Legislature(1993 - 1994)

03/31/1994 03:38 PM TRA

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
                SENATE TRANSPORTATION COMMITTEE                                
                         March 31, 1994                                        
                           3:38 p.m.                                           
                                                                               
  MEMBERS PRESENT                                                              
                                                                               
 Senator Bert Sharp, Chair                                                     
 Senator Tim Kelly                                                             
 Senator Jay Kerttula                                                          
                                                                               
  MEMBERS ABSENT                                                               
                                                                               
 Senator Randy Phillips, Vice Chair                                            
 Senator Georgianna Lincoln                                                    
                                                                               
  COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                           
                                                                               
 SENATE BILL NO. 327                                                           
 "An Act amending the motor fuel tax to establish a different tax              
 levy on residual fuel oil used in and on watercraft; and providing            
 for an effective date."                                                       
                                                                               
 SENATE BILL NO. 343                                                           
 "An Act relating to the operation of courtesy cars at certain                 
 airports."                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATE RESOLUTION NO. 4                                                       
 Requesting the federal government to reduce automobile emissions              
 inspections in Alaska to every two years.                                     
                                                                               
 SENATE BILL NO. 227                                                           
 "An Act relating to terminal rental adjustment clauses for motor              
 vehicles and trailers."                                                       
                                                                               
 CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 407(STA)                                                
 "An Act relating to issuance of commemorative gold rush motor                 
 vehicle license plates; and providing for an effective date."                 
                                                                               
  PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION                                             
                                                                               
 SB 327 - See Transportation minutes dated 3/10/94.                            
                                                                               
 SB 343 - No previous senate committee action.                                 
                                                                               
 SR 4 - No previous senate committee action.                                   
                                                                               
 SB 227 - See State Affairs minutes dated 2/16/94 and Labor &                  
          Commerce minutes dated 3/10/94.                                      
                                                                               
 HB 407 - No previous senate committee action.                                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
 WITNESS REGISTER                                                              
                                                                               
 Gary Paxton, City Administrator                                               
 City & Borough of Sitka                                                       
 304 Lake Street, Sitka, AK 99835¶747-3294                                     
  POSITION STATEMENT:  in favor of SB 327                                      
                                                                               
 Jim Burns, Senior Vice President                                              
 Marketing                                                                     
 Petro Marine Services                                                         
 3111 C St., Suite 500, Anchorage, AK 99503¶562-5000                           
  POSITION STATEMENT:  in favor of SB 327                                      
                                                                               
 Dan Coffey, Co-Owner                                                          
 Dollar Rent-a-Car                                                             
 207 E. Northern Lights, #200, Anchorage, AK 99503¶274-3385                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:  in favor of SB 343                                      
                                                                               
 Helvi K. Sandvik, Deputy Commissioner                                         
 Department of Transportation & Public Facilities                              
 3132 Channel Drive, Juneau, AK 99801-7898¶465-6973                            
  POSITION STATEMENT:  opposes SB 327                                          
                                                                               
 Gary Zimmerman                                                                
 Alaskan Rent-a-Car, Inc.,                                                     
 Avis                                                                          
 P.O. Box 190028, Anchorage, AK 99519¶243-4300                                 
  POSITION STATEMENT:  opposes SB 343                                          
                                                                               
 Glenn Holdahl                                                                 
 Hertz Corporation                                                             
 4555 Int'l Airport Rd., Anchorage, AK 99502¶243-3376                          
  POSITION STATEMENT:  opposes SB 343                                          
                                                                               
 Teresa Winter                                                                 
 Budget Rent-a-Car                                                             
 2580 W. 50th Ave., Anchorage, AK 99502¶243-6750                               
  POSITION STATEMENT:  opposes SB 343                                          
                                                                               
 Bernie Smith                                                                  
 Tesoro Alaska Petroleum Company                                               
 P.O. Box 3369, Kenai, AK 99611¶776-8191                                       
  POSITION STATEMENT:  in favor of SB 327                                      
                                                                               
 Leonard Verrelli, Chief                                                       
 Air Quality Management Section                                                
 Department of Environmental Conservation                                      
 410 Willoughby Ave., Suite 105, Juneau, AK 99801-1795¶465-5100                
  POSITION STATEMENT:  testified on SR 4                                       
                                                                               
                                                                               
 ACTION NARRATIVE                                                              
                                                                               
 TAPE 94-10, SIDE A                                                            
 Number 001                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN SHARP calls the Senate Transportation Committee meeting to           
 order at 3:38 p.m.                                                            
                                                                               
 Number 006                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN SHARP brings up SB 327 (TAX ON RESIDUAL MARINE FUEL OIL)             
 as the first order of business before the Senate Transportation               
 Committee and notes the presence of a proposed committee                      
 substitute.                                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 021                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR KERTTULA makes a motion to adopt the CSSB 237(TRA) in lieu            
 of the original bill.                                                         
                                                                               
 Number 023                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN SHARP acknowledges the motion and says it will be approved           
 when the committee has a quorum.  The chairman calls Mr. Paxton to            
 testify and asks Mr. Paxton if he has the committee substitute in             
 front of him.                                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 030                                                                    
                                                                               
 GARY PAXTON, City Administrator for the City & Borough of Sitka,              
 testifying from Sitka, replies he does have the cs in front of him.           
 Mr. Paxton states he submitted a letter to the committee on behalf            
 of the City & Borough of Sitka.  Mr. Paxton highlights several                
 aspects of that letter.                                                       
                                                                               
 SENATOR KERTTULA asks Mr. Paxton how much local tax the City &                
 Borough of Sitka will add if the legislature reduces the state tax.           
                                                                               
 Number 078                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. PAXTON replies the intention of the City & Borough of Sitka is            
 not to add a local tax, except for the local sales tax.  There is             
 a cap on the local sales tax of 1,000$.                                       
                                                                               
 Number 085                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN SHARP thanks Mr. Paxton for his testimony and calls the              
 next witness.                                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 088                                                                    
                                                                               
 JIM BURNS, Senior Vice President for Marketing, Petro Marine                  
 Service (PMS), testifying from Anchorage, states he has testified             
 previously on SB 327 and supports the committee substitute.  Mr.              
 Burns says he would be happy to answer any questions committee                
 members might have.                                                           
                                                                               
 Number 095                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN SHARP asks if there are any questions for Mr. Burns.                 
 Hearing none, the chairman refers people to the sectional analysis            
 of the cs for explanation of the changes to the bill.  The cs                 
 guarantees that the state will continue to receive the present                
 amount of revenue of 205,000$ before the tax is reduced from 5                
 cents to 1 cent.  It would be done on a refundable basis by the               
 Department of Revenue.  The bill defines passenger watercraft and             
 residual fuel oil.  It also establishes an immediate effective date           
 and a sunset date of June 30, 1998.  Those are the primary changes            
 that were desired by the committee at the last meeting.   The                 
 chairman asks if anyone else wishes to testify.                               
                                                                               
 SENATOR KERTTULA makes a motion to discharge CSSB 327(TRA) from the           
 Senate Transportation Committee.                                              
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN SHARP says the bill will be moved when the committee gets            
 a quorum.  In the meantime, the bill will be set aside.                       
 Number 115                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN SHARP brings up SB 343 (COURTESY CARS OPERATED AT                    
 AIRPORTS) as the next order of business before the Senate                     
 Transportation Committee meeting.  The chairman calls the first               
 witness.                                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 127                                                                    
                                                                               
 DAN COFFEY, Co-Owner, Dollar Rent-a-Car, testifying from Anchorage,           
 states Dollar Rent-a-Car supports SB 343.  Mr. Coffey supports the            
 changes being worked on in the house legislation, which would state           
 the department would not be able to impose a charge or a fee based            
 on the revenue of a business located outside the terminal area              
 which operates a courtesy car.  Dollar Rent-a-Car supports those              
 changes because they think a tax of 8% of the gross revenue of                
 their business from the airport is a confiscatory rate of taxation.           
 For comparison, in-terminal rental agencies receive a counter,                
 covered parking for rental vehicles, uncovered parking, and all the           
 benefits associated with being on-terminal for a fee of                       
 approximately 9.1% of their gross revenues.  For only a 1.1% higher           
 fee, the in-airport agencies receive disproportionately higher                
 benefits.  The off-airport rental agencies would not be opposed to            
 a permitting system or a fee system, if it were imposed relative to           
 the benefits received.  We view SB 343 as an effort by the airport            
 and the on-airport agencies to protect their turf.                            
                                                                               
 MR. COFFEY states the airport is, unfortunately, looking towards              
 small business to make up their revenue shortfall, and is doing it            
 in a manner which is very onerous to the small business operator.             
                                                                               
 Number 198                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN SHARP asks if there are any questions for Mr. Coffey from            
 committee members.  Hearing none, the chairman calls a                        
 representative from the Department of Transportation & Public                 
 Facilities (DOT) to testify.                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 212                                                                    
                                                                               
 HELVI SANDVIK, Deputy Commissioner, Department of Transportation,             
 states she is representing the airports in this particular case.              
 Ms. Sandvik states DOT has submitted a position paper and a zero              
 fiscal note on SB 343.  In reanalyzing SB 343, Ms. Sandvik has                
 concluded that there will probably be a slight fiscal impact of               
 about 6,000$ per year to collect the fees with an initial start-up            
 cost of about 25,000$.  DOT is opposed to the bill, primarily                 
 because they believe it interferes with the airports responsibility           
 to assess fees to those companies that derive a benefit from the              
 airport.                                                                      
                                                                               
 MS. SANDVIK states this issue has been upheld in every court of               
 law, including the United States Supreme Court that this is a fee,            
 and is distinct from a tax.  Her basic understanding of the                   
 distinction, as determined by the U.S. Supreme Court, is that a tax           
 applies to revenues that would be thrown into the general fund,               
 whereas a fee, as in this particular case, would go into the                  
 International Airport Revenue Fund for payment of the maintenance             
 and operations of the airport or public facility.                             
                                                                               
 Number 232                                                                    
                                                                               
 MS. SANDVIK states SB 343 would essentially expand the definition             
 of a courtesy car to include car rental vehicles that pick up                 
 customers at the airport.  Across the country there has been                  
 significant competition by off-airport agencies.  She believes it             
 is inappropriate to say that the benefit derived by off-airport               
 operators is limited to the curb where they pick up customers.                
 They do advertise in the airport.  Currently, there is a 25$ per              
 year permit fee assessed to courtesy vehicles.  That fee is paid by           
 all courtesy vehicles, airport, car rental agencies, etcetera.                
 Number 263                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN SHARP asks Ms. Sandvik if there will be room for an                  
 expanded number of car rental agencies to bid and receive on-                 
 airport counter space.                                                        
                                                                               
 MS. SANDVIK replies the Anchorage Airport is expanding from six               
 counter spaces to seven for the next bid period.  There is room in            
 the airport to expand the counter space, but DOT does not believe             
 it would be appropriate to create space to fill all the demand.               
 Ms. Sandvik thinks it would be appropriate to delay the creation of           
 more space at least a year or two, because it comes into play with            
 a competitive environment.                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 274                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN SHARP asks Ms. Sandvik if the present on-airport rental              
 agencies pay the same percentage of gross revenues.                           
                                                                               
 MS. SANDVIK responds they do not.  It is her understanding the                
 amount is based on a sliding scale according to their level of                
 business.  She is not familiar with the details.  She trusts Mr.              
 Coffey's figure of an average amount being about 9.1% of gross                
 revenue.                                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 281                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN SHARP asks if there is any indication how many agencies              
 plan to submit bids for counter space during the next bid period.             
                                                                               
 MS. SANDVIK replies DOT's assessment of demand is that the seven              
 counter spaces will adequately address those companies interested             
 in bidding for on-airport space in Anchorage.  She will add that              
 the Fairbanks counter spaces were up for bid recently, and there is           
 now a vacant counter space there because a rental agency that was             
 formerly on airport, chose to move off-airport during the last                
 bidding period.                                                               
                                                                               
 Number 295                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN SHARP asks how the sliding scale works.                              
                                                                               
 MS. SANDVIK responds there is a lesser fee for off-airport                    
 agencies, and DOT intends to impose a fee of 8% of gross revenues.            
 That is directly applied to those passengers the agencies pick up             
 at the airport.  The off-airport agencies will need to distinguish            
 between business originating from the airport, and business                   
 originating from another source.                                              
                                                                               
 Number 301                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR SHARP asks if there are further questions from committee              
 members.  The chairman announces he does not intend to move SB 343            
 from committee until he can see what work was done on the subject             
 in the house.  The chairman calls the next witness.                           
                                                                               
 Number 313                                                                    
                                                                               
 GARY ZIMMERMAN, Alaskan Rent-a-Car Inc., which is the Alaska                  
 franchise for Avis, testifying from Anchorage, reads a prepared               
 statement.                                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 351                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR KELLY asks Mr. Zimmerman if Avis pays rent for counter                
 space and or parking spaces.                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 354                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. ZIMMERMAN responds that they do pay rent for their space on a             
 sliding scale of a percentage of their revenue, and also pay a fee            
 for counter space based on square footage.  For parking space, it             
 is 55$ per space per month.                                                   
                                                                               
 SENATOR KELLY asks if Mr. Zimmerman pays a separate rental fee for            
 the space in the airport building.                                            
                                                                               
 MR. ZIMMERMAN replies they do pay a rental fee separate from the              
 percentage of their gross revenue that they pay to the airport.               
 The on-airport rental agencies are basically paying three different           
 fees.                                                                         
                                                                               
 SENATOR KELLY asks Mr. Zimmerman if it wouldn't be advantageous,              
 with all the fees his company has to pay to the airport, to move              
 off airport.                                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 365                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. ZIMMERMAN responds his company does not feel it would be                  
 advantageous to be off airport.                                               
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN SHARP thanks Mr Zimmerman for his testimony and calls the            
 next witness.                                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 373                                                                    
                                                                               
 GLENN HOLDAHL, Representative for Hertz Corporation, testifying               
 from Anchorage, reads a prepared statement.                                   
                                                                               
 SENATOR KERTTULA adds that airports are not entirely self-                    
 supporting and do get considerable government subsidies.                      
                                                                               
 Number 413                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN SHARP asks if there are any questions for Mr. Holdahl.               
 Hearing none, he calls the next witness.                                      
                                                                               
 Number 415                                                                    
                                                                               
 TERESA WINTER, Budget Rent-a-Car, testifying from Anchorage, states           
 Budget Rent-a-Car is opposed to SB 343.  Budget feels that the                
 airport generates customers for off-airport rental agencies, and              
 they should pay a fee for that.  It is unfair for on-airport                  
 agencies.                                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 420                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN SHARP thanks Ms. Winter for her testimony and notes there            
 is no one else who wishes to testify.                                         
                                                                               
 Number 427                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR KELLY makes an observation that when he rents a car in                
 Anchorage, he goes directly to the airport rental agencies, and               
 never goes to an off-airport agency.  It is easier for him to do              
 so.                                                                           
                                                                               
 SENATOR KERTTULA adds he also rents only from on-airport agencies.            
                                                                               
 Number 433                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN SHARP thanks people for their testimony and announces the            
 committee will hold SB 343 to work on possible amendments.                    
 Number 435                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN SHARP brings SB 327 (TAX ON RESIDUAL MARINE FUEL OIL) back           
 up before the Senate Transportation Committee and notes there is a            
 motion pending for adoption of the committee substitute (cs).                 
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN SHARP, hearing no objection to the adoption of the cs,               
 notes it has been adopted in lieu of the original bill.                       
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN SHARP calls Mr. Smith to testify.                                    
                                                                               
 Number 447                                                                    
                                                                               
 BERNIE SMITH, Tesoro Alaska Petroleum Company, testifying from                
 Soldotna, states Tesoro does support SB 327.  It will be good for             
 the economy of the Kenai Peninsula.  That concludes Mr. Smith's               
 testimony; he would be happy to answer any questions.                         
                                                                               
 Number 452                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN SHARP thanks Mr. Smith.  The chairman comments he thinks             
 the bill will do two things: open the door for selling more                   
 residual fuel, and still guarantee the state revenue.                         
                                                                               
 SENATOR KERTTULA makes a motion to discharge SB 327 from the Senate           
 Transportation Committee with individual recommendations.                     
                                                                               
 Number 458                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN SHARP, hearing no objection, orders SB 327 released from             
 committee with individual recommendations.                                    
 Number 459                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN SHARP brings up SR 4 (MOTOR VEHICLE EMISSION INSPECTION)             
 as the next order of business before the Senate Transportation                
 Committee.  The chairman calls a representative from the prime                
 sponsor's office to testify.                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 463                                                                    
                                                                               
 MICHAEL FINKELSTEIN, Aide, Senator Donley, reads the sponsor                  
 statement on SR 4.                                                            
                                                                               
 Number 480                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR KERTTULA comments SR 4 makes sense to him.                            
                                                                               
 Number 487                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR KELLY asks if there isn't a requirement in California to              
 put an emissions control package on new cars sold in the state.  He           
 wonders if the California figures might not be applicable to                  
 Alaska.                                                                       
                                                                               
 Number 490                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR KERTTULA thinks it might make sense anyway to not burden              
 the system with inspections every year.                                       
                                                                               
 Number 494                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN SHARP asks if there are any more questions for Mr.                   
 Finkelstein.  Hearing none, he calls a representative from the                
 Department of Environmental Conservation to testify.                          
                                                                               
 Number 500                                                                    
                                                                               
 LEONARD VERRELLI, Chief, Air Quality Management Section, Department           
 of Environmental Conservation (DEC) says SR 4 conflicts with plans            
 submitted by Anchorage and Fairbanks to the Environmental                     
 Protection Agency (EPA).  Anchorage and Fairbanks' programs are               
 based on a stringency factor that requires that the automobiles be            
 checked annually.  SR 4 would be construed by EPA as a relaxation             
 to the applications submitted just days ago.                                  
                                                                               
 MR. VERRELLI states that two year emissions testing programs are              
 not without controversy, and California is not the bellwether of              
 emissions testing programs for Alaska.  DEC does not recommend                
 passing this resolution unless it is modified in some way so that             
 it appears to be credible as far as Anchorage and Fairbanks'                  
 proposals to meet emissions reduction criteria.                               
 Number 525                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. VERRELLI also says he begs to differ with the sponsor's                   
 assertion that vehicle emissions would stay in calibration for two            
 years.  The EPA has tested hundreds of thousands of tests, and nine           
 months to a year is probably the maximum that a car will stay in              
 tune.  Newer cars are getting better, but the majority of cars in             
 Alaska are still elderly.  SR 4 could be strengthened to offer the            
 EPA something in exchange for a two-year emissions test.  But that            
 would put a burden on Anchorage and Fairbanks to come up with                 
 strategies which may be onerous to meet the reductions.                       
                                                                               
 Number 534                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR KERTTULA notes SR 4 is just a simple resolution, so it does           
 not have the strength of a formal conveyance.                                 
                                                                               
 MR. VERRELLI says he just wants the committee to be aware that                
 SR 4 does conflict with the proposals submitted to the EPA by                 
 Anchorage and Fairbanks.                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 541                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR KELLY asks Mr. Verrelli that, if the EPA was to allow two             
 year emissions testing, Anchorage and Fairbanks wouldn't take                 
 advantage of that.                                                            
                                                                               
 MR. VERRELLI replies that the EPA couldn't authorize two year                 
 registration or inspections at this point in time, unless both                
 Anchorage and Fairbanks did something to replace the reductions               
 that are gained by the one year inspection program.                           
                                                                               
 Number 545                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR KELLY asks if SR 4 is asking the federal government to go             
 from one year inspections to two year inspections.                            
                                                                               
 Several people answer that is correct.                                        
                                                                               
 SENATOR KELLY states, if that change is made, then Anchorage and              
 Fairbanks would no longer be required to have inspections every               
 year.                                                                         
                                                                               
 MR. VERRELLI responds that, without an annual registration, there             
 would not be enough credit for Anchorage and Fairbanks to meet the            
 required air quality standards.                                               
                                                                               
 Number 553                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR KERTTULA suggests that, by deleting lines 14 and 15 on page           
 one, SR 4 might not be in conflict with the proposals just                    
 submitted to the EPA by Anchorage and Fairbanks.  Senator Kerttula            
 proposes an amendment to delete that language.                                
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN SHARP, hearing no objection, notes that Senator Kerttula's           
 amendment has been adopted.  The chairman asks the pleasure of the            
 committee.                                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 564                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR KERTTULA makes a motion to discharge SR 4 from the Senate             
 Transportation Committee with individual recommendations.                     
                                                                               
 Number 566                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN SHARP, hearing no objection, orders SR 4 released from               
 committee with individual recommendations.                                    
 Number 568                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN SHARP brings up SB 227 (MOTOR VEHICLE RENTAL TERMS) as the           
 next item of business before the Senate Transportation Committee.             
                                                                               
 SENATOR KERTTULA, the prime sponsor of SB 227, calls one of his               
 aides to testify.                                                             
                                                                               
 Number 573                                                                    
                                                                               
 BILL KELDER, Aide to Senator Kerttula, reads the sponsor statement            
 for SB 227.  Mr. Kelder states no one has spoken in opposition to             
 the bill so far.  He believes it will enhance commerce.  SB 227 has           
 zero fiscal notes.  Twenty states already have similar statutes in            
 place.  The absence of this law has created some confusion in the             
 courts as to where the assets belong in a bankruptcy case.                    
                                                                               
 TAPE 94-10, SIDE B                                                            
 Number 594                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN SHARP asks if there are any questions.  Hearing none, he             
 asks the pleasure of the committee.                                           
                                                                               
 Number 593                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR KERTTULA makes a motion to discharge SB 227 from the Senate           
 Transportation Committee with individual recommendations.                     
                                                                               
 Number 591                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN SHARP, hearing no objection, orders SB 227 released from             
 committee with individual recommendations.                                    
 Number 589                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN SHARP brings up HB 407 (COMMEMORATIVE GOLD RUSH LICENSE              
 PLATES) as the next order of business before the Senate                       
 Transportation Committee.                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 587                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR KELLY makes a motion to discharge HB 407 from the Senate              
 Transportation Committee with individual recommendations.                     
                                                                               
 Number 586                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN SHARP, hearing no objection, orders HB 407 released from             
 committee with individual recommendations.                                    
 Number 582                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN SHARP adjourns the Senate Transportation Committee at 4:26           
 p.m.                                                                          
                                                                               

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