Legislature(1993 - 1994)
02/24/1993 09:02 AM Senate STA
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SENATE STATE AFFAIRS COMMITTEE
February 24, 1993
9:02 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Loren Leman, Chairman
Senator Mike Miller, Vice Chairman
Senator Robin Taylor
Senator Jim Duncan
Senator Johnny Ellis
MEMBERS ABSENT
None
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 5
Relating to the twenty-fifth annual Girls' State.
SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE FOR SENATE BILL NO. 11
"An Act relating to the crime of terroristic threatening."
SENATE BILL NO. 22
"An Act relating to the crime of terroristic threatening."
SENATE BILL NO. 23
"An Act relating to the crime of terroristic threatening."
SENATE BILL NO. 18
"An Act making an appropriation for a grant to the
Municipality of Anchorage for renovation and addition to
West Anchorage High School; and providing for an effective
date."
SENATE BILL NO. 80
"An Act eliminating, consolidating, changing the membership
requirements of, and transferring the duties of various
boards, commissions, councils, panels, authorities,
corporations, foundations, and similar entities of state
government; and providing for an effective date."
SENATE BILL NO. 26
"An Act relating to the location of the convening of the
legislature in regular session; and providing for an
effective date."
PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION
HCR 5 - No previous action to record.
SB 11 - No previous action to record.
SB 22 - No previous action to record.
SB 23 - No previous action to record.
SB 18 - See State Affairs minutes dated 2/10/93,
SB 80 - See State Affairs minutes dated 2/10/93,
2/17/93, 2/19/93.
SB 26 - See Community & Regional Affairs minutes dated
1/28/93, 2/4/93, 2/9/93 and State Affairs
minutes dated 2/17/93, 2/19/93.
WITNESS REGISTER
Representative Gail Phillips
State Capitol
Juneau, AK 999801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Prime Sponsor of HCR 5
Bill Kelder, Staff to Senator Jay Kerttula
State Capitol
Juneau, AK 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Offered information on SSSB 11
Pam Dundy, Staff to Senator Fred Zharoff
State Capitol
Juneau, AK 99801-1182
Jerry Luckhaupt, Legal Counsel
Division of Legal Services
Legislative Affairs Agency
130 Seward St., Suite 409
Juneau, AK 99801-2197
POSITION STATEMENT: Offered information on SSSB 11, SB 22
and SB 23
Mike Nielsen, Captain
Fairbanks Police Department
656 7th Ave.
Fairbanks, AK 99701
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of anti-stalking
legislation
Howard Burger, Alaska State Trooper
5700 E. Tudor
Anchorage, AK 99508
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of anti-stalking
legislation
Dorothy Weeks
Box 2122
Kodiak, AK 99615
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports anti-stalking legislation
Greg Williams
Box 467
Valdez, AK 99686
Leslie Bogda
403 S. Alaska St.
Palmer, AK 99645
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports anti-stalking legislation
Margo Knuth, Assistant Attorney General
Criminal Division
Department of Law
P.O. Box 110300
Juneau, AK 99811-0300
POSITION STATEMENT: Offered information on SSSB 11, SB 22
and SB 23
Marsha McKenzie
Council on Domestic Violence & Sexual Assault
Box 111200
Juneau, AK 99802
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of anti-stalking
legislation
Cindy Smith, Director
Alaska Network on Domestic Violence & Sexual Assault
419 Sixth St., #116
Juneau, AK 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of anti-stalking
legislation
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 93-13, SIDE A
Number 001
Chairman Leman called the Senate State Affairs Committee
meeting to order at 9:02 a.m., introducing HCR 5
(TWENTY-FIFTH ANNUAL GIRLS STATE) as the first order of
business. He noted the meeting was being teleconferenced to
Anchorage, Fairbanks, Kodiak and Valdez.
REPRESENTATIVE GAIL PHILLIPS, prime sponsor of HCR 5,
explained the resolution salutes Girls' State, which will be
held in Fairbanks June 6 - 13, 1993.
Number 030
SENATOR ELLIS noted that one of the criteria for selection
for Boys State was that people not be radicals. He asked if
Girls State also has a preclusion on what someone would say
were radical students. REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS answered
that she has never seen that criterion..
Number 080
SENATOR ELLIS moved that HCR 5 be passed out of committee
with a unanimous "do pass." Hearing no objection, the
motion carried.
Number 095
SENATOR LEMAN brought SSSB 11, SB 22 and SB 23, which all
relate to anti-stalking law, as the next order of business.
BILL KELDER, staff to Senator Jay Kerttula who is sponsor of
SSSB 11, said Senator Kerttula introduced SB 11 primarily
for two reasons: first, because he believes anti-stalking
legislation is necessary to protect the safety and lives of
Alaskans; and secondly, because a number of citizens and
interest groups contacted him asking that such a bill be
introduced.
SSSB 11 amends the state's existing laws on terroristic
threatening to make stalking a criminal act. The bill does
this by dividing terroristic threatening into two levels:
terroristic threatening in the first degree, which would be
a class C felony under this bill; and terroristic
threatening in the second degree, which would be a class A
misdemeanor.
Besides the criminal conduct contained in the existing law,
terroristic threatening in the first degree under this bill
includes conduct that constitutes terroristic threatening in
the second degree when that conduct violates a court order,
or when the person has been convicted of terroristic
threatening in the second degree within seven years of
committing a new crime. In other words, repeat second
degree offenders become first degree offenders under SB 11.
Second degree terroristic threatening covers situations
wherein a person recklessly places another in fear of death
or physical injury to themselves or a family member by
knowingly and repeatedly following or lying in wait for the
person or family member or by similar conduct against the
person or family member.
Mr. Kelder related that Senator Kerttula filed a sponsor
substitute on the bill to include language relating to a
person who is currently in a dating, courtship or engagement
relationship with the person being stalked or threatened.
The change was made in consultation with the Department of
Law, legislative legal counsel, the Department of Public
Safety, and various domestic violence support groups.
Number 160
PAM DUNDY, staff to Senator Fred Zharoff who is prime
sponsor of SB 23, said the legislation basically covers the
same areas as SSSB 11 with one exception. The seven year
period that the victim or members of the victim's family or
household are protected begins following the completion of
the sentence. This includes the probationary period and the
actual jail time that the person would serve. In SSSB 11
and SB 23, the seven years starts running from the time of
conviction of the crime. SB 23 gives the victims more time
in which they are legally protected from this type of
harassment.
Number 177
Senator Leman, as prime sponsor of SB 22, passed the gavel
to Senator Miller so that he could make an opening statement
on SB 22.
SENATOR LEMAN said his bill is similar to SSSB 11 and SB 23.
He said he introduced it because he, too, saw a need for
anti-stalking legislation.
Number 190
JERRY LUCKHAUPT, Legislative Counsel, Division of Legal
Services, Legislative Affairs Agency, said the real
difference between SB 23 from SSSB 11 and SB 22 is the
seven-year period and committing the new crime of
terroristic threatening in the first degree.
Mr. Luckhaupt directed attention to page 2, line 24 of SSSB
11, and the addition to the definition of "family member."
It expands the definition to include "a person who is in a
dating, courtship, or engagement relationship with the
person." The definition in the other two bills limits it to
spouses and blood relatives of the victim or a person who
lives in the same household as the victim.
Number 230
SENATOR LEMAN said one of his concerns is that none of these
would in any way take away from constitutionally protected
activity of expression, for example, if someone wants to
picket or otherwise demonstrate. JERRY LUCKHAUPT said that
has been considered in drafts of the bills. He said if a
person is engaging in a constitutionally protected behavior,
then they basically, by definition, cannot be convicted of
this offense.
SENATOR LEMAN, referring to Section 2, asked if it would be
more appropriate to use the term "serious physical injury"
instead of just "physical injury," which could mean any
physical injury. JERRY LUCKHAUPT responded that "physical
injury" and "serious physical injury" are defined in
statute, and if the committee wants to go with "serious
physical injury" then it will exclude some conduct.
"Physical injury" means any physical injury, any pain, so
that when a person is placed of fear of any physical pain,
someone could be prosecuted under this bill if they meet the
other elements of the offense. "Serious physical injury"
ties it into a death or serious impairment of a limb.
Number 300
SENATOR DUNCAN asked if it was just a judgment call on the
part of the committee as to which bill it will adopt. JERRY
LUCKHAUPT agreed that it was. He added that states are
passing stalking laws every day. Some have used an
aggravator like this to differentiate between the basic
stalking and the first degree, which would be the felony
offense. Some have placed a number of years as a condition
to when an offender repeats the conduct, and others have
placed no condition at all.
Number 325
SENATOR LEMAN asked for a review of the penalties for a
class C felony and a class A misdemeanor. JERRY LUCKHAUPT
said a class A misdemeanor provides a term of imprisonment
of up to one year. A class C felony currently carries a
definite term of imprisonment of not more than five years,
and there is no presumptive term for a first offense in
these conditions. Presumptive term for a second offense
would be two years.
Number 345
SENATOR LEMAN stated the committee would take public
testimony over the teleconference network.
MIKE NIELSEN, Captain, Fairbanks Police Department,
testifying from Fairbanks, stated their department is very
supportive of this effort by the legislature, and that it is
a very necessary tool for law enforcement. There are cases
they have had in Fairbanks and throughout the state where it
would have been an effective tool and may have prevented a
homicide.
Number 380
HOWARD BURGER, an Alaska State Trooper testifying from
Anchorage, stated that he was present to respond to
questions from the committee. He stated the Department of
Public Safety supports the legislation and that they had
suggested the dating/courtship language that has been
included in SSSB 11, although the word "currently" was not
included.
Number 395
DOROTHY WEEKS, testifying from Kodiak and an employee at the
Kodiak Women's Resource & Crisis Center, stated their
support for the legislation. She questioned why Public
Safety would want the word "currently" included, because in
stalking cases, a lot of times it is not current - it can be
two or three years and a person is still following and
threatening an individual. HOWARD BURGER responded that the
reason they added the word "currently" is because they took
it from the current domestic violence statutes. He said
they inserted the word "currently" because the relationship
as an ongoing thing would be strongest from a current
dating, engagement or courtship.
Number 420
GREG WILLIAMS, a reporter with KCHU in Valdez, asked how the
three bills will actually differ from current terroristic
threatening law. MARGO KNUTH, Criminal Division, Department
of Law, responded that the purpose of the stalking law and
of changing the terroristic threatening statute is to reach
conduct that is not reached by existing law, namely, it is
those who recklessly place another in fear of death of
physical injury by lying in wait or engaging in similar
conduct.
Number 465
LESLIE BOGDA, Director of Valley Women's Resource Center in
Palmer, said she was very anxious to see the stalking
legislation pass. In the past they have had many victims
come into their shelter and tell them about stalking that
has occurred in their lives. She said anything that will
help these women that are being stalked will be very
positive.
Number 487
MARGO KNUTH noted that all three of the proposed bills
authorize warrantless arrest, which she thinks is entirely
appropriate for stalking, but they do it in a way that she
thinks can be improved upon. She referred to Section 3 in
the bills where stalking is included in the second
provision, and she suggested it be deleted from there and
instead added to Section 1 because they would like to make a
warrantless arrest of a stalker regardless of the
relationship between the stalker and the victim. She said
it would be more effective to amend AS 12.25.030(b)(1) to
simply say "AS 11.56.740 or 11.56.812; or." SENATOR LEMAN
requested that Ms. Knuth work with staff on her suggested
change, and then it will be brought back before the
committee.
SENATOR TAYLOR asked if Ms. Knuth could also provide for
additional standards so as it avoid misuse or abuse of this
law.
Number 573
SENATOR MILLER feared that this law could be used in what he
feels is a constitutionally protected right such as
picketing. MARGO KNUTH responded that no criminal law could
affect constitutional behavior. To the extent that it is
protected behavior, it's not covered by this statute, she
said.
TAPE 93-13, SIDE B
Number 039
SENATOR ELLIS, speaking to demonstrations and picketing,
said people do wait for women to show up to have abortions
at clinics and they make what he would call terroristic
threats on their lives. He said the words in the stalking
bill lead him to believe that that kind of behavior that
happens every day in this country would be criminalized if
this were to become law. MARGO KNUTH responded that if a
threat is made in a way that causes fear of physical injury
or death, she is not aware that any constitution protects
that behavior.
Number 090
MARSHA MCKENZIE, Council on Domestic Violence & Sexual
Assault, stated the Council's support for anti-stalking
legislation. She noted that each year an estimated six
million women are beaten by the men they live with; a third
of the women who are murdered each year are killed by
husbands or boyfriends; and national statistics show that
about 30 percent of all female homicide victims were stalked
prior to their murders. She said the legislation will cover
the gaps that restraining orders cannot handle, and it will
give more leverage against people who ignore restraining
orders.
Ms. McKenzie related that Council on Domestic Violence would
like to suggest that there be included an additional
aggravating factor which would make the crime a felony if
the offender stalks the victim and is in possession of a
deadly weapon. A similar change was added to restraining
order provisions because of the combination where there is a
restraining order and there is a weapon. Also, the Council
would like to see the provision section broadened to include
convictions of any violent crime against a person because an
offender may have repeated convictions for assault or
sexual. Finally, the Council's preference would be to see a
separate crime of stalking rather than terroristic
threatening, because one of the problems they see with
including it under existing statute is that from a
computerized criminal history, it is difficult to tell what
the nature of the previous behavior would be.
Number 150
CINDY SMITH, Director, Alaska Network on Domestic Violence
and Sexual Assault, said the Network sees this kind of
legislation as a way of being able to actually reduce
incidents of violence and lethality of violence. Ms. Smith
said the Network agrees with the suggested changes made by
the Council on Domestic Violence.
Ms. Smith advised the committee that the Network would be
strongly concerned about changing the "physical injury"
standard to "serious physical injury." She said the
standard is really very high for "serious physical injury"
and she would like to hear more from the Department of Law
on this.
Number 187
SENATOR LEMAN requested that suggested changes be put in
writing and submitted to the committee for possible
inclusion in a committee substitute.
Number 190
SENATOR LEMAN asked Mr. Luckhaupt if he had any comments on
having a stalking category versus terroristic threatening.
JERRY LUCKHAUPT answered that he had not drafted the
legislation and the drafting attorney made the decision to
place it in terroristic threatening. However, he said he
does not believe the crime should be placed in terroristic
threatening, and that it should be placed in AS 11.41. He
suggested amending the terroristic threatening statute by
taking out the intent to place a person in fear of death
language and placing it with the assault offenses.
Number 290
SENATOR TAYLOR said he has had a significant amount of
experience involving domestic violence orders and he has
seen a lot of abuses with it. He said he supports this
concept, but he wants to make certain that this is not
opening the door for significant abuses.
Number 312
HOWARD BURGER asked that the committee consider expanding
the definition of "family member" to include language which
includes the in-law relationship. SENATOR LEMAN responded
that the committee would take his suggestion under
consideration.
Number 341
SENATOR LEMAN stated SSSB 11, SB 22 and SB 23 would be held
in committee, and he requested that any suggested changes be
given to staff.
Number 347
SENATOR LEMAN brought SB 18 (APPR: WEST ANCHORAGE HIGH
SCHOOL). He said he thinks the bill should be amended to
provide for phased construction, but it would be more
appropriate to do so in the Finance Committee. He then
asked for the pleasure of the committee.
SENATOR ELLIS moved that SB 18 be passed out of committee
with individual recommendations. Hearing no objection, it
was so ordered.
Number 382
SENATOR LEMAN brought SB 80 (BOARDS, COMMISSIONS, COUNCILS,
AUTHORITIES) before the committee as the next order of
business. SENATOR ELLIS said he had some amendments he
wanted to offer on the bill relating to the Older Alaskans
Commission and the Pioneer Home Advisory Board. SENATOR
LEMAN requested that he get the amendments to committee
staff so that they can be considered at the next meeting.
Number 415
SENATOR LEMAN brought SB 26 (LEGISLATIVE SESSIONS TO BE IN
ANCHORAGE) before the committee as the final order of
business.
SENATOR MILLER moved that SB 26 be passed out of committee
with individual recommendations. SENATOR DUNCAN objected.
A voice vote was taken with the following result: Senators
Leman, Miller and Taylor voted "yea" and Senators Duncan and
Ellis voted "nay." The Chair stated the motion had carried.
There being no further business to come before the
committee, the meeting was adjourned at 10:22 a.m.
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