HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE March 24, 1993 8:30 a.m. TAPE HFC 93 - 56, Side 1, #000 - end. TAPE HFC 93 - 56, Side 2, #000 - #481. CALL TO ORDER Co-Chair Ron Larson called the meeting of the House Finance Committee to order at 8:30 A.M. PRESENT Co-Chair Larson Representative Therriault Co-Chair MacLean Representative Foster Vice-Chair Hanley Representative Grussendorf Representative Hoffman Representative Martin Representative Navarre Representative Parnell Representative Brown was not present for the meeting. ALSO PRESENT Deborah Wing, Director, Family and Youth Services, Department of Health and Social Services; John Peterson, Aid to Representative Gail Phillips; Gary Bader, Director, Administrative Services, Department of Education; Bruce Garrett, Kodiak, Alaska; Laura Fleming, Aid to Representative Bill Williams; Kate Tesar, Association of Independent Tour Operators, Juneau, Alaska; Irene Morris, Alaska Environmental Lobby, Juneau, Alaska; Romaine Careen, People Safety Coordinator, Department of Education; Geron Bruce, Special Assistant, Department of Fish and Game. SUMMARY INFORMATION HB 2 An Act requiring drug and alcohol tests for school bus drivers. CS HB 2 (FIN) was reported out of Committee with "no recommendation" with a Letter of Intent by the House Judiciary Committee and with a new fiscal note by the Department of Education. HB 97 An Act clarifying the responsibilities of the Department of Health and Social Services and parents for children who are committed to the custody of the department and are placed by the department with the parents; and providing for an 1 effective date. HB 97 was reported out of Committee with a "do pass" recommendation and with a zero fiscal note by the Department of Health and Social Services. HB 172 An Act relating to the wildlife conservation tag and to entry onto state game and wildlife sanctuaries, state game refuges, state range areas, and fish and game critical habitat areas; and providing for an effective date. HB 172 was held in Committee for further discussion. HOUSE BILL 97 "An Act clarifying the responsibilities of the Department of Health and Social Services and parents for children who are committed to the custody of the department and are placed by the department with the parents; and providing for an effective date." DEBORAH WING, DIRECTOR, FAMILY AND YOUTH SERVICES, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES, stated that the Department of Health and Social Services strongly supports HB 97, which clarifies the responsibilities of the Department for children committed to its legal custody and who continue to reside with the parent or parents. The bill amends AS 47.10.084 to require a parent or parents to provide for the day to day care of their children if these children are residing with them when the State has legal custody as a result of child protection services. Representative Parnell inquired if medical care would include the cost of counseling. Ms. Winger stated it would. Representative Martin discussed medical care costs of foster children. Ms. Wing noted that children in foster care would continue to remain a responsibility of the State. Representative Parnell inquired if parents would be asked to pay for counseling services of abused children. Ms. Wing noted, that if the child is qualified under Medicaid, the parents are able to utilize that resource. Representative Martin MOVED to report HB 97 out of Committee with individual recommendations and with the accompanying fiscal note. There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered. HB 97 was reported out of Committee with a "do pass" 2 recommendation and with a zero fiscal note by the Department of Health and Social Services. HOUSE BILL 2 "An Act requiring drug and alcohol tests for school bus drivers." JOHN PETERSON, AID TO REPRESENTATIVE GAIL PHILLIPS, noted that current Alaska law makes no provision for the routine testing of school bus drivers for drug and alcohol use. This bill would provide for such testing. The federal government is in the process of preparing regulations that will mandate testing for those who are required to have commercial drivers licenses for the operation of school buses. HB 2 is needed at this time as the effective date of the federal regulations is uncertain. The federal regulations will not apply to school buses with fewer that fifteen passengers, which does not require a commercial license for operation. Representative Grussendorf requested testimony from the Department of Law regarding the legal definition of "improper" use of drugs and alcohol. Representative Parnell questioned the constitutionality of mandating random testing. Mr. Peterson pointed out previous concerns regarding privacy was addressed in the House Judiciary Committee Letter of Intent. Representative Foster asked how the legislation's cost would be handled for the small village areas. GARY BADER, DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES, DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION, responded that the cost is determined by a statewide average. Most of the services would be contracted out. He added that the testing is legitimate for the safety of students. ROMAINE CAREEN, PEOPLE SAFETY TRANSFORATION COORDINATOR, DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION, noted there is a company in Anchorage which performs most of the state's testing, and added that drug testing is required by the federal government. Representative Parnell questioned if the federal regulations mandated the proposed testing. Representative Hoffman recommended that the legislation clarify the coverage of costs for this testing. BRUCE GARRETT, KODIAK SCHOOL DISTRICT, KODIAK, ALASKA, stated that under federal law, the school district must be a "drug-free" work place. He voiced his concern with who would have the burden of paying the costs for testing. Mr. Garrett noted that testing would show any drugs or alcohol 3 in the persons system taken within a 72-hour period. Representative Hoffman felt that the testing would be a violation of the privacy act. Discussion followed regarding an employee who consumes on their "off" hours. Representative Parnell pointed out that the "drug free" zone was created by federal law. Co-Chair MacLean MOVED to report HB 2 out of Committee with individual recommendations and the new Department of Education fiscal note. Representative Parnell OBJECTED in order to make an amendment. He MOVED deleting the word "improper" from Page 1, Line 7 and Line 8. (Tape Change, HFC 93-56, Side 2). Representative Hanley recommended adding "illegal" on Page 1, Line 8 and deleting the word "improper". Representative Parnell WITHDREW his motion to delete "improper" and MOVED to delete the word "improper" on Line 7 and on Line 8 delete "improper" and replace with "illegal". There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered. Representative Hoffman offered a technical amendment which would explain that the Department of Education would be responsible for payments of all testing. Mr. Bader pointed out that it was the intent of the Department to pay for the testing. Representative Hoffman asked for approval of the conceptual amendment which would legally clarify that information. Representative Martin noted that the fiscal note states that the money is allocated to the Department of Education for specifically paying for testing. Representative Hoffman objected and asked that detailed clarification be contained in the bill. Representative Foster OBJECTED to moving the bill from Committee. A roll call was taken on the MOTION. IN FAVOR: Hanley, Martin, Parnell, Therriault, MacLean, Larson. OPPOSED: Hoffman, Navarre, Foster. Representative Brown and Representative Grussendorf were not present for the vote. The MOTION PASSED, (6 - 3). CS HB 2 (FIN) was reported out of Committee with "no recommendation" and with a House Judiciary Committee Letter of Intent and a fiscal note by the Department of Education. 4 HOUSE BILL 172 "An Act relating to the wildlife conservation tag and to entry onto state game and wildlife sanctuaries, state game refuges, state range areas, and fish and game critical habitat areas; and providing for an effective date." LAURA FLEMING, AID FOR REPRESENTATIVE BILL WILLIAMS, stated that HB 172 would create a wildlife conservation tag program aimed at encouraging non-consumptive users of Alaska's wildlife to help pay for wildlife programs and facilities they use. Wildlife viewing is a fast-growing form of recreation in the world, and a major factor in attracting visitors to Alaska. Careful management and development of viewing areas is important to protect the wildlife while enhancing visitor opportunities. The bill is a "user pays" approach to generating funds to support this growing area of wildlife use. The primary thrust of HB 172 is a voluntary program. Participants would pay a fairly small price for the tag. The price of the tag is left to the Department but will be kept low since the goal is to sell large numbers of the tags to those who voluntarily purchase them. Ms. Fleming explained the amendments submitted by Representative Williams which will make three small technical changes to CS HB 172 (RES) version. Co-Chair MacLean presented her concerns with the legislation and the limitations created in the McNeil River area which she felt would restrict individual freedom to explore certain parts of that area. GERON BRUCE, SPECIAL ASSISTANT, DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND GAME, noted the legislation would not restrict people from going into areas to pursue exempted activities. He added that McNeil is a small area sanctuary which is exclusively a brown bear viewing area. This area can be used by permit only and is already existing in law. The function of the permit system is to protect the intrinsic quality of the environment for the animals of those areas and for those who come to view the animals. Co-Chair MacLean voiced her concern with the potential expansion of areas added to the conservation tag entry system. Mr. Bruce advised that the Department will be working closely with tourism, the visitor industry and the 5 public. KATE TESAR, ASSOCIATION OF INDEPENDENT TOUR OPERATORS, JUNEAU, ALASKA, noted support of the legislation. She stated that her group has been assured by the Department of Fish and Game that the tourism industry will be included in changes in the current regulations. There will be no arbitrary designation of tagged areas without good reason. She spoke of the profit which could be generated from the pins. IRENE MORRIS, ALASKA ENVIRONMENTAL LOBBY (AEL), JUNEAU, ALASKA, spoke in support of HB 172. She recommended that non consumptive users pay a portion of the management costs for specified areas. Representative Foster interjected his many concerns with the proposed legislation. He felt HB 172 would be detrimental to Western and Arctic Alaska. Mr. Bruce noted that the Department would be willing to substitute language which would help clarify the legislation. The legislation is not directed at establishing additional fees for subsistence users, but rather allowing users to contribute to programs. Representative Hanley recommended limiting the law to the two designated areas. If additional areas should be added, then the Legislature would determine if they would be advantageous. Co-Chair Larson advised that the legislation should be returned to Subcommittee for further considerations. The bill was HELD in Committee. ADJOURNMENT The meeting adjourned at 9:45 a.m. HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE March 24, 1993 8:30 a.m. TAPE HFC 93 - 56, Side 1, #000 - end. TAPE HFC 93 - 56, Side 2, #000 - #481. CALL TO ORDER Co-Chair Ron Larson called the meeting of the House Finance Committee to order at 8:30 A.M. PRESENT 6 Co-Chair Larson Representative Therriault Co-Chair MacLean Representative Foster Vice-Chair Hanley Representative Grussendorf Representative Hoffman Representative Martin Representative Navarre Representative Parnell Representative Brown was not present for the meeting. ALSO PRESENT Deborah Wing, Director, Family and Youth Services, Department of Health and Social Services; John Peterson, Aid to Representative Gail Phillips; Gary Bader, Director, Administrative Services, Department of Education; Bruce Garrett, Kodiak, Alaska; Laura Fleming, Aid to Representative Bill Williams; Kate Tesar, Association of Independent Tour Operators, Juneau, Alaska; Irene Morris, Alaska Environmental Lobby, Juneau, Alaska; Romaine Careen, People Safety Coordinator, Department of Education; Geron Bruce, Special Assistant, Department of Fish and Game. SUMMARY INFORMATION HB 2 An Act requiring drug and alcohol tests for school bus drivers. CS HB 2 (FIN) was reported out of Committee with "no recommendation" with a Letter of Intent by the House Judiciary Committee and with a new fiscal note by the Department of Education. HB 97 An Act clarifying the responsibilities of the Department of Health and Social Services and parents for children who are committed to the custody of the department and are placed by the department with the parents; and providing for an effective date. HB 97 was reported out of Committee with a "do pass" recommendation and with a zero fiscal note by the Department of Health and Social Services. HB 172 An Act relating to the wildlife conservation tag and to entry onto state game and wildlife sanctuaries, state game refuges, state range areas, and fish and game critical habitat areas; and providing for an effective date. HB 172 was held in Committee for further discussion. 7 HOUSE BILL 97 "An Act clarifying the responsibilities of the Department of Health and Social Services and parents for children who are committed to the custody of the department and are placed by the department with the parents; and providing for an effective date." DEBORAH WING, DIRECTOR, FAMILY AND YOUTH SERVICES, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES, stated that the Department of Health and Social Services strongly supports HB 97, which clarifies the responsibilities of the Department for children committed to its legal custody and who continue to reside with the parent or parents. The bill amends AS 47.10.084 to require a parent or parents to provide for the day to day care of their children if these children are residing with them when the State has legal custody as a result of child protection services. Representative Parnell inquired if medical care would include the cost of counseling. Ms. Winger stated it would. Representative Martin discussed medical care costs of foster children. Ms. Wing noted that children in foster care would continue to remain a responsibility of the State. Representative Parnell inquired if parents would be asked to pay for counseling services of abused children. Ms. Wing noted, that if the child is qualified under Medicaid, the parents are able to utilize that resource. Representative Martin MOVED to report HB 97 out of Committee with individual recommendations and with the accompanying fiscal note. There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered. HB 97 was reported out of Committee with a "do pass" recommendation and with a zero fiscal note by the Department of Health and Social Services. HOUSE BILL 2 "An Act requiring drug and alcohol tests for school bus drivers." JOHN PETERSON, AID TO REPRESENTATIVE GAIL PHILLIPS, noted that current Alaska law makes no provision for the routine testing of school bus drivers for drug and alcohol use. This bill would provide for such testing. The federal government is in the process of preparing regulations that will mandate testing for those who are required to have commercial drivers licenses for the operation of school 8 buses. HB 2 is needed at this time as the effective date of the federal regulations is uncertain. The federal regulations will not apply to school buses with fewer that fifteen passengers, which does not require a commercial license for operation. Representative Grussendorf requested testimony from the Department of Law regarding the legal definition of "improper" use of drugs and alcohol. Representative Parnell questioned the constitutionality of mandating random testing. Mr. Peterson pointed out previous concerns regarding privacy was addressed in the House Judiciary Committee Letter of Intent. Representative Foster asked how the legislation's cost would be handled for the small village areas. GARY BADER, DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES, DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION, responded that the cost is determined by a statewide average. Most of the services would be contracted out. He added that the testing is legitimate for the safety of students. ROMAINE CAREEN, PEOPLE SAFETY TRANSFORATION COORDINATOR, DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION, noted there is a company in Anchorage which performs most of the state's testing, and added that drug testing is required by the federal government. Representative Parnell questioned if the federal regulations mandated the proposed testing. Representative Hoffman recommended that the legislation clarify the coverage of costs for this testing. BRUCE GARRETT, KODIAK SCHOOL DISTRICT, KODIAK, ALASKA, stated that under federal law, the school district must be a "drug-free" work place. He voiced his concern with who would have the burden of paying the costs for testing. Mr. Garrett noted that testing would show any drugs or alcohol in the persons system taken within a 72-hour period. Representative Hoffman felt that the testing would be a violation of the privacy act. Discussion followed regarding an employee who consumes on their "off" hours. Representative Parnell pointed out that the "drug free" zone was created by federal law. Co-Chair MacLean MOVED to report HB 2 out of Committee with individual recommendations and the new Department of Education fiscal note. Representative Parnell OBJECTED in order to make an amendment. He MOVED deleting the word "improper" from Page 1, Line 7 and Line 8. (Tape Change, HFC 93-56, Side 2). 9 Representative Hanley recommended adding "illegal" on Page 1, Line 8 and deleting the word "improper". Representative Parnell WITHDREW his motion to delete "improper" and MOVED to delete the word "improper" on Line 7 and on Line 8 delete "improper" and replace with "illegal". There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered. Representative Hoffman offered a technical amendment which would explain that the Department of Education would be responsible for payments of all testing. Mr. Bader pointed out that it was the intent of the Department to pay for the testing. Representative Hoffman asked for approval of the conceptual amendment which would legally clarify that information. Representative Martin noted that the fiscal note states that the money is allocated to the Department of Education for specifically paying for testing. Representative Hoffman objected and asked that detailed clarification be contained in the bill. Representative Foster OBJECTED to moving the bill from Committee. A roll call was taken on the MOTION. IN FAVOR: Hanley, Martin, Parnell, Therriault, MacLean, Larson. OPPOSED: Hoffman, Navarre, Foster. Representative Brown and Representative Grussendorf were not present for the vote. The MOTION PASSED, (6 - 3). CS HB 2 (FIN) was reported out of Committee with "no recommendation" and with a House Judiciary Committee Letter of Intent and a fiscal note by the Department of Education. HOUSE BILL 172 "An Act relating to the wildlife conservation tag and to entry onto state game and wildlife sanctuaries, state game refuges, state range areas, and fish and game critical habitat areas; and providing for an effective date." LAURA FLEMING, AID FOR REPRESENTATIVE BILL WILLIAMS, stated that HB 172 would create a wildlife conservation tag program aimed at encouraging non-consumptive users of Alaska's wildlife to help pay for wildlife programs and facilities they use. 10 Wildlife viewing is a fast-growing form of recreation in the world, and a major factor in attracting visitors to Alaska. Careful management and development of viewing areas is important to protect the wildlife while enhancing visitor opportunities. The bill is a "user pays" approach to generating funds to support this growing area of wildlife use. The primary thrust of HB 172 is a voluntary program. Participants would pay a fairly small price for the tag. The price of the tag is left to the Department but will be kept low since the goal is to sell large numbers of the tags to those who voluntarily purchase them. Ms. Fleming explained the amendments submitted by Representative Williams which will make three small technical changes to CS HB 172 (RES) version. Co-Chair MacLean presented her concerns with the legislation and the limitations created in the McNeil River area which she felt would restrict individual freedom to explore certain parts of that area. GERON BRUCE, SPECIAL ASSISTANT, DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND GAME, noted the legislation would not restrict people from going into areas to pursue exempted activities. He added that McNeil is a small area sanctuary which is exclusively a brown bear viewing area. This area can be used by permit only and is already existing in law. The function of the permit system is to protect the intrinsic quality of the environment for the animals of those areas and for those who come to view the animals. Co-Chair MacLean voiced her concern with the potential expansion of areas added to the conservation tag entry system. Mr. Bruce advised that the Department will be working closely with tourism, the visitor industry and the public. KATE TESAR, ASSOCIATION OF INDEPENDENT TOUR OPERATORS, JUNEAU, ALASKA, noted support of the legislation. She stated that her group has been assured by the Department of Fish and Game that the tourism industry will be included in changes in the current regulations. There will be no arbitrary designation of tagged areas without good reason. She spoke of the profit which could be generated from the pins. IRENE MORRIS, ALASKA ENVIRONMENTAL LOBBY (AEL), JUNEAU, ALASKA, spoke in support of HB 172. She recommended that non consumptive users pay a portion of the management costs for specified areas. 11 Representative Foster interjected his many concerns with the proposed legislation. He felt HB 172 would be detrimental to Western and Arctic Alaska. Mr. Bruce noted that the Department would be willing to substitute language which would help clarify the legislation. The legislation is not directed at establishing additional fees for subsistence users, but rather allowing users to contribute to programs. Representative Hanley recommended limiting the law to the two designated areas. If additional areas should be added, then the Legislature would determine if they would be advantageous. Co-Chair Larson advised that the legislation should be returned to Subcommittee for further considerations. The bill was HELD in Committee. ADJOURNMENT The meeting adjourned at 9:45 a.m. 12