Legislature(2001 - 2002)

04/23/2002 03:45 PM STA

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                    
                 SENATE STATE AFFAIRS COMMITTEE                                                                               
                         April 23, 2002                                                                                         
                            3:45 p.m.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Gene Therriault, Chair                                                                                                  
Senator Randy Phillips, Vice Chair                                                                                              
Senator Ben Stevens                                                                                                             
Senator Bettye Davis                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Senator Rick Halford                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                              
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                              
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 331(STA)                                                                                                  
"An  Act relating  to  appointment of  persons  to positions  that                                                              
require  confirmation by  the legislature;  and  providing for  an                                                              
effective date."                                                                                                              
     MOVED CSHB 331(STA) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 344(STA)                                                                                                  
"An  Act  increasing  fees  for   driver's  licenses,  instruction                                                              
permits, and identification cards;  and providing for an effective                                                              
date."                                                                                                                          
     MOVED CSHB 334(STA) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 361                                                                                                             
"An  Act relating  to  coordination  of the  application,  review,                                                              
decision, and appeal process for  certain project permits, leases,                                                              
plans,   notices,  disposals,   licenses,   preferences,   grants,                                                              
reservations,  approvals,  and  sales;   relating  to  the  Alaska                                                              
Coastal Policy Council and the Alaska  Coastal Management Program;                                                              
relocating  certain  functions of  the  office of  management  and                                                              
budget to a statutorily created division  of project assistance in                                                              
the   Office  of   the  Governor;   repealing  the   Environmental                                                              
Procedures  Coordination  Act;  and  providing  for  an  effective                                                              
date."                                                                                                                          
     HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 363                                                                                                             
"An   Act   relating   to   electioneering    communications   and                                                              
communications intended  to influence  the outcome of  an election                                                              
and to  campaign misconduct  in the  second degree; and  providing                                                              
for an effective date."                                                                                                         
     HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
HB 331 - See State Affairs minutes dated 4/2/02.                                                                                
HB 344 - No previous action to record.                                                                                          
SB 361 - No previous action to record.                                                                                          
SB 363 - No previous action to record.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Linda Sylvester                                                                                                                 
Aide to Representative Pete Kott                                                                                                
Alaska State Capitol, Room 204                                                                                                  
Juneau, AK  99801-1182                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT:  Introduced HB 331 and HB 344                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Mary Marshburn                                                                                                                  
Director                                                                                                                        
Department of Administration                                                                                                    
PO Box 110200                                                                                                                   
Juneau, AK  99811-0200                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 344                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Marty Rutherford                                                                                                                
Deputy Commissioner                                                                                                             
Department of Natural Resources                                                                                                 
400 Willoughby Ave.                                                                                                             
Juneau, AK  99801-1724                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on SB 361                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Patrick Galvin                                                                                                                  
Director                                                                                                                        
Division of Governmental Coordination                                                                                           
P.O. Box 110030                                                                                                                 
Juneau, AK 99811-0030                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on SB 361                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Kurt Fredriksson                                                                                                                
Deputy Commissioner                                                                                                             
Department of Environmental Conservation                                                                                        
410 Willoughby Suite 303                                                                                                        
Juneau, AK 99801-1795                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on SB 361                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Joe Balash                                                                                                                      
Staff to Senate State Affairs Committee                                                                                         
Alaska State Capitol, Room 121                                                                                                  
Juneau, AK  99801-1182                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT: Explained provisions of SB 363                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Dana Olson                                                                                                                      
Box 5438                                                                                                                        
Wasilla, AK 99654                                                                                                             
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on SB 361                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Bonnie Jack                                                                                                                     
          TH                                                                                                                    
1063 W. 20 Ave                                                                                                                  
Anchorage 99503-1714                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on SB 363                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Brooke Miles                                                                                                                    
Director                                                                                                                        
Alaska Public Offices Commission                                                                                                
2221 E. Northern Lights Rm 128                                                                                                  
Anchorage, AK 99508-4149                                                                                                        
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on SB 363                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 02-24, SIDE A                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  GENE   THERRIAULT  called   the  Senate  State   Affairs                                                            
Committee  meeting to  order at  3:45 p.m.  Present were  Senators                                                              
Davis, Phillips, Stevens and Chairman Therriault.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
           HB 331-PRESENTMENT OF GOVERNOR'S APPOINTEES                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT took up HB 331.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS. LINDA SYLVESTER,  Aide to Representative Pete  Kott, said that                                                              
the statute  was drafted  in a convoluted  way. She explained  the                                                              
color-coded  statute in  the  packet before  the  Committee.   The                                                              
yellow highlighted  information was general language  dealing with                                                              
initial  presentments made  by the  Governor  to the  Legislature.                                                              
The  blue   highlighted  information   deals  with   the  specific                                                              
situation  of  presentments  that  follow later  in  the  session,                                                              
typically  when the Legislature  fails to  confirm a  presentment.                                                              
The pink highlighted  information is the general  discussion about                                                              
how presentments  and  confirmations are  to be  handled.   HB 331                                                              
seeks to clarify  and clean up ambiguities in the  statute.  It is                                                              
unclear whether the Legislature can  confirm an appointment during                                                              
a special session.   Based on opinions from the  legislative legal                                                              
department and other  procedures from the statute,  it is believed                                                              
that  the intent  of  the statute  is  that all  presentments  and                                                              
confirmations  occur  during the  regular  session.   HB  331  has                                                              
cleaned  that up  and  changed some  timeframes  that  are in  the                                                              
current statute that put the confirmations  outside of the regular                                                              
session.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT  asked  if  there  were  any  questions  from                                                              
committee members.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BEN STEVENS asked if the  blue highlighted section was the                                                              
only one being changed.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. SYLVESTER  answered yes.  The  bill takes out  the timeframes,                                                              
substitutes "five  days" with "immediately" and  removes a twenty-                                                              
day provision saying the Legislature  has to confirm a presentment                                                              
within 20 days of receipt from the Governor.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEVENS said  that in AS 39.05.080(1)(B) the  words "on or                                                              
before" were being added and asked when the boards expired.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT said they expire all throughout the year.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS.  SYLVESTER explained  that  when  the process  was  set up  at                                                              
statehood, each appointee was put  on a schedule.  Since then, the                                                              
timeline  was determined  by when  vacancies occurred.   The  only                                                              
timeline  that  is in  the  statute  pertains to  presentment  and                                                              
confirmation.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEVENS said the bill stated,  "persons to be appointed to                                                              
fill a position  or membership, the  term of which will  expire on                                                              
or before March 1 during that session of the legislature."                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS.  SYLVESTER  said the  statute  encourages the  Legislature  to                                                              
address the presentments during the  session as early as possible.                                                              
This includes all of the positions  the Governor filled during the                                                              
interim and all the positions that will expire before March 1.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT asked if there  were other questions.  He said                                                              
that  he had  not  prepared  a CS  and  asked  if there  were  any                                                              
amendments  from committee  members.   He  made note  of the  zero                                                              
fiscal note.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR RANDY  PHILLIPS moved  to pass  CS HB  331 (STA)  from the                                                              
committee  with individual  recommendations  and the  accompanying                                                              
fiscal note.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT noted that the  CS was the House State Affairs                                                              
version of the bill.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CSHB 331(STA) moved  from committee with attached  fiscal note and                                                              
individual recommendations.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
          HB 344-INCREASE DRIVER'S LICENSE/PERMIT FEES                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. SYLVESTER said  that HB 344 was introduced by  the House Rules                                                              
Committee at the request of the Division  of Motor Vehicles (DMV).                                                              
HB 344 increases  the fees for  drivers' licenses and ID  cards by                                                              
$5.00  and  learners'  permits  by  $10.00.    It  allows  DMV  to                                                              
implement  a conversion  to a digital  drivers' licensing  system.                                                              
Examples of  what a drivers' license  might look like were  in the                                                              
packets.   She pointed  out that the  information on  the drivers'                                                              
licenses is  stipulated in  statute and this  bill would  not have                                                              
any impact on that.  The back of  the license would have a barcode                                                              
that would allow the police to scan  and protect the licensee from                                                              
having their private details broadcast.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
She said the  fee increase would  go into the General Fund  and is                                                              
expected to increase  revenues by $750,000 to $900,000.   The cost                                                              
of implementing the  conversion is expected to  be $500,000, which                                                              
is for the computer  systems only.  DMV already has  the funds for                                                              
the equipment.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
She said  that Alaska is one  of the three remaining  states still                                                              
using  the  old  Polaroid  personal  identification  system.    By                                                              
converting,  Alaska  will  step  up  its  efforts  to  ensure  the                                                              
integrity  of  this  nation's  individual  identification  system.                                                              
Since September  11, there  has been focus  on the need  to harden                                                              
the drivers'  license  system as  a security measure.   There  was                                                              
discussion about  switching to  a national identification  system,                                                              
but that idea was  abandoned.  However, there is  still a need for                                                              
increased security  and Alaska's  identification system is  a weak                                                              
point.   She explained  that  the ID card  is considered  to  be a                                                              
"breeder  document," which  can be parlayed  into other  documents                                                              
such as  airline tickets,  passports, checking accounts,  firearms                                                              
permits,  credit  cards,  etc.     The  drivers'  license  is  the                                                              
cornerstone of  the identity theft  phenomenon, which  resulted in                                                              
$7 billion in losses last year.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
She  said another  problem  with the  current  system is  underage                                                              
individuals obtaining  or manufacturing fraudulent  identification                                                              
cards.    The  packet  contains   resolutions  and  comments  from                                                              
restricted  sales individuals  who support  the conversion  of the                                                              
system.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. SYLVESTER  explained that  the drivers'  license has  become a                                                              
critical component  in our society's  security, both  personal and                                                              
financial.   The State  of Alaska has  a responsibility  to ensure                                                              
the integrity  of that system.   Yet there  is a lot  of anecdotal                                                              
information   about   how   the  identification   cards   can   be                                                              
fraudulently obtained.   DMV doesn't  have the ability to  pull up                                                              
photographs.    Someone  can easily  steal  your  Social  Security                                                              
Number  or  mail and  go  into the  DMV  and  if they  match  your                                                              
biometric data,  they can walk out  with your identification.   If                                                              
you travel  and you lose  your license or  have it stolen,  DMV is                                                              
also  unable  to  replace  your   lost  identification  with  your                                                              
photograph.   This makes it very  difficult to get back  to Alaska                                                              
without one of  the only proofs that the airline  will consider as                                                              
an identification form.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
She said Polaroid  is in Chapter 11 bankruptcy and  has sold their                                                              
personal  identification business  to a  company called  Digimark,                                                              
who will only supply  Alaska with film until the  end of the year.                                                              
The other two states that still use  the Polaroid system, Oklahoma                                                              
and Rhode Island, have already put  out RFP's for digital systems.                                                              
This will  also impair  Alaska's ability  to get  commercial-grade                                                              
Polaroid film.   She said that when digital cameras  came onto the                                                              
market,  it was  the  death knell  of  the old  Polaroid  drivers'                                                              
license system.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT asked Mary Marshburn to speak.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. MARY  MARSHBURN, Director of  DMV, said that when  DMV started                                                              
pursuing  a  digital  system, there  were  seven  "photo  states,"                                                              
meaning states that  still use the instant photograph  process. At                                                              
the  beginning  of  the  session, there  were  only  three  "photo                                                              
states."  Now Alaska is the only  state without even a RFP out for                                                              
services for a digital licensing system.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
She  said  the  current  system  is  a  manual  process;  it  uses                                                              
preprinted  forms, instant  photographs and  a laminated  security                                                              
pouch.  It  is subject to  theft, fraud and alteration.   Security                                                              
is  the  biggest advantage  to  a  digital  system.   It  is  more                                                              
difficult  to  alter   or  replicate  because  it   does  not  use                                                              
preprinted forms  or pouches or  instant photos.   The information                                                              
is computer generated and fused onto  a chip.  Computer generation                                                              
and  flexibility  enables  DMV  to place  more  and  more  complex                                                              
security features into the license.   The photo can be stored on a                                                              
server, which  allows DMV  personnel to access  it to  verify your                                                              
identity the next time you need a license or when you travel.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. MARSHBURN  said the biggest  benefactor of a  conversion would                                                              
be law enforcement. HB 344 enjoys  the support of law enforcement,                                                              
including  the  Alaska  State Troopers  and  the  Municipality  of                                                              
Anchorage Police  Department, which is computerizing  its cars and                                                              
are looking  forward to the change.   Alcohol and  tobacco sellers                                                              
are also in support  of HB 344 because a new system  can help them                                                              
with their underage problem.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT asked  if  people regularly  came  up to  the                                                              
counter at DMV to commit license fraud and alteration.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. MARSHBURN said  that in the past four months  in one Anchorage                                                              
office alone they have had five arrests.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT  asked if there  would be an embedded  chip or                                                              
just a barcode.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. MARSHBURN  said that  although the disc  upon which  the image                                                              
and license data is fused is referred  to as a "chip," it is not a                                                              
"chip" as we think of a computer chip.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT  asked  whether  the  barcode  contained  the                                                              
information  or if  it  contained the  license  number that  would                                                              
access the information through the computer system.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MARSHBURN asked  if  he was  looking at  the  example in  the                                                              
packet.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT said yes.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MARSHBURN said  that the  barcode  would contain  all of  the                                                              
information  required  by law,  such  as  name, address,  date  of                                                              
birth,  sex,  hair,  eyes  and  weight,  along  with  any  driving                                                              
restrictions, but not the Social Security Number.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT   pointed  out  that  the   underage  license                                                              
examples  in the packet  were laid  out vertically.   He  asked if                                                              
this was the intention of DMV to do this.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MARSHBURN  said she  was  excited  to  have the  licenses  be                                                              
formatted that  way.  DMV  wants to keep  the adult licenses  in a                                                              
horizontal format and the underage  licenses in a vertical format.                                                              
It helps everyone  who has to deal with the age  group.  She noted                                                              
that the  vertical license  says "under 21  until" along  the top.                                                              
With the  current system, the  alcohol or tobacco  salesperson has                                                              
to look  at the  birth date and  calculate the  age, which  can be                                                              
difficult and time  consuming.  Using the "under  21 until" system                                                              
would be much easier for them.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT  asked if there  were other questions  for Ms.                                                              
Marshburn from the  committee members.  He asked  if Del Smith had                                                              
comments or if he was just there to answer questions.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER  DEL SMITH, Department of Public  Safety, said                                                              
he was there to answer questions.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PHILLIPS  asked if  Social Security  Numbers were  off the                                                              
drivers' license now.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. MARSHBURN  said they were.   As of last year,  Social Security                                                              
Numbers were  not allowed  on the face  of the drivers'  licenses,                                                              
nor would they be in the barcode.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT pointed  out  that the  increased fees  would                                                              
cause  increased  revenues  of $900,000  and  the  contractual  IT                                                              
system cost would be $500,000 the first year.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR   PHILLIPS  asked   Ms.  Marshburn   if  DMV  would   take                                                              
responsibility for the fees being  raised and not tell complaining                                                              
customers that the Legislature did this.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. MARSHBURN  said yes.   The fees are  equal to $1.00  per year,                                                              
and they  were last raised  eleven years ago.   She has  no qualms                                                              
saying it is well worth it.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  PHILLIPS said  he'd been  through this  before where  the                                                              
employees said the Legislature did it.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. MARSHBURN promised that wouldn't happen.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT asked if there  was anyone else that wished to                                                              
testify on HB 344.  There was no  one.  He asked if there were any                                                              
amendments from committee members.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  BETTYE DAVIS  moved  to pass  CS HB  334  (STA) from  the                                                              
committee  with individual  recommendations  and the  accompanying                                                              
fiscal note.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT asked if there were any objections.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CSHB 334(STA) moved  from committee with attached  fiscal note and                                                              
individual recommendations.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
         SB 361-PERMIT COORDINATION & COASTAL ZONE MGMT                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT  announced that  the committee would  now take                                                              
up SB 361.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT,  sponsor of SB  361, said that  his intention                                                              
was solely  to introduce the bill;  he didn't expect  final action                                                              
this year.   He said  that the regulators  and the  regulated felt                                                              
that the regulatory  system that had come together  over the years                                                              
was  cumbersome  in  areas.    He  pointed  out  that  there  were                                                              
processes  that were not  coordinated amongst  state agencies  and                                                              
there was  some duplication  in the processes.   The  problems had                                                              
been dealt  with over the years  through a piece-meal system.   He                                                              
thought  that it  was  time for  the Legislature  to  look at  the                                                              
entire system  and see if  it was time  to start from  scratch and                                                              
put together  a better-coordinated system.   He has  been involved                                                              
in this  overall issue  for a number  of years  and has  talked to                                                              
division directors  and commissioners  and found  that there  is a                                                              
lot of interest from state employees  that the Legislature look at                                                              
changes.  The Governor introduced  a bill a few years ago that was                                                              
used as  a basis for SB  361.  He doesn't  propose that this  is a                                                              
perfect bill at this stage.  He wanted  to get some input from the                                                              
state  agencies,   the  regulated  communities  and   the  citizen                                                              
watchdogs as to what was beneficial  in the bill and what areas of                                                              
the bill might have pitfalls so that  he can work on the bill with                                                              
those groups during  the interim.  He announced that  he wanted to                                                              
aim  for better  coordination  amongst  the  agencies so  that  an                                                              
appellant who is appealing one issue  didn't have different appeal                                                              
timelines  in different  agencies.    He wants  to  create a  more                                                              
streamlined and uniform permitting system.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. MARTY  RUTHERFORD,  Deputy Commissioner  of the Department  of                                                              
Natural Resources  (DNR), said that  Pat Galvin would be  the lead                                                              
spokesperson for the State.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  PATRICK   GALVIN,  Director   of  Division  of   Governmental                                                              
Coordination in the  Office of the Governor, said  his division is                                                              
responsible   for  the  implementation   of  the  Alaska   Coastal                                                              
Management Program.   SB 361 is very similar to SB  186, which was                                                              
introduced at  the Governor's request  in 1997.  They  are looking                                                              
for  an   efficient  decision   making  process  that   eliminates                                                              
obstacles to  development while allowing  the public  to influence                                                              
those  decisions,  provides  for easier  and  fewer  applications,                                                              
allows coordinated review of all  agency permit requirements for a                                                              
particular project,  consolidates public notices and  provides for                                                              
a more  efficient appeal  process.   In September  1997 after  the                                                              
Governor's  bill   was  introduced,   the  Administration   had  a                                                              
streamlining   workshop   with   participants   from   industries,                                                              
conservation groups, local governments  and state agencies to talk                                                              
about the principles in the context  of the bill that was in front                                                              
of the Legislature  at that time.  A majority of  the group agreed                                                              
that these were  important issues that needed work,  but could not                                                              
agree on  an approach to achieve  them.  Although the  bill didn't                                                              
move  through  the  Legislature,   the  Administration  has  since                                                              
continued  to   look  at  ways   to  achieve  the   goals  without                                                              
legislation.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  GALVIN said  they  looked at  ways  in which  the  individual                                                              
agencies can better  use the general permitting  process and other                                                              
such vehicles  to concentrate  the efforts  of permitters  and the                                                              
public on  those projects that have  the greatest impact  or occur                                                              
in the most sensitive  locations.  They have undertaken  a variety                                                              
of  projects to  improve  and  simplify the  permit  applications,                                                              
including  increasing the  use of  the Internet.   They have  also                                                              
increased the level of coordination  of the agencies in the public                                                              
notice  process.  In  the area  of coastal  management, they  have                                                              
drafted  guidance to staff  on process-related  issues to  improve                                                              
the level  of permit coordination  that occurs in  the consistency                                                              
review process.   They are  in the final  stages of a  revision to                                                              
the coastal management  consistency review regulations  to provide                                                              
for more  efficient coordination in  the process.  There  are also                                                              
more specific things they have done.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
He said while  they've made progress  in the past few  years, they                                                              
recognize  that there  is still  a  lot of  room for  improvement.                                                              
They believe this is a timely issue,  but given the amount of time                                                              
left in  the Session  and the complexity  of the issues  involved,                                                              
they agree  that it's not reasonable  to expect a solution  in the                                                              
next few weeks.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
He wanted to  point out a few  areas of concern in SB  361.  There                                                              
is  a  lack   of  specificity  regarding  the   authority  of  the                                                              
coordinating agency in relation to  the permitting agencies.  This                                                              
is particularly  troublesome  in the non-coastal  areas where  the                                                              
coordinated approach  hasn't been used  before.  It will  raise an                                                              
issue  when the  coordinating agency  doesn't have  a decision  to                                                              
make  on  its own  and  they  are only  doing  the  administrative                                                              
process  in coordinating  the  decisions  of the  other  agencies.                                                              
This  may  cause a  problem  when  some  of the  permit  decisions                                                              
conflict  with each  other.   Currently,  through the  consistency                                                              
review process,  they have  a common set  of guidelines  that they                                                              
can use to resolve  the disputes.  The current bill  may create an                                                              
undue burden on smaller projects  by the need for project-specific                                                              
negotiations  with  regard  to  some timelines  that  may  not  be                                                              
necessary for  smaller projects.   There is a lack  of specificity                                                              
in  the bill  regarding  timelines  and  time requirements.    The                                                              
timeline that  is designed to satisfy  the aims of the  bill might                                                              
interfere with other statutory requirements.   The bill limits the                                                              
role of  coastal districts  and local  governments as compared  to                                                              
the current process  in the Coastal Management Program.   He noted                                                              
that there would  be a fiscal impact in bringing  the coordinating                                                              
review  outside of the  coastal zone  because  the work has  never                                                              
been done before.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT  asked if DNR was  acting as a lead  agency on                                                              
large mining projects.  If so, there had been some experience.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. GALVIN affirmed  that a handful of large mining  projects have                                                              
gone through  a coordinated  review outside  of the coastal  zone.                                                              
They were  referring to the rest  of the projects, which  have not                                                              
gone  through a  coordinated  review.   The  section dealing  with                                                              
administrative appeals  needs some specificity with  regard to who                                                              
decides the  issue when there are  multiple permits that  might be                                                              
implicated by  an appeal.  They  are encouraged to hear  that both                                                              
leading  major party  gubernatorial candidates  have expressed  an                                                              
interest in  resolving this issue  and the Division would  like to                                                              
work  with  the  Committee  during   the  interim  and  encouraged                                                              
participation  of  the other  major  stakeholders,  such as  local                                                              
governments, project applicants, conservation groups and tribes.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT asked if Mr.  Galvin had looked at the list of                                                              
licensing permits  that would  be covered under  SB 361 on  page 3                                                              
and 4.  He asked if there was anything  that needed to be added or                                                              
omitted.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. GALVIN  said that they had looked  at the list but  hadn't yet                                                              
come to  an official position.   The  list is different  from that                                                              
which had  been presented by  the Governor in  SB 186.   There are                                                              
certain DNR authorizations  that weren't in the  previous bill but                                                              
are in this bill and vice versa.   They haven't had the discussion                                                              
as to the appropriate  way to handle that.  They  noted that there                                                              
are  some Department  of  Transportation authorizations  that  are                                                              
included  in  the  bill  but  are   currently  not  subject  to  a                                                              
coordinated review  through the Coastal  Management Program.   The                                                              
list  would need  more  work and  would  require  looking at  each                                                              
individual  authorization  and thinking  about  whether  or not  a                                                              
coordinated approach was required.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT  asked if the allowance for  public input into                                                              
the process was sufficient.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. GALVIN  said there  are a  number of  people who could  better                                                              
answer that question.  The principle  behind the original bill was                                                              
that  if  the  processes  could   be  clarified  and  more  easily                                                              
understood,  then those  could be  brought together  and create  a                                                              
single  review  that  would  make  it easier  for  the  public  to                                                              
participate in the process.  To the  extent that SB 361 is able to                                                              
achieve that,  they would feel that  there was no decrease  in the                                                              
public's opportunity to participate.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT  asked if  there  were questions  from  other                                                              
committee members.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. RUTHERFORD added that DNR had  been pursuing some efficiencies                                                              
since  the  Governor's  bill  had been  introduced  in  1997.  She                                                              
explained   that  permitting   efficiency   is   not  only   about                                                              
coordinated   notices   and  reviews,   but   also  about   making                                                              
information  accessible  to  the   public  and  easy  to  use  and                                                              
eliminating the number of times the  public must apply for permits                                                              
and how  they paid for  their fees.  Those  are some of  the areas                                                              
where DNR has made improvements.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
She said  amendments  to the oil  and gas  leasing statutes  allow                                                              
them to offer  unleased oil and gas properties on  an annual basis                                                              
within large  geographical areas.   They  have undertaken  a large                                                              
mine coordinated review  process which has been  very effective in                                                              
bringing the agencies and the public into an integrated process.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
She  said   there  have  been   many  other  lesser   streamlining                                                              
improvements.  For instance, mining  claims are now being reviewed                                                              
in  160-acre  blocks.     These  blocks  also   facilitate  online                                                              
permitting, which  will be  available next year.   She  noted that                                                              
DNR now  allows payment  of mining  rents online.   Starting  next                                                              
fiscal year, they will allow miners  to file and pay for claims at                                                              
the recorders office only without  having to go to another counter                                                              
to make rent payments.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
In the area of land-use permits,  she said commercial recreational                                                              
permits for spike  camps can now be applied for  over the counter.                                                              
By the end  of this calendar  year, DNR will have  land-use permit                                                              
applications, processing and permit issuance online.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
She said  that in the  area of material  sales, DNR  has increased                                                              
the allowable  over-the-counter contract  from 100 cubic  yards to                                                              
200  cubic yards,  which decreased  the  workload associated  with                                                              
negotiating  contracts  and  the  number  of  times  they  had  to                                                              
negotiate a contract.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
In the  area of  land sales,  she said  DNR now  has a website  of                                                              
lands  that are  available  over-the-counter or  are  going to  be                                                              
offered in land  sales.  Although it has increased  their workload                                                              
significantly, it  is good for  the public.   By the end  of 2002,                                                              
the  public will  be  able  to purchase  over-the-counter  parcels                                                              
online.  The public  will also be able to make  a sealed bid offer                                                              
for a parcel online.  Data from land  purchases will automatically                                                              
be  entered  into  the  state  land  records  system,  which  will                                                              
eliminate some double entry.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. RUTHERFORD said  DNR has other areas of improvements,  such as                                                              
online  access to  publications, land  title information,  records                                                              
research  and  park  cabin reservations.    The  efficiencies  are                                                              
important to the public and to how  the agency does business.  She                                                              
believes the improvements that have  happened and the improvements                                                              
that  are  in   the  early  stages  will  effect   how  a  permit-                                                              
streamlining bill is crafted.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT  asked  if  there  were  any  questions  from                                                              
committee members.  He asked Ms.  Rutherford if there was anything                                                              
specific to DNR in SB 361 that concerned her.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS.  RUTHERFORD  said that  the  list  on pages  3  and  4 was  of                                                              
concern.  They would like to look  at it in the future in terms of                                                              
what the  bill will  eventually do.   There are  some on  the list                                                              
they  felt needed  to be  eliminated.   Some  of the  improvements                                                              
they've  made will  change how  they  approach various  permitting                                                              
processes  and thus may  not be  necessary as  part of the  larger                                                              
process.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT  asked if she felt that the  process should be                                                              
determined before deciding what it should apply to.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS. RUTHERFORD  said that some of  details of the  various permits                                                              
would be appropriate in the overall discussion of the bill.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
KURT  FREDRICKSSON,  Deputy  Commissioner  of  the  Department  of                                                              
Environmental  Conservation (DEC),  said that DEC  was one  of the                                                              
primary permitting agencies  in the state and SB  361 would have a                                                              
large impact on  DEC.  Permit streamlining and  simplification has                                                              
been a topic  of concern in DEC's  effort to do a better  job with                                                              
permit  development   while  allowing  public   participation  and                                                              
carrying out  their mission  of protecting  public health  and the                                                              
environment.   DEC  has taken  a  number of  initiatives, such  as                                                              
working with stakeholder  groups in their water program.   Some of                                                              
the products  of that have been  seen before the  Legislature this                                                              
year.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
He  said DEC  has  worked  with workgroups  on  how  they can  use                                                              
general  permits   to  streamline   some  of  the   permits  while                                                              
protecting  the environment.   Where and  how general permits  are                                                              
applied is the key.  He said that  DEC has general permits for log                                                              
transfer  facilities,  seafood  processing  facilities  and  storm                                                              
water discharges.   DEC is automating the general  permits so that                                                              
they will  be available  over the  Internet.   DEC is also  making                                                              
progress in  their air  programs.   They undertook a  benchmarking                                                              
study to  look at  how other  states used  the general  permitting                                                              
process  and looked  to see  how they  can take  advantage of  the                                                              
experience  of other states  and apply  it in  Alaska.   They have                                                              
entertained  ideas such  as  permit by  rule  and standard  permit                                                              
conditions and  are moving ahead on  that.  They have  taken steps                                                              
to make  things easier electronically.   He wanted to  caution the                                                              
committee  that  coordinated  project  permitting  should  not  be                                                              
applied to all cases.  For large  mines and coastal management, it                                                              
does make sense.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 02-24, SIDE B                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
4:30 p.m.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
DEPUTY  COMMISSIONER FREDRICKSSON  said that  the pipeline  office                                                              
was a good example where agencies  came together to streamline the                                                              
permitting process  for TAPS.   However, if  you are  only dealing                                                              
with a small project, a coordinated  review is not necessary as it                                                              
is  just  as  effective  for  the  applicant  to  go  through  the                                                              
coursework with the  agencies.  He said that there  are times when                                                              
it is more efficient  for DEC to focus on a DEC  issue rather than                                                              
being  brought into  a larger  debate.   He  noted that  sometimes                                                              
permitting is  made easier when you  have good information.   When                                                              
they  have  good ambient  water  and  air  quality data  in  site-                                                              
specific  information,  it  can   go  a  long  ways  to  resolving                                                              
conflicts and answering  questions.  The lack  of such information                                                              
can delay a project.  DEC thinks  that workgroups are the best way                                                              
to deal with  issues and as this issue moves  forward they suggest                                                              
that  all  the  other  stakeholders  should  be  involved  in  the                                                              
process.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
He said he  hasn't had the chance  to go over the list  in detail,                                                              
but DEC will  do so.  One  item that concerned him  subsection (b)                                                              
on page 6  addressing project application and  listing the various                                                              
parties that  the applications would  be available to or  would be                                                              
notified when applications  were received.  They  have come across                                                              
this  issue when  they do  an oil  spill  prevention and  response                                                              
contingency  plan when they  also alert  the Prince William  Sound                                                              
and Cook  Inlet Regional  Citizens' Advisory  Council.   He thinks                                                              
that  the   agency  should  make   an  effort  to   contact  local                                                              
governments when  dealing with development or  permitted activity.                                                              
He  didn't notice  local  governments in  the  list, although  the                                                              
coastal districts  in the coastal context  are one in the  same as                                                              
local governments.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
He said that  DEC has looked  at their appeal procedures  and have                                                              
been  working on  updating their  regulations.   One  of the  more                                                              
important updated  regulations deals with allowing  the parties to                                                              
settle their differences  in an informal process  when the parties                                                              
are willing  to work  together to  resolve issues.   He  feels the                                                              
appeals process section of the bill  is something he would like to                                                              
explore to make it a rigid and formal  process when necessary, but                                                              
still have a  way for parties to come together  through a mediated                                                              
effort to find a way of resolving conflict.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT  asked if there were questions  from committee                                                              
members.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. DANA OLSON said she appreciated  that this bill was being held                                                              
to get further  input.  She feels  that the issue needs  more time                                                              
to be  looked at.  She  feels it would  be important to  get input                                                              
from  people  who  are  affected  and  that  they  be  allowed  to                                                              
participate  in  the  planning  process.   This  would  allow  the                                                              
Committee insight into things that  aren't generally considered in                                                              
permits and their affects on people.   She noted that Title 39 was                                                              
not in  SB 361.   In 1987, the  Legislature made a  quasi-judicial                                                              
decision  requiring that  the  1984 Chase  Agricultural  Homestead                                                              
Lottery undergo a provision under  Title 38, which was not funded.                                                              
This  has left  her  in  limbo for  years.    She would  like  the                                                              
Committee to  address the issue with  her as a  go-between between                                                              
her and DNR because  the system is broken.   Her property entrance                                                              
is still valid but she is required  to do something that she can't                                                              
do by  herself.  The  court case is  an enforceable policy  of the                                                              
Coastal Management Act.  This could  affect other interests beside                                                              
herself.   She would like  it resolved one  way or another  by the                                                              
Committee.   She  feels  this should  be codified  in  law and  it                                                              
requires some  consideration of  her interests  and DNR's  and the                                                              
State's interests.   She would like  some means to  participate in                                                              
the process.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT  asked if  she was part  of a coastal  service                                                              
area.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. OLSON said that she lives in the coastal community of Knik.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT  asked  if  she was  part  of  their  service                                                              
district.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS.  OLSON  said  that  she was  in  the  Mat-Su  Borough  coastal                                                              
district but the  Mat-Su coastal district had  been ineffective in                                                              
addressing the community's concerns.   The district has been cited                                                              
in a federal lawsuit in the past  and is a system that needs to be                                                              
looked at.   She  pointed out that  they were  not here  today and                                                              
thus she can only assume that they  weren't interested.  She lives                                                              
there and  she is  interested.   She is  willing to volunteer  her                                                              
time and  effort to provide input  if the Committee is  willing to                                                              
listen.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT  asked if there was anyone else  who wished to                                                              
testify.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SB 361 was held in committee.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
               SB 363-CAMPAIGN FINANCE PROVISIONS                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERIAULT  said that the  committee would now take  up SB                                                              
363 regarding  issue ads and what  is taking place in  Congress in                                                              
regards  to soft-money  issue  ads.   SB 363  tries  to achieve  a                                                              
better understanding  of issue  ads and  express advocacy  and the                                                              
line between  them.  He said that  he is trying to come  up with a                                                              
workable definition  of an  "electioneering communication."   This                                                              
moves towards  express advocacy  and has a  clear intent  to shape                                                              
the outcome of an election.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. JOE BALASH,  staff to Senate State Affairs  Committee, pointed                                                              
out that on  page 1, line 11  in the section describing  the "paid                                                              
for by"  statement that all  communications are supposed  to have,                                                              
the language "and  the total production costs  of the advertising"                                                              
was added.   He said that section  was intended to be  part of the                                                              
overall disclosure in Sec. 2 dealing  with when a communication is                                                              
made by a group.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PHILLIPS asked if that was a drafting error.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. BALASH said yes.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PHILLIPS asked if Mr. Balash  was proposing to delete that                                                              
language and add it in Section 2.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. BALASH said yes, it could be inserted into line 2 on page 2.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT  asked if  Mr.  Balash  had spoken  to  legal                                                              
drafters about that.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. BALASH said yes.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  PHILLIPS  asked  if  that   would  be  reflected  in  the                                                              
committee substitute.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT  said yes.   He said  that he planned  to take                                                              
public testimony today  to figure out areas of concern  in SB 363.                                                              
There might be some additions, deletions or clarifications.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  PHILLIPS said  that he  wanted  to clarify  that for  the                                                              
record.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT said that was  something that should have been                                                              
caught before it was introduced.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BALASH noted  the  language on  page 3  starting  on line  10                                                              
dealing  with a  definition  of an  electioneering  communication,                                                              
"Must,  when  read as  a  whole,  and with  limited  reference  to                                                              
external   events,  be   susceptible   of   no  other   reasonable                                                              
interpretation  but as  an exhortation  to vote  for or against  a                                                              
specific candidate,"  came directly from  a decision in  the '80's                                                              
         th                                                                                                                     
by the  9  Circuit Court  of Appeals.   The United  States Supreme                                                              
Court has one  major decision saying that express  advocacy may be                                                              
regulated  as speech and  issue advocacy  is in  the free  zone of                                                              
political  expression.   However,  the Court  didn't provide  much                                                              
                                               th                                                                               
guidance as to where  to draw the line.  The 9   Circuit Court did                                                              
issue  a decision  using the  language  cited in  the bill,  which                                                              
wasn't accepted  by the  United States  Supreme Court for  further                                                              
consideration, so Alaska takes that as the rule of law.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT  asked if the Supreme Court chose  not to take                                                              
                                                         th                                                                     
the issue  up to provide  clarification, therefore the  9  Circuit                                                              
decision became the law.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. BALASH said that was correct.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT said  that case  was the  Furgatch case.   He                                                              
noted  that  there were  a  number  of examples  in  the  campaign                                                              
finance paper  in the packets of  radio or TV  advertisements that                                                              
were clearly issue ads.  He said  that issue ads can easily become                                                              
express advocacy  with the change  of a few  words and there  is a                                                              
gray area in between issue ads and  express advocacy.  Rather than                                                              
try to draw a  clear line between issue ads  and express advocacy,                                                              
SB  363 sought  to  identify "electioneering  communications"  and                                                              
determine what  kinds of limitations  or disclosure they  can have                                                              
on the gray area between advocacy  and expression.  The courts had                                                              
said that if you  write a law and it's overly  vague and broad and                                                              
people can't  tell what side  of the line  they fall on, it  has a                                                              
chilling effect  on expression.   The McCain-Feingold  legislation                                                              
drew a line of 30 days from a primary  election and 60 days from a                                                              
general election  so the  courts couldn't  say that people  didn't                                                              
know  and  therefore   out  of  fear  they  are   refraining  from                                                              
expressing  themselves.  He  said that  SB 363  tries to  draw the                                                              
line between  "electioneering communication"  and when  the person                                                              
clearly is  trying to impact the  outcome of an election.   In the                                                              
Buckley v.  Valeo case,  the court  put together  a list  of words                                                              
that  indicated  express advocacy,  using  the phrase  "such  as."                                                              
Some of the  courts have said that  if you don't use  the words on                                                              
that  list,  then you're  okay.    However,  the language  of  the                                                              
decision  says "words such  as," so  he feels  that it wasn't  the                                                              
intent of the court to provide a definitive list of words.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT said SB 363 attempts  to come up with a common                                                              
sense   definition  and   application   of   that  definition   in                                                              
restrictions  and requirements  for  disclosure of  the source  of                                                              
that money as we get closer and closer to an election.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. BONNIE JACK said that she is  glad that the bill clarifies the                                                              
location of total  production costs of advertising,  but she still                                                              
has a question about that.  Most  of the time during a campaign it                                                              
is hard to  come up with total  production costs when  you haven't                                                              
completed the project  yet.  But SB 363 asks  for total production                                                              
costs.  She used  an example of initial costs  of printed material                                                              
as compared with  reprinting costs.  She wondered  if you included                                                              
the  first time  you  printed  it, or  if  you only  included  the                                                              
reprinting costs.   She  noted that the  same sort of  thing would                                                              
happen if you made a TV commercial,  and then used the sound track                                                              
from the TV  commercial and put it  in a radio commercial,  how do                                                              
you determine  what the  total costs  were?   She wondered  if you                                                              
included in  the radio costs the  cost of the TV commercial.   She                                                              
said  that she  is confused  and doesn't  know what  this bill  is                                                              
getting at.   She noted that the  bill had been introduced  on the                                                              
  th                                                                                                                            
18   on April  and  she would  like  to see  a  sponsor letter  to                                                              
explain  why this  was done.   She  noted that  the Alaska  Public                                                              
Offices Commission  (APOC) was  all about  disclosure, and  if you                                                              
just disclosed  everything, including  the costs, where  the money                                                              
comes from,  what the  expenses are,  she would  think that  would                                                              
take  care of it.   She  cited, the  language "a  party group,  or                                                              
nongroup  entity making  a communication"  in line  14 on page  1.                                                              
She asked  why you  should  have to repeat  all this.   If  you're                                                              
advocating  for a  candidate, you  have to  file with  APOC.   She                                                              
doesn't  understand the  purpose  behind this.   Page  3, line  12                                                              
makes reference to  a "vote for or against a  specific candidate."                                                              
She wondered about ballot propositions  or initiatives?  She feels                                                              
the  bill was  put together  too  quickly and  the drafting  error                                                              
proves that point.  She feels that  there was not a lot of thought                                                              
put into the bill.  It bothers her  that this type of bill was put                                                              
together so late in a sine die session.   She would like to see SB                                                              
363 thrown out.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT  said  that  was  why there  is  a  committee                                                              
process.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. BROOKE  MILES, Director  of APOC,  said that  this bill  would                                                              
make  no  change   to  campaign  disclosure  law   except  to  add                                                              
additional  requirements  for all  candidates,  groups,  non-group                                                              
entities and parties  to place the production costs  at the end of                                                              
the "paid  for by" disclosure.   She  pointed out that  production                                                              
costs could be  professional services donated, which  is permitted                                                              
as  a result  of  SB 103,  and  therefore would  not  seen in  the                                                              
production costs.   There are requirements by  the Commission that                                                              
this information has  to be readable and the costs  will also have                                                              
to be  readable.  FCC  costs would also  be included in  radio and                                                              
television.   All communications  that are  intended to  influence                                                              
the outcome of  an election or a ballot proposition  are currently                                                              
covered   by  the   campaign   disclosure   law,  which   requires                                                              
registration,    periodic    reports   and    identification    of                                                              
communications.  She said that if  Sec. 2 is intended to require a                                                              
24-hour  expenditure  report,  which  was  part  of  the  original                                                              
campaign disclosure  law but was  thrown out by Buckley  v. Valeo,                                                              
then it should  probably be done  in the sections that  talk about                                                              
reports, that being Sec. 1 of Sec. 040 of the law.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
She said  that APOC  hasn't  had the chance  to look  at the  bill                                                              
closely yet.  She offers her comments  on behalf of the Commission                                                              
staff who  have looked at the  bill.  APOC discussed  the question                                                              
of drawing a  line between issue advocacy and  express advocacy at                                                              
length during their meeting in March  and determined that it would                                                              
be best  for them to  look at each  case on a case-by-case  basis.                                                              
She noted that  election communications rules are all  in AS 15.56                                                              
and the enforcement  burden of that would fall to  the Division of                                                              
Elections, the  Commission has no  authority over that.   But when                                                              
people are looking to the campaign  disclosure law to get guidance                                                              
on  what's  required, they  may  not  fall  to the  definition  of                                                              
electioneering communications in AS 15.60.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
She noted that the  fiscal note sent over by the  APOC was modest,                                                              
but SB  363 would  impact APOC  because approximately  80%  of the                                                              
inquiries  pending to  move toward  complaint  actions start  with                                                              
"paid for  by" questions and  concerns.  If  SB 363 were  to pass,                                                              
they would  have to disclose  total production costs,  which might                                                              
be  inaccurate  or missing,  that  would  have  to match  what  is                                                              
finally reported on the campaign  disclosure reports or they would                                                              
be subject to a  penalty of $50 per day for a  false or inaccurate                                                              
claim.  The fiscal note would include  funding for a hearing, some                                                              
travel to conduct  training to help people and  printing paper and                                                              
postage.  She  noted that this would be the  second major campaign                                                              
disclosure  revision and  it would  occur during  the most  active                                                              
election session in  over ten years and APOC's  budget had already                                                              
been significantly decreased.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT  said that  he wanted to  talk about  the 15-5                                                              
reports.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. MILES asked if he was referring to the contributor reports.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT  said he  understood  that  this might  be  a                                                              
holdover  from previous  times in  which  APOC personnel  expended                                                              
time and energy  needlessly.  He asked if this  was something that                                                              
no longer serves a useful purpose.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
5:00 pm                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. MILES  said  that it could  save a  little time  by no  longer                                                              
needing to enter  the 15-5 reports into their database.   The 15-5                                                              
report was  an evolutionary  process in  public information.   She                                                              
explained   that  the   1996   campaign  finance   revision,   the                                                              
Legislature  wanted  to delete  the  requirement  to file  a  15-5                                                              
entirely, but  APOC was uncomfortable  with that and they  came up                                                              
with  a  system in  which  a  report  is required  only  when  the                                                              
contribution  is more than  $500 and  it must  be filed  within 30                                                              
days.   This was changed  again in SB  103 so that  candidates can                                                              
file  the report  on behalf  of the  contributor.   At that  point                                                              
since the candidate  is not only filing their own  report but also                                                              
filing the  contributor's report, it  is no longer a  useful check                                                              
and balance.  She feels that the  $500 limit is a little chilling.                                                              
Campaign disclosure  reports show a  lot of contributions  at $499                                                              
or   even  $499.99   to  keep   the  burden   of  reporting   from                                                              
contributors.   She  agrees that  the report  is not  of much  use                                                              
anymore, but  in the  past it provided  useful information  to the                                                              
public during  the times that  campaign disclosure  reports aren't                                                              
filed.   It still  does that  to a  degree with  respect to  large                                                              
contributions to ballot proposition  groups.  But other than that,                                                              
it wasn't needed much.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT noted that the  original disclosure amount was                                                              
more than $500 on the 15-5s.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. MILES said that the 15-5s were  required when people gave $250                                                              
or more.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT said there was  still a provision that said as                                                              
you get  close to  the election  if a  person with  either one  or                                                              
multiple contributions  over $250,  you would  still have  the 24-                                                              
hour requirement for filing a report.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MILES said  that  contributors have  never  been required  to                                                              
report in  24 hours.   Contributors used to  have 10 days  if they                                                              
contributed more than $250.  Now  they have 30 days when they give                                                              
$500.    And they  can't  give  more  than  $500 to  a  candidate.                                                              
Candidates must  report a  contribution of more  than $250  from a                                                              
single source  during the 9 days  that precede the election  in an                                                              
abbreviated format within 24 hours.   This information is repeated                                                              
in further detail in the 10-day-after  report.  She noted that the                                                              
contributor reports and 24-hour reports  are two different things.                                                              
She thinks  that a lot  of discussion  came about because  APOC at                                                              
their  March  meeting  directed staff  to  begin  assessing  civil                                                              
penalties  at  the  statutory  level  of  $50  per  day  that  the                                                              
contributor  reports are  late.   She feels  that many  candidates                                                              
have concerns regarding that.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT asked  if there  were  any further  comments,                                                              
questions from  committee members, or  anybody else who  wished to                                                              
testify.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SB 363 was held in committee.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
There being no  further business before the committee,  the Senate                                                              
State Affairs Committee meeting was adjourned at 5:10 p.m.                                                                      

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