Legislature(2023 - 2024)BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)

02/29/2024 03:30 PM Senate STATE AFFAIRS

Note: the audio and video recordings are distinct records and are obtained from different sources. As such there may be key differences between the two. The audio recordings are captured by our records offices as the official record of the meeting and will have more accurate timestamps. Use the icons to switch between them.

Download Mp3. <- Right click and save file as

Audio Topic
03:32:11 PM Start
03:32:53 PM SJR15
03:49:39 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
*+ SJR 15 CONST. AM: VOTES NEEDED FOR VETO OVERRIDE TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
-- Invited & Public Testimony --
**Streamed live on AKL.tv**
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
            SENATE STATE AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                           
                       February 29, 2024                                                                                        
                           3:32 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Scott Kawasaki, Chair                                                                                                   
Senator Matt Claman, Vice Chair                                                                                                 
Senator Bill Wielechowski                                                                                                       
Senator Kelly Merrick                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                              
Senator Jesse Bjorkman                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 15                                                                                                  
Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the State of                                                                      
Alaska relating to actions upon veto.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD & HELD                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SJR 15                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: CONST. AM: VOTES NEEDED FOR VETO OVERRIDE                                                                          
SPONSOR(s): SENATOR(s) CLAMAN                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
02/19/24       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
02/19/24       (S)       STA                                                                                                    
02/29/24       (S)       STA AT 3:30 PM BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR CLAMAN, District 21                                                                                                     
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of SJR 15.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
BREANNA KAKARUK, Staff                                                                                                          
Senator Matt Claman                                                                                                             
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented the sectional analysis for SJR 15.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
ANN RAPPOPORT, representing self                                                                                                
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 15.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
KALEB CALLAHAN, representing self                                                                                               
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 15.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:32:11 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  SCOTT KAWASAKI  called the  Senate  State Affairs  Standing                                                            
Committee meeting  to order  at 3:32 p.m.  Present at the  call to                                                              
order were Senators  Claman, Merrick, and Chair  Kawasaki. Senator                                                              
Wielechowski arrived thereafter.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
        SJR 15-CONST. AM: VOTES NEEDED FOR VETO OVERRIDE                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:32:53 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR KAWASAKI announced the consideration of SENATE JOINT                                                                      
RESOLUTION NO. 15 Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of                                                                 
the State of Alaska relating to actions upon veto.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:33:21 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR CLAMAN, District 21, Alaska State Legislature, Juneau,                                                                  
Alaska, presented SJR 15:                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
[Original punctuation provided.]                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
                   Senate Joint Resolution 15                                                                                 
                                                                                                                              
                  Sponsor Statement  Version A                                                                                
                                                                                                                              
       "Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the                                                                       
        State of Alaska relating to actions upon veto."                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Senate   Joint  Resolution   15  Sectional  Analysis                                                                       
     Version  A Section 1  The Constitution  of the State  of                                                                   
     Alaska.  Article  II,  Section 16.  Deletes  the  three-                                                                   
     fourth   vote  requirement   for   the  legislature   to                                                                   
     override vetoes  for revenue and appropriation  bills or                                                                   
     items.   Changes   the   vote    requirement   for   the                                                                   
     legislature   to  override   vetoes   for  revenue   and                                                                   
     appropriation  bills  or  items  to  a  two-third  vote.                                                                   
     Section  2 The  Constitution  of  the State  of  Alaska.                                                                   
     Conforms  with Article  XIII,  Section 1  of the  Alaska                                                                   
     Constitution  and the  state  election laws  to put  the                                                                   
     amendment   proposed    by   this   resolution    before                                                                   
     registered  voters in the  State of  Alaska at the  next                                                                   
     general election.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Senate Joint  Resolution 15  amends the Constitution  of                                                                   
     the  State of  Alaska  by  changing the  requirement  to                                                                   
     override a  veto on revenue  and appropriation  bills or                                                                   
     items  from three-fourths  of  the legislature  to  two-                                                                   
     thirds of  the legislature  in joint session.  If Senate                                                                   
     Joint  Resolution 15  passes  the legislature,  it  will                                                                   
     put  the   resolution  on  the  ballot   for  registered                                                                   
     Alaskan   voters  to  consider   in  the  next   general                                                                   
     election.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     According  to Alaska's Constitution:  A Citizen's  Guide                                                                   
     published  by  the Legislative  Affairs  Agency,  "[f]ew                                                                   
     other  states  make  the  distinction   between  a  bill                                                                   
     dealing  with  substantive   law  and  an  appropriation                                                                   
      bill." Alaska may be the only state that has a three-                                                                     
     fourths requirement  to override the governor's  veto on                                                                   
     revenue and appropriation matters.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Amending  this   provision  in  our  constitution   will                                                                   
     strengthen  the  legislature  and improve  the  public's                                                                   
     ability   to   influence   executive   and   legislative                                                                   
     decisions on revenue matters.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:35:36 PM                                                                                                                    
BREANNA   KAKARUK,    Staff,   Senator   Claman,    Alaska   State                                                              
Legislature, Juneau, Alaska, presented the sectional analysis                                                                   
for SJR 15:                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
[Original punctuation provided.]                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
                   Senate Joint Resolution 15                                                                                 
                 Sectional Analysis  Version A                                                                                
                                                                                                                              
     Section 1                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                              
     The  Constitution of  the State of  Alaska. Article  II,                                                                   
     Section 16.                                                                                                                
     Deletes  the  three-fourth   vote  requirement  for  the                                                                   
     legislature   to  override   vetoes   for  revenue   and                                                                   
     appropriation   bills  or   items.   Changes  the   vote                                                                   
     requirement for  the legislature to override  vetoes for                                                                   
       revenue and appropriation bills or items to a two-                                                                       
     third vote.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Section 2                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                              
     The Constitution of the State of Alaska.                                                                                   
     Conforms  with Article  XIII,  Section 1  of the  Alaska                                                                   
     Constitution  and the  state  election laws  to put  the                                                                   
     amendment   proposed    by   this   resolution    before                                                                   
     registered  voters in the  State of  Alaska at the  next                                                                   
     general election.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:36:07 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR KAWASAKI inquired  about the number of votes  needed in both                                                              
legislative  chambers  for  the  passage  of SJR  15  during  this                                                              
legislative session.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:36:30 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR CLAMAN  responded that the  Senate would require  14 votes                                                              
or two-thirds,  while  the House  would require  27 votes  or two-                                                              
thirds.  If both  bodies  vote to  approve  SJR  15, the  governor                                                              
would not have any  say in the matter. The legislation  would then                                                              
proceed to  the ballot. If  a majority  of Alaskans vote  in favor                                                              
of SJR 15, the Constitution would be amended.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:37:01 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  MERRICK   said  there  is  a  two-thirds   threshold  for                                                              
legislation.  The  governor could  veto  the legislation  and  the                                                              
legislature  could   override  the  veto.  She  wondered   if  the                                                              
governor could  still veto  the appropriation effectively  vetoing                                                              
SJR 15.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:37:30 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR CLAMAN replied  that if there were a  fiscal note attached                                                              
to  the  legislation, it  would  not  be  considered part  of  the                                                              
legislation  itself. Overriding  a veto on  the budget  bill would                                                              
necessitate a three-quarter vote.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
3:37:50 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR MERRICK  clarified that  since SB 140  was passed  by both                                                              
bodies, the  governor can now  sign, veto, or  let it go  into law                                                              
without his  signature. However,  when the appropriations  bill is                                                              
submitted,  the governor  could  line-item veto  the Base  Student                                                              
Allocation  (BSA)   money,  etcetera.   She  inquired   about  the                                                              
implementation  of the  law under  SB 140  in the  absence of  any                                                              
funding.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:38:27 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  CLAMAN  responded  that  it  is  his  understanding  that                                                              
fiscal notes  on SB 140  would be attached  to the budget  when it                                                              
passes.  Therefore,  the  budget  would be  subject  to  line-item                                                              
vetoes and a potential veto by the governor.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:39:07 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR KAWASAKI  asked for confirmation  of his understanding  that                                                              
the governor  could veto the legislative  intent behind SB  140 by                                                              
choosing not to allocate funding for the bill.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:39:21 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR CLAMAN clarified  that several years ago,  legislation had                                                              
established  a specific  amount  for the  Permanent Fund  Dividend                                                              
(PFD),  and the  legislature  consistently  appropriated funds  in                                                              
accordance  with  that  formula.  He recounted  an  incident  when                                                              
Governor Walker  initially exercised a line-item  veto to decrease                                                              
that  amount.  Overriding  that  veto would  have  necessitated  a                                                              
three-quarter vote.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:40:02 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR   CLAMAN   stated   that    Senator   Merrick's   question                                                              
underscores the  value of having  the same override  threshold for                                                              
both  financial and  legislative  matters, as  it would  eliminate                                                              
confusion.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:40:21 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR KAWASAKI opened public testimony SJR 15.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:41:27 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI joined the meeting.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:40:42 PM                                                                                                                    
ANN  RAPPOPORT, representing  self,  Anchorage, Alaska,  testified                                                              
in  support of  SJR 15.  She  said with  swift  approval from  the                                                              
legislature, SJR 15  could be presented to voters  in the upcoming                                                              
general  election  later  this year.  Alaska  stands  alone  among                                                              
states in having  a high bar to overturn a governor's  veto, which                                                              
is  never met  in highly  divided  times. When  there is  majority                                                              
support  for a  revenue item,  it  demonstrates strong  bipartisan                                                              
support, which  is ample to override  a governor's veto.  The high                                                              
threshold  grants the  governor  excessive  authority. A  previous                                                              
Alaskan  governor  acted  vindictively   and  failed  to  consider                                                              
broader  interests. She  referenced  the education  bill that  had                                                              
over 90  percent support from legislators  in the State  House and                                                              
Senate, but was  compromised due to the governor's  line-item veto                                                              
power.  Some of  that support  might have  fizzled as  legislators                                                              
rallied around  the governor, contrary  to the hours  of testimony                                                              
and  thousands  of  letters  from people  in  favor  of  increased                                                              
education  funding  She stressed  the  importance  of achieving  a                                                              
two-thirds majority,  indicating either  strong support or  a fair                                                              
compromise.  She  said  the  state  cannot  let  a  governor  veto                                                              
something because it  does not align with all  of their interests.                                                              
Senator Claman  and his  staff provided  a thoughtful  analysis of                                                              
why this  resolution is  needed and  the history  that led  to the                                                              
uniquely  high requirement  for a three-fourths  vote to  override                                                              
revenue measures,  which is out  of sync with the  requirement for                                                              
a  two-thirds  vote  to  override  non-revenue  measures.  SJR  15                                                              
emphasizes  an important  issue  for all  Alaskans  and with  your                                                              
approval will come before voters for approval.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:43:33 PM                                                                                                                    
KALEB CALLAHAN,  representing self,  Juneau, Alaska,  testified in                                                              
support  of SJR  15. He  stated  he is  an intern  for the  Alaska                                                              
State  Legislature. He  expressed  concern  over the  considerable                                                              
power  held  by  the  governor   in  Alaska,  surpassing  that  of                                                              
governors  in  other states.  The  legislative  body is  a  better                                                              
representation  of  the  people   and  the  democratic  values  as                                                              
opposed  to  a single  executive.  While  acknowledging  that  the                                                              
governor  is  elected  by  the  people,  he  said  the  governor's                                                              
election  is  based  on the  values  presented  during  campaigns,                                                              
potentially allowing  them to exploit their centralized  power. He                                                              
warned of  the potential damage  a corrupt governor  could inflict                                                              
by  vetoing the  democratic  process  within the  legislature.  He                                                              
expressed  his  belief  that power  should  be  distributed  among                                                              
many.  The  adjusted  veto  override  proposed  by SJR  15  is  an                                                              
appropriate   check  on   legislative   power.   He  thanked   the                                                              
legislators  for their  support  of education  but questioned  the                                                              
hesitation  in adjusting  the  Base  Student Allocation  (BSA)  to                                                              
account  for inflation.  Investing  in education  is investing  in                                                              
the future, as today's students will eventually lead the nation.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:45:18 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR KAWASAKI asked  what school he is attending and  where he is                                                              
from.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:45:30 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. CALAHAN replied  that he is a lifelong resident  of Kodiak. He                                                              
said  he is  currently  taking  classes  at University  of  Alaska                                                              
Fairbanks and will soon graduate.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
3:45:51 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  KAWASAKI inquired  about  his experience  as a  legislative                                                              
intern and whether he enjoys working with his boss.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:46:07 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.  CALAHAN replied  that  the internship  has  been a  fantastic                                                              
opportunity  for young  students  like himself  who  are eager  to                                                              
engage in  the political process  within the legislative  body. It                                                              
has  been  an  excellent  opportunity   to  engage  in  the  small                                                              
locality  of Alaskan  politics.  He  expressed gratitude  for  the                                                              
opportunity  to   work  closely  with  Senator   Wielechowski  and                                                              
described him as  a fantastic boss who allocates  time for one-on-                                                              
one conversations.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:47:02 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR KAWASAKI closed public testimony SJR 15.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:47:15 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR MERRICK inquired  about the marketing strategy  for SJR 15                                                              
to ensure the public understands the distinction between a two-                                                                 
thirds   and  a   three-quarter   vote,  recognizing   that   some                                                              
individuals may not readily understand or relate to this nuance.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:47:48 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR CLAMAN  replied that  it is an  important question  as SJR
15  would significantly  change  the structure  of government.  He                                                              
outlined  a  two-step  process   that  involves  reaching  out  to                                                              
individuals  supportive of SJR  15, recognizing  that some  may be                                                              
in  favor  while  others  may  oppose   it.  Therefore,  community                                                              
outreach  is  important  to  inform   people  about  the  proposed                                                              
changes.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:48:40 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR KAWASAKI held SJR 15 in committee.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:49:39 PM                                                                                                                    
There  being no  further business  to come  before the  committee,                                                              
Chair  Kawasaki  adjourned  the   Senate  State  Affairs  Standing                                                              
Committee meeting at 3:49 p.m.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
SJR 15 Sectional Analysis version A 2.21.2024.pdf SFIN 4/9/2024 9:00:00 AM
SSTA 2/29/2024 3:30:00 PM
SJR 15
SJR 15 version A.pdf SSTA 2/29/2024 3:30:00 PM
SJR 15
SJR 15.Fiscal Note.Gov.pdf SSTA 2/29/2024 3:30:00 PM
SJR 15
SJR 15 Sponsor Statement version A 2.21.2024.pdf SFIN 4/9/2024 9:00:00 AM
SSTA 2/29/2024 3:30:00 PM
SJR 15
SJR 15 Support Letters.pdf SSTA 2/29/2024 3:30:00 PM
SJR 15