HJR 14-CALL FOR US COUNTERMAND CONVENTION  HCR 4-US COUNTERMAND CONVENTION DELEGATES  2:39:21 PM CHAIR LEDOUX announced that the next order of business would be HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 14, Making application to the United States Congress to call a convention of the states to propose a countermand amendment to the Constitution of the United States as provided under art. V, Constitution of the United States; and urging the legislatures of the other 49 states to make the same application, and HOUSE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 4, Relating to the duties of delegates selected by the legislature to attend a convention of the states called under art. V, Constitution of the United States, to consider a countermand amendment to the Constitution of the United States; establishing as a joint committee of the legislature the Delegate Credential Committee and relating to the duties of the committee; providing for an oath for delegates and alternates to a countermand amendment convention; providing for a chair and assistant chair of the state's countermand amendment delegation; providing for the duties of the chair and assistant chair; providing instructions for the selection of a convention president; and providing specific language for the countermand amendment on which the state's convention delegates are authorized by the legislature to vote to approve. 2:39:31 PM REPRESENTATIVE SHELLY HUGHES, Alaska State Legislature, said she will present HJR 14, and HCR 4, in tandem. She then referred to Article V, of the United States Constitution, which read: The Congress, whenever two thirds of both houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution, or, on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments, which, in either case, shall be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the Congress; provided that no amendment which may be made prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any manner affect the first and fourth clauses in the ninth section of the first article; and that no state, without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the Senate. REPRESENTATIVE HUGHES described the resolutions as an Article V effort and stated that the word "countermand" means veto. She advised this would give state legislatures veto power over certain decisions being decided upon in Washington, D.C., if a certain number of states agree. She pointed out that HJR 14 is the call to the Congress, and HCR 4 gives the delegates instructions and contains the actual language that would be added at the bottom of the Constitution, which would be Article XXVIII if it were to be amended. She explained that calling a convention requires two-thirds of the states (34 states), to ratify an amendment it takes three-fourths of the states (38 states). She remarked that within this countermand amendment there is a mechanism to give the states veto power over federal decisions, and the amendment itself takes three-fifths of the states (30 states) to veto a federal decision. She pointed to the problems Alaska has with federal overreach and that she has been surprised with how often on the House floor a resolution is passed with the theme of overreach. She described those as important statement made, but questioned whether it moved the needle to restore the balance of power that Alaskans request be restored. She stated these resolutions are an actionable step in a long Article V process as other states would have to come on board in order to do this. She described it as a necessary step and is important for Alaska to take in that the founders put it in the Constitution at the time. She offered that when this nation was formed the states initially came together and formed the Articles of Confederation. As it turns out, she explained, the states retained too much power and within the U.S. Constitution is the idea of a proper balance between state and federal government. Issues occurred over the decades and centuries, including the power to tax and once the federal government held the purse strings it gained a lot of power. She offered that the resolutions are not partisan as they are about restoring the power between the state and federal government. She noted there has been concern that the U.S. Constitution is a sacred document so there has been apprehension about opening it up and having a convention. She related that this is not a constitution convention as it is a single amendment convention and sideboards would prevent it from being any other topic so the Constitution would not be unraveled. 2:47:10 PM STEWART CRUGER, Staff, Representative Shelley Hughes, Alaska State Legislature, said HJR 14 is the State of Alaska's call on Congress for an amendment convention for the sole purpose of sending the countermand amendment back to the states for ratification as is written in the first Resolved. The second Resolve states that the U.S. Congress will convene a convention within 60 days after the day it receives the 34th call for that convention from state legislatures. The third Resolve states that this is a continuing application and it will remain with Congress until the 34th application is received. The fourth Resolve encourages legislatures of the other 49 states to pass a similar resolution. With regard to HCR 4, Resolved one authorizes the legislature to appoint and summon delegates for the amendment convention. Resolved two gives the legislature authority to decide the qualifications and total number of delegates to send to the convention. Resolved three gives the legislature the ability to add or remove delegates. Resolved four provides parameters and instructions for the state's delegates at the convention and prohibits delegates from voting for any other amendment outside the countermand amendment at the convention. Resolved five reserves the countermand amendment as the only amendment for consideration for ratification by the legislatures. Resolved six states that upon a call for a convention by 34 states this resolved allows for establishing of the delegate credential committee within the Alaska Legislature with duties listed in Section (A) later in this document. Specifically, the Speaker of the House of Representatives shall appoint three members from the House, one being a minority caucus member. The President of the Senate shall appoint three members of the Senate, one being a minority member. 2:49:51 PM MR. CRUGER pointed out that Resolved seven provides for the replacement procedure for members of the delegate credential committee. Resolved eight allows for a selection of co-chairs of the delegate credential committee, one being from the House and one from the Senate. Resolved nine establishes when the delegate credential committee can meet. Resolved ten acknowledges that the delegate credential committee will continue until the first day of the thirtieth Alaska State Legislature and also requests that it be reevaluated by subsequent legislatures. Resolved eleven requests that the delegate credential committee be considered for reestablishment during the thirtieth Alaska State Legislature. Resolved twelve provides for removal and replacement procedure for members of the credential committee in that members are removed or replaced by the presiding officer that appointed them. Resolved thirteen provides for the duties of the delegate credential committee. He advised that this is a majority vote on decisions, official facilitator for the legislature, appointment of delegates, provide a committee report on selected delegates, appoint a chair and assistant chair of the delegation, properly vet and confirm delegates, issue convention passes to delegates, notify legislature of financial needs of the convention, administer oaths to the delegates, alternates, chair, and assistant chair, monitor activities of Alaska's delegation, submit quarterly reports to the legislature on events, progress and recommendations for the convention, and authority to recommend removal of a delegate or alternate for approval by the legislature. Resolved thirteen, Section B, provides for the duties of the chair of Alaska's state delegation and the president of the convention. He offered that the chair is responsible for communicating with other state delegations to open convention for business, identifying other legislatures that have approved the delegate resolution, build consensus with at least 26 state delegations to require that each state delegation at the convention has only one vote, require a simple majority vote at all roll calls, nominate convention officials, require a quorum of 26 states to conduct business, build a consensus of at least 26 states to support sending the countermand amendment for ratification, work to conclude the convention in 21 days or no longer than 180 days, nominate a candidate for convention president from Alaska's delegation or work to elect a president from delegate resolution state. Resolve thirteen, Section B, Subsection J, under duties of the Alaska delegation chair include supporting the following duties of the convention president: securing a vote for this delegate resolution to be the rules of order at the convention, focus on the purpose of sending the countermand for ratification by the states, request security measures as needed, oversee installment of officers at the convention, establish convention agenda, provide equal time for floor discussion for all states, prohibit introduction of any other subject other than the countermand amendment, call for a vote for sending countermand amendment to the states, report to 50 state legislatures ... 2:53:38 PM CHAIR LEDOUX asked Mr. Cruger to point out the highlights as opposed to simply reading from the resolution. MR. CRUGER stated that the above addresses the duties of the president of the entire convention. Resolved thirteen, Section C addresses the duties and responsibilities of the convention delegates. Resolved thirteen, Section D addresses the duties and responsibilities of delegate alternates. Resolved thirteen, Section E provides the text of the countermand amendment. He advised that Mike Schechter, from the Department of Law Charles Kaeprowiez, from Citizens Initiatives, on line for questions. CHAIR LEDOUX opened public testimony 2:55:09 PM CHARLES KACPROWICZ, Executive Director, Citizen Initiatives and Countermand Amendment, said he has worked on amendments for the U. S. Constitution either through Congress or state legislatures, under Article V, for over 40 years. The difference he proposes is the idea that state legislatures, under Article V, are sovereign and are the final law in all constitutional matters. He highlighted that [America] is a constitutional republic which is why there is a constitution to protect that. The U.S. Constitution, Article IV, Section 4, guarantees every state a republican form of government which means every state has one vote, regardless of the population which goes into the convention as well. He highlighted that the biggest problem existing during the constitution convention and before deliberations started, was sovereignty. George Witt, delegate, notable attorney, professor and distinguished gentleman at the time, headed up a committee and put eight rules together. He described an important rule being the recommendation that each state has an equal vote, the convention agreed and went forward as a republican form of convention. He stated that this issue has to be settled at every Article V Convention, and noted that currently there could be 534 politically charged delegates. He pointed out that the states will probably be allotted the same number of representatives the states have in Congress. He said the point to address here is to ascertain that sovereignty is retained by state legislatures as sovereignty trumps legal precedent, convention experience, historical events, and is the one thing the legislatures must not advocate as if they do, they will not get it back. He stated that every Article V Convention has to be protected so rather than letting the 534 delegates decide the matter, the state legislatures are the deliberative body in deciding matters related to the states including how to use Article V. He related that as the deliberative body, the legislature determines what these delegates do at the convention as they are ambassadors and not free agents. As a result, he remarked, the outcome of that convention will be successful and will be completed in approximately seven days. 3:01:03 PM MR. KACPROWICZ advised that the amendment itself will allow the State of Alaska to address some of the most critical issues it has to currently deal with. He pointed out that Nevada has approximately 82 percent of its land controlled by the federal government and Alaska has approximately 67 percent. He reminded the committee Alaska recently received an Executive Order locking up more land and preventing Alaska from using the land for whatever purposes it chooses. The Countermand Amendment can address that issue as there are 38 energy producing states and only 30 Countermand Amendments are necessary. Should Alaska decide to countermand a particular EPA, or BLM ruling, it would send it to the appropriate federal agencies together with an invitation to the other 49 states inviting them to countermand the same law. He opined that Alaska will more than likely get the 30 states necessary just on the issue of energy. As a result, it will put the state legislatures in a respected role by the federal government, he explained. 3:02:42 PM CHAIR LEDOUX closed public testimony after ascertaining no one further wished to testify. 3:03:03 PM REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN said the idea of trying to make it the framework in which states can take up certain acts of Congress may have some validity, but advised that this proposal, unless it was modified, probably goes too far. For example, page 11, on CSHCR 4, the provisions allowing a state's vote to overturn a judicial decision as well as the U.S. Senate action approving a treaty are both going farther than is appropriate in terms of a state's role in America's constitutional democracy. He described it as a positive idea that needs refining before it is ready for prime time. 3:04:09 PM REPRESENTATIVE KELLER stated that generally that this is a good effort and there are many Article V's out there with low risk to the Alaska State Legislature. He referred to the Article V effort passed last year on the balanced budget amendment that 4 states have now joined and that the effort takes time. He explained that he has been involved with the Assembly of State Legislators which is a national group of legislators working on approximately the same thing as the countermand process, but the effort there is to attempt to come up with the rules and agenda for the first convention. He pointed out that there are several Article V's out there, and they all help Alaska because they are raising awareness that states have the option of using Article V, which was intended for states to use. 3:05:42 PM REPRESENTATIVE KELLER moved to report CSHJR 14(STA) out of committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal notes. There being no objection, CSHJR 14(STA) moved out of the House Judiciary Standing Committee. 3:05:59 PM The committee took an at-ease from 3:05 to 3:08 p.m. 3:08:45 PM REPRESENTATIVE KELLER moved to report CSHCR 4 out of committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal notes. There being no objection, CSHCR 4 moved out of the House Judiciary Standing Committee. 3:09:17 PM