Legislature(2019 - 2020)BUTROVICH 205

03/28/2019 03:30 PM STATE AFFAIRS

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Audio Topic
03:38:02 PM Start
03:38:42 PM SJR4
04:27:46 PM SJR5
06:05:40 PM Public Testimony on Sjr 5
07:59:58 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+= SJR 4 CONST. AM: STATE TAX; INTIATIVE TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSSJR 4(STA) Out of Committee
*+ SJR 5 CONST. AM.:PERMANENT FUND & DIVIDEND TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
-- Public Testimony - Starts at 6:00 p.m. --
<Time Limit May Be Set>
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
            SENATE STATE AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                           
                         March 28, 2019                                                                                         
                           3:38 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Mike Shower, Chair                                                                                                      
Senator John Coghill, Vice Chair                                                                                                
Senator Lora Reinbold                                                                                                           
Senator Peter Micciche                                                                                                          
Senator Scott Kawasaki                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 4                                                                                                   
Proposing amendments to  the Constitution of the  State of Alaska                                                               
prohibiting the  establishment of,  or increase  to, a  state tax                                                               
without the approval of the voters  of the state; and relating to                                                               
the initiative process.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED CSSJR 4(STA) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 5                                                                                                   
Proposing amendments to the Constitution of the State of Alaska                                                                 
relating to the Alaska permanent fund and the permanent fund                                                                    
dividend.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD & HELD                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SJR  4                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: CONST. AM: STATE TAX; INTIATIVE                                                                                    
SPONSOR(s): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
01/30/19       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
01/30/19       (S)       STA, JUD, FIN                                                                                          
03/26/19       (S)       STA AT 1:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
03/26/19       (S)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/26/19       (S)       MINUTE(STA)                                                                                            
03/27/19       (S)       STA AT 6:00 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
03/27/19       (S)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/27/19       (S)       MINUTE(STA)                                                                                            
03/28/19       (S)       STA AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SJR  5                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: CONST. AM.:PERMANENT FUND & DIVIDEND                                                                               
SPONSOR(s): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
01/30/19       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
01/30/19       (S)       STA, JUD, FIN                                                                                          
03/28/19       (S)       STA AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SUZANNE CUNNINGHAM, Legislative Director                                                                                        
Office of the Governor                                                                                                          
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions related to SJR 4.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CORI MILLS, Assistant Attorney General                                                                                          
Civil Division                                                                                                                  
Department of Law                                                                                                               
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions related to SJR 4.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
BRUCE TANGEMAN, Commissioner                                                                                                    
Department of Revenue                                                                                                           
Fairbanks, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Introduced SJR 5.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
BILL MILKS, Assistant Attorney General                                                                                          
Civil Division                                                                                                                  
Labor and State Affairs Section                                                                                                 
Department of Law                                                                                                               
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Delivered the sectional analysis for SJR 5.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
LYNETTE CLARK, representing self                                                                                                
Fox, Alaska                                                                                                                     
POSITION STATEMENT: Stated support for SJR 5.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MIKE COONS, President                                                                                                           
Alaska Chapter of Association of Mature American Citizens(AMAC),                                                                
Palmer, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Stated full support for SJR 5.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
JEB STUART, representing self                                                                                                   
Deadhorse, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Stated support for SJR 5.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
JIM CLARK, representing self                                                                                                    
Fairbanks, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Stated support for SJR 5.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
KAREN PERRY, representing self                                                                                                  
Chugiak, Alaska                                                                                                                 
POSITION STATEMENT: Stated that she is on the fence on SJR 5.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
GARY MCDONALD, representing self                                                                                                
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Stated support for SJR 5.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
WILLIAM TOPEL, representing self                                                                                                
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Stated support for SJR 5.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
KYLER DIAS, representing self                                                                                                   
Wasilla, Alaska                                                                                                                 
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
VIKKI JO KENNEDY, representing self                                                                                             
Kodiak, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
RANDY FINCH, representing self                                                                                                  
Nikiski, Alaska                                                                                                                 
POSITION STATEMENT: Stated support for SJR 5.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
JACK JOHNSON, representing self                                                                                                 
North Pole, Alaska                                                                                                              
POSITION STATEMENT: Stated support for SJR 5.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
FREDLAIN ELLIS, representing self                                                                                               
Wasilla, Alaska                                                                                                                 
POSITION STATEMENT: Stated support for SJR 5.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SUSAN JOHNSON, representing self                                                                                                
North Pole, Alaska                                                                                                              
POSITION STATEMENT: Stated support for SJR 5.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MATTHEW HELLER, representing self                                                                                               
Fairbanks, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Stated support for SJR 5.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MARK SESLER, representing self                                                                                                  
Soldotna, Alaska                                                                                                                
POSITION STATEMENT: Stated support for SJR 5.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SALLY JOHNSON, representing self                                                                                                
Palmer, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Stated support for SJR 5.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
DEBORAH HOLLAND, representing self                                                                                              
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Stated support for SJR 5                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
TANIA KITKA, representing self                                                                                                  
Kodiak, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Stated support for SJR 5.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
JOHN MOROPOULOS, representing self                                                                                              
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Stated support for SJR 5.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SANDRA ST. JOHN, representing self,                                                                                             
Sutton, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Stated support for SJR 5.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MELANIE GLATT, representing self                                                                                                
Palmer, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Stated support for SJR 5                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
LAWRENCE SALZMAN, representing self                                                                                             
Fairbanks, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Stated that he currently supports SJR 5                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
DENISE BOGUE-SKONIECZKI                                                                                                         
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Stated support for SJR 5.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SHERRY PARSONS, representing self                                                                                               
Wasilla, Alaska                                                                                                                 
POSITION STATEMENT: Stated support for SJR 5.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHERYL SHUPE, representing self                                                                                                 
Fairbanks, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SJR 5.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
KEN BROWN, representing self                                                                                                    
Soldotna, Alaska                                                                                                                
POSITION    STATEMENT:   Stated    support   for    SJR   5    to                                                             
constitutionalize the PFD.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
GREG PARSONS, representing self                                                                                                 
Wasilla, Alaska                                                                                                                 
POSITION STATEMENT: Stated support for SJR 5.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
ALBERT NINGEULOOK, representing self                                                                                            
Shishmaref, Alaska                                                                                                              
POSITION STATEMENT: Couldn't say whether he supports SJR 5, but                                                               
he is in favor of saving the PFD and using it wisely.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
KIM BERGEY, representing self                                                                                                   
Palmer, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Stated support for SJR 5                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
GEORGE PIERCE, representing self                                                                                                
Kasilof, Alaska                                                                                                                 
POSITION STATEMENT: Stated support for SJR 5.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
DEAN KASISCHKE, representing self                                                                                               
Seward, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Stated support for SJR 5.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
RODERICK PERRY, representing self                                                                                               
Chugiak, Alaska                                                                                                                 
POSITION STATEMENT: Stated support for SJR 5 to enshrine the PFD                                                              
in the constitution by a vote of Alaskans.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
RON GILLHAM, representing self                                                                                                  
Soldotna, Alaska                                                                                                                
POSITION STATEMENT: Stated support for SJR 5.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
DEBRA KIRK, representing self                                                                                                   
Kodiak, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Stated opposition to SJR 5                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
JANET FAURE, representing self                                                                                                  
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Stated opposition to SJR 5.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
WILLIAM WARREN, representing self                                                                                               
Nikiski, Alaska                                                                                                                 
POSITION STATEMENT: Stated support for SJR 5.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MARY FORBES, representing self                                                                                                  
Kodiak, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Stated opposition to SJR 5.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CAROL CARMAN, representing self                                                                                                 
Palmer, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Stated support for SJR 5                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
KACI GILLHAM, representing self and family                                                                                      
Sterling, Alaska                                                                                                                
POSITION STATEMENT: Stated support for SJR 5                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
NEVA MILLS, representing self                                                                                                   
Chatanika, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Stated support for SJR 5                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SIRELEI KAORI, representing self                                                                                                
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Stated support for SJR 5.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
JAMES SQUIRES, representing self                                                                                                
Gulkana, Alaska                                                                                                                 
POSITION STATEMENT: Stated support for SJR 5.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MARK GLATT, representing self                                                                                                   
Palmer, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Stated support for SJR 5.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
DONNA WILMOT, representing self and her family                                                                                  
Kasilof, Alaska                                                                                                                 
POSITION STATEMENT: Stated support for SJR 5 to enshrine the PFD                                                              
in the constitution.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
BRETT WILMOT, representing self                                                                                                 
Kasilof, Alaska                                                                                                                 
POSITION STATEMENT: Stated support for SJR 5 to enshrine the PFD                                                              
in the constitution.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
LARRY PANNELL, representing self and family                                                                                     
Soldotna, Alaska                                                                                                                
POSITION STATEMENT: Stated support for SJR 5.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
STACEY WRIGHT, representing self                                                                                                
Kenai, Alaska                                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT: Stated support for SJR 5                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
BILL MILKS, Assistant Attorney General                                                                                          
Civil Division                                                                                                                  
Labor and State Affairs Section                                                                                                 
Department of Law                                                                                                               
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT:  Provided  answers to  questions  that  were                                                             
raised  about SJR  4 during  the  first hearing  and delivered  a                                                               
sectional analysis for SJR 5.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:38:02 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  MIKE  SHOWER  called the  Senate  State  Affairs  Standing                                                             
Committee meeting  to order at 3:38  p.m. Present at the  call to                                                               
order  were  Senators  Coghill,  Kawasaki,  Reinbold,  and  Chair                                                               
Shower. Senator Micciche joined the committee soon thereafter.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
             SJR  4-CONST. AM: STATE TAX; INTIATIVE                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:38:42 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  SHOWER   announced  the  consideration  of   SENATE  JOINT                                                               
RESOLUTION  NO. 4,  Proposing amendments  to the  Constitution of                                                               
the  State  of  Alaska  prohibiting   the  establishment  of,  or                                                               
increase to,  a state tax without  the approval of the  voters of                                                               
the state; and relating to the initiative process.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
He advised  that the bill was  last heard on 3/27/19  when public                                                               
testimony  was  opened  and  closed.  Written  testimony  may  be                                                               
submitted to senate.state.affairs@akleg.gov  until 6:00 p.m. this                                                               
evening. He invited Mr. Milks to  the witness table to respond to                                                               
the questions that were raised during the first hearing.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:39:18 PM                                                                                                                    
BILL  MILKS, Assistant  Attorney General,  Civil Division,  Labor                                                               
and State  Affairs Section, Department  of Law, Juneau,  said the                                                               
first question  asked why  any new  state tax  or increase  in an                                                               
existing state  tax would  take effect  "in a  statewide election                                                               
held  more than  one hundred  twenty days  from enactment  of the                                                               
proposed law." He  explained that one hundred  twenty days aligns                                                               
with  the  initiative  provision  in  art  XI,  sec.  4,  of  the                                                               
Constitution of the State of Alaska.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:40:48 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR COGHILL related  that he asked for  the rationale because                                                               
he wondered  if it  was arbitrary.  He asked  if the  fiscal note                                                               
would be affected.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. MILKS said he didn't believe so.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  MILKS said  Senator Coghill  also  asked if  any changes  to                                                               
existing tax exemptions  would trigger a vote. The  answer is no,                                                               
changing  an existing  tax would  neither  create a  new tax  nor                                                               
change  a  tax   rate.  He  reminded  the   committee  that  this                                                               
legislation  is  patterned  after  the  Colorado  model  and  the                                                               
Colorado  Supreme Court  considered a  case about  exemptions and                                                               
held that changing a tax exemption would not trigger a vote.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:42:13 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR MICCICHE joined the committee.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR COGHILL suggested  Mr. Milks and the  committee look into                                                               
that a little further because  he believes it would be challenged                                                               
if changing an exemption increases  the tax. For example, "if you                                                               
remove an exemption and their tax  payment goes up, is that going                                                               
to be a rate increase?"                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MILKS  said he  appreciates  that  but  the intent  is  that                                                               
exemptions are not  subject to this legislation  and therefore do                                                               
not trigger a vote.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. MILKS  turned to Senator  Coghill's that asked  about special                                                               
assessments referred to  in art IV, sec. 11,  Constitution of the                                                               
State of Alaska. He explained  that those special assessments are                                                               
exceptions from  a debt prohibition.  The intent is that  kind of                                                               
special  assessment  is  not  covered  by  this  legislation  and                                                               
therefore would not trigger a vote.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR COGHILL suggested the next  committee of referral explore                                                               
that further and  get a better definition because  it talks about                                                               
state or  political subdivisions  and the pipeline,  for example,                                                               
has an assessment that's been litigated repeatedly.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:46:32 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR KAWASAKI read:  "an initiative can't be  used to dedicate                                                               
revenues, make or repeal appropriations".  He asked what the cure                                                               
is  for  that  because  it's  been used  quite  often  to  strike                                                               
initiatives from the ballot.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. MILKS  pointed out that  voters have the initiative  power on                                                               
taxes  but not  appropriations.  He explained  that  SJR 4  would                                                               
create an  automatic review  process by  the legislature  and the                                                               
voters of any  new [state] tax or change in  tax rate. The voters                                                               
already have the constitutional authority  to review a tax passed                                                               
by  the legislature  such as  the Senate  Bill 21  initiative and                                                               
vice versa through the referendum process, he said.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR KAWASAKI observed that subsection  (c) in Section 1 gives                                                               
the legislature the power to veto whatever an initiative did.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MILKS  agreed  and added  that  an  existing  constitutional                                                               
provision gives the  legislature the same authority,  but not for                                                               
two years.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  KAWASAKI commented  that  this  would establish  another                                                               
weird power dynamic between the people and legislature.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SHOWER emphasized that this  would be further vetted in the                                                               
next committee of referral.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR KAWASAKI asked  for an explanation of the  genesis of the                                                               
Colorado law, which is the model for SJR 4.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MILKS responded  that Colorado  adopted a  similar provision                                                               
called  the Tabor  Amendment. It  provides that  new state  taxes                                                               
must be reviewed by the voters.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:51:21 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR COGHILL  recalled that Tabor  was an initiative  to amend                                                               
the Constitution of the State of Colorado.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. MILKS said he believes that's correct.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  COGHILL asked  how  many articles  are  in the  Colorado                                                               
constitution.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. MILKS said he did not know.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR COGHILL  advised that the  Colorado constitution  is much                                                               
more  complex and  the Constitution  of the  State of  Alaska has                                                               
significant  barriers to  protect  the rights  of  the people  of                                                               
Alaska that  differ from the Colorado  constitution. He suggested                                                               
the  administration  look  at  the   interplay  between  the  two                                                               
constitutions   because  Colorado   provides  voters   much  more                                                               
prescriptive authority.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. MILKS said he'd look at  that but he ultimately believes that                                                               
the tax  restrictions are the  same and the Alaska  Supreme Court                                                               
would look  at that  and the  intent of  the legislature  as this                                                               
legislation goes through the process.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR COGHILL requested  the committee members who  are also on                                                               
the Judiciary Committee  ensure that the language is  as clear as                                                               
possible so the intent is not open to interpretation.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:55:01 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  REINBOLD asked  him  to clarify  his  comment about  the                                                               
barriers in the Alaska constitution  to protect the rights of the                                                               
people.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  COGHILL said  the barriers  he was  referring to  in the                                                               
Alaska  constitution   are  unique  among  all   the  states.  He                                                               
referenced  [Article  VIII]  that  treats fish,  game,  and  land                                                               
management  differently  than Colorado  or  any  other state.  He                                                               
explained  that   he  used  the   term  "barriers"   because  the                                                               
legislature is  barred from writing  laws that don't  respect the                                                               
rights of the people.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  KAWASAKI  reiterated  his  earlier  question  about  the                                                               
genesis  of   the  legislation.  "Is  this   something  that  the                                                               
Department of Law  boiled down from the state  constitution or is                                                               
this   something  that   was  boiled   down  from   the  Colorado                                                               
constitution to fit the state Constitution?"                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. MILKS replied the policy  comes from the Colorado legislation                                                               
that deals with  state tax but the legislation  was drafted based                                                               
on the Alaska  Constitution. For example, the  one hundred twenty                                                               
day  provision  is   based  on  the  timeframes   in  the  Alaska                                                               
constitution.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SHOWER  asked for  clarification that SJR  4 is  modeled on                                                               
the concept of  that provision in the  Colorado constitution, but                                                               
it is not an exact copy.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. MILK confirmed  that the concepts are the same  but SJR 4 was                                                               
drafted to fit the Alaska constitution.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:59:28 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR KAWASAKI noted  that in Colorado the  second iteration of                                                               
the Tabor Amendment dealt with  the contracting of state debt. He                                                               
asked if the Dunleavy Administration considered that as well.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MILKS replied,  "A tax  amendment  was the  Administration's                                                               
choice here, not  a wholesale following other  states approach to                                                               
all fiscal issues."                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR KAWASAKI asked  if there was consideration  given to also                                                               
limiting the state's ability to collect fees.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. MILKS  replied SJR 4  was drafted to  amend art. IX,  sec. 1,                                                               
which deals with taxes. It is not intended to include fees.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SHOWER cautioned  against asking the presenter  to give the                                                               
Governor's opinion.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR KAWASAKI asked if the  request for this proposal from the                                                               
Administration to  the Department  of Law  included a  request to                                                               
look at fees and state debt.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MILKS replied  the communications  between attorneys  at the                                                               
Department of Law and the Governor are confidential.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
4:02:28 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR KAWASAKI asked if any  special advisors were consulted to                                                               
discuss the  proposed constitutional  amendment and how  it would                                                               
match state law.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. MILKS  replied the Department  of Law advised  the Governor's                                                               
Office    and   drafted    a   constitutional    amendment.   The                                                               
Administration  made  the  policy  decisions. He  added,  "I'm  a                                                               
lawyer for the Administration."                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR KAWASAKI said he was trying  to find out if the nonprofit                                                               
organization, Americans  for Prosperity,  had any  influence over                                                               
the constitutional amendment proposed  in SJR 4. The organization                                                               
is based  in Colorado and  has advocated for the  Tabor Amendment                                                               
in other states.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MILKS replied  he worked  on SJR  4 as  a Department  of Law                                                               
attorney    and   he    believes   that    the   Administration's                                                               
representatives  have  explained  that  this   is  one  of  three                                                               
proposed  constitutional amendments  that reflect  the policy  of                                                               
the Administration.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SHOWER  said these questions  should go to the  Governor or                                                               
his representatives.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
4:04:38 PM                                                                                                                    
SUZANNE   CUNNINGHAM,  Legislative   Director,   Office  of   the                                                               
Governor,  Anchorage, stated  that  no  outside organization  was                                                               
involved in creating  or drafting this policy. "It  was a concept                                                               
he was interested in that he  was aware of and we started working                                                               
with  the Department  of Law  and how  to draft  a constitutional                                                               
amendment to the Alaska state constitution."                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  REINBOLD asked  Senator Kawasaki  his intent  for asking                                                               
the question.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SHOWER stopped the line of questioning.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
He solicited  a motion  for the  first of  the two  amendments he                                                               
wanted the committee to consider.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:06:17 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR COGHILL made  a motion to adopt Amendment  1, [work order                                                               
31-GS1070\A.1, Nauman, 3/28/19].                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
                          AMENDMENT 1                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
    OFFERED IN THE SENATE                  BY SENATOR SHOWER                                                                    
          TO:  SJR 4                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, line 13, following "effective":                                                                                    
          Insert "on the later of"                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, line 14, following "governor":                                                                                     
          Insert "or an effective date provided for by                                                                          
     concurrence of two-thirds of the membership of each                                                                        
     house"                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SHOWER  explained that both amendments  clarify language to                                                               
ensure the intent is clear. He  asked Mr. Milks to comment on the                                                               
process and what the clarification does.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:07:04 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.  MILKS explained  that Amendment  1  clarifies the  effective                                                               
date of  a law  enacted by  the legislature  and approved  by the                                                               
voters. It also  provides flexibility for the  legislature to set                                                               
a different effective date.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR KAWASAKI questioned the  reason for requiring concurrence                                                               
of two-thirds of the membership of each house.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MILKS replied  that aligns  with the  effective date  in the                                                               
Constitution of the State of Alaska.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
4:09:55 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  MICCICHE asked  if  the legislature  should  be able  to                                                               
extend the effective date of  ninety days after the certification                                                               
of the election  to accommodate situations where the  vote was on                                                               
an initiative and it took longer  than ninety days to execute the                                                               
tax.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. MILKS  said the  ninety day provision  is also  in subsection                                                               
(c) and it aligns with the way an initiative works now.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  MICCICHE clarified  that he  was asking  about extending                                                               
the ninety-day  window to enact  a very complicated tax  law that                                                               
the voters approved by initiative.  His understanding is it would                                                               
likely take longer  than ninety days to enact an  income tax or a                                                               
sales tax.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:12:12 PM                                                                                                                    
CORI   MILLS,  Assistant   Attorney   General,  Civil   Division,                                                               
Department of Law, Juneau, said  the proposed resolution could be                                                               
amended to  provide a  process to extend  that timeline,  but the                                                               
legislature could also  pass a bill to extend  the effective date                                                               
as it considers approval of an initiative enacted by the voters.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR MICCICHE asked if the same  would apply for a bill passed                                                               
by the  legislature. He clarified  that he was supportive  of the                                                               
amendment, he was just looking at how it would work both ways.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. MILLS  said the  difference is one  of timing.  Something the                                                               
legislature passes  is placed  on the  next statewide  ballot and                                                               
goes  into  effect  ninety  days after  that  if  it's  approved.                                                               
Anything the voters  approve in an election can't  be approved by                                                               
the legislature until the next session.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR MICCICHE expressed satisfaction with the answer.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:14:51 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  REINBOLD highlighted  that initiating  new or  increased                                                               
taxes is not an issue in her district.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  MICCICHE  clarified  that   the  intention  here  is  to                                                               
responsibly evaluate  all the potential  effects of  the proposed                                                               
law.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
4:15:34 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SHOWER removed his objection.  Finding no further objection                                                               
or discussion, he stated that Amendment 1 passes.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:16:10 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  COGHILL moved  Amendment 2,  [work order  31-GS1070\A.2,                                                               
Nauman, 3/28/19].                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
                          AMENDMENT 2                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
    OFFERED IN THE SENATE                 BY SENATOR SHOWER                                                                     
          TO:  SJR 4                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, line 7:                                                                                                            
          Delete "Any"                                                                                                          
          Insert "Notwithstanding Section 18 of Article II, a"                                                                  
          Delete "Sections 14 - 18"                                                                                             
          Insert "Sections 14 - 17"                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, line 10:                                                                                                           
          Delete "proposed"                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, line 11:                                                                                                           
          Delete "proposed"                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, line 15:                                                                                                           
          Delete "proposed"                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SHOWER  objected for  discussion  purposes  and asked  Mr.                                                               
Milks to discuss the clarification.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. MILKS  explained that Amendment  2 clarifies that any  law to                                                               
amend art. II, secs. 14-17  of the constitution is only effective                                                               
on a  vote of the people.  He described the amendment  as further                                                               
clarification  of a  contingency provision.  "The legislature  is                                                               
passing a  law, but  the law  is contingent on  a future  act and                                                               
that future act is the vote of the people."                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR MICCICHE  asked why it  was important to remove  the term                                                               
"proposed."                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. MILKS  replied notwithstanding  the effective date  clause, a                                                               
law enacted under art. II, secs  14 and 17, is no longer proposed                                                               
law. It  is a law with  the contingency provision, a  vote of the                                                               
people.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR MICCICHE asked, "Can a law become law without passage?"                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. MILKS  replied there  are contingency  provisions in  some of                                                               
the  bills the  legislature passes.  This further  clarifies that                                                               
this is a  two-part process. The legislature enacts a  law and it                                                               
is contingent it its effectiveness.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR COGHILL  directed attention  to art.  XII, sec.  11, that                                                               
deals  with law-making  powers. These  powers generally  refer to                                                               
the  legislature  but  it  also  refers  to  the  people  through                                                               
initiative. He  said it's interesting that  the legislature could                                                               
pass  a law  that couldn't  be  ratified and  it would  therefore                                                               
become  ineffective.  He  opined  that  it's  not  necessarily  a                                                               
proposed law, it's  a law that needs to be  ratified. He admitted                                                               
he was looking for a loophole but he didn't find one.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:20:51 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR   SHOWER  removed   his  objection.   Finding  no   further                                                               
discussion or objection, he stated that Amendment 2 passes.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SHOWER asked for final discussion on SJR 4, as amended.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:21:22 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR COGHILL  expressed concern about the  definition of "tax"                                                               
and the sliding scale within the  tax codes. He said he will look                                                               
for clarity  on this issue  as the legislation moves  forward. He                                                               
said  he'll  offer  the  motion   to  move  the  resolution  from                                                               
committee but he has reservations.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SHOWER suggested  he provide a list of  questions he'd like                                                               
to have vetted in the Judiciary Committee.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  MICCICHE   said  he,  too,   will  support   moving  the                                                               
resolution  along,  but  his  worry   is  that  his  conservative                                                               
district will be  giving up power to  less conservative districts                                                               
that  would  be  more  likely  to support  a  tax  they  view  as                                                               
necessary but his district does  not support. He opined that when                                                               
more control  is given to  the voters, detailed  discussions like                                                               
the one today may be lost in the process.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SHOWER found no further discussion and solicited a motion.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:24:31 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR COGHILL moved to report  SJR 4, work draft 31-GS1070|A as                                                               
amended,  from  committee  with  individual  recommendations  and                                                               
attached fiscal  note(s) and authorization for  Legislative Legal                                                               
Services  to  make  any   appropriate  technical  and  conforming                                                               
changes.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:24:57 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SHOWER found  no objection and CSSJR 4(STA)  moved from the                                                               
Senate State Affairs Standing Committee.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:25:00 PM                                                                                                                    
At ease                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
          SJR  5-CONST. AM.:PERMANENT FUND & DIVIDEND                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:27:46 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR   SHOWER  reconvened   the   meeting   and  announced   the                                                               
consideration  of  SENATE  JOINT   RESOLUTION  NO.  5,  Proposing                                                               
amendments to  the Constitution of  the State of  Alaska relating                                                               
to the Alaska permanent fund and the permanent fund dividend.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:28:30 PM                                                                                                                    
BRUCE TANGEMAN,  Commissioner, Department of  Revenue, Fairbanks,                                                               
reported that for over three  decades the permanent fund dividend                                                               
calculation and the amount of  the dividend was never questioned.                                                               
This because  an issue when  the dividend was politicized  and it                                                               
created mistrust for many Alaskans.  He explained that SJR 5 does                                                               
three  things.  First,  the  dividends  would  be  guaranteed  by                                                               
initiating  an automatic  transfer rather  than being  subject to                                                               
appropriation.  Second,  the PFD  could  not  be reduced  by  the                                                               
legislature  or a  governor's  veto. Third,  any  changes to  the                                                               
statutory  PFD  formula  would  require a  vote  of  the  people.                                                               
Finally, he said,  SJR 5 is just one part  of Governor Dunleavy's                                                               
fiscal plan  that seeks to  ensure that Alaskans are  included in                                                               
deciding the size and scope of their government.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:30:03 PM                                                                                                                    
BILL  MILKS, Assistant  Attorney General,  Civil Division,  Labor                                                               
and State  Affairs Section, Department of  Law, Juneau, delivered                                                               
the following sectional analysis for SJR 5.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Section 1:  This would  provide a  conforming amendment                                                                    
     to  the  existing  language in  order  to  authorize  a                                                                    
     portion  of  permanent  fund  income  to  be  used  for                                                                    
     dividends as set forth in Section 2.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Section   2:  This   section  would   create  two   new                                                                    
     subsections in the permanent fund amendment.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Subsection  (b) would  require that  a  portion of  the                                                                    
     permanent   fund    income   be   used,    without   an                                                                    
     appropriation,  solely   for  the  purpose   of  paying                                                                    
     permanent  fund  dividends  to state  residents.  Those                                                                    
     payments would occur according  to the dividend program                                                                    
     and formula currently set  forth in statute. Subsection                                                                    
     (b)  would also  allow  the legislature  to change  the                                                                    
     dividend  program,  including amount  and  eligibility,                                                                    
     subject  to the  approval of  the voters  in subsection                                                                    
     (c).                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Subsection  (c) would  require that  any law  passed by                                                                    
     the legislature  to amend  the permanent  fund dividend                                                                    
     program,  including  the  amount  and  the  eligibility                                                                    
     requirements, would  not take effect unless  the voters                                                                    
     approved  the  proposed  law   at  the  next  statewide                                                                    
     election.  If approved  by the  voters,  it would  take                                                                    
     effect 90 days after certification of the election.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Section  3: This  transition  provision specifies  that                                                                    
     the dividend program in place  on January 1, 2019 would                                                                    
     remain in  place until the  legislature and  the voters                                                                    
     approved a change to the program.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Section  4:   This  section  would  require   that  the                                                                    
     constitutional  amendment  be  placed  on  the  general                                                                    
     election ballot in 2020.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:33:19 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SHOWER reminded everyone that SJR  5 will also be vetted in                                                               
both the  judiciary and finance  committees. This  committee will                                                               
address the policies but because  some members will only hear the                                                               
bill  in  this  committee,  he'll  allow  more  latitude  in  the                                                               
questions.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  REINBOLD  said she  didn't  realize  initially that  the                                                               
voters would determine who is and  is not eligible for a PFD. She                                                               
asked  if  the  voters  will be  making  policy  decisions  about                                                               
military   families,   prisoners,  restitution,   hold   harmless                                                               
clauses, and garnishments.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MILKS answered  yes; the  voters will  make decisions  about                                                               
eligibility and the amount of the dividend.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  REINBOLD  asked  if  the  voters  will  be  involved  in                                                               
decisions about garnishing a dividend for child support.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. MILKS  replied SJR 5 would  not change the existing  law that                                                               
provides for that so garnishment procedures would continue.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR REINBOLD  commented that there's  conflicting information                                                               
because eligibility is  also in existing law  and that's changing                                                               
whereas garnishing is not changing.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. MILKS said the intent  is that the existing eligibility rules                                                               
will continue.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR REINBOLD asked if the voters  would weigh in on the hold-                                                               
harmless clause.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. MILKS asked for clarification of the question.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR REINBOLD  explained that the  state will pay  the federal                                                               
government  about $17  million  [this year]  because  of the  PFD                                                               
hold-harmless statutes that allow  low income Alaskans to receive                                                               
their PFD  and also continue  to receive their  welfare benefits.                                                               
She  highlighted   that  this  annual  payment   to  the  federal                                                               
government results in a lower PFD for all Alaskans.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. MILKS  said the  existing statutory  eligibility requirements                                                               
will  remain. He  added that  this is  the first  hearing and  he                                                               
would  review all  the questions  on  that subject  to ensure  he                                                               
fully understood what she asked.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:39:32 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  COGHILL  observed  that  this  puts  the  concept  of  a                                                               
fundamental right  of the dividend  and the fundamental  right of                                                               
the legislature  to act in  tension by sweeping in  four Articles                                                               
of legislative  power pertaining  to things like  effective dates                                                               
and veto  powers. He said  it's something to think  about because                                                               
this appears to touch a  live wire of changing our constitutional                                                               
structure for  an individual fundamental  right. He  said another                                                               
wrinkle  is that  this would  assume a  constitutional right  for                                                               
some  statutory provisions  outside of  a ratification,  but it's                                                               
not  quite   an  initiative  and   it's  not   quite  legislative                                                               
authority.  He  said he  might  start  by  asking  if this  is  a                                                               
revision to constitutionalize existing statutory language.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MILKS  responded  that  there is  always  a  question  about                                                               
whether a proposed change to  the constitution is an amendment or                                                               
a revision. SJR  5 was drafted to be  a constitutional amendment.                                                               
He cited a recent court case  where the Alaska Supreme Court said                                                               
that absent another constitutional  amendment, the Permanent Fund                                                               
Dividend  Program must  compete  for  annual legislative  funding                                                               
just like  other state  programs. He said  the Department  of Law                                                               
sees the issues  that Senator Coghill identified,  but their view                                                               
is that  this is  not so sweeping  as to be  a revision.  It's an                                                               
effort  to  provide a  program  that  has an  automatic  dividend                                                               
payment.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR COGHILL said  he understands that, but  he struggles with                                                               
changing the "legislature  act of law" for a  single issue, which                                                               
is the  dividend. He  stated his intent  to review  the documents                                                               
related   to   the  founding   of   the   constitution  and   the                                                               
conversations surrounding  the statements that all  power resides                                                               
with  the  people   and  all  lawmaking  power   resides  in  the                                                               
legislature. SJR  5 says those  powers are  tied so instead  of a                                                               
check and balance  it's become a way to  addressing a fundamental                                                               
right.  He said  that's  a fundamental  change  that he'll  think                                                               
about very carefully.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:49:01 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  SHOWER asked  Mr. Milks  to explain  the legal  difference                                                               
between an  amendment to the  constitution and a revision  of the                                                               
constitution.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. MILKS  said the basic  difference is  that an amendment  is a                                                               
small  change  and  a  revision is  a  more  sweeping  structural                                                               
change.  However,  the  Alaska  Supreme  Court  has  said  it  is                                                               
possible  for an  amendment to  change  the basic  constitutional                                                               
rules to such an extent that  it should be considered a revision.                                                               
A  revision   of  the  constitution  requires   a  constitutional                                                               
convention. He  said that in  Bess vs. Ulmer, the  Alaska Supreme                                                               
Court looked  at the California  constitutional framework  on the                                                               
amendment versus revision  piece and came up with  an Alaska test                                                               
that  looks  at the  balance  between  the quantitative  and  the                                                               
qualitative  changes. He  acknowledged the  limitation of  having                                                               
just one Alaska case.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SHOWER  asked  him  to   clarify  whether  this  is  about                                                               
enshrining an individual  right to a dividend or  the program but                                                               
not necessarily the amount of the dividend in the constitution.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. MILKS said SJR 5 seeks to  respond to the issue that came out                                                               
of having a  statutory dividend program that  many people thought                                                               
would   occur   automatically   but  is   actually   subject   to                                                               
appropriation and is  therefore also subject to  governor veto in                                                               
full or  part. He said he  believes that, as written,  SJR 5 does                                                               
not give anybody a lifetime fundamental  right to a dividend of a                                                               
certain dollar amount, but it does  say that there is going to be                                                               
a  dividend program  and some  of  the permanent  fund income  is                                                               
going to provide for a dividend.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SHOWER asked what would happen  if this becomes part of the                                                               
constitution and there  isn't enough income to pay  a dividend in                                                               
5-10 years.  He specifically  asked if  the legislature  would be                                                               
forced to initiate a tax to pay the dividend.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. MILKS responded  that SJR 5 only talks about  using a portion                                                               
of the  income of the  Alaska Permanent  Fund for a  dividend. It                                                               
does not talk about any other income stream.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SHOWER  said he'd need  to think  about this a  little more                                                               
because  this sets  the legislature  up to  be at  odds with  the                                                               
people.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:59:17 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR REINBOLD stated  for the record that she  did not support                                                               
either the  taking of the  dividend or the  POMV. She went  on to                                                               
say there are two schools of  thought on this issue, the first of                                                               
which  is  to tax  all  resources  and  put  the revenue  in  the                                                               
permanent fund so  there will be a long-term  permanent fund. The                                                               
second aspect  is to  tax just oil.  However, with  that approach                                                               
she,  too, questions  what will  happen if  oil revenue  drops to                                                               
nothing  and there's  no  money going  into  the permanent  fund.                                                               
"Where do we go with that?" she asked.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MILKS said  the proposed  constitutional amendment  provides                                                               
that  dividends will  only be  paid  if there  is permanent  fund                                                               
income.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SHOWER commented that this  brings up interesting things to                                                               
think about.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  MICCICHE said  the reality  is that  there is  no relief                                                               
valve if  the oil and  gas infrastructure fails, and  that should                                                               
be part of the discussion.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
5:03:57 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SHOWER recessed the meeting until 6:00 p.m.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
^Public Testimony on sjr 5                                                                                                      
6:05:40 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SHOWER  reconvened the meeting and  opened public testimony                                                               
on SJR 5.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
6:06:26 PM                                                                                                                    
LYNETTE CLARK, representing self, Fox,  stated support for SJR 5.                                                               
She said this  constitutional amendment is needed  to restore the                                                               
peoples'  trust   in  government.  The   previous  administration                                                               
destroyed that trust  when the governor cut the  dividend and the                                                               
next year  the legislature reduced  the dividend.  Enshrining the                                                               
dividend in the constitution will help to restore that trust.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
6:09:01 PM                                                                                                                    
MIKE COONS,  President, Alaska Chapter  of Association  of Mature                                                               
American Citizens(AMAC),  Palmer, stated full support  for SJR 5.                                                               
He  said  the  Governor's  clear intent  in  this  constitutional                                                               
amendment  is for  the people  to  control their  money. He  said                                                               
legislators serve  at the consent  of the governed and  last year                                                               
they took away the peoples'  money without their consent. Through                                                               
SJR  5  and  the other  proposed  constitutional  amendments  the                                                               
people are taking  back their government. He  echoed the previous                                                               
speaker about restoring the peoples' trust.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
6:11:03 PM                                                                                                                    
JEB STUART,  representing self, Deadhorse, said  the people voted                                                               
for  Governor  Dunleavy because  he  said  he would  restore  the                                                               
dividends  and cut  spending and  he'd like  to see  that happen.                                                               
Responding to a question from the  Chair, he said he supports SJR                                                               
5.                                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
6:11:48 PM                                                                                                                    
At ease                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
6:13:45 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SHOWER reconvened the meeting.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
6:13:54 PM                                                                                                                    
JIM  CLARK,  representing self,  Fairbanks,  stated  that he  was                                                               
standing up  to say that  the government  needs to learn  to live                                                               
within its means.  Governor Dunleavy is trying to  draw the line.                                                               
Responding to a question from the  Chair, he said he supports SJR                                                               
5.                                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
6:14:22 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR MICCICHE joined the committee.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
6:15:47 PM                                                                                                                    
KAREN PERRY, representing self,  Chugiak, said she struggles with                                                               
SJR  5  because  everyone  knows   that  legislators  ignore  the                                                               
statutes  and she  wonders if  there should  be a  constitutional                                                               
amendment  that would  require legislators  to go  to prison  for                                                               
that. She  opined that legislators need  to go on the  record and                                                               
let their  constituents know where  they stand on this  and other                                                               
issues. She also  commented on her lack of faith  in the election                                                               
process. Responding  to a question  from the Chair, she  said she                                                               
couldn't decide whether or not she supports SJR 5.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
6:17:42 PM                                                                                                                    
GARY MCDONALD,  representing self, Anchorage, stated  support for                                                               
SJR 5. He singled out Senator Reinbold for special recognition.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
6:18:20 PM                                                                                                                    
WILLIAM TOPEL,  representing self, Anchorage, stated  support for                                                               
SJR 5.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
6:18:36 PM                                                                                                                    
KYLER DIAS,  representing self, Wasilla, testified  in support of                                                               
SJR 5. He described the  way people are approaching the permanent                                                               
fund as crazy nonsense. He said  he supports SJR 5 if it protects                                                               
the principal of  the PFD. He spoke in support  of cutting waste,                                                               
reducing the size  of government, and capping the  PFD for people                                                               
who  make  more   than  $100,000  a  year.   He  also  questioned                                                               
continuing to  put money into the  PFD because it's in  the stock                                                               
market and is  self-sustaining. He favors guaranteeing  a PFD for                                                               
generations to come.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
6:20:54 PM                                                                                                                    
VIKKI  JO  KENNEDY,  representing   self,  Kodiak,  testified  in                                                               
support  of SJR  5. She  drew an  analogy between  SJR 5  and the                                                               
Distant  Early Warning  (DEW) line.  They were  both designed  to                                                               
protect Alaskans, she said.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
6:23:01 PM                                                                                                                    
RANDY FINCH,  representing self, Nikiski, stated  support for SJR                                                               
5. He said the people should  vote on this; the burden should not                                                               
be on the legislature.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
6:23:52 PM                                                                                                                    
JACK JOHNSON,  representing self, North Pole,  stated support for                                                               
SJR 5. He is a senior on a  fixed income and the dividend is more                                                               
than just a little helpful.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
6:24:51 PM                                                                                                                    
FREDLAIN ELLIS,  representing self,  Wasilla, stated  support for                                                               
SJR 5.  She wants to  vote on this issue.  "It means too  much to                                                               
too many of us whether we're seniors or not," she said.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
6:25:46 PM                                                                                                                    
SUSAN JOHNSON, representing self,  North Pole, stated support for                                                               
SJR 5.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
6:26:23 PM                                                                                                                    
MATTHEW HELLER, representing self,  Fairbanks, stated support for                                                               
SJR 5. "That's it; I support it," he said.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
6:27:22 PM                                                                                                                    
MARK SESLER, representing self,  Soldotna, stated support for SJR                                                               
5. "Put it into the constitution," he said.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
6:27:48 PM                                                                                                                    
SALLY JOHNSON, representing  self, Palmer, stated, "Put  SJR 5 in                                                               
the constitution as it was  [written] by Jay Hammond." She shared                                                               
that  she is  on  a  very limited  income  and  she believes  the                                                               
legislature needs to tighten its belt.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
6:28:53 PM                                                                                                                    
DEBORAH  HOLLAND,  representing  self, Anchorage,  said  she  was                                                               
calling  in support  of  SJR 5.  She  said she  wants  it in  the                                                               
constitution  so  legislators  can't   get  their  hands  on  the                                                               
people's money.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
6:29:42 PM                                                                                                                    
TANIA KITKA,  representing self,  Kodiak, stated support  for SJR                                                               
5.                                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
6:30:06 PM                                                                                                                    
At ease                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
6:32:33 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SHOWER reconvened                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
6:32:47 PM                                                                                                                    
JOHN  MOROPOULOS, representing  self,  Anchorage, stated  support                                                               
for SJR  5. He believes  that expenditures of the  permanent fund                                                               
should be in the hands of Alaskans.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
6:33:23 PM                                                                                                                    
At ease                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
6:36:43 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SHOWER reconvened the meeting.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
6:36:49 PM                                                                                                                    
SANDRA ST.  JOHN, representing self,  Sutton, stated  support for                                                               
SJR 5 and having the PFD added to the constitution.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
6:37:13 PM                                                                                                                    
MELANIE GLATT, representing self,  Palmer, stated support for SJR                                                               
5 and  expressed disappointment  that the legislature  has failed                                                               
to deliver a gas line. That  could have solved many problems, she                                                               
said.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
6:37:50 PM                                                                                                                    
LAWRENCE SALZMAN,  representing self,  Fairbanks, stated  that he                                                               
currently  supports SJR  5.  He  believes it  is  a beginning  to                                                               
protect the permanent  fund and he believes the  $12 billion from                                                               
the  Constitutional Budget  Reserve should  be repaid.  His views                                                               
are  similar to  a majority  of Alaskans  who voted  for Governor                                                               
Dunleavy.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
6:38:52 PM                                                                                                                    
At ease                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
6:41:47 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SHOWER reconvened the meeting.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
6:41:56 PM                                                                                                                    
DENISE  BOGUE-SKONIECZKI,  representing  self  and  her  husband,                                                               
Anchorage, said  leave our  PFDs alone and  return what  has been                                                               
taken. She  opined that  legislators should not  be paid  for any                                                               
special  sessions  and  schools  can  cut  management  positions.                                                               
Responding  to a  question from  Senator Micciche,  she said  she                                                               
supports SJR 5.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
6:43:42 PM                                                                                                                    
SHERRY PARSONS, representing self,  Wasilla, said the people need                                                               
a say in how the permanent  fund is distributed. She believes the                                                               
government should  stay out  of it because  the money  belongs to                                                               
the people  who will  spend it wisely.  Responding to  a question                                                               
from the Chair, she said she supports SJR 5.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
6:45:22 PM                                                                                                                    
At ease                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
6:49:04 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SHOWER reconvened the meeting.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
6:49:09 PM                                                                                                                    
CHERYL  SHUPE, representing  self, Fairbanks,  said she  believes                                                               
that the  PFD should be  constitutionally protected  and restored                                                               
to its original form. The state should live within its means.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
6:49:46 PM                                                                                                                    
KEN BROWN, representing self, Soldotna,  stated support for SJR 5                                                               
to constitutionalize  the PFD.  The state  needs to  downsize and                                                               
keep money in the private sector, he said.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
6:50:20 PM                                                                                                                    
GREG PARSONS, representing self,  Wasilla, stated support for SJR                                                               
5. The legislature needs to figure  out how to pay for government                                                               
without using the dividend, he said.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
6:51:12 PM                                                                                                                    
At ease                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
7:00:15 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SHOWER reconvened the meeting.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
7:00:19 PM                                                                                                                    
ALBERT NINGEULOOK,  representing self, Shishmaref, said  he hopes                                                               
the Governor  keeps the PFD  intact and does  not use it  for the                                                               
state  budget.  The  people  in rural  areas  need  their  money.                                                               
Responding to a question from the  Chair, he said he couldn't say                                                               
whether he supports SJR  5, but he is in favor  of saving the PFD                                                               
and using it wisely.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
7:01:45 PM                                                                                                                    
KIM BERGEY,  representing self,  Palmer, said  she is  calling to                                                               
state support for  SJR 5 to enshrine the PFD  in the constitution                                                               
and not  use it for government  spending. She said, "I  know that                                                               
we the people can use it diligently and wisely for our needs."                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
7:02:21 PM                                                                                                                    
At ease                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
7:07:01 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SHOWER reconvened the meeting.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
7:07:09 PM                                                                                                                    
GEORGE  PIERCE, representing  self, Kasilof,  stated support  for                                                               
SJR 5.  The PFD should be  enshrined in the constitution  and not                                                               
be used by government.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
7:08:03 PM                                                                                                                    
DEAN KASISCHKE,  representing self, Seward, said  he supports SJR                                                               
5, full  constitutional protection of  the PFD, and no  change to                                                               
the PFD without a public vote.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
7:08:39 PM                                                                                                                    
At ease                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
7:11:24 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SHOWER reconvened the meeting.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
7:11:29 PM                                                                                                                    
RODERICK PERRY,  representing self,  Chugiak, stated  support for                                                               
SJR  5 to  enshrine the  PFD  in the  constitution by  a vote  of                                                               
Alaskans.  "Stop  ignoring  the  rule   of  law  and  follow  the                                                               
statutes," he said.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
7:12:04 PM                                                                                                                    
RON GILLHAM, representing self,  Soldotna, stated support for SJR                                                               
5. He believes  the permanent fund should be  in the constitution                                                               
so his kids and grandkids can have it for the future.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SHOWER  advised that Senator  Coghill and  Senator Micciche                                                               
were attending other meetings.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
7:13:05 PM                                                                                                                    
At ease                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
7:17:36 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SHOWER reconvened the meeting.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
7:17:40 PM                                                                                                                    
DEBRA KIRK,  representing self, Kodiak, stated  opposition to SJR                                                               
5 because she  is pleased with the infrastructure  that has built                                                               
up around the state the last 40-50  years and she'd hate it to go                                                               
backwards.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
7:18:14 PM                                                                                                                    
JANET FAURE, representing self,  Juneau, stated opposition to SJR                                                               
5.   She   and   her   husband  appreciate   the   services   and                                                               
infrastructure the state has provided for its citizens.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
7:18:55 PM                                                                                                                    
At ease                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
7:25:15 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SHOWER reconvened the meeting.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
7:25:19 PM                                                                                                                    
WILLIAM WARREN,  representing self,  Nikiski, stated  support for                                                               
SJR 5. He said  he is amazed at the "hard and  fast grab" for the                                                               
permanent  fund  dividend  and  he believes  putting  it  in  the                                                               
constitution is the  only way to protect it.  He highlighted that                                                               
the  Alaska LNG  pipeline will  eventually be  built and  provide                                                               
revenue to the  state but in the meantime the  dividend should be                                                               
enshrined.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
7:27:24 PM                                                                                                                    
At ease                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
7:29:39 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SHOWER reconvened the meeting.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
7:29:52 PM                                                                                                                    
MARY FORBES, representing self,  Kodiak, stated opposition to SJR                                                               
5. She disagreed with the  previous caller and related her belief                                                               
that the permanent fund dividend is  not a God-given right to the                                                               
citizens of  Alaska. Rather, the  permanent fund was  intended to                                                               
be partially  used to fund government  once the oil ran  out. She                                                               
said  her research  indicates that  was Jay  Hammond's intention.                                                               
She doesn't want to see  Alaskans' quality of life to deteriorate                                                               
to  the point  that they  leave the  state and  Governor Dunleavy                                                               
opens  the state  to the  highest  bidder to  "rape and  pillage"                                                               
Alaska's resources. Responding to a  question from the Chair, she                                                               
confirmed that she opposes SJR 5.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
7:30:57 PM                                                                                                                    
CAROL CARMAN,  representing self, Palmer, stated  support for SJR                                                               
5  and  complete disagreement with the last  caller. The research                                                               
she's  done  on  the  permanent  fund  and  the  dividend  itself                                                               
demonstrates that the  dividend was intended to  give the royalty                                                               
share  to  Alaskans  for  their [loss  of]  mineral  rights.  She                                                               
explained that once  Alaska became a state the people  as a whole                                                               
assumed  ownership of  the minerals  rights and  received royalty                                                               
payments in  lieu of individual  ownership rights. Her  belief is                                                               
that it is  necessary to enshrine the PFD in  the constitution to                                                               
keep government from taking what is the people's portion.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
7:32:22 PM                                                                                                                    
At ease                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
7:34:47 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SHOWER reconvened the meeting.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
7:34:54 PM                                                                                                                    
KACI  GILLHAM, representing  self  and  family, Sterling,  stated                                                               
support for SJR 5 to enshrine the PFD in the constitution.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
7:35:34 PM                                                                                                                    
NEVA MILLS, representing self, Chatanika,  stated support for SJR                                                               
5 to  protect the  permanent fund. She  highlighted the  waste in                                                               
the budget  and opined that  the dividend should never  have been                                                               
stolen from the  people. She said, "it's been  stated in research                                                               
papers" that  about 7,000  jobs would  be eliminated  if Governor                                                               
Dunleavy's  budget   is  adopted.   Her  understanding   is  that                                                               
departments are  receiving money  for vacant positions.  She said                                                               
she  knows that  the university  wastes several  hundred thousand                                                               
dollars at  the end of  the fiscal year  just to qualify  for the                                                               
same amount  of money the next  fiscal year. That needs  to stop.                                                               
She emphasized  that parents, not  teachers, need to step  up and                                                               
raise their children  so teachers have time to  teach. She warned                                                               
that if the permanent fund  [dividend] is cut, over 9,000 private                                                               
sector jobs will  be lost and low income seniors  such as herself                                                               
may be forced to leave Alaska.  She said she prays every day that                                                               
legislators  will  have the  wisdom  and  knowledge to  fix  this                                                               
problem.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR KAWASAKI asked for the source  of the report or study she                                                               
mentioned at the beginning of her testimony.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MILLS  said  she  didn't  recall but  she  would  email  the                                                               
information to the committee.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR   SHOWER   asked   her   to   send   the   information   to                                                               
senate.state.affairs@akleg.gov.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
7:41:34 PM                                                                                                                    
SIRELEI KAORI,  representing self, Anchorage, stated  support for                                                               
SJR 5.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
7:41:44 PM                                                                                                                    
JAMES  SQUIRES, representing  self, Gulkana,  stated support  for                                                               
SJR 5.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
7:41:56 PM                                                                                                                    
At ease                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
7:46:54 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SHOWER reconvened the meeting.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
7:46:58 PM                                                                                                                    
MARK GLATT, representing self, Palmer,  stated support for SJR 5.                                                               
He   opined  that   the  dividend   should  be   constitutionally                                                               
protected.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
7:47:40 PM                                                                                                                    
At ease                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
7:51:26 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SHOWER reconvened the meeting.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
7:51:30 PM                                                                                                                    
DONNA WILMOT,  representing self and her  family, Kasilof, stated                                                               
support for SJR 5 to enshrine the PFD in the constitution.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
7:52:01 PM                                                                                                                    
BRETT WILMOT, representing self,  Kasilof, stated support for SJR                                                               
5 to enshrine the PFD in the constitution.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
7:52:26 PM                                                                                                                    
At ease                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
7:56:08 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SHOWER reconvened the meeting.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
7:56:11 PM                                                                                                                    
LARRY  PANNELL, representing  self and  family, Soldotna,  stated                                                               
support for SJR  5. He believes the PFD needs  to be enshrined in                                                               
the constitution to protect it now and for future generations.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
7:56:51 PM                                                                                                                    
At ease                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
7:58:45 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SHOWER reconvened the meeting.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
7:58:50 PM                                                                                                                    
STACEY WRIGHT,  representing self, Kenai, stated  support for SJR                                                               
5 to enshrine the PFD in the constitution.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
7:59:12 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR SHOWER  closed public testimony  on SJR 5 and  advised that                                                               
written      testimony      could       be      submitted      to                                                               
senate.state.affairs@akleg.gov.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
[SJR 5 was held in committee.]                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
7:59:58 PM                                                                                                                    
There being  no further  business to  come before  the committee,                                                               
Chair  Shower   adjourned  the  Senate  State   Affairs  Standing                                                               
Committee meeting at 7:59 pm.                                                                                                   

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
SSTA OFFICIAL AGENDA MEMO.pdf SSTA 3/28/2019 3:30:00 PM
agenda
SJR 4 Transmittal Letter.pdf SJUD 4/15/2019 1:30:00 PM
SJUD 4/22/2019 6:00:00 PM
SSTA 3/26/2019 1:30:00 PM
SSTA 3/27/2019 6:00:00 PM
SSTA 3/28/2019 3:30:00 PM
SJR 4
SJR 4 version A.pdf SJUD 4/22/2019 6:00:00 PM
SSTA 3/26/2019 1:30:00 PM
SSTA 3/27/2019 6:00:00 PM
SSTA 3/28/2019 3:30:00 PM
SJR 4
SJR 4 Sectional Analysis.pdf SJUD 4/22/2019 6:00:00 PM
SSTA 3/26/2019 1:30:00 PM
SSTA 3/27/2019 6:00:00 PM
SSTA 3/28/2019 3:30:00 PM
SJR 4
SJR 4 Fiscal Note GOV-DOE.pdf SJUD 4/15/2019 1:30:00 PM
SSTA 3/27/2019 6:00:00 PM
SSTA 3/28/2019 3:30:00 PM
SJR 4
SJR 4 - Amednment #1.pdf SSTA 3/28/2019 3:30:00 PM
SJR 4
SJR 4 - Amendment #2.pdf SSTA 3/28/2019 3:30:00 PM
SJR 4
SJR 5 Transmittal Letter.pdf SJUD 4/8/2019 1:30:00 PM
SSTA 3/28/2019 3:30:00 PM
SJR 5
SJR 5 version A.pdf SSTA 3/28/2019 3:30:00 PM
SJR 5
SJR 5 Sectional Analysis.pdf SSTA 3/28/2019 3:30:00 PM
SJR 5
SJR 5 Fiscal Note GOV-DOE.pdf SSTA 3/28/2019 3:30:00 PM
SJR 5
Senate State Affairs - SJR 4 Written Testimony uploaded (04-08-19).pdf SSTA 3/28/2019 3:30:00 PM
SJR 4