Legislature(2001 - 2002)

04/03/2002 10:35 AM RLS

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                    
                     SENATE RULES COMMITTEE                                                                                   
                          April 3, 2002                                                                                         
                           10:35 a.m.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Randy Phillips, Chair                                                                                                   
Senator John Cowdery, Vice Chair                                                                                                
Senator Gene Therriault                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Senator Rick Halford                                                                                                            
Senator Johnny Ellis                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                              
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 205                                                                                                             
"An  Act  relating  to  control  of  nuisance  wild  animals;  and                                                              
providing for an effective date."                                                                                               
     APPROVED FOR CALENDARING                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 220                                                                                                             
"An  Act relating  to the  scope  of practice  authorized under  a                                                              
license to practice hairdressing."                                                                                              
     APPROVED FOR CALENDARING                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 328                                                                                                             
"An  Act  requiring   that  a  nonresident  big   game  hunter  be                                                              
accompanied by a big game guide who  is providing big game hunting                                                              
services to the nonresident under  a contract with the nonresident                                                              
or who  is employed  by a  big game  guide who  has a contract  to                                                              
provide big game hunting services to the nonresident."                                                                          
     APPROVED FOR CALENDARING                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 342                                                                                                             
"An Act relating to the long term care ombudsman."                                                                              
     APPROVED FOR CALENDARING                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 343(FIN)                                                                                                  
"An  Act   extending  the  termination   date  of  the   Board  of                                                              
Professional   Counselors;   and    relating   to   licensing   of                                                              
professional counselors."                                                                                                       
     APPROVED FOR CALENDARING                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Amy Erickson                                                                                                                
Staff to Representative Murkowski                                                                                               
Alaska State Capitol                                                                                                            
Juneau, AK  99801-1182                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented CSHB 343(FIN) for the sponsor                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Anne Henry                                                                                                                  
Chair, Board of Professional Counselors                                                                                         
Division of Occupational Licensing                                                                                              
Department of Community & Economic Development                                                                                  
PO Box 110806                                                                                                                   
Juneau, AK  99811-0806                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT:  Explained the proposed amendments to CSHB                                                                
343(FIN) to committee members                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Dr. Phillip Baker                                                                                                               
Alaska Psychological Association                                                                                                
4325 Laurel #215                                                                                                                
Anchorage, AK  99508                                                                                                            
POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed to CSHB 343(FIN) letter of intent                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Dr. Deborah Mohn                                                                                                                
Alaska Psychological Association                                                                                                
2024 Shepherdia                                                                                                                 
Anchorage, AK  99508                                                                                                            
POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed to CSHB 343(FIN) letter of intent                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Dr. David Sperbeck                                                                                                              
Psychology Licensing Board                                                                                                      
2530 Debarr Rd.                                                                                                                 
Anchorage, AK  99508                                                                                                            
POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed to CSHB 343(FIN) letter of intent                                                                
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 02-5, SIDE A                                                                                                             
Number 001                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN RANDY PHILLIPS called the  Senate Rules Committee meeting                                                            
to order at 10:35 a.m. Present were  Senators Cowdery, Therriault,                                                              
and  Phillips.  Chairman Phillips  informed  members  that SB  205                                                              
would  not  be heard  as  it was  not  in  the possession  of  the                                                              
committee. The committee took up SB 220.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR COWDERY moved to calendar at the Chairman's discretion SB                                                           
220-SCOPE  OF PRACTICE  OF HAIRDRESSING  with its attached  fiscal                                                          
notes.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
There being no  objection, CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS announced  the motion                                                              
carried.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR COWDERY moved to calendar  at the Chairman's discretion SB                                                          
328-BIG   GAME  HUNTERS   ACCOMPANIED  BY   GUIDE  with   its  two                                                          
accompanying fiscal notes.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
There being no  objection, CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS announced  the motion                                                              
carried.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR COWDERY moved to calendar  at the Chairman's discretion SB                                                          
342-LONG TERM CARE OMBUDSMAN with its attached fiscal notes.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
There being no  objection, CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS announced  the motion                                                              
carried.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS  announced that today's Senate  Rules hearing on                                                              
CSHB 343-BD OF PROF. COUNSELORS:  SUNSET & MISC (FIN) is the first                                                          
committee  hearing in  the Senate.  He informed  members that  the                                                              
committee would take public testimony  and that Senator Therriault                                                              
would offer amendments to CSHB 343(FIN).                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. AMY ERICKSON, staff to Representative  Murkowski and the House                                                              
Labor  and  Commerce  Committee,   explained  that  CSHB  343(FIN)                                                              
extends  the  termination  date   of  the  Board  of  Professional                                                              
Counselors   and   amends   professional   counselors'   education                                                              
requirements to 60  semester hours during or after  their achieved                                                              
graduate degree. The bill also allows  counselors to begin earning                                                              
their supervised  experience immediately upon completion  of their                                                              
education, instead  of waiting until they complete  their graduate                                                              
hours of training.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. ERICKSON  stated that  Amendment 1  (J.3) will allow  licensed                                                              
professional  counselors from  other  states to  meet criteria  to                                                              
supervise  clinicians.  Master's level  clinicians  who have  been                                                              
supervised outside  of Alaska will  receive credit for  their work                                                              
when they move to the state and apply  for licensure.  Amendment 2                                                              
(J.4)  simply  clarifies  that certifications  for  all  types  of                                                              
supervising  professionals  will  remain in  effect  unless  their                                                              
licenses  are   revoked,  suspended,   or  otherwise   lapse.  Two                                                              
amendments  have  been  proposed  by  the  Board  of  Professional                                                              
Counselors.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  THERRIAULT clarified  that  it came  to light  that if  a                                                              
clinician  had  done  a  practicum or  was  supervised  under  the                                                              
direction of a  supervisor out of state, the clinician  would have                                                              
to  start  from scratch  when  he  or  she  moved to  Alaska.  The                                                              
amendments basically  say that the  time a clinician  spends under                                                              
supervision   in  another   state  will   count  toward   Alaska's                                                              
requirements.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. ERICKSON agreed.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS.  ANNE HENRY,  Chair  of  the  Board of  Licensed  Professional                                                              
Counselors, informed  members that as the board  was reviewing its                                                              
regulations, it  came across a  provision that would  have allowed                                                              
only professional counselors licensed  in Alaska to supervise. The                                                              
board wanted to  clarify that licensed professional  counselors in                                                              
other  states  could  also  supervise.   The  second  change  that                                                              
pertains to Amendment 2 is the result  of a glitch that allows the                                                              
board to  decertify any licensed  professional counselor  who lost                                                              
his or her license  but does not allow the board  to decertify any                                                              
other counseling professional.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS took teleconference testimony.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
DR. PHILLIP BAKER, Executive Director  of the Alaska Psychological                                                              
Association  (APA),  offered  the  following  testimony.  The  APA                                                              
supports   the  extension   of  the   licensing  of   professional                                                              
counselors through the  next sunset period, which ends  in June of                                                              
2005. However,  buried within the  text of HB  343 is a  letter of                                                              
intent indicating  a recommendation  that  all four mental  health                                                              
boards,  the   Boards  of   Psychologists,  Marriage   and  Family                                                              
Therapists,  and Social  Workers and  Professional Counselors,  be                                                              
combined into  one board.  The APA takes  great exception  to that                                                              
letter of intent and urges that it be dropped from the bill.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DR. BAKER explained  that with Governor Hickel's  desire to reduce                                                              
the  size  and expense  of  government,  legislation  passed  that                                                              
required professional  boards to reduce  their size and  costs. At                                                              
that time, Senator  Drue Pearce was Chair of the  Senate Labor and                                                              
Commerce Committee  and contacted the  APA. The only  other mental                                                              
health board at  that time was a board of social  workers. The two                                                              
boards agreed to take on the full  costs of the operation of their                                                              
boards  in  order   to  remain  separate.  The   boards  felt  the                                                              
administration of  those licensing boards is very  labor intensive                                                              
and requires  a lot of  applicant review  work.  Both  boards felt                                                              
that combining  them would reduce  the oversight  function, create                                                              
problems,  and  possibly  increase liability  from  consumers  who                                                              
might be  more at  risk. Members  of the  Division of  Legislative                                                              
Budget and Audit  have indicated that no economic  benefit will be                                                              
gained by combining the board. However,  this issue came up as the                                                              
result  of an  audit done  last spring  by the  division in  which                                                              
several other boards (Boards of Family  and Marital Therapists and                                                              
Professional Counselors) felt there  might be an economy of effort                                                              
to   establish  their   internal  organization.   The  Boards   of                                                              
Psychologists  and Social  Workers  already have  well-established                                                              
infrastructures  and  do not  need  that  kind  of work.  What  is                                                              
overlooked  in this proposal  is the  loss of potential  oversight                                                              
function  and  that  more  people   will  probably  be  needed  to                                                              
coordinate, oversee  and supervise the boards involved.  For these                                                              
reasons, the  APA recommends  that something be  done to  drop the                                                              
letter of intent from the bill.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
DR. SPERBECK, Chairman  of the Psychology Licensing  Board, echoed                                                              
Dr.  Baker's  comments  about  the  Psychology  Licensing  Board's                                                              
objection  to being  integrated with  other boards.  The scope  of                                                              
training and practice of psychologists  is very different from the                                                              
other professionals.  He spends  at least 5  to 10 hours  per week                                                              
evaluating  training  curricula,  coursework, ethical  issues  and                                                              
continuing  education  for  the   psychology  profession  for  the                                                              
purpose  of protecting  the public.  He is  only able  to do  that                                                              
because he is  a trained psychologist and knows what  to look for.                                                              
He does not feel  qualified to evaluate the training  curricula of                                                              
social workers  or other counseling professionals.  He is strongly                                                              
opposed to  integrating the boards.  He pointed out that  in other                                                              
jurisdictions, such as Kansas and  Nebraska, with combined boards,                                                              
the  result  was not  favorable  and  many reversed  that  action.                                                              
Psychologists have  been willing to  pay higher licensing  fees to                                                              
remain independent.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS.   DEBORAH  MOHN,   President  of   the  Alaska   Psychological                                                              
Association,  said she  agrees with  the last  two speakers.  As a                                                              
child  psychologist,   her  education  and  training   were  quite                                                              
different from  that of a  social worker or licensed  professional                                                              
counselor. She said  it would be impossible to  be familiar enough                                                              
with the  licensing requirements of  all of the fields  to protect                                                              
the public.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  PHILLIPS  asked  Dr.  Baker  if  the  Senate  Labor  and                                                              
Commerce Committee intended to adopt the letter of intent.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
DR. BAKER said he did not know.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  THERRIAULT moved  to adopt  Amendment 1,  which reads  as                                                              
follows.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
                                                      22-LS1275\J.3                                                             
                                                         Lauterbach                                                             
                                                            4/16/02                                                             
                                                                                                                                
                      A M E N D M E N T  1                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
OFFERED IN THE SENATE                                                                                                           
     TO:  CSHB 343(FIN)                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Page 2, following line 27:                                                                                                      
     Insert a new bill section to read:                                                                                         
   "* Sec. 3.  AS 08.29.210(a) is amended to read:                                                                            
          (a) The board shall approve and certify a person as an                                                                
     approved counselor supervisor for the purposes of this                                                                     
     chapter if the person                                                                                                      
               (1) is licensed [UNDER THIS CHAPTER] as a                                                                        
     professional counselor  or is a licensed  physician, licensed                                                              
     advanced  nurse  practitioner  who is  certified  to  provide                                                              
     psychiatric  or  mental health  services,  licensed  clinical                                                              
     social  worker,   licensed  marital  and   family  therapist,                                                              
     licensed psychologist, or licensed psychological associate;                                                                
               (2) submits an application for certification and                                                                 
     the appropriate fee;                                                                                                       
               (3) has five years of counseling experience;                                                                     
               (4) provides to the board for its approval or                                                                    
     disapproval a statement that details the person's                                                                          
    supervision philosophy, orientation, and experience; and                                                                    
               (5) meets other criteria that may be established                                                                 
     by the board in regulations."                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. ERICKSON explained that Amendment 1 will allow professional                                                                 
counselors from other states to meet the criteria to supervise                                                                  
clinicians.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
There being no objection, CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS announced the motion                                                                
carried.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR THERRIAULT moved to adopt Amendment 2 (J.4), which reads                                                                
as follows.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
                                                      22-LS1275\J.4                                                             
                                                         Lauterbach                                                             
                                                            4/16/02                                                             
                                                                                                                                
                      A M E N D M E N T  2                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
OFFERED IN THE SENATE                                                                                                           
     TO:  CSHB 343(FIN)                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Page 2, following line 27:                                                                                                      
     Insert a new bill section to read:                                                                                         
   "* Sec. 3.  AS 08.29.210(b) is amended to read:                                                                            
          (b)  Certification under (a) of this section remains in                                                               
     effect, without the need for renewal of the certification,                                                                 
     until the person's professional licensure [AS A PROFESSIONAL                                                           
     COUNSELOR] is revoked, suspended, or otherwise lapses."                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS.   ERICKSON  explained   that   Amendment   2  clarifies   that                                                              
certifications  for all  types of  supervising professionals  will                                                              
remain in  effect unless their  license is revoked,  suspended, or                                                              
lapses.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR THERRIAULT  asked if  Amendment 2 is  linked to  the first                                                              
amendment  as far  as eliminating  the ability  to do  supervisory                                                              
work if a license is pulled.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. ERICKSON said that is correct.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
There  being  no  objection  to  Amendment  2,  CHAIRMAN  PHILLIPS                                                              
announced that Amendment 2 was adopted.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR THERRIAULT  asked if the fiscal note reflects  an increase                                                              
in fees.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. CATHERINE  REARDON, Director  of the Division  of Occupational                                                              
Licensing,  informed members  that  the fiscal  note reflects  the                                                              
division's  expenditures  that have  been  requested  in the  2003                                                              
budget. That request  is based on the amount spent  last year. She                                                              
also mentioned  that the  House letter of  intent was  in members'                                                              
packets  when the  bill  was discussed  by  the  Senate Labor  and                                                              
Commerce  Committee.  Members  did not  specifically  address  the                                                              
letter of intent or take any action on it.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS  asked if whether  the letter of intent  has any                                                              
effect on any fiscal note.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. REARDON said it does not because  the letter of intent says it                                                              
is  the  intent of  the  House  that  the boards  merge  in  2005.                                                              
Legislation  would have  to pass  to do  that so  the fiscal  note                                                              
attached to that legislation would contain those costs.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR THERRIAULT moved SCS HB 343(RLS)  for calendaring with one                                                              
zero fiscal note.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  PHILLIPS announced  that with  no objection, the  motion                                                              
carried.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS said  the committee will not take  up the letter                                                              
of intent, which he personally opposes.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  THERRIAULT said  that  by taking  no  action, the  Senate                                                              
cannot  undo  the  action  taken  in  the  House  so  the  House's                                                              
expression of intent  still stands. The letter  actually specifies                                                              
that it is the  intent of the House Labor and  Commerce Committee.                                                              
He noted  the third paragraph  of the  letter extends an  offer to                                                              
the boards to  propose alternative combinations. He  said he feels                                                              
comfortable not taking  action on the letter of intent  as it will                                                              
stand as the  House's expression alone. He pointed  out the Senate                                                              
could not take action to negate it anyway.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS  said that is true  unless the Senate  amends it                                                              
to be  the intent of the  Senate and House.  He noted that  due to                                                              
lack  of interest,  the  committee  would take  no  action on  the                                                              
letter of intent.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  THERRIAULT  indicated  that  any senator  can  bring  the                                                              
letter of intent up on the Senate floor.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS  agreed. With no further business,  he adjourned                                                              
the meeting at 10:57 a.m.                                                                                                       

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