04/12/2007 09:00 AM Senate STATE AFFAIRS
| Audio | Topic | 
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB171|| SB135 | |
| SB40 | |
| Adjourn | 
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | HB 171 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | SB 135 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | SB 40 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | 
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
            SENATE STATE AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                           
                         April 12, 2007                                                                                         
                           9:03 a.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Lesil McGuire, Chair                                                                                                    
Senator Gary Stevens, Vice Chair                                                                                                
Senator Hollis French                                                                                                           
Senator Lyda Green                                                                                                              
Senator Con Bunde                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 171(STA) am                                                                                               
"An  Act relating  to the  date  and time  for convening  regular                                                               
legislative sessions, certain procedures  of the legislature, the                                                               
date for  organizing the Legislative Budget  and Audit Committee,                                                               
and  deadlines for  certain matters  or  reports to  be filed  or                                                               
delivered  to   the  legislature  or  a   legislative  committee;                                                               
prohibiting bonuses for legislative  employees; and providing for                                                               
an effective date."                                                                                                             
     HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 135                                                                                                             
"An Act relating  to the terms of legislators, the  date and time                                                               
for  convening regular  legislative sessions,  certain procedures                                                               
of  the  legislature, the  date  for  organizing the  Legislative                                                               
Budget and Audit Committee, and  deadlines for certain matters or                                                               
reports  to  be  filed  or  delivered to  the  legislature  or  a                                                               
legislative  committee;   prohibiting  bonuses   for  legislative                                                               
employees; and providing for an effective date."                                                                                
     HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 40                                                                                                              
"An  Act  relating to  reapplications  for  the Alaska  longevity                                                               
bonus program; and providing for an effective date."                                                                            
     HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 171                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: ACCOMMODATE 90-DAY SESSION                                                                                         
SPONSOR(S): RULES                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
03/01/07       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
03/01/07       (H)       STA                                                                                                    
03/06/07       (H)       STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 106                                                                             
03/06/07       (H)       Scheduled But Not Heard                                                                                
03/15/07       (H)       STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 106                                                                             
03/15/07       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/15/07       (H)       MINUTE(STA)                                                                                            
03/22/07       (H)       STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 106                                                                             
03/22/07       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/22/07       (H)       MINUTE(STA)                                                                                            
03/24/07       (H)       STA AT 10:00 AM CAPITOL 106                                                                            
03/24/07       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/24/07       (H)       MINUTE(STA)                                                                                            
03/29/07       (H)       STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 106                                                                             
03/29/07       (H)       Moved CSHB 171(STA) Out of Committee                                                                   
03/29/07       (H)       MINUTE(STA)                                                                                            
03/30/07       (H)       STA RPT CS(STA) NT 1DP 3NR 2AM                                                                         
03/30/07       (H)       DP: COGHILL                                                                                            
03/30/07       (H)       NR: JOHNSON, ROSES, LYNN                                                                               
03/30/07       (H)       AM: GRUENBERG, DOLL                                                                                    
04/03/07       (H)       BEFORE THE HOUSE                                                                                       
04/03/07       (H)       TRANSMITTED TO (S)                                                                                     
04/03/07       (H)       VERSION: CSHB 171(STA) AM                                                                              
04/04/07       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
04/04/07       (S)       STA                                                                                                    
04/12/07       (S)       STA AT 9:00 AM BELTZ 211                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SB 135                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: ACCOMMODATE 90-DAY SESSION                                                                                         
SPONSOR(S): STATE AFFAIRS                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
03/23/07       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
03/23/07       (S)       STA, FIN                                                                                               
03/29/07       (S)       STA AT 9:00 AM BELTZ 211                                                                               
03/29/07       (S)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/29/07       (S)       MINUTE(STA)                                                                                            
04/12/07       (S)       STA AT 9:00 AM BELTZ 211                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SB  40                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: LONGEVITY BONUS REAPPLICATIONS                                                                                     
SPONSOR(S): SENATOR(S) WIELECHOWSKI                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
01/16/07       (S)       PREFILE RELEASED 1/5/07                                                                                
01/16/07       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
01/16/07       (S)       HES, STA, FIN                                                                                          
02/07/07       (S)       HES AT 1:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
02/07/07       (S)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
02/07/07       (S)       MINUTE(HES)                                                                                            
02/28/07       (S)       HES AT 1:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
02/28/07       (S)       Moved CSSB  40(HES) Out of Committee                                                                   
02/28/07       (S)       MINUTE(HES)                                                                                            
03/02/07       (S)       HES RPT CS  3DP 1NR    SAME TITLE                                                                      
03/02/07       (S)       DP: DAVIS, THOMAS, COWDERY                                                                             
03/02/07       (S)       NR: DYSON                                                                                              
04/12/07       (S)       STA AT 9:00 AM BELTZ 211                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
RYNNIEVA MOSS, Staff                                                                                                            
to Representative John Coghill                                                                                                  
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions regarding HB 171.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
TAMARA COOK, Director                                                                                                           
Legislative Legal and Research Services                                                                                         
Legislative Affairs Agency (LAA)                                                                                                
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions about a 90-day session.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BILL WIELECHOWSKI                                                                                                       
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented SB 40 as sponsor.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
ELLIE FITZJARRALD, Acting Director                                                                                              
Division of Public Assistance                                                                                                   
Department of Health and Social Services                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions regarding SB 40.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
RALPH HUNT                                                                                                                      
Pioneers of Alaska                                                                                                              
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in favor of SB 40.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
RITA HATCH, Volunteer                                                                                                           
Older Persons Action Group                                                                                                      
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in favor of SB 40.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
PAT LUBY, Advocacy Director                                                                                                     
AARP Alaska                                                                                                                     
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in favor of SB 40.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  LESIL MCGUIRE  called the  Senate  State Affairs  Standing                                                             
Committee  meeting  to order  at  9:03:56  AM. Senators  McGuire,                                                             
Stevens,  Bunde, and  Green were  present at  the call  to order.                                                               
Senator French joined the meeting soon thereafter.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
               HB 171-ACCOMMODATE 90-DAY SESSION                                                                            
               SB 135-ACCOMMODATE 90-DAY SESSION                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE announced  the consideration of HB 171  and SB 135;                                                               
HB 171 was the working document.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:05:07 AM                                                                                                                    
RYNNIEVA  MOSS, Staff  to Representative  John  Coghill, said  an                                                               
House  amendment has  the first  legislative session  starting in                                                               
January and  the second one in  February in order to  address the                                                               
lame duck issue.  On the floor an amendment was  offered to allow                                                               
telephonic voting, but it failed.  Only five people voted for it,                                                               
she noted. Everything else in the bill remained the same.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  BUNDE   asked  about   the  attempt   by  Representative                                                               
Gruenberg to add sunset language.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MOSS said  the  House decided  to  have Legislative  Council                                                               
review the  90-day session  and come  up with  recommendations by                                                               
2010 instead of  sunsetting the bill. This  would address uniform                                                               
rule recommendations to comply with  either the 90-day session or                                                               
to go back to the 120-day session, she said.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
9:07:29 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR MCGUIRE said she has  a conforming amendment to replace the                                                               
second Monday  in January to  February instead. There has  been a                                                               
pattern in practice that is not in conformity with statutes.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
TAMARA COOK,  Director, Legislative Legal and  Research Services,                                                               
Legislative Affairs  Agency (LAA)  said the reason  for it  was a                                                               
concern  with the  constitutional  provision that  says that  the                                                               
term for  a representative  is two  years and  a senator  is four                                                               
years.  In existing  law,  there is  a  gap during  gubernatorial                                                               
election years.  Some newly-elected legislators will  take office                                                               
a week later than on  other years, so unelected legislators would                                                               
holdover for  that time.  That occurs under  existing law.  It is                                                               
intensified if the  session starts on a  later date--in February,                                                               
and that would create a much  larger gap for the transition year.                                                               
The  statutes don't  speak to  holdovers  or any  terms that  are                                                               
different, she explained.  So she got the  request to statutorily                                                               
adjust the  terms based on  the starting date. The  House deleted                                                               
the  notion of  beginning  the  term in  February  for a  regular                                                               
session.  Instead, the  terms of  office remain  the same  in the                                                               
House version now. For the  first regular session, the term would                                                               
begin in January, as they do  now, with a delay for gubernatorial                                                               
years. The draft  amendment in front of the  committee only would                                                               
work with  existing law.  There is  a technical  problem. Because                                                               
the House  version no longer changed  the term of office  and the                                                               
start date of a  session, that item is no longer  in the title of                                                               
the House bill.  If the amendment were adopted it  will require a                                                               
change to the House-passed version which will be difficult.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:13:25 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR MCGUIRE asked about any other clean-up concerns.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. COOK  said she doesn't see  anything. If the Senate  or House                                                               
version passes,  the uniform rules  will be in conflict,  but she                                                               
assumes that  will be  corrected. That  is not  constitutional in                                                               
nature. It needs a 2/3 vote of each house to amend the title.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE said, "Then we  may want to consider…whether or not                                                               
the senate  vehicle would in fact  be amended and sent  back over                                                               
to the other body…with the title change presented."                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS. MOSS asked if there is a concurrent resolution.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE said not yet. If  the amendment is adopted, a title                                                               
amendment and a concurring resolution will be needed.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BUNDE  said either way there  is a requirement for  a 2/3                                                               
vote.   This   initiative-generated   law  doesn't   change   the                                                               
constitutional requirement  for a 120-day session.  He asked what                                                               
happens if the legislature needs to go beyond 90 days.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:16:48 AM                                                                                                                    
MS.  COOK said  the  courts  have not  considered  the matter  so                                                               
whatever the  legislature does will be  uncomfortable and fraught                                                               
with   some   legal   uncertainty.   Her  hunch   is   that   the                                                               
constitutional  120-day session  trumps  the statute  as a  legal                                                               
matter. If the  legislature gets to day-90 and  continues to pass                                                               
legislation, someone could  ask the court to  order a restraining                                                               
order  to adjourn.  "I  do  not believe  the  court system  would                                                               
interfere with a matter of  legislative procedure in that fashion                                                               
at  all." The  other  legal  attempt would  be  to challenge  the                                                               
validity of any legislation passed after the 90 days.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
9:18:35 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  BUNDE  said at  midnight  of  the  90th day,  would  the                                                               
presiding officer announce a special session?                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS.  COOK said  the legislature  will  have two  choices. It  can                                                               
adjourn from the regular session, and  if it is during the second                                                               
session the bills will die.  Secondly, the legislature can simply                                                               
go on with  its business until day-120, and then  it can consider                                                               
an  extension.   The  legislature  will  be   faced  with  either                                                               
terminating a  regular session  and then taking  the steps  to go                                                               
into a special session, which is not  easy to do, or wait for the                                                               
governor  to  call  it  into  a special  session  and  live  with                                                               
whatever the limited  agenda is that the governor  imposes. Or it                                                               
can remain  in session, relying on  its constitutional authority.                                                               
If it does, the bills will be  deemed to be valid. She based that                                                               
opinion  on the  fact that  the  court has  told the  state in  a                                                               
couple of  cases that it is  not going to interfere  with matters                                                               
of legislative procedure.  It seems that a  determination of when                                                               
the  legislature is  going  to adjourn  from  a regular  session,                                                               
which it has  a constitutional right to remain in,  is very, very                                                               
central  to a  question of  legislative procedure.  Consequently,                                                               
her best  guess is even  if the  legislature acts outside  of the                                                               
statutory  90-day   session,  a   court  will   find  it   to  be                                                               
nonjudiciable based on separation of powers.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
9:20:55 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR STEVENS  said the public  wants a 90-day session,  and he                                                               
wants to  know where  the bill  says that.  There is  language on                                                               
staff  bonuses, "but  precious little  about how  we're going  to                                                               
take 30 days out of the session."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS. COOK said the initiative  enacted a statutory 90-day session.                                                               
It is not yet published in statute,  but it is a subsection of an                                                               
existing provision.  But it is the  law and it is  not amended in                                                               
either version of the bill.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:22:19 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR STEVENS said  it is frustrating that nothing  in the bill                                                               
helps  the legislature  cut  a quarter  of its  days  out of  the                                                               
session. He asked if that will be done with the uniform rules.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS.  COOK said  not necessarily,  but that  is probably  the most                                                               
appropriate place  address those  issues. There are  statutes now                                                               
that  address  legislative  procedure.   The  bill  only  changes                                                               
statute  and  cannot  amend  the  uniform  rules.  She  said  she                                                               
presumes  that  if someone  wanted,  for  example, to  limit  the                                                               
number of  bills that may be  introduced, it could be  set out in                                                               
statute as well as in uniform rules.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEVENS  said they  probably should  be. There  should be                                                               
statutory solutions for limiting bills somewhere.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
9:24:17 AM                                                                                                                    
MS. COOK said  that is a policy call if  the legislature wants to                                                               
place restrictions  on the total  volume of work that  flows into                                                               
the body. There is any number of  ways to do that. Neither of the                                                               
two bills goes to that level of creativity, she stated.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEVENS asked why.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. MOSS said there are  reports required from the administration                                                               
to  give the  body knowledge  in  order to  conduct business.  If                                                               
changing the  session to 90-days,  those reports need to  come in                                                               
earlier. That is all the bill does.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
9:25:26 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR STEVENS asked when those specifics will occur.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. MOSS said she distributed a chart with timelines.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEVENS said he is referring to the other issues.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. MOSS  said the discussion  has occurred, and there  are memos                                                               
discussing  the uniform  rules that  need  to be  changed. It  is                                                               
policy that  is up to the  legislature. That is a  decision to be                                                               
made in the committee process, she added.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH  asked if the bill  changes the start date  of the                                                               
legislature.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. MOSS  said it changes  the date  for the second  session. The                                                               
first session starts in January to address the lame duck issue.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
9:27:03 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  FRENCH said  he will  offer an  amendment to  make it  a                                                               
uniform start date.  He said there is a potential  clash with the                                                               
AGIA 60-day  review period  and next  year's regular  session. "I                                                               
have great concern that those two  are going to intersect, and we                                                               
will  be  confronted with  a  60-day  review  period on  an  AGIA                                                               
licensee during  the time  we're supposed to  be doing  bills and                                                               
other measures." He asked for  a description of what happens when                                                               
there is a special session that overlaps with a regular session.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:28:36 AM                                                                                                                    
MS. COOK said  there is a difference of opinion  on whether it is                                                               
constitutional to hold a special  session while a regular session                                                               
is  still going  on. The  AG's  office opined  that the  governor                                                               
could call a special session  while the legislature is in regular                                                               
session to  force the  topic of the  special session.  She thinks                                                               
the governor  lacks that authority.  There is no  suggestion that                                                               
the legislature has that authority  to call itself into a special                                                               
session during a regular session  either. Whether operating under                                                               
the  constitutional 121-day  limit or  a 90-day  limit, they  are                                                               
under consecutive calendar days. A  special session would cut out                                                               
regular  session days.  If  the  governor can  do  that, she  can                                                               
impose her  agenda and  the legislature  could be  manipulated to                                                               
focus on a  topic and carve a chunk of  the regular session. Even                                                               
under 120 days, the legislature  has difficulty fulfilling all of                                                               
the  jobs  it wishes  to  undertake.  "I  don't think  a  special                                                               
session actually can occur during  a regular session…but there is                                                               
no court case  that tells us that that is  true." The legislature                                                               
should adjourn from  regular session before going  into a special                                                               
session. If the  legislature decides to take up  a special topic,                                                               
it can do  it during the regular session-it doesn't  have to call                                                               
a  special  session  unless  the point  of  calling  the  special                                                               
session is to prevent the consideration of other matters.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:31:52 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR FRENCH  said if the  legislature were confronted  with an                                                               
AGIA licensee, it could put its  other work aside and consider it                                                               
as soon a practical. It is  important to not to require a special                                                               
session to do that in.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE  said she  thinks the session  should start  on the                                                               
same date every year, and it  may be a bone of contention between                                                               
the two bodies. Citizens at her  town meeting told her they voted                                                               
for the  90-day session because  it is a citizen  legislature and                                                               
members are supposed  to be working and it would  be confusing to                                                               
plan  lives around  staggered  years. If  the  session starts  in                                                               
January, it's  not an issue, but  with a February start  date the                                                               
[AGIA  review] is  more interesting.  She said  she doesn't  know                                                               
when the  licensee will come  in. With  a staggered year  or with                                                               
session  starting  in  February,  "if  a  licensee  came  up  for                                                               
approval in January,  I suspect then that is when  we would elect                                                               
to call  ourselves into  special session  because we  wouldn't be                                                               
here and we  wouldn't be able to  act in that 30-  or 60-day time                                                               
period that is currently…. The Senate version required 60 days."                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:34:22 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  GREEN said  even is  there  was a  presentation of  AGIA                                                               
before  the regular  session, there  could be  hearings, just  no                                                               
action. Decisions can be made and then gavel in and vote.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE  said the  showdown will  be between  those members                                                               
who don't  work outside  the legislature and  those that  do. The                                                               
short  session is  asking members  to have  an outside  job. "The                                                               
public has  said this is not  a career. You have  three months to                                                               
get  your  work  done."  The problem  is  holding  meetings  that                                                               
require work  into the night and  trying to work a  job. It could                                                               
be subverting that intent of the initiative.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  GREEN  said that  happens  now.  Very often  they'll  be                                                               
downtown  in  Anchorage  and listening  to  hearings  and  having                                                               
different meetings that go way past the 120 days, she noted.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
9:36:39 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  MCGUIRE said  she doesn't  disagree. It  is the  potential                                                               
communication fallout. She said  some people think members should                                                               
be in  Juneau all  year. She  has never  encountered constituents                                                               
who tell  her they  will wait  and call her  when the  session is                                                               
over. They call  at any time to address their  problems. "I don't                                                               
know where that communication breakdown  has occurred, but it has                                                               
certainly been  my experience that  this is a full-time  job." If                                                               
legislators aren't  working full  time, people think  they're not                                                               
doing their job. "It puts us in a real conundrum."                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BUNDE  said, "Those  of us in  our declining  years still                                                               
like to have a  life." One of the ironies of  the process and the                                                               
suspicion people  have of  their government is  that they  want a                                                               
part-time legislator unless they have  a problem they want fixed.                                                               
He  noted potential  legislation requiring  a 30-day  notice when                                                               
calling a special session. "This  is more about public impression                                                               
than it  is about any  practical reality."  He is tempted  to say                                                               
the  legislature  will  carry  out  smoke  and  mirrors,  and  he                                                               
suspects than in a few years the session will go past 90 days.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
9:39:46 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR MCGUIRE said she has  spent time talking with colleagues in                                                               
other states. When there is less  than 90 days, the trend is more                                                               
special  sessions  and  the methods  of  accomplishing  the  work                                                               
become more creative. She said she  wished there was time to hold                                                               
a  series of  public hearings  to hear  the intent  of those  who                                                               
supported the  initiative. At a  recent town meeting, a  man said                                                               
he wanted elected  officials to have equal power  and access with                                                               
the other  branches of government.  He wanted the  legislature to                                                               
have power to act on his behalf, she said.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BUNDE  said he shared  some of his  constituent responses                                                               
with  the committee.  A number  of them  had buyer's  remorse, he                                                               
stated. But  now that the public  has spoken, they don't  want an                                                               
end  run around  the 90-day  session.  He hopes  the body  limits                                                               
itself and  tells people no.  Then in  five or six  years, people                                                               
may change  their minds. It is  important to let the  public know                                                               
there are consequences, he said.  One consequence may be that the                                                               
public has less access to members when they are in session.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:42:59 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR MCGUIRE  said she was in  law school in Oregon,  which made                                                               
active use of  the referendum process. Her class decided  to do a                                                               
nation-wide   symposium  on   that  process.   The  conversations                                                               
followed along  the lines  of "be  careful what  you ask  for." A                                                               
representative government  has its reason, including  the hearing                                                               
process  and multiple  referrals so  that  there is  time to  vet                                                               
out…. She said all members have  offered bills that seemed like a                                                               
good idea. The  initiative process is a quick  synopsis, and some                                                               
people  don't  even read  it.  Oregon  members believe  that  the                                                               
initiative  process has  resulted in  a constitutional  patchwork                                                               
with  contradictions.  More  and  more, Alaskans  are  using  the                                                               
initiative process to enact the will of some.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
9:46:10 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR GREEN  noticed the staggered  start dates on line  17 and                                                               
asked, "Why aren't we beginning on one day?"                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE  said she and  Senator French agree, and  she asked                                                               
Ms. Cook for an amendment that would have one start date.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  STEVENS  said  he  agrees, but  he  would  like  another                                                               
explanation of the lame duck issue.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS. MOSS  said it  already occurs  on gubernatorial  years, which                                                               
start a week  later. The constitution says that a  term is either                                                               
two or four  years, so terms expire prior to  the swearing in. If                                                               
legislators  are "sworn  in on  January 12,  and session  doesn't                                                               
start  until   February  8,  you   have  almost  a   month  where                                                               
theoretically you  have no house  members and you only  have half                                                               
the senate that still have their terms active."                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
9:49:06 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR GREEN said amendment K.a1 would take care of it.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE said  that was the point. There  was testimony that                                                               
even  though  there   is  this  gap  in   the  constitution,  the                                                               
legislature itself,  through the  LAA, conducts  itself as  if it                                                               
doesn't exist. She asked if the amendment clears that up.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. COOK said  nothing in statute clears up  the constitution. It                                                               
is her opinion  that the constitution says when  the term begins,                                                               
but  there is  the opportunity  for the  legislature, by  law, to                                                               
change the  date of convening. "We  have set, by law,  a date for                                                               
convening, and it  doesn't happen to be the very  same date every                                                               
year right now."  There is also the provision that  a term is two                                                               
or  four years,  so  it  seems that  a  court  confronted with  a                                                               
special  session when  there are  no  legislators in  office…will                                                               
reach  the same  point  that  the LAA  has  reached  and imply  a                                                               
holdover period. Her hunch is that  no court will find that there                                                               
are no  representatives and only  half the senate. The  lame duck                                                               
concern  is the  gap  between  the election  and  swearing in  of                                                               
members. "To  the extent  that we hold  our session  further away                                                               
from the general  election, we have a longer  period during which                                                               
the individuals  in office will  not represent,  necessarily, the                                                               
individuals who  have been  most recently  elected." That  may be                                                               
one source of unease, she stated.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
9:52:49 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR MCGUIRE said starting in January eliminates it.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. COOK  said that would be  the same as current  situation. The                                                               
other  concern  is getting  information  from  the Department  of                                                               
Revenue to use  to craft budgets. The session would  end too soon                                                               
to  get the  benefit of  the  best revenue  estimates. The  House                                                               
decided not to change the starting  date, but every two years get                                                               
the better estimate. It was  an interesting and creative solution                                                               
on their  part, she  stated. She has  never heard  discussions of                                                               
starting  a week  later in  January. It  might be  worth checking                                                               
with the Department  of Revenue, she said, to see  if a few weeks                                                               
makes a difference to it.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:55:25 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  BUNDE  said  the  consistent  thing  about  the  revenue                                                               
forecast is it is always wrong.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MOSS  asked  Ms.  Cook  if  the  amendment  passed  and  the                                                               
legislature met on the second  Monday of February, would the term                                                               
of newly-elected members begin in January for a special session?                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. COOK surmised that if a  special session is called before the                                                               
members are sworn in, it would be the old legislators.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:56:54 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR BUNDE said that happened last year.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE said  the fourth special session  had 12 [outgoing]                                                               
people. The sky didn't fall, but she recognizes the concern.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
HB 171 and SB 135 were held in committee.                                                                                       
The committee took an at-ease at 9:57:30 AM.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
             SB  40-LONGEVITY BONUS REAPPLICATIONS                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
10:01:47 AM                                                                                                                   
CHAIR MCGUIRE announced the consideration of SB 40.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BILL  WIELECHOWSKI, Alaska State Legislature,  sponsor of                                                               
SB 40, said the longevity  bonus program still exists in statute;                                                               
however  it  has  not  been  funded since  2003.  SB  40  doesn't                                                               
reinstate the  bonus but it  corrects the application  process to                                                               
allow  those seniors  who were  receiving  the bonus  in 2003  to                                                               
reapply if the  program ever gets funded. The  program would fade                                                               
out  as  seniors  pass  away.  The current  CS  is  the  work  of                                                               
Legislative  Legal  Services,  the  Department of  Law,  and  the                                                               
Department  of Health  and  Social  Services. The  administration                                                               
supports the longevity  bonus, he noted. The  program was enacted                                                               
in  1972 for  Alaska pioneers  65  and older.  In 1993,  Governor                                                               
Hickel proposed  the phased  reduction and  eventual elimination.                                                               
Seniors  who were  receiving  the bonus  were  assured that  they                                                               
would be allowed to continue  benefiting from the program as long                                                               
as they  were living in  Alaska. Many  have counted on  the bonus                                                               
for their retirement.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
10:04:08 AM                                                                                                                   
CHAIR MCGUIRE  said she firmly  believes a good  culture supports                                                               
its seniors.  In Asia  it is  a sign of  disrespect to  leave the                                                               
elderly  without a  home. She  asked about  the equal  protection                                                               
constitutional problems in recreating  a program that only allows                                                               
some  seniors to  get it.  She then  asked how  the program  will                                                               
merge with the senior care program.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI  said  there are  potential  constitutional                                                               
issues. There  was a  challenge to the  longevity bonus  in 1996,                                                               
and the Superior Court upheld  the program. It provides merely an                                                               
economic interest. Since  the money has been phased  out there is                                                               
potential for  the court to  strike it down  now. SB 4  would not                                                               
allow people who are receiving  senior care to receive the bonus.                                                               
He doesn't know if that exclusion exists today.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
10:07:44 AM                                                                                                                   
TAMARA COOK,  Director, Legislative Legal and  Research Services,                                                               
said  the  court  found that  the  stair-stepping  phase-out  was                                                               
constitutional even  though it grandfathered in  some recipients,                                                               
because  on the  reliance the  recipients had  on the  bonus. The                                                               
reliance  principle is  fairly well  developed in  case law.  The                                                               
difference now is the four-year  gap where the reliance issue has                                                               
not been protected,  so that weakens the argument  that the state                                                               
is protecting  a relying  interest. A  remnant interest  could be                                                               
argued, but it won't be resolved until it is attempted.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE  said the remnant  reliance issue would have  to be                                                               
argued;  otherwise it  is denying  some  seniors a  bonus with  a                                                               
seemingly arbitrary date.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. COOK  said the longevity  bonus does not  classify recipients                                                               
based on length of residency.  It is not a discrimination against                                                               
newcomers.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE asked about senior care.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS.  COOK  said  if  the  current senior  care  program  and  the                                                               
longevity  bonus   were  on  the   books  and   superimposed,  an                                                               
individual could  get both, but  the value  of the bonus  will go                                                               
into  the eligibility  calculation for  the senior  care program.                                                               
Some very  poor elders  could qualify for  both. The  senior care                                                               
program didn't exist when the longevity bonus was enacted.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
10:13:43 AM                                                                                                                   
ELLIE   FITZJARRALD,   Acting   Director,  Division   of   Public                                                               
Assistance,  Department  of  Health  and  Social  Services,  said                                                               
currently the  senior care program  has not  considered longevity                                                               
bonus income because it  has not been there. In SB  4 there is no                                                               
specific  provision  about  whether  the  bonus  would  count  in                                                               
determining  eligibility. The  fiscal notes  assume that  seniors                                                               
must choose to either receive  the longevity bonus or participate                                                               
in the senior  care program, but not both. It  is not spelled out                                                               
in the bill, so that decision needs to be made, she concluded.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  MCGUIRE  asked  if  the  permanent  fund  dividend  counts                                                               
towards income for qualifying for the senior care program.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
10:15:06 AM                                                                                                                   
MS. FITZJARRALD said it doesn't count.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BUNDE pointed  out that "for those that  are aghast about                                                               
spending  any of  the earnings  of the  permanent fund,  we spend                                                               
about $30  million a  year on  the hold  harmless for  people who                                                               
would lose their welfare if  they received a dividend." He agreed                                                               
with the need  to provide respect for elders;  however, he doubts                                                               
that not giving  the Hickels, Murkowskis, or  himself a longevity                                                               
bonus  would  show a  lack  of  respect.  He  asked Ms.  Cook  if                                                               
reliance means needs-based.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
10:16:36 AM                                                                                                                   
MS. COOK  said reliance interest  is not defined  as needs-based.                                                               
It  is  the notion  of  the  government changing  something  that                                                               
someone  relied  on.  The  judge  in the  case  didn't  make  any                                                               
suggestion  that the  reliance being  protected was  needs-based,                                                               
only that a person might make  a financial decisions based on the                                                               
continuation of a program.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BUNDE said the sponsor  noted that Governor Hickel made a                                                               
promise, but  there was  no promise  from the  legislature. "When                                                               
the sponsor  statement said  'we made a  promise,' I  reject that                                                               
notion. I  was no party  to any  promise like that."  The sponsor                                                               
statement speaks  of Alaska settlers,  but most people  that were                                                               
receiving  the  bonus were  not  longtime  Alaskans. He  said  he                                                               
rejects the notion that it is a moral obligation.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
10:18:50 AM                                                                                                                   
SENATOR STEVENS noted that he also  hears from people that it was                                                               
a promise  given. When he was  on the borough assembly,  a person                                                               
could not  encumber future assemblies  by decisions.  "What legal                                                               
grounds are  we on when  someone says that  it was a  promise and                                                               
you have an obligation to fulfill it?"                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. COOK  said every obligation on  the books is dependent  on an                                                               
appropriation. Even private contracts,  implied or explicit, rely                                                               
on the  continuation of appropriated money.  Whenever any citizen                                                               
does business  with the  state, there  is always  the possibility                                                               
that a program  will not continue, especially  a benefit program.                                                               
It is a well-understood legal  principle, but it may have nothing                                                               
to do with how the common person views it.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
10:20:47 AM                                                                                                                   
SENATOR FRENCH  said beneficiaries  are dying.  How old  will the                                                               
youngest be if the program is continued?                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BUNDE said the cost will be over $150 million.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. FITZJARRALD said she believes it is age 75.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BUNDE  pointed out the  senior property tax  exemption is                                                               
on the books, but the state has chosen not to fund it.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
10:21:57 AM                                                                                                                   
RALPH  HUNT, Pioneers  of Alaska,  Juneau,  said he  has been  in                                                               
Alaska for 57 years. He said  he is 90-years-old and supports the                                                               
program. There  are a lot  of seniors  that the money  meant they                                                               
could  do  things  they  couldn't do  otherwise.  "It  should  be                                                               
reinstated."  He  once  suggested to  former  Governor  Murkowski                                                               
another way to save money and was told it wasn't feasible.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BUNDE  said there was  a proposal  from the AARP  to make                                                               
the  bonus  a  needs-based  program.  That  seemed  like  a  good                                                               
compromise.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. HUNT  said he  would support  that. It is  nice to  have, but                                                               
there are  quite a  few people  who do need  it. There  have been                                                               
people who left the state because it was gone.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
10:24:34 AM                                                                                                                   
RITA  HATCH,  Volunteer, Older  Persons  Action  Group, said  she                                                               
volunteers  with seniors  everyday, many  of whom  have lost  the                                                               
bonus and want it back. Many  have hardly a decent living without                                                               
it.  If funded,  "SB 40  will be  a technical  fix that  will re-                                                               
qualify all of us so that we would be eligible again."                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
10:25:40 AM                                                                                                                   
PAT LUBY,  Director, AARP Alaska, said  SB 40 is a  technical fix                                                               
that  if  the  longevity  bonus should  be  restored,  previously                                                               
eligible seniors will again be eligible. This is a good idea.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  BUNDE said  he worked  with him  before senior  care was                                                               
available,  and Mr.  Luby said  AARP would  accept a  needs-based                                                               
benefit.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. LUBY  said an  AARP principle is  that government  will never                                                               
have enough  money to do what  needs to be done,  so money should                                                               
go  to  those  in  need.  We  definitely  support  a  needs-based                                                               
program, he stated.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
10:27:35 AM                                                                                                                   
CHAIR MCGUIRE closed public testimony on SB 40 and held the bill                                                                
in committee.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no further business to come before the committee,                                                                   
Chair McGuire adjourned the meeting at 10:28:04 AM.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
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