Legislature(1993 - 1994)

03/28/1994 09:10 AM STA

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
                SENATE STATE AFFAIRS COMMITTEE                                 
                         March 28, 1994                                        
                           9:10 a.m.                                           
                                                                               
  MEMBERS PRESENT                                                              
                                                                               
 Senator Loren Leman, Chair                                                    
 Senator Mike Miller, Vice Chair                                               
 Senator Robin Taylor                                                          
 Senator Jim Duncan                                                            
                                                                               
  MEMBERS ABSENT                                                               
                                                                               
 Senator Johnny Ellis                                                          
                                                                               
  COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                           
                                                                               
 Alaska Public Offices Commission:                                             
  Confirmation: James I. Adams                                                 
                                                                               
 HOUSE BILL NO. 421                                                            
 "An Act authorizing grants for temporary housing assistance during            
 emergencies and disasters."                                                   
                                                                               
 CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 49(FIN) am                                              
 "An Act relating to absentee voting, to electronic transmission of            
 absentee ballot applications, to delivery of ballots to absentee              
 ballot applicants by electronic transmission, and enacting a                  
 definition of the term `state election' for purposes of absentee              
 voting; and providing for an effective date."                                 
                                                                               
 SENATE BILL NO. 302                                                           
 "An Act relating to the establishment, modification, and                      
 enforcement of support orders and the determination of parentage in           
 situations involving more than one state; amending Alaska Rule of             
 Administration 9; amending Alaska Rule of Civil Procedure 82; and             
 providing for an effective date."                                             
                                                                               
 CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 255(HES)                                               
 "An Act establishing a comprehensive policy relating to human                 
 resource development in the state."                                           
                                                                               
 CS FOR HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 43(FIN)                                     
 Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the State of Alaska             
 relating to the rights of crime victims.                                      
                                                                               
  PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION                                             
                                                                               
 HB 421 - See State Affairs minutes dated 3/23/94.                             
                                                                               
 HB 49 - See State Affairs minutes dated 3/23/94.                              
                                                                               
 SB 302 - See State Affairs minutes dated 3/21/94, and 3/23/94.                
                                                                               
 SB 255 - See Community & Regional Affairs minutes dated                       
          1/25/94, 2/1/94, 2/3/94, 2/8/94, and 3/16/94 and State               
          Affairs minutes dated 3/23/94.                                       
                                                                               
 HJR 43 - See Judiciary minutes dated 11/16/93 and State Affairs               
          minutes dated 3/9/94, 3/21/94, and 3/23/94.                          
                                                                               
  WITNESS REGISTER                                                             
                                                                               
 James I. Adams, Nominee                                                       
 Alaska Public Offices Commission                                              
 P.O. Box 594, Nome, AK 99762¶443-3444                                         
                                                                               
 Tim Sullivan, Aide                                                            
 Representative Mulder                                                         
 State Capitol, Juneau, AK 99801-1182¶465-2647                                 
  POSITION STATEMENT:  prime sponsor of HB 421                                 
                                                                               
 Joe Swanson, Director                                                         
 Division of Elections                                                         
 P.O. Box 110017, Juneau, AK 99811-0017¶465-4611                               
  POSITION STATEMENT:  in favor of HB 49                                       
                                                                               
 Portia Babcock, Aide                                                          
 Senate State Affairs Committee                                                
 State Capitol, Juneau, AK 99801-1182¶465-4522                                 
  POSITION STATEMENT:  testified on SB 302                                     
                                                                               
 Laraine Derr, Deputy Commissioner                                             
 Treasury                                                                      
 Department of Revenue                                                         
 P.O. Box 110400, Juneau, AK 99811-0400¶465-4880                               
  POSITION STATEMENT:  in favor of SB 302                                      
                                                                               
 Donna Page, Senior Hearing Officer                                            
 Department of Revenue                                                         
 P.O. Box 110400, Juneau, AK 99811-0400¶465-2330                               
  POSITION STATEMENT:  in favor of SB 302                                      
                                                                               
 John Mallonee, Deputy Director                                                
 Child Support Enforcement Division                                            
 Department of Revenue                                                         
 550 W. 7th, Suite 312, Anchorage, AK 99501-3556¶269-6800                      
  POSITION STATEMENT:  in favor of SB 302                                      
                                                                               
 Senator Dave Donley                                                           
 State Capitol, Juneau, AK 99801-1182¶465-3892                                 
  POSITION STATEMENT:  testified on HJR 43                                     
                                                                               
  ACTION NARRATIVE                                                             
 TAPE 94-20, SIDE A                                                            
 Number 001                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN calls the Senate State Affairs Committee to order at           
 9:10 a.m.  The chairman notes the committee does not yet have a               
 quorum, but will take testimony.                                              
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN brings up the APOC nomination of James I. Adams as             
 the first order of business.  The chairman calls Mr. Adams to                 
 testify.                                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 030                                                                    
                                                                               
 JAMES I. ADAMS, Nominee, Alaska Public Offices Commission (APOC),             
 testifying from Nome, states he has worked for the Department of              
 Transportation & Public Facilities and has worked as an engineer              
 for 27 years.  He is interested in serving on APOC in order to do             
 something for the state.                                                      
                                                                               
 MR. ADAMS says that in his line of work he has dealt with                     
 contractors on both federally and state funded projects.  He has              
 gained experience in administering these projects.  He hopes to               
 uphold the laws of the state.                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 070                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks Mr. Adams if he has had a chance to review the            
 proposed APOC regulations for enforcing the new ethics law.                   
                                                                               
 Number 079                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. ADAMS replies he received a five pound package in the mail last           
 week, but has not had a chance to get into it, though he hopes to             
 in the near future.                                                           
                                                                               
 Number 081                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN expresses a concern that the legislative intent of             
 the ethics law, which was to tighten up reporting, is being                   
 interpreted by APOC as a requirement to report sources and amounts     s    
 of income.  The chairman says the intent was just to report sources           
 and not amounts.  He thinks that is very far reaching and will have           
 a detrimental affect on recruitment of good people to become                  
 candidates for office.  Chairman Leman believes requiring the                 
 reporting of sources and amounts of income is in opposition to the            
 intent of the law.                                                            
                                                                               
 Number 113                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks Mr. Adams if he is a registered professional              
 civil engineer.                                                               
                                                                               
 MR. ADAMS responds he is not a registered engineer.                           
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks Mr. Adams if his position at DOT does not                 
 require registration.                                                         
                                                                               
 MR. ADAMS replies there are different job classes.  In some job               
 classes one can advance through the ranks.  For those who did go to           
 school and get the required paper, they are in another section.               
                                                                               
 Number 127                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN recalls that APOC is made up of four members from              
 political parties and one member who is non-partisan.  The chairman           
 asks Mr. Adams which category he seeks to fill.                               
                                                                               
 MR. ADAMS says, as he understands it, the four main board members             
 of the two parties just nominate someone who represents five.                 
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks Mr. Adams what party he is affiliated with.               
                                                                               
 MR. ADAMS responds he likes to see who's running before he decides            
 who to vote for.                                                              
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks Mr. Adams what his party registration is.                 
                                                                               
 MR. ADAMS replies he really hasn't, but he would probably lean                
 democratic.                                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 145                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN thanks Mr. Adams and asks if there are any further             
 questions.  Hearing none, the chairman announces the committee will           
 move to the next subject.                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 155                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN calls a brief at ease.                                         
                                                                               
 Number 156                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN brings up HB 421 (GRANTS FOR HOUSING DURING                    
 DISASTER) as the next order of business before the Senate State               
 Affairs Committee.  The chairman calls a representative of the                
 prime sponsor to testify.                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 159                                                                    
                                                                               
 TIM SULLIVAN, Aide to Representative Mulder, says HB 421 was                  
 introduced by the House Special Committee on Military & Veteran's             
 Affairs at the request of the State Division of Emergency Services,           
 Department of Military & Veteran's Affairs.  Mr. Sullivan reads               
 Representative Mulder's sponsor statement on HB 421.                          
 Number 179                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks if anyone in the audience wishes to testify on            
 HB 421.  The chairman asks the pleasure of the committee.                     
                                                                               
 Number 188                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR MILLER makes a motion to discharge HB 421 from the Senate             
 State Affairs Committee with individual recommendations.                      
                                                                               
 Number 190                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN, hearing no objection, orders HB 421 released from             
 committee with individual recommendations.                                    
 Number 191                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN brings up HB  49 (ABSENTEE VOTING & USE OF FAX) as             
 the next order of business before the Senate State Affairs                    
 committee.  The chairman notes the existence of a committee                   
 substitute that incorporates some of the changes that were                    
 suggested at the last meeting.                                                
                                                                               
 Number 198                                                                    
                                                                               
 JOE SWANSON, Director, Division of Elections says the change made             
 in the committee substitute requires the division to make receipt             
 of faxes received under HB 49.                                                
                                                                               
 Number 202                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR MILLER makes a motion to adopt SCS CSHB 49(STA) in lieu of            
 CSHB 49(FIN) AM.                                                              
                                                                               
 Number 204                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN, hearing no objection, notes the committee                     
 substitute has been adopted in lieu of CSHB 49(FIN) AM.  The                  
 chairman asks if anyone in the audience wishes to testify, or if              
 there is any discussion among committee members.                              
                                                                               
 Number 209                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR MILLER makes a motion to discharge SCS CSHB 49(STA) from              
 the Senate State Affairs Committee with individual recommendations.           
                                                                               
 Number 211                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN, hearing no objection, orders HB 49 released from              
 committee with individual recommendations.                                    
 Number 215                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN brings up SB 302 (UNIFORM INTERSTATE FAMILY SUPPORT            
 ACT) as the next order of business and asks that representatives              
 from the Department of Revenue join the committee at the table.               
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN announces the committee has a committee substitute             
 that incorporates about four changes that the Alaska Family Support           
 Group suggested.  The chairman states it is his understanding that            
 the Department of Revenue has no objection to the changes.                    
                                                                               
 Number 227                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR MILLER makes a motion to adopt CSSB 302(STA) in lieu of the           
 original bill.                                                                
                                                                               
 Number 229                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN, hearing no objection, notes the committee                     
 substitute has been adopted in lieu of the original bill.  The                
 chairman asks Ms. Babcock to review the changes to SB 302.                    
                                                                               
 Number 239                                                                    
                                                                               
 PORTIA BABCOCK, Committee Aide, Senate State Affairs Committee asks           
 the representatives of the Department of Revenue if they met with             
 Mr. Kirk of the Alaska Family Support Group.                                  
                                                                               
 LARAINE DERR, Deputy Commissioner, Department of Revenue says the             
 department met with Mr. Kirk, but there is only one change the                
 department agreed on with Mr. Kirk.  The change was on page 13,               
 line 17.  The change involved non-disclosure of information in                
 exceptional circumstances.  Ms. Derr says Mr. Kirk suggested other            
 changes, but the department did not agree with him that those                 
 changes needed to be made.                                                    
                                                                               
 DONNA PAGE, Senior Hearing Officer, Department of Revenue says the            
 department didn't necessarily disagree with Mr. Kirk, but the                 
 change on page 13 was the only change the department felt had to be           
 made.  The department didn't have an opinion one way or the other             
 on most of Mr. Kirk's concerns, because his concerns did not affect           
 the agency.                                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 256                                                                    
                                                                               
 MS. BABCOCK states the first change is on page 4, lines 24 and 25.            
 it would add language stating a tribunal may dismiss a case for               
 improper venue.                                                               
                                                                               
 The Department of Revenue has no position on that change.                     
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks Ms. Page if she can enlighten the committee as            
 to the meaning of "improper venue."                                           
 Number 280                                                                    
                                                                               
 MS. PAGE responds Mr. Kirk's concern was that this jurisdictional             
 statement was very broad.  Mr. Kirk wanted to agency to have the              
 right to dismiss a case for improper venue.  If no party of a                 
 support order lives in the state, the state does not really have              
 any interest in the case.                                                     
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks if that change would do any disservice to the             
 bill.                                                                         
                                                                               
 MS. PAGE does not think it would.  The act is intended to have the            
 child support order in the state where someone involved in the                
 order lives, so that it can be enforced.                                      
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks if there is any discussion among committee                
 members.                                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 291                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR says he is concerned about the use of the term                 
 "tribunal".  It is being used to describe both an agency of the               
 executive branch, and the court system.  He thinks it is dangerous            
 to recognize a state agency as a tribunal, and would hope that                
 agency would not have the same powers and authorizations that a               
 superior court would have.                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 300                                                                    
                                                                               
 MS. PAGE responds the bill was purposely written to include the               
 administrative agency as a tribunal.  The administrative agency as            
 tribunal can only do what is already authorized by law.  This would           
 solve a problem by having the administrative agency operate under             
 the same laws the court system operates under, insofar as having              
 one child support order, one time, and one place.  Right now, the             
 agency is part of the problem.  People move to Alaska, and Alaska             
 starts a new support order, even though there may be an existing              
 support order in their home state.  You then find obligors having             
 a child support order they're paying on in Alaska, and another                
 state attaching their income tax return, because the other state              
 does not know there is an existing child support order in Alaska.             
                                                                               
 Number 325                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks if there are any objections to this change.               
 The chairman asks Ms. Babcock to move on to the second change.                
                                                                               
 Number 327                                                                    
                                                                               
 MS. BABCOCK states the next change is on page 13, line 16, insert:            
 "..upon a finding by the court."                                              
                                                                               
 MR. MALLONEE notes the committee substitute does not say                      
 "...finding by the court", but "...finding by the tribunal".                  
                                                                               
 MS. BABCOCK says the original bill just stated "...upon a finding."           
 She thinks the legislative drafter must have decided to use the               
 term tribunal.  The insertion was supposed to read, "...upon a                
 finding by the court."                                                        
                                                                               
 Number 354                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR says he continues to have a problem understanding              
 how we can take the enforcement branch of government, which is                
 often the initiating party (CSED), and call them a tribunal.                  
 Unless this is being mandated by federal law, he does not find that           
 attractive thinking.  Would anyone in the room like the legislature           
 to do the same thing with the District Attorney's Office, or the              
 Internal Revenue Service?  Shall we give them the power of being a            
 tribunal?                                                                     
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks Senator Taylor if he is speaking in favor of an           
 amendment.                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR thinks an amendment would be appropriate to at least           
 designate the court.                                                          
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks if the department has any response to changing            
 "...upon a finding by the tribunal.", to "...upon a finding by the            
 court."                                                                       
                                                                               
 Number 379                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. MALLONEE states the department has no objection to that one               
 change.  In response to Senator Taylor's remarks, he says that                
 where a tribunal is referred to in SB 302, it does specify that the           
 tribunal has only those powers as otherwise dictated in statute.              
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR says he is uncomfortable with the existing power               
 CSED has to modify outstanding orders, based upon abilities to do             
 things, as far as service requirements are concerned, that were               
 significantly streamlined just for CSED.  He does not think CSED              
 should have but about half the authority they do.  Judges should be           
 involved in the process.  CSED is there for one purpose: it's there           
 to enforce support orders.  It's not there to listen to people who            
 have lost their job and have been out of work for four months.                
 It's there to enforce support orders, and they will zealously do              
 that, if they've got to go out and take your income tax, take your            
 permanent fund, take 50% of whatever you're earning, even though              
 you're current on your support, and then apologize later.  Those              
 are the calls Senator Taylor receives from constituents.                      
                                                                               
 Number 400                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR DUNCAN asks if SB 302 has been referred to Judiciary.                 
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN responds SB 302 is going to the Judiciary Committee.           
                                                                               
 SENATOR DUNCAN tells Senator Taylor to relax.                                 
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR says he is just concerned with the tendency to                 
 empower an agency over the court system.                                      
                                                                               
 Number 405                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR MILLER makes an amendment to page 13, line 16, to                     
 substitute the word "court" for the word "tribunal".                          
                                                                               
 Number 407                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks if everyone understands that amendment, and if            
 there is any objection to the amendment.  Hearing none, the                   
 chairman notes that the amendment has been adopted.  The chairman             
 asks Ms. Babcock to review the third change.                                  
                                                                               
 Number 411                                                                    
                                                                               
 MS. BABCOCK states the next change is on page 13, line 22,                    
 eliminate subsection (b), leaving (a) and (c).                                
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks if someone from the Department of Revenue could           
 explain what that change would do.                                            
                                                                               
 Number 417                                                                    
                                                                               
 MS. PAGE replies this change affects the superior court, and the              
 department does not have a position on the change one way or the              
 other.  It would allow the court to assess fees against an obligor.           
 Mr. Kirk's objection was that subsection (b) didn't allow the                 
 assessment of fees against an obligee (the custodial parent).                 
                                                                               
 Number 423                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN summarizes that by deleting subsection (b), the                
 playing field would be leveled.                                               
                                                                               
 Number 425                                                                    
                                                                               
 MS. PAGE adds that the court currently only assesses fees in child            
 support cases, as a rule, when they feel one side or the other has            
 not been cooperative and is acting in bad faith.                              
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks Ms. Page that, by deleting subsection (b), the            
 legislature would not be changing existing policy.                            
                                                                               
 MS. PAGE responds that is correct.                                            
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks if there is any objection to that change.                 
 Hearing none, the chairman notes the change has been adopted.  The            
 chairman asks Ms. Babcock to review the fourth change for the                 
 committee.                                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 430                                                                    
                                                                               
 MS. BABCOCK states the fourth change is on page 21, line 1, adding            
 language, "...except to the extent that a party was reasonably                
 unable to respond."                                                           
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks if the department has any comment on that                 
 change.                                                                       
                                                                               
 Number 446                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. MALLONEE says the only thing that bothers him about that change           
 is it would leave CSED wide open to a number of discussions over              
 long periods of time about what is "...reasonably unable to                   
 respond."                                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 449                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks what the current CSED guidelines are regarding            
 that subject.                                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 452                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. MALLONEE replies that at this time, it is a simple matter of              
 responding to a notice within the allowable given time frame for              
 that particular notice.  He thinks there needs to be language                 
 giving the department indication as to what is reasonable.  That              
 type of subjective language makes it very difficult for                       
 interpretation.  What Mr. Mallonee considers reasonable may not be            
 considered reasonable by another person.  He thinks it is going to            
 be time consuming for CSED to figure out what the definition of               
 reasonable might be.  He thinks reasons for not responding in a               
 timely manner should be quantified in the bill.                               
                                                                               
 Number 461                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks Mr. Mallonee if there is currently discretion             
 on the part of CSED to waive time requirements for responding to              
 notices if a person has good reason for not responding within the             
 allowable time period.                                                        
                                                                               
 Number 464                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. MALLONEE responds CSED regularly re-hears cases when a person             
 does not respond in a timely manner.                                          
                                                                               
 MS. PAGE adds that hearing officers will make adjustments if                  
 justice requires it.  However, not all cases reach the formal                 
 hearing level.                                                                
                                                                               
 MR. MALLONEE points out that all cases have the right and the                 
 opportunity for a formal hearing.                                             
                                                                               
 Number 475                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR comments he is concerned with the language on page             
 20, line 30, "...precludes further contest of the order...."   He             
 thinks that language would preclude any appeals.                              
                                                                               
 MS. PAGE agrees, saying if it came to her as an appeals officer,              
 she would have to follow the statute.  Ms. Page affirms that is not           
 the case today.                                                               
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR says that it then is a major change.                           
                                                                               
 Number 494                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks why having this language in SB 302 is                     
 necessary.  The chairman asks if it is part of UIFSA.                         
                                                                               
 Number 495                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. MALLONEE replies the whole bill came out of the standard UIFSA            
 legislation put out by the Uniform Law Commissioners.  He thinks              
 that language is intended to require timely contestation of support           
 orders.  Why wasn't the order contested within the time period                
 allowed?                                                                      
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR states he can answer that question.  The obligor has           
 to go hire an attorney, he's already behind, CSED is already taking           
 every dime he has, he's trying to support a new family, and he's              
 been out of work for a while.  Then CSED says, "Why didn't he                 
 assert the support order?"  Because the obligor is not given free             
 counsel, though the obligee is given free counsel.  Senator Taylor            
 comments he would not have so much problem supporting SB 302 if               
 there was any kind of balance to the process.  Dealing with CSED is           
 like dealing with the IRS.                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 520                                                                    
                                                                               
 MS. PAGE points out that the language Senator Taylor is referring             
 to applies to a child support order from another state.  This                 
 simply gives Alaska the right to enforce an order from another                
 state.                                                                        
                                                                               
 Number 529                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR says he understands that, and wants to give an                 
 example of why he does not think that is good language.  A                    
 prosecutor in Oregon decided to zealously prosecute non-paying                
 obligors in child support cases.  This prosecutor decided to                  
 prosecute those cases which would fall under felony violations.  As           
 a district court judge, Senator Taylor says he received a 50,000$             
 felony warrant on a Wrangell resident.  Why?  Because this man has            
 not paid support for his five children for seven years.  This man             
 happened to live across the street from Senator Taylor, and his               
 five kids had been living with him that whole period of time.  This           
 man's ex-wife had been lying to the welfare people.  Would this               
 language preclude this man from coming forward to contest the child           
 support claim?                                                                
                                                                               
 MS. PAGE responds that the obligor would always have the                      
 opportunity to respond, as long as they act in a timely manner.               
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR comments that is assuming the obligor gets his mail.           
                                                                               
 Number 546                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN suggests to Senator Taylor that he either offer an             
 amendment at this time, or work on the language when it gets to the           
 Judiciary Committee.  The chairman makes a motion to delete                   
 "...except to the extent that a party is reasonably unable to                 
 respond."  The chairman asks if there is any objection to that                
 amendment.  Hearing none, he notes the language has been deleted.             
 The chairman asks if there is any more discussion on SB 302.                  
                                                                               
 Number 559                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR MILLER makes a motion to discharge SB 302 from the Senate             
 State Affairs Committee with individual recommendations.                      
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR objects to that motion, and says he thinks the work            
 should be done in the State Affairs Committee.                                
                                                                               
 Number 561                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN, hearing the objection, states last time Senator               
 Taylor offered to work on an amendment, he failed to do so.  The              
 chairman says he would be happy to discuss an amendment if Senator            
 Taylor cares to offer one.                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks for a show of hands on whether to discharge SB
 302 from the State Affairs Committee.  The motion carries three to            
 one, and so SB 302 is discharged from the Senate State Affairs                
 Committee.                                                                    
 Number 379                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN calls a brief at ease.                                         
                                                                               
 Number 591                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN brings up SB 255 (STATE POLICY ON HUMAN RESOURCE               
 DEVELOPMT) as the next order of business before the Senate State              
 Affairs Committee.  The chairman explains that the committee                  
 substitute incorporates language to encourage people to start their           
 own businesses, as well as training to work for someone else.                 
                                                                               
 TAPE 94-20, SIDE B                                                            
                                                                               
 Number 596                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR MILLER makes a motion to adopt CSSB 255(STA) in lieu of the           
 original bill.                                                                
                                                                               
 SENATOR DUNCAN and SENATOR TAYLOR ask the chairman to explain the             
 bill.                                                                         
                                                                               
 Number 588                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN replies that on page 1, line 9, the language,                  
 "...and business community" was inserted.  The same term was                  
 inserted on page 2, line 10.  Subsection (d) was also clarified and           
 shortened.                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks if there is any objection to the adoption of              
 the cs.                                                                       
                                                                               
 Hearing none, the chairman notes that the cs has been adopted.                
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks the pleasure of the committee                             
                                                                               
 Number 567                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR MILLER makes a motion to discharge SB 255 from the Senate             
 State Affairs Committee with individual recommendations.                      
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR objects, and asks what SB 255 will accomplish.                 
                                                                               
 Number 564                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN says he has come to the same conclusion as Senator             
 Taylor and is not sure the bill will do very much.                            
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR withdraws his objection.                                       
                                                                               
 Number 554                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN, hearing no further objection, orders SB 255                   
 released from committee with individual recommendations.                      
 Number 551                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN brings up HJR 43 (RIGHTS OF CRIME VICTIMS) as the              
 next order of business before the Senate State Affairs Committee.             
 The chairman notes the existence of a committee substitute.                   
                                                                               
 Number 544                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR MILLER makes a motion to adopt SCS CSHJR 43(STA) in lieu of           
 CSHJR 43(FIN).                                                                
                                                                               
 Number 542                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN, hearing no objection, states the cs has been                  
 adopted in lieu of CSHJR 43(FIN).  The chairman notes the presence            
 of Eric Musser from the office of Representative Porter, the prime            
 sponsor of HJR 43.  The chairman invites Senator Donley to testify.           
                                                                               
 Number 524                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY expresses concern that it would not be wise to pass            
 victim's rights as a constitutional amendment.  This is a totally             
 new area of the law.  With new developments in the law, there is              
 frequently a lot of litigation and a lot of judicial time being               
 spent interpreting these developments.  Senator Donley thinks it is           
 best to develop a baseline of statutory laws before passing a                 
 constitutional amendment.  The caveat added by the house on page 2,           
 line 9, is simply not sufficient to prevent judicial expansion of             
 the intent of the constitutional amendment.                                   
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY says the senate version of this constitutional                 
 amendment has much stronger language deferring to the statutory               
 direction from the legislature.  Senator Donley thinks HJR 43 would           
 open a huge legal can of worms.                                               
                                                                               
 Number 474                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks Senator Donley if he prefers the language in              
 SJR 2 to the language in HJR 43.                                              
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY replies he prefers SJR 2.  He prefers specifications           
 that victims and rights be defined in statute.  There is no                   
 provision in HJR 43 defining "victim" by the legislature.  Senator            
 Donley asks who is a victim and to whom should we extend these                
 rights.  HJR 43 does not defer that decision to the legislature in            
 any way, shape, or form.                                                      
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY asks that the legislature be deferred to in defining           
 "victim" and "victim's rights", and that the legislature have the             
 ability to do so by statute.                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 440                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks if there could possible be an adverse affect if           
 the legislature does not provide for those rights.                            
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY responds that is a danger.  But by establishing                
 victim's rights in the constitution, a baseline would be created.             
 By having language deferring to the legislature in defining these             
 terms, the courts could look to existing statutes as the baseline.            
                                                                               
 Number 421                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR comments he is curious about the resolution                    
 addressing penal administration.  He is trying to think of a                  
 situation where a victim could actually be a perpetrator.                     
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks Senator Donley if he has any objection to                 
 incorporating section 1.                                                      
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY says he has no opposition to that.                             
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN and SENATOR DONLEY discuss the differences between             
 SJR 2 and HJR 43.  There are differences in the drafting style.               
                                                                               
 Number 385                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN states that HJR 43 says victims are entitled to seek    k   
 restitution, while SJR 2 says victims are entitled to restitution.            
  The Senate State Affairs Committee deleted the word "seek" in its'           
 committee substitute.  The chairman thanks Senator Donley for his             
 comments.                                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 370                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR expresses concern that what the legislature is                 
 trying to do with these resolutions, should have been common sense            
 treatment by the enforcement arm of government.  Senator Taylor               
 states his dissatisfaction with the District Attorney's Office in             
 particular.  He says what the committee is really talking about is            
 making police and district attorney's act nicer toward victims.               
                                                                               
 Number 360                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY asks why "...the right to information about the                
 conviction, judgement, sentence, disposition, imprisonment,                   
 criminal record, and release...." is not included in HJR 43.                  
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN says he spoke to Representative Porter, and his                
 conclusion was that information is available in conjunction with              
 the other rights, and that it would be redundant to include that              
 language.                                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 348                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR says there is a problem with the district attorney's           
 office not believing people were victimized.                                  
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN says just the assertion by someone that they are a             
 victim, does not make them a victim.                                          
                                                                               
 SENATOR TAYLOR states he believes strongly in restitutional                   
 sentences.  However there can be problems.  Senator Taylor relates            
 an incident to illustrate potential problems.                                 
                                                                               
 Number 305                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN appreciates Senator Taylor's comments, and says we             
 need to make sure there is fairness in the system.  The chairman              
 asks if anyone else wishes to testify on HJR 43.  Hearing none, the           
 chairman asks the pleasure of the committee.                                  
                                                                               
 Number 290                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR MILLER makes a motion to discharge HJR 43 from the Senate             
 State Affairs Committee with individual recommendations.                      
                                                                               
 Number 280                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN, hearing no objection, orders HJR 43 released from             
 committee with individual recommendations.                                    
                                                                               
 Number 275                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN adjourns the Senate State Affairs Committee meeting            
 at 10:28 a.m.                                                                 
                                                                               

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