Legislature(2023 - 2024)BUTROVICH 205
01/24/2024 03:30 PM Senate RESOURCES
Note: the audio ![]()
and video ![]()
recordings are distinct records and are obtained from different sources. As such there may be key differences between the two. The audio recordings are captured by our records offices as the official record of the meeting and will have more accurate timestamps. Use the icons to switch between them.
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB125 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | HB 125 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
SENATE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE
January 24, 2024
3:31 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Click Bishop, Co-Chair
Senator Cathy Giessel, Co-Chair
Senator Bill Wielechowski, Vice Chair
Senator James Kaufman
Senator Forrest Dunbar
Senator Matt Claman
Senator Scott Kawasaki
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
COMMITTEE SUBSTITUTE FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 125(RES)
"An Act relating to trapping cabins on state land; and relating
to trapping cabin permit fees."
- HEARD & HELD
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: HB 125
SHORT TITLE: TRAPPING CABINS ON STATE LAND
SPONSOR(s): RESOURCES
03/20/23 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
03/20/23 (H) RES, FIN
03/27/23 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124
03/27/23 (H) Heard & Held
03/27/23 (H) MINUTE(RES)
03/29/23 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124
03/29/23 (H) Heard & Held
03/29/23 (H) MINUTE(RES)
04/03/23 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124
04/03/23 (H) -- MEETING CANCELED --
04/05/23 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124
04/05/23 (H) -- MEETING CANCELED --
04/12/23 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124
04/12/23 (H) Moved CSHB 125(RES) Out of Committee
04/12/23 (H) MINUTE(RES)
04/14/23 (H) RES RPT CS(RES) 7DP 2NR
04/14/23 (H) DP: MEARS, ARMSTRONG, DIBERT, SADDLER,
WRIGHT, RAUSCHER, MCKAY
04/14/23 (H) NR: MCCABE, PATKOTAK
04/27/23 (H) FIN AT 1:30 PM ADAMS 519
04/27/23 (H) Heard & Held
04/27/23 (H) MINUTE(FIN)
05/04/23 (H) FIN AT 1:30 PM ADAMS 519
05/04/23 (H) Moved CSHB 125(RES) Out of Committee
05/04/23 (H) MINUTE(FIN)
05/08/23 (H) FIN RPT CS(RES) 8DP 1AM
05/08/23 (H) DP: TOMASZEWSKI, CRONK, ORTIZ, GALVIN,
STAPP, EDGMON, D.JOHNSON, FOSTER
05/08/23 (H) AM: JOSEPHSON
05/13/23 (H) TRANSMITTED TO (S)
05/13/23 (H) VERSION: CSHB 125(RES)
05/15/23 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
05/15/23 (S) RES, FIN
01/24/24 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
WITNESS REGISTER
REPRESENTATIVE TOM MCKAY, District 15
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented HB 125 as Chair of the House
Resources Committee.
TREVOR JEPSEN, Staff
Representative Tom McKay
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided the Sectional Analysis for HB 125
and answered questions.
RANDALL ZARNKE, President
Alaska Trappers Association (ATA)
Fairbanks, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 125.
CHRISTY COLLES, Director
Division of Mining, Land and Water
Department of Natural Resources (DNR)
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions on trapping cabin
regulations.
ACTION NARRATIVE
3:31:33 PM
CO-CHAIR CLICK BISHOP called the Senate Resources Standing
Committee meeting to order at 3:31 p.m. Present at the call to
order were Senators Wielechowski, Kaufman, Dunbar, Claman, Co-
Chair Bishop, and Co-Chair Giessel. Senator Kawasaki arrived
thereafter.
HB 125-TRAPPING CABINS ON STATE LAND
3:32:19 PM
CO-CHAIR BISHOP announced the consideration of CS FOR HOUSE BILL
NO. 125(RES) "An Act relating to trapping cabins on state land;
and relating to trapping cabin permit fees."
3:32:53 PM
REPRESENTATIVE TOM MCKAY, District 15, Alaska State Legislature,
Juneau, Alaska, presented HB 125 as Chair of the House Resources
Committee.
3:33:25 PM
SENATOR KAWASAKI joined the meeting.
3:33:53 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MCKAY read the sponsor statement for HB 125.
[Original punctuation provided.]
SPONSOR STATEMENT
Alaska has a rich history of trapping which far pre-
dates the founding of our state. Trappers who run long
lines in remote areas need cabins for shelter. These
cabins are small, basic domiciles which serve as
shelter in Alaska's harsh weather conditions. Roughly
three decades ago, trapper advocates worked with the
legislature to implement a program which allowed for
the construction of trapper cabins on state lands (AS
38.95.075 AS 38.95.085). Over the years, issues have
been identified with that program which require
statutory amendments. This bill would address several
problems relating to Trapping Cabin Construction
Permits (TCCP).
HB 125 updates the outdated statutes associated with
receiving a TCCP and incorporates the use of existing
trapping cabins on State lands. Current Statute does
not allow the Department to issue permits for already
constructed cabins. This bill would close that gap so
all permits will be issued as Trapping Cabin Permits,
covering both construction of a new cabin and allowing
the continued use for an existing cabin.
As Alaskans, we have a unique respect for traditional
ways of life, such as trapping. I urge my fellow
colleagues of the 33rd legislature to support this
legislation to help Alaskan trappers.
3:36:18 PM
TREVOR JEPSEN, Staff, Representative Tom McKay, Alaska State
Legislature, Juneau, Alaska, provided the Sectional Analysis for
HB 125 and answered questions. He spoke to slide 2.
[Original punctuation provided.]
Trapping Cabin Permit Process
• Trapping cabin permits currently issued under two
statutes
AS 38.95.075 Permits for the Use of Trapping Cabins
AS 38.95.080 Trapping Cabin Construction Permits
Statutes create unnecessary confusion in permitting
process and restricts DNR from permitting cabins under
certain scenarios
3:36:51 PM
MR. JEPSEN moved to slide 3:
[Original punctuation provided.]
AS 38.95.075 Permits for the Use of Trapping Cabins
• AS 38.95.075 states how the DNR issues permits for
cabins that already exist
• Issue arises with cabins that have lapsed in
ownership/use or have been abandoned
• DNR unable to issues new trapping cabin permits in
these scenarios
3:38:15 PM
MR. JEPSEN moved to slide 4:
[Original punctuation provided.]
AS 38.95.080 Trapping Cabin Construction Permits
• AS 38.95.080 authorizes the DNR issues permits for
the construction of new trapping cabins
1. The person must have an established trapline with
proof of regular use;
2. The person must have a trapline of sufficient
length to justify the need for cabin construction
• 38.95.080 also outlines responsibilities of the
department and additional requirements and
restrictions for trapping cabin construction permits
3:38:49 PM
MR. JEPSEN read from slide 5 providing an overview of HB 125.
[Original punctuation provided.]
HB 125 Highlights
• HB 125 revises AS 38.95.080 (Trapping Cabin
Construction Permits) to include all trapping cabin
permit situations and repeals AS 38.95.075 (Permits
for the Use of Trapping Cabins)
• Allows the DNR to permit existing cabins on state
lands
• Updates application fee schedule and sets all
related fees in statute
• Provides further clarity than current statute for
issuing trapping cabin permits
• HB 125 was the result of the House Resources
Committee working with DNR and the Alaska Trappers
Association
3:40:05 PM
CO-CHAIR BISHOP opened invited testimony on HB 125.
3:40:40 PM
RANDALL ZARNKE, President, Alaska Trappers Association (ATA),
Fairbanks, Alaska, testified in support of HB 125. The Alaska
Trappers Association (ATA) represents over 120 members. The
existing system for trapping cabins was created in 1983 by ATA
and DNR, but members have expressed complaints within the past
ten years about the renewal obstacle for existing cabins.
Conversations were held with DNR staff to address the issue that
the original legislation did not allow them to renew permits. HB
125 would increase yearly permit fees and ensure stability to
the permit system. Not all trappers need a cabin, but cabins are
essential for survival when running long trap lines. The bill
would benefit both urban and rural trappers. It solves a problem
for those seeking a traditional lifestyle.
MR. JEPSEN stated that Section 1 is broad and there were
concerns starting on page 2, line 1. This bill only clarifies
that the commissioner must abide by the permitting fee
regulations. He read the following sectional analysis for HB
125:
[Original punctuation provided.]
Sectional Analysis for Version P
"An Act relating to trapping cabins on state land; and
relating to trapping cabin permit fees."
Sec. 1 Conforming change to incorporate the new AS
38.95.080(g) (section 6 of this bill) into the fee
schedule regulations under AS 38.05.850(a).
Sec. 2 & 3 Restructures the existing AS 38.05.080(a)
and (b), which authorize the commissioner to issue
trapping cabin permits. Also clarifies who is entitled
to a permit for existing cabins on state lands.
Sec. 4 Clarifies the conditions for a permit that must
be included in regulations. This clarification
includes: 1. Providing more guidance on permit
renewals 2. Detailing the process for multiple cabins
under the same permit 3. Specifying a procedure for
unowned cabins 4. Setting statutory fee limits for the
permits 5. Making several technical drafting changes
Sec. 5 Provides more explicit language to ensure that
a use permit cannot be misinterpreted as providing
ownership rights or preference rights to future
ownership.
Sec. 6 Creates two new subsections, which: 1. Further
define the nonexclusive nature of the permit by
stating that the director may issue multiple trapping
cabin permits for the use of the same cabin. 2. Bars
the department from charging additional land use fees
for the use or construction of a trapping cabin.
Sec. 7 Conforming and technical changes to the
definitions section.
3:46:22 PM
MR. JEPSEN noted that there are two stipulations under Section
5.
3:46:58 PM
CO-CHAIR GIESSEL asked if the DNR would like to establish an
effective date for HB 125.
3:47:06 PM
MR. JEPSEN said he believes that the DNR would likely prefer an
effective immediate date.
3:47:21 PM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked for clarification on HB 125 Section
4(c)(3) regarding construction authorization with regards to
total square footage.
3:48:00 PM
MR. JEPSEN replied that the DNR would like the ability to issue
trapping permits to out of use, trespass, or abandoned cabins.
It offers a layer of oversight since they can't be monitored
constantly and would help the cabins be in use.
3:48:25 PM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked if there are already existing cabins
on state land.
3:48:35 PM
MR. DEPSEN said that there are abandoned cabins in current use,
for which the DNR would like to issue permits.
3:48:53 PM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked for the number of abandoned cabins in
use.
3:48:56 PM
MR. JEPSEN relayed that he does not have an exact number, but
there are currently 76 trapping cabin permits issued, including
some suspensions.
3:49:18 PM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked how the 76 permit holders obtained
the cabins. He also asked if multiple permit leases could be
issued for one cabin.
3:49:37 PM
MR. JEPSEN said that the 76 permit holders include passed down
and construction permits. The DNR could permit multiple permits
for an existing cabin. However, if the cabin was initially a
construction cabin, the DNR would need to acquire authorization
from the constructor.
3:50:26 PM
SENATOR CLAMAN asked if HB 125 would allow two permits to be
issued for a construction cabin.
3:50:47 PM
MR. JEPSEN replied no. The current statute requires the
constructor's permission.
3:51:02 PM
SENATOR CLAMAN asked for clarification on the current statute
compared to HB 125.
3:51:09 PM
MR. JEPSEN responded that the legislation conforms with current
statute.
3:51:19 PM
SENATOR CLAMAN asked if the requirement applies to existing
cabins larger than 400 square feet.
3:51:32 PM
MR. JEPSEN replied that the problem with the current statue is
that the DNR could not permit existing cabins unless regular use
is demonstrated prior to August 1, 1984.
3:51:54 PM
SENATOR CLAMAN asked if old cabins could be leased to multiple
people without demonstrating usage prior to 1984.
3:52:08 PM
MR. JEPSEN stated that it is his current understanding, but
deferred to the Director of the Division of Mining, Land and
Water.
3:52:29 PM
CHRISTY COLLES, Director, Division of Mining, Land and Water,
Department of Natural Resources (DNR), Anchorage, Alaska, said
that if a lessee demonstrated use prior to 1984, the DNR could
issue multiple permits, but it is a rare occasion.
3:53:06 PM
CO-CHAIR BISHOP asked what guidelines the DNR uses to establish
proof of regular use.
3:53:22 PM
MS. COLLES replied that there are several avenues to demonstrate
proof including, ceiling receipts from Fish and Game, proof of
fur sales, photos of furs, and tax returns Not everyone sells
all the furs each year so there are a variety of options.
3:53:52 PM
CO-CHAIR BISHOP asked about the DNR's protocol for determining
sufficient distance to justify the need for a cabin.
3:54:09 PM
MS. COLLES replied that determinations are made on a case-by-
case base. The department considers the surrounding geography
and complications an applicant might encounter.
3:54:49 PM
CO-CHAIR BISHOP suggested that to avoid excluding use groups,
such as mushers, snowshoers, and skiers, the DNR does not set
distance thresholds.
3:55:24 PM
MS. COLLES said that the DNR regulations exclude authorization
of cabins within two miles of an existing cabin unless a
physical barrier exists. The department also considers whether a
cabin is at least ten miles from a road.
3:55:55 PM
CO-CHAIR Bishop added that cabins are beneficial amidst freezing
temperatures.
3:56:11 PM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked if Alaskans could use cabins during
the off-trapping season considering high demand and low supply.
3:56:47 PM
MR. JEPSEN deferred to Ms. Colles.
3:56:52 PM
MS. COLLES replied that the DNR does not currently allow
recreational use. There is no reservation system in place. Given
the low cost of trapping permits for cabins, the DNR would like
to limit usage to trapping activities. There are other
authorizations for commercial use on state land. Recently, the
Governor submitted a bill regarding a remote recreational site,
which would allow everyday Alaskans to have a cabin on state
land.
3:57:43 PM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI wondered if certain areas could be
designated for public use.
3:58:20 PM
MS. COLLES replied that some companies have requested a cabin
rental on state land. The DNR can authorize companies and non-
profits to establish cabins for recreation and safety use.
3:58:54 PM
SENATOR KAWASAKI asked for confirmation that the 10-mile off-
road requirement on the application is in regulation.
3:59:15 PM
MS. COLLES replied that it is in regulation. If the statute
passes, the DNR would consider updating regulations.
3:59:25 PM
SENATOR KAWASAKI requested a list comparing all the ways to
acquire a permitted cabin or staked property on public land
whether the cabins are commercial or non-commercial.
4:00:48 PM
CO-CHAIR GIESSEL asked Ms. Colles whether an effective date is
desired.
4:01:00 PM
MS. COLLES responded that an immediate date would be appreciated
as there are many pending trapping cabin applicants.
4:01:21 PM
CO-CHAIR BISHOP held HB 125 for future consideration.
4:01:43 PM
There being no further business to come before the committee,
Co-Chair Bishop adjourned the Senate Resources Standing
Committee meeting at 4:01 p.m.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| HB125 Sponsor Statement Ver. P 01.24.24.pdf |
SRES 1/24/2024 3:30:00 PM |
HB 125 |
| HB 125 Sectional Analysis Ver. P 01.24.24.pdf |
SRES 1/24/2024 3:30:00 PM |
HB 125 |
| HB125 Summary of Changes (R to P) 4.17.23.pdf |
HFIN 4/27/2023 1:30:00 PM SRES 1/24/2024 3:30:00 PM |
HB 125 |
| HB 125 Fiscal Note DNR 01.24.24.pdf |
SRES 1/24/2024 3:30:00 PM |
HB 125 |
| HB 125 SRES Presentation Slides 01.24.24.pdf |
SRES 1/24/2024 3:30:00 PM |
HB 125 |
| HB 125 Support Document - Cabins Map 01.24.24.pdf |
SRES 1/24/2024 3:30:00 PM |
HB 125 |