Legislature(2025 - 2026)BUTROVICH 205

03/10/2025 03:30 PM Senate RESOURCES

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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
*+ SB 108 FINFISH FARMS AND PRODUCTS TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
-- Invited & Public Testimony --
*+ SB 97 BIG GAME PERMIT PROGRAM TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
-- Invited & Public Testimony --
Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled
**Streamed live on AKL.tv**
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
              SENATE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                         March 10, 2025                                                                                         
                           3:30 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
                             DRAFT                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Cathy Giessel, Chair                                                                                                    
Senator Bill Wielechowski, Vice Chair                                                                                           
Senator Matt Claman                                                                                                             
Senator Forrest Dunbar                                                                                                          
Senator Scott Kawasaki                                                                                                          
Senator Shelley Hughes                                                                                                          
Senator Robert Myers                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                              
SENATE BILL NO. 97                                                                                                              
"An  Act establishing  a big  game guide  concession area  permit                                                               
program on land  in the state; relating to the  duties of the Big                                                               
Game  Commercial   Services  Board,   the  Board  of   Game,  the                                                               
Department  of  Fish and  Game,  and  the Department  of  Natural                                                               
Resources; requiring  the Board of  Game to establish  an initial                                                               
big game  guide concession area;  and providing for  an effective                                                               
date."                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD & HELD                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 108                                                                                                             
"An Act relating to finfish  farms and finfish farm products; and                                                               
providing for an effective date."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD & HELD                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SB  97                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: BIG GAME PERMIT PROGRAM                                                                                            
SPONSOR(s): RESOURCES                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
02/12/25       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
02/12/25       (S)       RES, FIN                                                                                               
02/28/25       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
02/28/25       (S)       -- MEETING CANCELED --                                                                                 
03/05/25       (S)       PRIME    SPONSOR   CHANGED    -   SENATE                                                               
                         RESOURCES COMMITTEE                                                                                    
03/05/25       (S)       REPLACED SENATE RULES COMMITTEE                                                                        
03/10/25       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SB 108                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: FINFISH FARMS AND PRODUCTS                                                                                         
SPONSOR(s): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
02/24/25       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
02/24/25       (S)       RES, FIN                                                                                               
03/10/25       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
INTIMAYO HARBISON, Staff                                                                                                        
Senator Cathy Giessel                                                                                                           
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Co-presented SB 97 on behalf of the sponsor.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
EMMA TORKELSON, Staff                                                                                                           
Senator Robert Kaufman                                                                                                          
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Co-presented SB 97.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SONJA KAWASAKI, Legal Counsel                                                                                                   
Senate Majority Caucus                                                                                                          
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions on SB 97.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
JASON BUNCH, Outgoing Chair                                                                                                     
Alaska Big Game Commercial Services Board (BGCSB)                                                                               
Kodiak, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Gave invited testimony in support of SB 97.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
DOUG VINCENT-LANG, Commissioner                                                                                                 
Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G)                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions on SB 97.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
AARON BLOOMQUIST, Chairman                                                                                                      
Big Game Commercial Services Board                                                                                              
Palmer, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SB 97.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MARK RICHARDS, Executive Director                                                                                               
Resident Hunters of Alaska                                                                                                      
Fairbanks, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SB 97.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
DOUG VINCENT-LANG, Commissioner                                                                                                 
Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G)                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented SB 108 sponsored by the Rules                                                                   
Committee by request of the governor.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Joseph Felkl, Legislative Liaison                                                                                               
Commissioner's Office                                                                                                           
Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G)                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions on SB 108.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
JOHNNY FISHMONGER, Executive Director                                                                                           
Wild Salmon Nation                                                                                                              
King Salmon, Alaska                                                                                                             
Testified in opposition to SB 108                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SB 108.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
JILL WEITZ, Government Affairs Liaison                                                                                          
Central Council of Tlingit and Haida Indian Tribes of Alaska                                                                    
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SB 108.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MELANIE BROWN, representing self                                                                                                
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SB 108.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
ADAM CUTHRIELL, representing self                                                                                               
Girdwood, Alaska                                                                                                                
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SB 108.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SUSAN GEORGINA STEVENS, representing self                                                                                       
Wrangell, Alaska                                                                                                                
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SB 108.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MATTHEW JONES, representing self                                                                                                
Save Our Salmon                                                                                                                 
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SB 108.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
NORMAN PILLEN, President                                                                                                        
Seafood Producers Cooperative                                                                                                   
Sitka, Alaska                                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SB 108.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
JUDITH PHILLIPS, representing self                                                                                              
Kodiak, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to SB 108.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:30:10 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  GIESSEL called  the  Senate  Resources Standing  Committee                                                               
meeting to order  at 3:30 p.m. Present at the  call to order were                                                               
Senators Myers, Kawasaki, Dunbar,  Hughes, Wielechowski and Chair                                                               
Giessel. Senator Claman arrived shortly thereafter.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
                  SB  97-BIG GAME PERMIT PROGRAM                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:30:55 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR GIESSEL announced  the consideration of SENATE  BILL NO. 97                                                               
"An  Act establishing  a big  game guide  concession area  permit                                                               
program on land  in the state; relating to the  duties of the Big                                                               
Game  Commercial   Services  Board,   the  Board  of   Game,  the                                                               
Department  of  Fish and  Game,  and  the Department  of  Natural                                                               
Resources; requiring  the Board of  Game to establish  an initial                                                               
big game  guide concession area;  and providing for  an effective                                                               
date."                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:31:30 PM                                                                                                                    
INTIMAYO  HARBISON, Staff,  Senator Cathy  Giessel, Alaska  State                                                               
Legislature, Juneau, Alaska, co-presented SB  97 on behalf of the                                                               
sponsor. He invited Emma Torkelson to introduce SB 97.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:31:41 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR CLAMAN arrived.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:32:04 PM                                                                                                                    
EMMA  TORKELSON,  Staff,  Senator Robert  Kaufman,  Alaska  State                                                               
Legislature,  Juneau,   Alaska,  co-presented  SB   97,  formerly                                                               
offered by  Senator Kaufman [as  Senate Bill 189].  She explained                                                               
that SB  97 addressed long-standing problems  for commercial big-                                                               
game  hunting guides  operating  on Alaska  state  land. After  a                                                               
state-run  system  was  struck  down in  1988,  a  federal  guide                                                               
concession program was instituted,  leaving state lands without a                                                               
guide concession program.  She said this led  to overcrowding and                                                               
competition  in  certain  areas   that  harmed  guides,  clients,                                                               
businesses,  and  wildlife resources.  SB  97,  first passed  [as                                                               
Senate Bill 189] in 2024,  created a guide concession program for                                                               
one problem area on state land,  with the option to expand later.                                                               
She said the program functions  like a lease, limiting the number                                                               
of  guide  permits  in  a  defined  area  and  using  competitive                                                               
selection, term  limits, transfer rules,  enforcement provisions,                                                               
and equitable fees.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:34:16 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. TORKELSON said  the guide concession program  was designed to                                                               
meet Alaska  Supreme Court requirements, mirrored  the successful                                                               
federal  model, and  incorporated recommendations  from the  2023                                                               
guide concessions  work group.  She deferred  technical questions                                                               
to Jason Bunch, the work group's chair.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:35:05 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR CLAMAN  asked for confirmation  that SB 97  was identical                                                               
to Senate Bill 189, passed in 2024.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:35:12 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. TORKELSON  affirmed that SB  97 was identical to  Senate Bill                                                               
189.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:35:16 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  GIESSEL asked  for  an  explanation of  the  need for  the                                                               
committee to hear SB 97/Senate Bill 189 again.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:35:25 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. TORKELSON deferred to Ms. Kawasaki.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:35:50 PM                                                                                                                    
SONJA  KAWASAKI, Legal  Counsel, Senate  Majority Caucus,  Alaska                                                               
State  Legislature,  Juneau, Alaska,  said  SB  97 would  reenact                                                               
parts of  Senate Bill  189 that created  the big  game concession                                                               
area permit program.  She said SB 97 was intended  as a technical                                                               
fix to ensure the program  remained valid because Senate Bill 189                                                               
was being  challenged in court  for allegedly  violating Alaska's                                                               
constitutional  single-subject rule.  By reenacting  the relevant                                                               
provisions  of   Senate  Bill  189   separately,  the   big  game                                                               
concession area permit  program would stand on its  own and could                                                               
potentially render  the lawsuit  moot. She  said the  lawsuit was                                                               
filed in November 2024, the  state responded in January 2025, and                                                               
the next  step was a  trial-setting conference scheduled  for May                                                               
12, 2025.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:37:39 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR GIESSEL clarified  that SENATE BILL 189  contained the [Big                                                               
Game  Guide] concession  and  it also  contained  the renewal  of                                                               
three regulatory  boards, and  legislation regarding  child care.                                                               
Consequently,  the  assertion  was  made  that  SENATE  BILL  189                                                               
violated the  single subject law [in  Alaska's constitution]. She                                                               
said this was why SB 97 was before the committee.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
3:38:09 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  MYERS   noted  the   previous  concession   program  was                                                               
invalidated by  the Supreme  Court in [1988].  He asked  why that                                                               
program was  invalidated and why the  program put forth in  SB 97                                                               
was constitutional.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:38:37 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR GIESSEL noted possible expert resources available online.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:39:08 PM                                                                                                                    
MS.  KAWASAKI   said  she  was   not  familiar  with   the  prior                                                               
legislation that  was alleged to  be in violation of  the [state]                                                               
constitution. She offered to report back to the committee.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:39:33 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR GIESSEL  suggested that  forthcoming testimony  may provide                                                               
answers.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:39:43 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR GIESSEL announced invited testimony on SB 97.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:40:09 PM                                                                                                                    
JASON BUNCH, Outgoing Chair, Alaska  Big Game Commercial Services                                                               
Board (BGCSB), Kodiak, Alaska, gave  invited testimony in support                                                               
of SB  97. He  explained the Big  Game Commercial  Services Board                                                               
long lacked  a tool to  manage the  number of guides  in specific                                                               
areas of  Alaska, unlike federal  land managers  who successfully                                                               
used  concession systems  for  decades. He  said  the work  group                                                               
included  state  agency  representatives, guides,  and  a  public                                                               
member.  They   held  16  public   meetings  and   developed  the                                                               
concession  program  enacted in  Senate  Bill  189 and  presented                                                               
again   in   SB  97.   He   acknowledged   the  working   group's                                                               
unintentional oversight  - that they  did not consult  with large                                                               
neighboring private landowners.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BUNCH  said   the  working  group  designed   the  big  game                                                               
concession  guide  program to  comply  with  the [1988]  Owsichek                                                               
ruling  and  is  confident  the  program  itself  is  defensible.                                                               
However,  he said  the  current  law was  vulnerable  due to  the                                                               
ongoing Eastman single-subject litigation.  Because of that legal                                                               
uncertainty, the [Big Game  Commercial Services Board] determined                                                               
they  could not  responsibly  proceed without  passing  SB 97  to                                                               
solidify the  program. He urged  the committee  to pass SB  97 as                                                               
written, emphasizing the extensive collaboration behind it.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:42:35 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  MYERS  reiterated  his question.  He  noted  the  Alaska                                                               
Supreme Court 1988 decision to  invalidate the previous iteration                                                               
of  the big  game  guide  concession program  and  asked why  the                                                               
earlier program was invalidated and  why the [Big Game Commercial                                                               
Services Board  working group] found  the program provided  by SB
97  was different  and  why  they expected  it  to survive  court                                                               
scrutiny.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:42:58 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.  BUNCH  said  the  previous program  was  challenged  in  the                                                               
supreme  court and  failed  the  tests of  common  use and  equal                                                               
access.  He  said  the case  highlighted  that  concessions  were                                                               
constitutional and legal  if done under the  lease authorities of                                                               
Department of Natural Resources  (DNR) with equal opportunity. He                                                               
said  the  working  group  endeavored   to  address  and  correct                                                               
features of the  program according to the  weaknesses revealed in                                                               
the Owischek decision.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:44:17 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR GIESSEL  requested ADF&G Commissioner Vincent-Lang  to come                                                               
forward to answer questions on SB 97.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:44:34 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR GIESSEL noted  reports that the sheep  population in Alaska                                                               
was declining.  She asked  how a  guide concession  program would                                                               
affect those populations.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:44:54 PM                                                                                                                    
DOUG VINCENT-LANG,  Commissioner, Alaska  Department of  Fish and                                                               
Game  (ADF&G), Juneau,  Alaska, affirmed  that sheep  populations                                                               
were challenged across  the state and there  were limited hunting                                                               
opportunities.  He said  SB 97  would give  regulators a  tool to                                                               
limit the  number of guides operating  in a given area.  He noted                                                               
that the number of guides  operating on federal land were limited                                                               
and the only open-entry [hunting] areas  were on state land. As a                                                               
result,  highly used  areas like  19C  have heavy  use with  many                                                               
guides. He  said limiting the  number of guides would  limit non-                                                               
resident  hunting in  the  area and  allow  more opportunity  for                                                               
residents.  He  said  this  could also  be  done  by  instituting                                                               
drawing permits.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:45:42 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR MYERS asked why the state did not just use draw permits.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:45:49 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER VINCENT-LANG noted that  some hunters needed a guide                                                               
to  hunt sheep.  He said  using draw  permits without  a limited-                                                               
entry program for  guides would still result  in an uncompetitive                                                               
number  of  guides  in  the  area.  He  said  there  could  be  a                                                               
combination  of  [draw  permits  and  limited-entry  guides]  but                                                               
limiting guides would be necessary  to reduce the competition for                                                               
resident hunters.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
3:46:19 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR MYERS asked whether limiting  the number of permits would                                                               
limit the number of guides.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:46:31 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER VINCENT-LANG said  resident and non-resident hunters                                                               
often  need guides  to  hunt  sheep and  limiting  the number  of                                                               
guides would reduce the hunting competition.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:47:11 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR MYERS  noted that SB 97  did not specify sheep.  He asked                                                               
whether it  would apply  to moose,  caribou, black  bear, grizzly                                                               
bear, etc.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:47:34 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER  VINCENT-LANG  affirmed that  [similar  legislation]                                                               
was used  currently on  federal lands on  Kodiak Island.  He said                                                               
there were  still questions about  how many permits should  go to                                                               
non-resident  hunters,  but  [hunting pressure]  could  still  be                                                               
managed [effectively]  by limiting  the number  of guides  in the                                                               
landscape. He emphasized that guide  programs enhance the guides'                                                               
sense of  stewardship for  the resource. He  said the  only areas                                                               
currently open for guiding were state lands.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:48:20 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  MYERS  asked  how  the  federal  guiding  programs  that                                                               
limited guides  had affected  the price  for guiding  services in                                                               
those program areas.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER VINCENT-LANG  deferred the question to  the Big Game                                                               
Commercial Services Board.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:48:42 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER VINCENT-LANG  said the Owischek  decision determined                                                               
that the state could not  grant long-term, non-competitive leases                                                               
to  individuals. Previously,  guide areas  were being  issued and                                                               
sold  without  competition.  SB 97  would  restore  the  earlier,                                                               
successful  structure   but  make   it  compliant   by  requiring                                                               
competitive allocation  and limiting  permit duration  to 10-year                                                               
terms, after  which guides must reapply,  ensuring privileges are                                                               
not permanent and remain consistent with Owischek criteria.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:49:29 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR MYERS said  he would like to learn  how programs limiting                                                               
the number of guides affected the cost of guide services.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:49:46 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR GIESSEL said the chair  of the Big Game Commercial Services                                                               
Board would be testifying.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:49:53 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR GIESSEL concluded invited testimony on SB 97.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:50:00 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR GIESSEL opened public testimony on SB 97.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:50:29 PM                                                                                                                    
Insufficient audio connection.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:51:11 PM                                                                                                                    
AARON BLOOMQUIST,  Chairman, Big Game Commercial  Services Board,                                                               
Palmer, Alaska,  introduced himself  and testified in  support of                                                               
SB 97.  He said the  Big Game  Commercial Services Board  and the                                                               
Board of Game long sought  a state-land guide concession program,                                                               
and  they were  pleased to  see progress.  He said  the Big  Game                                                               
Commercial Services Board had no  effective tools to reduce guide                                                               
conflict without  harming the small businesses.  He reported that                                                               
conflict among guides was especially  high on state lands without                                                               
concessions, and  drawing permits  did not resolve  these issues.                                                               
He  said, in  some areas,  they worsen  conflict, for  example in                                                               
Units 14C,  13D, and on  the Kodiak  road system. He  opined that                                                               
the problem wasn't  too many guides overall  because the industry                                                               
shrank  by about  one-third  since 2005  due  to retirements  and                                                               
tougher  entry requirements,  high-quality  areas still  generate                                                               
heavy  competition  and  conflict.  He  praised  SB  97  for  its                                                               
extensive  public   input  and  expert   involvement,  expressing                                                               
confidence  that   it  would   provide  an   effective,  balanced                                                               
solution.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:54:23 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR MYERS asked  whether the prices for and  quality of guide                                                               
services was affected by guide concession programs.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:54:53 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.  BLOOMQUIST explained  that  in sheep  hunting,  his area  of                                                               
expertise, clients preferred guides  who held federal concessions                                                               
because they  associated them with  higher-quality, conflict-free                                                               
hunts. He  said prices  were not  always higher,  but concessions                                                               
provided  a  strong marketing  advantage.  He  said many  hunters                                                               
viewed federal concessions in Alaska  or exclusive concessions in                                                               
Canada  as  the  best  options, since  those  systems  guaranteed                                                               
exclusive  operating  areas.  As  a  result,  he  said  having  a                                                               
concession  offered a  clear business  and marketing  benefit for                                                               
guides.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:56:18 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  MYERS noted  that when  legislation granted  a monopoly,                                                               
for  example in  the  case of  a utility,  there  would be  heavy                                                               
regulation  of  the  prices.  He   asked  whether  similar  price                                                               
controls  were intended  to  be  included in  SB  97, like  other                                                               
economic monopolies in the state.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
3:57:08 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. BLOOMQUIST argued  that guide concessions would  not create a                                                               
monopoly, noting that Alaska had  220250  registered guides, each                                                               
operating as an independent business.  He said about half already                                                               
worked  in  exclusive   federal  concessions,  where  competition                                                               
remained  strong   and  market  forces  controlled   pricing.  He                                                               
emphasized  that  recent  price  increases,  such  as  the  3040                                                                
percent rise in  sheep hunt prices after severe  winters in 2019                                                                
2020, were driven by supply  and demand across North America, not                                                               
by  concessions. He  maintained  that the  industry would  remain                                                               
market driven and would not require price controls.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:58:32 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  MYERS  noted  recent  concern  over  transferability  of                                                               
exclusive  fishing licenses,  suggesting that  a power  imbalance                                                               
and  unequal access  resulted. He  asked whether  transferability                                                               
provisions of SB 97 were likely to be problematic.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:59:13 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.  BLOOMQUIST compared  transferability rules  across agencies.                                                               
He  said National  Park Service  concessions  could generally  be                                                               
bought and  sold if  the buyer was  a qualified,  licensed guide.                                                               
Fish and Wildlife Service concessions  were also transferable but                                                               
only after  the holder operated them  for more than a  decade. He                                                               
noted concerns  that transferable rights in  commercial fisheries                                                               
were sometimes sold out of  state, but emphasized that in guiding                                                               
most  federal concessions,  about  89 percent  in past  analyses,                                                               
were owned by Alaskans, partly  because running remote operations                                                               
from outside  the state  was difficult.  He argued  that allowing                                                               
transferability in  guide concessions  would help  maintain long-                                                               
term, family-run businesses.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:01:38 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR MYERS raised  a concern about the "power  of the default"                                                               
regarding  the  10-year  permit  system proposed  by  SB  97.  He                                                               
acknowledged  that  permits couldn't  be  renewed  without a  new                                                               
open, competitive process, but  wondered whether incumbents might                                                               
retain their  permits simply because  no one challenged  them. He                                                               
noted that  a lack  of competing  applications or  limited public                                                               
comment,  unless  a major  violation  occurred,  could allow  the                                                               
existing  permit  holder  to  keep  the  concession  by  default,                                                               
potentially enabling an informal "good old boy" dynamic.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:02:36 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. BLOOMQUIST noted similar provisions  in the federal programs.                                                               
He said  the National Park  Service offered operators  an "earned                                                               
renewal" option that allowed them  to match a competing proposal.                                                               
He said  this reflected the  Park Service's preference  for long-                                                               
term  operators who  met performance  standards. In  contrast, he                                                               
said  the  U.S.  Fish  and  Wildlife  Service  concessions  often                                                               
changed hands  and said  a recent  reallocation allowed  many new                                                               
entrants  to  successfully  gain  areas.  He  noted  that  SB  97                                                               
included provisions  that support opportunities for  new entrants                                                               
and  allowed applicants  to demonstrate  they can  provide better                                                               
stewardship. He  observed that  the details  of the  program were                                                               
yet to  be crafted and  emphasized that periodic  competition for                                                               
state lands  and wildlife, both  public trust  resources, ensured                                                               
that the best-qualified operators were selected.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:05:15 PM                                                                                                                    
MARK RICHARDS,  Executive Director,  Resident Hunters  of Alaska,                                                               
Fairbanks, Alaska, testified  in opposition to SB 97.  He said SB
97 attempted to limit guide numbers  on state lands and address a                                                               
long-standing  problem that  has caused  conflicts among  hunters                                                               
and biological strain  on wildlife. He noted  that warnings about                                                               
overcrowding date  back at  least 17 years  but said  neither the                                                               
Big  Game Commercial  Services Board  nor the  Board of  Game had                                                               
taken  meaningful action.  Instead,  he said  both boards  relied                                                               
solely on  a guide  concession program as  the solution  and have                                                               
refused to limit either guides  or nonresident hunters. He argued                                                               
that  the real  issue was  the Board  of Game  allowing unlimited                                                               
opportunities  for  nonresident  hunters who  must  hire  guides,                                                               
which  in turn  drives up  guide numbers.  He criticized  the Big                                                               
Game Commercial  Services Board  for continuing  to test  and add                                                               
new guides despite  known problems, and for  refusing to restrict                                                               
guides to  fewer guide  use areas, which,  he argued,  could have                                                               
been done decades ago after  the Owsichek decision. He claimed SB
97 had serious flaws, which he said must be fixed:                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
• DNR should not regulate guides.                                                                                               
•  The transferability  clause was  illegal because  the Owsichek                                                               
   decision prohibited treating exclusive guide areas as private                                                                
   property that can be sold.                                                                                                   
•  A change inherited from Senate Bill 253  would allow guides to                                                               
   hold three regular guide use areas plus three concession                                                                     
   areas.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR.  RICHARDS  concluded  by  expressing  deep  frustration  with                                                               
apparent inaction and urged meaningful changes.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:10:16 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR GIESSEL closed public testimony on SB 97.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:10:35 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. HARBISON summarized the sectional analysis for SB 97.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
[Original punctuation provided.]                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Sectional Analysis SB 97                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     "An Act  establishing a big game  guide concession area                                                                    
     permit program  on land in  the state; relating  to the                                                                    
     duties of  the Big Game Commercial  Services Board, the                                                                    
     Board of  Game, the  Department of  Fish and  Game, and                                                                    
     the  Department  of  Natural Resources;  requiring  the                                                                    
     Board of  Game to establish  an initial big  game guide                                                                    
     concession area; and providing for an effective date"                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Section  1:   Amends  the  duties   of  the   Big  Game                                                                  
     Commercial  Services Board  (BGCSB) in  AS 08.54.600(a)                                                                    
     to  authorize their  role in  the establishment  of big                                                                    
     game guide concession areas.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:10:55 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. HARBISON  continued to summarize  the sectional  analysis for                                                               
SB 97:                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Section 2: Creates new  section AS 16.05.262 empowering                                                                  
     the  Board of  Game  (BOG) to  oversee  the process  of                                                                  
     determining  which game  management  units or  subunits                                                                  
     will  adopt a  big  game guide  concession area  permit                                                                  
     program.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Requires  a  proposal be  first  submitted  to the  BOG                                                                    
     nominating a  game management unit  or subunit  for the                                                                    
     guide  concession  program.   After  a  public  comment                                                                    
     period,  the  BOG  in   consultation  with  the  BGCSB,                                                                    
     Department of  Natural Resources (DNR),  the Department                                                                    
     of  Fish and  Game (DF&G),  may approve  that proposal.                                                                    
     Their  approval process  must  take into  consideration                                                                    
     that  establishing the  area supports  the conservation                                                                    
     and  management  of  the  state's  land  and  big  game                                                                    
     resources, aides  the enforcement  of big  game hunting                                                                    
     laws,  and  is  in  the public  interest.  If  the  BOG                                                                    
     approves  an  application,   they  will  determine  the                                                                    
     number  of full  and  limited  concession area  permits                                                                    
     that  will  be  granted  in  a  given  big  game  guide                                                                    
     concession area.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     Further, section  2 prohibits  the combination  of more                                                                    
     than three existing  guide use areas into  a single big                                                                    
     game  guide  concession  area and  includes  definition                                                                    
     references.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:11:12 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. HARBISON continued to summarize the sectional analysis for                                                                  
SB 97:                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Section 3: Creates new  section AS 38.05.022 empowering                                                                
     the   Department   of   Natural  Resources   (DNR)   to                                                                  
     administer  the implementation  of the  big game  guide                                                                  
     concession area permit program on  land approved by the                                                                  
     BOG.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                              
     Outlines  that  the  overarching  goals  of  the  guide                                                                    
     concession  program are  to encourage  long-term minded                                                                    
     conservation, enhance customer  experience, reduce user                                                                    
     conflicts,   and   ensure  responsible,   professional,                                                                    
     economically guiding industry.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Establishes  the  features   of  the  guide  concession                                                                    
     program permits:                                                                                                           
     1.  All  permits  are  awarded  an  open,  public,  and                                                                    
         competitive process.                                                                                                   
     2.  A guide  may not  hold more  than three  concession                                                                    
         permits at a time.                                                                                                     
     3. Permits are valid for 10 years.                                                                                         
     4.  Permits may not be extended  or renewed without the                                                                    
         same open, public, and competitive process.                                                                            
     5.  Permits may  be transferred  to another  individual                                                                    
         based on conditions set in regulation that are                                                                         
         consistent with the overarching goals of the guide                                                                     
         concession program.                                                                                                    
     6.  If the terms of statute or regulation are violated,                                                                    
         permit may be suspended or revoked after the permit                                                                    
         holder has been given written notice and                                                                               
         opportunity to be heard.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Section  3 further  empowers the  DNR, in  consultation                                                                    
     with the BOG,  DF&G, and BGCSB, to  adopt the necessary                                                                    
     regulations including  the qualifications for  full and                                                                    
     limited  concession permits,  process  for issuing  the                                                                    
     permits,  and the  collection of  fees;  grants DNR  or                                                                    
     their designee  the authority to  enforce the  terms of                                                                    
     this  program;  allows  DNR to  keep  confidential  any                                                                    
     proprietary,  commercial,   and  financial  information                                                                    
     provided by concession  permit applicants; and includes                                                                    
     definitions.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:11:31 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. HARBISON continued to summarize the sectional analysis for                                                                  
SB 97:                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Section 4,  Uncodified Law: In  order to  establish the                                                                  
     first  big  game  guide   concession  area  and  permit                                                                    
     program, the  BOG will select one  game management unit                                                                    
     or   subunit  that   would   most   benefit  from   the                                                                    
     implementation of the guide concession program.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     Section  5,   Uncodified  Law:   Transitional  language                                                                  
     allowing the guide concession program  to extend to new                                                                    
     game management units and subunits  after the first one                                                                    
     has been implemented for at least three (3) years.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Section 6: Sets an immediate effective date.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:12:41 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR GIESSEL held SB 97 in committee.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
               SB 108-FINFISH FARMS AND PRODUCTS                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
4:12:50 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR GIESSEL announced the consideration of SENATE BILL NO. 108                                                                
"An Act relating to finfish  farms and finfish farm products; and                                                               
providing for an effective date."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:13:34 PM                                                                                                                    
DOUG VINCENT-LANG,  Commissioner, Alaska  Department of  Fish and                                                               
Game (ADF&G), Juneau, Alaska, presented  SB 108, sponsored by the                                                               
Rules Committee by request of the governor.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:13:45 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER VINCENT-LANG moved to and narrated slide 2:                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
[Original punctuation provided.]                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     History of Finfish Farming in Alaska                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     In the  late 1980s and  early 1990s, salmon  farming in                                                                    
     other parts  of the  world was done  almost exclusively                                                                    
     offshore in large net pens.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Given  Alaska's  strong  wild salmon  stocks,  concerns                                                                    
     were  raised over  farmed salmon  competing for  market                                                                    
     share with wild salmon fisheries.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     In 1990,  the Alaska Legislature preemptively  passed a                                                                    
     ban  on commercial  salmon  and  other finfish  farming                                                                    
     under AS 16.40.210.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  VINCENT-LANG noted  that  this ban  was the  reason                                                               
salmon was not included in SB 108.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     [Slide  2   includes  a  photo  with   the  caption:  A                                                                    
     pioneering  Norwegian   fish  farm   in  1972/Wikimedia                                                                    
     Commons]                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:14:31 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER VINCENT-LANG moved to and  narrated slide 3. He said                                                               
the  main advantage  of on-shore  aquaculture was  isolation from                                                               
wild stocks. He said Norway was  the global leader in farmed fish                                                               
technology  and  production and  that  the  industry was  growing                                                               
rapidly.  He said  there were  already many  on-shore fish  farms                                                               
under consideration,  under construction or already  producing in                                                               
the United States:                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
[Original punctuation provided.]                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
                         Present Day &                                                                                        
                         New Technology                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
      Today, technology has rapidly advanced to the point                                                                       
         where companies are now raising and harvesting                                                                         
       commercial quantities of fish in large shore-based                                                                       
                          facilities.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     Fish farms moving onshore                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Land-based fish farming offers many benefits to both                                                                       
     the fish and the environment. In traditional offshore                                                                      
     farms, the fish are vulnerable to sea lice infestation                                                                     
     and infectious diseases. Modern land-based aquaculture                                                                     
     systems are able to offer local fish products in                                                                           
     landlocked countries.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Article published on Phys.org                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     The Future of Aquaculture: How Sustainable Fish                                                                          
     Farming is Transforming the Seafood Industry                                                                             
     August 26, 2024                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     Article published on Global Seafoods North America                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Analytics, genetics tech chart new direction for                                                                         
     aquaculture                                                                                                              
     February 16, 2022 By Nestor Arellano                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Article published on Aquaculture North America                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:15:17 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER VINCENT-LANG moved to and  narrated slide 4. He said                                                               
the  system  on the  slide  provided  continuously recircled  and                                                               
filtered  water within  the facility,  reducing  water usage  and                                                               
minimizing discharge. He said the  technology allowed for precise                                                               
control  over the  water  quality  parameters, providing  optimal                                                               
conditions for fish growth:                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
[Original punctuation provided.]                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
                         Present Day &                                                                                        
                         New Technology                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
      Technological advancements are transforming onshore                                                                       
      fish farming into a more efficient, sustainable, and                                                                      
                        humane industry.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     [Slide 4 includes a conceptual diagram and description                                                                     
         of: Digital Twin, a breakthrough for intensive                                                                         
      aquaculture, by Davide Ciravolo - April 24, 2024 in                                                                       
                        Innovation News]                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Recirculating Aquaculture Systems (RAS)                                                                                  
                                                                                                                              
     Advanced Sensor Technologies                                                                                             
                                                                                                                              
     Digital Twin Technology                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                              
COMMISSIONER  VINCENT-LANG explained  that  Digital Twin  systems                                                               
and advanced fish-monitoring  sensors enabled real-time oversight                                                               
of  fish  farms,  early  detection of  health  issues,  and  more                                                               
efficient  operations. He  said these  technologies could  create                                                               
new opportunities for Alaska.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                              
4:16:38 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER VINCENT-LANG moved to and narrated slide 5:                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
[Original punctuation provided.]                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Overview of SB 108                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     What does the bill do?                                                                                                   
     • Authorizes onshore farming of non-salmon finfish in                                                                      
        approved land-based facilities in Alaska                                                                                
     • Limited to inland, closed-system water body enclosed                                                                     
      within a natural or artificial escape-proof barrier                                                                       
         • Allows for a wide range of possible farming                                                                          
        opportunities for different fish species such as                                                                        
        trout, char, and grayling                                                                                               
      • ADF&G Commissioner has the authority to determine                                                                       
        what finfish can and cannot be farmed in Alaska and                                                                     
        may add additional permitting restrictions for                                                                          
        certain species                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
       [Slide 5 includes a photo with the caption: Indoor                                                                       
    fish   farm   facility.   Credit:   Shutterstock/Anirut                                                                     
     Krisanakul]                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:17:19 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER VINCENT-LANG moved to and narrated slide 6:                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
[Original punctuation provided.]                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     SB 108 Additional Safeguards                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     •  Offshore fish farming will continue to  be banned to                                                                    
        prevent any potential impacts on Alaska's wild fish                                                                     
        and fisheries                                                                                                           
     •  All fish kept at or sold from a finfish farm must be                                                                    
        triploid (sterile)                                                                                                      
     •  Fish  farming  activities  must  meet  all  existing                                                                    
        policies, including Fish Transport Permits and Fish                                                                     
        Health policies                                                                                                         
     •  Facilities and products are subject to Department of                                                                    
        Environmental    Conservation     regulations    and                                                                    
        permitting                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     [Slide 6  includes photos with the  caption: Icy Waters                                                                    
     Arctic   Charr  Fish   Farm  in   Whitehorse.  Pictures                                                                    
     courtesy of DCCED Deputy Commissioner Anna Latham]                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:18:00 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER VINCENT-LANG moved to and narrated slide 7:                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
[Original punctuation provided.]                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Benefits of Finfish Farming                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     •  Food Security: continuation  of Alaska's  efforts to                                                                  
        enhance food security for residents.                                                                                    
     •  Fishing  Opportunity:   stocking  activities   would                                                                  
        encourage   Alaskans   to   engage   in   additional                                                                    
        recreational fishing.                                                                                                   
     •  Economic  Growth:  introduces  a   new  industry  to                                                                  
      Alaska, creating jobs and diversifying our economy.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     [Slide 7 includes a photo  with the caption: Icy Waters                                                                    
     Arctic   Charr  Fish   Farm  in   Whitehorse.  Pictures                                                                    
     courtesy of DCCED Deputy Commissioner Anna Latham]                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:18:47 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER VINCENT-LANG moved to and narrated slide 8:                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
[Original punctuation provided.]                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Considerations                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     Some Alaskans  have reservations  about farmed  fish, a                                                                  
     perspective rooted in our culture                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     •  Farmed  fish  products  are  increasing  outside  of                                                                    
        Alaska, presenting a challenge to our fisheries                                                                         
     •  The key question is whether we choose to engage this                                                                    
        development or continue to overlook these products                                                                      
        that already exist in Alaska's markets                                                                                  
     •  If we address this issue, we must do so thoughtfully                                                                    
        and safely in a manner that ensures Alaska's wild                                                                       
        stock fisheries remain viable in the marketplace                                                                        
     •  This legislation is a starting point  to begin these                                                                    
        discussions                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     [Slide 8 includes a photo  with the caption: Icy Waters                                                                    
     Arctic   Charr  Fish   Farm  in   Whitehorse.  Pictures                                                                    
     courtesy of DCCED Deputy Commissioner Anna Latham]                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:19:46 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER   VINCENT-LANG  moved   to   slide  9,   Questions?,                                                               
concluding the  presentation on SB 108.  Before taking questions,                                                               
he  emphasized that  Alaska already  practiced  forms of  aquatic                                                               
farming like  fish farming  and had the  expertise to  expand. He                                                               
said  the current  cost  to produce  hatchery  rainbow trout  was                                                               
about  $4.50  each, but  current  laws  prevented exploring  fish                                                               
farming's  feasibility.  He advocated  for  lifting  the ban  and                                                               
allowing   Alaska  to   assess   viable   species  and   methods,                                                               
participate  in  a  growing multibillion-dollar  industry,  boost                                                               
food  security, and  support the  economy  while protecting  wild                                                               
fish.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:21:02 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR DUNBAR  asked to  return to slide  7. He  noted confusion                                                               
about  terminology and  said earlier  legislation  used the  term                                                               
"salmon" legally  applied to all  salmonids, including  trout and                                                               
char. He noted  that SB 108 also banned farming  of "salmon," yet                                                               
the presentation featured  an Arctic char farm  in Whitehorse. He                                                               
asked  whether  char was  considered  a  salmonid under  SB  108,                                                               
whether the  ban was  intended to  include char,  and why  a char                                                               
farm  was highlightedwhether   because  char  was biologically  a                                                               
salmonid or  simply because  char farming  was more  practical in                                                               
the Yukon Territory.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
4:22:56 PM                                                                                                                    
Joseph Felkl, Legislative  Liaison, Commissioner's Office, Alaska                                                               
Department  of Fish  and Game  (ADF&G), Juneau,  Alaska, answered                                                               
that salmon would  normally be included among  bony fish species.                                                               
He  emphasized that  Pink Salmon,  Chum  salmon, Sockeye  salmon,                                                               
Coho salmon, Chinook salmon or  Atlantic salmon were all excluded                                                               
by statute, [AS 16.40.230 (1)].                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:23:35 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR DUNBAR  asked whether the photo  [slide 7] of a  char was                                                               
an Atlantic salmon.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER VINCENT-LANG answered that it was not.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:23:43 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR DUNBAR  said it was  his understanding that  char farming                                                               
was  closely related  to salmon  farming and  asked whether  char                                                               
farming would be allowed by SB 108.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:23:49 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER  VINCENT-LANG  said  it  would  up  to  the  [Alaska                                                               
Department of  Fish and Game  (ADF&G)] commissioner  to determine                                                               
whether char farming would be permitted.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:24:05 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI  noted all  pictures were indoors.  He asked                                                               
whether  SB 108  would also  apply  to ponds,  rivers, etc.  that                                                               
don't connect to salmon bearing streams.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER VINCENT-LANG  affirmed that the facility  would have                                                               
to  be  enclosed and  unavailable  to  connect to  an  anadromous                                                               
waterway.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:24:39 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER  VINCENT-LANG  said  it  would  be  possible  for  a                                                               
hydroponic facility  with an adjacent  pond to use the  pond [for                                                               
fish farming] as long as [the pond] was enclosed.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:24:49 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI  expressed concern  and pointed  to numerous                                                               
examples of ecological  harm from invasive or  escaped species in                                                               
U.S. waters,  such as sea  lampreys and  Asian carp in  the Great                                                               
Lakes and  escaped farmed rainbow trout  from net-pen aquaculture                                                               
in  Lake  Huron competing  with  wild  trout. He  questioned  the                                                               
reliability  of  using  sterile  triploid  fish  in  aquaculture,                                                               
noting  studies  showing  that  triploids  were  not  always  100                                                               
percent sterile and that some had successfully reproduced.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:25:44 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER  VINCENT-LANG acknowledged  instances of  tilapia or                                                               
catfish escaping  and reproducing.  He said, as  commissioner, he                                                               
would  exercise  extreme  caution  about  allowing  [tilapia  and                                                               
catfish] in outdoor ponds in Alaska.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
4:26:02 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI noted  mention of  tilapia by  the governor                                                               
and  expressed concern  about reports  of  parasites and  disease                                                               
that could  potentially pose  a risk to  native species.  He also                                                               
mentioned  that  antibiotics were  used  to  treat [tilapia].  He                                                               
asked whether SB 108 addressed  the use of antibiotics for farmed                                                               
fish.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:26:34 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER  VINCENT-LANG said  there  was  not anything  [about                                                               
antibiotics in  SB 108.  He emphasized that  any fish  sold would                                                               
have to be  certified healthy by the  Department of Environmental                                                               
Conservation. He  recounted an example of  an aquaponics operator                                                               
in the Mat-Su  Valley who was allowed to keep  tilapia in a fully                                                               
enclosed Conex  system but was  prohibited from selling  them. He                                                               
explained  that, even  in highly  secure  indoor facilities  with                                                               
minimal escape risk, regulations restrict the sale of fish.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:27:36 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR MYERS  noted the mention  of farmed fish  currently being                                                               
sold in Alaska  stores. He asked which species were  coming in to                                                               
the state to be sold and  whether an annual estimate of the value                                                               
of those sales was available.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  VINCENT-LANG said  he did  not have  a list  of the                                                               
species coming in to  the state for sale but had  seen a video by                                                               
the governor  which mentioned several.  He said the  question was                                                               
whether the preference  was to continue importing  fish to Alaska                                                               
or grow them in  state. He said he did not know  the value of the                                                               
market.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:28:31 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR MYERS asked  about the value of shellfish  sold in Alaska                                                               
and  what percentage  of  the  shellfish sold  in  the state  was                                                               
farmed in-state.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:28:54 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER VINCENT-LANG said he did  not know but would provide                                                               
the percentage and value of in-state shellfish to the committee.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:28:58 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  DUNBAR argued  that while  SB  108 specifically  [banned                                                               
salmonids  from farming],  many other  fish that  resemble salmon                                                               
would still  be allowed. He suggested  that if the intent  was to                                                               
prevent farming of  salmon or salmon-like species, it  may need a                                                               
broader exception or ban like the legislation passed in 2024.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:29:49 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER  VINCENT-LANG observed  a quandary  - that  Alaska's                                                               
fish-growing experience was mostly  with salmon and trout through                                                               
sport-fish hatchery  programs, but  other species that  pose less                                                               
environmental risklike  catfish or  tilapiawould  likely be grown                                                               
in enclosed  hydroponic systems, where escapees  wouldn't survive                                                               
or reproduce.  However, Alaska had  little experience  with these                                                               
species,  and  it  was  unclear whether  raising  them  would  be                                                               
economically  viable.  He  emphasized  that  the  bans  prevented                                                               
testing economic feasibility. He said  SB 108 would simply create                                                               
an  opportunity  for Alaskans  to  try.  He advocated  for  safe,                                                               
contained aquaculture  and opposition  to offshore  fish farming,                                                               
and  noted  that  salmon  farming   remained  excluded  to  avoid                                                               
competition  with  wild  salmon,  while farming  trout  would  be                                                               
allowed because  Alaska already had  experience raising  them and                                                               
they were available in the market.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
4:31:29 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR KAWASAKI  observed that there were  almost 29,000 species                                                               
in the  Osteichthyes class of  finfish. He asked how  ADF&G would                                                               
examine requests  for a particular  species in relation  to where                                                               
it would  be contained,  for example  in a lake  or in  a private                                                               
holding situation.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
4:32:01 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER VINCENT-LANG  explained that regulators  would treat                                                               
farmed  fish  similarly to  how  they  evaluate fish  stocked  in                                                               
private  ponds under  the fish  transport  permit (FTP)  process:                                                               
they  assess   whether  fish   could  escape,   require  triploid                                                               
(sterile) fish  if there is any  risk, and block permits  if fish                                                               
show  signs of  disease. He  said species  like tilapia  wouldn't                                                               
survive  in  Alaska outdoors  and  would  need indoor  hydroponic                                                               
systems. He said  the viability of growing  such species depended                                                               
on energy, feed, and labor costs.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:32:58 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR KAWASAKI  noted that  SB 108  specified that  all finfish                                                               
acquired,  purchased,   offered  to  purchase,   transferred,  or                                                               
possessed would be triploid. He asked for clarification.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  VINCENT-LANG concurred  that SB  108 required  that                                                               
all species be triploid. He  said he was referring to legislation                                                               
passed in 2024  that allowed residents to keep fish  in a private                                                               
pond for  their own purposes.  He emphasized that they  would not                                                               
be  able  to  sell  those  fish but  could  have  them  for  food                                                               
security.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:33:33 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR KAWASAKI  asked how regulators would  determine whether a                                                               
site  had  adequate positive  control  or  natural or  artificial                                                               
barriers to prevent fish escapes.  He raised the example of lakes                                                               
in flood  zones, noting that  species such as pike  likely spread                                                               
during  flooding.   He  asked   how  regulations   would  address                                                               
situations  where  flooding  could  connect  isolated  waters  to                                                               
rivers and allow fish to escape.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  VINCENT-LANG said  escape  prevention would  likely                                                               
mirror the  containment methods used for  sewage treatment ponds:                                                               
engineered  dike systems  with  double barriers  so  that if  one                                                               
fails,  another  remains.  He  emphasized that  SB  108  was  not                                                               
intended  to threaten  wild fisheries  or  compete with  Alaska's                                                               
wild seafood  industry. He  suggested that  effective containment                                                               
designs, drawn  from water-treatment facilities and  fish farming                                                               
facilities in other countries,  would guide permitting decisions.                                                               
He  said he  expected most  new operations  to begin  as enclosed                                                               
hydroponic systems.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:34:57 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  KAWASAKI  asked  whether  the  administration  would  be                                                               
amenable to establishing sideboards  that specifically define and                                                               
address positive control.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER VINCENT-LANG  said SB 108  was intended to  open the                                                               
discussion  [about  finfish  farming  in  Alaska].  He  said  the                                                               
administration would certainly welcome any insights or thoughts.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:35:19 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  KAWASAKI  noted  that  there  was  a  current  steelhead                                                               
population  in  Alaska  and  that steelhead  were  known  to  mix                                                               
interspecies with other  types of trout. He asked  how that would                                                               
be  prevented  and noted  the  value  of preserving  the  natural                                                               
steelhead population.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER VINCENT-LANG  concurred. He noted that  steelhead in                                                               
Alaska  likely  escaped  from  farm  pens  in  river  systems  or                                                               
offshore, which were  not supported by SB 108.  He explained that                                                               
growing steelhead to  a catchable size in  Alaska required heated                                                               
water  and  likely  an  indoor  environment.  He  suggested  that                                                               
offshore  farming   could  significantly   reduce  costs   for  a                                                               
statewide hatchery.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:36:39 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR   CLAMAN  asked   whether   businesses   had  asked   for                                                               
legislation like SB 108 or if  ADF&G was promoting it in hopes of                                                               
attracting commercial interest.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER VINCENT-LANG  responded that aside from  the case of                                                               
a man  raising tilapia  in a hydroponic  facility, which  he said                                                               
the state  had to shut down,  there had not been  anyone actively                                                               
seeking immediate approval to start  such operations. However, he                                                               
noted increasing  interest related  to food  security, especially                                                               
after  COVID-19,  and a  broader  global  trend toward  expanding                                                               
farmed  fish  production.  He   emphasized  that  aquaculture  is                                                               
growing  worldwide and  competing with  Alaska's wild  fisheries,                                                               
and the state  must decide whether to continue  prohibiting it or                                                               
open  the door  to using  Alaska's clean  water and  workforce to                                                               
participate in that market.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:38:04 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR CLAMAN  recent legislation  to allow limited  stocking of                                                               
lakes with  fish. He  asked whether  anyone had  done any  of the                                                               
stocking authorized by that legislation.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:38:25 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER  VINCENT-LANG said  there was  interest from  people                                                               
who want  to buy fish  for stocking, but private  nonprofit (PNP)                                                               
hatcheries hadn't  created a way  to sell  fish to them.  He said                                                               
the Kodiak  hatchery was exploring  whether producing  extra fish                                                               
for  sale could  be  economically viable,  but  currently no  PNP                                                               
hatchery has stepped forward to meet the demand.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:38:59 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  MYERS noted  ban  on  farming fish  for  food. He  asked                                                               
whether someone could sell fish  as pets, for example, the person                                                               
who raised goldfish in his hydroponic system.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER   VINCENT-LANG  answered   that   the  current   ban                                                               
prohibited the sale of farmed fish.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:39:40 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR HUGHES  appreciated innovative  ideas that  could improve                                                               
Alaska's  food  security.  She acknowledged  that  many  Alaskans                                                               
naturally preferred  wild fish and  were culturally  resistant to                                                               
fish farming. She shared anecdotes  about how common fish farming                                                               
was in  other states,  like Arkansas  and South  Carolina, though                                                               
she  personally  did  not  prefer farmed  fish.  She  pointed  to                                                               
Alaska's  current  challenges  with   salmon  shortages  and  the                                                               
importance of  preventing the spread  of disease  or interactions                                                               
with wild stocks if aquaculture  were allowed. She asked how fish                                                               
were  made triploid  (sterile) and  what processes  and oversight                                                               
would  ensure  they remained  sterile,  given  concerns that,  in                                                               
other states, sterility requirements weren't always achieved.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:42:15 PM                                                                                                                    
COMMISSIONER  VINCENT-LANG recalled  from  a  hatchery tour  that                                                               
sterility   was  created   by   temperature-shocking  the   eggs,                                                               
producing triploid  (sterile) fish. Afterward,  hatcheries tested                                                               
samples  to  confirm  they  were  fully  triploid.  He  said  the                                                               
sterility rate must  be 100 percent for the fish  to be released.                                                               
He  said  this  method  was   used  in  Anchorage  and  Fairbanks                                                               
hatcheries,  where nearly  all fish  stocked in  local lakes  for                                                               
recreation are triploid.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:42:53 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR   GIESSEL  thanked   the  commissioner   for  the   SB  108                                                               
presentation.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:43:17 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR GIESSEL opened public testimony on SB 108.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:43:47 PM                                                                                                                    
JOHNNY FISHMONGER,  Executive Director, Wild Salmon  Nation, King                                                               
Salmon, Alaska,  testified in  opposition to SB  108. He  said he                                                               
had  been  fishing  in  Alaska since  1981  and  emphasized  that                                                               
Alaska's waters  remain among the  last pristine places  for wild                                                               
fish.  He warned  that multinational  aquaculture companies  were                                                               
eager  to expand  into  Alaska  and was  grateful  the state  had                                                               
prevented  offshore  finfish farming.  He  argued  that the  core                                                               
issue  was  economic:  Alaska fisheries  faced  historically  low                                                               
prices,  and  introducing more  farmed  fish  would further  harm                                                               
small,  family-run  wild fisheries.  He  noted  that when  global                                                               
farmed salmon production surpassed wild  salmon in 1993, it dealt                                                               
a major blow to Alaska's jobs, tax revenue, and fisheries.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:46:26 PM                                                                                                                    
JILL  WEITZ,  Government  Affairs  Liaison,  Central  Council  of                                                               
Tlingit  and  Haida  Indian Tribes  of  Alaska,  Juneau,  Alaska,                                                               
testified  in  opposition  to  SB108.  She  argued  that  SB  108                                                               
introduced  unnecessary  risks  to  water and  air  quality  from                                                               
waste, feed,  antibiotics, and pesticides  used in  fish farming.                                                               
She expressed concern that SB  108 could allow non-native species                                                               
to  be  farmed,  strain  already  limited  regulatory  resources,                                                               
undermine local  fishing families  and traditional ways  of life,                                                               
and open  the door to salmon  farming. She cited harms  from fish                                                               
farming  to  salmon  and ecosystems  in  Canada.  She  emphasized                                                               
Tlingit  and Haida's  commitment to  supporting sustainable  wild                                                               
fisheries with the  Alaska Department of Fish and  Game and urged                                                               
the committee to reject SB 108.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:48:53 PM                                                                                                                    
MELANIE BROWN,  representing self,  Juneau, Alaska,  testified in                                                               
opposition to  SB 108. She  said she  operated a set-net  site in                                                               
Bristol  Bay  since  1979.  She  recalled  that  finfish  farming                                                               
previously undercut  the earnings  of independent  fishermen just                                                               
as  they were  beginning to  make  a living  wage. Allowing  fish                                                               
farming in  Alaska felt insulting  to her  and she said  it would                                                               
further damage  the economics of  the fishing profession  as well                                                               
as  weaken  the  Alaska  brand of  "wild,  natural,  sustainable"                                                               
seafood  as  it was  promoted  by  the Alaska  Seafood  Marketing                                                               
Institute  (ASMI). She  noted that  Alaska lacked  the processing                                                               
capacity  to  fully process  its  wild  catch; most  Bristol  Bay                                                               
salmon  were   only  headed  and  gutted   before  being  shipped                                                               
overseas. She raised  doubts that the state  could process farmed                                                               
fish and  argued that if  processing capacity existed  for farmed                                                               
fish,  it should  instead be  used to  process Alaska's  existing                                                               
wild  stocks, improving  food security  and  supporting the  wild                                                               
fish industry.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
4:51:16 PM                                                                                                                    
ADAM  CUTHRIELL, representing  self, Girdwood,  Alaska, testified                                                               
in opposition to  SB 108. He said he was  a fly-fishing guide who                                                               
worked across  Alaska. He argued  that fish farming  was contrary                                                               
to Alaska's identity  and would endanger native  wild fish, which                                                               
he said were the reason  people traveled to Alaska. He emphasized                                                               
that strong Fish  & Game management and healthy  wild stocks made                                                               
Alaska fishing destinations globally  unique. He pointed out that                                                               
sport  fishing and  recreational  tourism  generated billions  of                                                               
dollars  and  supported  many  jobs   in  Alaska.  He  urged  the                                                               
committee to oppose SB 108.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:52:45 PM                                                                                                                    
SUSAN  GEORGINA  STEVENS,  representing self,  Wrangell,  Alaska,                                                               
testified in  opposition to SB 108.  She cited an article  by Jay                                                               
Bergquist  and S.  Gunnarsson on  the  environmental and  ethical                                                               
impacts  of  finfish  aquaculture.   According  to  the  article,                                                               
numerous  studies  showed  that  fish  farming  harmed  both  the                                                               
environment  and   the  farmed  fish  themselves.   The  research                                                               
identified five major areas of  negative impact: declines in wild                                                               
fish  populations, waste  and chemical  pollution, habitat  loss,                                                               
disease  transmission, and  the introduction  of exotic  species.                                                               
She  argued  that  these well-documented  harms  provided  strong                                                               
reasons for the committee to reject SB 108.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:54:50 PM                                                                                                                    
MATTHEW  JONES, representing  self, Anchorage,  Alaska, testified                                                               
in opposition to SB 108.  He said salmon farming contradicted the                                                               
values and  policies that  make Alaska unique.  He noted  that no                                                               
members of the  public testified in favor of SB  108 and stressed                                                               
that  while fish  farming may  create  some jobs,  it could  also                                                               
threaten  many existing  ones  if farmed  fish  escape or  spread                                                               
disease, especially given Alaska's  already stressed wild stocks.                                                               
He pointed  out that tourism  alone supported about  48,000 jobs,                                                               
many tied to healthy wild  fisheries. He argued that policymakers                                                               
should focus  on urgent  issues like  bycatch, which  was killing                                                               
large numbers  of salmon, rather  than pursuing fish  farming. He                                                               
urged  the committee  to consider  the severe  risks and  restore                                                               
public trust  by prioritizing the  protection of  Alaska's native                                                               
fish.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:57:11 PM                                                                                                                    
NORMAN PILLEN,  President, Seafood Producers  Cooperative, Sitka,                                                               
Alaska, testified  in opposition  to SB 108.  He said  members of                                                               
the cooperative processed all five  species of Pacific salmon and                                                               
argued  that global  fish farming  already dominated  the market,                                                               
with  farmed   salmon  making  up   over  90  percent   of  world                                                               
production. He  said large  volumes were  imported into  the U.S.                                                               
and  said  this competition  depressed  prices.  Although SB  108                                                               
excluded  salmon  farming, he  opined  that  allowing farming  of                                                               
species like  steelhead or  trout would  still compete  with wild                                                               
salmon and  eventually lead to  pressure to allow  farmed salmon.                                                               
He argued  that this  would harm  Alaska's wild  fisheries, which                                                               
the state has long supported.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:59:41 PM                                                                                                                    
JUDITH PHILLIPS, representing self,  Kodiak, Alaska, testified in                                                               
opposition  to  SB  108.   She  acknowledged  the  commissioner's                                                               
argument   that  fish   farming  was   expanding  globally,   but                                                               
maintained that SB 108 posed  serious risks to Alaska's wild fish                                                               
stocks and that fish farming  was simply too dangerous to pursue,                                                               
even with  proposed enforcement  measures. She  cautioned against                                                               
opening  the  door to  future  salmon  farming. She  thanked  the                                                               
committee  for  their careful  consideration  and  urged them  to                                                               
reject SB 108.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
5:01:15 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR GIESSEL held SB 108 in committee.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
5:01:43 PM                                                                                                                    
There being no further business to come before the committee,                                                                   
Chair Giessel adjourned the Senate Resources Standing Committee                                                                 
meeting at 5:01 p.m.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
SB0097A.pdf SRES 3/10/2025 3:30:00 PM
SB 97
SB 97 Fiscal Note ADFG Support.pdf SRES 3/10/2025 3:30:00 PM
SB 97
SB 97 Fiscal Note ADFG.pdf SRES 3/10/2025 3:30:00 PM
SB 97
SB 97 Fiscal Note DNR.pdf SRES 3/10/2025 3:30:00 PM
SB 97
Explanation of Changes SB 97-SSSB253.pdf SFIN 4/25/2025 9:00:00 AM
SRES 3/10/2025 3:30:00 PM
SB 97
SB 253
SB 97 Combined Historical Documents Provided by (S)RES 2.26.25.pdf SFIN 4/25/2025 9:00:00 AM
SRES 3/10/2025 3:30:00 PM
SB 97
SB 97 Committee Sectional Anlysis.pdf SFIN 4/25/2025 9:00:00 AM
SRES 3/10/2025 3:30:00 PM
SB 97
SB 97 Comments Resident Hunters of Alaska.pdf SFIN 4/25/2025 9:00:00 AM
SRES 3/10/2025 3:30:00 PM
SB 97
SB 108 Fiscal Note ADFG.pdf SRES 3/10/2025 3:30:00 PM
SB 108
SB 108 Fiscal Note DEC.pdf SRES 3/10/2025 3:30:00 PM
SB 108
SB0108A.pdf SRES 3/10/2025 3:30:00 PM
SB 108
SB108 Sectional Analysis Version A 02.25.25.pdf SRES 3/10/2025 3:30:00 PM
SB 108
SB108 Transmittal Letter Version A 02.20.25.pdf SRES 3/10/2025 3:30:00 PM
SB 108
ADFG SB108 Overview Presentation 03.10.25.pdf SRES 3/10/2025 3:30:00 PM
SB 108
SB 97 Committee Sponsor Statement .pdf SRES 3/10/2025 3:30:00 PM
SB 97