Legislature(2017 - 2018)BUTROVICH 205
03/15/2017 03:30 PM Senate RESOURCES
Note: the audio ![]()
and video ![]()
recordings are distinct records and are obtained from different sources. As such there may be key differences between the two. The audio recordings are captured by our records offices as the official record of the meeting and will have more accurate timestamps. Use the icons to switch between them.
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| Confirmation Hearings: Big Game Commercial Services Board | |
| Confirmation Hearing: Commissioner, Department of Natural Resources | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
SENATE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE
March 15, 2017
3:30 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Cathy Giessel, Chair
Senator John Coghill, Vice Chair
Senator Bert Stedman
Senator Shelley Hughes
Senator Kevin Meyer
Senator Bill Wielechowski
MEMBERS ABSENT
Senator Natasha von Imhof
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
CONFIRMATION HEARINGS
Big Game Commercial Services Board
Tom Sullivan - Anchorage
James Atkins - Anchorage
- CONFIRMATIONS ADVANCED
Commissioner, Department Of Natural Resources
Andy Mack
- CONFIRMATION ADVANCED
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
No previous action to record
WITNESS REGISTER
TOM SULLIVAN, Appointee Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as appointee to the Big Game
Commercial Services Board.
JAMES ATKINS, representing himself
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Big Game Commercial Services Board.
ANDY MACK, Commissioner-designee
Department of Natural Resources (DNR)
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided comments on becoming DNR
Commissioner.
WAYNE KUBAT, Vice President
Alaska Hunters Association
Wasilla, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported James Atkins' appointment to the
Big Game Commercial Services Board.
THOR STACY, lobbyist and Contract Director
Government Affairs
Alaska Professional Hunters Association
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported Mr. Atkins' and Mr. Sullivan's
appointments to the Big Game Commercial Services Board.
ACTION NARRATIVE
3:30:15 PM
CHAIR CATHY GIESSEL called the Senate Resources Standing
Committee meeting to order at 3:30 p.m. Present at the call to
order were Senators Stedman, Coghill, and Chair Giessel.
Senators Hughes and Meyer arrived shortly thereafter.
^Confirmation Hearings: Big Game Commercial Services Board
Confirmation Hearings: Big Game Commercial Services Board
3:31:00 PM
CHAIR GIESSEL announced confirmation hearings for the Big Game
Commercial Service Board and noted that it oversees the
licensing and regulation activities of providers of commercial
services to big game hunters in the interests of the state's
wildlife resources. They regulate hunting guides, assistants,
and transporters. There were two appointees and she started out
by welcoming Thomas Sullivan, a new appointee to the board.
TOM SULLIVAN, representing himself, Anchorage, Alaska, said he
plans to retire this year or next and is interested in doing
public service. This is one of the boards that he is interested
in serving on, along with the Board of Game and the Board of
Fisheries. Those resources are why he came to Alaska in the
first place and he is happy to contribute to them if he can.
3:32:52 PM
CHAIR GIESSEL asked him to talk about his experience with the
state's hunting sports.
MR. SULLIVAN answered that he has had a love of hunting since he
was small boy growing up in Alabama. Hunting and fishing is what
brought him to Alaska originally. He has hunted bear, moose, and
caribou in Alaska, but today he hunts more in Wyoming, because
he doesn't have enough time to hunt otherwise, but that will be
remedied when he retires. He has years of experience hunting in
different states. He worked as a volunteer instructor for fish
and game teaching a bow hunter certification course. He was a
wildlife conservation officer at Eielson Air Force Base for 26
years and has done a lot of competitive shooting. Guns, hunting,
and fishing are things he loves and wants to continue doing.
3:34:32 PM
SENATOR STEDMAN asked his opinion on privatization of big game
animals in Alaska and of collective ownership of natural
resources including game animals relative to Alaska's
Constitution.
MR. SULLIVAN replied the he didn't understand what he meant by
"privatization," but the state's fish and game resources are
here for everyone to share and take care of.
SENATOR STEDMAN explained that there is always an interest in
Alaska's natural resources whether it be oil, gas, fish, or
sheep. Whoever is in the particular business of harvesting it
would like to own it and reap the value of ownership. But in
Alaska the resources are owned in common, unlike other states,
and he wanted to know Mr. Sullivan's position on that issue.
MR. SULLIVAN said he didn't like the idea of a few people owning
any of the fish and game resources. Those resources should be
shared equally among all the people of Alaska.
SENATOR STEDMAN said he understands the sharing, but his concern
is that industry is trying to privatize those resources much
like what was done with the fisheries, particularly with halibut
IFQs [Individual Fishing Quotas] on the federal side, which are
handled a little bit differently than the state's fisheries
permit system.
3:37:10 PM
MR. SULLIVAN responded that he understands what Senator Stedman
is saying and he wouldn't like to see that. Personally, that is
not in the best interests of all Alaskans.
SENATOR COGHILL said that goes to the heart of the question
being debated in Juneau, which is about giving concessions to
guides as a management tool.
MR. SULLIVAN said he didn't know of any circumstances where that
is being pushed on the board, and furthermore, he is against it.
SENATOR COGHILL thanked him for his military service and his
willingness to serve in Alaska. He said allocation is a really
tough issue and asked if he had talked to anyone about how this
board would operate in some of those areas.
MR. SULLIVAN replied that didn't come up at all in their first
three-day meeting.
3:39:56 PM
SENATOR COGHILL said access into hunting and fishing areas is
one of the things Alaskans hold very dear, but they are having
to compete for them on a national and international basis. He
asked if Mr. Sullivan could look out for the citizens of Alaska
when it comes to access to its game and fishing resources.
MR. SULLIVAN replied that he shares frustrations with not having
access to some lands, too, and would do all that he could for
all Alaskans.
CHAIR GIESSEL asked if he heard anything about the board's large
outstanding budget shortfall.
MR. SULLIVAN answered yes; it is a significant deficit that
needs to be addressed, and they have a plan to eliminate it in
the next three years. Using his financial experience, he did an
initial analysis and is waiting for information from the
department before deciding if they are on the right track or
not. They believe an accounting mistake created the problem in
the first place and they really want to clear it up.
CHAIR GIESSEL said it was more than $1 million at one time, more
than an accounting error. It pertains to the amount of
litigation this board has had to deal with mostly over
concession areas. She thanked him for agreeing to serve on this
board if he is confirmed.
3:44:47 PM
CHAIR GIESSEL invited James Atkins to comment on his re-
appointment to the Big Game Commercial Services Board. He sits
in the seat of a transporter and has served one four-year term
already.
3:45:10 PM
JAMES ATKINS, representing himself, Anchorage, Alaska, responded
that he goes by "Tom Atkins" and has lived in Alaska for 45
years and has been involved in the guiding and flying business
for 35 years. Now, as a retired construction worker, he mostly
flies hunters in Bush Alaska. He knows a lot of the people in
the industry and it's his pleasure to serve on the board.
SENATOR COGHILL thanked him for serving and said privatization
of guide concession areas has come up and asked him to explain
what some of the safeguards are for making sure people are both
lawful and handled properly in the transporter business.
3:46:55 PM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI joined the committee.
MR. ATKINS answered that he is involved with people on both
sides of the fence when it comes to concession areas. He flies
for guides, and for the public that wants to go hunting, but
most of his business is from flying guided hunters. Years ago,
there were private concessions on state land and there still is
on federal land. He flies for guides who have concessions on
federal land and he may also fly a resident hunter in at the
same time. Guides compete to provide a good hunt. Mr. Atkins
said he would never put a client, guided or unguided, on top of
another camp; he doesn't care who it is.
He said a [state] guide concession program would not be bad, but
there is strong competition amongst the guides. Some would be
left out and certain areas would have huge conflicts. He is a
transporter; he works for both sides and that is what he will
continue doing - with the legislature's permission.
SENATOR COGHILL said the legislature will debate how a
concession is done, but maybe he could help resolve one of the
big complaints over places where transporters quite often put
campers on top of each other. When Senator Coghill was a
youngster he was told he had the right to do that, but it was a
matter of respect. Now rights and respect for areas are being
misused and he asked if there is a methodology within this board
to discipline people - guide or transporter - who are showing
huge disrespect that results in tension for the whole industry.
3:51:30 PM
MR. ATKINS answered that the "guide board" just tasked its
investigative force with reviewing its ethics laws and putting
teeth into them so they will be obeyed. He said there are a few
bad guides, but a whole lot of good ones who want to take care
of the land. When guides had use areas, they would manage the
game on it like a game warden. Now, a lot of people out there
transport clients and don't have a license to do it and it's an
enforcement issue.
SENATOR COGHILL said he hoped they could find a mechanism for
dealing those who don't abide by any rules. He asked if the
board is talking about how to work with the different private
land owners on tensions arising from federal and state
management.
MR. ATKINS replied that he didn't understand the question, but
Native Corporations are represented on the board, and as a
transporter, he is very careful to have permission to be on a
piece of land. Unlicensed people don't have that restriction,
but those who are invested in making a living out of it are
trying to make sure people are on the right land and have
permission to be there. A lot of Native Corporations allow
access; sometimes there is a charge and sometimes just a
permission slip. "Everybody is trying to get along. That's the
main thing."
CHAIR GIESSEL finding no further questions, thanked him for
joining them.
^Confirmation Hearing: Commissioner, Department of Natural
Resources
Confirmation Hearing: Commissioner,
Department of Natural Resources
CHAIR GIESSEL introduced Andy Mack, the Commissioner of the
Department of Natural Resources (DNR). She said the mission of
this department is to develop, conserve, and maximize the use of
Alaska's natural resources consistent with the public interest.
DNR manages all the state-owned land, water, and natural
resources, except for fish and game, on behalf of the people of
Alaska. That is approximately 100 million acres. Approximately
60 million acres of that is tidelands, shorelands, and submerged
lands with 40,000 miles of coast land; it also has 40 percent of
the entire nation's fresh water flow.
3:58:17 PM
ANDY MACK, Commissioner-designee, Department of Natural
Resources (DNR), Anchorage, Alaska, said his parents met as
Jesuit missionaries at Copper Center in the late 50s and
eventually moved to Soldotna where he was born in 1954. He is a
proud graduate of the Soldotna High School Class of '82. He went
to college in Minnesota and came back to Alaska to work at
various jobs: in the Nikiski Agrium Plant, as a commercial
fisherman, eventually finding his way to law school.
He said over the past decade-plus he has been working on natural
resource issues on the North Slope, in particular, including
development in what is state-owned land on the North Slope
(NPRA), the OCS, and the 1002 area. After working both as a
public employee for the North Slope Borough, he moved into the
private sector. Most recently he worked as a resource
development consultant and a managing director at a private
equity firm.
He explained that four or five years before taking this job he
was a "land man." His principal role was to understand how
federal and state law worked, what the options were for the land
owner, how they could maximize the benefits of the use of their
land, and potentially access more land. He worked with federal
agencies, state government, local municipalities, and with
Alaska Native Corporations, both regional and villages. He found
himself working on many interesting issues on the North Slope
and eventually the Governor asked him to apply his skill set at
DNR. He accepted the position and began on July 1, 2016. He
said, "It's been an interesting seven months."
4:01:48 PM
He said one of the first things he dealt with was the on-going
transition in the AKLNG Project, which this committee is
extremely well-versed in especially the state's
responsibilities. Most of those responsibilities are
memorialized in SB 138. When he took this job, he was faced with
the fact that having an equity participation in this project had
become very difficult and the parties generally agreed that
something different was needed. So, they embarked on a
transition where the state would take the lead and the producer
partners would (although they have differing opinions) all come
to this project and see how they could support it. He came on
board during the transition and helped the state realizing was
how it would take over doing what the companies were doing. In
other words, ExxonMobil was the lead for the AKLNG Project and
they had about 200 employees putting together resource reports
moving through the pre-FEED process. As they got to the end of
that process, they were determining how they would ramp that
team down and the department was doing the same thing.
COMMISSIONER MACK said one of the first things he had to do was
consider both the historical context, what the department's
responsibilities were going forward, and what the department
needed to make sure that in the event some really important
decisions had to be made for Alaska - any decision involving
taking the gas royalty in kind (RIK) or royalty in value (RIV),
gas balancing issues, CO2 disposition, field cost allowances,
and commercial issues - they could very quickly start the
process of analyzing the options.
He said the department retained some very important talent:
Black & Veatch as a commercial consultant, the services of Mr.
Steve Wright who was on the AKLNG Project team and was the
upstream lead, and they were very lucky to get Ed King who used
to work at the Department of Revenue (DOR), Department of
Natural Resources (DNR), and the Division of Oil and Gas (DOG).
They retained some of their core capabilities at a much lower
cost while keeping in mind that at any point if there is an
event that requires analysis, they can ramp back up very
quickly.
He said the other thing he faced was the fact that the
department had to consolidate its budget, and it is an amazing
testament to the 900 employees at DNR that they proposed about a
5 percent reduction in the Governor's budget while still being
able to meet all of the state's obligations and not just clear
the bar, but going beyond.
4:06:49 PM
He stated that the third thing he stepped into was a process at
the end of a particular federal administration, and as the
months ticked by in late 2016, he started to notice that the
pace of decision-making by several federal agencies was
accelerating as well as the departure from historical process
and the increased willingness of federal agencies to try to set
markers in the public policy arena. He spent a lot of his time
engaged in "policy combat" conversations trying to understand
and position the state's administration in the strongest spot.
CHAIR GIESSEL said brought up the Public Access Defense Unit and
the RS-2477 issue and asked how DNR has been involved in the
Klutina Road lawsuit effort.
COMMISSIONER MACK explained that the department has historically
utilized a four-person group of employees to understand what the
options are and to assert access where it benefits Alaska: for
example, building the 11-mile Izembek Road in a refuge, it
focused on what the claims might be in order to fully appreciate
the options. A hydrologist position was added, because
navigability is another big access issue.
COMMISSIONER MACK explained that at statehood, all navigable
waters were conveyed to the state. It has resulted in endless
meetings, conversations, and letters, and many times in court
pushing back and forth with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM).
He said about a year ago the state actually won the Mosquito
Fork case, which answered the question of whether the Mosquito
Fork River was navigable. The state thought it was "painfully
obvious," and asked the BLM to disclaim their interest in the
water body. They didn't do so. They went to trial and spent a
tremendous amount of money, and at the 11th hour the BLM did
disclaim their interest in the water body. After that decision
was made, the federal district court found that they had acted
in bad faith and subsequently awarded the state almost $600,000
in attorney's fees.
4:12:17 PM
He noted that this is not unusual. The state has argued over the
Yukon River and some other what he thinks are plainly navigable
waterways. He is still trying to understand how the state has
ended up in the position of having to assert it owns the water
body, because it was all conveyed to the state at statehood. So,
the hydrologist position was added to deal with all the
navigability issues. He is optimistic that it will save the
state some money in court costs.
He said the RS-2477 issue is incredibly important to the state,
and in the late 90s there was legislation to identify these
historical rights-of-way (RS-2477). DNR appreciates that it is
an important tool. There are also [Alaska Native Claims
Settlement Act] 17(b) access issues, access over Alaska Native
Corporation land where the state has land on the other side and
it's very difficult to get to. Most recently, the state
successfully discussed, negotiated, and agreed to a deal with
the Eklutna Corporation in the Knik River area.
He said the department realized the Klutina issue was a very
strong case for the State of Alaska as an historical right-of-
way (RS-2477). They also realized from the confluence of the
Klutina Lake and the Klutina River another four miles of access
was needed to get to state land (on the southwest end of the
lake).
COMMISSIONER MACK said the department had a very thorough
discussion with the Attorney General and her staff about options
and they understood the concerns, the historical context the
department operates in, what the RS-2477 means to the state, and
with an eye towards the future. The department is very happy
with the representation it is getting.
CHAIR GIESSEL reiterated that DNR is the client of the Attorney
General in this case, and asked what his opinion is about the
Attorney General and her proposed settlement to the Klutina
issue.
COMMISSIONER MACK answered he identified it as a priority early
on and talked with the Department of Law (DOL) about what the
objectives and principles are, and what is needed to get a good
result in this case, as well as protect the RS-2477 process. His
opinion is that they are getting very good representation right
now, but nothing has been resolved. The trial date has been
vacated while a proposed settlement is being worked out.
4:18:00 PM
CHAIR GIESSEL asked what his opinion would be of a settlement
that relinquished the 100-foot RS-2477 right-of-way and
diminished it to 60-foot 17(b) easement.
COMMISSIONER MACK related that two principals are at stake: one
is the longer-term interest of the State of Alaska. For example,
the Izembek has a three-fold strategy: solve the issue by
getting a road built through the political process in which
Congress approves a land exchange. The second option is an
ANILCA [Alaska National Interest Lands Conservation Act] Title
11 claim; the third option is to establish an RS-2477.
He said first, they are going to make sure that they protect the
process for identifying and perfecting other RS-2477s. Second,
he wants a good result in this particular case that recognizes
that first principle.
SENATOR STEDMAN shifted the same topic from the frozen north to
the tropical south of Alaska and said the Tongass is about the
size of West Virginia, but West Virginia has about 30,000 timber
jobs. Alaska has not more than 300. They have been dealing with
the roadless rule with utility corridors (4407 easements), but
there seems to be a reluctance from the United States Forest
Service to convey these to the state. They are trying to clean
up these easements, so Alaska can have a transportation system
in the power corridor.
COMMISSIONER MACK he would characterize it as more than just
"reluctance" to perfect these easements. They just went through
the process of protesting the final Tongass plan and it was
particularly unsatisfying. Alaska was forced into a process -
even though they requested to be distinct and separate as a
sovereign in dealing with the federal government - of sitting in
a room with every other protestor including groups that are not
based in Alaska and very thoroughly discussed the state's
objections to that particular Forest Service plan that included
those easements. But they may have only achieved the ability for
the state to take that plan to court, because it didn't get any
relief. At the very least, Alaska preserved its legal options
for remedy, through the options are thin.
4:22:21 PM
SENATOR STEDMAN thanked him and the department for helping them
deal with that issue in the Tongass.
SENATOR MEYER remarked that it looks like most of his resource
background work in oil and gas was for legal analysis or
consulting and asked if he had prior experience in hunting and
fishing before getting this job.
COMMISSIONER MACK replied that he didn't know how one can
prepare to be DNR commissioner. Most people have a mining, or
oil and gas background, not both. He doesn't have any financial
training other than learning on the job when he was a managing
director at PT Capital. He uses his training as a lawyer in both
the public and private sectors.
SENATOR MEYER agreed that it would be hard to have experience in
all the department issues. He asked if President Trump were to
call him tomorrow and ask what's the first thing he could do for
the state, what he would say.
4:27:24 PM
COMMISSIONER MACK replied that he would make a compound answer
to that: one, open up access in the Arctic. That means two
things: support legislation, which requires and compels the
government to hold two lease sales in the 1002 area and, two,
rewrite the integrated activity plan for the National Petroleum
Reserve Alaska (NPRA). Doing so would provide access to hundreds
of millions, if not billions, of barrels of currently hard-to-
get-at oil.
SENATOR MEYER said that was a good answer. Access to that much
oil would make the commissioner's financial background useful.
He asked how permitting can that be expedited at the federal
level.
COMMISSIONER MACK said he just mentioned what he considers
significant federal action, which in the case of the 1002 area,
is required before access can be provided via lease sales - to
basically create a property right in the 1002, which he thinks
can be done safely and effectively.
He said in the NPRA, one of the things that happened at the
beginning of the Obama administration is they took a United
States Geologic Survey (USGS) estimate for the economically
recoverable oil base and downgraded it from about 9.5 billion
barrels to 900 million barrels. Then they followed that up with
removing 50 percent of the land from the area available for
leasing, although some of that is probably more valuable as
caribou habitat. But some of it was just next to what people are
hearing about in the news with respect to Willow.
He said he thinks the number is a little closer to the original
USGS estimate on the basis that close to 30 wells are already
drilled at CD-5. And gravel has been laid for GMT-1 which is
estimated to be 30,000 barrels a day. A plan is in place to get
a permit for and to sanction GMT-2, which is also supposed to be
a 30,000-barrels a day. Willow was just announced to be a 300
million-barrel find. So, it doesn't take somebody who has a
special degree or insider information to figure out very quickly
they have already probably achieved 1 billion barrels of
production in those four distinct projects. The rest of the NPRA
has some outstanding prospects, which the state can along with
the stakeholders on the North Slope devise a tremendously strong
plan which gives the ability to continue to move further west
into the NPRA.
COMMISSIONER MACK said a couple of things he would do
immediately are to argue that Alaska has spent quite a few years
perfecting its safety and efficiency crafts, particularly on the
North Slope; they are "some of the most safely run, most
efficiently run, projects on the globe." But on November 3,
2015, the U.S. president wrote a letter adding five agencies -
the Department of Defense, the Department of Agriculture, the
Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), the Department of
Interior, and a fifth agency - to the ones already required
under the Clean Water Act to develop a secondary type of
compensatory mitigation.
He said Alaska has never shied away from doing things safely.
Companies he works with are never bashful if they think adding
protections gets them to production quicker. This policy wasn't
generated in Alaska, but it has significant impacts here.
4:33:56 PM
SENATOR MEYER said he was thinking more along the lines of the
Armstrong Repsol discovery and the Environmental Impact
Statement (EIS) and the federal permits they will probably have
to get. He would like to see the oil get into the pipe faster.
COMMISSIONER MACK commented that is a good point and the Corps
of Engineers is the lead agency in writing that permit, because
it requires a Clean Water Act Permit. What is relevant to the
Armstrong case is that the Corps has taken over primacy for
Clean Water Act permits, but Armstrong has a Memorandum of
Understanding (MOU) with the Environmental Protection Agency
(EPA), which is designated the lead agency; however, in many
cases, it was deemed that the Corps of Engineers was more
relevant and better able to produce these permits.
He explained that under this MOU, one of the things that can
happen is the EPA and U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service would be at
the table with the Corps of Engineers in certain circumstances,
and they would be pursuing their objectives under different
federal acts. There is a concern that at the end of the day,
even though the Corps might want to write a permit for that
project, that the EPA would threaten to elevate it to
Washington, D.C. for further negotiation and discussion. This is
what happened with CD-5 to the point that eventually the Corps
denied its permit, because of concerns based on what they were
hearing from their sister agency, the EPA.
He said they are working very actively - Armstrong has actually
employed OPMP [Office of Project Management and Permitting] team
that is doing everything it can to work out the bugs. Again, he
said Alaska has been extremely successful in developing in the
Arctic safely, efficiently, and with as small a footprint as
possible.
4:36:20 PM
SENATOR HUGHES went back to the access issue and said the
federal government can actually vacate 17(b) easements, and
asked if it looks like the Klutina case will end up being a
17(b) easement and at what point would the department, as a
defendant, proceed to litigate.
COMMISSIONER MACK answered that his ability to respond to the
specifics of this settlement is zero. But he could say that
there are a number of options when one is faced with these
circumstances and they have to be weighed and measured very
carefully. He has worked with the Eklutna Corporation to allow
folks to get from the Knik Public Use Area, over Eklutna land
into the valley near the Knik Glacier where there is state land.
SENATOR HUGHES asked what he thought the next "public access hot
spot" might be - possibly the Rex Trail - and what he is doing
to head it off.
COMMISSIONER MACK answered that the Rex Trail is definitely an
issue of concern that they have tried to be very thoughtful
about. In particular, he knows the Rex Trail has become a
"traditional hunting access point" for a lot of Alaskans. A
program limiting certain circumstances was laid out, like no
vehicles above 1,500 pounds and that didn't have certain kinds
of tracks. He didn't know what the next hot spot would be.
4:40:35 PM
SENATOR HUGHES said she was particularly concerned with the Rex
Trail which is really the result of the Alaska Department of
Fish and Game (ADF&G) doing a good job of increasing the moose
population but the Department of Natural Resources (DNR) didn't
provide adequate access to them. She knows of another area where
ADF&G is doing a good job with active predator management west
of the Susitna River, (close to a large human population), and
DNR needs to do a good job of providing access there, too.
4:41:53 PM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI said a number of years ago, the legislature
funded a boat ramp access on the Kasilof River where a sport
fisherman died when a cord used in lieu of a boat ramp snapped
and killed him. Now he understands that the project has slowed
down and wanted to know why. It's dangerous to get drift boats
out, which is important for his constituents who access that
river for dip netting and fishing.
COMMISSIONER MACK replied that he would be very happy to talk
about this as access around the Kenai and Kasilof Rivers are
obviously big concerns. He disclosed that up to 30,000 people
visit the mouth of the Kenai River annually to participate in
one of a number of fisheries: personal use, sport, or
subsistence. He said the mouth of the Kasilof River is an area
that is starting to draw ever-increasing numbers of visitors,
close to about 10,000 people annually. It's complicated to have
that many people on a river system, which is about a third the
size of the Kenai River.
He explained that a large part of this issue is being driven by
successful fisheries management and the types of fisheries that
were created. People are going to go where the fish are and the
department doesn't have any control over where they go. In
response to that, the State of Alaska sought and obtained
funding for a parking lot project on the north side of the river
which is half-way done. They are going to do everything possible
to get that completed before people show up at the mouth this
summer.
Large numbers of people are also coming to the south side of the
Kasilof River. The legislature initiated a two-fold
appropriation in 2010/11 that was labeled in both cases simply
for "boat take-out." So, the department looked at a variety of
options. Significant concerns were expressed by over 100 local
community members. Letters came from three organizations: Kenai
River Sportfishing Association that supported it, the United
Cook Inlet Association that opposed it, and the Kenai Peninsula
Borough which expressed serious concerns that they had actually
even started the pre-process of getting permits for the
facility.
So, he decided to stop moving forward on the boat ramp project.
If built as proposed it would have brought more people to an
area that doesn't have a management plan or a budget to address
it. He is not suggesting a huge budget, but if 10,000 people
show up to recreate, it seems like they should think about how
to help them with sanitary and safety issues. The City of Kenai
has been able to do some things around the Kenai River, because
it is within the City of Kenai. But the Kasilof has no municipal
government other than the borough.
COMMISSIONER MACK said his intention is to go back and have a
conversation with the stakeholders about how to best manage all
of that activity around that river system. How that is done
should contemplate a very popular fishery which is very
important to the people who go down there; they are filling
their freezers with fish for the winter and that is what they
intend to do.
4:48:09 PM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI commented that it concerns him that the
drift fleet is getting involved in a sport river boat launch
issue. The legislature, as the appropriating body, had this
debate several years ago and appropriated it, and he didn't
think the executive branch gets to say no. The governor could
have vetoed it, but he didn't. He said, "I think you have an
obligation to build it."
CHAIR GIESSEL opened public comment on all three appointees.
4:49:33 PM
WAYNE KUBAT, Vice President, Alaska Hunters Association,
Wasilla, Alaska, supported James Atkins' appointment to the Big
Game Commercial Services Board. He related his wide background
in the hunting arena saying he first met Mr. Atkins several
decades ago when he rescued Mr. Kubat and his wife's dog out of
an upside-down Super Cub in a remote part of Alaska. He didn't
see him again until 20 or 30 years later at a Big Game
Commercial Services Board meeting in Fairbanks. A few years
after that he was a transporter member on the board.
Other than being just a really nice guy, he said he appreciates
Tom's experience and professionalism on the board as a
transporter member. He stated that Mr. Atkins has a wealth of
outdoor experience, does his homework, and is willing to listen
and think things through. He said Mr. Atkins has no preset
agenda to benefit himself and no axe to grind against any
special interest or group. He stated that he has not heard Mr.
Atkins talk bad about anyone and never met anyone that has had
anything bad to say about him.
4:51:43 PM
THOR STACY, lobbyist and Contract Director, Government Affairs,
Alaska Professional Hunters Association (APHA), Juneau, Alaska,
supported Mr. Atkins' and Mr. Sullivan's appointments to the Big
Game Commercial Services Board. He said Mr. Sullivan has an
above-average background for a member of the public on the board
(that has dedicated seats) as well as being a conscientious and
sensitive regulator.
MR. STACY said he would caution a new board member that the
board itself doesn't have the tools to directly address the
drivers of the costs of litigation resulting from an unregulated
guide industry on state land. Similarly, the APHA doesn't have
tools to argue for the state or for the state's primacy where
regulation of their industry for land access is concerned; that
is a huge developing issue in the Tongass Forest.
CHAIR GIESSEL, finding no further comments, closed public
testimony and invited Mr. Mack back to the table.
4:54:28 PM
SENATOR COGHILL thanked him for the work the administration is
doing on the 1002 issue. Should he get to see President Trump,
the public land orders are at the top of the list and to let
them know if there is any way the legislature can help. He also
asked if he knew of anything they could do to help 404
permitting that has been the bane of getting things done up
here.
COMMISSIONER MACK answered that he had the opportunity in
Washington, D.C., during the National Governor's Association
meeting to meet with then-nominee Zenke and administrator Pruitt
and the consensus was that they were going to start with
understanding the basis for state's concerns. The most important
thing to do in his eyes is point to the "pretty strong record in
Alaska" of safe and responsible resource development, talking
about that consistently is important. The reality is that people
are concerned about the environment and the world we live in.
4:57:11 PM
SENATOR COGHILL said he totally agrees with what is being done
in the defense of submerged waters in Alaska and it is a battle
that "we don't need to lighten up on at this point."
4:57:38 PM
CHAIR GIESSEL said the Department of Environmental Conservation
(DEC) is holding workshops on Tier 3 waters around the state and
asked how DNR is involved, if at all.
COMMISSIONER MACK replied that he didn't know how the department
is involved, but he would get back to her on that. He knows they
have some concerns.
CHAIR GIESSEL asked if the AKLNG Project has all the land
rights-of-way it needs secured.
COMMISSIONER MACK replied he believed it does, but the access
could be better. Some private land owners are on the route, but
he is not an expert on it.
CHAIR GIESSEL asked him to forward any clarification on that to
her and asked if the committee was okay with forwarding this
nominee. Everyone nodded yes. She stated the following:
In accordance with AS 39.05.080, the Resources
Committee reviewed the following and recommends these
appointments be forwarded to a joint session for
consideration: Big Game Commercial Services Board:
James (Tom) Atkins, Thomas Sullivan; Commissioner of
Department of Natural Resources (DNR), Andy Mack.
This does not reflect an intent by any of the members
to vote for or against the confirmation of these
individuals during any further sessions.
5:00:35 PM
CHAIR GIESSEL adjourned the Senate Resources Committee meeting
at 5:00 p.m.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| 1. Big Game Commercial Services Board Fact Sheet.pdf |
SRES 3/15/2017 3:30:00 PM |
Big Game Commercial Services Board |
| 2. Comm Services Board - Resume - James Atkins.pdf |
SRES 3/15/2017 3:30:00 PM |
Big Game Commercial Services Board |
| 3. Comm Services Board - Resume - Thomas Sullivan.pdf |
SRES 3/15/2017 3:30:00 PM |
Big Game Commercial Services Board |
| 4. Natural Resources Commissioner - Resume - Andy Mack.pdf |
SRES 3/15/2017 3:30:00 PM |
Dept of Natural Resources |
| Corrected AGENDA-3-15-17.pdf |
SRES 3/15/2017 3:30:00 PM |
|
| 5. Comm Services Board - Support for Sullivan - Kelly Vrem - 3 - 20 - 17.pdf |
SRES 3/15/2017 3:30:00 PM |
Big Game Commercial Services Board |