04/12/2006 03:30 PM Senate RESOURCES
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB166 | |
| SB170 | |
| SB278 | |
| Adjourn |
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | SB 166 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | SB 170 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | SB 278 | TELECONFERENCED | |
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
SENATE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE
April 12, 2006
3:38 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Thomas Wagoner, Chair
Senator Ralph Seekins, Vice Chair
Senator Ben Stevens
Senator Fred Dyson
Senator Bert Stedman
Senator Kim Elton
Senator Albert Kookesh
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SENATE BILL NO. 166
"An Act relating to an annual wildlife conservation tag;
relating to bond requirements for vendors of fish and game
licenses, permits, and tags; and providing for an effective
date."
HEARD AND HELD
SENATE BILL NO. 170
"An Act relating to the Department of Fish and Game, the Board
of Fisheries, and the Board of Game; relating to the taking of
big game and to the disposition of a mount, trophy, or part of a
fish or game animal; setting fees for certain trapping licenses
and certain hunting licenses, permits, and tags; setting fees
for the resident combined hunting, trapping, and sport fishing
license and the resident combined hunting and sport fishing
license; relating to the resident small game hunting license;
setting application fees for certain hunting permits and stamps;
establishing a surcharge on hunting, trapping, and sport fishing
licenses; relating to certain hunting, trapping, and sport
fishing licenses, tags, permits, and stamps; relating to the
fish and game fund; relating to violations of fish and game
laws; relating to state management of wildlife; relating to
endangered fish and wildlife; and providing for an effective
date."
HEARD AND HELD
SENATE BILL NO. 278
"An Act creating the Alaska Climate Change Task Force; and
providing for an effective date."
HEARD AND HELD
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: SB 166
SHORT TITLE: WILDLIFE CONSERVATION TAG
SPONSOR(s): SENATOR(s) BUNDE
04/08/05 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
04/08/05 (S) RES, FIN
01/30/06 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
01/30/06 (S) Heard & Held
01/30/06 (S) MINUTE(RES)
02/06/06 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
02/06/06 (S) Heard & Held
02/06/06 (S) MINUTE(RES)
02/13/06 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
02/13/06 (S) Scheduled But Not Heard
04/12/06 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
BILL: SB 170
SHORT TITLE: BD/DEPT OF FISH & GAME POWERS & DUTIES
SPONSOR(s): SENATOR(s) SEEKINS
04/12/05 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
04/12/05 (S) RES, FIN
04/18/05 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
04/18/05 (S) Heard & Held
04/18/05 (S) MINUTE(RES)
04/22/05 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
04/22/05 (S) Heard & Held
04/22/05 (S) MINUTE(RES)
10/10/05 (S) RES AT 6:30 PM NOME
10/11/05 (S) RES AT 6:30 PM Fairbanks
10/12/05 (S) RES AT 6:30 PM Coldfoot
10/14/05 (S) RES AT 2:00 PM Barrow
10/15/05 (S) RES AT 3:00 PM Chugiak
04/12/06 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
BILL: SB 278
SHORT TITLE: ALASKA CLIMATE CHANGE TASK FORCE
SPONSOR(s): SENATOR(s) OLSON
02/13/06 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/13/06 (S) RES, FIN
04/12/06 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
WITNESS REGISTER
McKIE CAMPBELL, Commissioner
Department of Fish & Game
PO Box 25526
Juneau, AK 99802-5226
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 170
SENATOR DONNY OLSON
Alaska State Capitol
Juneau, AK 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of SB 278.
ACTION NARRATIVE
CHAIR THOMAS WAGONER called the Senate Resources Standing
Committee meeting to order at 3:38:13 PM. Present at the call to
order were Senators Bert Stedman, Kim Elton, Albert Kookesh,
Fred Dyson and Chair Thomas Wagoner. Senators Ben Stevens and
Ralph Seekins arrived soon thereafter.
SB 166-WILDLIFE CONSERVATION TAG
CHAIR THOMAS WAGONER announced SB 166 to be up for
consideration. He noted the proposed committee substitute (CS)
and asked for a motion.
SENATOR FRED DYSON moved to adopt the CSSB 166, Version I, as
the working document. There was no objection and it was so
ordered.
3:40:39 PM
SENATOR BEN STEVENS arrived.
CHAIR WAGONER informed members that the sponsor does not support
the CS. However, because of the many questions and problems that
came up during the initial hearing, he decided to have the CS
drafted as a sort of compromise. If the Department of Fish and
Game (ADF&G) elected to do so, it could have collectible pins
designed for sale in gift shops, on cruise ships and other
places in a program similar to the Iditarod or Anchorage Fur
Rendezvous pin programs. He noted that the wood Iditarod pins
sell for $20 in the retail market.
3:41:15 PM
SENATOR RALPH SEEKINS arrived.
3:41:20 PM
SENATOR BERT STEDMAN referenced page 2, line 21, and asked if it
would be mandatory that the department design, produce and make
a pin available for sale even though the sale of the pins may be
optional.
CHAIR WAGONER agreed it is mandated. Although the word "may"
could be inserted, he thought that doing so "kind of backslides"
it. He highlighted the proposed amendment to increase the price
of the pin from $5 to not more than $20 and said he would
entertain a motion.
3:42:53 PM
SENATOR DYSON said he was uncomfortable with the CS because it
hijacked the original bill. He asked if the purpose is the same,
which is to raise money for fish and game.
CHAIR WAGONER replied yes. He acknowledged the sponsor did not
support the CS, but the original bill raised so many questions
he thought this might be a compromise.
3:44:42 PM
SENATOR STEDMAN moved to adopt Amendment 1, by Senator Wagoner.
SENATOR KIM ELTON objected for discussion.
SENATOR ELTON suggested that the amendment would make the
language on page 2, line 25, obsolete and questioned whether
subsection (c) ought to be deleted.
CHAIR WAGONER said he didn't believe it was necessary; it gives
more options. The emphasis of the amendment is to increase the
price of the pins from $5 to not more than $20. The idea behind
subsection (e) is to expand access to the pins to anyone who
sells small collectibles.
3:47:45 PM
SENATOR ELTON again expressed concern with the possible conflict
between the language in subsections (c) and (e). The amendment
language makes it sound as though any Alaska businesses could
sell the pin, but the language in subsection (c) makes it sound
as though only Alaskan businesses that also sell hunting and
fishing licenses could sell the pin.
3:49:16 PM
SENATOR DYSON suggested he place the bill at bottom of the
agenda.
CHAIR WAGONER announced he would put SB 166 aside.
SB 170-BD/DEPT OF FISH & GAME POWERS & DUTIES
CHAIR THOMAS WAGONER announced SB 170 to be up for
consideration. He noted the new draft and asked for a motion.
SENATOR FRED DYSON moved to adopt Version C, Sponsor Substitute
to SB 170, as the working document. There was no objection and
it was so ordered.
3:52:07 PM at ease 3:56:03 PM
SENATOR RALPH SEEKINS, sponsor, recapped the legislative intent
of SSSB 170, which is to increase revenue for the management of
fish and game. Fee and license increases will be adopted in
three stages beginning on January 1, 2007. The second increase
will occur on January 1, 2009 and the third increase will occur
on January 1, 2011.
The increases will bring resident and non-resident alien license
tags and fees in line with other premium hunting destinations
and a new trophy fee schedule for non-resident alien and non-
resident hunters is added, which is also consistent with other
premium hunting destinations.
SENATOR SEEKINS said that AS 16.05.130 provides that revenue
from the sale of hunting and fishing licenses, tags etc must be
allocated such that they directly benefit license purchasers. In
the past the interpretation of "directly benefit" was stretched,
but accountability is better now, he said.
SSSB 170 tightens diversion provisions to ensure that the fish
and game fund monies are only used for programs that enhance the
abundance, productivity, or harvest of fish or game populations
that are important for human consumption. It also requires that
the legislature receive a copy of the annual project report that
is also posted to the ADF&G website.
SSSB 170 clarifies that the commissioner shall manage fish and
game resources to achieve abundance for the use and benefit of
the people of the state consistent with the public interest and
to achieve maximum sustained yield. It further states that non-
game animals shall be managed for the benefit of the people of
the state.
Certain functions of the subsistence section are clarified. Data
will be collected on subsistence use of fish and game resources
and compliance with state fishing, hunting, and trapping license
requirements.
SENATOR SEEKINS explained that SSSB 170 allows the Board of Game
to implement intensive management decisions without additional
survey information. It would allow the use of community advisory
boards made up of local people familiar with the fish and game
populations to provide information demonstrating or confirming a
need for enhancement or control action.
SENATOR SEEKINS outlined bear control methods and means. The
intent is to provide a licensed hunter a higher probability to
harvest a bear in an area where a high bear population is
identified as a reason for depressed ungulate populations.
SSSB 170 adds a new subsection related to the sale of mounts and
trophies. Senator Seekins expressed the view that a regulated
in-state sale process of tagged mounts or trophies is a
reasonable program that would have no threat to the resource
whatsoever.
For resident hunters only - a non-resident may accompany a
resident only in areas of intensive management. The idea is to
put more hunters in the field. The limit is two persons each
year, both must pass the department's hunter safety course, and
the resident cannot receive any monetary benefit from the non-
resident. This option is canceled when the bear population is
back within the population objectives.
The military license fee is for military members and their non-
resident dependents only while stationed in Alaska. Senator
Seekins said the military and others in communities across the
state broadly support this provision.
4:03:53 PM
SENATOR ALBERT KOOKESH asked how he proposed to get hunter
education personnel into rural Alaska to teach the course.
SENATOR SEEKINS replied the course would be available in offices
or on the Internet.
SENATOR KOOKESH commented it seems odd that someone who grew up
hunting and fishing in rural Alaska would now be required to
take the hunter safety course before taking anyone in the field.
SENATOR SEEKINS agreed and elaborated on the purpose, which is
to enlist more knowledgeable people to hunt for bears in an area
that is under intensive management. That is the one interest he
is trying to protect. Although the intention is not to
jeopardize the guide requirement, he suggested that if there
were a court challenge that requirement would survive with
difficulty.
SENATOR STEDMAN commented he completed the hunter safety course
with his 11-year-old daughter. There was considerable hands-on
weapon handling so he wasn't sure how effective an on-line class
would be.
SENATOR SEEKINS acknowledged that is an obstacle, but a number
of approaches could be employed to handle hands-on
demonstrations.
4:09:58 PM
SENATOR ELTON referenced the letter to the president of the
Alaska Professional Hunters Association from Bill Horn with
Birch, Horton, Bittner and Cherot, and asked him to respond to
the conclusion. It says:
To preserve the constitutionality of Alaska's guide
requirement for non-resident hunters, we would
strongly counsel against authorizing any exception to
the guide requirement or a scheme in which special
residents act as de facto guides in a non-commercial
or quasi-commercial manner.
SENATOR SEEKINS disagreed that there is a constitutional issue.
It is a statutory issue unless there could be a challenge based
on the commerce clause. He reemphasized he is not trying to
challenge the guide requirement, but the alternative is to do
nothing and that isn't acceptable.
4:14:42 PM
SENATOR STEDMAN said the assistant guides that he knows have
become experienced before taking anyone out brown bear hunting.
His perspective in Southeast is that he would be very cautious
around a weekend hunter who was hunting brown bear.
4:16:14 PM
SENATOR SEEKINS said first, he didn't think the areas in
Southeast would be under intensive management for bear control
and second, anyone who doesn't know what they're doing ought to
have a guide. The point is that there is a problem that needs to
be addressed. This is one approach to controlling bear
populations in areas where they are having an adverse effect on
the prey populations.
4:17:40 PM
SENATOR STEDMAN mentioned the increased cost for licenses and
commented he was surprised to see how few licenses are sold in
Western Alaska. He asked if there would be a mechanism to ensure
that more people buy proper licenses and tags.
4:18:41 PM
SENATOR SEEKINS responded he learned about the disparity between
the number of hunters and number of licenses sold a long time
ago. The fee schedule is open for discussion but an increase is
clearly needed.
4:20:43 PM
SENATOR STEDMAN asked what a resident would pay for a bear tag
and hunting license.
SENATOR SEEKINS replied in certain areas the tags are given
away.
SENATOR STEDMAN said he gets a brown bear tag every year so he
wouldn't have to give up the bear in the event he was forced to
shoot one.
SENATOR SEEKINS said a tag isn't required in the area he hunts
and he's allowed one bear a year.
4:22:54 PM
SENATOR STEDMAN noted that the bill redirects fish and game
expenditures somewhat and he questioned whether it wouldn't be
better to leave that up to a finance subcommittee or the
budgeting process.
4:23:27 PM
SENATOR SEEKINS replied, historically the money that goes into
the allowable and designated fish and game fund has been used at
the department's discretion. The sideboards are that the funds
are for the direct benefit of hunters and fishers and an annual
report is prepared to show how the funds were spent. Although
there were difficulties with that process in the past, he
prefers that approach. If abuse occurs in the future perhaps the
subcommittee process would be appropriate; at this point he
wouldn't suggest it.
4:27:01 PM
SENATOR STEDMAN referenced page 21, line 12 and asked about the
fee or license surcharge that would be used to acquire
easements, rights-of-way, and land to provide access to hunters
and fishers.
4:28:05 PM
SENATOR SEEKINS responded there are times when it is important
for the state to be able to acquire land for public access to
navigable streams, waters and state owned land. To do that it's
important that owners are paid fair market value for the access.
This creates a fund to accommodate that, but it mandates
nothing.
4:28:49 PM at ease 4:29:42 PM
McKIE CAMPBELL, Commissioner, Department of Fish and Game,
described the bill as large and complex and the department's
response is equally complex. ADF&G has no objection to some
parts; it agrees with the intent - not the language - of some
parts; it believes some parts may have counter effects to the
intended cure; and it strongly disagrees with some parts.
4:32:15 PM
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL thanked the sponsor for including a
license increase and for highlighting the issue. When inflation
is taken into account an Alaska hunting and fishing license
costs less than half what it did at Statehood. However, he
believes that the fee schedule contained in the original bill is
more appropriate than the proposal in the committee substitute.
With regard to accountability he said the department owes it to
the legislature and those who purchase fishing and hunting
licenses to be totally accountable and transparent about how the
monies are spent. When Senator Seekins informed him of the
statutory requirement for an accounting, he quickly posted a
report to the department website. This year an updated summary
was published and detailed spreadsheets were furnished to the
Finance Committee and other interested legislators.
With regard to the question about a definition for "project," he
assured members that the response to the question is not an
accurate reflection of departmental policy. The definition in
the bill is reasonable but, he emphasized, with or without it
the department will continue to give a fully transparent
accounting of the amount and way that fish and game fund money
is spent.
4:35:15 PM
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL said he has a number of concerns with the
bill but the main issue is on page 3, Section 4, subsection (c),
which says:
Notwithstanding other provisions of law, plan,
strategy, agreement, guideline, or similar document
that establishes or affects a policy for the
management of fish, game or aquatic resources that is
prepared by the department shall be submitted to the
Board of Fisheries, the Board of Game, or both, as
appropriate, for the board's approval before the
department implements the policy.
Currently the department makes policy, plans, strategies,
agreements, and guidelines every single day so that requirement
is very problematic for two reasons. First it would likely
require a fulltime board, but the fiscal note assumed that the
current volunteer board would suffice. Second, any action that
didn't go through the board would open the department to legal
challenge. He understands the motivation, but he'd like to
continue working with the sponsor.
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL said he is also concerned about limiting
the transfer of money between projects, but there again he
understands the motivation.
4:39:20 PM
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL expressed agreement with much that was in
the PowerPoint but the devil is in the details as far the
language is concerned. For example the department supports the
provision about selling trophies, but would adamantly oppose
anything that would encourage poaching for the sale of game meat
or parts.
4:40:24 PM
SENATOR ELTON asked if the Department of Law (DOL) provided
guidance so that ADF&G attorneys could address the implications
of the different sections in the bill.
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL said yes and based on that advice they
prepared a sectional analysis. They provided that information to
Senator Seekins last year and no one else. He said he did not
have a revised sectional reflecting the new CS.
SENATOR ELTON commented that the committee would need to review
the DOL document before making a decision.
CHAIR WAGONER asked Commissioner Campbell to provide the
committee with a revised sectional.
4:43:29 PM
SENATOR DYSON recapped what the sponsor was trying to do and
asked if there was a better way.
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL replied the bill is complex and it does
many things so the department would like to continue to work
with the sponsor to offer opportunities and language to reduce
the chance for unintended consequences.
4:45:27 PM
SENATOR STEDMAN observed that the bill is very complex and he
would hold his questions until the updated sectional was
available.
4:45:57 PM
SENATOR SEEKINS commented subsection (c) on page 3 was
precipitated because there are agreements that affect management
policy in the state that neither the Board of Game nor the
legislature knows about on a formal basis. He used the State
Wildlife Grant Project as an example and said the question in
that instance was whether the document committed particular
management processes and actions without any there having been
any external review. SSSB 170 just asks for the light of day so
that the people who are charged with that fiduciary management
responsibility are actually involved.
4:48:00 PM
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL highlighted his concern using the halibut
charter issue. At a recent North Pacific Management Council
meeting the issue of whether or not skippers and crew should be
able to retain fish was hotly contested. On behalf of the State
of Alaska he made the policy decision to enforce no retention
for skippers and crew in Southeast and to watch Southcentral
closely. As such he was able to realize a goal that the sponsor
also supported. Without the ability to make the policy call, the
goal would not have been realized for at least another 30 days.
He reiterated his commitment to transparency and full
disclosure.
4:50:43 PM
SENATOR ELTON asked what would have happened if the language in
subsection (c) had been law 6 months ago when there was a
challenge to the predator control program that was based on
procedural issues. He suggested the language creates questions
that could potentially affect the predator control policy.
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL replied it's not the intent but he is very
concerned that the section could be used to attack any
department action that didn't have board blessing. Whether or
not it would have affected the predator control policy he
couldn't say, but Section 15(e)(1) on page 9 certainly could
have an affect. It contains language about consumptive use of
the big game prey population as a preferred use. The new
language is problematic because there are dramatically different
conclusions from who is a reliable, reasonable or knowledgeable
person. He suggested that with that language the department
would be in court all the time even though that is not the
intent.
CHAIR WAGONER announced he would hold SB 170.
SB 278-ALASKA CLIMATE CHANGE TASK FORCE
CHAIR WAGONER announced SB 278 to be up for consideration.
4:55:52 PM
SENATOR OLSON, sponsor of SB 278, read the sponsor statement
into the record.
I introduced SB 278 to address the real implications
that climate warming has for Alaska's economic and
domestic well being. Climate change discussions
usually center on the question of whether the
measurable gradual warming we are currently
experiencing is a natural cyclic change or the onset
of some humanity induced environmental catastrophe. To
many Alaskans, the reality of the warming situation is
of direct and immediate concern that overshadows the
global debate over causes and appropriate macro-
solutions. What matters is that our region of the
world is experiencing detrimental effects of the
warming trend today and prospects for even the near
future may be more damaging.
For these reasons, I think it is important for the
state to take a hard and honest look at what can be
expected if warming temperatures continue. What are
the implications for the social and economic health of
our citizens, communities, and industries? Right now
there are too many unanswered questions. What effect
will this have on our forests, fish and game
resources, river and shore line erosion? What does it
mean for permafrost stability in areas of our homes,
our community facilities, our roads and airports, our
pipeline? How will it affect new development
opportunities in Arctic and sub Arctic Alaska?
SB 278 creates an Alaska Climate Change Task Force to
review and analyze warming impacts on Alaska and its
citizens. This task force will be made up of thirteen
individuals from diverse backgrounds. Five will have
some expertise in Arctic climatology, geology,
engineering, ecology or other appropriate discipline.
There are four representatives of state agencies that
have key responsibilities for the state's resources
and transportation infrastructure.
The task force is charged with the following:
· Assess current and potential aspects of climate
warming on the citizens, natural resources, and
economy,
· Estimate the costs to the state and its citizens
caused by climate warming, and
· Make recommendations to address the near and
long-term effects of climate change on Alaska.
Climate change is one of the most important challenges
to our way of life. This legislation is an important
first step in preparing the state for the impacts.
4:57:56 PM
SENATOR STEDMAN asked why the university wouldn't work in
conjunction with the task force and what the task force would do
with the information.
SENATOR OLSON replied the task force is charged with determining
whether there is a legitimate concern and then making
recommendations. He noted that he had amendments for the
committee to consider.
CHAIR WAGONER asked him to give the amendments to Ms. Jackson
and announced he would hold SB 278 for further consideration.
CHAIR WAGONER adjourned the meeting at 4:59:40 PM.
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