Legislature(1993 - 1994)

03/30/1994 09:07 AM STA

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                SENATE STATE AFFAIRS COMMITTEE                                 
                         March 30, 1994                                        
                           9:07 a.m.                                           
  MEMBERS PRESENT                                                              
 Senator Loren Leman, Chair                                                    
 Senator Mike Miller, Vice Chair                                               
 Senator Robin Taylor                                                          
 Senator Jim Duncan                                                            
  MEMBERS ABSENT                                                               
 Senator Johnny Ellis                                                          
  COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                           
 SENATE BILL NO. 358                                                           
 "An Act relating to the existence and functions of certain multi-             
 member state bodies, including boards, councils, commissions,                 
 associations, or authorities; and providing for an effective date."           
 SENATE BILL NO. 357                                                           
 "An Act relating to certain study, publication, and reporting                 
 requirements by and to state agencies; relating to certain fees for           
 reports; and providing for an effective date."                                
 SENATE BILL NO. 365                                                           
 "An Act relating to the improvement of state finances and fiscal              
 accountability by increasing fees, by collecting additional                   
 revenue, by reducing certain program expenditures by changing                 
 services or eligibility requirements for programs, by changing                
 certain statutory limitation periods, by providing for use of                 
 certain electronic records, by making changes to state agency                 
 functions or procedures including certain reporting and planning              
 procedures, and by authorizing extensions for state leases for real           
 property if certain savings can be achieved; and providing for an             
 effective date."                                                              
 CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 315(JUD) am                                             
 "An Act relating to the unauthorized use of or unauthorized                   
 interference with transmission and delivery of subscription cable             
 services; and amending the definition of the offense of theft of              
 services and the penalties for its violation."                                
 CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 323(JUD) am                                             
 "An Act relating to requests for anatomical gifts and to the                  
 release of certain information for the purpose of facilitating                
 anatomical gifts."                                                            
 HOUSE BILL NO. 402                                                            
 "An Act requiring that an owner's motor vehicle liability insurance           
 policy used as proof of financial responsibility designate by                 
 description or appropriate reference the motor vehicles it covers;            
 and providing for an effective date."                                         
  PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION                                             
 SB 358 - No previous senate committee action.                                 
 SB 357 - No previous senate committee action.                                 
 SB 365 - No previous senate committee action.                                 
 HB 315 - No previous senate committee action.                                 
 HB 323 - See Health, Education & Social Services minutes dated                
 HB 402 - No previous senate committee action.                                 
 WITNESS REGISTER                                                              
 Kristie Leaf, Director                                                        
 Boards & Commissions                                                          
 Office of the Governor                                                        
 P.O. Box 110001, Juneau, AK 99811-0001¶465-3500                               
  POSITION STATEMENT:  prime sponsor of SB 358                                 
 George Smith, Deputy Director                                                 
 Libraries, Archives, & Museums                                                
 Department of Education                                                       
 P.O. Box 110571, Juneau, AK 99811-0571                                        
  POSITION STATEMENT:  in favor of SB 358                                      
 Arbe Williams, Special Assistant                                              
 Department of Labor                                                           
 P.O. Box 21149, Juneau, AK 99802-1149¶465-2700                                
  POSITION STATEMENT:  testified on SB 358                                     
 Senator Dave Donley                                                           
 State Capitol, Juneau, AK 99801-1182¶465-3892                                 
  POSITION STATEMENT:  testified on SB 358, SB 365, & HB 402                   
 Harry Gamble, Administrator                                                   
 Office of the Commissioner                                                    
 Department of Education                                                       
 801 W. 10th St., Suite 200, Juneau, AK 99801-1894¶465-2851                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:  testified on SB 358                                     
 Linda Rexwinkel, Budget Analyst                                               
 Division of Budget Review                                                     
 Office of Management & Budget                                                 
 P.O. Box 110020, Juneau, AK 99811-0020¶465-4694                               
  POSITION STATEMENT:  testified on SB 357                                     
 Sharon Barton, Director                                                       
 Division of Administrative Services                                           
 Department of Administration                                                  
 P.O. Box 110208, Juneau, AK 99811-0208¶465-2277                               
  POSITION STATEMENT:  testified on SB 357                                     
 Nancy Slagle, Director                                                        
 Division of Budget Review                                                     
 Office of Management & Budget                                                 
 P.O. Box 110020, Juneau, AK 99811-0020¶465-2178                               
  POSITION STATEMENT:  in favor of SB 365                                      
 Margot Knuth, Assistant Attorney General                                      
 Criminal Division                                                             
 Department of Law                                                             
 P.O. Box 110300, Juneau, AK 99811-0300¶465-3428                               
  POSITION STATEMENT:  testified on SB 365 and HB 315                          
 Juanita Hensley, Chief                                                        
 Driver Services                                                               
 Division of Motor Vehicles                                                    
 Department of Public Safety                                                   
 P.O. Box 20020, Juneau, AK 99802-0020¶465-4335                                
  POSITION STATEMENT:  testified on SB 365                                     
 Eric Musser, Aide                                                             
 Representative Porter                                                         
 State Capitol, Juneau, AK 99801-1182¶465-4930                                 
  POSITION STATEMENT:  prime sponsor of HB 315                                 
 Representative Cynthia Toohey                                                 
 State Capitol, Juneau, AK 99801-1182¶465-4919                                 
  POSITION STATEMENT:  prime sponsor of HB 323                                 
 Jens Saakvitne                                                                
 Life Alaska Inc.                                                              
 P.O. Box 230785, Anchorage, AK 99523¶562-5433                                 
  POSITION STATEMENT:  in favor of HB 323                                      
 Mark Johnson, Coordinator                                                     
 Emergency Medical Services                                                    
 Division of Public Health                                                     
 Department of Health & Social Services                                        
 P.O. Box 110616, Juneau, AK 99811-0616¶465-3027                               
  POSITION STATEMENT:  in favor of HB 323                                      
 Linda Giguere, Aide                                                           
 House Labor & Commerce Committee                                              
 State Capitol, Juneau, AK 99801-1182¶465-6827                                 
  POSITION STATEMENT:  prime sponsor of HB 402                                 
 Howard Jaeger                                                                 
 Shattuck & Grummett Insurance Agency                                          
 301 Seward St., Juneau, AK 99801¶586-2414                                     
  POSITION STATEMENT:  in favor of HB 402                                      
 John George                                                                   
 National Association of Independent Insurers                                  
 9515 Moraine Way, Juneau, AK 99801¶789-0172                                   
  POSITION STATEMENT:  in favor of HB 402                                      
  ACTION NARRATIVE                                                             
 TAPE 94-21, SIDE A                                                            
 Number 001                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN calls the Senate State Affairs Committee to order at           
 9:07 a.m.                                                                     
 Number 009                                                                    
 BODIES) as the first order of business before the Senate State                
 Affairs Committee and calls the first witness.                                
 Number 015                                                                    
 KRISTIE LEAF, Director, Boards & Commissions, Office of the                   
 Governor thanks the committee for hearing SB 358 and says the bill            
 is basically a governmental efficiency bill.  SB 358 will do                  
 several things: first, it will eliminate nine non-functioning                 
 boards; second, it streamlines procedures associated with the                 
 Alaska Labor Relations Agencies and the Board of Parole; third, it            
 eliminates the statutory Alaska School Activities Association                 
 (ASAA); and fourth, it eliminates the Museum Collections Advisory             
 Committee and transfers the committee's duties to the Department of           
 MS. LEAF mentions there were two sectional analysis' submitted to             
 the committee and there are zero fiscal notes accompanying SB 358.            
 Ms. Leaf states she would be happy to go over any changes in more             
 detail and answer any questions the committee might have.                     
 Number 047                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks Ms. Leaf what control the state will have over            
 the non-profit organization that will handle school activities                
 after ASAA is eliminated.  The chairman asks if the state will have           
 the ability to over-ride a policy decision by the board if the                
 state does not agree with the decision.                                       
 Number 062                                                                    
 MS. LEAF responds it is her understanding that the Board of                   
 Education will not be able to serve as the board of appeal for the            
 non-profit school activities association, and the board would have            
 to have a separate appeal.  The only relationship between the state           
 and the association would be that school districts would contract             
 with and belong to the association.  Ms. Leaf says Mr. Gamble from            
 the Department of Education could perhaps answer questions on ASAA.           
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks Ms. Leaf if the Board of Appeal would then, in            
 essence, be the school districts themselves.                                  
 MS. LEAF replies the association itself would need to set up a                
 board of appeal.  Ms. Leaf says since the association is a non-               
 profit organization and is not a state entity, the state could not            
 set up a board of appeal.                                                     
 Number 095                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks Ms. Leaf if the changes dealing with the Board            
 of Parole in SB 358 are different from the changes relating to the            
 Board of Parole in another piece of legislation currently being               
 worked on.                                                                    
 Number 101                                                                    
 MS. LEAF responds the changes in SB 358 are the same as changes               
 addressed in the other piece of legislation.  It is simply a                  
 safeguard to include that language in both bills.                             
 Number 110                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks if there are further questions.  The chairman             
 notes the committee now has a quorum.  The chairman asks the                  
 pleasure of the committee regarding SB 358.  The chairman calls the           
 next witness.                                                                 
 Number 122                                                                    
 GEORGE SMITH, Deputy Director, Libraries, Archives, & Museums,                
 Department of Education gives the committee some background history           
 on the Museum Advisory Committee on Acquisitions.                             
 MR. SMITH states that currently, the acquisitions committee is                
 overseeing a very limited acquisitions budget.  The entire                  
 acquisitions budget for the museum is about 50,000$.  Approximately           
 half of that money is spent on acquisitions over 1,000$, and so               
 would be overseen by the acquisitions committee.  The expenses for            
 the required travel of the committee, as well as services and                 
 supplies, is 6,000$ per year.  Staff support time equals an                   
 additional 16,000$.  So about 22,000$ per year is being spent to              
 oversee an acquisitions budget of about 25,000$.                              
 MR. SMITH states the Division of Libraries, Archives & Museums                
 feels the internal controls in place now, make it virtually                   
 impossible for inappropriate acquisitions or deaccessions to occur.           
 For a safeguard, SB 358 stipulates any acquisition or deaccession             
 with a value over 1,000$ would require the signature of the                   
 commissioner of the Department of Education.  Mr. Smith states the            
 Department of Education favors passage of SB 358.                             
 Number 204                                                                    
 SENATOR TAYLOR asks why the provisions for the Museum Advisory                
 Committee on Acquisitions should be left in statute, merely                   
 changing "committee" to "commissioner" and "department".  Why not             
 simply repeal the provisions and allow the commissioner to handle             
 acquisitions and disposals.                                                   
 MR. SMITH replies that would be an acceptable alternative.                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN calls the next witness.                                        
 Number 225                                                                    
 ARBE WILLIAMS, Special Assistant to the Commissioner, Department of           
 Labor states section 10 of SB 358 addresses a concern of the Alaska           
 Labor Relations Agency.  At this time, the law requires that when             
 a Railroad Labor Relations case is at impasse, the person who                 
 previously served as mediator, then serves as arbitrator.  At this            
 point, the Alaska Labor Relations Agency uses the Federal Mediation           
 and Conciliation Service in labor negotiations.  However, the                 
 charter of the Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service                     
 stipulates that mediators cannot serve as arbitrators.  The                   
 Department of Labor would like state statute changed to eliminate             
 the requirement that the mediator of a case serves as arbitrator              
 when a case reaches impasse.                                                  
 Number 255                                                                    
 MS. WILLIAMS addresses amendment #1 to SB 358.  The Department of             
 Labor asks that an amendment be made to the Alaska Worker's                   
 Compensation Act, expanding the Alaska Worker's Compensation Board            
 from five panels to six panels.  The department feels this is part            
 of a solution to the critical problem facing the board.  In 1983              
 the state was sued because it did not meet the statutory                      
 requirements for issuing decisions and orders, which is thirty                
 days.  The state lost that case and had to pay 250,000$.  Right               
 now, forty-four decisions and orders are not issued within the                
 required thirty day time frame.  The Department of Labor has                  
 received serious inquiries from prominent employee attorneys asking           
 for statistical information on the Alaska Worker's Compensation               
 Board response record.  The department sees another impending class           
 action suit.  An increase from five panels to six has a zero fiscal           
 note and would simply serve to speed up the hearing and review                
 process.  There is zero fiscal impact because the panels would not            
 be meeting more frequently, they would simply be meeting sooner.              
 Number 290                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN says it is his intent to hold SB 358 and pick up               
 amendment #1 in a committee substitute.  The chairman asks if there           
 is anyone else who wishes to testify on SB 358.  Hearing none, he             
 states the committee will set it aside until the committee has a              
 Number 306                                                                    
 SENATOR DONLEY states he is concerned with allowing school boards             
 to delegate their authority to a non-profit group to make policy              
 decisions.  In the past, the final decision came back to the state.           
 If that authority is delegated to a non-profit to avoid the                   
 responsibility of those decisions, where do voters get                        
 Number 319                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN states he is concerned with that also, and the                 
 Blomfield case comes to his mind.  ASAA said they could not do what           
 Blomfield wanted because it went against their bylaws.                        
 Number 325                                                                    
 SENATOR DONLEY adds Blomfield appealed through the process and were           
 told by the Department of Education that the rules were being                 
 changed by pending legislation and Blomfield would have to start              
 the process all over again with the new group.                                
 SENATOR TAYLOR asks where in SB 358 it refers to the Blomfield                
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN replies SB 358 does not refer directly to Blomfield,           
 but deletes any reference to the Alaska Student Activities                    
 Association (ASAA) because that group is now functioning as a non-            
 profit organization.                                                          
 The section of SB 358 referring to ASAA is section 11.                        
 Number 337                                                                    
 SENATOR DONLEY states SB 358 was the excuse given by the Department           
 of Education for not ruling on the appeal by Blomfield.                       
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks if there is anyone from the Department of                 
 Education who can respond to this.                                            
 Number 342                                                                    
 HARRY GAMBLE, Administrator, Commissioner's Office, Department of             
 Education says in 1987 the legislature removed the Alaska School              
 Activities Association from the Department of Education's budget.             
 In its place, ASAA filed articles of incorporation.  At that time,            
 ASAA began acting independently of statutes and of the department.            
 The only connection between the department, the State Board of                
 Education, and ASAA was that the State Board of Education continued           
 to serve as the appeals review commission for students looking for            
 waivers to the rules of ASAA.                                                 
 MR. GAMBLE says that the Department of Education now has an opinion           
 from the Attorney General saying that ASAA and ASAA Inc. are two              
 very separate and distinct bodies.  ASAA Inc. is an entity not                
 addressed in statute and over which the state has no control.  In             
 the view of the Department of Education, the Blomfield case is not            
 an appealable issue.  That is something that would have gone to the           
 court.  Blomfield seeks relief from one of the rules of ASAA which            
 requires students who participate in interscholastic activities to            
 attend the school for which they compete.                                     
 Number 376                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks Mr. Gamble to clarify whether it is ASAA or               
 ASAA Inc. which is no longer in existence.                                    
 MR. GAMBLE clarifies he meant to say ASAA ceases to exist.                    
 Number 379                                                                    
 SENATOR DONLEY wants to know why Blomfield wasn't told that the               
 Department of Education was not the proper place to appeal.                   
 Blomfield was in fact told the Department of Education was the              
 proper place to appeal to by ASAA Inc and by the Anchorage School             
 Number 383                                                                    
 MR. GAMBLE replies the State Board of Education did inform these              
 people that this was something that was not appealable to the State           
 Board of Education.  He does not know what ASAA Inc. told them.               
 SENATOR DONLEY states the Board of Education did not tell them it             
 was not the proper place to appeal until after Blomfield had                  
 already appealed and waited for months and months.                            
 MR. GAMBLE says he is trying to recall that issue, and is not sure            
 what ASAA Inc. told anyone.  He says he thinks the Blomfield's                
 asked ASAA Inc. to change the rule.                                           
 Number 390                                                                    
 SENATOR DONLEY says ASAA Inc. told the Blomfield's the rule                   
 couldn't be changed without approval from the State Board of                  
 Education.  When the Blomfield's went to the Board of Education,              
 the board said they would not deal with the issue because they were           
 waiting for pending legislation to pass.                                      
 Number 395                                                                    
 MR. GAMBLE says a regulation was approved by the State Board of               
 Education that would have changed the ASAA bylaws to allow students           
 from private, correspondence, or homeschools to participate in the            
 activities of public schools.  The board conducted hearings and               
 decided there was to much opposition from the public schools to               
 proceed.  In the meantime, the board also received the opinion from           
 the Attorney General's Office saying ASAA Inc. was separate and               
 distinct from the state, and the board did not have control over              
 that body.                                                                    
 Number 404                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks Senator Donley if it is his opinion that                  
 passing SB 358 would do a disservice to Blomfield and people                  
 similarly situated.                                                           
 Number 405                                                                    
 SENATOR DONLEY thinks the Blomfields were denied due process based            
 on anticipated legislative action.  Senator Donley thinks the                 
 legislature should send the Board of Education a really clear                 
 message that they will not be an excuse for the board denying the             
 Blomfields due process.                                                       
 Number 408                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks Senator Donley if he is suggesting that the               
 section relating to ASAA not be deleted at this time, and that it             
 will perhaps be deleted at a future time when they have done their            
 Number 412                                                                    
 SENATOR DONLEY says that would be his request at this point.  He              
 does not think it is fair to someone who has gone all the way                 
 through the process, done everything they were told to do by state            
 government, and then when they reach the end, they are told that              
 their problem will not be dealt with because the legislature is               
 going to change the rules.                                                    
 Number 420                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN comments that in this particular case, the only                
 thing that happened was that the woman bringing the case happened             
 to have sufficient resources to be able to bring the case.  He has            
 read the case, and he thinks Ms. Blomfield has been mistreated                
 throughout the whole process.                                                 
 Number 424                                                                    
 SENATOR TAYLOR asks if there is a way to take care of the Blomfield           
 situation and still accomplishing what the Department of Education            
 wants to accomplish.                                                          
 SENATOR DONLEY says he would be open to that, and perhaps the                 
 department could make a recommendation.                                       
 Number 430                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks Mr. Gamble if there is anything the legislature           
 could do to assist in solving this problem.                                   
 Number 435                                                                    
 MR. GAMBLE responds the Blomfield case is not driving the desire to           
 repeal the statutes relating to ASAA.  The department would have to           
 think about the chairman's question.  Perhaps something can be done           
 in statute to require schools that join a private non-profit to               
 have that association allow private school students to participate            
 in public school activities.                                                  
 Number 443                                                                    
 SENATOR DONLEY says that is a policy decision that there would have           
 to be many hearings on.  His problem with SB 358 is it was used as            
 an excuse to not resolve the Blomfield case.  Blomfield was                   
 entitled to a yes or no answer.  Instead of an answer, they were              
 told that the legislature was going to take it away from the                  
 department's authority, so then the department wouldn't have to               
 deal with it.  So Blomfield has wasted thousands of dollars and all           
 this time, and the legislature was given as the excuse.                       
 Number 455                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks Ms. Leaf where the reference to ASAA is in                
 section 11 of SB 358.                                                         
 MS. LEAF responds it is in AS 14.07.058 and 059.                              
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN says the committee will move on to the next bill on            
 the calendar.                                                                 
 Number 463                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN brings up SB 357 (REQUIRED REPORTS OF STATE                    
 AGENCIES) as the next order of business before the Senate State               
 Affairs Committee.  The chairman calls the first witness.                     
 Number 470                                                                    
 LINDA REXWINKEL, Analyst, Division of Budget Review, Office of                
 Management & Budget (OMB) states SB 357 is the culmination of a               
 study by OMB.  OMB worked with departments to identify annual                 
 reports which were either duplicative and unnecessary, or could be            
 amended to a biennial, rather than an annual report.                          
 MS. REXWINKEL states the committee has been provided with a                   
 sectional analysis of the bill.  That analysis identifies bill                
 section, statute citation, a brief summary of the report itself,              
 and the cost the departments believe is currently associated with             
 the production of that report.  SB 357 is seen as an efficiency               
 measure.  Zero fiscal notes accompany the bill.  Ms. Rexwinkel then           
 reviews the sectional analysis.                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks Ms. Rexwinkel about section 11, which deletes             
 the requirement that the Department of Military & Veteran's Affairs           
 (DMVA) submit a report.  The chairman asks if there is a provision            
 elsewhere requiring DMVA to submit a report.                                  
 MS. REXWINKEL responds it is her understanding that this reporting            
 requirement may have been in place when DMVA was a subset of the              
 Governor's Office.  Now it is a regular department, so the actions            
 and activities of that entity would now be covered in their regular           
 operating budget.  So having a separate report is extraneous.                 
 Number 500                                                                    
 SENATOR DUNCAN asks the reasoning behind section 11, making the               
 APOC (Alaska Public Offices Commission) report on lobbying a                  
 biennial report.  Senator Duncan asks what is in the annual report            
 from APOC regarding lobbyists.                                                
 Number 506                                                                    
 SHARON BARTON, Director, Division of Administrative Services,                 
 Department of Administration responds she is not familiar with the            
 content of the report, but the logic behind making the report                 
 biennial is that the APOC staff is small, and the information in              
 the report is generally available at all times.  A biennial report            
 would relieve the staff's workload burden.                                    
 Number 520                                                                    
 SENATOR DUNCAN says he is concerned because the report is not just            
 a report to the legislature, but is also a report to the public.              
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN adds perhaps the APOC report on the legislature                
 should be biennial also.                                                      
 SENATOR DUNCAN says the reason for APOC's existence is public                 
 Number 528                                                                    
 SENATOR TAYLOR says the only persons interested in APOC's reports             
 are the newspapers.  Perhaps we should just report the information            
 directly to the newspapers and save money.                                    
 Number 530                                                                    
 SENATOR DUNCAN says he is concerned with section 11, and is not               
 sure the APOC's report on lobbying should be changed to a biennial            
 Number 532                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN states he had planned to hear SB 357 today, and                
 perhaps move the bill next Wednesday.  That will give the committee           
 a chance to become familiar with the bill.                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks if, relating to the language under section 31             
 deleting the requirement to report to the legislature every year on           
 medical assistance, that information is made available in some                
 other place.                                                                  
 MS. REXWINKEL replies that information can be found in the                    
 department's regular operating budget, so the reporting requirement           
 is duplicative.                                                               
 Number 549                                                                    
 SENATOR DUNCAN is concerned with item 4, page 4 of the sectional              
 analysis, which states,                                                       
  "Repeals the annual reporting requirement by APOC to publish                 
  copies of Conflict of Interest Statements to lobbyists to                    
  facilitate the filing of their reports.  Information is made                 
  available on an individual basis for lobbyists."                             
 MS. REXWINKEL responds the thought behind that item is that the               
 Department of Administration and APOC felt that the information was           
 already available, rather than going through the time and expense             
 of publishing a report.  Lobbyists can simply ask questions as                
 needed, which would save the department time and effort.                      
 SENATOR DUNCAN asks Ms. Rexwinkel to clarify that this provision              
 would not stop the publishing of a disclosure report.                         
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN replies this provision would make information                  
 available to lobbyists to help them with the filing of their                  
 SENATOR DUNCAN states if that's what the provision would do, he no            
 longer has a concern with it.  He would only be concerned if it               
 halted the publishing of a report of disclosure to the public.                
 MS. REXWINKEL states she will follow up on Senator Duncan's concern           
 to make sure it would not affect the publishing of a report of                
 disclosure to the public.                                                     
 Number 569                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks if there are further questions for Ms.                    
 Rexwinkel.  The chairman asks if anyone else wishes to testify.               
 Hearing none, he announces the committee will set SB 357 aside and            
 take up again on Wednesday.                                                   
 Number 574                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN brings up SB 365 (GOVERNOR'S OMNIBUS BILL) as the              
 next order of business before the Senate State Affairs Committee.             
 The chairman calls the first witness.                                         
 Number 576                                                                    
 NANCY SLAGLE, Director, Division of Budget Review, Office of                  
 Management & Budget (OMB) states SB 365 would increase fees and               
 reduce expenses wherever practicable in state government.  A                  
 sectional analysis which briefly explains each of the sections was            
 provided to the committee...                                                  
 TAPE 94-21, SIDE B                                                            
 MS SLAGLE says she can either walk the committee through the                  
 sectional analysis or answer specific questions.                              
 Number 581                                                                    
 SENATOR TAYLOR wants to know why non-mutual collateral estoppel               
 against the state is abolished, but is ok against all other                   
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks that collateral estoppel be defined.                      
 MS. SLAGLE responds it has to do with a decision that has been made           
 in one district, and whether that decision would apply to a similar           
 case in another district.  Ms. Slagle states it is her                        
 understanding that the Department of Law believes disallowing non-            
 mutual collateral estoppel against the state could be an extensive            
 cost-saving measure.                                                          
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks if there is anyone from the Department of Law             
 present who could speak to the question.                                      
 Number 557                                                                    
 MARGOT KNUTH, Assistant Attorney General, Criminal Division,                  
 Department of Law states the Civil Division in the Department of              
 Law is involved in this issue as well, and it would probably be               
 good for the committee to hear from someone in that division as               
 MS. KNUTH replies, in answer to Senator Taylor's question, the                
 state is probably the one party involved in the greatest number of            
 lawsuits throughout the State of Alaska.  The state loses a number            
 of cases, and the way the state decides whether or not to appeal a            
 case is if it can live with the decision in that particular case.             
 There are all sorts of adverse decisions against the state which              
 the state does not feel it is important to appeal.  It may be a               
 small case, or perhaps the state even feels that the right result             
 for that individual was reached in that decision.  Probably under             
 appeal, it would be concluded that the legal analysis by the court            
 was unsound.  But if the state needs to appeal every adverse                  
 decision, even in the smallest case, because the state would not be           
 able to live with that decision being applied to a different,                 
 perhaps multi-million dollar case, would cause the state's                    
 litigation to skyrocket.  The state would need a lot more                     
 attorneys, both in the civil side and the criminal side.  The State           
 of Alaska is uniquely situated; there is no other party in the                
 State of Alaska sued as often as the state.                                   
 Number 538                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks Ms. Knuth about the language in SB 365                    
 overriding the decision of the court in the State v. UCIDA (United            
 Cook Inlet Drift Association) and what would be the effect of that.           
 MS. KNUTH responds she is vaguely familiar with that case.  It was            
 a supreme court decision that said the court was now going to start           
 applying collateral estoppel against the State of Alaska.  She does           
 not recall the specifics of the case, but could have someone from             
 the Civil Division available for the committee.                               
 Number 532                                                                    
 SENATOR TAYLOR states collateral estoppel is not a new doctrine,              
 but merely a new application by the supreme court of collateral               
 estoppel.  He states there must be a lot of commonality between two           
 cases for collateral estoppel to be applied to the present case.              
 Number 519                                                                    
 MS. KNUTH replies that is exactly the problem that was created by             
 Number 512                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks what section 14, extending temporary vehicle              
 permits from 30 days to 60 days, would accomplish.                            
 Number 505                                                                    
 JUANITA HENSLEY, Chief, Driver Services, Division of Motor                    
 Vehicles, Department of Public Safety says section 14 would allow             
 the department to issue 60 day temporary vehicle licenses.  The               
 reason for this is many times people aren't able to get title to              
 the car within 30 days.  This keeps that person from having to come           
 back in to get a second 30 day permit when the first expires.                 
 Number 490                                                                    
 SENATOR TAYLOR asks about the section that would repeal the statute           
 relating to proof of motor vehicle liability insurance in the case            
 of an accident; why would we want to repeal that statute.                     
 Number 484                                                                    
 SENATOR DONLEY notes that sections 18 through 26 deal with motor              
 vehicle liability insurance.                                                  
 Number 480                                                                    
 MS. HENSLEY responds section 18 increases the amount of damage from           
 500$ to 1500$.  The information the department has received from              
 the insurance industry and the Division of Insurance indicates the            
 average claim is about 1600$.  Police departments are not able to             
 investigate minor property damage accidents due to budgetary                  
 constraints.  Section 18 would simply increase the dollar amount              
 required to be reported.                                                      
 Number 465                                                                    
 SENATOR TAYLOR comments what this section would do is raise the               
 ceiling of when an accident would have to be reported.                        
 Number 458                                                                    
 MS. HENSLEY states people driving without insurance would have                
 their driver's licenses suspended if they were in an accident with            
 a damage total of over 1500$, instead of a limit of 500$.                     
 Number 450                                                                    
 SENATOR TAYLOR says part of what the state is trying to pick up               
 with mandatory reporting of accidents with damage of 500$ or over             
 is people driving with suspended or revoked driver's licenses.                
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN comments that simply scratching the finish on a car            
 can cost 1500$.                                                               
 MS. HENSLEY says that is very true, and sometimes breaking a tail             
 light on a car can be 1500$.                                                  
 Number 429                                                                    
 SENATOR DONLEY states that at the time mandatory auto insurance               
 legislation was passed, there was a decision made not to require              
 proof of insurance up front.  One of the selling points for that              
 was to raise registration fees to pay for a program where people              
 would have to show proof of insurance if they were in an accident.            
 It was a "check" to make sure people were getting insurance.  If we           
 now weaken the "check" we have, it removes one of the arguments for           
 not having proof up front.                                                    
 Number 417                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks Ms. Hensley how many more accidents would slip            
 through the system if the state changes from mandatory reporting              
 for accidents from 500$ damage to 1500$ damage.                               
 Number 414                                                                    
 MS. HENSLEY replies she really does not have that information.                
 Number 410                                                                    
 SENATOR TAYLOR says he would like to get back to public safety                
 concerns.  He is concerned with section 43 because it would repeal            
 that portion relating to proof of motor vehicle liability insurance           
 in the case of an accident.                                                   
 Number 405                                                                    
 MS. HENSLEY states that is not correct.  The repealer section in AS           
 28.22.041 would allow a person to come back within a period of time           
 and submit proof that they purchased insurance after the fact.  Ms.           
 Hensley says she would have to read the statute to explain exactly            
 what it would do, but it does not repeal the mandatory insurance              
 law at all.  It just takes out one paragraph which is a loophole.             
 SENATOR DONLEY says he did not understand that explanation at all.            
 SENATOR TAYLOR says he was confused too.                                      
 Number 395                                                                    
 MS. SLAGLE responds that section 23 and 24 of SB 365 deal with the            
 sections concerning proof of motor vehicle liability insurance.               
 Those sections are not repealed from statute.                                 
 SENATOR DONLEY asks why AS 28.10.108 (b) should be deleted.                   
 MS. HENSLEY replies AS 28.10.108 (b) deals with allowing commercial           
 vehicles to have a rotating registration period, as do private                
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN notes that the committee is operating with time                
 constraints today, and asks that members perhaps review their                 
 concerns about SB 365 between today and next Wednesday.                       
 Number 374                                                                    
 SENATOR TAYLOR says that he will just list his concerns for the               
 department and they can then be taken up Wednesday.  He has a                 
 significant concern with section 12, which would change the method            
 of notification for cancellation, suspension, or revocation of                
 driver's licenses from certified mail to first class mail.  He                
 thinks police officers should go out and personally serve the                 
 notices and cut the license plates off the damn car at the same               
 time.  By not sending the letter certified mail, the state cannot             
 even prove in court that the notice was received.                             
 SENATOR TAYLOR's second concern is all the additional fees that the           
 Department of Public Safety is asking for.  He wants to know how              
 the department is currently handling SR22's.  Who is responsible              
 for maintaining those records?                                                
 Number 334                                                                    
 MS. HENSLEY replies the Department of Public Safety is basically              
 not going to change any of the operation of how SR22's are handled,           
 or how suspension of driver's licenses for uninsured motorists are            
 handled.  The only thing changing, is the department will not be              
 issuing suspension notices for those individuals involved in                  
 accidents where the damages are between 500$ and 1,500$.                      
 MS. HENSLEY states the mandatory insurance law has worked.  Before            
 the law, the uninsured motorist rate was about 21%.  In 1985, that            
 rate went down to 7.7%.  It has slowly risen over the years, and is           
 now at about 11.9%.  The department has not been excluded from the            
 budget cuts of the last several years, and has fewer employees                
 today.  One of the things the committee should be aware of is that            
 the house budget caps have cut out the financial responsibility               
 program entirely from the department's budget.  If that budget goes           
 through, the Department of Public Safety will not be suspending any           
 driver's licenses for failure to prove financial responsibility.              
 Number 311                                                                    
 SENATOR TAYLOR asks Ms. Hensley what happened to the revenue stream           
 created in 1985 by the mandatory insurance laws.  That revenue                
 stream was intended to support those positions.                               
 MS. HENSLEY responds the Division of Motor Vehicles brings 29                 
 million dollars per year to the general fund, while at the same               
 time receiving a budget of 7.9 million dollars.  That money goes to           
 the general fund and is not coming back to DMV.                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR asks if Ms. Hensley knows why that money is not                
 coming back to DMV.  He asks, if we add all these new fees, won't             
 they also go into the general fund?  Senator Taylor says he is                
 fascinated to hear that is what is happening to DPS's budget on the           
 house side, and he will do what he can to correct that.                       
 Number 277                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks personnel from DEC to be prepared to address              
 the committee regarding the section of SB 365 that relates to them            
 at Wednesday's hearing.  The chairman announces that, in the                  
 interest of time, the committee will hold SB 365 until Wednesday's            
 Number 266                                                                    
 as the next order of business before the Senate State Affairs                 
 Committee.  The chairman calls the first witness.                             
 Number 251                                                                    
 ERIC MUSSER, Aide to Representative Porter, states HB 315 defines             
 theft of cable services and sets out penalties for the unauthorized           
 use or reception of cable transmission.  HB 315 deals primarily               
 with illegal converter boxes.  At this time, the existing theft of            
 services statute is very broad and makes theft of cable services              
 Number 226                                                                    
 SENATOR TAYLOR asks, since estimation of loss is based upon a                 
 certain percentage of the current revenues from subscription cable            
 service, that if cable companies are charging Alaskans rates 700%             
 to 1000% higher for the same level of service found any place else            
 in the United States, that means the actual loss would maybe be               
 150,000$ to 200,000$, and not 1,000,000$ estimated in the sponsor's           
 statement.  What we're really talking about are people who are                
 ripping off the cable companies who are currently ripping us off.             
 SENATOR TAYLOR wants to know how he could amend the bill to allow             
 other people to go into the cable business.                                   
 Number 194                                                                    
 MR. MUSSER responds he doesn't think that subject would fit under             
 the title of HB 315.  However, the public utility commission                  
 extension legislation will be coming to the senate soon, and that             
 has in place some changes and would provide a vehicle for that                
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN states the Senate State Affairs Committee has                  
 changed the title in other house legislation, and would not be                
 opposed to doing it a second time.  The chairman asks Ms. Knuth               
 from the Department of Law if she has anything to add.                        
 Number 185                                                                    
 MARGOT KNUTH, Assistant Attorney General, Criminal Division,                  
 Department of Law says, in response to Senator Taylor's comments,             
 that the cable company has assured the Department of Law that they            
 are passing on their losses to existing consumers.  Although, when            
 asked in a prior committee if they would reduce their monthly                 
 subscription rates if they are not sustaining these losses any                
 more, they indicated they needed time to respond to that question.            
 MS. KNUTH states that, from a prosecution perspective, the benefit            
 of this legislation is that it will identify theft of cable                   
 services by the consumer as the class A misdemeanor offense,                  
 regardless of the actual monetary value of the loss.  So the                  
 prosecution will not need to calculate how many months the theft of           
 services has been occurring.  Ms. Knuth thinks a class A                      
 misdemeanor offense is appropriate to the crime.  At this time, the           
 prosecutor must know exactly what the value of the theft of                   
 services was; this bill will take that part of the guessing game              
 out of the equation.                                                          
 MS. KNUTH states entrepreneurial activity relating to theft of                
 cable services will be a class C felony, which also seems to be an            
 appropriate classification.  She expects this legislation to have             
 a more noticeable deterrent effect than what is usually seen in               
 crime bills.  This is the type of prosecution, where, if it occurs            
 three or four or five times in Anchorage, the word is going to get            
 out.  The Department of Law expects to see a noticeable drop in               
 theft of services.  The Department of Law supports the bill and Ms.           
 Knuth would be glad to answer any questions.                                  
 Number 152                                                                    
 SENATOR MILLER asks if a renter hooks up a television and is not              
 himself paying for the cable service, if that is theft of service.            
 Number 149                                                                    
 MS. KNUTH replies that is not theft of service.  To be engaged in             
 theft of service, the person must engage in knowing conduct that              
 can be proven.  If a person is in a situation where they reasonably           
 believe their landlord is providing this service as a part of the             
 rental, the necessary mental state for this offense is not there.             
 If there comes a point at which the renter figures out that the               
 landlord probably isn't paying for the cable service, and the                 
 renter continues to take advantage of the service, there is a line            
 somewhere that might get crossed.  However, it is fairly common for           
 landlords to provide cable service to apartments.                             
 Number 134                                                                    
 SENATOR MILLER asks how the bill would apply to people who only               
 have one converter box, but their house is wired for more than one            
 MS. KNUTH replies that is not considered theft of service either.             
 There was technical language in HB 315 that, at one point, made it            
 sound as though that situation would be theft of service.  But the     e    
 bill has been redrafted to clearly exclude that situation.  Now,              
 under federal regulations, if a person buys one subscription, it no           
 longer matters how many outlets a person has in their home.                   
 Number 121                                                                    
 SENATOR TAYLOR asks if there are any laws relating to theft of                
 MS. KNUTH responds there should be laws relating to theft of                  
 SENATOR TAYLOR states the cable companies that used to operate in             
 his area would have someone sit in a motel room in Seattle, record            
 the programs on television, then send the tapes to Alaska.                    
 Subscribers in his area paid through the nose for this service.               
 Senator Taylor wants to know if that shouldn't be illegal, since              
 they were pretty much participating in theft of service also.                 
 Senator Taylor believes it should be a class A felony for cable               
 operators involved in the stealing of talent.                                 
 Number 088                                                                    
 MS. KNUTH says she would have to look into that question.                     
 Number 086                                                                    
 MR. MUSSER adds that area of discussion was raised in previous                
 committees.  There is a distinct difference between someone                   
 receiving a direct signal directly from a satellite transmission,             
 and an individual using a device designed to receive a signal from            
 a cable company.                                                              
 Number 073                                                                    
 SENATOR TAYLOR says the Alaska Marine Highway System used to show             
 movies to people.  The companies who owned the rights to those                
 movies informed the state that, because passengers were charged a             
 fee to be on board, showing those movies was part of the commercial           
 enterprise of transporting passengers.  As a consequence, the state           
 would have to pay those companies a fee for showing movies.                   
 Senator Taylor asks Ms. Knuth if she can get back to the committee            
 on the issue of stealing talent.                                              
 Number 038                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN says the committee will not be moving HB 315 today.            
 He appreciates the comments.                                                  
 Number 034                                                                    
 INFO) as the next item before the Senate State Affairs Committee.             
 The chairman calls the prime sponsor to testify.                              
 Number 027                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE CYNTHIA TOOHEY, prime sponsor of HB 323, reads the             
 sponsor statement for the bill.                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY states tissue donation to improve the quality           
 of another's life is a consolation for those who have lost loved              
 TAPE 94-22, SIDE A                                                            
 Number 001                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY states HB 323 would allow tissue and organ              
 donation facilities to obtain the pertinent information from the              
 Department of Health & Social Services within the required time               
 frame, allowing for successful donation.  Representative Toohey               
 reviews the process by which donation will occur.                             
 REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY states the Alaska Medical Association, the              
 Department of Health & Social Services, and the court systems are             
 strongly supportive of this legislation.  HB 323 has two zero                 
 fiscal notes, and passage in the House of Representatives was                 
 unanimous.  Representative Toohey introduces Mr. Saakvitne and Mr.            
 Number 033                                                                    
 JENS SAAKVITNE, Director of Life Alaska, states that Life Alaska is           
 a non-profit tissue procurement agency based in Alaska and serving            
 Alaskans.  Mr. Saakvitne states that Alaska had 13 organ donors in            
 1993.  During that same time period, Alaska had a total of 87                 
 tissue donors.  Those 87 tissue donors supplied tissue for 223                
 transplants for Alaskans.  There were approximately an additional             
 1,000 transplants that took place outside the State of Alaska.  All           
 tissue that is donated through Life Alaska is offered first to                
 Alaskans, before being released outside the state.                            
 MR. SAAKVITNE states there have been eighteen donors so far in                
 1994.  He says even when a donor card exists, Life Alaska would               
 support the wish of the family, if the family did not want to make            
 a donation.  During a recent three day weekend when there was one             
 donation made, there were an seven additional deaths of young                 
 persons that Life Alaska never learned about until it was too late            
 for a donation to be made.   So the intent of HB 323 is to create             
 fuller, and in some cases, more rapid communication between the               
 coroner's office and Life Alaska.                                             
 MR. SAAKVITNE states similar tissue donation programs are in place            
 in Colorado, California, Texas, Florida, Missouri, and Ohio.  He              
 believes there may be other states with tissue donation programs of           
 which he is not aware.  He was personally involved with the                   
 Colorado program for about eleven years.  He is not aware of any              
 complaints from families that have been contacted for donation.               
 Only trained people contact families for donations.  Mr. Saakvitne            
 states he has taught family approach on a national basis.  He                 
 describes a typical contact to the committee.  Life Alaska has put            
 some families in contact with crisis intervention, victim's for               
 justice, and sent out vast amounts of bereavement literature to               
 grieving families.  This support from Life Alaska continues,                  
 regardless of what a families decision may be regarding donation.             
 We would like to take steps through this legislation to make sure             
 most families are at least given the option to make a donation.               
 Number 125                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks Mr. Saakvitne if any donations would ever be              
 made from fetal tissue.                                                       
 Number 130                                                                    
 MR. SAAKVITNE responds no donations would ever be made from fetal             
 tissue.  Donations are made from full-term birth and on.  There               
 have been donations from several babies who were only a few weeks             
 old.  He does not see Life Alaska ever being involved in fetal                
 tissue donation, either currently or in the future.                           
 Number 142                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks Mr. Saakvitne if, in that case, it would not              
 hurt Life Alaska's mission if the committee were to clarify that in           
 the legislation.                                                              
 Number 145                                                                    
 MR. SAAKVITNE replies it would only hurt Life Alaska's mission                
 insofar as to slow down the legislation.                                      
 Number 148                                                                    
 SENATOR TAYLOR expresses concern that donor cards attached to                 
 driver's licenses do not appear to be working.                                
 Number 152                                                                    
 MR. SAAKVITNE responds donor cards are currently not found in most            
 cases, even though there are laws that state hospitals, law                   
 enforcement, and medical personnel are supposed to check for donor            
 cards.  In practice, that very rarely happens.  What a donor card             
 does frequently do, is bring the issue to discussion in a family.             
 Technically, donor cards are a legal document, and Life Alaska                
 could go ahead and take donations based on the donor card, if the             
 existence of the card is known.  In point of fact, Life Alaska does           
 try to make it a family decision.                                             
 Number 166                                                                    
 SENATOR TAYLOR states he has a donor card affixed to his Alaska               
 Driver's License, and is frustrated to hear the donor card system             
 is not working as it should be.                                               
 Number 185                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY asks Senator Taylor to realize that organs              
 have to be removed from a living body, while tissue can be removed            
 within 24 hours after death.  That is the difference between organ            
 donation and tissue donation.  Tissue is very valuable, especially            
 small children's heart valves, bones, and corneas.  HB 323 relates            
 primarily to tissue donation.                                                 
 MR. SAAKVITNE states that, until two years ago, there was no tissue           
 donation option unless a person was also an organ donor.  This has            
 changed, but it will be a long term educational process, on which             
 Life Alaska is really working.                                                
 Number 210                                                                    
 SENATOR TAYLOR states that information released from the coroner is           
 what will trigger the donation process.                                       
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks Mr. Johnson from the Department of Health &               
 Social Services to testify.                                                   
 Number 218                                                                    
 MARK JOHNSON, Coordinator, Emergency Medical Services, Division of            
 Public Health, Department of Health & Social Services states the              
 department supports HB 323, as does the Alaska Council on Emergency           
 Medical Services.  Mr. Johnson believes, with the new medical                 
 examiner system, that this process will work much better in the               
 future than it has in the past.                                               
 Number 235                                                                    
 SENATOR TAYLOR asks Mr. Johnson to explain how HB 323 will change             
 MR. JOHNSON replies, under current statutes there are                         
 confidentiality requirements that make it more difficult to give              
 information to Life Alaska.  This will relieve the coroner's office           
 of those requirements.                                                        
 Number 242                                                                    
 SENATOR TAYLOR states those requirements are that the coroner                 
 notify next of kin.  He asks if the coroner would be able to notify           
 Life Alaska even before it has notified next of kin.                          
 Number 256                                                                    
 MR. SAAKVITNE responds they could, but it has been Life Alaska's              
 agreement and wish that Life Alaska not be given the information              
 until a family has been contacted.  That would be his worst                   
 SENATOR TAYLOR adds Life Alaska's phone call could be the next of             
 kin's first phone call, that is what he was getting at, and that              
 would be really rough.                                                        
 MR. SAAKVITNE states currently, the only information he receives              
 from the coroner's office is name and time of death.                          
 SENATOR TAYLOR states notification of family members is not a                 
 simplistic thing.  One doesn't just make a phone call, especially             
 when dealing with older persons who might not be able to handle the           
 stress of hearing of the death of their child.  Senator Taylor                
 foresees potential problems with the press hounding Life Alaska for           
 Number 299                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks if there was a reason HB 323 does not have an             
 immediate effective date.                                                     
 (Apparently, there is no particular reason HB 323 does not have an            
 immediate effective date.)                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN announces HB 323 will be held so the committee can             
 do some work on it.                                                           
 Number 305                                                                    
 as the next order of business before the Senate State Affairs                 
 Committee.  The chairman calls the first witness.                             
 Number 314                                                                    
 LINDA GIGUERE, Aide to Representative Hudson and the House Labor &            
 Commerce Committee, states HB 402 was introduced at the request of            
 the Alaska Independent Insurance Agents Association.  Ms. Giguere             
 reads the sponsor statement for HB 402.                                       
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN calls the next witness.                                        
 Number 349                                                                    
 HOWARD JAEGER, Shattuck & Grummett Insurance Agency, states HB 402            
 would correct a problem that has arisen with SR22 drivers, and                
 perhaps make it more economical and workable for the insurance                
 Number 355                                                                    
 SENATOR TAYLOR thinks the situation HB 402 attempts to solve is               
 good, and that HB 402 should not be passed.  Senator Taylor thinks            
 policies should cover drivers, not cars.                                      
 Number 367                                                                    
 MR. JAEGER responds he thinks the problem is, historically                    
 insurance has been sold on a per vehicle basis.                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR interjects that is so the insurance companies can              
 charge a person for a new policy every time.  Europe, Canada, and             
 Australia do not handle insurance in that manner.                             
 MR. JAEGER replies that if perhaps the whole industry were to                 
 change, that could be done.  It is done that way to so that                   
 agencies could figure out the amount of risk they were looking at             
 and how to arrive at an exposure of the potential for loss.                   
 SENATOR TAYLOR comments he thinks the insurance industry is                   
 currently utilizing two standards upon which to determine premiums            
 at this time.                                                                 
 MR. JAEGER says if a person is a preferred driver, that person will           
 be charged the same liability rate for a corvette or a chevette,              
 but would be charged different damage rates.                                  
 Number 404                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN does not know if Mr. Jaeger's last comment is                  
 correct, because he is charged different liability rates on several           
 of his vehicles.  He shares some of Senator Taylor's concerns.                
 Number 418                                                                    
 SENATOR TAYLOR states he likes this bill.                                     
 SENATOR DONLEY says Senator Taylor cannot do what he wants to do              
 with HB 402 under the present title, because it addresses SR22                
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN calls the next witness.                                        
 Number 431                                                                    
 JOHN GEORGE, National Association of Independent Insurers says he             
 will try to answer some of the questions that have been asked                 
 today.  He believes there is one company that will write an                   
 operator policy, as opposed to a vehicle policy.  However, if a               
 person who has coverage on themselves loans their car to another              
 person, that car is not insured.  If the person who is loaned the             
 car has a traditional insurance policy, that would cover them while           
 driving any vehicle, so their coverage would cover the vehicle                
 borrowed from someone who had an operator's policy.  Traditionally,           
 though, insurance follows the vehicle.  Anyone driving that vehicle           
 is covered, unless of course, the vehicle was stolen.                         
 MR. GEORGE states that the problem the insurance companies have, is           
 they are required to file a form with the Division of Motor                   
 Vehicles, using DMV's wording, saying, "No matter what vehicle this           
 person is driving, he is covered."  So this person insures his 1956           
 volkswagen, and also drives an 18-wheeler, professionally.  So the            
 insurance company just insured the liability insurance on an 18-              
 wheeler if that person has an accident and does not have other                
 SENATOR TAYLOR asks if he is covered while driving a rental car.              
 SENATOR DONLEY replies he is covered.                                         
 SENATOR DONLEY adds there is a huge other side to this story.  He             
 says he went to the house to testify on HB 402 and was not allowed            
 to testify and present the other side of the story.  He makes a               
 special request to the committee that if the bill is brought back             
 up in committee it be specifically listed in the committee                    
 schedule.  He would very much like the opportunity to present his             
 testimony to the Senate State Affairs Committee.                              
 Number 468                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN says he will put it in the committee schedule at               
 least 24 hours in advance of the hearing, and will give Senator               
 Donley a call also.                                                           
 MS. GIGUERE notes that Senator Donley testified on HB 403 in the              
 House Labor & Commerce Committee.                                             
 Number 475                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN adjourns the Senate State Affairs Committee meeting            
 at 11:16 a.m.                                                                 

Document Name Date/Time Subjects