Legislature(2007 - 2008)BELTZ 211

03/29/2007 09:00 AM Senate STATE AFFAIRS


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09:04:02 AM Start
09:07:49 AM Confirmation Hearing, Apoc: Elizabeth Hickerson
09:15:21 AM SB100
09:44:19 AM SB101
09:47:13 AM SB135|| HB171
10:28:12 AM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ Confirmation Hearing: TELECONFERENCED
Elizabeth Johnston Hickerson - Anchorage
Alaska Public Offices Commission
*+ SB 135 ACCOMMODATE 90-DAY SESSION TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
= SB 100 SUBSTANCE ABUSE/MENTAL HEALTH PROGRAMS
Moved CSSB 100(STA) Out of Committee
= SB 101 GUARDIANSHIP AND CONSERVATORS
Moved CSSB 101(STA) Out of Committee
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
            SENATE STATE AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                           
                         March 29, 2007                                                                                         
                           9:04 a.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Lesil McGuire, Chair                                                                                                    
Senator Gary Stevens, Vice Chair                                                                                                
Senator Hollis French                                                                                                           
Senator Lyda Green                                                                                                              
Senator Con Bunde                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                              
CONFIRMATION HEARING: Alaska Public Offices Commission                                                                          
     Elizabeth Johnston Hickerson--Anchorage                                                                                    
     CONFIRMATION ADVANCED                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 100                                                                                                             
"An Act  relating to substance  abuse and mental  health disorder                                                               
prevention  and treatment  programs;  and  relating to  long-term                                                               
secure  treatment programs  for persons  with substance  abuse or                                                               
co-occurring substance abuse and mental health disorders."                                                                      
     MOVED CSSB 100(STA) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 101                                                                                                             
"An  Act  relating  to   private  professional  conservators  and                                                               
private and public guardians."                                                                                                  
     MOVED CSSB 101(STA) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 135                                                                                                             
"An Act relating  to the terms of legislators, the  date and time                                                               
for  convening regular  legislative sessions,  certain procedures                                                               
of  the  legislature, the  date  for  organizing the  Legislative                                                               
Budget and Audit Committee, and  deadlines for certain matters or                                                               
reports  to  be  filed  or  delivered to  the  legislature  or  a                                                               
legislative  committee;   prohibiting  bonuses   for  legislative                                                               
employees; and providing for an effective date."                                                                                
     HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SB 100                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: SUBSTANCE ABUSE/MENTAL HEALTH PROGRAMS                                                                             
SPONSOR(S): SENATOR(S) ELLIS                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
02/28/07       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
02/28/07       (S)       HES, STA, FIN                                                                                          
03/19/07       (S)       HES AT 1:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
03/19/07       (S)       Moved  SB 100 Out of Committee                                                                         
03/19/07       (S)       MINUTE(HES)                                                                                            
03/21/07       (S)       HES RPT  4DP 1NR                                                                                       
03/21/07       (S)       DP: DAVIS, ELTON, THOMAS, DYSON                                                                        
03/21/07       (S)       NR: COWDERY                                                                                            
03/27/07       (S)       STA AT 9:00 AM BELTZ 211                                                                               
03/27/07       (S)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/27/07       (S)       MINUTE(STA)                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SB 101                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: GUARDIANSHIP AND CONSERVATORS                                                                                      
SPONSOR(S): LABOR & COMMERCE                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
02/28/07       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
02/28/07       (S)       L&C, STA, FIN                                                                                          
03/08/07       (S)       L&C AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 211                                                                               
03/08/07       (S)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/08/07       (S)       MINUTE(L&C)                                                                                            
03/13/07       (S)       L&C AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 211                                                                               
03/13/07       (S)       Moved CSSB 101(L&C) Out of Committee                                                                   
03/13/07       (S)       MINUTE(L&C)                                                                                            
03/14/07       (S)       L&C RPT CS  3DP 1NR   SAME TITLE                                                                       
03/14/07       (S)       DP: ELLIS, BUNDE, DAVIS                                                                                
03/14/07       (S)       NR: STEVENS                                                                                            
03/27/07       (S)       STA AT 9:00 AM BELTZ 211                                                                               
03/27/07       (S)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/27/07       (S)       MINUTE(STA)                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SB 135                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: ACCOMMODATE 90-DAY SESSION                                                                                         
SPONSOR(S): STATE AFFAIRS                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
03/23/07       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
03/23/07       (S)       STA, FIN                                                                                               
03/29/07       (S)       STA AT 9:00 AM BELTZ 211                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
ELIZABETH JOHNSTON HICKERSON, Designee                                                                                          
Alaska Public Offices Commission                                                                                                
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: She presented herself as designee.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR JOHNNY ELLIS                                                                                                            
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented SB 100 as sponsor.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
BILL HOGAN, Deputy Commissioner                                                                                                 
Department of Health and Social Services (DHSS)                                                                                 
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in favor of SB 100.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
KATE HERRING, Staff                                                                                                             
to Senator Johnny Ellis                                                                                                         
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions regarding SB 100.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
JOSH FINK, Director                                                                                                             
Office of Public Advocacy                                                                                                       
Department of Administration                                                                                                    
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions regarding SB 101.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
RYNNIEVA MOSS, Staff                                                                                                            
to Representative Jack Coghill                                                                                                  
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions on SB 135 and HB 171.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
JOHN BOUCHER                                                                                                                    
Office of Management and Budget                                                                                                 
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions on SB 135 and HB 171.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
TAMARA COOK, Director                                                                                                           
Legislative Legal and Research Services                                                                                         
Legislative Affairs Agency                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions on SB 135 and HB 171.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR LESIL MCGUIRE called the Senate State Affairs Committee                                                                 
meeting to order at 9:04:02 AM. Senators Green, Stevens, French,                                                              
Bunde, and McGuire were present at the call to order.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
        ^Confirmation Hearing, APOC: Elizabeth Hickerson                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE announced the consideration  of the confirmation of                                                               
Elizabeth  Johnston Hickerson  for a  seat on  the Alaska  Public                                                               
Offices Commission (APOC).                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
ELIZABETH  JOHNSTON HICKERSON,  Designee,  Alaska Public  Offices                                                               
Commission, said she is interested  in the position because it is                                                               
important to make sure people  follow the rules, especially while                                                               
representing  constituents. It  is  somebody's responsibility  to                                                               
make the hard  calls, and she is  willing to do it.  She said she                                                               
is honest,  fair and  reasonable. The law  should be  followed by                                                               
all people regardless of their politics, she stated.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BUNDE  said once a person  runs for office, he  or she is                                                               
presumed  guilty.  The  public judges  legislators  unfairly  and                                                               
harshly, but since Ms. Hickerson has  a sense of humor, she might                                                               
apply the laws with common sense and a sense of humor.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:07:49 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  STEVENS asked  about her  membership in  the Alaska  Bar                                                               
Association and Alaska Rules of  Professional Conduct and if that                                                               
experience will assist her in this role.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. HICKERSON said  she served on the  disciplinary committee for                                                               
the  third  judicial  district  for  about  20  years,  reviewing                                                               
complaints  against  attorneys.  Sometimes  the  committee  gives                                                               
advice  to  bar   council  on  paper  and  other   times  it  has                                                               
administrative hearings  to cross examine witnesses  and to reach                                                               
a  decision.  That  experience  has  helped  her  understand  due                                                               
process,  she   said.  She  is   trained  as  an   attorney,  but                                                               
determining conduct is different from  a criminal trial. She said                                                               
she has  attempted to understand  people and their  behavior. Her                                                               
position has given  her experience sitting in  judgment. With the                                                               
Alaska Rules of  Professional Conduct she is  revising rules that                                                               
apply to  attorney behavior with  clients and the public.  It has                                                               
been an  ongoing process,  and she has  sat with  attorneys going                                                               
over rules  and how they  would be  applied. It has  her thinking                                                               
about ethical behavior and how it should be applied, she said.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
9:11:03 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR MCGUIRE  said people have  similar opinions  of politicians                                                               
and lawyers, but most are  good people. The legislature is trying                                                               
to  redefine its  rules to  align with  public expectations.  She                                                               
said APOC  has been very  helpful in guiding  legislators through                                                               
the  form requirements.  It is  important to  frame the  rules to                                                               
ensure the public trust and let  the members know how they can do                                                               
the job better.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. HICKERSON  said she hopes  APOC will continue to  be helpful.                                                               
Politicians are under  scrutiny, but that is  the public's right.                                                               
She said she  worked for the Senate and there  are very honorable                                                               
people serving  the public, and  it is unfortunate that  the good                                                               
work is overlooked by the indiscretion of others.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
9:13:16 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  MCGUIRE said  she appreciates  Mr.  Hickerson's desire  to                                                               
serve and she moved to recommend  that her name be forwarded to a                                                               
joint  session for  consideration for  the Alaska  Public Offices                                                               
Commission. Hearing no objection, it was so ordered.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 9:13:52 AM to 9:15 AM.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
         SB 100-SUBSTANCE ABUSE/MENTAL HEALTH PROGRAMS                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE announced the consideration of SB 100.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
9:15:21 AM                                                                                                                    
JOHNNY ELLIS, Alaska  State Legislature, Sponsor of  SB 100, said                                                               
Senator Bunde  had earlier asked  the daily cost for  patients in                                                               
the non-secure  "detox" facility,  and that is  yet to  come. The                                                               
number  of   calls  regarding  "high  flyers"   in  Anchorage  is                                                               
forthcoming as  well. The question  of whether a person  must hit                                                               
rock  bottom before  treatment can  be effective  is answered  in                                                               
studies that he  has provided to the committee. He  said the bill                                                               
goes to  finance committee  next, and  the main  rub will  be the                                                               
costs of the  pilot project. The bill will need  broad support in                                                               
the body, he surmised.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:17:14 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  STEVENS noted  that  he received  a  letter saying  that                                                               
Senator Ellis should be the first one committed.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELLIS  said that person  corresponds frequently  with the                                                               
legislature  and   has  feelings  about  conspiracies.   He  said                                                               
everyone   is   entitled   to  their   opinions.   There   is   a                                                               
misunderstanding;  the bill  will use  an  existing statute,  and                                                               
judges, not politicians,  will commit people. It is  for the most                                                               
extreme cases and he has taken time to educate people.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  MCGUIRE  said  she  has   had  constituents  in  favor  of                                                               
involuntary  commitment.   One  has  had   tremendous  difficulty                                                               
getting a family member committed, she stated.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELLIS said  it is often family members that  ask for help                                                               
getting someone  committed, and the  statute should  be stronger.                                                               
He said  the American Civil  Liberties Union would  likely oppose                                                               
the legislation  if the  bill changed the  balance of  power. "If                                                               
people  perceive that  someone is  out to  get them  or that  the                                                               
system is  totally corrupt and  people are after  them…I've heard                                                               
from  two individuals  that have  concerns that  this bill  might                                                               
pass and  someone might  try to  involuntarily commit  them. I've                                                               
gone  to  great  pains  to   explain  to  people  it  is  extreme                                                               
circumstances that we're talking about."                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:20:23 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR FRENCH noted a handout  with a cost and health comparison                                                               
of babies born to untreated  and treated substance-abusing women.                                                               
For  the  one-week treatment  for  substance  abuse, the  average                                                               
savings to  the system  was over $30,000  per birth  [because the                                                               
babies  were born  larger and  healthier  and their  stay in  the                                                               
hospital was  shortened]. Looking  at it  from a  purely economic                                                               
standpoint-without  even considering  the long-term  consequences                                                               
of being a small baby--the system is money ahead, he stated.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE  said the  part of  the bill  she likes  is putting                                                               
pregnant  women at  the top  of the  treatment list.  She thought                                                               
that was  already the  mandate and didn't  know the  state wasn't                                                               
following  it. It  is two  lives being  impacted. It  is not  100                                                               
percent, but the  hope is the mother can be  treated and the baby                                                               
benefits, she said.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELLIS  said federal grants require  priority for pregnant                                                               
women, but the state doesn't for  its grants. The bill would make                                                               
it clear  in state statute.  One discussion  got caught up  in an                                                               
abortion debate, he said, and "I hope we've transcended that."                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
9:23:16 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR MCGUIRE  said whether a  person is pro-life  or pro-choice,                                                               
it is in everybody's best interest.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  BUNDE  clarified  that giving  pregnant  women  priority                                                               
treatment doesn't mean they will be sent involuntarily.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELLIS said there is a committee substitute (CS).                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  GREEN moved  to adopt  the CS  for SB  100, labeled  25-                                                               
LS0151\N, as the working document.  Hearing no objection, Version                                                               
N was before the committee.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BILL HOGAN, Deputy Commissioner,  Department of Health and Social                                                               
Services  (DHSS),  said   he  was  once  with   the  Division  of                                                               
Behavioral  Health. The  change  made  by the  CS  is simple  and                                                               
mandates that DHSS coordinates  with existing community resources                                                               
to ensure  an adequate  number of  trained crisis  responders and                                                               
medical and legal support.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:25:45 AM                                                                                                                    
MR.  HOGAN said  there are  many aspects  of the  bill that  DHSS                                                               
feels strongly about, including identifying people with co-                                                                     
occurring  disorders.  Up  to  70  percent  of  people  receiving                                                               
services have  co-occurring disorders. The department  is working                                                               
on an  integrated behavioral health service  delivery system, and                                                               
SB 100  supports those  efforts. He  said he  likes the  focus on                                                               
evidence-based practice and the use  of research to determine the                                                               
most effective services. Some federal  block-grant money has been                                                               
used on  evidence-based practices lately, and  this will reaffirm                                                               
that focus.  He said  he likes focusing  on outcomes.  Just being                                                               
sober is not good enough; "we  really want folks to be productive                                                               
and  contributing  members of  society."  He  supports the  pilot                                                               
project for involuntary  commitment. He has worked with  a lot of                                                               
individuals forced into  treatment, and it is  not necessary that                                                               
they have  hit rock  bottom to  be successful.  Forcing treatment                                                               
really helps people achieve sobriety and maintain it, he stated.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:28:29 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR MCGUIRE said it will  particularly help people whose family                                                               
members and friends are involved due to their love for them.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  STEVENS  assumed the  fiscal  note  includes the  needed                                                               
personnel. But the CS speaks  to existing community resources. He                                                               
asked, "What are we buying for $2 million?"                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
KATE  HERRING, Staff  to Senator  Ellis, said  the first  version                                                               
discussed   the  pilot   program   coordinating  with   community                                                               
resources, and  the program  should fund its  own staff,  but the                                                               
department was concerned  that it would need  to extend community                                                               
service  patrols and  policing. "We  basically inserted  the word                                                               
'existing.'" The intent is to clarify no expansion.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
9:30:45 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR FRENCH said  the bill doesn't change  the legal standards                                                               
for involuntary commitment. The  difference is being committed to                                                               
a treatment program instead of a mental institution.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS.  HERRING  said  yes. She  understands  that  the  involuntary                                                               
commitment statute  was underutilized because there  was no where                                                               
to put people who were incapacitated by their addiction.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  ELLIS said  he has  been impressed  with the  Department                                                               
while working  on this legislation,  and they are willing  to try                                                               
something  new. The  legislature has  been frustrated  with money                                                               
put  into  treatment  programs  that sound  good,  but  it  takes                                                               
longitudinal  studies  and  statistical reporting  beyond  simply                                                               
intuition  or  hope  to  know   the  results.  So  evidence-based                                                               
programming  is the  way  the country  is  going, because  policy                                                               
makers are  sick and  tired of investing  in programs  that don't                                                               
work.  The legislature  was  shocked to  find  that the  D.A.R.E.                                                               
program is  not a good investment.  "We all stood there,  had our                                                               
photos taken with the kids and  the canine units and the police."                                                               
It seemed  to be  a good  program, but  studies showed  it didn't                                                               
work. He said we are not giving  up on young people but trying to                                                               
put  money in  things that  truly work.  He understands  that one                                                               
would want  a program to have  an 80 or 90  percent success rate.                                                               
Maybe 45  percent is the best  to expect, he said.  "But we don't                                                               
know unless  we require  that these programs  that we  invest our                                                               
public dollars in are evidence-based."  That way there will be no                                                               
flying in the dark on good intentions, he concluded.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE  said the big  decision will  be made on  the fifth                                                               
floor. She said she doesn't know how much money they have.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:34:15 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR ELLIS said  he is committed to work with  all senators to                                                               
get the  bill through. This is  a partnership, and he  is calling                                                               
everyone  to  the table  to  help  whittle down  the  legislative                                                               
fiscal  note.  The  status  quo  has gone  on  too  long  with  a                                                               
ridiculous waste of money, he said.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
9:35:33 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  BUNDE said  the bill  is sound,  but he  is disappointed                                                               
that the  Mental Health Trust won't  support it. It is  a general                                                               
fund  responsibility. Mandated  treatment  does not  work in  the                                                               
state, he said.  Looking at $2 million for only  20 people a year                                                               
is not a  gamble he is willing  to take. It might  speed the bill                                                               
up to  take out  the financial implication,  he stated.  He moved                                                               
Amendment 1 to remove Section 8, the pilot program.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  FRENCH objected  because  it guts  the  bill and  leaves                                                               
nothing but  a wish  list. The real  test of the  bill is  if the                                                               
state can  save money and  save lives by intensive  treatment for                                                               
people with  co-occurring disorders. Senator Bunde  doesn't think                                                               
the programs work,  but there is a study by  Johns Hopkins that a                                                               
period  as short  as  one week  can save  the  system $30,000  by                                                               
focusing on pregnant women. There is evidence that is does work.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:38:22 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  ELLIS   encouraged  the  committee  to   not  adopt  the                                                               
amendment. If the  bill moves, "we would have  the opportunity to                                                               
work  with all  the parties,  and discussions  are ongoing."  The                                                               
Mental Health Trust is supportive, and  he is telling them to put                                                               
money in. The bill will have  to satisfy the body and the finance                                                               
committee. There are  other sources of money as  well, he stated.                                                               
If the pilot  project is left in the bill,  the finance committee                                                               
is where people  can come to the table. If  that doesn't work, it                                                               
won't pass. Please give him the chance to work on it, he asked.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BUNDE  said the care  for pregnant women  doesn't involve                                                               
involuntary commitment,  so there  is value  in the  bill without                                                               
Section  8. Section  8 is  just a  gamble; there  is no  evidence                                                               
until $11 million is spent, he stated.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:40:06 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR MCGUIRE said  she shares some of his concerns  but she will                                                               
let  the idea  go to  the  finance committee.  Innovation may  be                                                               
needed to get the  repeat folks that cost so much  money. It is a                                                               
big  bite for  the state,  especially when  trying to  figure our                                                               
fiscal stability. Section 8 is a big part of the bill, she said.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
A roll  call vote was taken  on Amendment 1. Senator  Bunde voted                                                               
in favor, and Senators French,  Green, Stevens, and McGuire voted                                                               
against. Amendment 1 failed on a vote of 1 to 4.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  FRENCH moved  the CS  for SB  100, labeled  25-LS0151\N,                                                               
Mischel,  from  committee  with  individual  recommendations  and                                                               
accompanying fiscal notes.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BUNDE  objected. He  said there were  some good  ideas in                                                               
the bill but the price tag is far too high.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was  taken. Senators French, Green, Stevens, and                                                               
McGuire voted in  favor of moving the CS and  Senator Bunde voted                                                               
against. Therefore CSSB  100(STA) moved from committee  on a vote                                                               
of 4 to 1.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:42:26 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
              SB 101-GUARDIANSHIP AND CONSERVATORS                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  MCGUIRE  announced  the  consideration  of  SB  101.  [The                                                               
committee was working off of  the committee substitute (CS) to SB
101, labeled 25-LS0559\K.]She suggested  an amendment for page 4,                                                               
lines 14-16. Past  testimony indicated that that is  a remnant of                                                               
the old licensing structure.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JOSH   FINK,   Office   of   Public   Advocacy,   Department   of                                                               
Administration said it does appear to be a remnant.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE moved  Amendment 1 "to remove Section  4, lines 14-                                                               
16, and  whatever cleanup  language is needed  by the  drafter to                                                               
make  that flow  well."  Hearing no  objection,  Amendment 1  was                                                               
adopted.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:44:19 AM                                                                                                                    
MR. FINK said the bill is in good shape.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEVENS moved  the CS to SB 101,  labeled 25-LS0559\K, as                                                               
amended,  from  committee  with  individual  recommendations  and                                                               
attached fiscal note(s). There being  no objection, CSSB 101(STA)                                                               
moved from committee.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
               SB 135-ACCOMMODATE 90-DAY SESSION                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
[Comparison to HB 171 is included in the discussion.]                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE  announced the consideration  of SB 135.  She noted                                                               
that there  is a comparison with  the companion bill, HB  171, in                                                               
the committee packet.  She also said there  were three amendments                                                               
passed in the House State Affairs committee this morning.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEVENS noted that only two amendments passed.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:47:13 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  MCGUIRE referred  to the  side-by-side  comparison of  the                                                               
house and senate  bills and said Section 3 is  still in the house                                                               
bill, and  it adds a  section that the first  regular legislative                                                               
session  would start  on the  second  Monday in  January and  the                                                               
second session  on the second Monday  in February. Representative                                                               
Johnson offered that  language because with a late  start date in                                                               
an  election year,  there is  the potential  for the  governor to                                                               
call  a lame  duck session  of  people who  are only  technically                                                               
serving  because the  newly  elected members  have  not yet  been                                                               
sworn in.  If the newly  elected members aren't aligned  with the                                                               
governor, such  a situation  could upset  the public's  will. She                                                               
said she has no opinion.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:50:22 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR GREEN  said that  happened in  the third  special session                                                               
with  non-re-elected members  participating.  "This  makes it  so                                                               
difficult." She asked  if the bill changed the  reporting date of                                                               
the governor. That may solve the problem, she said.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE said it is commiserate.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
RYNNIEVA  MOSS,  Staff  to   Representative  Jack  Coghill,  said                                                               
Amendment 2 that passed in  the house this morning addresses some                                                               
of  the reporting  dates. "I  hope this  matches your  bill." She                                                               
referred  to  Page 6,  line  18.  It addresses  the  supplemental                                                               
appropriations  and the  budget  amendments. The  first year  was                                                               
adjusted to allow 30 days  to submit the supplemental budget, and                                                               
it is 5 days in the second year.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:52:35 AM                                                                                                                    
JOHN BOUCHER, Office of Management  and Budget (OMB), said he has                                                               
been working  with the house  regarding the deadlines,  and there                                                               
is only  one OMB suggestion  that the  house has not  adopted. In                                                               
the odd-number years, OMB proposed  to have the amended budget by                                                               
the  45th  day,  and  the  house  has it  on  the  30th  day.  He                                                               
understands it would be half  way through the 90-day session, but                                                               
"in  terms of  the calendars  that are  set up  in the  odd year,                                                               
which would begin  in January, they provide adequate  time for us                                                               
to prepare a budget."                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE  said there  have been lame  duck sessions  and the                                                               
earth didn't  fall off the axis.  The governor is still  sworn in                                                               
on December 4, so he or she  could still call a lame duck session                                                               
even  with the  house  language.  She asked  Mr.  Boucher if  the                                                               
staggered dates would cause OMB any difficulty.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
9:55:17 AM                                                                                                                    
MR. BOUCHER  said the  only real concern  is moving  the deadline                                                               
for the  final budget up with  a January start date,  because the                                                               
revenue forecast for  the current year won't be  quite as robust.                                                               
There may be a slightly  larger group of amendments the following                                                               
year, he surmised. But revenue  forecasts can change dramatically                                                               
based on the price  of oil, so the budget release  is timed to be                                                               
as close to  the end of the  fiscal year as possible.  It will be                                                               
best to  give the Department  of Revenue the advantage  of having                                                               
the time  to incorporate  the tax  information from  the previous                                                               
year into the spring forecast.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BUNDE asked  the rationale for starting  later instead of                                                               
the normal time. He has heard  that airport problems are worse in                                                               
January, but he is not sure  that is a reason to establish public                                                               
policy. With a  90-day session members may not  be leaving Juneau                                                               
as  often. There  may be  more special  sessions, which  may have                                                               
less impact  to families if they  happen in April or  May, rather                                                               
than June. He asked the reason for beginning the session later.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
9:58:05 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  MCGUIRE said  the Senate  bill also  calls for  a February                                                               
start date, "but this is wide open; it's for us to decide."                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEVENS said it would be  nice to have a little more time                                                               
at home during the winter holidays.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR GREEN said  it had more to do with  deadlines for reports                                                               
and  the  governor's  budget.  It  reduces  pressure,  especially                                                               
during an election year, and  it will result in fewer substitutes                                                               
and amendments.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
9:59:27 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR MCGUIRE  said the staggered  start dates are  confusing. If                                                               
it is a citizen legislature and  members have jobs, it is nice to                                                               
have  a  predictable  schedule.  She said,  "I  don't  share  the                                                               
heightened degree  of paranoia that  something terrible  is going                                                               
to  happen, maybe  because I  lived through  it this  last year."                                                               
There  were only  12 people  that  were not  re-elected who  were                                                               
making decisions [during that lame duck special session].                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. MOSS said the February date  is for the revenue forecast, and                                                               
the  January amendment  was added  when Representative  Gruenberg                                                               
noted that the constitution defines  the term of a representative                                                               
as  two years.  Starting  the  session on  the  second Monday  of                                                               
February, "the term of the  outgoing representatives would end on                                                               
January  15, so  technically you  would  have no  members of  the                                                               
house. Their  term has expired." Currently  that situation exists                                                               
for about eight days in  the gubernatorial election years, and it                                                               
hasn't been  a problem. "This  would only occur once,  because if                                                               
you  had  a  session  in  February, they  would  be  sworn-in  in                                                               
February, and the two-year term would match."                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
10:02:11 AM                                                                                                                   
TAMARA COOK,  Director, Legislative Legal and  Research Services,                                                               
said Ms. Moss is correct. The  constitution says that the term of                                                               
office for  house members is two  years and four for  the senate,                                                               
so with a  staggered start date on  gubernatorial election years,                                                               
some members have a term that  expires early. She said this might                                                               
not be  a problem. As  an administrative matter,  the legislative                                                               
affairs  agency has  treated  legislators as  if  they remain  in                                                               
office  until their  successors are  sworn  in. It  has not  come                                                               
before  the court,  she  said.  If the  term  is moved  radically                                                               
backward,  then  there  is  a  bigger  gap  for  one  cycle.  The                                                               
convening date can  be changed by law. The  problems are inherent                                                               
in the  constitutional language,  which says that  the term  is a                                                               
set  period of  years,  but  it also  gives  the legislature  the                                                               
opportunity to change the beginning  date. "I'm inclined to think                                                               
that  a   court  would  somehow…construe  those   two  provisions                                                               
together to avoid  a situation where we had a  lot of empty seats                                                               
during a critical period."                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
10:04:40 AM                                                                                                                   
SENATOR  FRENCH recalled  testimony saying  the revenue  forecast                                                               
can be  moved. "There is  nothing fixed about the  world economic                                                               
cycle or other reporting agencies that  bring us the raw data for                                                               
preparing the revenue forecast. That  date can be pushed around,"                                                               
he said. The real problem is the  fiscal year is set at a certain                                                               
date.  He surmised  that the  revenue  folks would  like to  wait                                                               
until as  close as possible to  the beginning of the  fiscal year                                                               
before they give  the forecast. He said that makes  sense, but it                                                               
is July 1. So why not move up the revenue forecast?                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOUCHER  said the forecast  can be moved;  it is a  matter of                                                               
what  information  is available  at  the  time.  With a  new  tax                                                               
structure and other  new components, "you want to  have the best,                                                               
most  latest  information available,  and  I  believe that  those                                                               
would  be provided  for in  the annual  tax return."  Forecasting                                                               
should begin shortly after those are filed.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE said that is in April.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH asked if he  is referring to the PPT [profit-based                                                               
petroleum  tax of  2006] law  or just  the general  list of  laws                                                               
passed each year.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BOUCHER said  in this  case it  is the  PPT. Regarding  this                                                               
spring forecast,  the true-up payments  are coming in  around the                                                               
first of April, and that  is critical information for this fiscal                                                               
year  and next.  This is  unique, and  once comfort  is developed                                                               
with the PPT tax structure, it won't be so important.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
10:07:32 AM                                                                                                                   
CHAIR  MCGUIRE said  the state  is so  dependent on  oil and  gas                                                               
revenue, and  the filing deadline is  in April. That is  when the                                                               
legislature gets the most accurate information.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH said the PPT question  will go away soon. He asked                                                               
if there are  other April reports, because the  PPT payments come                                                               
every month.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOUCHER said  he believes that there is a  true-up at the end                                                               
of the year.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH  said that on  April 2  there will be  the true-up                                                               
from  the transition  to the  PPT, and  it is  a one-time  event.                                                               
"We're  looking for  a billion  dollars to  enter the  state bank                                                               
account on Monday," but it is a one-time event.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
10:09:00 AM                                                                                                                   
SENATOR STEVENS asked  if the law states  that legislators remain                                                               
in office until the successors are in.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. MOSS  said the only  law is  the constitution that  defines a                                                               
term as two years.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEVENS suggested  clarifying that a person  is in office                                                               
until a successor is sworn in.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE  said that is a  great idea and she  asked for that                                                               
amendment from legal services.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. COOK  said she presumes that  would be limited to  the period                                                               
at the end of  a session. "You would not want  a person to remain                                                               
in office until a successor is  appointed by the governor in case                                                               
of vacancies that  occur mid-term." If someone  resigns, there is                                                               
a system for filling vacancies.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
10:11:15 AM                                                                                                                   
CHAIR MCGUIRE said yes, and she  asked for a draft for both bills                                                               
in that narrow context, because it  will likely be the house bill                                                               
that moves forward.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  BUNDE said  the  ability of  committees  to take  action                                                               
while not in regular session is not addressed in the bill.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. MOSS said  in the House State Affairs  Committee this morning                                                               
there was  an amendment that  a person could  vote telephonically                                                               
and move a  bill out of committee, but it  failed. The committees                                                               
can now  meet in  the interim  but cannot move  a bill.  The bill                                                               
would sit in  limbo because it needs to be  read across the floor                                                               
before going to the next committee.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS. COOK  said both standing  and special committees  are allowed                                                               
under  the uniform  rules to  meet  and hold  hearings on  bills.                                                               
There is  nothing prohibiting a  committee from reporting  a bill                                                               
from committee, but  there is no mechanism to  deliver the report                                                               
to the  Chief Clerk  or Senate Secretary.  If the  matter remains                                                               
unaddressed  in the  bill, then  there  is the  problem that  the                                                               
uniform rules require  the physical presence at the  site where a                                                               
committee is held  for a vote to report a  bill from committee. A                                                               
member attending by  teleconference cannot vote, and  that may be                                                               
a greater problem in the interim when members are scattered.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
10:14:46 AM                                                                                                                   
CHAIR  MCGUIRE said  the legislature  would have  to call  itself                                                               
back in for technical sessions.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  STEVENS   asked  why   Amendment  3   by  Representative                                                               
Gruenberg did not pass because it addresses those issues.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MOSS said  the members  want eye-to-eye  contact with  other                                                               
members.  A legislator  may call  in from  home and  have someone                                                               
passing notes  and providing information or  influence that other                                                               
members would not have access to or have knowledge of.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
10:17:03 AM                                                                                                                   
SENATOR STEVENS said he understands  that, but he asked about the                                                               
issue of reporting the bill from committee.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. MOSS said there was no  concern about that, it was just about                                                               
having  the same  information  and access  to  people. "The  only                                                               
thing this amendment  really does is it allows  a telephonic vote                                                               
to move the bill out of committee."                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BUNDE said this is  interesting that in the internet age,                                                               
eye contact is needed. Members  have wanted to participate from a                                                               
hospital  and haven't  been allowed  to. "How  many times  on the                                                               
floor would  a fellow  legislator or  a staff  member give  you a                                                               
note?" The  members in the front  might not be privy  to that, he                                                               
stated.  If  the  90-day  session is  to  save  money,  requiring                                                               
flights and per diem of far-flung members needs more discussion.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
10:19:36 AM                                                                                                                   
SENATOR  FRENCH asked  about the  requirement of  reading a  bill                                                               
across the floor  before moving it to the next  committee, and if                                                               
that is in the constitution or in the uniform rules.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS. MOSS said it is in the uniform rules.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. COOK  said the constitution  requires three readings,  but it                                                               
is silent with  regard to moving the bill to  the next committee.                                                               
The bill is  not in second reading until it  appears on the floor                                                               
having  been   calendared.  It  is  public   policy  because  the                                                               
legislature  can control  its own  internal procedure,  including                                                               
the  referral  of  bills  to  committees  and  the  accepting  of                                                               
reports. If a committee report  travels from one committee to the                                                               
next without  going to the floor,  there is no opportunity  for a                                                               
member to object to that report. That will be lost, she stated.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH  said he has never  seen that happen in  his short                                                               
experience. He asked,  "Are we recreating the  wheel?" The voters                                                               
said they  wanted a 90-day  session. What does  it mean to  do an                                                               
enormous  amount of  interim work?  Did the  voters not  want the                                                               
members  in  Juneau  for  very  long,  did  they  want  them  not                                                               
legislating for  very long, or  did they  want to save  money? He                                                               
said there will be pressure to get the work done in 90 days.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
10:22:02 AM                                                                                                                   
SENATOR STEVENS  said the  public said a  90-day session,  and we                                                               
have to  find a way to  cut a quarter  out of the time  spent. He                                                               
said there must  be a way to allow committees  to operate [in the                                                               
interim],  or  else the  legislature  is  setting itself  up  for                                                               
failure. Serious consideration  needs to be given  to allow bills                                                               
to move between committees.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE  said the  committee may  want to  incorporate that                                                               
into the bill.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  BUNDE said  lobbyists would  love the  provision that  a                                                               
bill dies  if it doesn't  move out  of its originating  house the                                                               
first year because  "it will give them another  pressure point to                                                               
really focus on."  The voters may want less  legislation. If that                                                               
can't be done, perhaps the number of bills should be limited.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
10:24:38 AM                                                                                                                   
MS.  MOSS said  that  provision  of a  bill  dying  in the  first                                                               
session died quickly.  There has been discussion  on limiting the                                                               
number of bills a legislator could file.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEVENS  said there  is a lot  of opposition  to limiting                                                               
the number of  bills, but the next step is  requiring bills to be                                                               
introduced  prior to  session. That  would reduce  the number  of                                                               
bills, he said. Perhaps only  committee bills could be introduced                                                               
after the beginning of session.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE said  there is a version of that  after the 24-hour                                                               
rule goes into effect.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS  MOSS said  that  is  in the  second  session  only, and  that                                                               
deadline may be about the 45th day.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
10:26:26 AM                                                                                                                   
MS. COOK said  she thinks the personal bill deadline  is the 35th                                                               
day after convening the second session.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE said there is some precedence for it.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  BUNDE  said Senator  Steven's  idea  would increase  the                                                               
influence of  the committee  chair. He expects  there could  be a                                                               
lot of slippage.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  MCGUIRE  announced  she  would hold  SB  135  for  further                                                               
consideration.                                                                                                                  
There being  no further  business to  come before  the committee,                                                               
Chair McGuire adjourned the meeting at 10:28:12 AM.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                

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