Legislature(1993 - 1994)

03/21/1994 09:13 AM STA

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                SENATE STATE AFFAIRS COMMITTEE                                 
                         March 21, 1994                                        
                           9:13 a.m.                                           
  MEMBERS PRESENT                                                              
 Senator Loren Leman, Chair                                                    
 Senator Mike Miller, Vice Chair                                               
 Senator Robin Taylor                                                          
  MEMBERS ABSENT                                                               
 Senator Jim Duncan                                                            
 Senator Johnny Ellis                                                          
  COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                           
 CS FOR HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 43(FIN)                                     
 Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the State of Alaska             
 relating to the rights of crime victims.                                      
 HOUSE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 26                                            
 Declaring 1994 to be the year of Vancouver.                                   
 CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 249(HES)                                               
 "An Act relating to assisted living homes; relating to the                    
 conversion of an assisted living home to a nursing home; repealing            
 references to residential facilities for dependent adults;                    
 abolishing the authority of certain municipalities to license or              
 supervise institutions caring for dependent adults; and providing             
 for an effective date."                                                       
 SENATE BILL NO. 302                                                           
 "An Act relating to the establishment, modification, and                      
 enforcement of support orders and the determination of parentage in           
 situations involving more than one state; amending Alaska Rule of             
 Administration 9; amending Alaska Rule of Civil Procedure 82; and             
 providing for an effective date."                                             
  PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION                                             
 HJR 43 - See Judiciary minutes dated 11/16/93 and State Affairs               
          minutes dated 3/9/94.                                                
 HCR 26 - No previous senate committee action.                                 
 SB 249 - See Health, Education & Social Services minutes dated                
          2/2/94, 2/4/94, 2/16/94, 2/23/94, and 3/9/94.                        
 SB 302 - No previous senate committee action.                                 
 WITNESS REGISTER                                                              
 Representative Brian Porter                                                   
 State Capitol, Juneau, AK 99801-1182¶465-4930                                 
  POSITION STATEMENT:  prime sponsor of HJR 43                                 
 Margot Knuth, Assistant Attorney General                                      
 Criminal Division                                                             
 Department of Law                                                             
 P.O. Box 110300, Juneau, AK 99811-0300¶465-3428                               
  POSITION STATEMENT:  testified on HJR 43                                     
 Linda Giguere, Aide                                                           
 Representative Hudson                                                         
 State Capitol, Juneau, AK 99801-1182¶465-6827                                 
  POSITION STATEMENT:  prime sponsor of HCR 26                                 
 Connie Sipe, Executive Director                                               
 Division of Senior Services                                                   
 Department of Administration                                                  
 P.O. Box 110209, Juneau, AK 99811-0209¶465-3250                               
  POSITION STATEMENT:  in favor of SB 249                                      
 John Mallonee, Deputy Director                                                
 Child Support Enforcement Division                                            
 550 W 7th, Suite 312, Anchorage, AK 99501-3556¶269-6800                       
  POSITION STATEMENT:  in favor of SB 302                                      
 Laraine Derr, Deputy Commissioner                                             
 Department of Revenue                                                         
 P.O. Box 110400, Juneau, AK 99811-0400¶465-2302                               
  POSITION STATEMENT:  in favor of SB 302                                      
  ACTION NARRATIVE                                                             
 TAPE 94-18, SIDE A                                                            
 Number 001                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN calls the Senate State Affairs Committee to order at           
 9:13 a.m.                                                                     
 Number 010                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN brings up HJR 43 (RIGHTS OF CRIME VICTIMS) as the              
 first order of business before the Senate State Affairs Committee.            
 The chairman calls Representative Porter as the first witness.                
 Number 018                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN PORTER states HJR 43 would take statutory                
 rights currently given to victims and make those rights                       
 constitutional.  This would put the victim's rights on par with               
 those of the defendant.  One of the differences between the senate            
 version and the house version on this subject is that the senate              
 version contains the section 12 amendments dealing with penal                 
 administration.  Representative Porter states that, as sponsor of             
 the house legislation, he would have no problem with the re-                  
 insertion of that section in to the house bill.  The one                      
 qualification of that would be to make sure the legalities of that            
 do not present problems.  The only other difference between the two           
 pieces of legislation is the drafting form.                                   
 Number 045                                                                    
 SENATOR TAYLOR asks what happened to this amendment on the house              
 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER responds there was a single subject question,           
 and rather than seek a final answer, the house just separated the             
 two subjects.                                                                 
 Number 050                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN says the Senate State Affairs Committee requested              
 that the Legislative Council to address that.  The Legislative                
 Council did say a title amendment to the house bill would require             
 a concurrent resolution and two-thirds vote for passage.  Of course           
 it will take a two-thirds vote to pass HJR 43 at any rate.                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN says he sees three main differences between the                
 house and senate legislation.  One difference is the section in the           
 senate bill which addresses penal administration.  The second is              
 the format.  He thinks it is easier to read if it is numbered, but            
 also thinks the legislation should be consistent with the existing            
 language of the constitution.  The third main area of difference is           
 whether these provisions are listed as rights versus allowances,              
 entitlements, or requests.  Those are some of the things the                  
 committee should address.  We also are concerned that the state not           
 take on liability for restitution.                                            
 Number 101                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER mentions there has been discussion that                 
 notifying the victim if the offender escapes from custody should be           
 added to the legislation.                                                     
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN thinks that is a very good point and plans to add              
 that to the new committee substitute (cs).                                    
 SENATOR MILLER makes a motion to adopt the cs.                                
 Number 114                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN, hearing no objection, states SCS CSHJR 43(STA) has            
 been adopted in lieu of CSHJR 43(STA).  The chairman calls Ms.                
 Knuth from the Department of Law to testify.  The chairman asks Ms.           
 Knuth how the legislation should be formatted, or if it will be               
 automatically put in the same format as the rest of the                       
 constitution when it is inserted.                                             
 Number 125                                                                    
 MARGOT KNUTH, Assistant Attorney General, Criminal Division,                  
 Department of Law says she cannot answer the chairman's question              
 about how the bill should be formatted.  However, she doesn't think           
 the type of format would make a substantive difference.  Just for             
 consistency, there is an argument to be made in that no other part            
 of the constitution is formatted in this style.  She does not think           
 it should be a matter of major concern though.                                
 Number 141                                                                    
 MS. KNUTH expresses appreciation that the reference to the juvenile           
 justice system was omitted on the proposed amendment to section 12,           
 article 1, section 12.  That will help keep the juvenile justice              
 system a little neater.                                                       
 She has a minor concern that including restitution from the                   
 offender could be used as a defendant's right, instead of a                   
 victim's right.  We are careful to set out the rights of victims of           
 crimes separately, while restitution is listed in a different                 
 section.  Defendants will argue that that needs to be a factor                
 during sentencing.  She would hope the courts would reject that               
 argument, but we have had some less than reasonable rulings from              
 the courts.  If this is the wish of the legislature, then that is             
 fine, but she simply wants to make the committee aware of that                
 Number 178                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN states the scenario Ms. Knuth just mentioned was               
 exactly what he had in mind: that restitution could be considered             
 part of a sentence.  We do change, to some extent, the way we look            
 at penal administration.  The chairman is not interested in                   
 releasing people who are dangerous to the public simply for the               
 purpose of restitution.  But he is interested in using restitution            
 in those cases where the other conditions are met.  Restitution               
 should be a part of the penal administration, in his opinion.                 
 Number 189                                                                    
 SENATOR TAYLOR believes strongly in restitution, but is concerned             
 about restitution possibly taking the place of part or all of                 
 serving a sentence.  He has just seen on TV that Michael Jackson              
 can sleep with any little boys he wants; all he has to do is pay              
 them enough money and they disappear.  If that isn't restitution,             
 Senator Taylor does not know what it is.  He is concerned that if             
 a person is wealthy enough, they can continue to violate any laws             
 they want to, as long as they pay for it.  We need to be very                 
 serious in giving consideration to restitution being used as a                
 portion of sentencing, and he does not want to see people being               
 able to buy their way out of the process of justice.                          
 Number 207                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN responds inserting restitution probably wouldn't               
 change the case just mentioned by Senator Taylor, or other similar            
 cases, since restitution is listed as a lower priority than                   
 community condemnation of the offender and public protection.  The            
 chairman asks if there is further discussion or anyone else wishing           
 to testify on HJR 43.  Hearing none, he announces HJR 43 will be              
 held over until Wednesday's meeting.  He hopes the committee will             
 be able to move the bill out at that time.                                    
 Number 223                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN brings up HCR 26 (DECLARING 1994 THE YEAR OF CAPT              
 VANCOUVER) as the next order of business before the Senate State              
 Affairs Committee.  The chairman asks for testimony from the prime            
 Number 227                                                                    
 LINDA GIGUERE, Aide to Representative Hudson, says HCR 26 was                 
 introduced to bring attention to the 200th anniversary of the                 
 voyages of Captain Vancouver.  There will be many educational                 
 activities going on to celebrate these voyages, and Representative            
 Hudson thought a resolution would be a nice way to focus attention            
 on the activities.                                                            
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN thanks Ms. Giguere for bringing the anniversary to             
 the committee's attention.  The chairman asks if there is any                 
 discussion on the resolution.  Hearing none, he asks the pleasure             
 of the committee                                                              
 SENATOR MILLER makes a motion to discharge HCR 26 from the Senate             
 State Affairs Committee with individual recommendations.                      
 Number 240                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN, hearing no objection, orders HCR 26 released from             
 committee with individual recommendations.                                    
 Number 242                                                                    
 HOMES) as the next order of business before the committee.  The               
 chairman calls a representative from the Department of                        
 Administration to testify.                                                    
 Number 246                                                                    
 CONNIE SIPE, Executive Director, Division of Senior Services,                 
 Department of Administration states CSSB 249(HES) is a governor's             
 bill and is also supported by the Industry of Adult Foster Homes              
 and Adult Residential Care Centers, The Alaska Hospital & Nursing             
 Home Association, the Pioneer Homes Advisory Board, the Older                 
 Alaskans' Commission, the Pioneers of Alaska, and the AARP.                   
 MS. SIPE states there are three key points the bill would address             
 which she would like to summarize.  SB 249 takes a new approach to            
 living outside of one's own home and outside a nursing home.  It              
 creates a consumer protection or a landlord-tenant type of                    
 atmosphere of adequate disclosure to the consumer.  It allows                 
 access to health care in a home-like setting, instead of forbidding           
 people to get any health care help between the doors of their own             
 home and those of a nursing home.  And it transfers all the                   
 licensing responsibility from DFYS (Division of Family & Youth                
 Services) for licensing adult type care homes to two agencies with            
 program experience serving adults.  Homes that serve primarily the            
 elderly and physically disabled will be licensed by the Division of           
 Senior Services within the Department of Administration, and homes            
 such as group homes for developmentally disabled will be licensed             
 by the Division of Mental Health and Developmental Disabilities               
 within the Department of Health & Social Services (DHSS).  There              
 are provisions for dealing with overlap of jurisdiction so that the           
 person in the private sector who is running this business is not              
 MS. SIPE says she would be glad to answer any questions.  She knows           
 quite a few members of the committee are familiar with the bill, so           
 she won't go into it in great length, but would be glad to                    
 highlight any parts the chairman wishes.                                      
 Number 271                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN thanks Ms. Sipe and asks if there are questions from           
 committee members.  The chairman notes many members of the State              
 Affairs Committee are familiar with SB 249 because of all the work            
 that was done on it in the Health, Education & Social Services                
 Number 280                                                                    
 SENATOR TAYLOR asks if the state is now going into the licensing              
 Number 283                                                                    
 MS. SIPE responds the state currently licenses adult foster homes             
 and adult residential care centers, all states do license some                
 level of adult care facility, the licensing responsibility is                 
 simply being transferred.  However, the whole bill is less of a               
 licensing type of bill than it is a landlord-tenant type of bill.             
 SB 249 contains residents and landlords rights and responsibilities           
 explicitly laid out.  The current licensing system labels all the             
 adults who live in these facilities "dependant", treats them like             
 they were wards of the state, and does not require them to get much           
 disclosure of what they are purchasing from a dependant care                  
 MS. SIPE says this would encourage small developers who are                   
 interested in building assisted living homes to do so.  Current               
 licensing is not favorable to assisted living.  The pioneers homes            
 can handle assisted living because they are not required to be                
 licensed.  Literally, if someone cannot take the cap off their                
 medication bottle, they cannot be in an adult foster home, even if            
 that home is run by a registered nurse.  If they are bedridden with           
 bronchitis for five days, they are supposed to be discharged to a             
 nursing home.  SB 249 would allow them to have access to health               
 care in assisted living homes.  The state currently licenses, but             
 this is a change in licensing.  It hopefully will require less                
 state oversight.                                                              
 Number 310                                                                    
 SENATOR TAYLOR is concerned that pioneers homes are not licensed.             
 MS. SIPE states the pioneers homes would become licensed under this           
 bill.  But SB 249 was not proposed for the purpose of licensing the           
 pioneers homes, it was proposed for the private sector.  This will            
 allow the private sector to grow.  It will not change the                     
 activities of the pioneers homes, it will not require pioneers                
 homes to have assisted living, although pioneers homes would be               
 subject to getting licensed under SB 249.                                     
 Number 325                                                                    
 SENATOR TAYLOR is concerned with the length of the bill.  On page             
 18 of the bill, language says, "this chapter does not preclude a              
 state agency from imposing additional requirements or standards on            
 an assisted living home in order for the home to receive state or             
 federal payment for services."  There is a blank check for DEC or             
 the Fire Marshall.  Senator Taylor says over the years, he has                
 watched these agencies with dictatorial power have great effect on            
 businesses.  Senator Taylor says the only reason this is a growing            
 industry is no one can afford to put their relatives into our                 
 state-supported facilities.  So now we are going to let the state             
 get involved in the private sector.  That indicates to him, that              
 the price for the private sector services will have to increase.              
 Number 349                                                                    
 MS. SIPE replies the state has the same concern: they do not want             
 to over-regulate.  Senior Services plans to handle this with one              
 licensing worker.  They are going from one year licenses to two               
 year licenses renewals.  The state is trying to minimize the                  
 regulations.  The state is de-regulating one and two person foster            
 homes, so that if you want to arrange with a retired nurse who is             
 your neighbor, to take care of your mother, you can do that and               
 they will not be regulated at all.  SB 249 actually contains quite            
 a few deregulatory provisions.  By requiring disclosure by the                
 home, we feel that the state can stay further out of that                     
 relationship and just do the minimal amount of licensing needed.              
 MS. SIPE says she would like to address Senator Taylor's comments             
 about the Fire Marshall and DEC, but SB 249 does not address that             
 issue.  That is a whole other area of law.  The industry has great            
 difficulty with the Fire Marshall, partially because of conflicting           
 local jurisdiction interpretations.  Local jurisdictions can have             
 their own interpretations of law, and can enforce more stringently            
 than the State Fire Marshall.  However, Ms. Sipe has checked with             
 the State Fire Marshall and they are not interested in a state                
 over-ride in this bill at this time.  They have promised to work              
 with the Department of Administration to try to get more uniformity           
 in interpretation.  The private sector is running into some of the            
 problems mentioned by Senator Taylor.  DEC is not as big a problem            
 as the Fire Marshall.  The Fire Marshall is the problem Ms. Sipe              
 hears all over the state.  She is sorry this bill does not have a             
 cure for that problem.  Ms. Sipe points out that what to some                 
 people is a problem, to the Municipality of Anchorage is a local              
 control issue; it depends on which way you look at it.                        
 Number 368                                                                    
 MS. SIPE introduces Pat Denny from the Older Alaskan's Commission             
 and notes that the commission supports SB 249.  There is a position           
 paper from them in the committee's bill packet.                               
 Number 378                                                                    
 SENATOR TAYLOR comments he is concerned with SB 249 because he is             
 new to it.  He believes in the concept of the bill.                           
 Number 384                                                                    
 SENATOR MILLER makes a motion to discharge SB 249 from the Senate             
 State Affairs Committee with individual recommendations.                      
 Number 385                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN, hearing no objection, orders SB 249 released from             
 committee with individual recommendations.                                    
 Number 388                                                                    
 ACT) as the next order of business before the committee.  The                 
 chairman calls Mr. Mallonee to testify.                                       
 Number 395                                                                    
 JOHN MALLONEE, Deputy Director, Child Support Enforcement Division            
 (CSED), Department of Revenue states SB 302 addresses one of the              
 most complex and difficult areas of child support establishment and           
 enforcement, since we have to deal with multiple states, that have            
 varying laws and procedures within their own child support                    
 enforcement and establishment.  This bill will clarify the                    
 procedures used among the states when this legislation has been               
 passed by all the states.  Currently, these laws are not federally            
 mandated, however, there are bills in congress which may mandate              
 this legislation in the future.  This legislation has been passed             
 in eight states, and is pending in twenty-five additional states.             
 Number 405                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN states that would bring the total number of states             
 with this legislation to 33, assuming all twenty-five states in               
 which legislation is pending, passed that legislation.  The                   
 chairman asks if there are questions from committee members.  The             
 chairman comments uniform acts tend to be quite long pieces of                
 legislation, and he has not had time to review SB 302 in detail.              
 The chairman notes SB 302 is supported by the U.S Commission on               
 Interstate Child Support, the American Bar Association, and the               
 state Child Support Enforcement Division.                                     
 Number 418                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN notes that the analysis for fiscal note #2 states              
 the "U.S. Commission on Interstate Child Support recommends                   
 verbatim enactment of this legislation, under penalty of losing               
 federal funding."  The chairman says he does not want to tinker               
 just for the sake of tinkering, and asks if it is Mr. Mallonee's              
 opinion that even changing something small would put the state in             
 jeopardy of losing federal funds.                                             
 MR. MALLONEE does not think minor changes would create problems for           
 the state or problems with the other states.  The problem with                
 changes to a uniform bill, however, is that it needs to be as                 
 uniform as possible throughout the states.  Minor changes should              
 not be a problem, but no substantive changes should be made.                  
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks if there have been any other hearings in the              
 legislature on SB 302.                                                        
 MR. MALLONEE responds this hearing is the first.                              
 Number 438                                                                    
 SENATOR TAYLOR states he is concerned with the 1.5 million                    
 projected operating costs.                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN replies 1.5 million is a revenue fund source, not an           
 operating cost.                                                               
 Number 443                                                                    
 MR. MALLONEE says SB 302 will not so much simplify the procedure of           
 interstate child support, as it will clarify who has responsibility           
 for certain aspects of the procedure.  This bill has several                  
 requirements which will increase the work of CSED.   One, is that             
 certain notices will have to be given within 48 hours.  Another is            
 that there will be more persons utilizing the child support                   
 enforcement system when this legislation is enacted.  Those things            
 will increase the caseload to some extent.  CSED's caseload                   
 consists of approximately 30% to 35% interstate cases.  Mr.                   
 Mallonee believes this percentage will increase as procedures are             
 Number 464                                                                    
 SENATOR TAYLOR asks where the funding is coming from for the                  
 revenue fund source on fiscal note #2                                         
 LARAINE DERR, Deputy Commissioner, Department of Revenue clarifies            
 Senator Taylor is looking at an old fiscal note.  The current                 
 fiscal note was signed 3/10/94.                                               
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN says he is looking at the fiscal note dated 1/31/94.           
 MS. DERR states the original fiscal note was revised to show CSED's           
 best guess as to increased caseload.                                          
 Number 490                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN says CSED expects an increased caseload, but that in           
 all cases, revenues coming in will exceed expenditure.  The money             
 coming in will exceed money spent by the state on such things as              
 MS. DERR says half the money brought into the state is reimbursed             
 to the federal government.                                                    
 MR. MALLONEE states those would be interstate collections of AFDC             
 (Aid to Families with Dependant Children) disbursements.                      
 Number 499                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN asks if CSED has any comparisons between URESA                 
 (Uniform Reciprocal Enforcement Support Act) and UIFSA (Uniform               
 Interstate Family Support Act).                                               
 MR. MALLONEE replies he does not have anything at hand, but can put           
 something together.                                                           
 Number 512                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN says he would like to get a little more familiar               
 with SB 302.  The committee could bring the bill back up Wednesday            
 morning, if the committee can get some information by Tuesday                 
 Number 516                                                                    
 SENATOR TAYLOR asks where the provisions are in SB 302 concerning             
 MR. MALLONEE responds there are no provisions in SB 302 which                 
 specifically address visitation.                                              
 Number 520                                                                    
 SENATOR TAYLOR says there were provisions addressing visitation in            
 MR. MALLONEE replies SB 302 deals strictly with enforcement of                
 child support and establishment of paternity.                                 
 SENATOR TAYLOR asks if the administration is going to address the             
 issue of visitation, or is the administration only concerned with             
 the amount of money non-custodial parents are expected to pay.                
 MR. MALLONEE says he does not have the answer to that question.  He           
 does realize that visitation has become a key word for many people,           
 and he understands the concern with visitation.  However,                     
 visitation is not for CSED to determine.  The courts determine                
 Number 534                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN says the question that needs to be answered is, if             
 URESA is repealed, and UIFSA does not address visitation, how will            
 the issue of visitation be affected?  The chairman asks Ms. Derr              
 and Mr. Mallonee to look at that issue and be prepared to address             
 it on Wednesday.  The chairman asks if anyone else wishes to                  
 testify.  Hearing none, he announces the committee will hear the              
 bill again on Wednesday, March 23, 1994.                                      
 Number 548                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN LEMAN adjourns the Senate State Affairs Committee meeting            
 at 9:55 a.m.                                                                  

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