Legislature(2017 - 2018)BUTROVICH 205
03/12/2018 03:30 PM Senate RESOURCES
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB211 | |
| SJR13 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | SB 211 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | SJR 13 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
SENATE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE
March 12, 2018
3:30 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Cathy Giessel, Chair
Senator John Coghill, Vice Chair
Senator Natasha von Imhof
Senator Bert Stedman
Senator Kevin Meyer
Senator Click Bishop
MEMBERS ABSENT
Senator Bill Wielechowski
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE FOR SENATE BILL NO. 211
"An Act relating to the temporary transfer of limited entry
commercial fishing permits; and providing for an effective
date."
- HEARD & HELD
SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 13
Urging the United States Congress to amend the Marine Mammal
Protection Act and urging the United States Department of the
Interior to permit Alaska Native organizations and the Alaska
Department of Fish and Game to co-manage, take, and study marine
mammals under the Marine Mammal Protection Act.
- HEARD & HELD
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: SB 211
SHORT TITLE: TEMP. TRANSFER OF COMM. FISHING PERMITS
SPONSOR(s): SENATOR(s) STEVENS
02/19/18 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/19/18 (S) RES, FIN
03/08/18 (S) SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE INTRODUCED-REFERRALS
03/08/18 (S) RES, FIN
03/12/18 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
BILL: SJR 13
SHORT TITLE: URGING CO-MANAGEMENT PLAN FOR SEA OTTERS
SPONSOR(s): SENATOR(s) STEDMAN
02/19/18 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/19/18 (S) RES
03/07/18 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
03/07/18 (S) <Bill Hearing Canceled>
03/12/18 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
WITNESS REGISTER
TIM LAMKIN, staff to Senator Stevens
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SSSB 211 for the sponsor.
BRUCE SCHACTLER, commercial fisherman\representing himself
Kodiak, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 211.
FATE PUTMAN, Commissioner
Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission (CFEC)
Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G)
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 211.
DAVID HASHAGEN, commercial fisherman/representing himself
Ketchikan, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 211.
THERESA PETERSON, commercial fisherman\representing herself
Kodiak, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the intent of SB 211.
MAC MEINERS, commercial fisherman/representing himself
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 211.
SEANATOR GARY STEVENS
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of SB 211.
CHRIS BURNS, commercial fisherman/representing himself
Kodiak, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 211.
JOHN MOLLER, commercial fisherman/representing himself
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 211.
JIM PETERSON commercial fisherman/representing himself
Kodiak, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 211.
SENATOR BERT STEDMAN
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of SJR 13.
JOHN MOLLER, representing himself
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 13.
LAWRENCE ARMOUR, Tribal Administrator
Klawock Cooperative Association
Klawock, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the intent of SJR 13 but not some
of its details.
MIKE LOCKABEY
Coalition of Southeast Alaska Shellfish Fisheries
Wrangell, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 13.
STEPHANIE JURRIES, representing herself
Prince of Wales Island, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 13.
TEMPLE BILLARD, representing himself
Fairbanks, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 13.
PAT HOLMES, representing himself
Kodiak, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 13.
PHIL DOHERTY, Co-executive Director
Southeast Alaska Regional Dive Fisheries Association (SARDFA)
Ketchikan, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 13.
JOEL RANDRUP, representing himself
Petersburg, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 13.
WADE MARTIN, representing himself
Sitka, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SJR 13.
ROBERT MILLER, representing himself
Sitka, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SJR 13.
KENYATTA BRADLEY, representing herself
Sitka, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SJR 13.
MIKE MILLER, Chairman
Indigenous Peoples Council on Marine Mammals
Sitka, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SJR 13 in its present form.
KATHY HANSEN, Executive Director
Southeast Alaska Fishermen's Alliance
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SJR 13.
ACTION NARRATIVE
3:30:19 PM
CHAIR CATHY GIESSEL called the Senate Resources Standing
Committee meeting to order at 3:30 p.m. Present at the call to
order were Senators Stedman, Coghill, Bishop, Von Imhof, and
Chair Giessel.
SSSB 211-TEMP. TRANSFER OF COMM. FISHING PERMITS
3:30:56 PM
CHAIR GIESSEL announced consideration of SB 211 [SSSB 211 was
before the committee]. This is the first hearing.
TIM LAMKIN, staff to Senator Stevens, Alaska State Legislature,
Juneau, Alaska, said SSSB 211 attempts to address the graying of
Alaska's fishing fleet. It establishes a temporary permit
transfer process to connect the more experienced master
fishermen with younger journeymen to train them over a period of
time to take over the reins. The intent is to help younger
fishermen with some upward mobility into the industry and
provide them with some advanced training. The stakeholders,
fishermen, and Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission (CFEC), all
support this idea. The bill uses terms that convey the purpose
of allowing the means for a master fisherman to phase himself
out as younger fishermen are trained to phase themselves in.
3:33:07 PM
MR. LAMKIN said that Section 25 is the substantive component of
this bill and he would start with that in his sectional
analysis. Every other section is conforming amendments to
existing statute.
Section 25 adds a new subsection establishing the Alaska Master
Fisher Retirement Transfer Program (AMFRT). In trying to be
gender neutral he realizes "fisher" needs to be changed back to
"fisherman" with the intent of still being gender neutral. The
following is the sectional analysis of the rest of SSSB 211,
version 30-LS1369\D:
(a) Would require that the transfer not be initiated
during an open fishing season, so it's not an
impromptu decision.
(b) The transfer process is limited to a period of no
more than three consecutive years, so it can't be in
perpetuity. This bill was carefully crafted to honor
the Limited Entry Program and avoids looking like a
leasing program.
(c) The transfer process must include written binding
contract between both parties filed with CFEC.
(d) Provides that the primary permit holder be present
during 50 percent of the fishing season.
(e) The journeyman must use the master's vessel for
the fishing season.
(f) Provides that both names of master and journeyman
are on the permit.
(g) The journeyman qualifies to participate in the
AMFRT program if the journeyman:
1. applies to the CFEC on a form approved by the
ADF&G.
2. Demonstrates having been employed by and be a
crewmember for the master for a minimum of one year
prior to initiating the transfer process.
3. Meets marine and navigational safety standards
appropriate for the fishery and sophistication of the
vessel being operated, including demonstrated
knowledge of the fishery and of protecting the state's
fisheries and marine environment and
4. Paid a required fee.
The CFEC is charged with adopting regulations
specifying the forms, dates of application, and
procedures to be followed in applying for and renewing
a temporary permit transfer under the AMFRT program.
These regulations will also include reporting
requirements for both master and journeyman.
3:38:15 PM
SENATOR MEYER joined the meeting.
3:39:06 PM
MR. LAMKIN provided the rest of the analysis as follows:
Section 1 Conforms with the naming of the program as
"the Alaska Master Fisher Retirement Transfer Program
(AMFRT."
Section 2 Allows the Board of Fisheries to require a
fisherman participating in the AMFRT program to be
physically present at the fishing site.
Section 3 Requires a fisherman participating in the
AMFRT program to hold a commercial fishing license
during their portion of the transfer process when they
are actually fishing under the permit, as well as
requiring a crew member license when an AMFRT
participant is on the vessel, but not directly fishing
under the permit.
Section 4 Exempts resident participants of the AMFRT
program from having to pay a fee for an annual crew
member fishing license.
Section 5 Exempts nonresident participants of the
AMFRT program from having to pay a fee for their
annual crewmember fishing license.
Section 6 Exempts participants of the AMFRT program
from being eligible for a seven-day crewmember fishing
license.
3:41:08 PM
Section 7 Incldues in the definition of "commercial
fishing license" the entry perjimnit being temporarily
transferred through the AMFRT program.
Section 8 Allows participants in the AMFRT to deliver
or land fish provided they meet the permitting
requirements consistent with existing commercial
fishing laws and regulations.
Section 9 Provides for participants in the AMFRT
program to be able to employ crew for purposes of
commercial fishing activities, and to transport and
sell fish caught commercially.
Section 10 Includes criminal penalties for
participants of the AMFRT program if they are
convicted for failure to be present, on board during
commercial fishing activity under their permit.
Section 11 Includes the provision that a fish
processor or commercial buyer may only purchase fish
from permit holders, including participants of the
AMFRT program.
Section 12 Provides that participants of the AMFRT
program must possess and present their permit
identification when selling commercial fish caught
under their permit.
Section 13 Includes AMFRT program participants n
common property fisheries and terminal harvest area
takings.
Section 14 Includes in the duties of the Alaska
Commercial Fisheries entry Commission (CFEC) the
authority to approve temporary permit transfers for
qualifying participants of the AMFRT program, and to
adopt regulations to manage the program.
Section 15 Specifies that a person may not operate
gear in the commercial taking of fishery resources
unless that person is an AMFRT program participant.
Section 16 Specifies that a crewmember may assist with
operation of gear for the commercial taking of fishery
resources, provided an AMFRT program participant is
physically present and also engaged in the operation
of that gear.
3:43:08 PM
Section 17 Provides for AMFRT program participants to
operate gear within a specified fishery.
Section 18 Requires AMFRT program participants to be
in possession of their permit at all times when
operating the gear for which the permit was issued.
Section 19 Prevents the permit activated under the
AMRFT program from being used as an instrument of
equity or financially encumbered in any way, or to be
transferred to repossessed in any way beyond what is
allowed within the program, as set forth by the
program and related regulations.
Section 20 Adds a new subsection establishing that a
temporary permit holder under the AMRFT program has
the same use privilege and rights in a fishery as is
available to an individual holding a regular entry
permit.
Section 21 Provides CFEC authority to establish annual
fees for the issuance and renewal of entry permits,
including temporary permits issued under the AMFRT
program.
Section 22 Establishes that temporary permits issued
under the AMFRT program may only be transferred
through the CFEC as provided by law and by regulations
established by the CFEC.
Section 23 Disallows the transfer of temporary permits
issued under the AMFRT program except as specifically
provided by law or regulation.
Section 24 Provides exceptions, established by
regulation, for the transfer of temporary permits
issued under the AMFRT program, to include emergency
transfer of the permit in the event of such things as
medical illness, death, military or governmental
duties, or other extenuating circumstances resulting
in an unavoidable hardship and preclusion from being
able to participate in the fishery.
Section 25 (Covered at the beginning of the analysis)
Section 26 As regards the existing point system for
frequent violators of the Entry Permit salmon fishery
laws, this section includes the AMFRT program permitee
in that point system of respective violations.
Section 27 Extends the requirement of the CFEC to
provide notice of violations and point-docking for
AMFRT permit holders committing violations to salmon
fisheries laws, consistent with existing notice
requirements for standard permit holder making same
violations.
Section 28 Extends the assessment of points against a
standard permit holder to also include a permit holder
under the AMFRT program that such assessment shall be
in addition to and not a substitution for other
penalties that may be imposed by a court.
3:46:03 PM
Section 29 Adds a new subsection to clarify the master
shall be given notice of any points assessed against a
journeyman participating under an AMFRT transfer
agreement.
Section 30 Specifies that if a master's or
journeyman's salmon fishery permit is suspended for
any reason, the CFEC shall not issue another permit
for either of them in that fishery during the
suspension period, nor may they engage in any manner
of commercial salmon fishing activity during that
suspension time period.
Section 31 Extends CFEC authority to revoke the AMFRT
permit in the event that false or misleading
information was used to obtain it.
Section 32 Establishes an effective date of January 1,
2019.
SENATOR VON IMHOF asked what happens now when a retiring
fisherman wants to leave his permit to a younger fisherman, in
the absence of this program.
MR. LAMKIN said first that this bill is missing an owner
financing mechanism for these permits, and that is currently
being worked on with the Department of Commerce, Community and
Economic Development (DCCED). Currently, when a retiring
fisherman wants out, he sells his permit out-right to an
interested buyer. There isn't a shortage of sellers or buyers
right now, but permits can cost over several hundreds of
thousands of dollars and that may keep a younger fisherman from
entering the industry. Rather than them being left out, this
provides an opportunity for them to participate.
3:48:54 PM
SENATOR VON IMHOF asked if this measure is being designed for
buying the limited entry permit but not the boat and gear.
MR. LAMKIN replied yes, and testimony will indicate that once
you get the permit, the rest tends to fall in place much easier,
although that may be arguable.
SENATOR VON IMHOF asked how having the journeyman on the
master's vessel interplays with the permit and is three years
enough time for pay back. How does a bank loan play into that?
MR. LAMKIN replied that those great questions would be ironed
out eventually. They want to associate the permit and this
training transfer process with not just the master fisherman and
the name on the permit, but also the vessel and the gear and the
equipment associated with that permit and fishery. Whether three
years is realistic is a good question and more time may be
needed.
SENATOR MEYER, referring to sections 4 and 5, asked what the
ratio is between residents and nonresidents having these
permits. He wanted to incentivize Alaskans and not nonresidents.
MR. LAMKIN replied that he didn't know but could look it up.
MR. LAMKIN said section 4 has to do with being a crewmember not
being the permit holder, adding that the whole point of Limited
Entry is to keep our fleets and the holders of those permits at
least substantially in the hands of Alaskans.
3:52:35 PM
CHAIR GIESSEL opened invited testimony.
BRUCE SCHACTLER, commercial fisherman/representing himself,
Kodiak, Alaska, supported SB 211. He commented that resident
participation depends on the area and the fishery. Kodiak
fisheries are more than 75 percent residents.
He explained that SB 211 is designed to be a training program.
Although he has been fortunate to have the same crew for many
years, many crewmen don't know if they want to be a captain or
have what it takes to be one. Are they fish killers? Do they
have what it takes to find fish and catch them? Do they know how
to handle grumpy crewmembers? Can they deal with the
responsibility of running a boat? He said this program was put
together by captains with their crewmen. It's not intended for a
crewman to amortize the cost of the permit over three years. The
idea of three years was after doing this for three years the
journeyman will have it figured out. Either he wants to buy a
permit and a boat and get into it as a Limited Entry permit
holder, or not.
3:57:26 PM
Another possible way to transfer a permit is through the central
lien registry that CFEC and the Division of Investments is
working on. This concept would enable someone to do an owner
transfer and if it didn't work out, be able to get the permit
back.
MR. SCHACTLER said SB 211 doesn't require a complicated rewrite
of Limited Entry; it just amends one section that adds the
program. The other amendments are conforming language. It will
add no more gear to the fishery and it adds safety training for
everyone. In all his conversations he hadn't found anyone not in
favor of this.
He added that another variable is on the table now: the fishing
resource itself is "iffy," the loss of codfish in the Gulf of
Alaska, for example.
4:00:17 PM
FATE PUTMAN, Commissioner, Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission
(CFEC), Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G), Juneau,
Alaska, supported SB 211. It heads in the right direction in
establishing a new temporary transfer for this type of permit.
He had some concerns about language on page 11, lines 5-7,
saying the commission is responsible for certifying that the
journeyman has the safety training. That and the protection of
property along with the state's fisheries and marine
conservation are jobs better suited to other agencies like the
Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC), and the Alaska
Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G), or the Coast Guard for
training. He hoped that could be changed.
Secondly, this measure would require the CFEC to find a stopping
point in order to effectuate the transfer, and some fisheries go
throughout the year with no stopping point.
SENATOR VON IMHOF said she understood the motivation behind the
transfer process but she is not clear if money will change hands
for a lease towards ownership for three years. She asked Mr.
Putman if he cares if money is transferred prior to that.
MR. PUTMAN replied the commission is concerned about leasing,
but at the same time, catch profits are normally exchanged
between the master and journeyman and that should continue. A
provision requires CFEC to maintain and review the contracts
between the master and journeyman.
4:03:45 PM
CHAIR GIESSEL thanked him and opened public testimony on SB 211.
4:03:49 PM
DAVID HASHAGEN, commercial fisherman/representing himself,
Ketchikan, Alaska, supported SB 211. It is a step in the right
direction in addressing "the graying of the fleet." However, he
said a provision is needed allowing a person with a temporary
permit to obtain his own vessel. He wants to keep his boat if he
were to lease out his permit, because after 54 years, he has a
boat that he can put his pickup on and travel up and down the
coast from Patagonia to the Bering Sea. And if a person has two
sons and turns the boat over to one and the permit over to the
other, they would both have to come up with another permit or
boat to make the business work.
He suggested inserting "or by discretion of the commissioner"
into section 25, lines 16-17, after "three consecutive years",
as was done for Limited Entry. That language would allow the
CFEC to make adjustments for the differences in each fishery. He
said he has had the same crew for many years and if a temporary
permit holder was added, he wouldn't have a place to sleep. He
is in the gillnet fishery and there isn't a whole lot to learn;
it's just a lot of hard work, and that's what the guys find out
right away. In addition, a journeyman might want to gillnet in a
different area than where he fishes his boat.
The owner financing concept is an excellent idea. He would
probably be the first one to participate in that if something
was set up, because now when you turn your permit over to
someone and if you haven't got your money, he can look you
square in the eye and say: "good luck," and doesn't have to give
the permit back.
MR. HASHAGEN noted that the Limited Entry Program has been
upheld by the Supreme Court three times: you can't discriminate
against non-residents. However, he thought the owner financing
provision would encourage a master to make a deal with someone
he knows who lives in the state. And the three-year timeframe
would provide the state with a financial track record for the
fishery a person wants the state to finance the permit in.
THERESA PETERSON, commercial fisherman/representing himself,
Kodiak, Alaska, supported the intent of SB 211. However, the
language needs to be tightened to make sure it meets the stated
intent, because it changes significantly the integrity of the
owner/operator limited entry system, which she thinks, works
"really well."
4:13:12 PM
Language in section 25, line 16, saying that the transfer cannot
be initiated during an open fishing season needs more work. It
would be important to determine that this agreement needs to be
reached prior to when a fishery opens on a certain date but then
it closes and opens throughout the course of the summer, at mid-
season, or goes year-round.
The "period of not more than three consecutive years on line 17
is not an adequate timeframe for someone to really understand if
they want to pursue funding to purchase a permit, and this
arrangement should be limited to one-time. The contract should
include what the payments are while in the transitional phase
(section 25 on page 10, line 20). That would be a good way to
keep track of how much money is being extracted out of the
fisheries.
MAC MEINERS, representing himself/commercial fisherman, Juneau,
Alaska, supported SB 211.
4:17:21 PM
CHRIS BURNS, commercial fisherman/representing himself, Kodiak,
Alaska, supported SB 211. He said the Limited Entry Program has
been very successful. The CFEC has done plenty of studies on
emergency transfer and fraud issues and hasn't found very much
of that going on over the last three to five years. This is just
fixing an oversight in the limited entry system.
MR. BURNS said this is a way to break into management in the
fisheries like the International Brotherhood of Electrical
Workers (IBEW). Fishing is a little more complicated than the
other trades: the owner needs to deal with insurance, crew,
weather, big runs/low runs, and global market fluctuations.
4:21:26 PM
JOHN MOLLER, commercial fisherman/representing himself, Juneau,
Alaska, supported SB 211, agreeing with many testifiers. He owns
three permits and his daughter owns one. They fish in three
different fisheries out of Juneau. He said Alaska has some
outstanding loan programs for financing permits and boats and
this should not turn into a leasing program. The owner operator
is an essential part of the overall CFEC program.
4:23:16 PM
JIM PETERSON, commercial fisherman/representing himself, Kodiak,
Alaska, supported SB 211. He wholeheartedly supports this bill,
because like all the rest of them he isn't getting any younger.
One of the biggest mountains a guy has to climb is getting that
permit and making it easier for that individual is a good thing.
4:24:53 PM
CHAIR GIESSEL said they could submit their specific
recommendations in writing to her office. Finding no further
testimony, she closed public testimony and set SB 211 aside. She
invited the sponsor to comment.
SENATOR STEVENS, sponsor of SB 211, Alaska State Legislature,
Juneau, Alaska, said this issue was brought forward by Mr.
Schactler who like a lot of older fishermen, realize they want
to be able to pass their business on to somebody else. Passing
it on to the son is the traditional way, but some people don't
have a child to pass it on to. Getting young people into the
industry is a big problem; a vessel and gear that used to cost
$15,000 costs $300,000, now is more than most young people can
accumulate. This is not a perfect solution, but he is looking
forward to making it as good as possible.
CHAIR GIESSEL held SB 211 in committee.
SJR 13-URGING CO-MANAGEMENT PLAN FOR SEA OTTERS
4:26:46 PM
CHAIR GIESSEL announced consideration of SJR 13. She noted the
proposed committee substitute (CS) clarifies some of the
drafting issues.
SENATOR COGHILL moved to adopt CSSJR 13( ), version 30-LS1408\J,
as the working document. There were no objections and version J
was adopted.
SENATOR STEDMAN, Alaska State Legislature, sponsor of SJR 13,
said his district is all subsistence except for a portion of
Ketchikan. He said he was going to talk about the impacts sea
otters have on the subsistence lifestyle and the ability in his
communities for the families to feed themselves.
4:28:58 PM
SENATOR STEDMAN said this resolution urges the United States
Congress to amend the Marine Mammal Protection Act and urges
certain federal agencies to permit the Alaska Native
organizations and the Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G)
to co-manage the take and study of sea otters.
Previously, Russians and Aleuts migrated across the Aleutian
Chain and "pretty much thinned them out," almost totally
annihilated the otter population in that region. And he is not
in any way advocating going back to that, but he's looking for
some balance. In 1969, 400 otters were introduced into the
state. Now there are 25,000 otters and that number is growing by
13 percent per year. This has affected subsistence fishery
resources and closed 18 dive fisheries. Kake is down to one clam
beach in front of their community. Having just one beach is not
very good in terms of a reliable harvest of seafood. They don't
have the ability to go to Safeway or Albertsons to shop for
groceries.
SENATOR STEDMAN said these communities have 80 percent
unemployment - one is close to 90 percent - and have no cash
economy as a base. They have schools, city hall, a handful of
fishing permits, and a little bit of tourism. The people in
these communities have lived a subsistence lifestyle for
thousands of years and it won't change any time soon. They need
to be able to harvest food in order to eat.
4:32:01 PM
Back in 2010, the legislature saw the decline in harvest of sea
otters and appropriated funds to encourage craft work, which
really helped in increasing the allowable harvest of otters,
which is set in federal regulations. His chart reflected a
substantial drop from a harvest of 1,500 animals a few years ago
to 882 in 2017, so they are basically going backwards as the
Southeast otter population grew at 13 percent. For people who
haven't seen the sea otter rafts, they are so thick some
mariners mistake them for reefs.
SJR 13 urges federal agencies to work with state, Native, and
local leaders to establish a sea otter management plan to
protect the shellfish resources and subsistence availability.
4:34:58 PM
SENATOR STEDMAN said they don't want to eradicate the otters,
but a balance needs to be established between the tourism
industry, commercial fisheries, and subsistence. One option is
to transfer sea otter management authority to the Alaska
Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G) or to the National Marine
Fishery Services (NMFS) and for them to consider small business
enhancements and economic activities in the management plan.
This would entail dealing with non-cash economies, but sea otter
pelts are valuable both as pelts and in crafts.
He explained that currently, Non-Native people can't handle the
pelts until they are significantly altered and if he had a
Native spouse he couldn't help her at all. Dave, an Alaska
Native from Metlakatla, could go out and harvest them, but if he
had a non-Native spouse, she couldn't help him, either.
4:37:54 PM
SENATOR STEDMAN said for a while Alaska Natives from the coast
weren't even harvesting otters, because they were afraid of the
federal regulations. Some modifications have been made by
working with the federal regulators, but their rules are still
too restrictive. In SJR 13, he is urging amendments to the
Marine Mammal Protection Act (MMPA) to provide for authentic
Native crafts to be sold without restriction. That can be seen
by the massive upswing in otter population and a declining
harvest level in seafood.
The scope of allowable uses needs to be expanded to allow non-
Coastal Alaska Natives of federally recognized tribes to take
sea otters. He couldn't see any good reason why Natives from
Interior Alaska should be prohibited from harvesting sea otters
and increasing their value by selling their crafts to tourists.
Authentic Native crafts should be able to be sold without
restrictions. "Why can't they make a teddy bear out of this
really nice fur for our kids to play with?" he asked.
4:39:41 PM
SENATOR STEDMAN elaborated that it would be a huge help if the
federal government would back off a little bit and allow the
ADF&G and Native organizations to manage their own destiny and
co-manage the subsistence use of sea otters. The state replanted
the sea otters into Southeast and then their management was
transferred to the feds, and now with the Marine Mammal
Protection Act no good deed goes unpunished.
Further, Senator Stedman said, our neighbors in British Columbia
are dying to get sea otter pelts and we should be able to
harvest and sell some to them. The resolution urges authorizing
the ADF&G or Native organizations to take as many sea otters as
necessary to protect the threatened subsistence fisheries. His
constituents don't want to wipe out sea otters, but they don't
want them so concentrated that their subsistence beaches are
devastated. He displayed a sea otter pelt, size XL, saying they
feed down to 30-35 fathoms of water and eat about 25 percent of
their body weight a day.
SENATOR STEDMAN quoted a letter from Secretary of Interior Zenke
and Secretary of Commerce Ross:
The estimated annual consumption of the current sea
otter population is 195 million pounds of seafood, the
primary take being shellfish. Based on growth
estimates through 2030, this number closer to a half
billion pounds annually. Compared to the estimate of
195 million pounds consumed by the sea otter
population each year, Southeast Alaska's commercial
fishermen targeting the same species harvest 5-7
million pounds annually, 3-4 percent of what the
current sea otter population eats.
SENATOR STEDMAN said his communities are getting eaten out of
house and home. In 2013, human take was 1,494 and last year it
was 882. He suggested increasing the harvest amount to 10
percent of the estimated numbers. Sitka takes roughly 31 percent
of the otters and Kake 10 percent, Yakutat 13 percent,
Petersburg 4 percent, Klawock 9.5 percent, Hoonah 8 percent, and
Hydaburg 2.8 percent, and they're moving around the south end of
Prince of Wales Island into "huge urchin beds" south of
Ketchikan. It will be a smorgasbord for them and a disaster for
the local residents that try to feed their families from the
same beds. These communities don't have the opportunity to go to
the supermarkets. When the tide is out the supermarket is open,
but when the sea otters eat everything down to 30 fathoms, that
makes it tough to feed your family.
He remarked that Senator Giessel and Senator von Imhof would
look splendid in a sea otter coat - far exceeding any mink coat
- out on an evening in Anchorage.
4:47:03 PM
SENATOR MEYER asked if he would look nice in an otter pelt, too?
SENATOR STEDMAN answered yes, he would.
SENATOR MEYER asked if the otters get caught in nets sometimes.
SENATOR STEDMAN replied not very often.
SENATOR MEYER asked if they are edible.
SENATOR STEDMAN answered yes, but they have to be skinned right
away, because a gland in the skin the seeps into the meat.
SENATOR MEYER asked if something preys on them, like whales.
SENATOR STEDMAN said he was hoping to train killer whales to do
that, but they only eat otters occasionally and have no impact.
They are called fur balls.
SENATOR MEYER asked if there is any other way to thin out the
herd.
SENATOR STEDMAN answered that starvation would work, which is
what the federal government is letting them do, but it makes a
lasting impact. Nothing is left when they are gone. The seabed
looks like a bombing range.
4:49:52 PM
SENATOR VON IMHOF asked his thoughts on a letter from the
organized village of Kake against this resolution because they
would rather work with tribal co-management bodies under the
Marine Mammal Protection Act and not with ADF&G.
SENATOR STEDMAN replied those concerns were brought up with the
original draft of this resolution, so it was amended, but there
could still be some concerns with it. He hadn't heard from Kake
about the new version.
SENATOR VON IMHOF asked if he has plans to do so.
SENATOR STEDMAN replied yes, he is in contact with the
community.
4:51:42 PM
SENATOR BISHOP asked which community had one clam beach left.
SENATOR STEDMAN replied Kake.
SENATOR BISHOP asked who introduced the sea otters.
SENATOR STEDMAN replied the State of Alaska.
SENATOR BISHOP asked, when the last beach goes, who will
repopulate it and how much will that cost.
SENATOR STEDMAN replied that he didn't know. He has encouraged
the community to be very aggressive in protecting that beach and
others in the area.
CHAIR GIESSEL opened public testimony.
4:52:49 PM
JOHN MOLLER, representing himself, Juneau, Alaska, supported SJR
13. He brought his 12-year old son, Ian, with him saying he is a
commercial fisherman and a sea otter hunter. Mr. Moller said he
is an Aleut, born and raised in Unalaska, and has lived in
Juneau since 1995. He is a subsistence harvester, and a
commercial fisherman. He owns a commercial crab permit, a shrimp
permit, and a salmon permit. He is a founding member and the
president of the Shellfish Preservation Alliance (SPA) that was
formed to address sea otter management issues. They have
submitted written comments, but he was speaking today for
himself.
He said his great grandfather was a hunter on the last
commercial sea otter hunt in Alaska. He has been hunting sea
otters since the 1980s and has watched them migrate from the
Aleutians to Prince William Sound; and in Southeast he has
watched them move from the outside waters to the inside waters.
This is not just a Southeast issue; it is a statewide issue.
Kachemak Bay was devastated by this critter. Sea otters are
destroying everything that is important to his subsistence and
commercial fishing lifestyle.
MR. MOLLER said he had an issue with the term, "qualified
hunter," because unless his son, Ian, marries an Alaska Native,
his kids will not qualify to take sea otters, and if that is the
case, they are looking at the last generation of Moller sea
otter hunters. A qualified hunter must include all Alaska
Natives who are members of a federally recognized tribe.
His great grandfather supported his family by trading raw sea
otter furs. The only reason they were able to make a living at
this was because they were able to trade raw pelts.
"Significantly altered products" was not the tradition of the
people. It was the trading and bartering of raw pelts.
MR. MOLLER stated if more animals are not removed, the
subsistence lifestyle will be a thing of the past, and he hates
to even think about the commercial impacts. He supports
switching management to ADF&G, but others are concerned about
where ADF&G will get the money to do that. He just anticipates
if the feds would switch management to ADF&G that some
appropriations would come with it.
4:57:31 PM
MR. MOLLER closed saying he grew up in Unalaska that had lots of
sea otters; they ate everything and then moved on. The same kind
of thing could happen in Hoonah that is trying to grow a tourism
industry, part of which wants to view sea otters. When the sea
otters leave Icy Strait and move to Juneau, like they are
currently doing, the tourism industry will have a lot fewer
animals to look at.
He said this is an opportunity to create a new economy of raw
sea otter pelts. Sea otters are an overabundant resource with no
predators, other than himself, Ian, and a few others. This would
be good for Alaska.
4:59:32 PM
LAWRENCE ARMOUR, Tribal Administrator, Klawock Cooperative
Association (KCA), Klawock, Alaska, supported the intent of SJR
13 but not some of its details. They see a compelling need to
amend the Marine Mammal Protection Act (MMPA), which is to stop
the disastrous sea otter population explosion that is wreaking
havoc with Southeast Alaska seafood resources. SJR 13 overlaps
their desired amendments, but they don't entirely match, and in
some respects are at odds with the association's favored
approach.
MR. ARMOUR said that MMPA was enacted in 1972 to prevent marine
mammal extinction and apparently no one anticipated the
opposite, an uncontrolled sea otter population boom.
Consequently, MMPA makes no provision for marine mammal
population control.
MMPA permits Alaska Natives to take sea otter for the purposes
of creating and selling authenticate Native articles of
handicrafts and clothing, and that provision wasn't intended as
a population control measure, but absent any such measures,
Native hunting now looms large as a potential solution. Tribes
have sea otter hunters out hunting now, but under current
conditions, the scale needed for population control is not
economically feasible.
Native hunting has not been tested as a population control
measure, but they believe it can happen. The federal government
must make accommodations that are permissible under MMPA to
attract more Native hunters into sea otter hunting.
The third resolve clause in SJR 13 urges an MMPA amendment to
expand the scope of allowable uses for harvest of sea mammals.
The tribes favor much the same. A careful reading of MMPA's
limitations on hunting and sales indicates that existing law
might fairly be interpreted more broadly but the best way to do
that would be through negotiating an approved plan with the
federal government and the tribes.
SJR 13's third resolve clause calls for an amendment to permit
Alaska Natives to sell his or her right to hunt sea otters to a
non-Native. Sea otter hunting is a potential rural income source
and MMPA indicates that it should remain with rural residents.
Therefore, if SJR 13 were to move forward, KCA respectfully
requests removal of the proposed provision to permit an Alaska
Native to assign this right to an individual with just a hunting
license issued by the State of Alaska, language on page 3, lines
26-28. They believe that a strong, fair plan could be prepared
without that provision.
5:03:22 PM
Research indicates that the feds want data supporting the belief
that sea otters disrupt the ecological balance, and the fifth
and sixth resolve clauses call for issuance of a scientific
permit to get that data. They also appreciate the inclusion of
an Alaska Native organization as a possible recipient for that
permit. Sea otter management is a Southeast Alaska regionwide
problem, and MMPA provides Native tribes a unique opportunity to
participate in the co-management of them. And MMPA 16 US Code
138, Section 119(a) provides for the secretary to enter into a
cooperative agreement with Alaska Native organizations to
conserve marine mammals and provide co-management of subsistence
use.
5:05:00 PM
MIKE LOCKABEY, Coalition of Southeast Alaska Shellfish
Fisheries, Wrangell, Alaska, supported SJR 13. This is an acute
biological problem right now, an extinction-level event not an
allocation problem. The affected fisheries have about 600
stakeholders and produce about $16 million of prime income to
the Southeast economy and he agrees with previous testimony
about how much they eat and thinks it could be quite a bit
larger. At current consumption levels, three to five years down
the road several more fisheries will have collapsed.
MR. LOCKABEY said in California when the number of otters was
allowed to go unchecked, they died off from several diseases,
and didn't come back. They decimated their own environment and
Southeast could very well end up like that. The herd needs to be
cropped, and now.
5:09:28 PM
STEPHANIE JURRIES, representing herself, Prince of Wales Island
(POW), Alaska, supported SJR 13. She and her husband dive for
sea cucumbers and geoducks in Craig. Although they troll for
salmon in the summer, a majority of their income is derived from
the dive fisheries. Since she started diving in 2007, she has
seen a marked decrease in guideline fishing harvest levels in
those areas that are still open on the West Coast of Prince of
Wales. These losses directly impact individual fishing families
as well as the communities which rely on them. Over the years,
Craig has seen decreasing revenue from dive vessels in the way
of moorage and fish taxes, and services and businesses used by
dive fishermen.
She has seen firsthand the explosion of sea otters and heard
many reports of them getting much closer to Ketchikan and
Wrangell. She no longer fishes commercially for Dungeness crab
on the west coast of POW because the otters have decimated their
population. Once they discover the rich crab grounds of the
shallow Stikine River Delta, they will almost certainly destroy
that fishery, as well. People already know these facts, and
action needs to be taken now.
SJR 13 will facilitate a way to diminish the damage the otters
are having on their fisheries, but measures allowing more local
harvest by Natives will only impact the population enough to
give their fisheries a fighting chance. The ADF&G has done a
good job of managing Alaska's fisheries, but their management
strategy doesn't include the impacts from the otters. She agreed
with previous comments about killer whales and nets and added
that when she went to a sea otter conference several years ago
in Klawock, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS) was
extremely unresponsive when confronted with this issue and made
no effort whatsoever to make changes to the way Natives can
harvest the hides.
5:11:54 PM
TEMPLE BILLARD, representing himself, Fairbanks, Alaska,
supported SJR 13. He described himself as a Coastal Native who
looks forward to living in Southeast in the future. He supported
state management of sea otters and relaxation of tannery
regulations. If they can't get tanneries to deal with the
otters, there is no point in harvesting them.
5:12:57 PM
PAT HOLMES, representing himself, Kodiak, Alaska, supported SJR
13. It's a good start, but a few things could be added like
consulting with tribes and corporations in rest of the state,
particularly Prince William Sound and Kodiak, because of the
otters' tremendous impacts there.
MR. HOLMES said he has commercially fished and spent most of his
career with ADF&G in shellfish and salmon management. He has
worked from Kodiak, Pribiloffs, Nome, and way out in the
Aleutians, where things do change.
In the Aleutians, the U.S. Geologic Survey (USGS) identified
orcas as the major reason for the present decline. He also spent
10 years on the ADF&G on the Fish and Game Advisory Committee
and 20 years on the Federal Subsistence Council. He has heard
many years of comments about the impact of the otters that in
the last couple of years have eliminated basically all the king
crab, tanners, and Dungeness that one can get easily from town
for subsistence. He suggested expanding language to more
specifically define the effects of sea otters on subsistence.
PHIL DOHERTY, Co-executive Director, Southeast Alaska Regional
Dive Fisheries Association (SARDFA), Ketchikan, Alaska,
supported SJR 13. He said SARDFA was formed in 1998 under AS
43.76 and it is a non-profit economic development corporation
whose mission is to develop, expand, and enhance new and
existing dive fisheries in Southeast Alaska. The ADF&G
Miscellaneous Shellfish Program is largely supported by the
assessment on the dive resources with a mandatory tax of 7
percent on geoduck clams and 5 percent on sea cucumbers and red
sea urchins, ex-vessel value. There are approximately 200 active
divers in the fisheries and in recent years the annual ex-vessel
value has been $10 million. These dive fisheries are now one of
the most important fall and winter commercial fisheries in
Southeast Alaska and have a very positive impact in the winter
economies of Ketchikan, Craig, Klawock, Sitka, Juneau, and
Wrangell. However, due to sea otter predation, these fisheries
will eventually drop to such a low level that in the foreseeable
future the guideline harvest level in ex-vessel value will not
be able to sustain the fisheries.
Recent research by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has
documented that those approximately 27,000 animals in 2013 are
growing at a 13 percent annual increase. That means there are
51,000 sea otters in Southeast Alaska today. These marine
mammals consume shellfish at the rate of approximately 25
percent of their body weight daily and they weigh an average of
65 pounds. That means they consumed 300 million pounds of
shellfish in Southeast Alaska just last year.
5:18:21 PM
JOEL RANDRUP, representing himself, Petersburg, Alaska,
supported SJR 13. He has been a commercial fisherman for 10
years and sea otters have moved him off his fishing grounds
twice in the last five years. There is no sign that their growth
is being retarded and they are advancing into new areas around
Petersburg and Southeast Alaska. The unmanaged sea otters have a
very negative effect on subsistence, commercial, sport, and
recreational users of our shellfish resources.
He hoped this resolution would bring all parties to the table to
come up with a sensible management plan to address the harm sea
otters have on the shellfish resources for coastal communities
in Southeast Alaska.
5:19:56 PM
WADE MARTIN, representing himself, Sitka, Alaska, opposed SJR
13. He is a Coastal Native who hunts sea otters for a living. He
said that hunting by Coastal Natives should be encouraged and
then they wouldn't be a problem. He has shot "easy over 3,000
sea otters" in his career, and urchins and shellfish are on a
rebound.
Federal enforcement discourages hunting; they have come in and
shaken down local tanneries and homes. "It's very discouraging
and a lot of guys won't pick up a rifle because of this."
5:22:52 PM
ROBERT MILLER, representing himself, Sitka, Alaska, opposed SJR
13. He has hunted sea otters for eight or nine years and owns
the Sea Fur Sewing Company and offered to sell them a blanket to
help support this bill. He didn't support the selling of whole
hides that might sell for $100, but if you teach a person to sew
and sell a product, he could make $1,000 and drive the economy
for more harvest.
MR. MILLER said his business goes through 250-300 sea otters a
year and is expanding. He hires hunters - his own brothers -
from Craig, Klawock, Angoon, Kake, and Kachemak Bay to hunt. He
does not want to hire a non-Native to hunt for him.
Opening up management of sea otters to ADF&G will create more
law enforcement problems and restrictions on Alaska Natives to
hunt their own products that they have been "granted" through
past laws. If they want to have more hunters out there, they
should work with Congress to change the language from one-
quarter blood quantum to "tribally-enrolled." That will result
in a lot more Native hunters out there.
MR. MILLER said his business depends on demand and he works hard
on marketing, spending $3,000 to $5,000 per year. He said
exporting whole hides - to China to process - would put him out
of business; hides would be worth $25 in three years.
5:25:41 PM
KENYATTA BRADLEY, representing herself, Sitka, Alaska, opposed
SJR 13. He is a young hunter, tanner, and sewer in Southeast
Alaska and has a 75-pot crab permit. He asked the Board of
Fisheries should pass a super exclusive Dungeness crab fishery
in Southeast Alaska like Kodiak has.
MR. BRADLEY said he is exploring different ways to make money
off his crab knowledge. He is building a livelihood around his
right to hunt and sew sea otter pelts and this bill would
essential strip his hopes of going into business. His Native
corporation was not contacted for input on this bill and he
believes it represents the 400 permit holders who are not making
as much money as they used to but are still making money.
The biggest inhibition for him is how much it costs to tan
hides. He has a $5,000 tanning bill for 26 otters he took this
past year. There are only five or so tanneries in Alaska - or
around the world, for that matter - that are willing to tan
otters due to the overreaching oversight enforced by the MMPA,
which often engages in entrapment. An 1800 population study
showed about 200,000 otters from north California to Puget Sound
and 25,000 in Southeast, so they are probably on par with
historic numbers. Shellfish populations are rebounding in Sitka
and that shows that populations are stabilizing. Any population
goes up and down, and then they stabilize over time. The otters
will stop having babies once their food runs out.
He said that Senator Stedman didn't take the time to talk to
Kake about its clam beds, but if he took the time they could
come up with more comprehensive legislation. He advised to not
vote on this bill until getting more input from Native
Corporations.
5:27:54 PM
MIKE MILLER, Chairman, Indigenous Peoples Council on Marine
Mammals, Sitka, Alaska, opposed SJR 13 in its present form. The
council is a statewide coalition of organizations that has co-
management agreements with U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and
the National Marine Fisheries Service. He is a council member
of the Sitka Tribe and was instrumental in starting the Sitka
Tannery that Senator Stedman had a picture of. He has also been
a sea otter hunter since 1990.
He wouldn't repeat a lot of the comments that show consistent
concerns about some of the language. He understands the need for
harvest management plans but opposes SJR 13 in its present form.
He worked on harvest management plans quite a bit. In 2006 and
2008 they submitted "Harvest Management Prior to Depletion" to
Congress, partly to address sea otter issues. It was opposed by
the state at that time and "got killed." He would like to
reintroduce it and work with the National Marine Fisheries
Service and U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service on local plans
without the state's participation, because that would just
extend the fight, which they don't have time for. Real progress
could be made by cleaning up this language.
5:30:05 PM
KATHY HANSEN, Executive Director, Southeast Alaska Fishermen's
Alliance, Juneau, Alaska, supported SJR 13. She is also a board
member for the Shellfish Preservation Alliance that was formed
last year as an umbrella group of Alaska Natives, Native
hunters, Native harvesters, municipalities, tribal governments,
commercial fishermen and their associations, processors, and
others that support this resolution. She said the Shellfish
Preservation Alliance has tried time and again to get co-
management of tribal organizations and management plans with the
U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service that has continually resisted
these efforts. This resolution may not be perfect, but it raised
the issue as a very major problem that is coming to a very
severe head right now.
MS. HANSEN said some resources might be rebounding in Sitka, but
it is probably 20 years after the sea otters came through. At a
recent Board of Fisheries meeting, ADF&G said they resurveyed
areas they had done previously for the dive fisheries and after
a decade, they were still "open dead craters." So, if nothing is
left in the area to grow the resources from, it takes even
longer. She concluded that this is a large problem that this
resolution starts to address. To Senator Meyer she said she
knows of a Yakutat artist that makes beautiful stove-pipe hats
out of sea otter.
5:32:51 PM
CHAIR GIESSEL, finding no further testimony, closed public
testimony on SJR 13.
SENATOR STEDMAN remarked in closing that SJR 13 needs to be
refined, and he would continue working on it. This is a huge
issue for coastal Alaska and the problem is getting worse. He
didn't know how else to get the attention of the feds.
SJR 13 was held in committee.
5:34:16 PM
CHAIR GIESSEL adjourned the Senate Resources Committee meeting
at 5:34 p.m.