02/20/2024 01:30 PM Senate TRANSPORTATION
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB199 | |
| Executive Order No. 131 | |
| Adjourn |
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | SB 199 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
SENATE TRANSPORTATION STANDING COMMITTEE
February 20, 2024
1:34 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator James Kaufman, Chair
Senator David Wilson, Vice Chair
Senator Löki Tobin
Senator Jesse Kiehl
Senator Robert Myers
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 199(TRA)
"An Act relating to access roads; relating to state land;
relating to contracts for the sale of state land; relating to
the authority of the Department of Education and Early
Development to dispose of state land; relating to the authority
of the Department of Transportation and Public Facilities to
dispose of state land; relating to the acceptance of gifts,
donations, and grants by the Department of Natural Resources;
relating to accounting for certain program receipts; relating to
the authority of the Department of Natural Resources over
certain state land; relating to the state land disposal income
fund; relating to the sale and lease of state land; relating to
covenants and restrictions on agricultural land; and providing
for an effective date."
- MOVED CSSB 199 (TRA) OUT OF COMMITTEE
EO 131 REORGANIZING THE ALASKA MARINE HIGHWAY OPERATIONS BOARD
(AMHOB)
- HEARD
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: SB 199
SHORT TITLE: STATE LAND: DISPOSAL/SALE/LEASE/RESTRICT
SPONSOR(s): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR
01/22/24 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
01/22/24 (S) TRA, RES, FIN
02/13/24 (S) TRA AT 1:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
02/13/24 (S) Heard & Held
02/13/24 (S) MINUTE(TRA)
02/20/24 (S) TRA AT 1:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
WITNESS REGISTER
EMMA TORKELSON, Staff
Senator James Kaufman
Alaska State Legislature
POSITION STATEMENT: Explained the summary of changes for SB 199.
CHRISTY COLLES, Director
Division of Mining, Land and Water
Department of Natural Resources (DNR)
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions on SB 199.
RACHEL LONGACRE, Chief of Operations
Division of Mining, Land and Water
Department of Natural Resources (DNR)
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions on SB 199.
ANDY MILLS, Legislative Liaison
Department of Transportation and Public Facilities (DOTPF)
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided the sectional analysis for EO 131.
RYAN ANDERSON, Commissioner
Department of Transportation and Public Facilities (DOTPF)
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of EO 131 on behalf of
the administration.
PARKER PATTERSON, Assistant Attorney General
Department of Law
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions on EO 131.
MEGAN WALLACE, Chief Counsel
Legislative Legal Services
Legislative Affairs Agency
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions during the hearing on EO
131.
ACTION NARRATIVE
1:34:38 PM
CHAIR JAMES KAUFMAN called the Senate Transportation Standing
Committee meeting to order at 1:34 p.m. Present at the call to
order were Senators Myers, Tobin, Kiehl, Wilson, and Chair
Kaufman.
SB 199-STATE LAND: DISPOSAL/SALE/LEASE/RESTRICT
1:36:02 PM
CHAIR KAUFMAN announced the consideration of SENATE BILL NO. 199
"An Act relating to access roads; relating to state land;
relating to contracts for the sale of state land; relating to
the authority of the Department of Education and Early
Development to dispose of state land; relating to the authority
of the Department of Transportation and Public Facilities to
dispose of state land; relating to the authority of the
Department of Natural Resources over certain state land;
relating to the state land disposal income fund; relating to the
sale and lease of state land; relating to covenants and
restrictions on agricultural land; and providing for an
effective date."
This is the second hearing of SB 199 in the Senate
Transportation Committee.
1:37:03 PM
CHAIR KAUFMAN solicited a motion.
1:37:09 PM
SENATOR WILSON moved to adopt the committee substitute (CS) for
SB 199, work order 33-GS2634\B, as the working document.
1:37:20 PM
CHAIR KAUFMAN objected for purposes of discussion.
1:37:32 PM
EMMA TORKELSON, Staff, Senator James Kaufman, Alaska State
Legislature, explained the summary of changes for SB 199.
[Original punctuation provided.]
SB 199 Explanation of Changes, Version A to B
"An Act relating to access roads; relating to state
land; relating to contracts for the sale of state
land; relating to the authority of the Department of
Education and Early Development to dispose of state
land; relating to the authority of the Department of
Transportation and Public Facilities to dispose of
state land; relating to the acceptance of gifts,
donations, and grants by the Department of Natural
Resources; relating to accounting for certain program
receipts; relating to the authority of the Department
of Natural Resources over certain state land; relating
to the state land disposal income fund; relating to
the sale and lease of state land; relating to
covenants and restrictions on agricultural land; and
providing for an effective date."
Title Change. Page 1, Line 4: Adds "relating to the
acceptance of gifts, donations, and grants by the
Department of Natural Resources; relating to
accounting for certain program receipts;" to the
title.
Section 3. Page 4, Lines 11-19: Requires the
Department of Transportation and Public Facilities to
offer land they have determined fit for disposal to
the DNR before they can dispose of the land
themselves. The DNR has 45 days to accept, reject, or
ignore the offer. If the offer is not accepted within
45 days, DOTP&F may dispose of the land according to
standards established by the DNR commissioner.
1:38:37 PM
MS. TORKELSON continued explaining the summary of changes:
[Original punctuation provided.}
Section 4, Page 4, Lines 22-24 and Section 8 Lines 10-
22: Authorizes the Department of Natural Resources to
accept gifts, donations and grants to the department
for the purpose of providing signage for an asset
under the control of the department, in accordance
with a memorandum of understanding agreed on by the
donor and the department.
Section 13. Page 8, Lines 15-16: Clarifies that "if
requested" refers to a requested hearing under (d) of
this section.
Section 17. Page 14, Lines 1-12: Requires the DNR
commissioner to prepare an report for each property
deemed appropriate for commercial development that
describes the municipal and state government services
that the commissioner anticipates would be required
and the municipal and state tax revenue that would be
required to provide those services in the identified
area, if the land is commercially developed.
Section 9, Page 7 Lines 1-2; Section 16, Page 9, Line
31; Section 17, Page 11, Lines 7-8, 9, 11, 21 and Page
12, Lines 22 and 25: Minor technical changes are made
to conform the language to statutory drafting
standards.
1:40:04 PM
SENATOR WILSON asked if the intent of Section 17, lines 1-12 is
for DNR to prepare a property for commercial development prior
to a land sale.
1:40:29 PM
MS. TORKELSON deferred the question, suggesting DNR or Senator
Myers answer the question.
1:40:39 PM
SENATOR MYERS provided a hypothetical example in which economic
development leads to increased demand for state and municipal
services. He suggested that, in a Qualified Economic Opportunity
Zone, there is the potential for less tax revenue to offset the
increased cost of services. He said the purpose of the proposed
report is to provide a prudent analysis that demonstrates the
impact of commercial development in a community. The report
would project the anticipated costs and tax revenue to show
whether tax revenue is expected to meet the costs or not.
1:42:05 PM
SENATOR MYERS expressed concern about the language in Section 4,
page 4, lines 22-24 and Section 8, lines 10-22, which states
that the department can accept gifts and donations for signage.
He asked about DNR's authority to name things and whether this
language could create conflict when accepting donations for
signage.
1:42:53 PM
CHRISTY COLLES, Director, Division of Mining, Land and Water,
Department of Natural Resources (DNR), Anchorage, Alaska,
answered that DNR has limited authority to name things. DNR can
name things it established such as subdivisions or trails. She
stated she would get back to the committee regarding who has the
authority to name things like mountains or lakes.
1:43:29 PM
SENATOR MYERS expressed concern that a private entity might,
hypothetically, offer a donation and expect in return to be
allowed to name a trail or other public facility.
1:44:11 PM
SENATOR WILSON responded that Department of Transportation and
Public Facilities (DOTPF) does have the authority to accept
donations for signage and the intent of Section 4, page 4, lines
22-24 and Section 8 lines 10-22 is that the Department of
Natural Resources (DNR) would also have the authority to accept
gifts from communities or private entities to replace damaged or
lost signs. He said examples would be "No Dumping" or "No
Trespassing" or other signs that have been vandalized or
removed. He asserted that it is a good example of statute
supporting public-private partnership at no cost to the state.
1:45:31 PM
SENATOR MYERS expressed support for the intent of the language
in Section 4, page 4, lines 22-24 and Section 8, lines 10. He
said he is concerned about creating a regrettable loophole.
1:46:15 PM
SENATOR WILSON expressed confidence that the Department of
Natural Resources (DNR) would implement a reasonable and
thoughtful process and develop regulations for accepting
donations for signage and for naming things and that the public
process would prevent potential abuse of this by the public.
1:46:55 PM
CHAIR KAUFMAN solicited comments from Department of Natural
Resources (DNR).
MS. COLLES said Department of Natural Resources (DNR) does not
have the authority to name major landmarks.
1:47:18 PM
SENATOR MYERS explained that he understands it would be up to
the federal government to name a mountain or a lake, but opined
there is a potential for problems when naming things that DNR
creates and controls like a trail.
1:47:36 PM
SENATOR KIEHL asked Department of Natural Resources (DNR) if
they have policies and procedures in place, especially in State
parks, to govern the naming of things like cabins and trails. He
assumes there are safeguards in place to prevent prank names.
1:48:06 PM
MS. COLLES said she does not have the rules in front of her, but
she related an example of a public facility in the Knik River
Public Use Area that was named for a community member in
recognition of and expressing appreciation for his contributions
to the community. When it comes to other larger projects, she
would need to consult someone with more expertise.
1:48:54 PM
SENATOR KIEHL affirmed the value of the provision in Section 4,
page 4, lines 22-24 and Section 8, line 10 and offered to follow
up with the Department of Natural Resources (DNR) to ensure good
processes for naming are in place. He cited several examples of
community involvement in naming things, that it was a good
thing, and expressed confidence about working with DNR to review
naming policies.
1:49:33 PM
SENATOR MYERS said he is happy that the concern is on record and
that it will be addressed in later committee hearings if
necessary; and that it will be reflected either in SB 199 or in
regulation.
1:50:17 PM
CHAIR KAUFMAN removed his objection; he found no further
objection and CSSB 199, work order 33-GS2634\B was adopted as
the working document.
1:50:22 PM
CHAIR KAUFMAN asked if there was further discussion on CSSB 199.
1:50:26 PM
SENATOR TOBIN asked that a representative from Department of
Natural Resources (DNR) expound on points in its February 19th
Memo to members, to alleviate concerns around potential shifts
in transportation planning in and around Senate District I.
1:51:16 PM
RACHEL LONGACRE, Chief of Operations, Division of Mining, Land
and Water, Department of Natural Resources (DNR), Anchorage,
Alaska, answered questions on SB 199 and expounded on: February
19, 2024 memo.
MS. LONGACRE said she provided both maps and documentation for
District I, in particular. The areas of concern for the
Qualified Economic Opportunity Zones and commercial development
opportunity that are DNR property would have to go through a
very public process to convey if they were under a lease-to-sale
program. However, she said, there is no settlement land
available for the DNR lease-to-sale program in District I, but
there are lands that have been transferred and conveyed fully to
the municipality of Anchorage that could be considered for
commercial development under their authority. Those actions
wouldn't involve the Department of Natural Resources (DNR) or
the Department of Transportation and Public Facilities (DOTPF).
MS. LONGACRE further explained that land held by the Department
of Transportation and Public Facilities (DOTPF) in District I
would not be affected by SB 199 because SB 199 amends AS 35,
which does not apply to right-of-way corridors.
SENATOR TOBIN expressed appreciation for the explanation on
behalf of her constituents.
1:52:26 PM
SENATOR MYERS observed that land must be designated as
"settlement land" to be eligible for conveyance. He noted that
there are other classifications for land, including: "heritage
resource land", "wildlife habitat land", "transportation
corridor land", etc. He said he understood why the state would
retain those, but asked why lands like agricultural land would
not be available to sell. He said he thinks agricultural land
would be at the top of the list to sell and get into use. He
asked why land must be classified as "settlement land" first
[prior to conveyance].
1:53:15 PM
MS. COLLES answered that agricultural land can be conveyed but
must be used specifically for agricultural purposes. She said
there are other classifications, such as "reserved use" that can
be conveyed to municipalities or state agencies for specific
uses. "Settlement land" is used to designate lands to be
conveyed for residential use or personal use, where some of the
others are for other specific uses that can be conveyed.
1:54:03 PM
SENATOR KIEHL sought to clarify language in SB 199. He referred
to page 4, line 12 and suggested replacing "may" with a stronger
non-discretionary word and stated he wanted to offer a
conceptual amendment.
1:55:26 PM
CHAIR KAUFMAN asked if there was a motion.
1:55:27 PM
SENATOR KIEHL moved Conceptual Amendment 1 to CSSB 199, work
order 33-GS2634\B:
CONCEPTUAL AMENDMENT 1
BY SENATOR KIEHL
Page 4, line 12 following "department"
Delete "may"
Insert "shall"
1:55:28 PM
CHAIR KAUFMAN objected for purposes of discussion.
1:55:34 PM
SENATOR WILSON asked for confirmation that the proposal is to
change "may" to "shall."
CHAIR KAUFMAN asked Senator Kiehl to provide a description of
Conceptual Amendment 1 for Legislative Legal Services.
1:56:09 PM
SENATOR KIEHL said on page 4, line 12, change "may" to "shall"
to create a clear order of operations. He explained that when
the Department of Transportation and Public Facilities (DOTPF)
identifies land no longer needed for public works, they would
offer it to DNR. If DNR accepts the land, the Department of
Transportation and Public Facilities (DOTPF) would, without
discretion, transfer the land to DNR. If DNR declines or allows
the 45-day limit to expire, the Department of Transportation and
Public Facilities (DOTPF) would have discretion to lease, sell
or otherwise dispose of the land.
1:56:48 PM
CHAIR KAUFMAN maintained his objection for purposes of
discussion and asked if DNR had any concerns about Conceptual
Amendment 1.
MS. COLLES replied that DNR was neutral on Conceptual Amendment
1.
1:57:12 PM
CHAIR KAUFMAN removed his objection.
1:57:22 PM
At ease.
1:57:51 PM
CHAIR KAUFMAN reconvened the meeting.
1:57:57 PM
CHAIR KAUFMAN found no further objection and Conceptual
Amendment 1 to CSSB 199 was adopted.
1:58:18 PM
At ease
1:58:28 PM
CHAIR KAUFMAN reconvened the meeting and authorized Legislative
Legal Services to make technical and conforming changes to
Conceptual Amendment 1.
1:58:37 PM
At ease
1:59:23 PM
CHAIR KAUFMAN reconvened the meeting and solicited a motion.
1:59:32 PM
SENATOR WILSON moved to report CSSB 199, work order 33-GS2634/B,
as amended, from committee with individual recommendations and
attached fiscal note(s).
2:00:22 PM
CHAIR KAUFMAN found no objection and CSSB 199 (TRA) was reported
from the Senate Transportation Standing Committee.
2:00:38 PM
At ease
^EXECUTIVE ORDER NO. 131
EXECUTIVE ORDER NO. 131
2:02:43 PM
CHAIR KAUFMAN reconvened the meeting and announced the
consideration of Executive Order 131 Reorganizing the Alaska
Marine Highway Operations Board.
CHAIR KAUFMAN announced invited testimony for EO 131.
2:03:29 PM
ANDY MILLS, Legislative Liaison, Department of Transportation
and Public Facilities (DOTPF), Juneau, Alaska, said EO 131 seeks
to modify and reorganize the Alaska Marine Highway Operations
Board (AMHOB). AMHOB's members are currently appointed by the
Senate President and the Speaker of the House, with two members
appointed by each body. Under EO 131 the governor would appoint
all members. He noted that the governor currently appoints all
the members of the Aviation Advisory Board and other boards.
2:04:56 PM
RYAN ANDERSON, Commissioner, Department of Transportation and
Public Facilities (DOTPF), Juneau, Alaska, introduced himself.
2:05:21 PM
MR. MILLS paraphrased the sectional analysis for EO 131:
Section 1:
Adds to the uncodified law of the State of Alaska.
tThat the governor finds it is in the interest of efficient
administration to reorganize the Alaska Marine Highway
Operations Board.
Section 2:
Modifies AS 19.65.120(a), which is the composition of the board
and modifies the appointing powers to the governor.
Section 3:
Modifies AS 19.65.120 (c), which references membership of the
board on staggered six-year terms. Modifications give the
governor authority over appointments and handling vacancies.
Section 4:
Addresses uncodified law detailing the transition process if the
Executive Order takes effect.
Section 5:
Provides an effective date of July 1, 2024.
2:06:28 PM
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON said the governor and the current
administration support the Alaska Marine Highway System (AMHS).
He said the administration's support is demonstrated in multiple
ways; examples include operation budgets, capital budgets, and
successful maritime union negotiations from the past year. The
current administration recognizes the importance of Alaska
Marine Highway Operations Board (AMHOB) noting it was
established in Title 19; he said it is critical to Department of
Transportation and Public Facilities (DOTPF) in establishing
short- and long-term planning for the Alaska Marine Highway
System (AMHS) and to improve AMHS in service and in reliability.
He pointed out that EO 131 does not change the number of AMHOB
members or the requirements to serve on the board. It simply
requires that all members of AMHOB be appointed by the governor.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON stated his belief and the belief of the
governor that all Alaska would like to see AMHOB contribute
meaningfully to improvements in the Alaska Marine Highway
System. He asserted that the dynamics of the board have
prevented them from meeting statutory expectations.
2:08:44 PM
He explained that one of the statutory duties of AMHOB is to
provide a strategic plan for the AMHS. He said he sent a letter,
around February 8th, 2023 to AMHOB, reminding board members of
these duties, emphasizing the importance of those
recommendations for Department of Transportation and Public
Facilities (DOTPF). He said no recommendations were received.
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON said EO 131 does not denigrate the board's
work to date or the board members who have worked to contribute
on the board. He expressed respect for those members. He said EO
131 is intended to focus on the dynamics of AMHOB. He suggested
AMHOB would function better if members were more aligned at a
policy level, as is the case with the Aviation Advisory Board
and the Governor's Advisory Board on Roads and Highways. He
asserted those boards can offer more meaningful advice to the
Department of Transportation and Public Facilities (DOTPF).
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON concluded, stating that his testimony
represents the administration's policy perspective and he
offered to provide a practical perspective for discussion if the
committee so desired.
2:10:04 PM
SENATOR KIEHL said he looked at the Aviation Advisory Board
website and did not see a short-term plan, long-term plan, or
strategic plan mentioned. He asked for clarification to
understand how the Aviation Advisory Board is the example the
administration suggests for the Alaska Marine Highway Operations
Board (AMHOB) to follow if they haven't done two out of the
three things AMHOB has done.
2:10:38 PM
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON answered that the different advisory
boards have different statutory duties. He said EO 131 seeks to
address the dynamics of how an advisory board functions and
makes progress to fulfill the board's duties. He said the
Aviation Advisory Board has met statutory expectations; Alaska
Marine Highway Operations Board (AMHOB) has not.
2:11:13 PM
SENATOR KIEHL asked for clarification of the word "dynamics" in
this discussion.
2:11:26 PM
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON said the word "dynamics" refers to the
interpersonal interactions on the board; it refers to the work
being done by the board and the way individual board members are
contributing to the completion of the work. He said the word
"alignment" occurs to him often and he suggested boards that are
aligned can move things forward quickly.
2:11:59 PM
SENATOR KIEHL expressed appreciation for Commissioner Anderson's
observations and said that, over the past two and half decades,
Alaska Marine Highway leadership that appeared closely aligned
made costly decisions that sometimes proved to be inefficient
and sometimes proved to be failures. He asserted that quickly
achieving alignment may not be in the best interest of the
system.
2:12:52 PM
SENATOR MYERS wondered whether the word "advisory" is the
correct word to describe the work DOTPF expects from AMHOB. He
asked for more details about the way AMHOB and the Department of
Transportation and Public Facilities (DOTPF) work together.
2:13:55 PM
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON deferred to Mr. Mills.
2:13:57 PM
MR. MILLS agreed the expectation of the work by AMHOB does
exceed an advisory role and that is reflected in the board's
title: Alaska Marine Highway "Operations" Board. He recalled
working with the Senate Transportation Committee as well as
other legislative bodies to address the dynamics of AMHOB by
working to define the duties of AMHOB in statute. He
acknowledged that there is a line that they are at, if not over,
with regard to DOTPF's expectations of AMHOB and with what DOTPF
is coordinated to do with AMHOB. He said there is a strong
belief that the function of AMHOB is and should be more than
advisory and he acknowledged that the line is blurred. He noted
that DOTPF had significantly more meetings with AMHOB than with
other boards. He said that the number of meetings (24)
represents a substantial amount of effort by DOTPF to work with
AMHOB to meet the obligations set forth by statute.
2:15:57 PM
CHAIR KAUFMAN said AMHOB's role, according to statute, is not to
prepare short-term and long-term plans. He recalled in previous
session the Senate Transportation Committee worked with DOTPF to
clearly expose what statute says are the duties of AMHOB. He
described a detailed matrix, a "Responsible-Accountable-
Consulted-Informed" (RACI) chart which clearly indicated and
communicated the responsibility, authority, and accountability
for DOTPF personnel and AMHOB members. He sought to re-direct
the testimony and questions to the intent of Executive Order
131. He asserted that it is not the duties of AMHOB that are the
subject of Executive Order 131; rather it is the composition of
AMHOB.
2:17:22 PM
MR. MILLS maintained that the way members are appointed to AMHOB
creates an additional layer of accountability to work with
DOTPF. He characterized interactions between specific AMHOB
members and DOTPF as adversarial rather than advisory, which is
unfortunate. He said the reason for EO 131 is the governor does
not have the ability to work with AMHOB when there are issues,
including code of conduct issues, as he has been able to work
with other boards. He asserted that board appointments directly
affect the authority, accountability, and ability to deliver the
items required of AMHOB by statute. He noted that AMHOB had not
completed its statutory duties, as noted in the February 8th,
2023 memo from Commissioner Anderson to AMHOB.
2:19:08 PM
SENATOR TOBIN asked if the members of Alaska Marine Highway
Operations Board (AMHOB) are subject to legislative
confirmation.
2:19:31 PM
MR. MILLS answered they are not.
2:19:35 PM
SENATOR TOBIN said that her understanding of EO 131 is that it
would cause AMHOB appointments to be under the purview of one
person, the governor, and take away the voice of the people by
removing the elected officials from the role of appointing AMHOB
members. She emphasized the importance of community buy-in,
provided for by the appointing power of the Senate President and
the Speaker of the House.
2:20:44 PM
MR. MILLS said he understood the concern expressed. He said
appointing powers has unfortunately and, hopefully, not
intentionally, made things more political, not less, which, he
acknowledged, was not intended. He asserted that appointments by
the governor do not equate to political alignment because AMHOB
members are appointed, per statute according to their experience
and expertise. He said their opinions frequently differ from the
governor's.
2:22:23 PM
SENATOR KIEHL expressed appreciation for the staffing of AMHOB
and asked for a rundown of the history of the predecessor to
AMHOB, the Marine Transportation Advisory Board (MTAB).
2:22:50 PM
MR. MILLS said the storied and extensive history of MTAB was
before his time with DOTPF, however, he is aware that it was the
dynamic of MTAB that led to HB 63, the sun-setting of MTAB and
the formation of AMHOB. He said the structure of MTAB was
largely constituent groups and others vying for scheduling on
the ferries rather than a broader system-wide approach to
advising and making recommendations to Department of
Transportation and Public Facilities (DOTPF). He said the work
between AMHOB and DOTPF with the help of contractors has been to
widen the scope of AMHOB's work. He said it has been a big push
by DOTPF and the contractors. He pointed to the AMHOB website
for the history of MTAB and current progress of AMHOB.
2:24:20 PM
SENATOR KIEHL expressed appreciation for the perception of MTAB
in the years immediately preceding the formation of AMHOB. He
said MTAB was created by the Murkowski administration to advise
DOTPF on the same sorts of things AMHOB was created to provide.
He conveyed his observation that MTAB provided advice to several
commissioners that those commissioners were not interested in
hearing and MTAB members changed quickly. It became a board that
could have a public hearing on schedules or something but didn't
have any meaningful input, because board members had been
appointed by recommendation of a commissioner because they would
tell the commissioner what the commissioner wanted to hear. So,
all that was left was for members to vie for service for their
particular community or constituency. He asserted that the lack
of critical voices, third party perspectives and the ability to
bring expertise without worrying about losing seats on the board
is what led to MTAB becoming a fairly useless body.
2:26:16 PM
MR. MILLS suggested that MTAB was not useless but did have
limited utility. He said there was unanimous agreement that
meaningful input from AMHOB was necessary for DOTPF to have the
support it needed from a strong board and that is what led to HB
63 and the formation of AMHOB. He said EO 131 is before the
committee today because the administration does not believe
AMHOB is providing meaningful input now.
2:27:03 PM
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON said he understands the comments regarding
past commissioners and that Mr. Kiehl made key points. He said
he has not received advice from AMHOB and that is a challenge.
He reported that other boards, such as the Roads and Highways
Board have made multiple resolutions regarding current concerns
and topics that DOTPF could take and look for solutions. In the
case of AMHOB, the department has not received advice.
2:27:50 PM
CHAIR KAUFMAN commented that his office, when he was in the
Alaska House of Representatives, was quite involved in
developing the content of statute that came from HB 63. He said
it was important to introduce strong competency-based
requirements for AMHOB and to make sure, in aggregate, the board
had technical competencies around enterprise management, quality
management and the different things that help make a board
effective. He acknowledged that some of the content for AMHOB
member requirements does differ from other DOTPF boards in terms
of competency because of things like the marine elements and the
hospitality elements of the AMHS. He said the content requiring
long-term and short-term plans might be recognized as a hallmark
of his office; but the intent was not for AMHOB to create those
plans, rather that AMHOB would consult and advise DOTPF with the
creation of those plans. He asked for an update on the progress
of the long-range and short-term plans as required by the same
statute that created AMHOB.
2:29:23 PM
MR. MILLS reported that efforts by Alaska Marine Highway
Operations Board (AMHOB), AMHS, and DOTPF in concert with
consultants resulted in Phase 1 of the long-range plan,
completed in August 2023. He said that, as a consequence of a
reset from the first year with AMHOB, the effort to create the
long-range plan did not yield the desired result. He said the
plan right now is to have phase 2 in spring 2024 and the final
long-range plan completed in August 2024. He said AMHOB's
intention is that the short-term plan would be informed by and
come from the long-range plan when the long-range plan has been
established. He said there is a short-term plan in place but
reiterated that the intent is for the short-term plan to be
informed by the long-term vision.
MR. MILLS listed other powers and duties of AMHOB: the board
shall provide advice and recommendations to the commissioner of
DOTPF concerning the operations and management of AMHS,
including advice and recommendations regarding business to
enhance revenue and reduce costs, personnel management,
commercial services operations.
2:31:15 PM
MR. MILLS referred to AS 19.65.180(e) and said these are
specific examples of recommendations and advice for which the
commissioner's office has not currently received advice from
AMHOB. He reiterated that the focus on the long-range planning
effort is key to avoiding fits and starts and efforts in
different directions. He characterized the long-range plan as a
durable path toward a quality product.
2:32:04 PM
SENATOR MYERS asked about the constitutionality of having a
board with voting members appointed by the legislative branch
and the executive branch of state government.
2:32:26 PM
PARKER PATTERSON, Assistant Attorney General, Department of Law,
Juneau, Alaska, answered that the Department of Law's long-held
opinion is that appointments to advisory boards by the
legislative branch violate the separation of powers. He said
such appointments allow a different branch of government to
appoint individuals to staff units of the executive branch. He
said it is clear in Alaska Supreme Court decisions that the
power to appoint is an executive power and not a legislative
power. He further explained that when there is confirmation of
appointments [by the legislature], it is because of a specific
cross-delegation. He said Alaska has a system of limited mixed
separation of powers, in which limited power is held by, or
given to, another branch. In this case, the legislative branch
is given the power to confirm the heads of departments and
appointments to boards and some other specific circumstances. He
said the legislature cannot expand the power to confirm to also
include the power to appoint individuals to executive branch
units. He continued to explain that the power to appoint is a
core function of the executive branch. He said a board like
AMHOB, as set forth in AS 19.65.180, does draft and submit the
strategic plan for AMHS, and so AMHOB is at the heart, the
center of the governor's policy-making operations regarding the
Alaska Marine Highway (AMHS). He said, as a core entity within
the governor's policy making function, AMHOB must be accountable
to the governor. He concluded that this separation of powers
argument is the basis for Department of Law's position.
2:35:35 PM
CHAIR KAUFMAN solicited follow up questions.
2:35:38 PM
SENATOR KIEHL asked if Mr. Patterson said "confirm." He asked to
be directed to the executive branches power to confirm in AS
19.65.180.
2:36:09 PM
MR. PATTERSON explained that [the legislature has] a
constitutional power to confirm certain individuals. Beyond
that, the legislature is [constitutionally] not able to confirm,
much less appoint. Confirmation is a lesser power [than the
power to appoint]. The governor makes the appointment, then the
legislature can say yes or no to the governor's pick. That
[appointment and confirmation process] is in the state
constitution regarding department heads. The power set forth in
AS 19.65.180 gives the legislature the power to appoint, a
greater power than the constitutional confirmation, onto an
executive branch unit. From the Department of Law's point of
view, AS 19.65.180 gives the legislature power to appoint
members to an executive branch unit and goes far beyond that of
the narrow scope of constitutional confirmation power. He said
Department of Law's position is that the position to appoint
individuals to executive branch boards is constitutionally
beyond the scope of the legislature's power under [the principle
of] separation of powers.
2:37:23 PM
SENATOR KIEHL said that what the committee is looking at is an
advisory board that can inquire and advise but does not
independently exercise the powers of the executive branch. He
said giving advice is the issue, not the executive power of the
state.
2:37:59 PM
CHAIR KAUFMAN asked Megan Wallace to share her perspective on EO
131.
2:38:18 PM
MEGAN WALLACE, Chief Counsel, Legislative Legal Services,
Juneau, Alaska, shared the legal opinion of the Legislative
Legal Services office on AS 19.65.180 and AMHOB. She pointed out
that AMHOB is not under litigation and has not been challenged
in a court, and a court has not established that there is a
separation of powers issue. She considered the hypothetical or
speculative view of what a court might do. She said that the
question of separation of powers would likely turn on the
advisory nature of the board. She said the question would be
whether AMHOB was exercising executive function within an
executive branch unit or serving in a merely advisory capacity.
She said it's important to consider that AMHOB is required to
prepare and submit to DOTPF and the governor a strategic plan
for review. She said those powers and duties set forth in AS
19.65.180 feel, in her opinion, advisory in nature as opposed to
a substantive exercise of executive function. Ms. Wallace said
that since AMHOB is arguably not exercising executive function,
whether it is permissible for the legislature to appoint members
to AMHOB as outlined in AS 19.65.180, will have to be looked at.
2:41:09 PM
MS. WALLACE concluded that the legislature may consider whether
to approve or disapprove of EO 131 without there being a legal
issue. She said that today's discussion of policy is sufficient
for the legislature to decide whether the changes proposed by
the governor are acceptable or not.
2:41:52 PM
SENATOR MYERS said he is aware that the legislature has had
members on various task forces, for example the recent Alaska
Food Security Task Force, as well as former legislators serving
as ex officio non-voting members. He said he is not aware of any
other boards that have either a legislative member or
legislative appointment for a long-term board. He asked if Ms.
Wallace was aware of any other boards that have members
appointed in that manner that have full voting powers with the
other members.
2:42:36 PM
MS. WALLACE answered that during her research for her opinion,
she identified the Citizens Advisory Commission on Federal
Management Areas (CAFCA) in Alaska, which may have been
repealed, used to be set up in that way, in that the presiding
officers [of the legislature] appointed members to the
commission. She said she also believes the Alaska Minerals
Commission has members appointed by the legislature. As noted,
there is a general understanding that members [of the
legislature] sit on boards in an advisory capacity.
2:43:36 PM
SENATOR TOBIN shared fond memories of riding the AMHS between
Juneau and Sitka as a young person. She prefaced her inquiry
saying she did not wish to impugn members of the board or
suggest they had not served with distinction. She noted that the
current vice chair and chair of AMHOB are the members appointed
by the speaker of the house and the senate president. She
expressed consternation about changing the composition of AMHOB
by removing the vice chair and chair, the leadership of AMHOB,
that seem to be in those [legislative branch] appointed
positions. She noted that there has been a lot of conversation
by the Department of Transportation and Public Facilities
(DOTPF) representative around a particular individual and some
of the issues that are being experienced in other parts of
DOTPF. She noted mention of issues with how AMHOB is operating
currently. She asked how the function of the board will be
improved by changing the current leadership of AMHOB, and with
regard to another individual's particular performance.
2:45:26 PM
MR. MILLS explained that the appointing power change that would
occur if EO 131 is approved is not a de facto change in the
current AMHOB leadership. It's a change in the ability for the
governor to bring accountability where there is not active
participation or results. He opined that there is not a direct
line to suggest that the members in those positions would need
to change. He said AMHOB would still need to have its own
election for chair and vice chair. He reported that during the
February 2023 meeting of AMHOB, the dynamics in the room were
very awkward. He said it was very uncomfortable for the public
and AMHOB members. He said DOTPF suggested changes procedurally
to try to avoid that, but those suggestions were not acted upon.
He opined that appointing power difference does change the
dynamic and how people would act from an accountability
standpoint. He asked Ms. Tobin to repeat the second part of her
question.
2:46:59 PM
SENATOR TOBIN affirmed that Mr. Mills answered her question
regarding EO 131's potential effect on AMHOB's leadership
positions.
2:47:09 PM
CHAIR KAUFMAN opened public testimony on EO 131; He found none
and closed public testimony.
2:48:01 PM
SENATOR KIEHL thanked Commissioner Anderson and the Department
of Transportation and Public Facilities (DOTPF) for the work
they have done with AMHOB. He expressed his view that it is
materially different from past DOTPF leadership, by which, he
said, he means better. He said this is a department that has
been listening to a board that is working.
MR. KIEHL shared his story of riding the AMHS ferry with
Secretary of Transportation, Pete Buttigieg. He described an
unusual opportunity to spend significant time with Secretary
Buttigieg, Senator Murkowski, Representative Stutes, and the
head of Southeast Conference, during which Secretary Buttigieg
asked many pointed questions. He said had the opportunity to
assure Mr. Buttigieg that DOTPF would not be getting in a hole
with maintenance of the ferries in the future. He told Secretary
Buttigieg Alaska's DOTPF would not be making decisions that flip
back and forth with the tides on $100 million or $120 million
infrastructure investments. He reported to the Secretary that
AMHOB would be exercising independent judgement and giving
advice to DOTPF.
2:50:05 PM
SENATOR KIEHL continued and said DOTPF's commissioner seems to
listen. He said that he doesn't always agree with AMHOB's
recommendation to DOPTPF and cited that as evidence AMHOB is
working hard and thinking hard. He said, if in future this, EO
131, takes effect and we have a governor he doesn't have deep
trust in, he doubted that he could make the same statement to
the Secretary of Transportation, regarding an independent set of
people looking hard and working hard on issues affecting AMHS.
He opined that the current structure is important to AMHOB's
functioning at a high level. [AMHOB's function is important to]
AMHS moving forward as the most effective and efficient system
we can provide Alaskans.
2:51:21 PM
CHAIR KAUFMAN observed that the Alaska Marine Highway System
represents opportunity and tremendous liability. He said we all
have to think long and hard about its management and its future.
There is significant risk in operating a ferry in the Gulf of
Alaska and its other operating locations. He said giving
consideration to the safe operation of the ferry system is
worthwhile. He opined that the state has made great strides in
the management of AMHS. He affirmed the appointment of the
current director.
2:52:38 PM
COMMISSIONER ANDERSON said everyone wants improvements to
service and reliability for the Alaska Marine Highway System
(AMHS). We want to stay focused. We don't want to go back and
forth on decisions. We want a steady way forward. He said DOTPF
has the right people to make this happen. He said EO 131 is an
effort to address the dynamics of the board and to accelerate
progress. He said AMHOB has brought good ideas forward and DOTPF
wants to move forward quickly, to take advantage of
opportunities that are available now. He explained the DOTPF
makes decision ahead of AMHOB because it must, even though it
would prefer working together.
2:53:46 PM
CHAIR KAUFMAN held EO 131 in committee.
2:54:33 PM
There being no further business to come before the committee,
Chair Kaufman adjourned the Senate Transportation Standing
Committee meeting at 2:54 p.m.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| SB 199 DNR Follow Up Answers to Questions 02.19.24.pdf |
STRA 2/20/2024 1:30:00 PM |
SB 199 |
| EO 131 Transmittal Letter 1.15.24.pdf |
STRA 2/20/2024 1:30:00 PM |
EO 131 |
| EO 131 Full Text.pdf |
STRA 2/20/2024 1:30:00 PM |
EO 131 |
| EO 131 Legislative Legal Memo 1.23.24.pdf |
STRA 2/20/2024 1:30:00 PM |
EO 131 |
| CSSB 199 Work Draft Version B.pdf |
STRA 2/20/2024 1:30:00 PM |
SB 199 |
| SB 199 Explanation of Changes v. A to S.pdf |
SRES 2/21/2024 3:30:00 PM STRA 2/20/2024 1:30:00 PM |
SB 199 |
| EO 131 Public Testimony Recieved as of 2.19.24.pdf |
STRA 2/20/2024 1:30:00 PM |
EO 131 |
| EO 131 Public Testimony Recieved as of 2.22.24.pdf |
STRA 2/20/2024 1:30:00 PM |
EO 131 |
| EO 131 AMHOB Board Member Testimony 2.22.24.pdf |
STRA 2/20/2024 1:30:00 PM |
EO 131 |