03/11/2008 05:30 PM Senate RESOURCES
| Audio | Topic | 
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB267 | |
| SB284 | |
| Adjourn | 
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | SB 284 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HB 267 | TELECONFERENCED | |
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
              SENATE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                         March 11, 2008                                                                                         
                           5:37 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Charlie Huggins, Chair                                                                                                  
Senator Lyda Green                                                                                                              
Senator Gary Stevens                                                                                                            
Senator Bill Wielechowski                                                                                                       
Senator Thomas Wagoner                                                                                                          
Senator Lesil McGuire                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bert Stedman, Vice Chair                                                                                                
                                                                                                                              
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 267(RES)                                                                                                  
"An  Act relating  to authorizing  the state  to join  with other                                                               
states  entering into  the Wildlife  Violator Compact;  excluding                                                               
commercial fishing and big game  commercial hunting services from                                                               
the provisions  of the compact;  and directing the  initiation of                                                               
civil actions to revoke appropriate  licenses in this state based                                                               
on a licensee's violation of or  failure to comply with the terms                                                               
of a wildlife  resource citation issued in another  state that is                                                               
a party to the compact."                                                                                                        
     HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 284                                                                                                             
"An Act  relating to  the membership of  the Board  of Fisheries;                                                               
and providing for an effective date."                                                                                           
     HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                              
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 267                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: WILDLIFE VIOLATOR COMPACT                                                                                          
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) JOHNSON                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
01/04/08       (H)       PREFILE RELEASED 1/4/08                                                                                
01/15/08       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
01/15/08       (H)       RES, FIN                                                                                               
01/18/08       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124                                                                              
01/18/08       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
01/18/08       (H)       MINUTE(RES)                                                                                            
01/28/08       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124                                                                              
01/28/08       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
01/28/08       (H)       MINUTE(RES)                                                                                            
02/06/08       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124                                                                              
02/06/08       (H)       Moved CSHB 267(RES) Out of Committee                                                                   
02/06/08       (H)       MINUTE(RES)                                                                                            
02/08/08       (H)       RES RPT CS(RES) NT 4DP 2NR 1AM                                                                         
02/08/08       (H)       DP: SEATON, FAIRCLOUGH, GATTO, JOHNSON                                                                 
02/08/08       (H)       NR: GUTTENBERG, EDGMON                                                                                 
02/08/08       (H)       AM: KAWASAKI                                                                                           
02/19/08       (H)       FIN AT 1:30 PM HOUSE FINANCE 519                                                                       
02/19/08       (H)       Moved CSHB 267(RES) Out of Committee                                                                   
02/19/08       (H)       MINUTE(FIN)                                                                                            
02/20/08       (H)       FIN RPT CS(RES) NT 8DP 1NR                                                                             
02/20/08       (H)       DP: KELLY, CRAWFORD, STOLTZE, HAWKER,                                                                  
                         NELSON, THOMAS, MEYER, CHENAULT                                                                        
02/20/08       (H)       NR: GARA                                                                                               
03/03/08       (H)       TRANSMITTED TO (S)                                                                                     
03/03/08       (H)       VERSION: CSHB 267(RES)                                                                                 
03/04/08       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
03/04/08       (S)       RES                                                                                                    
03/10/08       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
03/10/08       (S)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/10/08       (S)       MINUTE(RES)                                                                                            
03/11/08       (S)       RES AT 5:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SB 284                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: BOARD OF FISHERIES: MEMBERSHIP                                                                                     
SPONSOR(s): SENATOR(s) GREEN                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
02/19/08       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
02/19/08       (S)       RES, FIN                                                                                               
03/11/08       (S)       RES AT 5:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN BURKE WALDRON                                                                                                           
Division of Wildlife Troopers                                                                                                   
Department of Public Safety (DPS)                                                                                               
Anchorage, AK                                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions on HB 267.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
KEVIN SAXBY, Senior Assistant Attorney General                                                                                  
Department of Law (DOL)                                                                                                         
Anchorage, AK                                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions on HB 267.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
JEANNE OSTNES                                                                                                                   
Staff to Representative Craig Johnson                                                                                           
Alaska State Capitol                                                                                                            
Juneau, AK                                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on HB 267 for the sponsor.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
JANEY WINEINGER                                                                                                                 
Staff to Senator Green                                                                                                          
Alaska State Capitol                                                                                                            
Juneau, AK                                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on CSSB 284(RES) version V for the                                                              
sponsor.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
VIRGIL UMPHENOUR, Chairman                                                                                                      
Fairbanks Fish and Game Advisory Committee                                                                                      
North Pole, AK                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported CSSB 284(RES) version V.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MIKE FENTON, President                                                                                                          
Kenai Professional Guide Association                                                                                            
Sterling, AK                                                                                                                    
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 284.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
ANDY COUCH, member                                                                                                              
Matanuska Fish and Game Advisory Committee                                                                                      
Wasilla, AK                                                                                                                     
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 284.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
WES HUMBYRD, representing himself                                                                                               
Homer, AK                                                                                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SB 284.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
BOB PENNY                                                                                                                       
Cook Inlet Sport Fishing Association                                                                                            
Soldotna, AK                                                                                                                    
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 284.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MIKE TINKER, representing himself                                                                                               
Fairbanks, AK                                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported CSSB 284(RES) version V.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MONTE ROBERTS, representing himself                                                                                             
Soldotna, AK                                                                                                                    
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 284.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
JOHN MCCOMBS, representing himself                                                                                              
Cook Inlet Area                                                                                                                 
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SB 284.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
BEAVER NELSON, representing himself                                                                                             
Homer, AK                                                                                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SB 284.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
BRUCE KNOWLES, representing himself                                                                                             
Willow, AK                                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 284.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
RICKY GEASE, Executive Director                                                                                                 
Kenai River Sportfishing Association                                                                                            
Kenai, AK                                                                                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 284.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
DAVID MARTIN, Chairman                                                                                                          
Central Peninsula Advisory Committee                                                                                            
Clam Gulch, AK                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SB 284.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
HAL HUME, representing himself,                                                                                                 
Fairbanks, AK                                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 284                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MARVIN PETERS, representing himself                                                                                             
Homer, AK                                                                                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SB 284.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
TOM PAYTON, Chairman                                                                                                            
Mt. Enlos Fish and Game Advisory Committee                                                                                      
Squintna, AK                                                                                                                    
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 284.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REUBEN HANKE                                                                                                                    
Kenai Sportfishing Association                                                                                                  
Kenai, AK                                                                                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 284.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
HOWARD DELO                                                                                                                     
Board of Fisheries                                                                                                              
Mat-Su Area                                                                                                                     
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SB 284.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
RON RAINEY, representing himself                                                                                                
Kenai, AK                                                                                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 284.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
DENNIS HAMANN, Chairman                                                                                                         
Mat-Su Fish and Game Advisory Committee                                                                                         
Mat-Su Area                                                                                                                     
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 284.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
BEN ELLIS, representing himself                                                                                                 
Anchorage, AK                                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 284.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
DAN LEWIS, representing himself                                                                                                 
Wasilla, AK                                                                                                                     
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 284.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  CHARLIE  HUGGINS  called  the  Senate  Resources  Standing                                                             
Committee meeting to order at 5:37:08  PM. Present at the call to                                                             
order were Senators Green, Wagoner, Wielechowski and Huggins.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
            CSHB 267(RES)-WILDLIFE VIOLATOR COMPACT                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
5:37:31 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  CHARLIE  HUGGINS announced  CSHB  267(RES)  to be  up  for                                                               
consideration.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN BURKE WALDRON, Division  of Wildlife Troopers, Department                                                               
of  Public  Safety  (DPS),  said   he  was  available  to  answer                                                               
questions on HB 267.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
KEVIN  SAXBY, Senior  Assistant Attorney  General, Department  of                                                               
Law  (DOL),  stated that  he  was  assigned  to the  Division  of                                                               
Wildlife Conservation and the Board of Game.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
5:40:07 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR STEVENS joined the committee.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
JEANNE OSTNES, staff to Representative  Craig Johnson, sponsor of                                                               
HB 267,  related that yesterday  they talked about the  form that                                                               
the DPS would  be entering data into. She said  the trooper would                                                               
need a user  name and an ID  to get onto the website.  She said a                                                               
compact  state could  ratify or  review different  suspensions or                                                               
actions that  were happening  in the other  compact states.   The                                                               
report could be browsed through by either violator or citation.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Besides the  50 states,  the compact  includes 18  provinces from                                                               
Canada, Guam,  the Virgin  Islands and  Puerto Rico;  it includes                                                               
1,834 counties along  with 239 countries. So no  matter where the                                                               
person is living  in the world, there is a  way to identify where                                                               
they are  and what action  was taken  against them. She  said the                                                               
software is smart  enough that the state  can choose specifically                                                               
how it can look at the different animal species.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS interrupted, "Let's look at frogs."                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS.  OSTNES responded  that frogs  were included  in the  fishing                                                               
category. She  said each state could  add to the list  and assign                                                               
them on the left.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS asked how the  identities of people with like-names                                                               
would be confirmed.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS.  OSTNES  replied  by  using home  address,  eye  color,  race                                                               
gender, and suspension status.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
5:43:55 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR WAGONER asked  if counties are a  sub-grouping under each                                                               
state.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. OSTNES replied she wasn't  sure because all states have their                                                               
own system.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WAGONER  said the reason  he asked is  that traditionally                                                               
counties outside  of Alaska offer  hunting and  fishing licenses,                                                               
and they are only good within  the boundary of the counties - and                                                               
there are a lot of counties.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. OSTNES  said that taking  violator's names completely  out of                                                               
the database would be a policy  matter for the 28 states that are                                                               
involved, but not doing that  was recommended to help with things                                                               
such  as legal  proceedings after  the fact,  trend analysis  and                                                               
tracking  habitual violators.  Names of  people who  do not  have                                                               
their license  revoked any longer  because "they have  paid their                                                               
dues" stay in another section of the database.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  HUGGINS asked  the  lower  age limit  for  entry into  the                                                               
system.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. OSTNES replied the adult age  of the state the person resides                                                               
in.                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
5:46:16 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR MCGUIRE joined the committee.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS turned to Mr. Saxby with that question.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. SAXBY  answered that age isn't  addressed in the bill,  so it                                                               
would  follow that  that issue  would be  up to  each state,  and                                                               
people under age 16 don't need a license in Alaska.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS.  OSTNES said  that  VISA and  Master Card  as  well as  other                                                               
credit card  businesses can be  hired to do  a spot check  of the                                                               
system.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS asked if this is a certified system.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS.  OSTNES answered  yes and  added  that only  a public  safety                                                               
administrator would  have the  ability to get  into it  to change                                                               
the information. She  said that ADF&G received  some funding last                                                               
year to computerize  its licensing system, and 35  of its largest                                                               
vendors  as well  as all  of their  departments around  the state                                                               
will   soon  be   computerized.  Once   this  bill   passes,  the                                                               
administrator would  be the  person to deal  with the  process of                                                               
how and who would be able to look at the information.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
5:49:50 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR HUGGINS asked  for a quick review of how  this system would                                                               
work for the State Troopers.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN  WALDRON  replied  that  the  DPS  would  administer  the                                                               
compact   simply  because   the   Troopers   are  the   licensing                                                               
enforcement agency and  it would be simpler for  them rather than                                                               
to have  the Alaska Department  of Fish and Game  (ADF&G) forward                                                               
the information to them. One  person would review court judgments                                                               
relating to  fish and wildlife  cases and make  the determination                                                               
on whether to  enter the individual into the  compact database or                                                               
not. Once  those decisions are  made, an in-house clerk  would be                                                               
assigned to  update the list.  Initial start-up may  require more                                                               
effort than  once it is  going. In most states  the administrator                                                               
and clerk spend  between 10-20 hours a month to  update the list.                                                               
Historically Alaska doesn't  have a lot of  revocations and would                                                               
have less than 200 names to enter per year.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR MCGUIRE asked how expungement would work.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN WALDRON answered that peoples'  names would remain in the                                                               
database  and their  revocations would  be listed  as current  or                                                               
not.  They  remain  in  the database  unless  the  member  states                                                               
adopted language to change it.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. OSTNES said that was correct.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS  said that  is probably  unacceptable for  him. The                                                               
average Alaskan  would expect to be  off the list once  they have                                                               
lost their license.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  MCGUIRE agreed  and remarked  that even  Senator Green's                                                               
similar prescription  database bill was  changed to allow  a name                                                               
to come off the  list after a period of time. She  said that is a                                                               
real privacy invasion and asked  if there was anything they could                                                               
do  in  this bill  to  guarantee  expungement after  someone  has                                                               
served their penalty.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. OSTNES replied that she thought so.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI  said  he  understood once  a  license  was                                                               
revoked for three-years, one could  get it again. He thought this                                                               
was  different  than  the prescription  database  bill  in  which                                                               
everyone  was   included,  including   people  who   hadn't  been                                                               
convicted of  anything. Expungement is appropriate  in that case.                                                               
He didn't  see this  bill being different  from a  criminal court                                                               
case; it's a public record once you've violated the statute.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN WALDRON said  he agreed with that; the  purpose for names                                                               
remaining  in  the database  is  to  provide a  criminal  history                                                               
database for court convictions and  sentencing that is similar to                                                               
other  databases.   Troopers  and  prosecutors  could   use  this                                                               
database to  help with sentencing recommendations  and guidelines                                                               
at court hearings.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. OSTNES  said you can find  whether someone had a  small claim                                                               
against them by just looking at the court house computer.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WAGONER said he wasn't  sure that the court house records                                                               
span another 28 states.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
5:58:14 PM                                                                                                                    
CAPTAIN WALDRON said the court  system database is Internet based                                                               
and is available to anyone in any state.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
5:59:15 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR HUGGINS said he would set HB 267 aside.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
5:59:21 PM at ease 6:02:22 PM                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
             SB 284-BOARD OF FISHERIES: MEMBERSHIP                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
6:02:25 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR   CHARLIE  HUGGINS   announced  SB   284  to   be  up   for                                                               
consideration.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR GREEN  moved to  bring CSSB  284(RES), version  V, before                                                               
the committee. There were no objections and it was so ordered.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
JANEY WINEINGER, staff to Senator  Green, sponsor of SB 284, said                                                               
Senator Green introduced this legislation  because she saw a lack                                                               
of fair  and balanced representation  on the Board  of Fisheries.                                                               
She  said  a letter  of  support  from  the  board was  in  their                                                               
packets. The letter said that  of all 122 boards and commissions,                                                               
only four  "are as  lax as  the Board of  Fisheries;" one  is the                                                               
Board of Game.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
She  stated  that  AS  16.05.221  says  that  board  members  are                                                               
appointed  by  the governor  and  confirmed  by the  legislature.                                                               
Members  are  appointed  on  the  basis  of  interest  in  public                                                               
affairs, good  judgment, knowledge  and ability  in the  field of                                                               
action  of  the board  with  a  view  to providing  diversity  of                                                               
interest and  points of view in  the membership. A lot  of boards                                                               
base   membership  on   geographical   requirements  along   with                                                               
certifications, economic requirements  or political affiliations.                                                               
This is not so for the Board of Fisheries.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
The  changes  in  the  CS  will  bring  the  Board  of  Fisheries                                                               
membership  back down  to  seven  members from  the  nine in  the                                                               
original bill and  creates a guideline based on  the user groups.                                                               
The  proposed   board  would  have  two   members  who  represent                                                               
commercial fishing interests  who do not hold and do  not have an                                                               
immediate family  member who  holds a  sport fishing  operator or                                                               
sport  fishing   guide  license;  three  members   who  represent                                                               
personal  use or  subsistence fishing  interests and  who do  not                                                               
hold  and do  not have  an immediate  family member  who holds  a                                                               
commercial fishing permit or crew  member permit; a sport fishing                                                               
operator license or a sport fishing  guide license, or who do not                                                               
own  or have  an immediate  family member  who owns  a commercial                                                               
fish  processing  business;  two   members  who  represent  sport                                                               
fishing  interests  and who  do  not  hold  and  do not  have  an                                                               
immediate family member who holds  a commercial fishing permit or                                                               
crew member  permit and do  not own  or have an  immediate family                                                               
member who owns a commercial processing business.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
She stated  that this  makeup would  guarantee fair  and balanced                                                               
representation  on  the Board  of  Fisheries  for years  to  come                                                               
regardless of  who may be governor  or who may be  in a political                                                               
leadership position at the Department of Fish and Game.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
6:07:14 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked why this CS has a fiscal note.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS.  WINEINGER answered  the original  legislation increased  the                                                               
number of board members to nine;  now it's back to what the board                                                               
is now, seven members.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS asked  if there would be a robust  pool of Alaskans                                                               
available to pick members from in light of all the exclusions.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. WINEINGER answered yes.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR GREEN  remarked that in all  practicality, representation                                                               
has an unwritten tendency to say  there is a Sitka seat, a Kodiak                                                               
seat  and  a  Juneau  sports  fish seat.  They  are  labeled  and                                                               
geographical  identified, but  it's not  definitive. It  would be                                                               
better to have more defining descriptors.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. WINEINGER  added that language  doesn't change the  makeup of                                                               
the board; it just puts it in statute.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS said this language  doesn't preclude a geographical                                                               
connotation,  but gives  some prerequisites  for the  person's or                                                               
his family's background.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI  asked what  the current composition  of the                                                               
board is in terms of sport, subsistence and commercial.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS.  WINEINGER replied  currently the  members come  from diverse                                                               
groups  geographically;  for  instance the  Juneau,  Kodiak,  and                                                               
Sitka seats.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
6:11:00 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  STEVENS  commented that  for  many  years there  was  no                                                               
Kodiak seat and they always wanted one, and it happened in time.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WAGONER  explained  that  now   it  isn't  a  matter  of                                                               
eligibility; it's  a matter  of whether  a member  can deliberate                                                               
and vote on certain items or not.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS  said they would  want to tighten that  language on                                                               
members being precluded from voting  or from being a member. They                                                               
don't want people to continue being conflicted out.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
6:12:37 PM                                                                                                                    
VIRGIL  UMPHENOUR, Chairman,  Fairbanks  Fish  and Game  Advisory                                                               
Committee,  North Pole,  supported  CSSB 284(RES)  version V.  He                                                               
said he  served eight years  on the  Board of Fisheries  and felt                                                               
that  the CS  would  provide  more balance  and  fairness in  the                                                               
board's  composition. The  Yukon River  has serious  conservation                                                               
problems now, basically  because of allocation, he  said, and the                                                               
current board is manipulated by the department.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  STEVENS  asked how  things  broke  down over  the  years                                                               
between commercial, sport and personal use in his experience.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  UMPHENOUR replied  that it  depended on  the issue  and what                                                               
region the  board was in. Some  regions spend more time  on sport                                                               
fish issues than commercial. Subsistence  and personal use take a                                                               
back  seat  a   majority  of  the  time  and   have  very  little                                                               
representation.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
6:17:14 PM                                                                                                                    
MIKE  FENTON, President,  Kenai  Professional Guide  Association,                                                               
Sterling, supported  SB 284. He  said it builds in  the potential                                                               
for  a greater  representation of  the user  groups. The  current                                                               
arrangement allows too much bias to occur.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
ANDY  COUCH, representing  himself, Mat-Su,  said he  is a  sport                                                               
fishing  guide  and a  member  of  the  Matanuska Fish  and  Game                                                               
Advisory Committee;  He supported  SB 284  saying that  the board                                                               
has not  addressed the state's  conservation issues  and changing                                                               
the  makeup  of  the  board  to include  more  user  groups  like                                                               
personal use and subsistence, would help.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
6:20:03 PM                                                                                                                    
WES  HUMBYRD, representing  himself, Homer,  said he  had been  a                                                               
commercial  fisherman in  Cook Inlet  since 1966  and opposed  SB
284. He said  it looks like another way  for commercial fishermen                                                               
to  manage politically  instead of  biologically. If  politicians                                                               
used the  same amount of energy  on removing the problems  in the                                                               
Mat-Su drainage, they wouldn't be here discussing this bill.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
He related  that Mat-Su used to  have 32 lakes with  pike in them                                                               
and now  it's up to 162,  and there are numerous  beavers dams on                                                               
all the  streams in that area  that stop the migration  of salmon                                                               
destined to  the spawning grounds.  Also, he said  the escapement                                                               
counters the department uses are not accurate.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. HUMBYRD  said Cook Inlet  fishermen had not had  a commercial                                                               
fisherman  on the  board since  1975. He  suggested removing  the                                                               
pike and the beavers before  asking everyone to be "curtailed" to                                                               
solve  the problem.  "Don't make  the commercial  fishermen again                                                               
and again  be the  sacrificial lamb for  sport fish  interests in                                                               
the Valley  and the Kenai  area." The  real balance on  the board                                                               
should  be three  sport, three  commercial and  one personal  use                                                               
person.  Maybe a  good  suggestion would  be  to have  commercial                                                               
fishing on pike.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS  asked if he  would support  a buy back  system for                                                               
permits.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. HUMBYRD  answered no;  that just  eliminates people  who have                                                               
been fishing for years.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
6:22:59 PM                                                                                                                    
BOB PENNY, Cook Inlet Sport  Fishing, Soldotna, said he supported                                                               
SB 284.  He said his  first concern was conservation  and second,                                                               
the unfair  allocation for the  harvest of salmon in  Cook Inlet.                                                               
He served  on the  North Pacific Fisheries  Council for  one term                                                               
and  he  learned  that conservation  comes  first.  Whenever  the                                                               
stocks get low, stop fishing, he  exhorted. When that run is gone                                                               
it's gone. He  said the Board of Fisheries didn't  take the steps                                                               
necessary to protect the species and  something has to be done to                                                               
protect those fish.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
6:25:18 PM                                                                                                                    
MIKE TINKER, representing himself,  Fairbanks, said that previous                                                               
fish boards have  come up with the  sustainable salmon management                                                               
policy, for  example. But in the  last five years, the  board has                                                               
been a  disaster for any  non-commercial user. The  members avoid                                                               
their own policies  and disrespect the opinions  of those opposed                                                               
to   commercial  fishery   interests,  especially   the  advisory                                                               
committees. "Definitely  missing is an Alaska  use attitude." The                                                               
board did  the right thing in  the Cook Inlet meeting  by finding                                                               
chum  and  sockeye  as  stocks  of concern,  but  then  they  did                                                               
absolutely  nothing   to  change  the  intercept   fisheries.  He                                                               
supported CSSB 284 version V.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
6:26:44 PM                                                                                                                    
MONTE ROBERTS, sport fish guide  operator, Soldotna, supported SB
284, but he still had some  concerns about the board's makeup. He                                                               
was fine  with the two  designated commercial fishing  seats, but                                                               
the three personal use/subsistence  members concerned him. He was                                                               
concerned  that   in  two  places   people  with   sport  fishing                                                               
experience were  excluded from  holding a seat,  and at  no place                                                               
were they guaranteed a seat at the table.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
6:28:17 PM                                                                                                                    
JOHN  MCCOMBS, drift  gillnet fisherman,  Cook Inlet,  opposed SB
284. He  said the  board has already  failed to  address emerging                                                               
fisheries  in   fully  allocated  limited  entry   fisheries  and                                                               
considerations by gear type aren't going to be the answer.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR GREEN asked him if he  had any recommendations for how to                                                               
distinguish  membership on  the  board  if not  by  gear type  or                                                               
geographic locations.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. MCCOMBS  replied you need  a professional board  with trained                                                               
scientists.  Maybe it  needs to  be  taken out  of the  political                                                               
realm and put in back into the hands of scientists.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
6:30:26 PM                                                                                                                    
BEAVER  NELSON,  representing  himself,   Homer,  said  he  is  a                                                               
commercial,  sport  and  personal  use  fisherman.  He  said  the                                                               
present system has  members with varied interests  and is working                                                               
pretty  well. This  legislation would  turn the  board into  hard                                                               
core members  and would limit  the pool of  qualified candidates.                                                               
He stated,  "It just  narrows things  down into  special interest                                                               
groups again."                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
6:31:06 PM                                                                                                                    
BRUCE KNOWLES,  representing himself, Willow, said  he has served                                                               
on  the Valley  Fish and  Game  Advisory Committee  for about  12                                                               
years  and supported  SB  284.  He said  the  suggestion for  the                                                               
makeup  of the  original  board  was to  have  it all  commercial                                                               
fishermen, but  that didn't go  over, so the  qualifications were                                                               
changed to what they have today.  The only progress the board has                                                               
made was  during the  90s when  it was  made up  of all  the user                                                               
groups and  developed sound management plans  and the sustainable                                                               
salmon policy. Good progress was  made until commercial interests                                                               
took  over the  board  again, "and  now we're  back  in the  dark                                                               
ages."                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
6:32:51 PM                                                                                                                    
RICKY  GEASE,   Executive  Director,  Kenai   River  Sportfishing                                                               
Association, Kenai, said  he didn't have a problem  with the bill                                                               
conceptually.  He  pointed  out  that  some  advisory  committees                                                               
across the  state have gone  towards designated seats;  the Kenai                                                               
Soldotna AC designated three seats  for commercial permits on the                                                               
Kenai River along with hunting  and subsistence seats. He said it                                                               
seemed to be working there.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
He suggested  tightening the  language in SB  284 so  that people                                                               
wouldn't be conflicted out, like  saying just an immediate family                                                               
member couldn't have a commercial  license. He liked a lay board,                                                               
but  thought professionals  should be  integrated into  it for  a                                                               
good mix. Economic expertise is  important and he suggested using                                                               
people  from the  Department of  Commerce,  Community &  Economic                                                               
Development. He  said the commercial  salmon industry  is looking                                                               
at many ways to improve the quality and economics.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
6:35:30 PM                                                                                                                    
DAVID  MARTIN, Chairman,  Central  Peninsula Advisory  Committee,                                                               
Clam  Gulch, said  he  had been  involved in  the  Board of  Fish                                                               
process for  over 25  years and had  commercially fished  in Cook                                                               
Inlet for  36 years. He  opposed SB  284. When some  groups don't                                                               
get what they  want based strictly on allocation,  they cry foul,                                                               
and  that is  what  happened in  the Upper  Cook  Inlet Board  of                                                               
Fisheries  meeting.  Data  shows   that  the  Susitna  sonar  was                                                               
undercounting;  the  actual  count  at the  weirs  verified  that                                                               
sockeye escapement  was being met  and exceeded.  Scientific data                                                               
also showed that the commercial  fisheries has been and continues                                                               
to  be severely  restricted from  catching northern-bound  salmon                                                               
stock  and that  70-90 percent  of the  salmon make  it into  the                                                               
rivers. Any problems  are not in the salt water;  they are in the                                                               
river.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MARTIN said  SB  284  is the  latest  maneuver  to move  the                                                               
Soldotna  ADF&G department  to Anchorage.  It  is an  unfortunate                                                               
knee-jerk  reaction   that  will   only  result   in  undermining                                                               
biological  management, the  Board of  Fisheries process  and the                                                               
department. He said:                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     If  using  reliable   scientific  data  and  biological                                                                    
     management is not the mission  of the Board of Fish, an                                                                    
     increased (indisc.)  to any number of  designated seats                                                                    
     will  not be  in the  best  long term  interest of  the                                                                    
     resource and the  people of Alaska. They  need to learn                                                                    
     from the  mistakes of  the Lower  48 and  keep politics                                                                    
     out  of  fish  and  game  management  and  protect  our                                                                    
     habitat.  Let  the  biologists do  their  job  and  the                                                                    
     legislature  do their  job -  like funding  the Susitna                                                                    
     study  that is  outlined by  the Board  of Fish  Action                                                                    
     Plan  and requested  by the  commissioner  of Fish  and                                                                    
     Game  and  the   Cook  Inlet  Aquaculture  Association.                                                                    
     Restructuring  the  Board  of   Fish  in  the  Soldotna                                                                    
     Department of Fish and Game  will be counter productive                                                                    
     and  more   costly.  Both  measures  will   cause  more                                                                    
     problems  and solve  none.  You  cannot compromise  and                                                                    
     disregard  scientific data  and biological  management.                                                                    
     Commercial fisheries is the number  one employer in the                                                                    
     state....                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
6:38:27 PM                                                                                                                    
HAL HUME, Fairbanks, said this will  be his ninth year serving on                                                               
the  Fairbanks   Advisory  Council,  and  he   has  had  numerous                                                               
opportunities to observe  the actions of the  Board of Fisheries.                                                               
The  board  is  without  a  doubt  extremely  biased  toward  the                                                               
commercial fishing industry by at least  six to one. He said this                                                               
resource belongs to  all of Alaskans and not  just the commercial                                                               
guys,  many  of whom  are  not  even  Alaskans. There  is  strong                                                               
evidence  that King  Salmon  are being  decimated,  he said;  the                                                               
stocks  are diminishing  in quality  and numbers  in the  Gulkana                                                               
River. He  urged them  to do everything  possible to  assure that                                                               
Alaskans are represented on future fish boards.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MARVIN PETERS,  representing himself,  Homer, opposed SB  284. He                                                               
stated that  he is chairman of  the Homer Fish and  Game Advisory                                                               
Committee and  had been  on the  committee for  25 years;  he had                                                               
been involved  with the Board  of Fish  process for most  of that                                                               
time. He felt very confident in  saying that there are no runs in                                                               
the state that  are being killed off by  any existing management.                                                               
Mat-Su might  have some  problems, but  they are  being addressed                                                               
now as that  is starting to get functional counters  and weirs to                                                               
replace  the ones  that  didn't work.  He noticed  a  lot of  the                                                               
comments  today forgot  to include  some valid  weir counts  that                                                               
show  the problem  is really  not as  great as  people have  been                                                               
saying.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR.  PETERS said  he didn't  like the  "do not  hold/do not  own"                                                               
language. It doesn't  require any actual interest  to represent a                                                               
user group and certainly personal  use representatives would have                                                               
to be  drawn from a pool  of people with little  understanding of                                                               
major fisheries in  the state. Having no  special interests means                                                               
they know  less about it  as far as  he was concerned.  He stated                                                               
that the board for the last five  years has been the best that it                                                               
has ever been.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
6:43:53 PM                                                                                                                    
TOM PAYTON, Chairman, Mt. Enlos  Fish and Game Advisory Committee                                                               
and resident  of Squintna,  said he had  served on  the committee                                                               
since 1986.  Squintna is 75 miles  from salt water up  the Yentna                                                               
River  -  in the  heart  of  the  northern district  problem.  He                                                               
supported  SB 284.  When  Squintna submitted  a  proposal to  the                                                               
board to  allow a subsistence  wheel fishery on the  Yentna, they                                                               
were  quickly denied  that opportunity,  although  that area  had                                                               
fish  wheel  history.  He  suspected   that  the  board  resented                                                               
somebody  from  such  a  small   fishery  expecting  to  get  any                                                               
allocation out of the Cook Inlet  stocks and saw that as the main                                                               
problem. Commercial fishermen control  the salmon stocks, and the                                                               
time has come  to change that; this  bill could be the  one to do                                                               
it.                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
6:46:46 PM                                                                                                                    
REUBEN HANKE, Kenai Sportfishing  Association, Kenai, said it has                                                               
been  a   real  struggle   to  get  some   sort  of   sport  fish                                                               
representation on the board. He supported SB 284.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
6:47:47 PM                                                                                                                    
HOWARD DELO,  representing himself, Mat-Su, said  he is currently                                                               
a sitting  member of the Board  of Fisheries and opposed  SB 284.                                                               
It  is substituting  another set  of concerns  for the  ones that                                                               
have already been voiced.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  GREEN  asked what  changes  or  suggestions he  has  and                                                               
indicated he could drop them off at her office.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
6:48:52 PM                                                                                                                    
RON  RAINEY,  representing himself,  Kenai,  said  he is  a  past                                                               
chairman  of the  Kenai  River Sportfishing  and  a personal  use                                                               
fisherman; he  supported SB 284.  He has  been going to  Board of                                                               
Fisheries meetings  for 20 years  and described it as  you choose                                                               
up sides and get your guy  appointed to the board and whoever has                                                               
the  stroke there  wins the  allocation  battle. This  allocation                                                               
battle needs fairness  and needs assigned seats  for user groups.                                                               
He said public  use fishermen have never had a  seat on the board                                                               
and  "they really  took  a  hosing on  this  last  Board of  Fish                                                               
meeting."                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WAGONER asked  him to  define  what kind  of hosing  the                                                               
public use sector took.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. RAINEY  answered that the department  had established windows                                                               
that  allowed a  given time  that someone  from the  Valley could                                                               
come down and  take their public use fishing on  the Kenai River.                                                               
That  was  literally  set  aside  because  now  the  local  ADF&G                                                               
commercial  fish manager  can do  away  with that  window if  his                                                               
escapement  is  at  a  certain point.  Studies  from  his  people                                                               
indicate   that  the   windows  actually   didn't  decrease   the                                                               
commercial catch that much or  increase the escapement that much.                                                               
It would have  been a perfect opportunity for  those personal use                                                               
fishermen  to come  down. The  managers  knew the  fish would  be                                                               
there because the nets were out of the water.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
6:51:32 PM                                                                                                                    
DENNIS   HAMANN,  Chairman,   Mat-Su  Fish   and  Game   Advisory                                                               
Committee, said in  his 10 years on the committee  he spent a lot                                                               
of time participating  in the Board of Fish process  and it seems                                                               
that  it puts  way more  emphasis on  the allocation  rather than                                                               
biological issues that have come  up over the years. He supported                                                               
SB  284   because  he   thought  each   user  group   needs  fair                                                               
representation. Faulty fish counters are  the same ones they have                                                               
been using for 20  years and there is no doubt  that the runs are                                                               
in abysmal shape.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
6:54:00 PM                                                                                                                    
BEN ELLIS, representing himself,  Anchorage, supported SB 284. He                                                               
said he worked  with Governors Hickel and Knowles in  the 90s  on                                                               
Board  of Fisheries  appointments. He  agreed with  Senator Green                                                               
that  even though  the same  problems  won't go  away, this  puts                                                               
diversity  into statute  and provides  for  an educated  balanced                                                               
board.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS  commented that he  has heard from  multiple people                                                               
that of  the governors  that were involved  in the  process, they                                                               
give Governor Knowles relatively high marks.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. ELLIS  responded that  Governor Hickel  set the  precedent of                                                               
putting a  third sport fisherman  on the board.  Governor Knowles                                                               
wanted to reach into all areas  of the state and into the various                                                               
user groups. He felt that  commercial fishermen at that time came                                                               
with  a  very  balanced  mind  that  looked  for  scientific  and                                                               
educated answers.  The board's chairs during  that time reflected                                                               
that.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
6:56:53 PM                                                                                                                    
DAN LEWIS,  representing himself,  Wasilla, supported SB  284. He                                                               
reported the  fish in the  northern Cook Inlet Susitna  River are                                                               
in  a   lot  of  trouble,  and   they  need  to  get   some  fair                                                               
representation on the board so that it's fair to all the users.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
6:58:31 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  STEVENS commented  that  he has  heard several  comments                                                               
about fairness, which  he agreed with. He comes  from a community                                                               
that depends  heavily on the  fishing industry and it  causes him                                                               
some  concerns that  out  of seven  members,  only two  represent                                                               
commercial fishing, the biggest employer in the state. It                                                                       
produces products that go around the world.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS thanked everyone for their comments. He held SB
284 in committee.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
There being no further business to come before the committee,                                                                   
Chair Huggins adjourned the meeting at 6:59:40 PM.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
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