Legislature(2003 - 2004)
02/11/2003 03:30 PM Senate STA
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ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
SENATE STATE AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE
February 11, 2003
3:30 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Robin Taylor, Chair
Senator Fred Dyson
Senator Gretchen Guess
Senator Lyman Hoffman
Senator John Cowdery
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SENATE BILL NO. 9
"An Act relating to the evaluation and cleanup of sites where
certain controlled substances may have been manufactured or
stored; and providing for an effective date."
MOVED CSSB 9 (STA) OUT OF COMMITTEE
SENATE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 1
Relating to economic development generated by new road
construction and to the design and construction of the Hot
Springs Loop Road to connect Chena Hot Springs and Circle Hot
Springs.
MOVED CSSCR 1 (STA) OUT OF COMMITTEE
SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 5
Urging the President of the United States and the Congress to
act to ensure that federal agencies do not retain records
relating to lawful purchase or ownership of firearms gathered
through the Brady Handgun Bill instant check system.
MOVED CSSJR 5 (STA) OUT OF COMMITTEE
SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 6
Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the State of
Alaska relating to the duration of a regular session.
HEARD AND HELD
PREVIOUS ACTION
SB 9 - No previous action to record.
SCR 1 - No previous action to record.
SJR 5 - No previous action to record.
SJR 6 - No previous action to record.
WITNESS REGISTER
Tim Rogers
Municipality of Anchorage
P.O. Box 196650
Anchorage, Alaska 99510
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SB 9
Al Storey
Department of Public Safety
PO Box 111200
Juneau, AK 99811-1200
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SB 9
Kurt Kornchuk
Anchorage Police Department
Anchorage, Alaska 99510
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SB 9
Larry Dietrick
Director, Division of Spill Prevention & Response
Department of Environmental Conservation
410 Willoughby
Juneau, AK 99801-1795
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on SB 9
Senator Gary Wilken
Alaska State Capitol
Juneau, AK 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor SCR 1
Mac Carter
President, Community of Central
Central, Alaska 99730
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SCR 1
Amy Seitz
Staff to Senator Wagoner
Alaska State Capitol
Juneau, AK 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Introduced SJR 5
Carl Rosier
Territorial Sportsman Representative
Juneau, AK 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SJR 5
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 03-2, SIDE A
CHAIR ROBIN TAYLOR called the Senate State Affairs Standing
Committee meeting to order at 3:30 p.m. Present were Senators
Guess, Hoffman, Dyson, and Chair Taylor.
The first order of business was SB 9.
SB 9 - CLEANUP OF ILLEGAL DRUG SITES
SENATOR GUESS, bill sponsor, explained the purpose of the bill
is to ensure illegal drug sites are cleaned up before they are
reoccupied. The responsibility for the clean up rests with the
property owner although the government does set standards and
procedures for the clean up.
In Alaska there are between 25 and 50 sites that require
cleaning each year. It's important these sites are cleaned
because of the adverse health effects on children in particular.
SENATOR GUESS advised members the bill passed the House during
the previous session and had been scheduled for the Senate
floor. She introduced a draft committee substitute (CS) that
made two changes. At the request of law enforcement, she added
new drugs and chemicals to the list. This change occurs on page
5 beginning on line 16. The second change is at the request of
the Administration to make sure the testing procedures are
adequate and the sampling of the site is appropriate. This
change occurs on page 4, line 30. The Administration also
requested a change on page 6, line 9 making it possible for the
owner to certify and submit satisfactory evidence that the
property is clean.
In Alaska there is currently no process to follow after law
enforcement posts a notice on a property following an illegal
lab bust. SB 9 will ensure the property owner is notified of the
procedures of sampling, testing and decontamination and that
they self certify that all the procedures have been met before
the property is reoccupied. She noted a property could be sold
prior to clean up provided the owner disclosed the condition of
the property.
To date no police force or municipality has stated any objection
to the bill.
CHAIR TAYLOR asked the record to reflect Senator Cowdery joined
the meeting.
CHAIR TAYLOR called for a motion to adopt the CS for discussion
purposes.
SENATOR COWDERY made a motion to adopt 23-LSO186\H Lauterbach
2/11/03 as the work draft.
There being no objection it was so ordered.
SENATOR COWDERY asked whether the state would be responsible for
clean up of the sites, since the Department of Environmental
Conservation (DEC) has the testing equipment, and would a
borough or municipality be financially responsible.
SENATOR GUESS said DEC would set the clean up standards but the
property owner would be the responsible party.
SENATOR COWDERY asked whether lien holders would be notified.
SENATOR GUESS said the property owner of record would be
notified.
SENATOR COWDERY pointed out the property owner and lien holder
were not one and the same.
SENATOR GUESS replied, to her knowledge, the lien holder would
be notified as well.
SENATOR COWDERY asked about neighbor notification in multi unit
facilities and who would be responsible for residuals that might
migrate to adjoining units such as in a town home.
SENATOR GUESS replied it is her intent that the property owner
where the bust was made is responsible for the entire clean up
including any residuals that might migrate to adjoining or
adjacent units.
She thought someone from law enforcement could explain how they
handle notification in multi unit complexes.
SENATOR COWDERY asked how an adjoining property owner would
become aware of an event if they were away from home at the time
of the posting and arrived home after the clean up was completed
and the sign was removed.
SENATOR GUESS replied that case is not explicitly addressed but
it was a matter of how law enforcement agencies notify.
SENATOR COWDERY then asked if the bill includes every controlled
substance.
SENATOR GUESS said it includes those substances law enforcement
and other experts deem hazardous to human health.
SENATOR COWDERY asked whether there was anything currently in
statute or regulation setting contamination levels to trigger a
clean up.
SENATOR GUESS replied there is nothing in regulation or statute.
CHAIR TAYLOR pointed out required notification information is
given beginning on page 1, line 13 and concluding on page 3,
line 18. However, he didn't find mention of a requirement to
notify lien holders. He asked whether the bill contained all the
changes requested when the bill was heard in the Senate
Judiciary Committee the previous session.
SENATOR GUESS assured him the changes were included.
SENATOR DYSON agreed with Senator Guess that property owners
have an obligation to know what happens on their property, but
he wondered whether the bill addressed the drug manufacturer's
responsibility for decontamination costs.
SENATOR GUESS replied the bill does not address that
responsibility. That would have to be in the rental or lease
agreement. Page 4, line 5 says the lease or rental agreement
isn't voided so a property owner could look for restitution
under that contract. She has yet to find a way to place direct
responsibility on the shoulders of the individual(s) who caused
the contamination.
SENATOR DYSON noted tradition suggests the person who did the
harm pays for the remedy and property owners should be held
responsible only after all opportunities to recapture clean up
costs from the perpetrator have been exhausted. He admitted to
the difficulty involved in that approach. Although drug
manufacturing is lucrative, the manufacturer frequently has few
or no resources to attach.
He asked whether property owners would be required to do a pre
test before starting clean up procedures.
SENATOR GUESS said there is no pre test requirement; property
owners may clean up then test.
SENATOR DYSON asked how much the testing might cost.
SENATOR GUESS said estimates range from one and two thousand
dollars per site.
SENATOR COWDERY expressed continued concern about contaminant
migration in condominium and town home situations. Although the
intent is good, he is troubled about ultimate responsibility and
the level of contamination that would trigger a clean up
requirement.
SENATOR GUESS said she would make sure his concerns were
addressed. She made it clear the process starts when a law
enforcement officer determines there has been an illegal lab.
SENATOR DYSON admitted to having reservations about the bill
saying he must remind himself of the central issue, which is the
health of the next tenant or owner. He thought there should be
ways to make sure judges pay attention to getting restitution
for property owners for clean up costs when imposing sentences.
CHAIR TAYLOR clarified that under a rental agreement there is a
requirement to return the property, fair wear and tear excepted,
in the same condition as when rented. A security or damage
deposit is usually given to secure this agreement. That
contractual relationship is available for the property owner to
bring a suit against the individual for a minimum of six years.
Because the owner would be notified almost immediately if their
property was posted as an illegal drug site, the owner could
quickly find out the extent of their obligations and the
potential costs of clean up. Restitution would be available
through the criminal action at sentencing or through a civil
action brought by the damaged property owner after the fact.
Unfortunately, frequently there are no assets to attach.
CHAIR TAYLOR asked Tim Rogers whether he had anything to add.
TIM ROGERS testified via teleconference the Municipality of
Anchorage supports the bill.
AL STOREY testified via teleconference the Alaska State Troopers
support the legislation.
KURT KORNCHUK, Anchorage Police Department representative,
testified via teleconference and reported there were 25 drug
labs seized in 2000, 35 in 2001 and to date they have cleaned up
13 drug labs in 2003. Any law enforcement officer involved in
the seizure of the labs has been involved in at least 40 hours
of training. They are generally able to identify sites that are
grossly contaminated and could bring DEC in to determine whether
contaminants had migrated. He said the department does support
the legislation.
CHAIR TAYLOR expressed concern about enforcement personnel's
exposure to contaminants.
He then asked Larry Dietrick why it would cost the state $98,000
to develop the regulations and protocols.
LARRY DIETRICK, Acting Director for the DEC Division of Spill
Prevention and Response, explained the fiscal note is based on
the prior bill and reflects the costs associated with property
owners providing evidence to the department that the clean up
was done. The department was to review the information and
verify that decontamination, sampling and testing was done to an
acceptable standard. This was a review and approval capacity,
which would require an estimated half time position.
The\H version CS reflects the self-certification provisions,
which would drop the annual $58,200 Personal Services costs from
the fiscal note. Contractual costs of $35,000 are for the
department to work with a clean up contractor to develop
standards for the property owner. Analytical methods,
contaminant standards, sampling protocols, laboratory methods
and decontamination methods would be established. The intent is
to develop a book the property owner could use to plan and carry
out the clean up. The $35,000 is a one-time cost. Out year costs
of $11,000 are contingency costs for additional contaminants
that weren't initially identified.
CHAIR TAYLOR observed the out year costs are hypothetical and
significant.
SENATOR COWDERY asked if the owners could perform the clean up
work.
MR. DIETRICK explained the intent of the bill is for the
department to establish the procedures and the property owner to
consult those guidelines and see that the work is done.
SENATOR COWDERY asked if drug clean up presented a hazard like
asbestos abatement.
MR. DIETRICK replied the current draft of the bill calls for the
department to maintain a list of contractors with expertise to
perform analysis and clean up. Some states require contractors
to be certified by the state, but that isn't what is currently
proposed. For the smaller situations that are generally found in
Alaska, listing rather than certification is acceptable.
CHAIR TAYLOR made a motion to amend by inserting "and any lien
holders of record" after the word "property" on page 2, line 3
and after the word "property" on page 3, line 7.
There was no objection to amendment 1.
There was no further testimony.
CHAIR TAYLOR asked for a motion to move the bill from committee.
SENATOR COWDERY made a motion to move CSSB 9 (STA) and modified
fiscal note from committee with individual recommendations.
There being no objection it was so ordered.
SCR 1-SUPPORT ROADS/HOT SPRINGS LOOP ROAD
SENATOR GARY WILKEN, bill sponsor, explained the resolution was
about more than just building a road. He used a map to show
members the Steese Highway leading northeast from Fairbanks 130
miles to Central and Circle Hot Springs and the Chena Hot
Springs Road leading east from Fairbanks about 60 miles to the
Chena Hot Springs. Both hot springs are well developed and
provide Alaskans and Alaska visitors a great deal of pleasure.
To him this is an obvious loop road and the resolution supports
looking at the feasibility of connecting the two. There are RS
2477 rights of way that have yet to be identified.
This is the first time in the seven years he has been a
legislator that there has been support for building roads. There
are many roads around the state that individuals are asking this
legislature to support. SCR 1 is the vehicle for the legislature
to express their support to the Governor for building roads for
economic development in Alaska.
SENATOR COWDERY asked if there are any obvious engineering,
construction or geologic difficulties associated with connecting
the two roads.
SENATOR WILKEN wasn't aware of any such difficulties. The Steese
National Conservation Area lies between the hot springs so the
road would have to go through or around that area. The area was
studied in the 1980s but the study has not been located.
CHAIR TAYLOR asked what the length of the road would be.
SENATOR WILKEN replied it would depend on the route, but as the
crow flies, it would be about 40 miles.
SENATOR HOFFMAN asked if both hot springs are in the North Star
Borough.
SENATOR WILKEN said just the Chena Hot Springs is in the North
Star Borough.
SENATOR HOFFMAN asked whether the North Star Borough supports
the resolution.
SENATOR WILKEN replied he had every indication the assembly will
support the resolution, but they haven't taken it up yet.
SENATOR HOFFMAN asked which borough has jurisdiction over Circle
Hot Springs.
SENATOR WILKEN replied it is in an unorganized area of the
state.
CHAIR TAYLOR asked whether he would oppose an amendment adding
the Bradfield Road.
SENATOR WILKEN did not object.
CHAIR TAYLOR introduced work draft 23-LS0228\H Utermohle 2/11/03
and said he would entertain a motion to adopt the same for
discussion purposes.
SENATOR COWDERY made a motion to adopt amendment 1, work draft
23-LS0228\H Utermohle 2/11/03 for discussion purposes.
There being no objection amendment 1 was adopted.
CHAIR TAYLOR said he didn't have a map, but the purpose of the
amendment is to add that project to the bill. He thought the
bill would grow over time.
He said he would entertain a motion to amend to add the Knik Arm
Crossing.
SENATOR COWDERY made a conceptual motion to include the Knik Arm
Crossing in SCR 1.
There being no objection amendment 2 was adopted.
SENATOR DYSON made a conceptual motion to include the road from
Iliamna Bay to Pile Bay in SCR 1. A pioneer road runs from salt
water on Cook Inlet to the northeast corner of Lake Iliamna
making the river toward Lake Clark and the Kvichak River to
Bristol Bay accessible. That road could be a major link to
developing major gold and other minerals in the area as well as
giving residents an alternative source for freight and fuel
delivery.
CHAIR TAYLOR asked about the length of the road.
SENATOR DYSON replied it was just 15 miles.
There being no objection amendment 3 was adopted.
MAC CARTER, Central, Alaska representative, testified his
community is very enthusiastic in its support of the resolution.
The economic opportunity would foster new business and community
growth. The bill speaks to the need for Alaska to expand its
infrastructure.
SIDE B
4:20 p.m.
CHAIR TAYLOR asked for a motion.
SENATOR COWDERY made a motion to move CSSCR 1 (STA) from
committee with individual recommendations.
There being no objection it was so ordered.
SJR 5-DESTROY BRADY BILL RECORDS
AMY SEITZ, staff to Senator Wagoner, introduced the committee
substitute (CS) for SJR 5. She explained that on page 2, line 9
the word "prevent" was deleted and "ensure that" was inserted.
On the same line, "comply with the law prohibiting them" was
inserted after the word "agencies". She explained the changes
are wording preferences.
CHAIR TAYLOR noted the sponsor was absent.
MS. SEITZ told him Senator Wagoner was in another committee
meeting.
CHAIR TAYLOR said that was understandable and he appreciated her
appearance to explain the changes.
He called for a motion to adopt the CS.
SENATOR COWDERY made a motion to adopt CS 23-LS0182\H Luckhaupt
2/6/03.
There being no objection it was so ordered.
CHAIR TAYLOR explained the bill would impact the Brady Handgun
Bill and the instant check system required by the federal
government.
CARL ROSIER, Territorial Sportsmen representative, testified in
strong support of the resolution. He wasn't previously aware of
the CS, but the proposed wording changes were acceptable.
There was no further testimony on SJR 5.
CHAIR TAYLOR called for a motion to move the bill.
SENATOR DYSON made a motion to move CSSJR 5 (STA) from committee
with individual recommendations.
There being no objection the bill moved from committee.
SJR 6-CONST AM: 90 DAY LEGISLATIVE SESSION
SENATOR GRETCHEN GUESS, bill sponsor, explained the resolution
would place a constitutional amendment on the ballot to change
the current 120-day legislative session to a 90-day legislative
session. She opined legislators could accomplish their work in
that time frame and save the state $888 thousand a year.
CHAIR TAYLOR called for questions.
SENATOR COWDERY asked whether she would support elimination of
the five-day notification rule.
SENATOR GUESS said she would give it some thought.
CHAIR TAYLOR said the issue needs periodic debate. Legislators
haven't received a salary increase for 16 years and perhaps
reducing the length of the session would allow more people to
participate in the legislative process.
He thought the work could be accomplished in a shortened time
frame, but he couldn't say whether it would result in better
legislation for the people of Alaska.
SENATOR COWDERY noted he has been as busy in the interim as he
is during the 120-day session.
CHAIR TAYLOR said legislative leaders always have demands upon
their time and are busy year round. The questions of how they go
about doing business and whether more or less should be done in
the interim are policy calls that are deserving of review.
SENATOR DYSON identified with the Chair's ambiguous feelings and
expressed a desire to hear additional testimony before passing
the bill to the next committee. He wanted to hear about any
impacts experienced by other states after shortening their
legislative sessions. He also wanted to hear from political
scientists because he could argue that shortening session length
could change the balance of power vis-à-vis the administration.
In addition it might rob power from a minority that uses
deadlines to force the majority into accommodations.
He asked what the other committees of referral were and where
the Chair expected the continued debate to occur.
CHAIR TAYLOR replied the next committee is Judiciary and then
the bill would be referred to Finance because a fiscal note
would be attached to put the issue on the ballot.
He anticipates the major debate would occur in the Judiciary
Committee. The Senate President is seated there and he hopes
they would take the time to discuss the bill. Moving bills
stimulates interest in a debate.
SENATOR DYSON said that would be fine, but because it is a bill
dealing with a fundamental role of a branch of government, he
thought State Affairs is the committee where substantive debate
on the philosophical and policy issues should occur.
SENATOR GUESS made a commitment to Senator Dyson to begin
collecting information on lessons learned from other states as
well as from the academic community.
CHAIR TAYLOR had no objection to holding additional hearings in
the State Affairs Committee, but he contends movement from one
committee to another serves to stimulate interest and
discussion.
He said he would entertain a motion to move the bill, but none
was forthcoming.
SENATOR DYSON assured members his questions were not meant to
kill the bill and he looked forward to hearing enlightened and
expert opinion on the matter.
CHAIR TAYLOR held SJR 6 in committee and announced the bill
would be heard in two weeks.
There being no further business to come before the committee,
Chair Taylor adjourned the meeting at 4:49 p
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