Legislature(1993 - 1994)
11/20/1993 06:34 PM Senate STA
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SENATE STATE AFFAIRS COMMITTEE
Anchorage, Alaska
November 20, 1993
6:34 P.M.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Loren Leman, Chairman
MEMBERS ABSENT
Senator Mike Miller, Vice Chairman
Senator Robin Taylor
Senator Johnny Ellis
Senator Jim Duncan
OTHER MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Rick Halford
Senator Dave Donley
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 1
Proposing amendments to the Constitution of the State of
Alaska relating to the individual right to keep and bear arms.
SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 34
Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the State of
Alaska relating to the individual right to keep and bear arms.
PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION
SJR 1 - See State Affairs minutes dated 9/17/93 and 10/23/93.
SJR 34 - See State Affairs minutes dated 9/17/93 and 10/23/93.
WITNESS REGISTER
Portia Babcock, Legislative Aide
Senate State Affairs
State Capitol
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SJR 1 and SJR 34.
Senator Donley
State Capitol
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of SJR 1.
Senator Halford
State Capitol
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of SJR 34.
Brian Judy
National Rifle Association
State Liaison
555 Capitol Mall, Suite 455
Sacramento, Ca. 95814
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Chris Sullivan
4155 McLean
Anchorage, Alaska 99504
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Aaron Shuler
1140 China Berry
Anchorage, Alaska 99504
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Steve Lord
P.O. Box 670271
Chugiak, Alaska 99567
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Doug Eischen
1140 W. 7151 Ct.
Anchorage, Alaska 99518
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Lloyd Barrus
P.O. Box 112853
Anchorage, Alaska 99511
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Jack Ramey
P.O. Box 3602
Kodiak, Alaska 99615
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Larry Shooshanian
14000 Jarvi Dr.
Anchorage, Alaska 99515
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Lorraine Jones
4810 Snow Circle
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Bob Brumlow
3811 E. 84th
Anchorage, Alaska 99501
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Gary Kuhn
No address
U.S. Citizen
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Randy Smith
801 N. Bragaw
Anchorage, Alaska 99508
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Russell Kell
3113 Wesleyan Dr.
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
David Rogers
2148 Sunrise Drive
Anchorage, Alaska 99508
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Billy Toien
4518 E. 3rd Ave., #3
Anchorage, Alaska 99508
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
William Young
5939 E. 38th Ct.
Anchorage, Alaska 99504
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the right to bear arms.
Michael Nolen
3401 E. 66th Ave.
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Robert Rapp
P.O. Box 90432
Anchorage, Alaska 99509-0432
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Kenneth Lower
1419 Elmendorf Drive
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Daniel Stone
P.O. Box 111414
Anchorage, Alaska 99511
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Ron Hamman
1545 S. Hoyt, #29
Anchorage, Alaska 99508
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
John Lawson
1236 East 72nd Ave.
Anchorage, Alaska 99508
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Paul Moore
300 Peppertree Lp.
Anchorage, Alaska 99504
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Dan McKnight
P.O. Box 942
Soldotna, Alaska 99669
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Derek Edmondson
1991 Fyfe Circle
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Jack Ivy
P.O. Box 770025
Eagle River, Alaska 99577
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Jon Hodges
P.O. Box 3991
Alatak Bay, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the right to bear arms and
concealed carry.
Daniel Hawkins
P.O. Box 210543
Anchorage, Alaska 99021
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the right to bear arms.
Eric Grosch
16300 Elizabeth Street
Anchorage, Alaska 99516
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
John Aszmun
7420 Augustine Dr.
Anchorage, Alaska 99504
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Gerald Klien
12311 Tarey Rd.
Anchorage, Alaska 99516
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Ben Clayton
14501 Lach Lomand Lane
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Bear Claw
HC 85, Box 9362
Eagle River, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Kelly Smith
2901 W. 32nd
Anchorage, Alaska 99517
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
David Dorring
2411 Bentern Circle, B-18
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT : Supported SJR 34.
Mike Pulis
3945 Roundtop Circle
Anchorage, Alaska 99504
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Bruce Weisman
P.O. Box 91643
Anchorage, Alaska 99509
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Wayne Watt
21746 A Fig Street
Elmendorf Air Force Base
Alaska 99566
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
William Watson
512 Muldoon
Anchorage, Alaska 99504
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Walter Hargis
8920 Pioneer Drive
Anchorage, Alaska 99504
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Kristina Carlson
1120 Norman, #6
Anchorage, Alaska 99504
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Gary Carlson
2439 Tulane
Anchorage, Alaska 99504
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Kevin Carlson
1120 Norman, #6
Anchorage, Alaska 99504
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Jim Elsan
8332 Endicott
Anchorage, Alaska 99502
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Allen Dubord
18111 Hidden Falls Ave.
Eagle River, Alaska 99577
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Keith Gastfield
11001 forest Dr.
Anchorage, Alaska 99516
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
John Carli
P.O. Box 91123
Anchorage, Alaska 99509
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Marc Viens
2080 Waldron Way
Anchorage, Alaska 99507-1344
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Kirby Brown
11511 Targhee Loop
Eagle River, Alaska 99577
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Rebecca Long
3436 Upland Dr.
Anchorage, Alaska 99504
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Aaron Hastings
8401 Jupiter Dr.
Anchorage, Alaska 99507
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Jim Cann
107 Stewart Street
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Ken Smith
4705 E. 112th Ave.
Anchorage, Alaska 99516
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Charles Martin
3440 Kachemak Circle
Anchorage, Alaska 99511
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the right to bear arms.
Doug Becker
3324 Dickson Dr.
Anchorage, Alaska 99504
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the right to bear arms.
Johann Hamerski, President
Bear Valley Community Council
P.O. Box 110371
Anchorage, Alaska 99511
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Dave Wolfe
8211 Pioneer Dr.
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34.
Jim Farr
3945 Geneva Place
Anchorage, Alaska 99508
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 34 and concealed carry
legislation.
Jerry Fogg
5713 Jennifer Circle
Anchorage, Alaska 99504-4341
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the right to bear arms.
Mark Phillips
1314 Birchwood Street
Anchorage, Alaska 99508
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the right to bear arms and the
right to concealed carry.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 93-38, SIDE A
Number 001
Chairman Leman called the Senate State Affairs Committee
meeting to order at 6:34 p.m. Due to the lack of a quorum,
he announced this meeting would be for the purpose of taking
public testimony. He announced SJR 1 (RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR
ARMS) and SJR 34 (RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS.)
PORTIA BABCOCK, Legislative Aide for Senate State Affairs,
explained the difference between SJR 1 and SJR 34.
SENATOR DONLEY explained that there has been effort for the
past 10 years to establish an individual constitutional right
to keep arms in Alaska. This is part of the movement to
strengthen state constitutions.
SENATOR HALFORD said that most political heads of police
departments are for gun control and he thought the
compromising language in SJR 1 wouldn't get them anywhere.
BRIAN JUDY, National Rifle Association, strongly supported
clarifying the language of the Alaska Constitution and
supported SJR 34.
Mr. Judy noted that the opposition came from law enforcement
leaders, not the rank and file police who are afraid to
express their opinions.
He said we do not need to regulate arms usage, but to penalize
the criminal misuse of firearms. There is a need for
clarification because federal laws regarding weapons are
contradictory.
CHRIS SULLIVAN, NRA member, supported Mr. Judy's testimony.
He added that even with our open carry law, it wouldn't mean
much unless there were concealed carry permits available to
those who reasonably need them. He supported SJR 34.
AARON SHULER, NRA member, supported Mr. Judy's testimony
regarding concealed carry permits and supported SJR 34.
Number 275
STEVE LORD supported SJR 34. He thought that it was a right
of a law abiding citizen to be able to carry a concealed
weapon.
DOUG EISCHEN supported SJR 34. He said he might not be alive
today if he didn't have a weapon concealed when his store was
broken into.
LLOYD BARRUS supported SJR 34. He said we have a right to be
able to protect our families.
JACK RAMEY, testifying via teleconference,supported the right
to bear arms.
LARRY SHOOSHANIAN , testifying via teleconference, supported
SJR 34. He thought it was absolutely necessary. He said that
guns protect him from his own government which is corrupt.
LORRAINE JONES, testifying via teleconference, supported SJR
34. She firmly believed in the 2nd amendment rights. Not
only should you have protection for your family against
outside danger, you also need it for protection against a
hostile government.
BOB BRUMLOW, testifying via teleconference, said his students
in Anchorage are very concerned about being able to protect
themselves. He said weapons are necessary for defense of
persons and country. He supported SJR 34.
Number 450
GARY KUHN , said the right to keep and bear arms by law abiding
citizens needs to be preserved. He said people should talk
to their friends about this issue.
SENATOR DONLEY supported that thought and added they should
talk to the Governor's Office, the Department of Public
Safety, and the Attorney General's Office.
TAPE 93-38, SIDE B
Number 001
RANDY SMITH supported the language in SJR 34.
RUSSELL KELL thought the U.S. was becoming a police state and
supported SJR 34.
DAVID ROGERS, urged Alaskans to make a statement and to
support SJR 34.
BILLY TOIEN, Alaskan Libertarian, supported SJR 34. He said
Libertarians believe in the Americans right to decide how best
to protect themselves, their families, and their property.
The police do not provide security in our homes.
WILLIAM YOUNG said he was raised where a gun was part of a
families' tools. He supported the right to bear arms.
MICHAEL NOLEN, NRA member and certified instructor supported
SJR 34. He said a defenseless citizen would be at the mercy
of the criminal element. The police can't protect each
individual, so the individual must be able to defend himself
and his family by armed force if necessary.
JEFF NOLEN, NRA member, supported SJR 34.
ROBERT RAPP, NRA member, said this country was established as
a republic. The federal government should not have an army
because it represents a power that could take over the
country. The states should have militias. He supported SJR
34.
KENNETH LOWER supported SJR 34. He said the Bill of Rights
gives citizens the right to bear arms against its government.
The government can be trusted less now than when it was first
started.
Number 200
DANIEL STONE said the Bill of Rights protects the states
against the federal government. He said SJR 34 is extremely
critical at this point.
RON HAMMAN , NRA member, supported SJR 34. He said when guns
go the freedom to worship, which is why our forefathers came
to this country, is going to go also.
JOHN LAWSON supported SJR 34. He used liquor prohibition as
an example of what gun prohibition would do. It would create
a commodity, he said, which wouldn't work. We need to look
at the real problems which are moral and ethical.
Number 325
PAUL MOORE, NRA member, supported SJR 34. We need to send a
message to the criminal element that we are not going to "sit
there and roll over and die." Law enforcement can't be
everywhere at once. It is our right to protect our property,
he said.
DAN MCKNIGHT, NRA member, said gun control is one step closer
to one world government. He said he will never give up guns.
Number 375
DEREK EDMONDSON, supported SJR 34 and opposed SJR 1. He said
the law cannot protect you until after the crime has occurred.
People need a method to protect themselves until the police
arrive.
JACK IVY , NRA member, supported SJR 34.
JON HODGES supported the right to carry a concealed weapon.
The citizens of this country need the right to protect
themselves. We can't count on the government to do it.
DANIEL HAWKINS supported the right to bear arms.
ERIC GROSCH pointed out that it is the right of citizens to
bear arms. The reason there is crime is not the proliferation
of weapons. It's because people don't know the difference
between right and wrong. He strongly supported SJR 34.
SENATOR DONLEY clarified that the reason he left militia in
his bill is because he was requested to preserve reference to
it in the constitution to accommodate people in the state
militia.
Number 490
JOHN ASZMUN , NRA member, said he fears danger from the
government, if citizens are not allowed to have guns.
GERALD KLIEN supported SJR 34. He thought the 2nd amendment
is the most important amendment of the constitution, because
without it there is no constitution.
BEN CLAYTON, NRA member, supported SJR 34. He supported the
2nd Amendment to the Constitution of the United States.
TAPE 93-39, SIDE A
Number 001
BEAR CLAW, Eagle River, Alaska, supported SJR 34. He has been
a hunting guide and trapper for 20 years. He believes in the
right to carry and conceal for all law abiding citizens.
KELLY SMITH said when the 2nd amendment was written so that
the individual had the right to keep and bear arms. Only
recent history has relegated that right to government
militias. Citizens should have final recourse against a
tyrannical government. He supported SJR 34.
DAVID DORRING supported SJR 34.
MIKE PULIS supported SJR 34 and not SJR 1. Our rights are not
to be compromised, because then they become privileges granted
by the state. Criminal misuse is the problem. He said many
criminals would be created if there was a prohibition against
guns.
BRUCE WEISMAN , NRA member, supported SJR 34. Citizens should
have the right to carry concealed weapons.
Number 175
WAYNE WATT supported SJR 34.
WILLIAM WATSON said he has talked to thousands of people in
his shop in Muldoon and has not met one who should really not
have the right to keep and bear arms. She said he has talked
to victims of a lot of crimes and not one of them had been
armed. He has talked to people who have stopped rapes and
other crimes and they were happy they had a fire arm to stop
it. People need the opportunity to protect themselves and to
protect others against criminals.
WALTER HARGIS supported SJR 34. He thought SJR 1 was
ambiguous.
KRISTINA CARLSON supported SJR 34. She said an armed society
is a respectable society. She said the right to bear arms is
one of our constitutional rights. She said children are not
taught in school that the Constitution gives them the right
to bear arms.
GARY CARLSON strongly supported the SJR 34. He also supported
a concealed weapons law. He noted that only 20% of the world
is free. The rest of the people are under communism or
tyranny or dictatorship and don't have the right to bear arms.
KEVIN CARLSON supported SJR 34. He said the government cannot
be trusted which is why the Constitution supports the right
to bear arms.
JIM ELSAN said he thought the reason people were taking more
notice of crime is that it is being reported. He is not for
any taxes or restrictions on fire arms or ammunition. He
supports the right to carry concealed weapons.
Number 350
ALLEN DUBORD supported SJR 34.
KEITH GASTFIELD said the judiciary is the strongest part of
our government. The legal gun owner is defined by SJR 34 and
he supports it. He said the biggest gun problem is with
juveniles and juveniles who don't know how to handle guns and
don't have the responsibility.
JOHN CARLI, Eagle River, supported SJR 34. He said the
purpose of law enforcement is to enforce laws, not protect
you.
MARC VIENS, President, Partners In Profit, said that a gun ban
is a precursor to restrictions on the way you worship, where
you meet, etc. He supported SJR 34.
Number 425
KIRBY BROWN, NRA member, supported SJR 34, because it's the
clearest language he has seen so far. He would like it to be
even clearer on individual rights.
JOHN DICKENS said nine years ago after his brother's murder,
he had to draw a weapon twice to preserve his own life from
the people who killed him. Because he carries a large amount
of cash regularly from is lodge to the bank, he asked
Talkeetna police for advice. They told him to get a gun and
practice with it.
RON BROWN said he has seen too many liberties taken away from
us. He thinks we should always be able to bear arms when we
want to - the way it was in the beginning. He supported SJR
34.
REBECCA LONG supported SJR 34.
AARON HASTINGS, part-time employee at a gun shop, strongly
supported SJR 34. He said when he was in the Marines he took
an oath to protect the Constitution of the United States from
enemies both foreign and domestic. He views that as anyone
who is trying to take away his constitutional rights to keep
and bear arms and any other freedoms he has.
JIM CANN, NRA member, fully supported SJR 34. He said that
whenever a crime is committed the police can't stop it. The
only person who can stop it is an individual if he has the
fire arms available.
TAPE 93-39, SIDE B
Number 001
MR. CANN explained that in Switzerland all males from the time
they are 18 years old till 54, they are in a stand-by army.
They have to keep, at least, a fire arm in their home. They
have the lowest crime rate of any nation.
KEN SMITH supported SJR 34. He said all of our rights are
god-given. The only ones we don't have are the ones our
government has taken away from us.
CHARLES MARTIN said he was born and raised in New York City.
He said gun laws do nothing to the criminal, but mostly affect
law-abiding citizens. He supports any legislation that
supports his right to defend himself.
DOUG BECKER said that recently he had the occasion to protect
himself with a gun two months ago. He is very thankful he had
the right to own and keep that fire arm.
JOHANN HAMERSKI, President, Bear Valley Community Council,
said most of them support SJR 34. He said his wife had to
fight back a violent rapist with a pistol a number of years
ago. He has also stopped another rape with the use of a gun.
He also saved himself from a car jacking in Florida when he
pulled out a pistol.
DAVE WOLFE supported SJR 34.
JIM FARR, Attorney, pointed out the importance of the 2nd
amendment. He supported legislation that would strengthen it.
He also supported a concealed carry statute. He supported SJR
34. He also supported a habitual criminal statute in Alaska.
JERRY FOGG said the infringement on our rights to keep and
bear arms is allowing the government to take over. People who
commit crimes should be punished. It is not the guns that
commit crimes.
MARK PHILLIPS supported the right to bear arms. He also
thought we have a right to concealed carry.
SENATOR LEMAN thanked everyone for their participation and
adjourned the meeting at 9:30 p.m.
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