Legislature(2003 - 2004)

02/24/2004 01:40 PM TRA

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
            SENATE TRANSPORTATION STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                          
                       February 24, 2004                                                                                        
                           1:40 p.m.                                                                                            
TAPE(S) 04-5, 6                                                                                                               
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
Senator John Cowdery, Co-Chair                                                                                                  
Senator Thomas Wagoner, Co-Chair                                                                                                
Senator Gene Therriault                                                                                                         
Senator Georgianna Lincoln                                                                                                      
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
Senator Donny Olson                                                                                                             
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
SENATE BILL NO. 224                                                                                                             
"An Act relating to lowering  the legal level of intoxication for                                                               
operating  a  motor  vehicle,  aircraft,  or  watercraft  to  .02                                                               
percent  or the  equivalent for  persons under  21 years  of age;                                                               
relating  to   implied  consent   for  purposes   of  determining                                                               
consumption of alcohol; and providing for an effective date."                                                                   
     MOVED SB 224 OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                              
SENATE BILL NO. 298                                                                                                             
"An Act repealing the ban on the use of off-road vehicles within                                                                
five miles of the right- of-way of the James Dalton Highway."                                                                   
     HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                             
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
BILL: SB 224                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: MINORS DRIVING AFTER CONSUMING ALCOHOL                                                                             
SPONSOR(s): SENATOR(s) COWDERY                                                                                                  
05/14/03       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
05/14/03       (S)       TRA, STA                                                                                               
05/17/03       (S)       TRA AT 11:00 AM BUTROVICH 205                                                                          
05/17/03       (S)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
05/17/03       (S)       MINUTE(TRA)                                                                                            
02/24/04       (S)       TRA AT 1:30 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                              
BILL: SB 298                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: OFF-ROAD VEHICLE USE ON DALTON HIGHWAY                                                                             
SPONSOR(s): SENATOR(s) SEEKINS                                                                                                  
02/06/04       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
02/06/04       (S)       TRA, FIN                                                                                               
02/24/04       (S)       TRA AT 1:30 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                              
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
Ms. Chrystle Lowndes                                                                                                            
Staff to Senator Cowdery                                                                                                        
Alaska State Capitol                                                                                                            
Juneau, AK  99801-1182                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 224 for the sponsor.                                                                      
Ms. Cindy Cashen                                                                                                                
Mother's Against Drunk Drivers (MADD)                                                                                           
Juneau AK                                                                                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SB 224.                                                                                          
Ms. Jessica Paris                                                                                                               
MADD Youth In Action Program                                                                                                    
Juneau AK                                                                                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SB 224.                                                                                          
Mr. Ace Callaway                                                                                                                
Alaska Trappers Association                                                                                                     
Fairbanks AK                                                                                                                    
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SB 298.                                                                                          
Dr. Brian Pearson, Biologist                                                                                                    
Department of Wildlife Management                                                                                               
North Slope Borough                                                                                                             
Fairbanks AK                                                                                                                    
POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposes SB 298.                                                                                          
Mr. Lee Olson                                                                                                                   
Fairbanks AK                                                                                                                    
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supports SB 298.                                                                                         
Mr. Dick Bishop                                                                                                                 
Fairbanks AK                                                                                                                    
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supports SB 298.                                                                                         
Mr. Raymond Paneak                                                                                                              
Anaktuvik Pass AK                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposes SB 298.                                                                                          
Mr. Matt Robus, Director                                                                                                        
Division of Wildlife Conservation                                                                                               
Department of Fish & Game                                                                                                       
PO Box 25526                                                                                                                    
Juneau, AK  99802-5226                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT:  No position on SB 298.                                                                                   
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
TAPE 04-5, SIDE A                                                                                                             
         SB 224-MINORS DRIVING AFTER CONSUMING ALCOHOL                                                                      
CO-CHAIR   THOMAS  WAGONER   called  the   Senate  Transportation                                                             
Standing Committee  meeting to  order at  1:40 p.m.  Present were                                                               
Senators  Lincoln, Co-Chair  Cowdery  and  Co-Chair Wagoner.  The                                                               
first order of business to come before the committee was SB 224.                                                                
MS. CHRYSTLE  LOWNDES, staff  to Senator  Cowdery, sponsor  of SB                                                               
224, said the  purpose of the bill is to  lower the blood alcohol                                                               
level  (BAL) from  .08 to  .02  for driving  under the  influence                                                               
(DUI)  citations given  to minors.  Department of  Motor Vehicles                                                               
(DMV) data  indicates that in  2003, almost 400 people  under the                                                               
age of 21  were pulled over for driving  after consuming alcohol.                                                               
Forty percent  of them who had  their licenses revoked had  a .08                                                               
or higher BAL. Sixty percent had  below a .08 BAL, but were still                                                               
driving under the influence.                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR COWDERY asked if other states have a .02 BAL.                                                                          
MS. LOWNDES replied that most  other states with a zero tolerance                                                               
law  like Alaska's  have this  level. She  elaborated that  a .02                                                               
level allows  for things like  cough syrup, communal  wine, mouth                                                               
wash, etc.                                                                                                                      
SENATOR LINCOLN asked if drinking  and driving is already illegal                                                               
MS. LOWNDES replied  that the DUI statute, AS 25.35,  says one is                                                               
driving  under  the  influence  of  alcohol,  an  inhalant  or  a                                                               
controlled  substance if  the  blood alcohol  content  is .08  or                                                               
SENATOR LINCOLN asked if anyone opposes the bill.                                                                               
MS. LOWNDES replied  that she has heard of  no strong objections.                                                               
The  Department  of  Public  Safety (DPS)  has  voiced  a  little                                                               
concern over harshly treating under-age people.                                                                                 
SENATOR LINCOLN  said although  she wasn't  opposed to  the bill,                                                               
she  thought DPS  and  the Division  of  Corrections should  have                                                               
fiscal notes.                                                                                                                   
SENATOR  THERRIAULT  resounded  Senator Lincoln's  concern  about                                                               
cost and  added that  revoking a  license drives  up the  cost of                                                               
administration,  because  that  action gets  appealed  often.  He                                                               
suggested instituting  a different penalty  with a lower  cost to                                                               
the state.                                                                                                                      
CO-CHAIR WAGONER asked  how many under-age drinkers  who were not                                                               
driving had been found in vehicles.                                                                                             
MS.  LOWNDES replied  that minors  under the  influence in  a car                                                               
would  receive a  minor  consuming. The  driver  might receive  a                                                               
contributing to the delinquency of  a minor citation depending on                                                               
the situation.                                                                                                                  
MS.  CINDY CASHEN,  Mother's Against  Drunk Drivers  (MADD), said                                                               
that MADD  advocates a .02  BAL for those  under 21 who  drive. A                                                               
minor  operating   a  vehicle  after   consuming  (MOVAC)   is  a                                                               
misdemeanor like jaywalking or littering.  She strongly felt that                                                               
someone  who has  been  drinking and  driving  a two-ton  vehicle                                                               
should not be considered the same as jaywalking.                                                                                
Society expects accountability for a  crime (jail time); it wants                                                               
the offender to  remember not to do it  again (license revocation                                                               
and vehicle impoundment);  it also wants them  to receive alcohol                                                               
treatment. "MOVACs  are not effective  in reaching  these goals."                                                               
Kids just keep  racking up the MOVACs. They  are tomorrow's high-                                                               
risk drivers, because  their BALs typically go  higher every time                                                               
they are  stopped. There is  no reason  to seek treatment  with a                                                               
MOVAC; a DUI has credit.                                                                                                        
MS. CASHEN  said research has  shown that drivers between  15 and                                                               
20 years old  are more often involved  in alcohol-related crashes                                                               
than any other  comparable age group. The peak  for fatal crashes                                                               
occurs at age 21.                                                                                                               
She  related that  Alaska Youth  Risk  data shows  the number  of                                                               
people  who drove  a  vehicle  when drinking  one  or more  times                                                               
preceding the  survey was 12.3  percent in  1995; in 2003  it was                                                               
11.3 percent.  The Lower 48  has a  statistic of 13.3  percent. A                                                               
DUI would  provide those youth with  a big incentive to  get into                                                               
treatment to not have their driver's license revoked.                                                                           
SENATOR LINCOLN said  she supported the bill,  but reiterated her                                                               
concern  about  mandating  stiffer  penalties  without  providing                                                               
adequate funding  for the supporting agencies.  Alcohol treatment                                                               
funding, for instance, was reduced  for adults last year and this                                                               
penalty would  only add to the  need for more funding.  She asked                                                               
how many  crashes occurred in  Alaska that involved  people under                                                               
21 years of age and how many were actually inebriated.                                                                          
MS. CASHEN replied that 18  teenagers who were driving drunk were                                                               
lost between 1995 and 2001.                                                                                                     
CO-CHAIR  COWDERY   asked  what   the  committee   thought  about                                                               
exempting active military people from this law.                                                                                 
MS. CASHEN replied, "Absolutely not."                                                                                           
CO-CHAIR COWDERY asked her MADD's  position on designated drivers                                                               
among youth.                                                                                                                    
MS. CASHEN replied that MADD  does not support designated drivers                                                               
among  youth. "We  have zero  tolerance. That's  it. We  will not                                                               
even consider it.  We do not consider  designated drivers because                                                               
that opens the door.... Just don't do it. It's not worth it."                                                                   
CO-CHAIR COWDERY asked  how an under-age drinker in a  car who is                                                               
not driving would be impacted.                                                                                                  
MS. CASHEN replied  that peace officers must  have probable cause                                                               
to  pull  over a  driver  and  reasonable  doubt  to see  if  the                                                               
passengers are consuming.                                                                                                       
CO-CHAIR COWDERY  asked if juvenile  penalties should  carry over                                                               
to adult status if a person is almost 21.                                                                                       
MS. CASHEN  replied that growing  older does not affect  the fact                                                               
that one chose to break the law  and should have to deal with the                                                               
SENATOR  LINCOLN pointed  out  that juveniles  are  not put  into                                                               
adult facilities  and that female  offenders are not going  to be                                                               
housed in the  same facility as male offenders  and the treatment                                                               
centers cost a lot whether they  are in Alaska or somewhere else.                                                               
She  reiterated her  serious concern  about an  unfunded mandate.                                                               
DMV has  advised the  committee that just  because there's  a law                                                               
doesn't  mean the  DUI numbers  are  going to  drop, because  the                                                               
enforcement component won't be increased.                                                                                       
MS.  CASHEN said  MADD agrees  with her.  "We need  treatment; we                                                               
need   accessible  treatment.   If  we   don't  have   accessible                                                               
treatment, then one of the parts of the puzzle falls apart...."                                                                 
CO-CHAIR WAGONER  asked emphatically  and rhetorically,  "When do                                                               
we start holding parents accountable, too?"                                                                                     
MS.  JESSICA PARIS,  MADD Youth  In Action  Program, related  how                                                               
teens had  done surveys  at the High  School about  alcohol laws.                                                               
People seemed  to know least  that it's illegal for  people under                                                               
21 to have a BAL that's over  .00. About 50 percent of the people                                                               
thought the BAL was about .08.                                                                                                  
Kids  understand what  a DUI  is; the  simpler the  language, the                                                               
simpler the  concept is  to educate the  people. She  pointed out                                                               
that an adult's  license is suspended for three months  for  DUI,                                                               
but  suspended  for  only  two  months for  a  second  MOVAC.  So                                                               
changing the law would make it more consistent.                                                                                 
MS. PARIS said  she preferred language for a  MOVAC being changed                                                               
to  any blood  in  the  system because  it  would  be easier  for                                                               
juveniles to understand.                                                                                                        
SENATOR THERRIAULT  urged Finance  committee members to  look for                                                               
the hidden  expenses in this bill  and to find ways  to cover it.                                                               
He  moved to  pass SB  224  from committee  with attached  fiscal                                                               
notes and  individual recommendations.  There were  no objections                                                               
and it was so ordered.                                                                                                          
         SB 298-OFF-ROAD VEHICLE USE ON DALTON HIGHWAY                                                                      
CO-CHAIR WAGONER announced SB 298 to be up for consideration.                                                                   
SENATOR   RALPH  SEEKINS,   sponsor,   referencing  his   sponsor                                                               
statement, said the state's statutes  prevail over Bureau of Land                                                               
Management  (BLM)  statutes,  when  they  more  restrictive.  The                                                               
Dalton  Highway  was  opened  to public  use  during  the  Hickel                                                               
administration  and now,  10 years  later,  it is  time to  allow                                                               
public use of the lands on either  side of it. There is no reason                                                               
not to  it is done safely  and with care for  the environment. SB                                                               
298 asks that the statute be totally repealed.                                                                                  
CO-CHAIR  WAGONER  asked if  the  five-mile  prohibition was  for                                                               
recreation and hunting only.                                                                                                    
SENATOR SEEKINS  replied it was  for any purpose  whatsoever, but                                                               
it does not apply to off-road  vehicles necessary for oil and gas                                                               
exploration, development,  production or transportation, or  to a                                                               
person who  holds a mining claim  in the vicinity of  the highway                                                               
who  must use  land within  five miles  of right-of  way to  gain                                                               
access to it -  or if you start on one side  of the corridor, you                                                               
can drive  through it  to get  to the other  side, but  you can't                                                               
start in the middle to get to either side.                                                                                      
MR. ACE CALLAWAY, Alaska  Trappers Association, supported Senator                                                               
Seekins' description  of his  dilemma as a  trapper. A  number of                                                               
other trappers  have been affected;  one has a 275-mile  long tap                                                               
line with  cabins that he has  run for almost 15  years. There is                                                               
no way he could run that line  with on-foot access - and he can't                                                               
afford the cost of removing the cabins.                                                                                         
TAPE 04-5, SIDE B                                                                                                             
MR.  CALLAWAY explained  that he  is a  disabled veteran  and his                                                               
only  access to  his 250-mile  trap  line is  by snowmobile.  One                                                               
solution is to do away with  the statute and another would be for                                                               
the state to make vehicle  access points through the corridor. He                                                               
favored deleting the statute.                                                                                                   
DR. BRIAN PEARSON, biologist,  Department of Wildlife Management,                                                               
Fairbanks  North  Star  Borough,   opposed  SB  298  for  several                                                               
reasons.  Removing  the  five-mile   corridor  along  the  Dalton                                                               
Highway  would   increase  hunting  and  trapping   pressure  and                                                               
harassment of wildlife on the North Slope.                                                                                      
     This  is  important  for  several  reasons.  First,  if                                                                    
     you're  going  to   increase  the  competition  between                                                                    
     subsistence   hunters  and   sport  hunters   and  this                                                                    
     increase in  hunting pressure will  likely result  in a                                                                    
     change in  regulation that would effect  the ability of                                                                    
     subsistence hunters  to harvest  an adequate  number of                                                                    
     animals to support themselves and their community.                                                                         
     Second, and  perhaps as  important, the  Central Arctic                                                                    
     herd  has  served  as  a good  study  herd  toward  the                                                                    
     impacts  of oil  development  on caribou  on the  North                                                                    
     Slope.  An increase  in hunting  will certainly  change                                                                    
     our  ability   to  investigate   the  impacts   of  oil                                                                    
     development on wildlife.                                                                                                   
     Finally, biologically, caribou  likely cannot withstand                                                                    
     the  increases   in  combined  disturbance   from  both                                                                    
     industry  and  harvest  pressures.  Virtually  all  the                                                                    
     caribou  herds in  the state  that can  be accessed  by                                                                    
     roads.  Managers have  had to  impose pretty  stringent                                                                    
     management efforts to maintain  those herds in a viable                                                                    
     population.   Secondly,   removing  the   corridor   is                                                                    
     certainly  going to  cause damage  to  the tundra  from                                                                    
     all-terrain  vehicles. The  North  Slope  north of  the                                                                    
     Brooks  Range  is  certainly underlain  by  permafrost.                                                                    
     There are  numerous examples that the  damage caused by                                                                    
     ATVs is long-term....                                                                                                      
DR. PEARSON  said there is  only one  state trooper on  the North                                                               
Slope  and  law  enforcement  would  be a  real  issue.  The  oil                                                               
industry would have security issues  that are closely linked with                                                               
law enforcement.                                                                                                                
SENATOR  THERRIAULT said  many of  the same  arguments were  made                                                               
when the road  was opened up and asked if  any studies showed its                                                               
detrimental effects yet.                                                                                                        
DR. PEARSON  replied that hunters  had increased in  number along                                                               
the corridor; caribou had been found  with arrows in them from an                                                               
increase in archery hunters there.                                                                                              
CO-CHAIR COWDERY  reasoned if the  law didn't  exist, enforcement                                                               
would not be  needed. He didn't think  the additional all-terrain                                                               
vehicle traffic would cause much damage.                                                                                        
DR.  PEARSON  differed  saying  that  different  communities  are                                                               
proactive  in the  efforts they  take to  protect the  tundra. An                                                               
increase in traffic from the  state opening up the Dalton Highway                                                               
corridor would  certainly increase  the amount  of damage  to the                                                               
tundra. Tundra damage has been documented numerous times.                                                                       
SENATOR  THERRIAULT  asked if  he  would  support establishing  a                                                               
minimum snow cover.                                                                                                             
DR. PEARSON replied that would  certainly mitigate the effects on                                                               
the tundra,  but that doesn't  discount his other  concerns about                                                               
an increase in hunting pressure.                                                                                                
MR. LEE OLSON, Fairbanks, said he  is also a disabled veteran and                                                               
he  supports SB  298 because  it would  help give  him access  to                                                               
SENATOR  LINCOLN  asked  him  what  game  he  hunts.  He  replied                                                               
MR.  DICK  BISHOP, Fairbanks,  supported  SB  298. It's  time  to                                                               
recognize that the  potential affects on lands and  waters can be                                                               
regulated under other statutes.                                                                                                 
SENATOR THERRIAULT asked  him for examples of  other statutes and                                                               
regulations  that  could  be  used to  mitigate  the  impacts  of                                                               
increased access.                                                                                                               
MR.  BISHOP said  the Board  of Game  and the  Division of  Sport                                                               
Fisheries (DSF)  could use their  regulations and  the Department                                                               
of  Natural Resources  (DNR) has  land management  authority over                                                               
state lands.                                                                                                                    
MR.  RAYMOND  PANEAK,  Anaktuvik  Pass  hunter,  opposed  SB  298                                                               
because  the added  hunting  competition  would have  detrimental                                                               
affects on the caribou herds  and their wintering grounds. He was                                                               
also concerned about ATVs destroying the tundra.                                                                                
SENATOR LINCOLN  asked him  to explain  how opening  the corridor                                                               
would affect his village.                                                                                                       
MR. PANEAK responded that subsistence  hunters and trappers would                                                               
be adversely affected. "We're going to have problems."                                                                          
SENATOR LINCOLN asked  Mr. Paneak if he was speaking  for all the                                                               
people of Anaktuvik Pass.                                                                                                       
MR. PANEAK replied  that he is speaking for  his village, Nuiqsut                                                               
and  all the  villages in  his area.  They use  the same  caribou                                                               
MR.  MATT ROBUS,  Director,  Division  of Wildlife  Conservation,                                                               
Alaska  Department  of Fish  and  Game  (ADF&G), said  he  wasn't                                                               
taking a  position on this  bill at this  time, but he  wanted to                                                               
present   some  wildlife   considerations  for   the  committee's                                                               
     Foremost of  these would be  management of  the Central                                                                    
     Arctic caribou  herd. At present that  herd can sustain                                                                    
     a  maximum allowable  harvest  of  about 1,500  animals                                                                    
     annually.   If   the   taking  of   the   ORV   vehicle                                                                    
     restrictions were  to stimulate  a very  large increase                                                                    
     in hunting  effort, we could  be in the  position where                                                                    
     the Board of  Game would have to  consider using season                                                                    
     and bag  limit restrictions or some  other mechanism to                                                                    
     restrict hunting pressure to  be at an allowable level.                                                                    
     If that became  restrictive of subsistence opportunity,                                                                    
     you  could   see  either  the  state   or  the  federal                                                                    
     subsistence process start  to distinguish between which                                                                    
     hunters  could participate  in  that  hunt.... We  have                                                                    
     some similar considerations for  Dall Sheep and musk ox                                                                    
     seasons along  the Haul Road because  those populations                                                                    
     cannot sustain large increases  in the hunting pressure                                                                    
     from where they are at presently.                                                                                          
MR. ROBUS said the Board of Game  has used other tools and one of                                                               
those is  a regulation that is  currently in effect for  a Dalton                                                               
Highway management area  that goes from the Yukon  River north to                                                               
Dead  Horse. That  regulation, which  was  promulgated under  the                                                               
state's wildlife management statutes,  AS 16.05.255, would remain                                                               
in  effect  even if  this  statute  were repealed.  As  presently                                                               
written,  that  regulation  tightly   controls  the  use  of  any                                                               
motorized  vehicle  with  exceptions  for hunting  and  does  not                                                               
restrict it at all for trapping.                                                                                                
     Use of motorized vehicles to  assist trapping is within                                                                    
     bounds  under  our   regulation.  However,  hunting  is                                                                    
     restricted to  bow and arrow  within five miles  of the                                                                    
     highway and  motorized vehicles are  not allowed  to be                                                                    
     used  unless they  are airplanes,  boats or  a licensed                                                                    
     highway vehicle  on a  publicly maintained  road. Those                                                                    
     can be  adjusted one way or  the other by the  Board of                                                                    
     Game,   but   those   are  the   type   of   management                                                                    
     restrictions  that  have been  put  into  place by  the                                                                    
     board to mediate  the amount of hunting  that occurs in                                                                    
     that part of the  state. That's for biological reasons.                                                                    
     If that does  stay in affect, I want to  point out that                                                                    
     that  would   only  restrict  hunting  and   would  not                                                                    
     restrict the use of off-road  vehicles (ORVs) for other                                                                    
     purposes for  anything from mining to  berry picking, I                                                                    
     suppose.  So, we  could still  have  some effects  from                                                                    
     repealing this statute in terms of harassment of game.                                                                     
He  pointed  out that  the  regulatory  system along  the  Dalton                                                               
Highway is very tangled and  urged caution in undoing everything,                                                               
because it could  lead to using regulations to  cure impacts that                                                               
would be more painful to live with than what there is now.                                                                      
SENATOR LINCOLN  said she thought  more law enforcement  would be                                                               
needed  because of  the harassment  and killing  of animals  that                                                               
might already  be in scarce  supply. She asked how  many troopers                                                               
were in the area now and how many would be needed.                                                                              
MR.  ROBUS replied  that the  Bureau of  Wildlife Enforcement  is                                                               
recruiting for  a position to  be filled in  Coldfoot. Typically,                                                               
one trooper  has been  in that  post. "I think  it's safe  to say                                                               
that if you have more  hunting activity and more hunting pressure                                                               
or other forms of interaction  with wildlife, you would also have                                                               
more enforcement need."                                                                                                         
SENATOR  SEEKINS asked  if he  found a  negative impact  on moose                                                               
herds  from the  use of  all  terrain vehicles  in the  Talkeetna                                                               
MR. ROBUS  replied that issue is  debated and he didn't  have any                                                               
documented effects. Some people think  there are fewer places for                                                               
game  to take  refuge  in  Unit 13.  His  point  is that  vehicle                                                               
restriction is a  management tool that is used by  the board that                                                               
would have  to go to another  tool if game herds  were negatively                                                               
impacted.  Of  all  the  uses   that  might  occur,  he  couldn't                                                               
speculate on how  much activity would be related  to hunting, but                                                               
probably a lot.                                                                                                                 
SENATOR SEEKINS  pointed out  that that area  is so  remote, that                                                               
people  have to  be wealthy  enough to  fly in  to access  it. It                                                               
seems to  him that there  shouldn't be exclusive access  to lands                                                               
in the state of Alaska.                                                                                                         
SENATOR LINCOLN  said she  is very familiar  with the  road since                                                               
she uses it a lot in the summer.                                                                                                
     There hasn't been a place  that I have pulled over that                                                                    
     I haven't seen oil drums  and oil cans and garbage cans                                                                    
     and diapers. There  is an immense amount  of garbage on                                                                    
     that  highway. During  moose hunting  season I  think I                                                                    
     counted  almost 400  trailers that  were parked  by the                                                                    
     bridge up  there. We have  put out fires on  both sides                                                                    
     of the river from people  who were careless.... I would                                                                    
     expect  if  that  corridor were  opened  -  and  public                                                                    
     safety  is  a real  concern  -  enforcement is  a  real                                                                    
     concern. There just isn't the  enforcement up there now                                                                    
     to accommodate the traffic that's there....                                                                                
TAPE 04-6, SIDE A                                                                                                             
SENATOR  LINCOLN said  she  would  like to  think  that the  good                                                               
citizens of  the state of Alaska  would leave that area  the same                                                               
way it  was when they  arrived, but she  can attest that  that is                                                               
not the case.                                                                                                                   
SENATOR SEEKINS  said he  travels the Haul  Road, too,  and knows                                                               
that  hundreds of  trucks travel  it  every week  and he  thought                                                               
their use should be accommodated.                                                                                               
     Just to say  that because someone else in  the past may                                                                    
     have  not been  sensitive to  how they  got rid  of oil                                                                    
     cans or anything else, in  my opinion, is not reason to                                                                    
     limit the people of the  state of Alaska to have access                                                                    
     to millions  of acres of  lands and  to be able  to use                                                                    
     those  lands responsibly.  I think  we can  accommodate                                                                    
     both uses....                                                                                                              
CO-CHAIR WAGONER  said there  would be  an additional  hearing on                                                               
this bill  and closed today's  hearing. He adjourned  the meeting                                                               
at 3:25 p.m.                                                                                                                    

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