03/07/2005 03:30 PM Senate RESOURCES
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB103 | |
| SB110 | |
| HB76 | |
| Adjourn |
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| = | SB 103 | ||
| = | SB 110 | ||
| + | HB 76 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | HCR 2 | TELECONFERENCED | |
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
SENATE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE
March 7, 2005
3:37 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Thomas Wagoner, Chair
Senator Ralph Seekins, Vice Chair
Senator Ben Stevens
Senator Fred Dyson
Senator Bert Stedman
Senator Kim Elton
Senator Gretchen Guess
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SENATE BILL NO. 103
"An Act relating to regulation of underground injection under
the federal Safe Drinking Water Act; and providing for an
effective date."
MOVED SB 103 OUT OF COMMITTEE
SENATE BILL NO. 110
"An Act relating to regulation of the discharge of pollutants
under the National Pollutant Discharge Elimination System; and
providing for an effective date."
MOVED SB 110 OUT OF COMMITTEE
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 76(FIN) am
"An Act relating to the Big Game Commercial Services Board and
to the regulation of big game hunting services and
transportation services; and providing for an effective date."
MOVED CSHB 76(FIN) am OUT OF COMMITTEE
HOUSE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 2
Urging Governor Murkowski to take quick action to conduct,
approve, or sanction a study of in-state natural gas needs and
take-off points for intrastate use of natural gas transported in
a North Slope natural gas pipeline.
MOVED HCR 2 OUT OF COMMITTEE
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: SB 103
SHORT TITLE: OIL & GAS: REG. OF UNDERGROUND INJECTION
SPONSOR(s): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR
02/14/05 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/14/05 (S) RES, FIN
02/28/05 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
02/28/05 (S) Heard & Held
02/28/05 (S) MINUTE(RES)
03/07/05 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
BILL: SB 110
SHORT TITLE: POLLUTION DISCHARGE & WASTE TRMT/DISPOSAL
SPONSOR(s): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR
02/16/05 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/16/05 (S) RES, FIN
03/02/05 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
03/02/05 (S) Heard & Held
03/02/05 (S) MINUTE(RES)
03/07/05 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
BILL: HB 76
SHORT TITLE: BIG GAME SERVICES & COMM. SERVICES BD
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) SAMUELS
01/18/05 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
01/18/05 (H) RES, FIN
02/02/05 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
02/02/05 (H) Moved Out of Committee
02/02/05 (H) MINUTE(RES)
02/04/05 (H) RES RPT 8DP
02/04/05 (H) DP: GATTO, KAPSNER, OLSON, ELKINS,
SEATON, LEDOUX, RAMRAS, SAMUELS
02/09/05 (H) FIN AT 1:30 PM HOUSE FINANCE 519
02/09/05 (H) Heard & Held
02/09/05 (H) MINUTE(FIN)
02/10/05 (H) FIN AT 1:30 PM HOUSE FINANCE 519
02/10/05 (H) Moved CSHB 76(FIN) Out of Committee
02/10/05 (H) MINUTE(FIN)
02/11/05 (H) FIN RPT CS(FIN) 3DP 5NR
02/11/05 (H) DP: HOLM, WEYHRAUCH, JOULE;
02/11/05 (H) NR: STOLTZE, HAWKER, MOSES, KELLY,
MEYER
03/02/05 (H) TRANSMITTED TO (S)
03/02/05 (H) VERSION: CSHB 76(FIN) AM
03/03/05 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
03/03/05 (S) RES, FIN
03/07/05 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
BILL: HCR 2
SHORT TITLE: IN-STATE NATURAL GAS NEEDS
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) SAMUELS
02/18/05 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/18/05 (H) RES
02/23/05 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
02/23/05 (H) Moved Out of Committee
02/23/05 (H) MINUTE(RES)
02/24/05 (H) RES RPT 7DP
02/24/05 (H) DP: OLSON, KAPSNER, SEATON, ELKINS,
LEDOUX, RAMRAS, SAMUELS
02/25/05 (H) TRANSMITTED TO (S)
02/25/05 (H) VERSION: HCR 2
02/28/05 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/28/05 (S) RES, FIN
03/07/05 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
WITNESS REGISTER
DAN EASTON, Director
Division of Water
Department of Environmental Conservation
410 Willoughby
Juneau, AK 99801-1795
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 110.
CAM LEONARD
PO Box 110300
Juneau, AK 99811-0300
Department of Law
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions about SB 110.
MATT ROBUS, Director
Division of Wildlife Conservation
Department of Fish & Game
PO Box 25526
Juneau, AK 99802-5226
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 76.
PAUL JOHNSON, Registered Guide
Elfin Cove AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 76.
RICK THOMPSON, Regional Manager
Division of Mining, Land and Water
Department of Natural Resources
400 Willoughby Ave.
Juneau, AK 99801-1724
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 76.
REPRESENTATIVE RALPH SAMUELS
Alaska State Capitol
Juneau, AK 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of HB 76 HCR 2.
HAROLD HEINZE, CEO
Alaska Natural Gas Development Authority (ANGDA)
Anchorage AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HCR 2.
ACTION NARRATIVE
CHAIR THOMAS WAGONER called the Senate Resources Standing
Committee meeting to order at 3:37:01 PM. Present were Senators
Stedman, Elton, Dyson, Ben Stevens, Seekins and Chair Wagoner.
Senator Guess arrived at 3:38.
SB 103-OIL & GAS: REG. OF UNDERGROUND INJECTION
CHAIR THOMAS WAGONER announced SB 103 to be up for
consideration. In the last meeting there was a question about
class 1 wells and a letter of intent was prepared that would
accompany the bill.
SENATOR RALPH SEEKINS moved to attach the draft letter of intent
to SB 103.
SENATOR ELTON objected briefly to find the letter in his packet.
3:38:45 PM
SENATOR GUESS joined the committee.
CHAIR WAGONER announced there were no further objections and the
letter of intent was adopted.
SENATOR SEEKINS moved to pass SB 103 with attached letter of
intent from committee with individual recommendations, and
attached fiscal notes. There were no objections and it was so
ordered.
3:39:53 PM At Ease 3:42:02 PM
SB 110-POLLUTION DISCHARGE & WASTE TRMT/DISPOSAL
CHAIR THOMAS WAGONER announced SB 110 to be up for
consideration. Additional information was requested at the last
meeting and it has been received. He personally had reservations
when it costs the state $1.2 million to take over a federal
program because it saves a little time.
3:43:12 PM
SENATOR ELTON agreed with him about the financial liability and
recalled that the Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC)
recently eliminated the Hazardous Waste Program for communities
in Southeast Alaska that cost only $20,000 and involved one
employee for 30 hours. That is just a small fraction of the
fiscal note for SB 110 with the addition of 13 full-time
employees. He has heartburn with a decision that leads to the
elimination of a $20,000 program that served communities well -r
that they protested against eliminating - and then incurring a
liability of $1.2 million on the NPDES.
The other part of the bill he didn't like was on page 5, lines
12 - 14. The implication is that after the public hearing
process, state staff can still discuss permit issues with the
applicant. This would assume the staff and permit applicant can
make changes and not have to go back to a public process. When
he asked DEC about it, he didn't get an answer. But when he
asked if the public hearing process envisioned in this bill
would contribute to saving time, the answer was no.
He wanted to know whether or not DEC envisioned that conditions
of a permit can be changed subsequent to a public hearing
without going back to another public hearing - so the public
knows what those changes were.
DAN EASTON, Director, Division of Water, Department of
Environmental Conservation (DEC), replied yes to his question
about not having to go back to public notice after certain
limited changes are made. After the public comment period has
closed, he would post the permit on the web and provide copies
of the proposed final to the applicant and to others that
commented on the draft permit as well as to the EPA. "So, it's
not exclusively to the applicant, but it's to a restricted
group."
3:47:13 PM
SENATOR ELTON asked if there is a precedent in his department.
MR. EASTON replied no.
SENATOR SEEKINS asked Senator Elton if he didn't think final
terms should be worked out at the end.
SENATOR ELTON responded:
No.... What this appears to me is it appears to give
the permit applicant special access to the process
after the public hearing process. It notes only that
the person who applies for a permit under the program
has the opportunity to review the final permit. It
doesn't say permit applicant, public or other parties
who may or may not have testified.
3:52:29 PM
SENATOR GUESS, in reference to lines 12 through 14, asked if
changes are made, would those be put back on the web so people
can see the changes to the final permit.
MR. EASTON replied that it would depend on the nature of the
changes. Substantial changes now have to go back to public
notice. This provision in the bill is intended to address errors
and omissions. He explained that that situation happened
recently and the only remedy for the mistake was a full-blown
modification to the permit.
SENATOR GUESS asked if the intent is to open public comment
again for substantial changes.
MR. EASTON replied yes, that standard doesn't change.
SENATOR ELTON said that other people beside the permit applicant
might have an interest, like a neighborhood. It seems strange
that the federal government, other states and even our state's
other departments don't do this and he asked how are other
permit errors are dealt with. "Do you go back and start the
process over again? It seems to me that this could be
superfluous."
3:54:54 PM
CHAIR WAGONER summarized that he heard Mr. Easton say that they
could meet to correct minor errors and omissions. For anything
major, the department has a public hearing process.
MR. EASTON agreed that was right.
SENATOR ELTON asked what provision of law requires the
department to go back to the public process.
CAM LEONARD, Assistant Attorney General, Department of Law,
answered that case law has been developed in court, both state
and federal, although, "It's not as bright a line as some of us
might wish." Basically, if the changes made to a draft permit
are the logical outgrowth of what was originally proposed, the
department doesn't have to go out to a public notice. But, if
it's something unforeseen, the law requires a second round of
public notice. It's a test that is in case law, not in statute.
SENATOR SEEKINS moved to pass SB 110 from committee with
individual recommendations and attached fiscal notes.
SENATOR ELTON objected and suggested somewhere through the
committee process adding language on line 12 that says:
A person who applies for a permit under the program or
an interested party who participated in the public
hearing sessions has an opportunity to review the
final draft permit prior to it being issued.
That expands the number of interested parties who have the post-
public hearing opportunity. He didn't expect an answer now, but
asked for one before the bill gets to the floor and removed his
objection. There being no further objections, SB 110 moved from
committee.
3:58:36 PM At ease 3:59:53 PM
CSHB 76(FIN)AM-BIG GAME SERVICES & COMM. SERVICES BD
CHAIR THOMAS WAGONER announced CSHB 76(FIN)AM to be up for
consideration.
REPRESENTATIVE RALPH SAMUELS, sponsor, said it reestablishes the
Big Game Commercial Services Board. The former board sunsetted
in the early 90s and its duties were transferred to the Division
of Occupational Licensing.
A Legislative Budget and Audit report recommended that the board
be reestablished for consumer protection and to set ethical
standards for guides. This is supported by the Board of Game and
Department of Fish & Game (ADF&G) and various user groups.
REPRESENTATIVE SAMUELS reviewed the changes from last year's
bill that didn't pass.
4:01:45 PM
Board membership went from two guides, two transporters, one
member appointed by the Board of Game, one private land holder
and one public member to two guides, two transporters, one Board
of Game appointee, two private land holders and two public
members. The thinking behind that is there is inherent conflict
between the transporters and the guides. The second change
requires the board to issue a license to someone who meets the
standards. Also, the original bill had a $1,000 fine in the
previous 12 months would have precluded someone from receiving
or renewing a guide or transport license and that was increased
to $2,000 - with the support of the Department of Public Safety
(DPS).
4:03:13 PM
SENATOR GUESS asked if this was the same membership as the
previous group that was sunsetted.
4:03:44 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SAMUELS replied that he didn't know, but the old
board had the perception that it was a bit of a good old boys
club. "If you knew somebody, you got certain privileges."
4:04:28 PM
SENATOR GUESS said she didn't see wildlife biologists in the
board and asked if they would come under public members.
REPRESENTATIVE SAMUELS replied the Board of Game would appoint
one member and that might be a biologist or a professional game
manager.
4:05:09 PM
SENATOR SEEKINS asked the definition of private landholder.
REPRESENTATIVE SAMUELS replied that probably means Native
Corporations with large tracts of land.
SENATOR STEDMAN said he thought it included all private
landholders.
REPRESENTATIVE SAMUELS replied that it does.
CHAIR WAGONER asked Mr. Robus if he could answer Senator Guess'
question.
4:06:59 PM
MATT ROBUS, Director, Division of Wildlife Conservation, replied
that even thought wildlife biologists are talked about as
advocating for the reinstitution of the board, they are not
actually included in the specification of who gets to sit on the
board.
4:07:45 PM
SENATOR GUESS responded that she wanted to know how this board
is different in its membership from the old one that sunsetted.
4:07:56 PM
MR. ROBUS replied that it's not much different. One of the
reasons he and the Board of Game are advocating for
reinstituting the Commercial Services Board is because it's a
complement to the biological work that the Board of Game does
with input from ADF&G. Without it, the component of wildlife
management that has to do with people management presented
problems that the board doesn't have the tools to solve. It
provides a needed function. Problems came up that couldn't be
addressed by altering bag limits and seasons et cetera. The
department and Board of Game both supported HB 76.
PAUL JOHNSON, Elfin Cove guide, supported HB 76. He said lots of
things are falling through the cracks without the old board. To
Senator Guess' question he said the prior board had nine members
- two guides, two transporters, two public members, one
commercial user, one private landholder and one Board of Game
member. The board did not take up biological issues and the
Board of Game member was a great liaison between the two boards.
4:11:23 PM
SENATOR SEEKINS asked how long he had been guiding.
MR. JOHNSON replied 30 years.
SENATOR SEEKINS asked when exclusive guides areas went away.
MR. JOHNSON replied that they went away in 1991 with the
Owsichek decision.
SENATOR SEEKINS asked if there are de facto reserved guide areas
in effect by landowners who have contracted exclusively with
certain guides.
MR. JOHNSON replied yes. He said there are large tracts of prime
federal lands that the National Park System, US Fish and
Wildlife and US Forest Service have contracted through a
concession process. Prior to Owsichek, once you had a use area,
you had it forever. That's why they called it the good old boys
club. A task force put together that eliminated the old guide
board and created the Commercial Services Board, but in the
middle of that process the Owsichek decision came down. The feds
hoped the state would pick up the ball as they have done on
their lands.
SENATOR SEEKINS asked from a guide's perspective, if there could
be some ethical concerns between private landowners who contract
with exclusive guides. He asked if he saw any conflict of
interest there.
MR. JOHNSON replied he was the chair of the former board and the
private landholders were more concerned with how they were going
to get their companies involved with their local people and with
just two guide members on the board he didn't foresee that being
a problem. However, he could see major benefits to the state as
a whole in getting those private landholders into commercial
utilization of the game if they choose.
I think the more they learn about the industry, the
more they may so choose. It's been a very effective
process in Canada, in Africa and obviously our state
is competing with those other countries.
4:15:29 PM
RICK THOMPSON, Regional Manager, Division of Mining, Land and
Water, Department of Natural Resources (DNR), supported HB 76.
4:16:13 PM
SENATOR BEN STEVENS moved CSHB 76(FIN)AM with individual
recommendations and attached fiscal note. There were no
objections and it was so ordered.
4:16:53 PM At ease 4:17:55 PM
HCR 2-IN-STATE NATURAL GAS NEEDS
CHAIR WAGONER announced HCR 2 to be up for consideration.
REPRESENTATIVE RALPH SAMUELS said this resolution simply urges
the Governor to move quickly on the gas needs study that must be
done before an open season can happen.
SENATOR SEEKINS moved to pass HCR 2 from committee with
individual recommendations and attached zero fiscal note. There
were no objections and it was so ordered.
REPRESENTATIVE SAMUELS said he welcomed cross sponsors.
HB 76-BIG GAME SERVICES & COMM. SERVICES BD
SENATOR DYSON declared that he may have a conflict of interest
with HB 76.
HCR 2-IN-STATE NATURAL GAS NEEDS
HAROLD HEINZE, CEO, Alaska Natural Gas Development Authority
(ANGDA), supported HCR 2. He thought it was important for the
state to continue the momentum that had been started through the
first hearing process.
There were no questions and there was no further business to
come before the committee and CHAIR WAGONER adjourned the
meeting at 4:23:02 PM.
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