Legislature(2001 - 2002)

05/04/2002 01:35 PM STA

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                    
                 SENATE STATE AFFAIRS COMMITTEE                                                                               
                           May 4, 2002                                                                                          
                            1:35 p.m.                                                                                           
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
Senator Gene Therriault, Chair                                                                                                  
Senator Randy Phillips, Vice Chair                                                                                              
Senator Ben Stevens                                                                                                             
Senator Bettye Davis                                                                                                            
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
Senator Rick Halford                                                                                                            
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
HOUSE BILL NO. 285                                                                                                              
"An Act adding a second verse to the official Alaska state song."                                                               
     HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                             
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 509(STA)                                                                                                  
"An Act relating to Alaska children's trust registration plates;                                                                
and providing for an effective date."                                                                                           
     MOVED CSHB 509(STA) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                       
SENATE BILL NO. 363                                                                                                             
"An   Act   relating   to   electioneering    communications   and                                                              
communications intended  to influence  the outcome of  an election                                                              
and to  campaign misconduct  in the  second degree; and  providing                                                              
for an effective date."                                                                                                         
     MOVED CSSB 363(STA) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                       
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
HB 285 - No previous action to record.                                                                                          
HB 509 - See State Affairs minutes dated 4/30/02.                                                                               
SB 363 - See State Affairs minutes dated 4/23/02 and 4/25/02.                                                                   
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
Mr. Bill Lawrence                                                                                                               
Aide to Representative Carl Morgan                                                                                              
Alaska State Capitol                                                                                                            
Juneau, AK  99801-1182                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT: Introduced HB 285.                                                                                        
Ms. Constance Davis                                                                                                             
5405 Thane Rd.                                                                                                                  
Juneau, AK 99801                                                                                                                
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 285.                                                                          
Ms. Constance Monroe                                                                                                            
120 W. 9 St.                                                                                                                    
Juneau, AK 99801                                                                                                                
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 285.                                                                          
Ms. Harriet Roberts                                                                                                             
2305 Franklin St. #604                                                                                                          
Juneau, AK 99801                                                                                                                
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 285.                                                                          
Mr. J. Allan MacKinnon                                                                                                          
P.O. Box 32760                                                                                                                  
Juneau, AK 99803-2760                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 285.                                                                          
Mr. Joe Balash                                                                                                                  
Aide to the Senate State Affairs Committee                                                                                      
Alaska State Capitol                                                                                                            
Juneau, AK  99801-1182                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT:  Introduced SB 363.                                                                                       
Ms. Brooke Miles                                                                                                                
Executive Director                                                                                                              
Alaska Public Offices Commission                                                                                                
Department of Administration                                                                                                    
2221 E. Northern Lights                                                                                                         
Anchorage, AK 99508-4149                                                                                                        
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on SB 363.                                                                                     
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
TAPE 02-28, SIDE A                                                                                                            
1:35 p.m.                                                                                                                       
CHAIRMAN  GENE   THERRIAULT  called   the  Senate  State   Affairs                                                            
Committee meeting  to order  at 1:35 p.m.   Present were  Senators                                                              
Phillips, Stevens and Chairman Therriault.   Senator Davis arrived                                                              
at 1:40 p.m.                                                                                                                    
The first order of business before the committee was HB 285.                                                                    
           HB 285-SECOND VERSE OF ALASKA'S STATE SONG                                                                       
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT said  it was not  his intent  to move  HB 285                                                              
that day but he would like to hear public testimony.                                                                            
MR. BILL LAWRENCE, Aide to Representative  Carl Morgan, sponsor of                                                              
HB 285,  said it was  the appropriate  time to officially  add the                                                              
second verse of the Alaska State  Song to state law because it was                                                              
the 75   anniversary of the Alaska  State Flag.  He  said it would                                                              
be  a long  overdue  honor  to the  late  Carol Beery  Davis,  who                                                              
authored  the second  verse and  gifted  it to  the University  of                                                              
Alaska  in  1987.   The  verse  commemorated  Bennie  Benson,  who                                                              
designed the Alaska State Flag, and  recognized the natural beauty                                                              
and splendor  of Alaska.  He said  the second verse had  been sung                                                              
throughout Alaska for many years.  He said:                                                                                     
     Officially  putting  the  second   verse  in  the  state                                                                   
     statute will not  solve all of our problems,  but it's a                                                                   
     small step  toward creating peace and harmony  among all                                                                   
     the people in the state.  It's  basically the right time                                                                   
     to do the right thing.                                                                                                     
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT asked  if there  were any  questions for  Mr.                                                              
Lawrence.  There were none.                                                                                                     
MS.  CONSTANCE  DAVIS, daughter  of  Carol  Beery Davis  read  the                                                              
following statement:                                                                                                            
     I would like  to give you a little summary  of my family                                                                   
     history  on   this  eventful  occasion.     My  paternal                                                                   
     grandfather arrived in Juneau  early in 1891 for a short                                                                   
     stay,   working  for   the  Nowell   Mining  Co.  as   a                                                                   
     bookkeeper.    With  paints,   brushes  and  canvas,  my                                                                   
     grandmother  landed at  the  Juneau docks  a few  months                                                                   
     later.   She  planned  to paint  Alaskan  scenery for  a                                                                   
     month or two.   The following year they were  married in                                                                   
     the Log Cabin church.  Both of them came from England.                                                                     
     My mother came to Juneau in  1920 to play for the silent                                                                   
     movies at  the Palace Theater, a three-month,  temporary                                                                   
     job that  lasted for seven years.   By that  time, Marie                                                                   
     Drake was  a good friend, the  contest to choose  a flag                                                                   
     for Alaska was  underway, and my father was  a member of                                                                   
     the Final Awards  Committee to choose the  flag.  Mother                                                                   
     took notes of the events at  that time.  Later she wrote                                                                   
     that once  the design  was chosen,  Marie felt that  the                                                                   
     school   children  of   Alaska   would  understand   the                                                                   
     historical  event better  if they had  words to  recite,                                                                   
     something  like  those in  her  head.   The  Territorial                                                                   
     Commissioner of Education gave  his approval, and so the                                                                   
     first step towards a song was born.                                                                                        
     When mother was approached to  add a second verse to the                                                                   
     state  song, she believed  that it  was important  to do                                                                   
     so,  and that  her  old  friend, Marie,  would  approve.                                                                   
     Using  the themes  of unity, history,  progress and  the                                                                   
     state's  natural  beauty,  she  carefully  composed  the                                                                   
     verse with  her enduring  love for Alaska.   It  was her                                                                   
     last gift.  She was 95 years old.                                                                                          
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT asked  if there  were any  questions for  Ms.                                                              
Davis.  There were none.                                                                                                        
MS.  CONSTANCE MONROE  said  she  was an  adult  educator who  was                                                              
retired  from the  Department  of  Education.   When  she came  to                                                              
Alaska  in 1971,  she  felt  the state  song  was limited  in  its                                                              
recognition  of   only  gold  miners   and  not   other  Alaskans,                                                              
especially the first Alaskans.  She  said she discovered that this                                                              
was  not oversight,  it  was a  historical  situation because  the                                                              
first verse written  by Marie Drake was initially  a poem to honor                                                              
the flag and was not expected to be the state song.                                                                             
She  said  she  was  a  good  friend   with  Representative  Alvin                                                              
Osterback's  wife Marie because  of their  work on the  Governor's                                                              
alcohol  and   drug  commission.     She   said  she  spoke   with                                                              
Representative  and  Mrs.  Osterback and  Senator  Frank  Ferguson                                                              
about the possibility of having a  second verse for the state song                                                              
and opening it up for a statewide  contest.  She said they thought                                                              
about it  and discussed it with  their colleagues and came  to the                                                              
conclusion  that  it probably  wouldn't  be advantageous  for  the                                                              
State to hold a contest.  However,  if there was a gift of someone                                                              
providing a  second verse, they could  look at it and  see whether                                                              
or not it was appropriate.                                                                                                      
She lost her  job in 1985 because  of the economic downturn.   She                                                              
said she called  Carol Beery Davis and said she  would probably be                                                              
moving and  was very sad  that they never  got a second  verse for                                                              
the Alaska State Song.  The next  morning she received a call from                                                              
Carol Beery  Davis asking her  to come to  look at a draft  of the                                                              
second verse  that was  going to be  a gift to  the State.   Carol                                                              
Beery  Davis  asked  if  she  would   take  it  to  Representative                                                              
Osterback  and Senator  Ferguson and  see if they  thought  it was                                                              
appropriate.  She said they loved it.                                                                                           
MS. MONROE  said the second  verse had  been a struggle  since the                                                              
1970s.  It passed the House of Representatives  in 1986 but failed                                                              
in the  Senate.   She said  she hoped  the committee's  leadership                                                              
would provide support  for the second verse.  She  said it honored                                                              
everyone in  Alaska including the  first Alaskans,  minorities and                                                              
people who came from everywhere to live in the state.                                                                           
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT  asked  why  they  felt  a  contest  was  not                                                              
appropriate at the time.                                                                                                        
MS. MONROE said  they were concerned that there would  be too much                                                              
disagreement over what  the second verse was supposed  to be.  She                                                              
said  they  couldn't  come  up  with   guidelines  that  were  not                                                              
insulting and it would have been  too difficult for a committee to                                                              
choose  something.    She  said they  didn't  have  the  financial                                                              
backing.   She noted that  when the gift  was received,  they went                                                              
through the proper procedures with  the University in Fairbanks to                                                              
have the verse held in trust.                                                                                                   
She said  the second verse  had been sung  across the state.   She                                                              
said because she  was working with community education  and school                                                              
districts she  was able to request  that the second verse  be sung                                                              
at graduations.   She said when  Senator Ferguson was  honored for                                                              
his work with  vocational education, the second verse  was sung at                                                              
the ceremony.                                                                                                                   
She said  Alvin and Marie Osterback,  who have always  been strong                                                              
supporters,  are still  waiting to  see the second  verse come  to                                                              
fruition.   She said she thought  the whole native caucus  felt it                                                              
was time as well.                                                                                                               
She said  they should have  held a contest,  but they  didn't have                                                              
the leadership  at the  time to do  so.   They couldn't  use money                                                              
from the Department of Education.   She noted that there was not a                                                              
contest held for  the first verse and they wanted  some continuity                                                              
in how the verse was chosen.                                                                                                    
SENATOR  PHILLIPS  said he  went  to  the  museum and  saw  Bennie                                                              
Benson's submission  for the Alaska  State Flag contest.   He said                                                              
Bennie had submitted  a written piece along with  the design and a                                                              
lot of the phrases in the song came  from that.  He said the first                                                              
verse was  a carryover and the  submission of the first  verse was                                                              
part of the submission of the flag.                                                                                             
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT  said he thought  Senator Phillips  was trying                                                              
to say that  although the first verse  was not part of  a contest,                                                              
the  wording  was  taken  from the  concepts  in  Bennie  Benson's                                                              
written  comments  on his  flag  submission.   Therefore,  it  had                                                              
stemmed from the  contest.  He said he asked a  question about the                                                              
Alaska State Song in his questionnaire.   In response, a number of                                                              
people said  they had some ideas.   He said it was  also suggested                                                              
to him that a well-known music instructor  in Fairbanks might have                                                              
an excellent idea.  He said the way  the first verse links in with                                                              
the contest for  the design of the flag, people  are interested in                                                              
having  an opportunity  to suggest  wording if  there is  to be  a                                                              
second verse.   He  said that if  people had  known the  State was                                                              
looking for  a gift of a second  verse, there probably  would have                                                              
been a lot of suggestions.                                                                                                      
MS. MONROE  said that was  probably true.   She asked if  he would                                                              
have liked to judge that.                                                                                                       
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT  said he understood that would  be a difficult                                                              
MS. MONROE  said she strongly  supported Carol Beery  Davis' verse                                                              
as the  second verse of  the Alaska State  Song.  She said  it was                                                              
beautiful  that a  pioneer of  Alaska wrote  it as  a gift to  the                                                              
first Alaskans,  minorities and  all the  residents of  the state.                                                              
She said  she thought  the words were  appropriate and  was hoping                                                              
that it would be passed out of committee.                                                                                       
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT  asked if there were any  additional questions                                                              
for Ms. Monroe.  There were none.                                                                                               
MS. HARRIET  ROBERTS said she was  retired from the  Department of                                                              
Health and Social Services.  She  said she had lived in Alaska for                                                              
20 years.   She said when  she came to  Alaska she had  the Alaska                                                              
State  Song card  in her  purse.   She  said the  ferry trip  took                                                              
several days  and her husband  couldn't sleep.   He asked  for the                                                              
card because he  wanted to read it.  She said  he couldn't believe                                                              
they were actually in Alaska.  He  said it was so beautiful it was                                                              
like  heaven.   She  said,  "When you  sing  this song,  all  this                                                              
flashes in  your mind."   She said when  the second verse  came to                                                              
the Legislature, Camp #2 of the Alaska  Native Brotherhood and the                                                              
Alaska Native  Sisterhood passed  a resolution  in support  of the                                                              
second verse.   She said she  couldn't speak for the  other camps,                                                              
but she  was sure  they supported  it as well.   She said  Dorothy                                                              
Wallace had also come forward in support of the verse.                                                                          
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT  asked if  she  was representing  the  Alaska                                                              
Native Brotherhood and the Alaska Native Sisterhood Camp #2.                                                                    
MS. ROBERTS said  their grand president Delores Cadiente  was on a                                                              
trip  and their  local  president  Alberta  Aspen wasn't  able  to                                                              
attend the meeting so she was testifying for them.                                                                              
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT asked  if there  were any  questions for  Ms.                                                              
Roberts.  There were none.                                                                                                      
MR.  J.  ALLAN  MACKINNON  said he  was  a  lifelong  Alaskan  and                                                              
resident of Juneau.   He wanted to speak in support  of the second                                                              
verse and felt it should have been adopted years ago.                                                                           
He said  he was  one of the  founders and  director of  the Juneau                                                              
Oratorio Choir and  was supportive of the Alaska  Youth Choir.  He                                                              
said  the musical  director of  the Alaska  Youth Choir,  Missouri                                                              
Smythe, could  not attend the hearing.   He said the  Alaska Youth                                                              
Choir incorporated the second verse  into their programming at all                                                              
their presentations.  He traveled  with the group to Brooklyn, New                                                              
York  and they  performed the  second verse  there.   He said  the                                                              
Juneau Oratorio  Choir was probably  one of the first  choruses to                                                              
sing both verses during one governor's inauguration ceremony.                                                                   
He said  Carol Beery Davis  was very much  a friend to  the native                                                              
community.    She was  authorized  to  translate the  native  oral                                                              
tradition  of songs  and other pieces  onto paper,  many of  which                                                              
were preserved in museums and the State Library.                                                                                
He said he  spent 10 or 12  years learning piano from  Carol Beery                                                              
Davis.   He remembered  her talking about  Marie Drake  and Elinor                                                              
Dusenbury.   He said the three  were contemporaries and  very well                                                              
known and  well thought  of in their  writings and poetry.   Marie                                                              
Drake took  certain elements  of Bennie  Benson's wording  and put                                                              
them into a poem  that was of the proper length  and meter.  Carol                                                              
Beery Davis  was a  contemporary  of Marie Drake's  and also  used                                                              
some of  Bennie Benson's wording,  creating a verse of  the proper                                                              
length and meter.                                                                                                               
He said there  were certain times when contests  were appropriate,                                                              
but this was not one of them.  He  said naming a state ferry, town                                                              
sites  or other  things  might  be  appropriate contests  for  the                                                              
youth.   He said his  teenaged son wrote  poetry but he  would not                                                              
want to have to consider his writing in a contest setting.                                                                      
He urged  the committee to  adopt the second  verse as it  was and                                                              
make it  an official part  of the statutes.   He said it  would be                                                              
taking the writings of two contemporary  individuals who were very                                                              
well thought of  out of historical context if they  were to reopen                                                              
the issue of who would write the second verse.                                                                                  
2:00 p.m.                                                                                                                       
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT asked  if there  were any  questions for  Mr.                                                              
MacKinnon.  There  were none.  He asked if there  was anybody else                                                              
who wished to testify on HB 285.   There was nobody.  He announced                                                              
that the  bill would  probably come  back up  for final  action on                                                              
Tuesday, May 7, 2002.                                                                                                           
HB 285 was held in committee.                                                                                                   
The next order of business before the committee was HB 509.                                                                     
          HB 509-ALASKA CHILDREN'S TRUST LICENSE PLATES                                                                     
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT  said  there was  a  hearing  on HB  509  the                                                              
previous week.  He said he spoke  with Senator Davis regarding the                                                              
bill because  she had  not been able  to attend  the meeting.   He                                                              
noted they  had stopped short of a  final vote.  He said  if there                                                              
were  not  any   amendments  from  committee  members,   he  would                                                              
entertain a motion on HB 509.                                                                                                   
SENATOR DAVIS moved  HB 509 out of committee with  attached fiscal                                                              
note and individual recommendations.                                                                                            
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT  noted there was a slight  increase in revenue                                                              
on the fiscal note.                                                                                                             
There being no  objection, HB 509 was moved out  of committee with                                                              
attached fiscal note and individual recommendations.                                                                            
The final order of business before the committee was SB 363.                                                                    
               SB 363-CAMPAIGN FINANCE PROVISIONS                                                                           
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT noted there was  a new proposed CS, version L.                                                              
MR.  JOE BALASH,  Aide  to  the Senate  State  Affairs  Committee,                                                              
outlined the following changes in the CS:                                                                                       
   · The former Section 1 regarding the "paid for by" statement                                                                 
     was removed.                                                                                                               
   · Testimony from Ms. Brooke Miles of the Alaska Public Offices                                                               
     Commission  (APOC) suggested that  the 15-5 reporting  burden                                                              
     on contributors might be unnecessary  so Sec. 9 repealed that                                                              
     requirement.  Sections 1, 2,  3, 4, and 5 of the CS conformed                                                              
     to that by removing "contribution  and" from contribution and                                                              
     expense expenditure reporting requirements.                                                                                
   · It was decided that defining communications that could and                                                                 
     could not be regulated in the  definitions section and making                                                              
     them  part   of  the  definition  of  an   expenditure  would                                                              
     accomplish the  intent of SB 363.  If something  were defined                                                              
     as an expenditure, it would  be subject to all the disclosure                                                              
     requirements  and restrictions  would be  put on where  money                                                              
     could  be  raised.    Money   could  not  be  raised  from  a                                                              
     corporation or  labor union and no more than  10% of it could                                                              
     be raised outside  of the state.  Depending  upon the type of                                                              
     organization there were limitations  on the amount that could                                                              
     be  raised from  individuals.   To  this  end, the  language,                                                              
     "includes  an  express communication  and  an  electioneering                                                              
     communication,    but   does    not   include   and    issues                                                              
     communication" was added in lines 17-19 in Sec. 6.                                                                         
   · Sec. 7 defined a communication.  This was not intended to be                                                               
     an exhaustive  list of  items that  might be a  communication                                                              
     but  identified the  kind of things  that were  traditionally                                                              
     seen in campaigns.                                                                                                         
        o Paragraph (13) excluded communications that cost $500                                                                 
          or  less  to  comply  with   the  Supreme  Court's  1995                                                              
          MacIntire  decision.    In that  case  a woman  felt  so                                                              
          strongly  about a  local school  bond proposal  that she                                                              
          printed a  flyer and distributed  it.  She was  found to                                                              
          be  in  violation  of  Ohio  statutes.    The  exception                                                              
          provided protection to keep that from happening.                                                                      
        o Paragraph (14) defined an electioneering communication                                                                
          as   a  communication  that   "occurs  within   30  days                                                              
          preceding  a primary election  or a municipal  election,                                                              
          or  within  60  days  preceding   a  general  election,"                                                              
          "directly  or  indirectly  identifies a  candidate"  and                                                              
          "addresses  an  issue   of  national,  state,  or  local                                                              
          political importance  and attributes a position  on that                                                              
          issue to the candidate  identified."  This came from the                                                              
          Buckley v.  Valeo decision, which said  express advocacy                                                              
          could  be  regulated but  issue  advocacy  could not  be                                                              
          regulated.   Finding  a line  between the  two had  been                                                              
          very  difficult.   Congress recently  passed the  Shays-                                                              
          Meehan version of the McCain-Feingold  legislation.  The                                                              
          parts  of the  definition  regarding  the timeframe  and                                                              
          identifying  a  candidate  came from  that  legislation.                                                              
          The   other   aspect   of   the   definition   regarding                                                              
          attributing  a position  to  a candidate  was a  further                                                              
          step  toward  trying  to  define advocacy  that  can  be                                                              
        o Paragraph (15) defined an express communication as "a                                                                 
          communication  that,  when read  as  a  whole, and  with                                                              
          limited reference to external  events, is susceptible of                                                              
          no other reasonable interpretation but as an                                                                          
          exhortation to vote for or against a specific                                                                         
          candidate."  This came from the Furgatch decision.                                                                    
   · Sec. 8 changed the crime of campaign misconduct in the 2                                                                   
     degree to conform to the changes in SB 363.                                                                                
   · Sec. 9 repealed AS 15.13.080, which was the 15-5 reporting                                                                 
   · Sec. 10 provided for an immediate effective date.                                                                          
SENATOR  PHILLIPS  wanted  to  make  it  clear  that  the  section                                                              
regarding the  "paid for by" statements  had been removed  from SB
MR. BALASH said it had been.                                                                                                    
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT  said the  courts  wanted  a bright  line  so                                                              
citizens would know  when they crossed the line and  were doing an                                                              
activity that  required disclosure  or had limitations  on funding                                                              
sources.  The  courts said if the  citizens had no way  of knowing                                                              
when  they crossed  the line,  it had  a chilling  effect on  free                                                              
speech  because they  might not  express opinions  that might  get                                                              
them into trouble.  He said a clear  line was drawn in SB 363.  He                                                              
said the  Buckley v.  Valeo decision  listed some  words that  had                                                              
been taken  as a complete  list.  He  said with the  definition of                                                              
express  communication  in  SB 363,  those  magic  words  wouldn't                                                              
necessarily need to be used for a communication to qualify.                                                                     
MR. BALASH said that was correct.                                                                                               
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT said that went  back to the Furgatch decision,                                                              
which  said it  was nonsensical  to use  a list  of words  because                                                              
anybody with a thesaurus could circumvent it.                                                                                   
MR. BALASH said that was correct.                                                                                               
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT said  a communication  such as,  "We want  to                                                              
develop  industry  in Alaska,  Senator  Gene Therriault  has  been                                                              
striving  to create jobs  and we  just wanted  you to know  that,"                                                              
would qualify  as an electioneering  communication even  though it                                                              
didn't  say to  vote for  or against  the candidate.   Because  it                                                              
identified  an issue  of importance,  identified  a candidate  and                                                              
attributed a position to that candidate  and was being done around                                                              
an election it would be an electioneering  communication.  He said                                                              
SB  363 tried  to draw  a line  that  indicated to  a citizen  the                                                              
criteria under which  you were trying to influence  the outcome of                                                              
an  election.   The  courts  said that  when  you were  trying  to                                                              
influence the outcome  of an election, the government  had a right                                                              
to  limit the  influence individuals  or  out-of-state sources  of                                                              
funds could exert on elections.   He said SB 363 combined a number                                                              
of  court cases  and  the McCain-Feingold  legislation  to try  to                                                              
define when the intent of issue advocacy  is to affect the outcome                                                              
of an  election.   He asked  Mr. Balash  if he  wished to  discuss                                                              
anything else.                                                                                                                  
MR.  BALASH  said  the standard  of  intending  to  influence  the                                                              
outcome of an  election was used throughout AS 15.13  and tried to                                                              
describe the  things that  were done in  the course of  a campaign                                                              
and  the disclosure  of those  items.   The  4   Circuit Court  of                                                              
Appeals in  Perry v.  Bartlett decided  that a similar  definition                                                              
used in North  Carolina was too vague and not  specific enough for                                                              
the  public to  know when  they were  required  to disclose  their                                                              
publications.  Because  this wasn't a 9  Circuit  Court of Appeals                                                              
or a U.S. Supreme  Court decision, it didn't necessarily  apply in                                                              
Alaska.  However, it should be looked  at to find out exactly what                                                              
standard was used in deciding the case.                                                                                         
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT asked if there  were any further questions for                                                              
Mr. Balash.  There were none.                                                                                                   
MS. BROOKE MILES,  Executive Director of APOC,  said she applauded                                                              
the committee for their courage in  defining express communication                                                              
and issues communication.  She said  APOC staff really appreciated                                                              
a bright  line being  drawn.   She said  she suspected the  courts                                                              
would decide  the definitions eventually.   She wanted  to discuss                                                              
Section 1.  She said she did not  have a problem with removing the                                                              
contributor reporting  requirements, but  she did find  issue with                                                              
the language.  She said it would  probably be better to delete all                                                              
the language in  this section after the word "commission"  on page                                                              
1, line  7.  She said  the rest of  the language in  (d)(1)(A) and                                                              
(B)  would cause  confusion.   She  said independent  expenditures                                                              
made of behalf  of a candidate or ballot question  were reportable                                                              
in any amount so  the $500 limit would cause confusion.   She said                                                              
a strict reading  might compel a group that talked  to a candidate                                                              
and wanted  to buy  a communication  to think  they would  have to                                                              
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT said  he wanted  to  make sure  that she  was                                                              
suggesting to  delete all of the  language in Section 1  after the                                                              
word "commission" on page 1, line 7.                                                                                            
MS. MILES said that was correct.                                                                                                
SENATOR PHILLIPS asked if that would end on page 2 at line 9.                                                                   
MS. MILES said that was correct.                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT asked  if this  deletion  would change  other                                                              
sections of the statute.                                                                                                        
MS.  MILES said  it would  be necessary  to  retain paragraph  (2)                                                              
because  it  talked  about  being   exempted  from  the  reporting                                                              
requirement because of the MacIntire decision.                                                                                  
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT  asked if she  was talking about  the language                                                              
in Sec. 2.                                                                                                                      
MS. MILES  said the language starting  on page 2, line  4 provides                                                              
for  the MacIntire  exemption for  small expenditures.   She  said                                                              
that should not be deleted.                                                                                                     
SENATOR PHILLIPS  said he wanted  to make sure he  understood what                                                              
she  was suggesting.   He  said it  would  be necessary  to put  a                                                              
period on page 1, line 7, after the  word "commission," and delete                                                              
everything thereafter on page 1 and  the first three lines on page                                                              
2, but leave paragraph (2), which would be renumbered to (1).                                                                   
MS. MILES said  it could also be incorporated  but his description                                                              
was correct.                                                                                                                    
SENATOR PHILLIPS moved a conceptual  Amendment #1 putting a period                                                              
after  the  word   "commission"  on  page  1,   line  7,  deleting                                                              
everything  after that  on page  1  and lines  1-3 on  page 2  and                                                              
leaving paragraph (2).                                                                                                          
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT said  he wasn't  so sure  the drafters  would                                                              
want to put a period after "commission."                                                                                        
SENATOR PHILLIPS said that was where the section would end.                                                                     
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT  said they would probably want to  put a comma                                                              
and  go on  to  paragraph  (2).   He  said as  long  as  it was  a                                                              
conceptual amendment, the drafters could work with it.                                                                          
TAPE 02-28, SIDE B                                                                                                            
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT   asked  if   there  was  any   objection  to                                                              
conceptual Amendment #1.                                                                                                        
SENATOR PHILLIPS asked Ms. Miles if that was all.                                                                               
MS. MILES  said it was.   She said she  was happy to  see Internet                                                              
communications  included.    She  said APOC  had  been  discussing                                                              
Internet communications more and  more over the last few years and                                                              
they considered  them to  be subject  to the law  but it  would be                                                              
helpful to have it codified.                                                                                                    
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT  said the Internet was becoming  a bigger tool                                                              
for good and bad.   He wanted to make sure that  dropping the 15-5                                                              
requirement was not  going to create problems.  He  also wanted to                                                              
be sure  the 15-5s would be  needless paperwork after  the changes                                                              
in SB 363.                                                                                                                      
MS. MILES said  APOC staff believed there was  probably still some                                                              
value in  the 15-5s for  contributions given to  political parties                                                              
or  ballot  proposition  groups,   the  two  groups  to  which  an                                                              
individual can  contribute more than  $500.  She said  $5000 could                                                              
be  contributed  to a  political  party  in  a calendar  year  and                                                              
contributions to  ballot proposition  groups were unlimited.   She                                                              
said  the  15-5s  provided  meaningful  information  in  the  time                                                              
periods  when  other information  was  not  available.   She  said                                                              
without  the  15-5s  the first  information  on  contributions  to                                                              
ballot proposition  groups would  not be  available until  30 days                                                              
before the general  election.  She said that would  also hold true                                                              
to some extent with political parties.                                                                                          
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT asked if Ms.  Miles only saw that problem with                                                              
regards to contributions to ballot proposition groups.                                                                          
MS. MILES said yes.                                                                                                             
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT asked if that could be easily retained.                                                                     
MS. MILES  said the 15-5  language could  be written to  require a                                                              
contributor  report for contributions  of more  than $500  made to                                                              
ballot  proposition groups.   She  said  ballot propositions  were                                                              
often very controversial  and if the 15-5 report  was required for                                                              
contributions to  ballot proposition groups, APOC  could have some                                                              
information available for the public.                                                                                           
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT said  Senator  Phillips told  him they  could                                                              
work on that in the Senate Rules Committee.                                                                                     
SENATOR PHILLIPS said SB 363 was a Senate Rules Committee bill.                                                                 
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT  said he wanted to deal with  the 15-5 reports                                                              
and remove the  requirements that didn't make sense.   But if they                                                              
were a  source of  valuable information,  he didn't  want to  lose                                                              
that.   He said  Ms. Miles  had said  it was  nice to have  bright                                                              
MS. MILES  said bright lines make  it easier to  conduct training,                                                              
review the courts, and identify advertisements.                                                                                 
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT said the courts like bright lines as well.                                                                  
MS. MILES said it would probably  go before the courts eventually.                                                              
She said  the definitions seemed  very similar to the  new federal                                                              
statutes, especially the timelines  separating electioneering from                                                              
issue advocacy.                                                                                                                 
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT  said they were from the  federal legislation.                                                              
SB   363  added   some   further  definition   to   electioneering                                                              
communications  by adding that  they attributed  a position  on an                                                              
issue to an identified candidate.                                                                                               
MS. MILES  said for the  most part, the  changes would  be enacted                                                              
before advocacy became a big issue.                                                                                             
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT  said communications that would  be defined as                                                              
electioneering communications  would be allowed at  any other time                                                              
except for right before an election.                                                                                            
MS. MILES  said if  they did  it right  before the election,  they                                                              
would be  required to  file a report  and the  money spent  on the                                                              
communication would have to be funding authorized by the State.                                                                 
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT  said that  was  because  at that  point  the                                                              
communication  would be  trying  to influence  the  outcome of  an                                                              
election and  the State  would be able  to require disclosure  and                                                              
limitations on outside sources of money.                                                                                        
MS. MILES said that was correct.   She said an outside corporation                                                              
would not  be allowed to  engage in that  kind of activity  within                                                              
close proximity to an election.                                                                                                 
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT asked about the fiscal note.                                                                                
MS. MILES said it would be revised.                                                                                             
MR. BALASH said he had a fiscal note  for $30,000 to distribute to                                                              
the committee.                                                                                                                  
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT  asked if that  fiscal note would  change with                                                              
the new CS.                                                                                                                     
MS. MILES hoped  it would.  She  said it would still  be necessary                                                              
to conduct a training program so  everybody understood the changes                                                              
in the law but the other problems  she had discussed earlier would                                                              
no longer exist.                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT read the following from the fiscal note:                                                                    
     This   bill   creates   additional    requirements   for                                                                   
     candidates  and  groups  when   identifying  their  paid                                                                   
     political  communications.   It  represents  significant                                                                   
     administrative  difficulties in that  it also creates  a                                                                   
     new  kind of  political  communication  (electioneering)                                                                   
     which  is  defined  and  enforced  by  the  Division  of                                                                   
     Elections.   The funding request is for  training, paper                                                                   
     and printing, and enforcement.                                                                                             
MS.  MILES said  she  didn't see  the same  enforcement  concerns.                                                              
Initially, she was concerned with  the requirement that production                                                              
costs be included  in the "paid for by" statement.   She said most                                                              
of  the inquiries  APOC  received  were about  the  "paid for  by"                                                              
statement and  they spent  a lot of time  working with  groups and                                                              
candidates to get them corrected.   She said a lot of people might                                                              
have made  mistakes with production  costs because they  might not                                                              
have been sure of  them and given an estimate.   She said with the                                                              
new CS that would  no longer be a concern.  She  still felt it was                                                              
necessary to have funds to let everybody know about the changes.                                                                
SENATOR DAVIS asked if the CS had been adopted.                                                                                 
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT said  it had  not.   He noted  that they  had                                                              
discussed conceptual Amendment #1  without the CS before them.  He                                                              
said they were working on an unofficial  document.  He asked for a                                                              
motion on the L version.                                                                                                        
SENATOR PHILLIPS  moved the  L version of  SB 363 with  conceptual                                                              
Amendment  #1  out of  committee  with  attached fiscal  note  and                                                              
individual recommendations.                                                                                                     
There being  no objection,  CSSB 363(STA)  moved out of  committee                                                              
with attached fiscal note and individual recommendations.                                                                       
There being no  further business before the committee,  the Senate                                                              
State Affairs Committee meeting was adjourned at 2:35 p.m.                                                                      

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