Legislature(1993 - 1994)
03/16/1994 09:10 AM Senate STA
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SENATE STATE AFFAIRS COMMITTEE
March 16, 1994
9:10 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Loren Leman, Chair
Senator Mike Miller, Vice Chair
Senator Robin Taylor
Senator Jim Duncan
Senator Johnny Ellis
MEMBERS ABSENT
All Members Present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 61(FIN) am
"An Act relating to the offense of operating a commercial motor
vehicle while intoxicated and the offense of operating a motor
vehicle, aircraft, or watercraft while intoxicated; relating to
presumptions arising from the amount of alcohol in a person's
breath or blood; relating to chemical testing of a person's breath;
and providing for an effective date."
HOUSE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 27
Relating to support for the National Rifle Association's gun safety
program for children.
SENATE BILL NO. 352
"An Act relating to the confidentiality of certain information in
vehicle records; and providing for an effective date."
SENATE BILL NO. 333
"An Act relating to disclosure of close economic associations by
certain state employees and to the prohibition against nepotism in
the executive branch of state government; and providing for an
effective date."
PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION
HB 61 - See Transportation minutes dated 3/10/94.
HCR 27 - No previous senate committee action.
SB 352 - See State Affairs minutes dated 3/14/94.
SB 333 - No previous senate committee action.
WITNESS REGISTER
Representative Jim Nordlund
State Capitol, Juneau, AK 99801-1182¶465-4968
POSITION STATEMENT: prime sponsor of HB 61
Candy Lightner
American Beverage Institute
Washington, D.C.¶(202)347-4978
POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to HB 61
Rebecca Brown, National President
Mothers Against Drunk Driving (MADD)
Texas¶(214)744-6233
POSITION STATEMENT: in favor of HB 61
Lynda Adams
Alaskans for Drug-Free Youth
2417 Tongass Ave., Ketchikan, AK 99901¶247-2273
POSITION STATEMENT: in favor of HB 61
Juanita Hensley, Chief
Driver Services
Division of Motor Vehicles
Department of Public Safety
P.O. Box 20020, Juneau, AK 99802-0020¶465-4335
POSITION STATEMENT: in favor of HB 61
Margot Knuth, Assistant Attorney General
Criminal Division
Department of Law
P.O. Box 110300, Juneau, AK 99811-0300¶465-3428
POSITION STATEMENT: in favor of HB 61
Representative Con Bunde
State Capitol, Juneau, AK 99801-1182¶465-3759
POSITION STATEMENT: prime sponsor of HCR 27
John George
Alaska Outdoor Council
9515 Moraine Way, Juneau, AK 99801¶789-0172
POSITION STATEMENT: in favor of HCR 27
Bill Quinn, Secretary
Alaska Investigators Association
2006 Crataegus Circle, Anchorage, AK 99508¶258-7400
POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to SB 352
H.H. "Tres" Lewis
Private Investigator
POSITION STATEMENT: opposed to SB 352
Senator Randy Phillips
State Capitol, Juneau, AK 99801-1182¶465-4949
POSITION STATEMENT: prime sponsor of SB 333
Randy Welker, Auditor
Legislative Audit
P.O. Box 113300, Juneau, AK 99811-3300¶465-3830
POSITION STATEMENT: testified on SB 333
Mike McMullen, Manager
System Services
Division of Personnel/EEO
Department of Administration
P.O. Box 110201, Juneau, AK 99811-0201¶465-4430
POSITION STATEMENT: testified on SB 333
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 94-17, SIDE A
Number 001
CHAIRMAN LEMAN calls the Senate State Affairs Committee to order at
9:10 a.m.
Number 012
CHAIRMAN LEMAN brings up HB 61 (LOWER ALCOHOL LIMIT TO 0.08 FOR
OMVI'S) as the first order of business before the Senate State
Affairs Committee. The chairman asks the prime sponsor to join the
committee and give a brief statement on HB 61.
Number 022
REPRESENTATIVE JIM NORDLUND, prime sponsor of HB 61 states the bill
will lower the blood alcohol limit from .0.10 to 0.08. It is
commonly known as the 0.08 bill. HB 61 is necessary because a
person with a blood alcohol level of 0.08 is significantly impaired
in their ability to operate a motor vehicle. Many studies conclude
this statement in findings showing impairment in a person's
reaction time, tracking, emergency response time, coordination,
comprehension, eye movement, and other physical responses needed to
safely operate a motor vehicle. Representative Nordlund cites
statistics on blood alcohol levels.
REPRESENTATIVE NORDLUND states the main opposition to HB 61 is
coming from the bar and restaurant association owners in the state.
That ends Representative Nordlund's testimony.
Number 095
CANDY LIGHTNER, American Beverage Institute (ABI), testifying from
Washington D.C. states the institute is comprised of restaurants,
hotels, and recreation centers. The ABI's agenda is to research
public policy issues on adult beverages and to inform the
membership, legislators, and the media about the facts regarding
these issues so that informed decisions can be made. The ABI's
message to restaurant employees and the people they serve
emphasizes moderation in drinking and responsibility in driving.
MS. LIGHTNER thinks the problem of drunk driving today is greatly
diminished from the early 1980's. Ms. Lightner says the problem
now is to figure out how to treat the problem of drunk driving
today, versus the problem in the 1980's. ABI suggests seeking out
the truly dangerous drunk drivers. ABI agrees with an Alaska State
House of Representatives Task Force report on drunk driving which
states little has been done to address the problem of the repeat
drunk driver offender, the cause of most of our alcohol related
highway accidents. That is why ABI opposes lowering the BAC (Blood
Alcohol Content) to 0.08: it does not address the problem of repeat
offenders. HB 61 will not stop repeat offenders from driving while
intoxicated.
MS. LIGHTNER states most persons convicted of DWI have BAC's of at
least 0.15, and many have levels of 0.20 and higher. These persons
have driven while intoxicated many times before, and many times
without getting caught. Ms. Lightner cites statistics from several
studies.
MS. LIGHTNER states ABI has had contact with law enforcement
personnel, judges, and legislators who agree with ABI's position.
ABI was recently successful in having 0.08 BAC eliminated from a
bill in the State of Washington. That bill is called the graduated
penalty bill, and would penalize high BAC drivers. Unfortunately
it is politically correct for politicians to support lower BAC
levels.
MS. LIGHTNER questions whether there is any current evidence
supporting a move to 0.08 BAC as effective public policy. Ms.
Lightner cites more studies to support her statement.
MS. LIGHTNER believes the legislature should concentrate on changes
that will impact the problem of high BAC drivers and repeat
offenders. These individuals are the ones who have consistently
violated exsisting laws, and are unlikely to respond to laws that
merely lower the BAC limit. She states ABI would be happy to work
with the legislature on real solutions and urges the legislature to
consider ABI's perspective.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN thanks Ms. Lightner for her testimony and asks if
members have any questions.
Number 204
SENATOR ELLIS asks Ms. Lightner when she changed her affiliation
from MADD to the liquor industry.
MS. LIGHTNER replies she has not been involved with MADD for eight
or nine years. She does not work for ABI itself, but for Berman &
Co., which is a government relations firm in Washington, D.C. She
currently works with a number of different clients. ABI happens to
be just one of those clients, and she agrees with them on the 0.08
BAC issue.
MS. LIGHTNER states that many people know her daughter was killed
by a drunk driver, but what many people do not know is that it was
the driver's fifth offense. Two days before the driver killed Ms.
Lightner's daughter, he was involved in a hit-and-run crash and had
a 0.20 BAC. The driver blacked out at the time he killed her
driver, which means he had a very high BAC. After he was released
from a half-way house, he was again arrested in a drunk driving
crash in which he injured somebody and had a 0.20 BAC. About a
year and a half ago he was again arrested for DWI in the state of
Wisconsin. He had a 0.20 BAC, and he was treated as a first time
offender. Ms. Lightner wants the committee to know that she comes
from a very personnal level of involvement on why the high BAC
offender should be pursued.
SENATOR ELLIS asks if the lobbying firm she works for represents
other liquor interests.
MS. LIGHTNER responds the ABI is the only client of her firm, that
she is aware of, which involves the restaurant industry. Ms.
Lightner states she must say she doesn't really understand what
difference that could possibly make, and she does not know if that
question is asked of other lobbyists.
SENATOR ELLIS states that question is not out of character for him
in trying to figure out what a person's motivation is in pushing or
opposing legislation.
MS. LIGHTNER states Senator Ellis should be well aware of what
restaurant's motivations are, because he has heard them often
enough in the past couple of months. Ms. Lightner says she comes
from a safety point of view, because she is not involved in the
restaurant industry and does not know all their financial
ramifications. But she does know the research, has read it, is
aware of it, and wants to help that position.
Number 248
SENATOR ELLIS tells Ms. Lightner it would be an understatement to
say her position carries very little credibility with him, given
who she represents as a business deal.
SENATOR ELLIS asks Ms. Lightner to clarify the term "serious drunk
drivers", and asks if that is opposed to non-serious drunk drivers
or non-dangerous drunk drivers.
MS. LIGHTNER responds she was not using the term to connote such a
thing as a non-serious drunk driver, but in reference to the most
dangerous drunk drivers on our highways. Ms. Lightner states she
will remember Senator Ellis' comment about her credibility, and she
hopes he treats other lobbyists the same way, letting them also
know that they have variable credibility with him relating to who
they represent.
SENATOR ELLIS states he believes he is consistent in his treatment
of lobbyists.
MS. LIGHTNER thanks the committee for allowing her to testify.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN thanks Ms. Lightner for her testimony.
Number 260
SENATOR TAYLOR says some people have a tendency to determine a
human being's credibility based upon their occupation. Senator
Taylor remembers when people used to do that based on race. He
finds that basis as offensive as Senator Ellis' comments this
morning. Senator Taylor says he often disagree with people, but
does not find it necessary to impugn their personal integrity based
upon their occupation. He is upset to hear that kind of comment,
and thinks it demeans the other legislators at the table. He
thanks Ms. Lightner for her testimony and acknowledges her personal
tragedy. He does not believe Ms. Lightner has "sold out" by
representing ABI.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN hearing no further questions of Ms. Lightner, calls
the next witness.
Number 284
REBECCA BROWN, National President, Mothers Against Drunk Driving
(MADD) wants to underscore how important it is to lower the
allowable BAC to 0.08. MADD has supported a BAC level of 0.08 for
more than ten years. Ms. Brown cites various reports and
statistics. (A good part of Ms. Brown's testimony is not
understandable due either to teleconference or taping problems.)
Number 380
SENATOR TAYLOR states it was difficult to understand much of Ms.
Brown's testimony, and asks if she can submit it to the committee
in writing.
MS. BROWN responds she will fax it to the committee today.
SENATOR TAYLOR asks Ms. Brown to define ALR.
MS. BROWN replies ALR is the acronym for Administrative License
Revocation. Ms. Brown explains the circumstances under which ALR
is used.
SENATOR TAYLOR states he believes ALR has been used for some time
in Alaska, but it was not clear in Ms. Brown's testimony what ALR
stood for. He asks Ms. Brown if she has had an opportunity to
review Alaska's Statutes on drunk driving.
MS. BROWN replies that she personally has not, but someone with
MADD has done so.
SENATOR TAYLOR urges Ms. Brown to review Alaska's Statutes, and
says he believes they are some of the toughest statutes in the
nation relating to drunk driving. He says he is having a hard time
understanding how going from 0.10 to 0.08 BAC will have a
significant effect on drunk drivers in Alaska. Of course we
haven't gotten to zero yet, and that is what we would all like to
achieve. Senator Taylor wants Ms. Brown to read Alaska's Statutes
so she can see if there is anything else she would like to suggest
that might have even a greater impact than shifting from 0.10 to
0.08. He is willing to address the problem, but does not want to
get caught up in tokenism.
MS. BROWN says MADD believes drunk driving is a big picture, and it
takes many, many counter measures to combat; 0.08 is very
significant part of the big picture. It is not the whole picture,
and there are many other areas.
SENATOR ELLIS wants it noted that there is a written statement from
MADD in the bill packets entitled, "Responses to Editorial Comments
from Candy Lightner." He recommends people read it.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN thanks Ms. Brown and calls the next witness.
Number 425
LYNDA ADAMS, with Alaskans for Drug-Free Youth, and Governor's
Advisory Board on Alcoholism and Drug Abuse, and Ketchikan Mayor's
Task Force on Substance Abuse, testifying from Ketchikan points out
that the legislature will soon receive copies of the new state plan
from the Division of Alcoholism and Drug Abuse. That plan contains
as one of its' goals, reducing the adverse health and social
consequences resulting from consumption of alcohol. Part of that
goal entails lowering the allowable BAC from 0.10 to 0.08 for
drivers 21 years of age or older. Ms. Adams states that lowering
the BAC to 0.08 is also supported by Healthy People 2000 and
Healthy Alaskans 2000. Ms. Adams cites statistics relating to BAC
levels.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN thanks Ms. Adams for her testimony. The chairman
states he would like to deal with HB 61 today, but if testimony
continues for a long period of time, the committee will lose a
quorum and not be able to move the bill out of committee. The
Chairman asks Ms. Hensley from the Division of Motor Vehicles if
she would like to testify.
Number 479
JUANITA HENSLEY, Chief, Driver Services, Division of Motor Vehicles
(DMV), Department of Public Safety (DPS) states about a year and a
half ago, the Alaska Supreme Court rendered a decision stating
Alaska courts could not use convictions in states with 0.08 BAC
laws as prior convictions in Alaska. They must be treated as a
first time offender, even if their BAC was 0.30 for the prior
offense. As a consequence, as long as Alaska remains at a 0.10
BAC, prior convictions from any of the 0.08 BAC states, cannot be
used as prior conviction in court in Alaska. DPS strongly supports
HB 61. Federal 410 grants to the state for alcohol education and
enforcement will be cut off if Alaska does not pass a 0.08 BAC law,
we will lose that money. HB 61 will also address the problem Ms.
Lightner had regarding the man who killed her daughter being
prosecuted as a first-time offender in Wisconsin.
Number 505
CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks Ms. Hensley if there is something the
legislature can do to take prior offenses in 0.08 states into
account during sentencing.
MS. HENSLEY states she may refer that question to Ms. Knuth.
However, the Alaska Supreme Court did find that Alaska's law was
not substantially similar to the laws of those states with 0.08 BAC
laws.
Number 512
SENATOR TAYLOR asks what happens when a state decides it wants to
lower its' BAC level to 0.06 or 0.05. Would that then cause a
reaction across the U.S.; would every state then have to reduce to
that level to have a similar law?
MS. HENSLEY responds she believes that would be the case. DMV is
not saying a person cannot go out and drink. All we are saying is,
if you drink, be responsible and don't get behind the wheel of a
car. Alaska has a 60% alcohol related fatality rate. That is well
above the national average.
Number 524
SENATOR TAYLOR asks Ms. Hensley if she knows of any studies showing
0.08 is preferable to 0.05 or any other BAC level. How was 0.08
arrived at.
MS. HENSLEY replies studies done have shown that the more one
drinks, the higher the chances are of having a fatal crash. Ms.
Hensley says she believes the committee has charts showing
information from studies in their bill packets.
SENATOR TAYLOR asks if, in the future, we will improve things by
passing a 0.07 law; the year after that we'll go to 0.06. He has
seen the process occur over the past ten years, and wants to know
if the legislature shouldn't consider the evidence for passing a
law stipulating a 0.06 BAC, or any other level. Why should we stop
at 0.08? Why not go all the way down to 0.05?
MS. HENSLEY states commercial drivers have a BAC limit of 0.04.
Ms. Hensley believes that in the interest of public safety, all
drivers should have a BAC limit of 0.04. Any time a life is lost
because of a drunk driveris terrible. Of course morals cannot be
legislated, but we would certainly hope people are not getting
behind the wheel of a motor vehicle at even a 0.04 BAC. Ms.
Hensley states she agrees with Senator Taylor and thinks the
allowable BAC level should be even lower than 0.08.
SENATOR TAYLOR says he appreciates Ms. Hensley's comment.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN says he does not agree with Ms. Hensley that morals
cannot be legislated. The chairman asserts that every time a law
is passed, the legislature is establishing some level of morality.
People cannot be forced to act as we do, but we are establishing
some level of moral behavior. The chairman thanks Ms. Hensley for
her testimony. The chairman calls Ms. Knuth to testify.
MARGOT KNUTH, Assistant Attorney General, Criminal Division,
Department of Law states Ms. Hensley was correct in her statement
regarding the Alaska Supreme Court decision from about a year and
a half ago, saying, " a conviction from a 0.08 state is not
substantially similar to Alaska's DWI offense." It does not matter
what the person's BAC level was in that prior offense. The person
could have a 0.20 BAC, but if they were from a 0.08 state, the
elements are not substantially similar; we cannot count it for
purposes of our aggravated sentencing structure for DWI. That is
offensive. Ms. Knuth says she felt Ms. Lightner's pain when
hearing of Ms. Lightner's daughter's killer being treated as a
first time offender. The answer from the Alaska Supreme Court was
for the legislature to go to 0.08 BAC. The only other thing we do
is to have judges look at the reality of the situation and have
them impose and aggravated sentence, at the judges disrcretion.
However, that does not happen state-wide. We would then be relying
on the judges perception of the situation.
MS. KNUTH would like to note that Alaska Supreme Court has decided
the margin of error on the intoximeter is at 0.01. What this means
is technically, Alaska is at a 0.11 state. If HB 61 is enacted,
Alaska will not be a 0.08 state, but will be a 0.09 state. For
that reason, this legislation has become even more important to the
Department of Public Safety and the Department of Law. It is
possible to try to address that margin of error, but it would be
easier to adopt the 0.08 level being adopted nation-wide. As there
has been a consistency in the 0.04 BAC for commercial drivers,
there has also been a consistency in 0.08 for the rest of the
population. She understands Senator Taylor's question, "Why 0.08",
and is not sure what the answer is. She is sure it is the one
number states are turning to.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks if the 0.01 margin of error on the intoximeter
will cause the supreme court to not take into account convictions
in other states.
MS. KNUTH replies she would like to think they would not go that
far.
SENATOR TAYLOR says it is no real shock to him...
TAPE 94-17, SIDE B
Number 593
...when the new intoximeter came out, we (the judges) were very
carefully instructed that there was a margin of error to the
intoximeter, and the benefit of the doubt was always to go to the
defendant. The fact that the supreme court has now stated that
that is the case, does not change the calibration on one single
machine, and does not change the manner in which defendants are
prosecuted or convicted.
MS. KNUTH states it does not change the calibration of the machine,
but it does change the manner of convicting people. The courts
said not only is there the inherent "fudge-factor" that the machine
gave to the benefit of the defendant, but the state has to give
them a 0.01 benefit. The state cannot prosecuted someone under the
0.10 BAC presumptive level if their BAC is less than 0.11.
SENATOR TAYLOR says he watched prosecutions take place, he believes
they are still taking place, in which a defendant's BAC was well
under 0.10.
MS. KNUTH states that is on the basis of conduct.
SENATOR TAYLOR states he does not think HB 61 will be a major hoop
in the process of prosecuting DWI's, with the evidence the state
currently has available to use. He asks if the state is allowed to
use a previous conviction in a 0.08 state, if the conviction
occured before the state changed from 0.10 to 0.08.
MS. KNUTH responds she would have to look into that question.
SENATOR TAYLOR asks if there is a way to draft the legislation that
would allow the state to retroactively pick up those convictions.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks Senator Taylor if he could look at that
question and deal with it when it gets to the Senate Judiciary
Committee.
Number 561
SENATOR ELLIS makes a motion to discharge HB 61 from the Senate
State Affairs Committee with individual recommendations.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN, hearing no objection, orders HB 61 released from
committee with individual recommendations.
Number 552
CHAIRMAN LEMAN brings up HCR 27 (SUPPORT NRA GUN SAFETY PROGRAM) as
the next order of business before the committee. The chairman
calls the prime sponsor to testify.
Number 550
REPRESENTATIVE CON BUNDE, prime sponsor of HCR 27 states HCR 27
would ask the schools to address the growing problem of the high
incidence of young people involved in gun accidents. The materials
provided in the gun safety program would be provided at no cost to
public schools by the NRA (National Rifle Association). The
program does not advocate gun ownership or teach the use of guns,
but is aimed at protecting very young children. Representative
Bunde equates the program in HCR 27 with the "stop, drop, and roll"
fire safety mantra. The catch-phrase for the gun safety program
being "If you see a gun, leave the area, tell an adult." The fact
that the program is sponsored by the NRA is a red flag for some
people, but it really does not advocate any of the NRA's
philosophical positions about firearms.
Number 520
CHAIRMAN LEMAN thanks Representative Bundy for making a tape of the
program available, but the committee is running short on time, so
he asks members to watch it on their own time if they wish to do
so. The chairman asks if there is any discussion among committee
members and if there is anyone in the audience who wishes to
testify on HCR 27. Hearing none, he asks Representative Bunde if
there has been any opposition voiced to the resolution.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE states he has not. He says it is an
encouragement to schools to have this education, and is certainly
not a mandate.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks Mr. George if he would like to testify.
Number 512
JOHN GEORGE, Alaska Outdoor Council states the council supports the
concept of training kids to be gunsafe. He would like to have a
copy of the tape Representative Bunde has, because his wife is a
first grade teacher.
SENATOR ELLIS asks if the resolution is necessary, if there is
anything stopping this training from occurring now.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE responds it is just an encouragement.
SENATOR TAYLOR comments as the world becomes a more dangerous
place, the incidence of gun accidents will probably increase. He
suggests gun safety should be mandated, as opposed to merely
recommending it.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE says using the least draconian method is the
first step. If we find we need a more assertive expression of our
will, then perhaps we can do that in the future. The only
resistance Representative Bunde says could possible exist, is the
fear that perhaps something is being advocated from the NRA, which
is not an uncontroversial organization.
Number 488
SENATOR MILLER makes a motion to discharge HCR 27 from the Senate
State Affairs Committee with individual recommendations.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN, hearing no objection, orders HCR 27 released from
committee with individual recommendations.
Number 482
CHAIRMAN LEMAN brings up SB 352 (CONFIDENTIALITY OF MOTOR VEHICLE
RECORDS) as the next order of business before the committee and
calls Mr. Quinn to testify.
Number 467
BILL QUINN, Alaska Investigators Association, testifying from
Anchorage states the association represents 80 or so investigators
statewide. Many of the members are small business persons who
regularly utilize public records. He says the association opposes
SB 352 as it is currently written. He says the associations
members have not misused or abused information procured from the
State of Alaska public records. There is no reason to prohibit or
restrict the access of that information by the associations
members.
Number 442
CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks Mr. Quinn if he has had a chance to look at the
draft committee substitute, which may address some of his concerns.
MR. QUINN replies he has not seen the draft cs.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN says the committee will send him a copy.
Number 435
SENATOR TAYLOR makes a motion to adopt the committee substitute for
SB 352.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN, hearing no objection, states CSSB 352(STA) has been
adopted in lieu of the original bill. The chairman calls the next
witness.
Number 428
TRES LEWIS, Private Investigator recognizes the impetus behind the
bill, but says if it isn't broken, don't fix it. The impetus to
restrict that information was that some crimes were committed using
information from DMV. Mr. Lewis says the telephone book, the Polk
Directory, the Hill-Donley, voter registration, documents from the
assesor's office, city documents, and public utility records are
all public records. However, we live in a very mobile society, and
one of the best source for locating someone is DMV's records. He
suggests not having access to those records will cause delays
within the court system, for example, the process of service for
summons and complaints. He cannot imagine a process server in
Alaska not having access to DMV records. Anything that delays
getting information from DMV, say if he has to write a letter,
slows down the process. He requests information from DMV
approximately 2,000 times per year. Multiply that by about 100
private investigators and process servers in the state, DMV is
looking at several hundred thousand inquiries a year. How many
people will have to be employed to process those inquiries at DMV?
The information service Mr. Lewis uses keeps track of every inquiry
he makes by license plate number. Every time one makes information
requests directly from DMV, that person has to stand in line, sign
a form, they take your driver's license number down, and pay a two
dollar fee. Mr. Lewis estimates every tow truck company, bank, and
title company uses these services.
Number 385
CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks Mr. Lewis if he would look at the committee
substitute to see if his concerns have been addressed. If not, he
can work with the committee to address those concerns. SB 352 will
be held over in committee to continue work.
Number 375
CHAIRMAN LEMAN brings up SB 333 (DISCLOSURE OF EXEC.BR. CLOSE
ASSOCIATIONS) as the next item of business before the committee and
calls Senator Phillips to testify.
Number 370
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS, Chairman, Legislative Budget & Audit
Committee (LB&A) states SB 333 is the result of an audit by LB&A.
SB 333 would apply the same rules for disclosure the legislature
conforms to on the executive branch of government. Randy Welker,
the Legislative Auditor, can fill in the details of the bill.
Number 365
RANDY WELKER, Legislative Auditor states an audit of the Division
of Fish & Wildlife Protection within the Department of Public
Safety (DPS) was performed last year. One of the primary concerns
contained in that audit was the absence of any requirement in the
executive branch ethics act for people who have the ability to
exersize significant discretion in taking or withholding action,
that there is no requirement that they notify anyone of the
economic association they may have with people under their
infuence. This became a particularly keen concern when looking at
the Division of Fish & Wildlife Protection Officers.
Coincidentally, by the use of public information, we were able to
find out that there were Fish & Wildlife Protection Officers whose
spouses had commercial fishing licenses, and who were owners of
commercial fishing vessels. LB&A was able to determine that there
were enough property transactions occurring between the regulated
profession and the Fish & Wildlife Troopers to cause concern.
MR. WELKER states it is not just Fish & Wildlife Protection
Officers LB&A is concerned with. There is nothing now to require
an Oil & Gas Auditor in the Department of Revenue (DOR) to disclose
to their supervisors that they hold significant stock in an oil
company. There is no requirement that a Banking Examiner in the
Department of Commerce & Economic Development (DCED) disclose
significant holdings of stock in a bank. There is no requirement
that an investigator in Occupational Licensing disclose a
relationship with a doctor or a lawyer. What SB 333 does is
require that economic disclosure. It does not attempt to prohibit
it, just require disclosure of that association and reporting to
that employees immediate supervisor.
Number 336
SENATOR TAYLOR asks why one would not want to prohibit close
economic relationships such as those mentioned above.
MR. WELKER responds it might be good to prohibit some close
economic associations, and the legislature has in certain
instances. But those relationships can be varied, and a blanket
prohibition might not be good.
SENATOR TAYLOR says he will give another example. A full time
Alcoholic Beverage Control Board Inspector owns two liquor
licenses.
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS says that should be disclosed.
SENATOR TAYLOR questions if the inspector should even hold that
position, not simply disclose that fact.
MR. WELKER says SB 333 tries to address that situation, not through
prohibition, but through disclosure. That disclosure would give
that person's supervisor the responsibility to ensure that person
is not in a position where they could take or withhold action that
would have an effect on that association. The bill also provides
for the supervisor to direct the divestiture or removal by the
officer of that financial interest. There are options available.
To what extent a person can be told what they can and cannot do,
concerns Mr. Welker. At the least, SB 333 would be a first attempt
at making public awareness of that association. Disclosure is the
first step. If, after disclosure, there are significant additional
concerns, perhaps we should revisit the subject and legislate some
prohibitions.
SENATOR TAYLOR states his frustration relates to being alerted last
year to the fact that a Department of Fish & Game Biologist in
Ketchikan owned a piece of property on the Unik River. Someone
noticed helicopters flying in large quantities of wood to that
property. Apparently, it was being paid for through the Department
of Fish & Game. The Ombudsman's Office reported to Senator Taylor
that there was nothing that could be done about the situation,
because apparently it does not violate any rules, laws, or
regulations.
SENATOR TAYLOR claims that, during the administration of Governor
Sheffield, one had to pay people off to get an Electrical
Administrator's License in Alaska. There was taped evidence
brought into court showing if a person was not the right friend of
Ike and the IBEW (International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers),
you did not get a license. He believes the executive branch has
much greater opportunity for graft and corruption, than ever would
occur in the legislative halls.
Number 258
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS states he would not have a problem with an
amendment if Senator Taylor cares to amend SB 333. He does not
have a problem with having disclosure and prohibition.
Number 252
CHAIRMAN LEMAN says SB 333 goes next to the Senate Judiciary
Committee, and perhaps that committee can handle a possible
amendment. Recalling the ethics law and the new conflict of
interest statement, the chairman thinks this subject has a tendency
to develop a life of its own. He does not want to make it too
tough for people who do have other legitimate business interests to
participate in state government.
Number 220
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS says Senator Taylor does have a good point.
There is far more opportunity for persons in the executive branch
than for persons in the legislative branch to abuse the public
trust. The main thing Senator Phillips would like to see is public
disclosure of close economic associations.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks if anyone in the public wishes to testify on SB
333. The chairman calls Mr. McMullen from the Department of
Administration.
Number 205
MIKE MCMULLEN, Manager, System Services, Division of Personnel,
Department of Administration states the department has no problem
with the general concept of SB 333. The department would like to
defend the fiscl note. SB 333 would give the department additional
work, so the department is asking for funds to cover that
additional work.
MR. MCMULLEN says all eleven of the state's employees' bargaining
units will find grievance with the nepotism portion of SB 333.
There will be arbitration costs involved with that grievance, and
those are included in the fiscal note.
Number 171
CHAIRMAN LEMAN says he does have several questions regarding the
fiscal note, and agrees the Finance Committee would be a better
place to get into details. Is 3,120$ per day the cost for just an
arbitrator?
MR. MCMULLEN says 3,120$ is the average cost per hearing day, not
for just the arbitrator.
Number 145
SENATOR TAYLOR ask if Senator Phillips would also like to have the
executive branch of government participate in the open meetings
act.
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS says he likes that idea.
SENATOR TAYLOR makes a motion to discharge SB 333 from the Senate
State Affairs Committee with individual recommendations.
CHAIRMAN LEMAN, hearing no objection, orders SB 333 released from
committee with individual recommendations.
Number 135
CHAIRMAN LEMAN adjourns the Senate State Affairs Committee meeting
at 10:30 a.m.
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