations of the Department of Corrections' statistical information system, he said. Changes on page 3, lines 26-31, and page 4, lines 1-11, are aimed at making elements of the bill pertaining with eligibility agree with one another. He said that the Department of Corrections has reviewed and approved the changes to HB 105 reflected in the amended version of the bill. Number 134 REP. B. DAVIS moved that the committee accept the committee substitute (CS) of HB 105, as amended. CHAIR BUNDE, hearing no objections, declared that the committee had adopted CSHB 105, as amended. He asked whether including misdemeanant to the program would change the fiscal note for the bill. He said he was receiving "a strong signal" from a representative of the Department of Corrections that the fiscal note would not be affected by the change. Number 152 REP. NICHOLIA moved for passage of CSHB 105 with individual recommendations. CHAIR BUNDE called for a roll call vote on the motion. Those voting yes were: Reps. Vezey, B. Davis, Nicholia, Toohey, Bunde and G. Davis. Those voting no: none. He indicated that the bill had PASSED WITH INDIVIDUAL RECOMMENDATIONS. He called for a brief at-ease. SB 53 ANNULLING ABORTION FUNDING REGULATIONS Number 173 REP. TOOHEY called the meeting back to order and assumed the chair. She brought SB 53 to the table, announced that the remainder of the meeting would be teleconferenced, possibly later than usual. She said it was possible SB 53 might not be passed out that day, to allow time for further testimony. She noted that the committee took public testimony on SB 53 the previous day but not by teleconference, and that she intended the committee to hear testimony by teleconference during the meeting. She noted that the Senate HESS Committee had taken many hours of testimony on SB 53, and that she wanted individuals to limit their testimony on the bill to two minutes to allow time for others to speak as well. Number 205 (Technical problems prevented efforts to receive testimony from Ketchikan.) Number 226 DICK STOFFEL, A CONTRACTOR, testified via teleconference from Mat-Su in opposition to SB 53. He said he believed life began at conception and that abortion was murder of innocent babies. He said he did not want his tax money supporting abortion. Number 247 JOHN DAVIES, AN ATTORNEY, testified via teleconference from Mat-Su in opposition to SB 53. He said he opposed any use of government funds for abortion. He supported the position paper issued by Kimberly B. Bush, director of the Division of Legal Assistance. Number 263 KATIE HURLY testified via teleconference from Mat-Su in support of SB 53. She said abortion is legal in Alaska, and that without passage of SB 53, Alaska wold be discriminating against poor women. She said it was not an abortion issue, but rather an issue of providing health care to people in need. Number 278 GREG MIDDAG testified in Juneau in support of SB 53. He said women need the right to make their own medical decisions. Number 283 JUDY JENKINSON, HOUSE DISTRICT VICE-CHAIR OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, testified in Juneau in support of SB 53. She seconded the comments of Ms. Hurly, her friend and mentor. She said SB 53 supported the rights of poor women in Alaska. Number 294 RITA COX, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE AMERICAN ASSOCIATION OF UNIVERSITY WOMEN, ALASKA, testified in Juneau in support of SB 53. She said the association, representing 200 members in Alaska, supported the bill and appreciated work done on the bill that morning and the previous day. Number 300 BILL BURK testified in Juneau in support of SB 53. He said the rich have always been able to get abortions, but poor women suffer the damaging complications of illegal abortions. Having been a social worker, he said he had seen the physical and mental abuse women undergo. Number 317 DEBORAH MORRIS testified via teleconference from Kenai in opposition to SB 53. She said she did not want her tax money used to murder babies, and she opposed provisions that would allow state funding for abortions in cases in which it was decided that not ending a pregnancy would result in psychological harm to the mother. She claimed SB 53 would force hospitals to perform abortions against their wills. She said only abortionists would benefit from the bill. Number 341 JOYCE MOLDENHAUER testified via teleconference from Kenai in opposition to SB 53. She said there are better ways than abortion to resolve crisis pregnancies. She said voting for SB 53 was a vote for murder. Number 363 ANN PENCE testified via teleconference from Kenai in support of SB 53. She said eliminating state funding of abortion was the start of erosion of women's rights in general. She said the majority of Alaskans support pro-choice legislation. Number 371 NANCY WALLIN testified via teleconference from Kenai in support of SB 53. She said the issue was not whether abortion was right or wrong, and that it was legal. She said the issue was whether the state would allow those on Medicaid to have reproductive choice. Number 386 MELLIE TERWILLIGER testified via teleconference from Tok in support of SB 53. She said she was not immoral and she cares about women and families. She said she believed abortion was an issue of women's choice. Number 398 RALPH E. LOHSE testified via teleconference from Cordova in opposition to SB 53. He said a vote for SB 53 was a vote for an abortion procedure known as D&X, which he described in graphic detail, in which a fetus' head was drained and crushed prior to evacuation. He asked God to have mercy on the state. Number 425 CHAIR TOOHEY noted that the committee was taking testimony on whether the state should fund abortions for poor women, and not whether abortion was right or wrong. She asked those testifying to limit their comments to the issue at hand. She also announced that, if the technical problems barred testimony from Ketchikan during that meeting, there would be a separate opportunity for those in Ketchikan to testify by teleconference on SB 53 at a later meeting. ROY MOONEYHAM, A SOUTHERN BAPTIST PASTOR, testified via teleconference from Delta Junction in opposition to SB 53. He said he opposed abortion and funding for abortion any way, and he believed that adoption was a better solution than abortion. Number 439 BARBARA RAWALT, A MOTHER AND HOMEMAKER, testified via teleconference from Delta Junction in opposition to SB 53. She said abortion was murder, allowable only to save a mother's life. She encouraged saving limited resources for essential areas such as police and fire protection, not abortion. She said most Alaskans opposed abortion funding. Number 451 MICHAEL RAWALT testified via teleconference from Delta Junction in opposition to SB 53. He read a letter he had sent to the Fairbanks Daily News-Miner newspaper, which chastised state legislators for passing SB 53 through a Senate HESS Committee, despite teleconference and mailed testimony opposing it. He encouraged voters to use the POM system and to vote out those legislators who did not represent them. Number 479 DAVID ARNEGARD, A SOIL CONSERVATIONIST, testified via teleconference from Delta Junction in opposition to SB 53. He said the nation was not prospering spiritually or emotionally as it should because of a lack of fear of the Lord, especially among elected leaders. He said it would be unwise to pass the bill in defiance of the Lord's word. He cited scripture which he said indicated a fetus was a life. Number 504 DEBRA JOSLIN testified via teleconference from Delta Junction in opposition to SB 53. She said state funding of abortion equalled state promotion of abortion, and that the money could be better spent on adoption of unwanted babies. Number 517 JULIE BRENNAN testified via teleconference from Delta Junction in opposition to SB 53. She said there would be fewer abortions if money was not made readily available for it. She said taking life incurred a penalty, and that only God could take life. She described in graphic detail how abortions are performed; said that children are miraculous gifts from God; and that abortionists, like other murders, should be punished. (Rep. Kott arrived at 3:50 p.m.) CONNIE EMMERT testified via teleconference from Ketchikan in opposition to SB 53. She said abortion has encouraged abuse of women and abortion serves the interests of unhappy boyfriends or husbands, of embarrassed parents, but not of women. She said abortionists are interested in making a profit from women, and cited a magazine article calling abortion the nation's largest uncontrolled industry. She compared abortion to Nazi Germany's policy of killing those with hereditary diseases to save medical costs. CHAIR TOOHEY reminded those testifying to limit their testimony to two minutes to allow others the chance to testify. Number 579 HEATHER MUENCH testified via teleconference from Ketchikan in support of SB 53. She said the bill gives all women the same reproductive freedom. She said poor women are as responsible for their own sexuality as wealthy women, but every woman sometime during her life experiences a failure in birth control or an unwanted and unplanned pregnancy. She said abortion is a legitimate medical procedure, and the state is obligated to offer medical care to poor women on Medicare. TAPE 93-48, SIDE B Number 000 TERESA CREVIER testified via teleconference from Ketchikan in opposition to SB 53. She described in graphic detail the abortion procedure known as D&X. She described a self-help book for women that teaches how to induce abortion, and how to feign hysteria in order to qualify for abortions under Medicaid. Number 064 GLENDA TABOR testified via teleconference from Kotzebue in opposition to SB 53. She objected to claims of poverty as justification for state funding of abortion. She said the state should deal with poor people before paying for abortion. She encouraged state support of adoption, instead of abortion. She said the Alaska Native culture valued children. Number 105 BONNIE JACK testified via teleconference from Anchorage in support of SB 53. She said she was the new CHAIR of the ALASKA COALITION FOR CHOICE, Anchorage, and listed other affiliations with pro-choice, Republican organizations, including the Alaska Women's Political Caucus, the National Republicans for Choice, and the National Coalition of Republicans for Choice. She said Alaska has funded abortions for the poor since 1953, and that 59.12 percent of Alaskans favored them in a 1982 election. She said various polls showed that from 55 percent to 87 percent of Alaskans support abortion choice, depending on the circumstances. She said not funding abortions for poor women would punish them and expose them to the dangers of illegal abortions. Number 142 REP. KOTT asked Ms. Jack whether legislators should rely on 1982 surveys (election results), knowing that the population of the state changes every three or four years. MS. JACK responded that the 1982 figures were from an actual vote, and she had cited polls showing support for such funding from 1992, the same year Rep. Kott had been elected. She cited other polls supporting state funding for abortion. Number 165 ANNALEE MCCONNELL, PUBLIC AFFAIRS COORDINATOR FOR PLANNED PARENTHOOD OF ALASKA, testified via teleconference from Anchorage in support of SB 53. She said it was unconscionable for the Governor to wait until after the legislature adjourned in 1992 before introducing his regulations aimed at discouraging poor women from seeking legal abortions. She noted lawsuits by Planned Parenthood and other organizations to block implementation of the regulations, and said a state affidavit in the case implied they would bring no changes to state abortion funding practices. She said that a position paper by the Department of Health and Social Services and a fiscal note both assumed a 40 percent drop in annual abortion rates. She said SB 53 would clear up the confusion. She said it was unfair for the state to fund obstetrical care for birth, but not for abortion. Number 195 MYRNA MAYNARD testified via teleconference from Anchorage in support of SB 53. She asked for a speedy "do pass" vote on SB 53 as amended. Number 205 SHERYL JACOBSON testified via teleconference from Anchorage in support of SB 53. Number 210 RANDALL BURNS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE ALASKA CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION (ACLU), testified via teleconference from Anchorage in support of SB 53. He said the ACLU opposes the regulations as unconstitutional, and supported passage of SB 53. Number 229 SHERRIE GOLL, LOBBYIST FOR THE ALASKA WOMEN'S LOBBY, testified in Juneau in support of SB 53 as amended by the Senate, for many of the reasons previously mentioned. Number 238 JOHN KNUTSON testified via teleconference from Fairbanks in opposition to SB 53. He cited Proverbs 9:10, and Proverbs 6:16, saying that wisdom lay in the fear of the lord, and that the Lord hates shedding innocent blood. He said SB 53 wanted all Alaskans to murder babies, and that abortion was murder whether a person was poor or rich. Number 253 EVELYN FRISK, OF THE INTERIOR ALASKA WOMEN'S POLITICAL CAUCUS, testified via teleconference from Fairbanks in support of SB 53. She said that all women should have access to all reproductive health services, regardless of their residence or income. State funding of abortions is an important part of such access for poor women. Most Alaskans support the availability and funding of abortions, she said. Number 266 RUTH EWIG, SECRETARY OF THE FAIRBANKS CHAPTER OF THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF CHRISTIAN EDUCATORS/CITIZENS FOR EXCELLENCE IN EDUCATION, testified via teleconference from Fairbanks in opposition to SB 53. She said she had attended three of five teleconferences on SB 53 and opposed it. She read passages from an anti-abortion book which criticized legislators as "spineless bureaucrats," and she encouraged legislators to oppose abortion. She said hard-poor pro-life voters outnumber hard-core pro-choice voters, and said it would be politically advantageous to support pro-life positions. Number 209 MEG GAYDOSIK, PUBLIC POLICY CHAIR FOR THE AMERICAN ASSOCIATION OF UNIVERSITY WOMEN-ALASKA (AAUW), testified via teleconference from Fairbanks in support of SB 53. She said AAUW believed a woman's most fundamental right was to make informed reproductive decisions, unhindered by her economic status. She said the U.S. Supreme Court still holds that the decision to abort is a private issue between a woman and her physician. She said it was unacceptable for Alaska to create a class of women without that right to privacy because they did not have enough money. She said abortion must be treated like any other medical treatment for the poor, lest poor women attempt dangerous and inadequate self- induced abortions. Number 319 KRIS GROSE, OF THE INTERIOR ALASKA RIGHT TO LIFE, testified via teleconference from Fairbanks in opposition to SB 53. She said that the committee members represented both born and unborn Alaskans. She said abortion was wrong. She said the progress of SB 53 might cost some legislators re- election. She read two quotes from a judge and a legal decision opposing state funding of abortion. She said abortion was not a women's issue, but a social engineering effort. Number 345 NANCY KUHN, OF THE NATIONAL ORGANIZATION OF WOMEN-FAIRBANKS, testified via teleconference from Fairbanks in support of SB 53. She said SB 53 was crucial to protecting individual women's rights in Alaska. She said decisions on pregnancy belong to the women involved, not to the government, and that limiting government payment discriminated against poor women. Unwanted pregnancies can lead to lives of poverty for women and children. She referred to the idea that all babies not aborted could be adopted, and said no child should be considered a commodity on the abortion futures market, and that many children already spend unhappy lives in institutions awaiting adoption. She said one man's personal beliefs should not be forced on all residents. Number 366 VIRGINIA PHILLIPS testified via teleconference from Sitka in opposition to SB 53. She said the issue was state funding, and observed that the state did limit other kinds of medical treatment it afforded welfare recipients. If SB 53 passed, she said, Alaska would become the abortion capital of the nation, with women flocking to the state for free abortions and benefits, placing the state at risk from lawsuits for injuries during state-funded abortions. She said the state was trapped in moral and financial quicksand. Number 392 ALICE YOUNG, OF SITKA RESPECT FOR HUMAN LIFE, testified via teleconference from in opposition to SB 53. She said she had worked for two years in a pregnancy aid office. She said state funded abortion encouraged teen promiscuity by removing pregnancy as an undesirable consequence of sex. She encouraged young people to abstain from sex and to protect themselves from AIDS, pregnancy, guilt, trauma, low self-esteem, abortion trauma, emotional disorders, and exploitation. Number 418 TOM MCBRIDE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF ANOTHER WAY, INC., A NON- PROFIT DEALING WITH DOMESTIC VIOLENCE, testified via teleconference from Delta Junction in opposition to SB 53. Number 423 KENNA DUBOIS testified via teleconference from Delta Junction in opposition to SB 53. She said she opposed abortion because it was the taking of a life, and she did not want state funds to be used for the procedure. She said no one had the right to take another's life. Number 430 MARK MOLDENHAUER testified via teleconference from Kenai in opposition to SB 53. He read a written statement, on file in the committee room, saying just as the state would not pay for cosmetic surgery for poor women, so it should not pay for elective abortions. Number 452 JENNY EAST-COLE testified via teleconference from Delta Junction in opposition to SB 53. She said her heart said no abortion is right, whether for a rich or poor woman. She said every life was precious. Number 461 ROSEANNE CURRAN, A HOUSEWIFE AND MOTHER, testified via teleconference from Cordova in opposition to SB 53. She said she had no doubt that life began at conception, and that abortion ends that life. She said rich and poor women alike carry such guilt, they regret abortion, and that some turn to drugs, alcohol or suicide from guilt. She said abortion has nearly ended the possibility of adoption. She said something is wrong with society if it cannot afford to let babies live. CHAIR TOOHEY announced that, as people in Ketchikan had been unable to testify via teleconference, the committee would hear public testimony from that city early the following week. In the meantime, she said she wanted to close SB 53 to public testimony unless there were more people desiring to testify at that meeting. Number 479 CHARLES HORAN testified via teleconference from Sitka in opposition to SB 53. He said current regulations allowed most abortions, and said it might be possible for pro-choice and pro-life forces to find ground for compromise on the bill. He said he did not believe most pro-choice legislators were pro-abortion. He said SB 53 would promote abortions by providing funding for abortions in many circumstances. Number 510 CAROLE EVANS, CHAIR OF THE INTERIOR ALASKA WOMEN'S CAUCUS, testified in Juneau in support of SB 53. She said it was inappropriate for the Governor to push his personal values upon the entire state. She called the regulation change a discriminatory act against poor, disenfranchised women that would not save state money. She said she doubted the state would single out other groups to deny them benefits, and expressed satisfaction that SB 53 would make it possible to do the right thing regarding women's rights. Number 521 REP. KOTT asked Ms. Evans her opinion of what government's role should be in abortion. MS. EVANS answered that the government should not be involved in women's right to choose. Number 526 REP. KOTT agreed, and said it was an anomaly that people oppose government involvement in abortion regulation, but see nothing wrong with government funding of abortions. MS. EVANS responded that Medicaid was for those who needed it and that the regulations singled out one group of people by denying them benefits. She said it was definitely a women's discrimination issue. Number 534 REP. BRICE commented, "While it might sound two-faced, on the other hand, I think it's a complete abrogation of the whole democratic ideals that we live under to have a single old white man rewrite the regulations without any input by the public on the debate, and I believe that it's being dealt with properly here in the public, in true public debate, through the legislature..." He said the regulations pushed the bounds of legality, as pertains to the Administrative Procedures Act. Number 550 REP. OLBERG said, "I object to Representative Brice's blatant attempt to get into Capitol Quotes." Number 559 CHAIR TOOHEY announced that the committee would hear SB 53 again so that those in Ketchikan might testify so that the committee might deal with the bill. She closed public testimony on SB 53 and invited comment from the committee. REP. KOTT referred to testimony about how the regulations discriminated against a single group of people, that being poor women. He reminded the members of the HESS Committee that it had singled out welfare recipients and older residents when it reduced benefits to those groups. He also announced he had a series of amendments he wanted to offer to SB 53. TAPE 93-49, SIDE A Number 000 REP. KOTT presented his first amendment, saying it would have the effect of restoring SB 53 to its original form, before it was amended in the Senate. Number 015 REP. BRICE asked Rep. Kott for an explanation. REP. BUNDE noted that it would be appropriate for the chair to hear a motion to pass the amendment to allow for discussion. CHAIR TOOHEY called for objection to the amendment. REP. BRICE objected. Number 028 REP. KOTT said that the committee needed an original copy of SB 53 in order to discuss his amendment. He said he would offer the amendment the next time the committee considered SB 53, at which time the committee would be able to compare the original SB 53 with the amended version before the HESS Committee. Number 034 REP. VEZEY said he believed the committee did not need the original SB 53 to consider Rep. Kott's amendment. Number 050 CHAIR TOOHEY said she would be comfortable with taking up the amendment at that time, as Rep. Vezey had suggested. She asked if the committee was willing to consider SSSB 53, identified as 8LS0343-K. She then called for a brief at- ease, calling the meeting back to order a minute or two later. She then directed Rep. Kott to explain his amendment. REP. KOTT said it was not easy to do so without the original SB 53. But, he said, his amendment deleted some of the more liberal aspects of the bill as amended, and having the effect of returning the bill to its original form. CHAIR TOOHEY noted that the committee members had just been furnished with copies of the original version of SB 53. REP. OLBERG asked Rep. Kott whether his amendment to CSSB 53 would restore the bill to its original version. REP. KOTT answered yes, that was the intent of the amendment. CHAIR TOOHEY asked if there was a motion on the floor to accept the amendment, and then noted two objections. REP. G. DAVIS asked for time to read the amendments in more detail, unless Rep. Kott wanted to explain in more detail. CHAIR TOOHEY expressed agreement with Rep. G. Davis. REP. KOTT said that, in light of the questions on his amendment, he would offer the committee the opportunity for full consideration of his amendment. CHAIR TOOHEY asked Rep. Kott if he would present any other amendments he intended to propose, so that committee members would have time to consider them. Number 104 REP. KOTT said that he had other amendments which were contingent on the passage or his first amendment. REP. BUNDE noted that there were more amendments not on the first page Rep. Kott had presented. CHAIR TOOHEY encouraged Rep. Kott to distribute copies of all his intended amendments. (Copies of Rep. Kott's amendments were distributed to the committee and numbered 1-5.) REP. KOTT began discussing the amendments, saying that if the state were funding abortions, then it deserved some right in controlling what went on in abortion clinics. One amendment would ensure that the state would not be subject to lawsuits for funding abortions. The second amendment dealt with allocation of permanent fund money for abortion, he said. If it failed, it would be followed by the third amendment, which would allow Alaska residents to direct portions of their permanent fund dividends (PFD) toward paying for abortion services. He said it would provide an opportunity for those people who might believe that state revenues fell from the sky to put their own money where their mouths are. He indicated his disinclination to be directed as a politician by a 10-year-old vote on abortion funding. He said he had performed polls which showed that, while Alaskans supported state funding of abortion, they opposed paying for such procedures themselves through a PFD check-off. Number 195 REP. B. DAVIS asked why the committee was discussing whether abortions were right or wrong, or whether Medicaid should pay for such procedures in Alaska, when the state already paid for abortions for female state employees through their medical benefits. She asked whether it was appropriate for the state to pay for state employees' abortions, but not for poor women on state welfare. REP. KOTT stated, "Again, I don't have two faces here. I'm going to wear the same face. And if you're going to, I think, approach it from a perspective on one end of the spectrum, you have to look at it from the other end of the spectrum as well. I don't support using state monies for state employees, but there's not much that we can do at this point regarding that aspect because it's already built in the contract. We can do something at the other end of the spectrum and deal with the latter at a different time." Number 217 CHAIR TOOHEY asked for other comments, and, hearing none, ADJOURNED the meeting at 4:51 p.m., announcing that the committee would take up SB 53 again, with amendments, at the earliest convenience.