Legislature(2001 - 2002)

02/20/2001 03:40 PM STA

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                     ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                   
                  SENATE STATE AFFAIRS COMMITTEE                                                                              
                         February 20, 2001                                                                                      
                             3:40 p.m.                                                                                          
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
Senator Gene Therriault, Chair                                                                                                  
Senator Randy Phillips, Vice Chair                                                                                              
Senator Rick Halford                                                                                                            
Senator Drue Pearce                                                                                                             
Senator Bettye Davis                                                                                                            
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
All Members Present                                                                                                             
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
SENATE BILL NO. 93                                                                                                              
"An Act relating to the Arctic Winter Games Team Alaska trust; and                                                              
providing for an effective date."                                                                                               
     MOVED SB 93 OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                               
SENATE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 4                                                                                              
Relating to declaring April 6, 2001, as Alaska Tartan Day.                                                                      
     MOVED CS SCR 4 (STA) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                      
SENATE BILL NO. 82                                                                                                              
"An Act making corrective amendments to the Alaska Statutes as                                                                  
recommended by the revisor of statutes; and providing for an                                                                    
effective date."                                                                                                                
     HEARD AND HELD SCS SB 82 (STA)                                                                                             
HOUSE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 5(title am)                                                                                     
Proposing amendments to Uniform Rules 20(a), 37, and 49(a)(4) of                                                                
the Alaska State Legislature.                                                                                                   
     MOVED SCS HCR 5 (STA) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                     
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
SB 93 - No previous action.                                                                                                     
SCR 4 - No previous action.                                                                                                     
SB 82 - No previous action.                                                                                                     
HCR 5 - No previous action.                                                                                                     
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
Dan Sullivan                                                                                                                    
Arctic Winter Games/Team Alaska                                                                                                 
16515 Centerfield  Dr.                                                                                                          
Eagle River,  AK 99577                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SB 93                                                                                            
Gary Mathews                                                                                                                    
Arctic Winter Games/Team Alaska                                                                                                 
16515 Centerfield  Dr.                                                                                                          
Eagle River,  AK 99577                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SB 93                                                                                            
John Rodda                                                                                                                      
Arctic Winter Games/Team Alaska                                                                                                 
16515 Centerfield  Dr.                                                                                                          
Eagle River,  AK 99577                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SB 93                                                                                            
Wendell Shiffler                                                                                                                
Arctic Winter Games/Team Alaska                                                                                                 
1540 Hayes Ave.                                                                                                                 
Fairbanks, AK 99701                                                                                                             
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SB 93                                                                                            
Phyllis Tate                                                                                                                    
Arctic Winter Games/Team Alaska                                                                                                 
1540 Hayes Ave.                                                                                                                 
Fairbanks, AK 99701                                                                                                             
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SB 93                                                                                            
Dan Henderson                                                                                                                   
Alaska Highlanders                                                                                                              
Anchorage, AK 99513                                                                                                             
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SCR 4                                                                                            
Pamela Finley                                                                                                                   
Revisor of Statutes                                                                                                             
Legislative Legal Services                                                                                                      
Terry Miller Bldg.                                                                                                              
Juneau, AK  99801-1182                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT: Explained SB 82                                                                                           
Denise Henderson                                                                                                                
Staff to Representative Kott                                                                                                    
Alaska State Capitol, Room 204                                                                                                  
Juneau, AK 99801-1182                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT: Explained provisions of HCR 5                                                                             
Thomas Wright                                                                                                                   
Staff to Representative Porter                                                                                                  
Alaska State Capitol, Room 208                                                                                                  
Juneau, AK 99801 99801-1182                                                                                                     
POSITION STATEMENT: Explained  provisions of HCR 5                                                                            
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
TAPE 01-7, SIDE A                                                                                                             
Number 001                                                                                                                      
CHAIRMAN GENE  THERRIAULT called the Senate State  Affairs Committee                                                          
meeting  to order  at  3:40  p.m. Present  were  Senators  Phillips,                                                            
Halford, Davis and Chairman  Therriault. The first order of business                                                            
to come before the committee was SB 93.                                                                                         
            SB 93-ARCTIC WINTER GAMES TEAM ALASKA TRUST                                                                     
SENATOR  PHILLIPS, prime  sponsor of  SB 93, said  that he has  been                                                            
involved with the Arctic  Winter Games and Team Alaska for more than                                                            
15  years and  consistent  funding  has always  been  a problem.  He                                                            
explained  that the  games were  established  32 years  ago with  an                                                            
agreement  between  the  Premiers   from  the  Yukon  and  Northwest                                                            
Territories  and  then  Alaska  Governor,  Walter  Hickel  providing                                                            
winter  sporting  events  every  two  years.  There  are  over  2000                                                            
participants and  18 sporting events featured. The  competition will                                                            
be held  in Greenland  next year  with participation  from  Northern                                                            
Alberta, Northern  Quebec, Northwest Territories,  Yukon, Alaska and                                                            
Greenland and observers from two Russian provinces.                                                                             
This legislation  was introduced in an effort to provide  consistent                                                            
funding. It  is modeled after the  Alaska Children's Trust  Fund so,                                                            
if passed,  an endowment  would  be established.  The athletes  come                                                            
from all parts of the state  and are expected to pay about one third                                                            
of the associated  costs of participation,  which is in contrast  to                                                            
their  competitors  who  have  all  their  expenses  paid  by  their                                                            
SENATOR  PHILLIPS believes  that endowing  the games  will not  only                                                            
provide  consistent funding  it will  also send  a positive  message                                                            
that Alaska is  a bold and willing participant in  the Arctic Winter                                                            
Games. In 2006  it is Alaska's turn to host the games  and Kenai and                                                            
the Mat Su areas are competing for the bid.                                                                                     
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT asked  whether the current  board of  directors                                                            
would be used if the trust was established.                                                                                     
SENATOR PHILLIPS said the current board would be used.                                                                          
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT  referred to page  2 line 5 and asked  if income                                                            
from the trust  would be put into the general fund  and then require                                                            
yearly legislative appropriation.                                                                                               
SENATOR PHILLIPS said that  it was set up that way and that a letter                                                            
from  Dan Sullivan  suggests  that  tobacco  settlement  money is  a                                                            
possible funding source.                                                                                                        
Number 434                                                                                                                      
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT asked  whether the interest  earnings  would be                                                            
general fund without yearly legislative appropriation.                                                                          
SENATOR PHILLIPS said his  intent is to keep the money with the fund                                                            
itself.  It's modeled  exactly  the same  as the  Alaska  Children's                                                            
Trust and it now  has about $9 million. He said that  the games need                                                            
about $200,000  every year because  the games cost between  $200,000                                                            
and $300,000 every two years and international dues are $25,000.                                                                
DAN SULLIVAN,  Development Director Arctic Winter  Games/Team Alaska                                                            
(AWGTA),  has been involved  with the  games for  over 30 years  and                                                            
strongly supports  SB 93. AWGTA is a non-profit corporation  that is                                                            
trying  to  develop  a  guaranteed  revenue  source  to  ensure  the                                                            
viability and longevity of the event.                                                                                           
Over 40 communities send  athletes to the games and all winter games                                                            
are  included.   There  are  many   well-known  Alaskans   who  have                                                            
participated in  the games. There is one paid employee  and numerous                                                            
volunteers  working for AWGTA  and it is a  very efficient  and cost                                                            
effective  entity.  Every   two  years  300  or  more  athletes  are                                                            
assembled, uniforms are  purchased, travel is arranged and the games                                                            
are conducted.                                                                                                                  
MR. SULLIVAN  went on to describe  AWGTA as more than a non-profit.                                                             
He said that  it is actually `an entity  of the State of  Alaska and                                                            
therefore  should have  a stable  funding  source. If  the trust  is                                                            
properly endowed,  it would generate sufficient revenues  to finance                                                            
the future costs of Team  Alaska and provide revenue for host cities                                                            
when  it is  Alaska's turn  to  stage the  games.  It costs  between                                                            
$800,000 and $1  million every decade to fund the  host city.  It is                                                            
modeled after  the Alaska  Children's Trust  with monies managed  by                                                            
the Department of Revenue.                                                                                                      
Number 951                                                                                                                      
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT   asked  if   the  games  were  referenced   or                                                            
established in statute.                                                                                                         
MR.  SULLIVAN said  he believes  so  because they  were established                                                             
through the  Governor's office  and the Lieutenant  Governor  is the                                                            
official representative to the international committee.                                                                         
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT  said that there  would still have to  be annual                                                            
appropriations  of income back into  the trust so AWGTA would  still                                                            
need to come before the legislature every year.                                                                                 
MR. SULLIVAN  said yes, but  they would be  asking for the  earnings                                                            
from the trust and not a general fund appropriation.                                                                            
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT asked  for the reasoning for having this done in                                                            
state statute  rather than using a private lending  institution with                                                            
administration from the board of directors.                                                                                     
MR. SULLIVAN  said they wanted to  maintain the connection  with the                                                            
state  and  that  management  by  the  Department   of  Revenue  and                                                            
oversight by the legislature is advantageous.                                                                                   
SENATOR  PHILLIPS   said  that  the   governments  from   the  other                                                            
jurisdictions  are directly  involved in  supporting their  athletes                                                            
and AWGTA feels it is important  for the State of Alaska to show its                                                            
support as well.                                                                                                                
MR. SULLIVAN said that  in most of the Canadian provinces there is a                                                            
minister  of  sport  whose full  function  is  to  provide  athletic                                                            
opportunities  to  youths  in their  province  or  territory.  AWGTA                                                            
serves this function for the State of Alaska.                                                                                   
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT  asked whether economic models  have been run to                                                            
ensure that a $5 million  endowment would provide sufficient revenue                                                            
for not  only annual expenses  but also a  periodic 20 percent  draw                                                            
for the years that Alaska hosts the games.                                                                                      
MR. SULLIVAN  said they had. In a  given year they would  draw about                                                            
$150,000 for team purposes  so in an 8-year period there would be an                                                            
additional  $100,000 per year to go  into the account to  cover host                                                            
city expenses.                                                                                                                  
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT asked how they had accounted for inflation.                                                                 
MR. SULLIVAN  said that all  estimates in  their economic model  are                                                            
conservative  and that  account earnings  will  probably be  greater                                                            
than  5  percent.  If  the  trust  doesn't  have  sufficient   funds                                                            
available without  tapping principle  then it is the responsibility                                                             
of the host community to come up with the additional funds.                                                                     
SENATOR DAVIS  asked about host city local government  participation                                                            
every ten years.                                                                                                                
MR. SULLIVAN  said local governments  make a contribution  when they                                                            
host  the  games.   When  Anchorage  last  hosted   the  games,  the                                                            
municipality  gave  AWGTA  a $150,000  grant  and those  funds  were                                                            
returned to the municipality in full.                                                                                           
SENATOR PEARCE arrived.                                                                                                         
SENATOR DAVIS asked where international funds come from.                                                                        
MR.  SULLIVAN  said   John  Rodda,  Alaska  representative   to  the                                                            
international committee, could answer that type of question.                                                                    
GARY  MATHEWS,  board member  for  AWGTA,  said that  the  financial                                                            
issues facing  the non-profit are critical. This is  a very well run                                                            
organization  and he  urged the  committee to  move the legislation                                                             
Number 1463                                                                                                                     
JOHN RODDA has been involved  with the games for 27 years in various                                                            
capacities. Specifically,  Alaska is the only jurisdiction that must                                                            
look  for funding  on  a yearly  basis.  All  others have  full  and                                                            
ongoing government support.                                                                                                     
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT asked  whether  Mr. Rodda  understood that  the                                                            
legislation sets  up the trust but does not fund the  trust. He also                                                            
said that he doesn't believe  that Alaskan residents expect the same                                                            
level of support as that provided by the Canadian provinces.                                                                    
MR. RODDA  said  perhaps not,  but that  this is  an opportunity  to                                                            
support young  Alaskans. It's  a long-term  investment that  is well                                                            
intended and worthwhile.                                                                                                        
Number 652                                                                                                                      
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT  asked  whether  corporate   contributions  are                                                            
anticipated to fund the trust.                                                                                                  
MR. RODDA said  they have been involved  with corporations  for many                                                            
years and they will continue to solicit contributions.                                                                          
Number 1744                                                                                                                     
WENDELL  SHIFFLER,  northern  region international  member  for  the                                                            
Arctic  Winter  Games,  said  these  games  "provide   an  exciting,                                                            
international sporting  event and a lifetime learning experience for                                                            
residents north  of the 60th parallel." Participation  has increased                                                            
from three to nine jurisdictions,  from 600 to over 2000 members and                                                            
the games are now televised across the Arctic.                                                                                  
SB 93 will bring consistency  of support to the games that is needed                                                            
on an ongoing  basis. It will neither  take the place of  efforts to                                                            
gain private  financial  support nor  end the  practice of  athletes                                                            
contributing a  portion of the costs from their own  pocket. It will                                                            
however,  "establish a basis  of continuing  monetary commitment  by                                                            
the State of Alaska to support our youth in a positive way."                                                                    
PHYLLIS TATE,  AWGTA director, has been involved with  the games for                                                            
30 years as a parent, an  official and now as director. She strongly                                                            
supports  SB 93 because  sports  enhance self-esteem  and status  of                                                            
young  people  who may  not  otherwise have  enough  to  do to  keep                                                            
themselves productively  involved. She encouraged members to support                                                            
SB 93 thus establishing  an endowment trust for Arctic  Winter Games                                                            
Team Alaska.                                                                                                                    
Number 2017                                                                                                                     
SENATOR PHILLIPS showed framed medals from previous games.                                                                      
Number 2065                                                                                                                     
JIM POWELL, AWGTA board  member, said he would be brief because much                                                            
that he could  say had already been  covered in previous  testimony.                                                            
He said that  an economic report from  the 2000 Arctic Winter  Games                                                            
showed  that  host  city,  Whitehorse,  netted  5  million  Canadian                                                            
dollars from  the games. In 2006 when  Alaska hosts the games  there                                                            
is the same opportunity for a similar economic boost.                                                                           
He  emphasized that  the  cost of  the games  isn't  born solely  by                                                            
public  monies.  Rather,  it  is  a  three-way  participation   with                                                            
corporations,  the  State and  the athletes  all  contributing.  The                                                            
athletes  contribute one third  of the monies.  The original  vision                                                            
and intent of  the games was to bring Arctic regions  together for a                                                            
cultural  and sporting  exchange.  To  maintain this  vision,  there                                                            
needs to be more stability in financing.                                                                                        
His  final point  was  that many  communities  are affected  by  the                                                            
games. This  includes small communities,  statewide, that  would not                                                            
otherwise have  an opportunity "to  participate in such a  wonderful                                                            
cultural  and athletic event."  He wanted  members to remember  this                                                            
when making their decisions.                                                                                                    
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT said  that, as a general rule, there is a desire                                                            
to separate from state  government and its bureaucracy. With this in                                                            
mind,  he  wondered  why  AWGTA  wants  the  trust  set  into  state                                                            
MR. RODDA said that actually  it is the state that is the member and                                                            
that AWGTA  is the non-profit entity  that does the work.  The State                                                            
of Alaska  is a  founding member  and in  endowing  the trust  it is                                                            
saying that they are committed to the continuation of the games.                                                                
GARY MATHEWS said  that in attending the opening ceremonies  and the                                                            
games themselves,  it is  clear that the  athletes are representing                                                             
their  governments.   Lieutenant  Governor  Ulmer   was  present  in                                                            
Whitehorse, as  were Canadian premiers and other officials,  lending                                                            
a definite governmental presence.                                                                                               
Number 2336                                                                                                                     
SENATOR DAVIS  asked if anyone  could give  her the total amount  of                                                            
money given to AWGTA since inception.                                                                                           
SENATOR PHILLIPS thought it was about $225,000 every two years.                                                                 
MR.  RODDA  said that  was  a  close  estimate but  he  hasn't  ever                                                            
tabulated those figures.                                                                                                        
SENATOR  PHILLIPS  said  he thought  that  $100,000  per  year is  a                                                            
defensible average.                                                                                                             
SENATOR DAVIS  said that  it's a wonderful  program but she  doesn't                                                            
understand  why there's an  urgency to put  this into state  statute                                                            
when the non-profit  has been doing so well over the  30 plus years.                                                            
AWGTA is estimating  that the trust would need about  $5 million and                                                            
is modeled  after the Children's  Trust but  she remembers  when the                                                            
Children's Trust  was started and lay dormant for  years due to lack                                                            
of funding.  She thinks  that pulling  $5 million  from the  general                                                            
fund to fund the trust  will short other worthwhile programs such as                                                            
SENATOR PHILLIPS  said that one suggestion  to fund the trust  is to                                                            
use  the tobacco  settlement  monies and  another  is for  corporate                                                            
participation. It isn't  strictly state dollars but a consistent and                                                            
stable funding  source is  necessary for the  State to maintain  its                                                            
presence. The State of Alaska is viewed as a standard bearer.                                                                   
Number 2236                                                                                                                     
SENATOR DAVIS  said she's not against  the Arctic Winter  Games, she                                                            
believes   it's   a  wonderful   program   and   she   supports   it                                                            
wholeheartedly. Nonetheless,  she thinks it's unusual that AWGTA has                                                            
chosen this method rather that private funding.                                                                                 
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT asked  for additional  testimony and there  was                                                            
none. He  said that the  fiscal note says  zero but the explanation                                                             
points  out that  the referral  to finance  is needed.  As a  former                                                            
member of the  finance committee,  he suggested that projections  of                                                            
fund earnings, inflation and draws be provided to the committee.                                                                
He asked for the will of the committee.                                                                                         
SENATOR  HALFORD made  a motion to  move the  bill and accompanying                                                             
fiscal note from committee with individual recommendations.                                                                     
There were no objections so SB 93 was moved from committee.                                                                     
Number 2052                                                                                                                     
                     SCR  4-ALASKA TARTAN DAY                                                                               
DAN HENDERSON,  Alaska Highlanders  representative,  said that  most                                                            
Canadian provinces celebrate  April 6 as Tartan Day and in 1997, the                                                            
U.S. Congress  designated April 6 as Tartan Day as  well. The Alaska                                                            
Legislature has  proclaimed April 6 as Tartan Day  yearly since 1996                                                            
and SCR 4 seeks  to bring permanence  to the proclamation.  There is                                                            
no cost to the bill and there is no request for a paid holiday.                                                                 
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT  read  page  2  line  5    "…  numerous  Alaska                                                            
landmarks,  such as the one at Point  MacKenzie…" and asked  Senator                                                            
Phillips whether there  is something at Point MacKenzie or is it the                                                            
SENATOR PHILLIPS said Point MacKenzie is the landmark.                                                                          
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT said  the wording  should be,  "…such as  Point                                                            
MacKenzie…" striking the  words, "the one at". He made a motion that                                                            
those changes be made as Amendment #1. There were no objections.                                                                
SENATOR HALFORD made a  motion to move CS SCR 4 (STA) from committee                                                            
with individual recommendations.                                                                                                
There were no objections.                                                                                                       
Number 1861                                                                                                                     
                    SB  82-2001 REVISOR'S BILL                                                                              
PAM FINLEY,  revisor of statutes,  said HCR  5 is a "clean  up bill"                                                            
and suggestions  come from bill drafters,  the Executive  Branch and                                                            
the  general  public.  Policy  choices  and  political  issues  are,                                                            
understandably, avoided.                                                                                                        
She referred  to the State  Affairs CS for  the bill saying  that it                                                            
adds Section  21 and 23 to  the bill to  correct errors found  after                                                            
Legislative  Council had their meeting.  Section 23 gives  a special                                                            
effective  date of July 1  because the section  that it is  amending                                                            
doesn't take effect until July 1.                                                                                               
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT  asked whether those were new  sections added to                                                            
the bill and not problems with the original wording.                                                                            
MS. FINLEY said that is correct.                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT said  that his  staff had  conducted a  lengthy                                                            
sectional analysis,  checked all the statutory references  and found                                                            
"nothing  hidden."  He  noted that  there  was  a zero  fiscal  note                                                            
MS. FINLEY said she was pleased to hear that.                                                                                   
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT asked  for a motion to  adopt the Senate  State                                                            
Affairs version of the bill.                                                                                                    
SENATOR PHILLIPS made the motion to adopt CS SB 82 (STA).                                                                       
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT asked  for amendments  to the working  document                                                            
and there were none.                                                                                                            
SENATOR HALFORD asked for an explanation of section 3.                                                                          
MS. FINLEY said  that was the result of a mistake,  by a revisor, in                                                            
another  revisor bill.  "There were  two bills changing  the  end of                                                            
that spanned  reference, (AS 16.05.330-16.05.)  723. I think  it was                                                            
(AS 16.05.)  700 and there were other  ones added so it was  changed                                                            
to (AS  16.05.) 723  and there were  two sections  in the  revisor's                                                            
bill in which  that change to the  end of the spanned reference  was                                                            
made. The  first section  started out (AS  16.05.) 440 and  this one                                                            
started out (AS  16.05.) 330 and I think what happened  is they just                                                            
duplicated the change in  the second section. There was no intention                                                            
to change 440  to 330. I was concerned  that that might-because  330                                                            
actually  will  pick  up  the  fishing  licensing  fees.  So  I  was                                                            
concerned  that it might  actually,  even though  it was undoing  an                                                            
error, that it might change  something on the ground. I asked George                                                            
Utermohle, our  fish and game person, to look into  that and to talk                                                            
to the  Department of Fish  and Game about  it. Everyone now  seems.                                                            
satisfied that it will  not change anything." There is a memo in the                                                            
committee  packets  from Mr.  Utermohle  about the  aquatic  farming                                                            
triennial license.                                                                                                              
SENATOR HALFORD  asked about the next to last paragraph  in the memo                                                            
that reads,  "It is my conclusion  that an aquatic farming  activity                                                            
authorized by  a permit issued under AS 16.40 is not  subject to the                                                            
aquatic farming triennial  license and that a…" He asked whether "we                                                            
are doing what he says."                                                                                                        
MS. FINLEY  said yes, that in making  the change there is  no change                                                            
in law. What he's  saying now is "As the law stands  now, an aquatic                                                            
farming activity authorized  by a permit under 640 is not subject to                                                            
the triennial license that  is in, I believe it is, 330. By changing                                                            
from 440 to 330, we're not changing anything."                                                                                  
SENATOR HALFORD said, "He said it may be useful to amend 930."                                                                  
MS. FINLEY  said that  it is a  long and complicated  issue  but she                                                            
believes  he is saying  there was  an ambiguity  that arose  when AS                                                            
16.40.100-199  was enacted and it wasn't clear how  they interacted.                                                            
It is his opinion  that the amendment in the revisor's  bill doesn't                                                            
change anything.                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT asked  if that's  appropriate  for a  revisor's                                                            
MS. FINLEY  said no, she'd  rather have the  Department of  Fish and                                                            
Game deal with it.                                                                                                              
Number 1580                                                                                                                     
SENATOR HALFORD said that  partial fixes were being made and it came                                                            
from a revisor's bill.                                                                                                          
MS.  FINLEY  said it  is  her intention  to  fix  problems.  without                                                            
causing  other  harm. She  could  ask Fish  and  Game  if they  have                                                            
suggestions  on amending  AS 16.05.930(g)  but she  doesn't want  to                                                            
change anything that isn't necessary.                                                                                           
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT said there was no problem holding the bill.                                                                 
SENATOR HALFORD  commented that this is a situation  where "you pull                                                            
on a thread…"                                                                                                                   
SENATOR PHILLIPS  asked about the change from 19 to  18 years of age                                                            
on page 1 line 9.                                                                                                               
Number 544                                                                                                                      
MS. FINLEY  said that when the age  of minority was changed  from 19                                                            
to 18, AS 13.06.050(29)  wasn't amended and this takes  care of that                                                            
oversight.  When the uniform  probate code  definition was  enacted,                                                            
the age  of majority,  which was 19,  was put in;  later the  age of                                                            
majority was changed to  18 but the definition was not changed here.                                                            
Therefore,  if   you're  the  age  of  majority  you   shouldn't  be                                                            
considered a minor under the uniform probate code.                                                                              
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT  said he  wanted to  hold the  bill so  members                                                            
could  more thoroughly  read  and understand  the  memo from  George                                                            
Utermohle. It is also his intention to contact Fish & Game.                                                                     
SB 82 was held in committee.                                                                                                    
Number 1360                                                                                                                     
           HCR  5-UNIFORM RULES 20(A), 37, AND 49(A)(4)                                                                     
DENISE HENDERSON,  staff for  Representative  Kott, said that  HCR 5                                                            
adopts three changes.  Section 1 consolidates departments  and deals                                                            
with  department   name  changes   and  places  the  Department   of                                                            
Corrections  under the purview of  the Judiciary Committee.  Rule 37                                                            
in Section  2 deletes  the  carbon copy  rule because  it no  longer                                                            
applies.  Section 3,  Rule 49(a)(4)  deals with  special  concurrent                                                            
resolutions when  disapproval of an executive order  of the Governor                                                            
is  considered.  Wording changes  on  page 3  line  15 &  16 are  as                                                            
follows with new  text underlined and deleted text  bracketed: "This                                                            
resolution  must be considered  by a standing  (JOINT) committee  of                                                    
each house and may be…"                                                                                                     
SENATOR  PEARCE  offered  amendment  #1 on  page  3 line  16  adding                                                            
"meeting jointly" after the word "house".                                                                                       
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT  objected  to  the amendment  for  purposes  of                                                            
discussion then removed his objection.                                                                                          
SENATOR HALFORD observed  that the amendment makes it more difficult                                                            
to  accomplish  the goal  and  said that  adding  "meeting  jointly"                                                            
weakens the legislative branch.                                                                                                 
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT said  that his concern is that, depending on the                                                            
majorities  in the  houses  and the  governor's  party affiliation,                                                             
changing the language might  empower a single chairman to thwart the                                                            
intention  of  the legislature  and  the  executive order  would  be                                                            
SENATOR PEARCE didn't agree.                                                                                                    
TOM WRIGHT, staff to Representative  Porter, understood the concerns                                                            
but said  that there  are a  number of  things that  could stop  the                                                            
action other than  the committee chairs. The make  up of a committee                                                            
could  also   lend  itself  to  stopping   the  action.   Tam  Cook,                                                            
Legislative  Legal  Counsel, said  that, in  the  past, rather  than                                                            
having  a joint committee  meet,  a standing  committee met  jointly                                                            
with a standing committee  in the other body to consider the special                                                            
concurrent  resolution. Thus, adding  "meeting jointly" makes  sense                                                            
and conforms to past practices.                                                                                                 
SENATOR  HALFORD said  amendment #1  makes it a  bit more  difficult                                                            
while the house  version, as sent,  is easier and makes it  stronger                                                            
for the legislative branch.                                                                                                     
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT said  it is past practice because the word joint                                                            
is included.  As  worded,  the two  standing committees  could  meet                                                            
jointly but they aren't required to do so.                                                                                      
MR. WRIGHT  agreed and said  he and Ms.  Cook believe it  simplifies                                                            
the process.                                                                                                                    
CHAIRMAN  THERRIAULT asked  whether  Mr. Wright  thought adding  the                                                            
words "meeting jointly"  would short circuit the five day notice and                                                            
the entire time process.                                                                                                        
MR. WRIGHT  didn't  believe so,  that the  requirement  to have  the                                                            
previous Thursday and five day notice would still be in effect.                                                                 
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT said  that if that is so, he isn't sure there is                                                            
any efficiency  if the second house must still adhere  to the notice                                                            
MR. WRIGHT agreed saying the process would have to be followed.                                                                 
SENATOR PEARCE  said no, it would  be read across in each  house and                                                            
referred  by the presiding  officers; it would  then be noticed  and                                                            
there is a  joint meeting. "It doesn't  pass each house and  then go                                                            
to a joint  session, it would come  to the floor and be recommended                                                             
to the joint  session. It doesn't  have to pass the house  before it                                                            
comes there."                                                                                                                   
SENATOR  HALFORD  said  that language  in  The  Alaska Constitution                                                             
decides whether  provisions are effective or not.   This is a simple                                                            
provision and such provisions  are waived by simple majority action.                                                            
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT agreed with Senator Pearce.                                                                                 
SENATOR  HALFORD said that  the problem  is that  if a rule  says it                                                            
must be  heard in joint committee  then it  is raised as a  point of                                                            
order and the  point of order must  be answered. "If it says  it has                                                            
to  be considered  by a  committee  in each  house  then it  doesn't                                                            
matter  if it  is joint  or  separate  and "the  point  of order  is                                                            
clearly out of  order when it is raised but it's a  motion to defeat                                                            
the executive order."                                                                                                           
CHAIRMAN   THERRIAULT  said   adding  the   amendment  reduces   the                                                            
flexibility of the legislature.                                                                                                 
Amendment  #1, adding the  two words "meeting  jointly", is  offered                                                            
and there is objection to it. He asked for a roll call vote.                                                                    
SENATOR PEARCE withdrew  her amendment after Senator Davis asked for                                                            
more discussion before the roll call vote.                                                                                      
She  then  raised   the  question  of  placing  the  Department   of                                                            
Corrections under the purview  of the State Affairs Committee rather                                                            
than the Judiciary  Committee, as proposed, saying  that there isn't                                                            
much judiciary  business  in housing  prisoners.  She asked  whether                                                            
this discussion was raised in House committees.                                                                                 
MR. WRIGHT  said no, there wasn't  that discussion, but he  believes                                                            
that  the  assignment   to  Judiciary  is  because   of  parole  and                                                            
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT asked where the suggestion originated.                                                                      
Number 108                                                                                                                      
MR. WRIGHT said  that there was discussion with the  drafter and the                                                            
Speaker  who  thought   Judiciary  was  appropriate   and  Ms.  Cook                                                            
SENATOR PHILLIPS agreed with Senator Pearce's argument.                                                                         
SENATOR PEARCE  said that it could be useful to have  the department                                                            
assigned  to the  Judiciary  Committee  and  when projects  such  as                                                            
building  jails were  proposed there  could be a  referral to  State                                                            
Affairs.  This  would  give  the  presiding   officers  a  bit  more                                                            
SENATOR PEARCE  made a  motion that Department  of Corrections  move                                                            
from Judiciary Committee to State Affairs Committee.                                                                            
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT asked whether there were objections to the                                                                  
amendment to change the oversight of Department of Corrections to                                                               
the State Affairs Committees.                                                                                                   
Amendment #2 passed with no objections.                                                                                         
SENATOR PHILLIPS made a motion that SCS HCR 5 (STA) move from                                                                   
committee with individual recommendations.                                                                                      
SCS HCR 5 (STA) moved from committee with no objections.                                                                        
CHAIRMAN THERRIAULT adjourned the meeting at 5:10 p.m.                                                                          

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