04/16/2004 03:36 PM Senate RES
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ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
SENATE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE
April 16, 2004
3:36 p.m.
TAPE(S) 04-40
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Scott Ogan, Chair
Senator Thomas Wagoner, Vice Chair
Senator Fred Dyson
Senator Ralph Seekins
Senator Ben Stevens
MEMBERS ABSENT
Senator Kim Elton
Senator Georgianna Lincoln
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
CONFIRMATION HEARING:
Board of Fisheries
Mr. Robert Heyano - Dillingham
Mr. Art Nelson - Anchorage
SENATE BILL NO. 297
"An Act relating to the taking of black bear, brown bear, and
grizzly bear and to registration of big game guides for certain
guide use areas."
HEARD AND HELD
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 409(FSH)
"An Act relating to the maximum length of salmon seine vessels;
and providing for an effective date."
HEARD AND HELD
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: SB 297
SHORT TITLE: BEAR HUNTING/DISPOSAL OF HIDE/SKULL
SPONSOR(s): SENATOR(s) SEEKINS
02/06/04 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/06/04 (S) RES, FIN
03/17/04 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
03/17/04 (S) Heard & Held
03/17/04 (S) MINUTE(RES)
04/02/04 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
04/02/04 (S) Heard & Held
04/02/04 (S) MINUTE(RES)
04/07/04 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
04/07/04 (S) -- Rescheduled to 4 pm 04/07/04 --
04/14/04 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
04/14/04 (S) Heard & Held
04/14/04 (S) MINUTE(RES)
04/16/04 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
BILL: HB 409
SHORT TITLE: SEINE VESSEL LENGTH
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) WILLIAMS BY REQUEST OF SALMON
INDUSTRY TASK FORCE
01/28/04 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
01/28/04 (H) FSH, RES
02/09/04 (H) FSH AT 9:00 AM CAPITOL 124
02/09/04 (H) Heard & Held
02/09/04 (H) MINUTE(FSH)
02/16/04 (H) FSH AT 9:00 AM CAPITOL 124
02/16/04 (H) Moved CSHB 409(FSH) Out of Committee
02/16/04 (H) MINUTE(FSH)
02/18/04 (H) FSH RPT CS(FSH) 3DP 4NR
02/18/04 (H) DP: WILSON, HEINZE, GUTTENBERG;
02/18/04 (H) NR: GARA, OGG, SAMUELS, SEATON
02/18/04 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
02/18/04 (H) Moved CSHB 409(FSH) Out of Committee
02/18/04 (H) MINUTE(RES)
02/19/04 (H) RES RPT CS(FSH) 5DP 1DNP 2NR
02/19/04 (H) DP: STEPOVICH, HEINZE, KERTTULA,
02/19/04 (H) GUTTENBERG, MASEK; DNP: WOLF;
02/19/04 (H) NR: LYNN, GATTO
02/26/04 (H) TRANSMITTED TO (S)
02/26/04 (H) VERSION: CSHB 409(FSH)
02/27/04 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/27/04 (S) L&C, RES
03/11/04 (S) L&C AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 211
03/11/04 (S) <Above Bill Hearing Postponed>
03/23/04 (S) L&C AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 211
03/23/04 (S) Heard & Held
03/23/04 (S) MINUTE(L&C)
03/30/04 (S) L&C AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 211
03/30/04 (S) Moved CSHB 409(FSH) Out of Committee
03/30/04 (S) MINUTE(L&C)
03/31/04 (S) L&C RPT 1DP 3NR
03/31/04 (S) NR: BUNDE, STEVENS G, FRENCH;
03/31/04 (S) DP: DAVIS
04/14/04 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
WITNESS REGISTER
Mr. Robert Heyano and Mr. Art Nelson, nominees to the Board of
Fisheries
Mr. Ron Rainey
Kenai River Sportfishing Association, Inc.
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports Robert Heyano and Art Nelson for
Board of Fisheries.
Mr. Steve McClure, President
Kenai River Professional Guides Association
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports Robert Heyano and Art Nelson for
Board of Fisheries.
Mr. Joe Hanes
Soldotna AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports Art Nelson for Board of Fisheries.
Ms. Rondi McClure
Soldotna AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports Mr. Nelson for Board of Fisheries.
Mr. Ed Dersham, Chairman
Alaska Board of Fisheries
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports both Mr. Nelson and Mr. Heyano for
the Board of Fisheries.
Mr. John Jensen, Member
Board of Fisheries
Petersburg AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports Mr. Nelson and Mr. Heyano of Board
of Fisheries.
Mr. Tim Barry
Staff to Representative Bill Williams
Alaska State Capitol
Juneau, AK 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on HB 409 for the sponsor.
Mr. Matt Robus, Director
Division of Wildlife Conservation
Department of Fish & Game
PO Box 25526
Juneau, AK 99802-5226
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 297.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 04-40, SIDE A
CHAIR SCOTT OGAN called the Senate Resources Standing Committee
meeting to order at 3:36 p.m. Present were Senators Thomas
Wagoner, Ben Stevens, Fred Dyson, Ralph Seekins and Chair Scott
Ogan. Senators Georgianna Lincoln and Kim Elton were excused. He
announced that confirmation hearings for the Board of Fisheries
would be the first order of business.
^CONFIRMATION HEARING
^BOARD OF FISHERIES
CHAIR OGAN said that he would hear first from Robert Heyano and
asked him why he wanted to serve.
MR. ROBERT HEYANO, Dillingham, said he had been on the Fisheries
Advisory Committee for 20 years and served as chair for 10 years
and currently has a sport fish camp on the Nushigak River. He
felt this is an opportunity for him to be part of the process.
CHAIR OGAN noted that there were no questions and said that the
biggest area of contention on the Board of Fisheries is
allocation of the resources and that Mr. Heyano had both sport
and commercial use experience. However, he noted that Mr. Heyano
is also on the Federal Subsistence Bristol Bay Rural Advisory
Council and asked if he would have to resign from that if his
appointment to the board was confirmed.
MR. HEYANO said he didn't know and would have to check on that.
SENATOR THOMAS WAGONER commented that belonging to an advisory
council would be okay.
CHAIR OGAN asked Mr. Art Nelson to comment on his appointment.
MR. ART NELSON, Board of Fisheries, said since he was appointed
earlier last year he has enjoyed serving. He liked having the
opportunity of going around the state area by area and learning
the ins and outs of all the fisheries.
SENATOR WAGONER said HB 409 would give the board the discretion
to change the length of seine vessels from 58 ft. and asked what
he thought about that.
MR. NELSON replied that it is up to the Legislature to decide
what kind of authority it wants to give to the Board of
Fisheries. But, he thought it would be a good item to loosen the
statutory reins on.
We might want to look at it on an area-by-area
basis.... With the situation in the fisheries now, the
vessel size limit is one of the most commonly cited
things that is limiting people's efficiency and their
ability to take care of fish by putting in RSW systems
or freezing onboard. I would support that.
SENATOR SEEKINS asked Mr. Nelson where he fit in terms of being
an adjunct of the administration or the legislature.
MR. NELSON replied that he brings his own experiences to the
Board of Fisheries and doesn't think in terms of aligning with
either one.
SENATOR SEEKINS clarified his question further saying that he
wanted to know if he thought the board was under either
administrative or legislative authority.
MR. NELSON replied that obviously the board has to operate
within constitutional and statutory authority that is awarded to
it.
CHAIR OGAN noted there were no further questions and said the
committee wouldn't make a recommendation for or against the
nominees, but would forward their names to a joint session for
consideration.
MR. RON RAINEY, Kenai River Sportfishing Association, Inc.
supported Robert Heyano, because he is a commercial and sport
fisherman and is a subsistence user. He represents a broad range
of user groups and could be fair. He has observed Mr. Nelson at
several meetings and he has appeared to be fair also.
Mr. Steve McClure, President, Kenai River Professional Guides
Association (KRPGA), said:
First, let me say that the KRPGA has nothing but
respect and admiration for the effort, work and time
Art Nelson has given to the Board of Fish. Although at
times we have been on different sides on various
issues, we have found him to be extremely fair,
unbiased and above all professional in his actions
before the Board of Fish....
Second, although we have had no dealing with Mr.
Heyano, we feel it is vital to the makeup of the Board
of Fish that we have some representation from the
Bristol Bay region and in Kenai, we have heard nothing
but good.... KRPGA would like to say that we also
support Mr. Heyano for confirmation to the board.
MR. REUBEN HANKE, Kenai, said he owns and operates a
sportfishing guide business on the Kenai River and supported
both Mr. Nelson and Mr. Heyano.
MR. JOE HANES said he is a board member of the KRPGA and a newly
appointed member of the KRISMA working group on guiding issues
on the Kenai. He endorsed Mr. Nelson's appointment saying that
he had found him to be innovative and extremely fair.
MS. RONDI MCCLURE, Board member of the Kenai River Property
Owner's Association, said she had never heard any negative
comments about Mr. Heyano or Mr. Nelson.
MR. ED DERSHAM, Chairman, Alaska Board of Fisheries, supported
both Art Nelson and Robert Heyano for the board. He worked
extensively with Mr. Heyano for many years and he has shown a
tremendous amount of fairness and deliberativeness with
addressing the board and was sure those assets would carry over
with him as a member of the board.
MR. JOHN JENSEN, Board of Fisheries member, echoed the comments
of other speakers in support of Mr. Nelson and Mr. Heyano.
SENATOR WAGONER moved to forward Mr. Heyano's nomination to the
joint bodies of the legislature. There were no objections.
4:01 - 4:02 - at ease
HB 409-SEINE VESSEL LENGTH
CHAIR SCOTT OGAN announced HB 409 to be up for consideration.
SENATOR THOMAS WAGONER wanted to let the committee know about
the concerns of the United Cook Inlet Drift Association (UCIDA),
which asked to have its statement read into the record.
The following are some of the issues that UCIDA has
with this legislation:
1. The upper size limit - Is this going to be open-
ended? [If] seiners get larger, 70 - 80 ft., the
hold also gets larger. The larger the vessel, the
easier they can fish in rougher waters. How much
larger and longer are they going to get?
2. The potential for a super seiner to intercept
fish bound for other areas increases with their
size increases. Right now they can fish the capes
off of Kodiak and have the ability to fish in
quite rough water and intercept a lot of the fish
bound for Cook Inlet and even into the upper Cook
Inlet.
3. The Board of Fish should take into account all
related seine regulations at the same time new
seine boat lengths are under consideration.
4. They didn't want to ever see the Board of Fish
start considering drum seiners. They are pretty
efficient when it comes to not only seining fish,
but seining just about every fish.
5. They feel it would be necessary to have guideline
harvest limits placed on these seiners to prevent
interception of salmon bound for other regions.
CHAIR OGAN said he shared some of those same concerns. He didn't
know how long a seiner could get and alluded to a 200-footer.
SENATOR WAGONER said that includes two helicopters.
CHAIR OGAN said he heard the justification for changing the
seine boat length was that fishermen wanted to do more
processing to enhance fish quality and things like that, which
he didn't have a problem with. But he did have a problem with
super seiners that would go out and literally scoop everything
up.
SENATOR BEN STEVENS noted that super seiners operate in blue
water, sometimes 100 miles offshore. Finfish rules prevent
harvest of salmon outside of territorial waters. The reality of
a large vessel like that operating in Alaska is not in the
realm. He has no objection to the bill and said it is well
thought out.
SENATOR SEEKINS added his concern, which is that the Board of
Fish process, while it is a process, is not democratic. A
petition gets the issue before the board and only certain people
can testify before it. The guy with less resources and less time
who is busy feeding his family at the time can't get to the
meeting, wherever it may be and he may be left behind.
CHAIR OGAN asked the sponsor's staff if he would be amenable to
putting more parameters on the seiner length.
MR. TIM BARRY, staff to Representative Bill Williams, said the
Salmon Task Force suggested this measure. What authority the
Board of Fisheries should have has been discussed. The main
reason this came out is because it is the only length limit that
is statutory. He didn't think the bill's sponsor would feel
comfortable amending this legislation, but he would accept any
guidance the legislature could give to the board.
SENATOR SEEKINS said he believes the allocative process should
be a legislative process, not administrative. The legislature
has given to the Board of Fisheries a huge burden in deciding
most boat lengths. In that respect, his concern is that the boat
length could change at the expense of some other fishery.
CHAIR OGAN said that enough concern had been expressed that he
wanted to hold the bill over.
SENATOR DYSON said he thought it was bizarre for any legislative
body to be designing boats. "I have confidence that the board
would do good work and if they stray off the reservation, they
will make a course correction after a while...."
SENATOR BEN STEVENS said this is one of the first suggestions
that came forth from a certain sector of the industry in the
first year of the task force. It has had a considerable amount
of discussion and deliberation.
It was originally put in place to prevent large
seiners coming up from the Lower 48 and going to
multiple fishery areas, because the bigger vessel had
the ability to travel a distance around the state to
fish.... As a result of this law, [there] was a single
area registration for the vessel so that the larger
vessel couldn't move from one part of the state to the
other. We just said if you're going to fish in one
area, that's where you're going to fish that boat. We
still have the single area registration for the
vessel. We did do a piece that said you can be an
individual and move from one fishery to the next, but
you can't take your boat... This law has been on the
books since statehood and it's never been modified;
it's never been changed. A lot of us have a concern
about it.
TAPE 04-40, SIDE B
SENATOR SEEKINS said this bill just removes the legislative
restriction:
But don't believe that just because this legislative
restriction has been removed, that the legislature
isn't a court of last appeal, so to speak, if you go
hog wild and don't do things in a just manner.... I'm
willing to take that risk, because it is the process
even though I have some question about the decisions
that are made from time to time.
4:32 to 4:33 - at ease
SB 297-BEAR HUNTING/DISPOSAL OF HIDE/SKULL
CHAIR SCOTT OGAN announced SB 297 to be up for consideration.
SENATOR THOMAS WAGONER moved to adopt CSSB 297(RES), version \X.
CHAIR OGAN objected for discussion purposes. He explained that
on page 2 there's a lot of concern.
There has been testimony from the Department of Law
that allowing non-resident hunters to hunt without a
guide may compromise the safety requirements for
requiring a guide for dangerous game like bears. This
is not a hunt; this is a bear predation management
program. So, it is not a hunt.
CHAIR OGAN said that language on page 2, line 19, added "and has
taken big game in the state during at least one calendar year
and who has obtained a hunter safety certificate issued under
(f) of this section" to require the person has legally hunted
big game already in at least two calendar years. He thought this
went a long way to address safety concerns.
SENATOR WAGONER asked how a person would prove that they have
legally hunted big game in the state during at least two
calendar years.
CHAIR OGAN replied that they would have to sign an affidavit
saying that they have done it. It is a misdemeanor if they lie
about it. "There's a certain amount of trust factor in it...."
He said the next change is on page 3, section (f), that provides
the hunter safety course. He asked Mr. Robus if the department
would have the authority to require a safety course.
MR. MATT ROBUS, Director, Division of Wildlife Conservation,
answered that he has the authority to provide reasonable
training for people who are going to go out and deal with wild
animals, especially big game.
CHAIR OGAN said the next change is on page 3, line 29, which
increases the fee to $250 when the department seals the bear.
"So, there's no money up front, but if you get one, you're going
to pay a couple bucks. That should more than offset the cost of
doing the training."
He indicated that Mr. Robus nodded when he said the fiscal note
is zero.
SENATOR SEEKINS continued explaining the CS saying that all
references to this program are changed to "bear predation
management permit". Military people who want to accompany have
the same requirement to be consistent with the rest of the bill.
SENATOR SEEKINS moved conceptual Amendment 1.
CHAIR OGAN objected to discuss where it would be inserted.
SENATOR WAGONER noted that they hadn't adopted the CS, yet.
SENATOR SEEKINS recognized that and withdrew his motion.
CHAIR OGAN maintained his objection to the CS and then noted
there were no further objections and CSSB 297(RES), version X,
was adopted.
SENATOR SEEKINS moved conceptual Amendment 1. He explained that
it instructs the Board of Game to implement the methods and
means necessary to effectively carry out the purposes of bear
predator management.
MR. ROBUS acknowledged the work that went into this bill in two
days and he thought the CS took care of the issues he brought
forward before. He didn't have a problem with language stating
the department and the board shall apply the appropriate methods
in areas where bear populations are deemed to have to be
decreased.
This does now form something that is analogous to the
wolf control statute and regulations and the findings
that come under those regulations. Now I see the board
being able to rather smoothly incorporate anything
that has to be taken care of in the multi-predator
system can be dealt with through one predator
management plan.
CHAIR OGAN removed his objection to Amendment 1. He left it up
to the drafter to put the language in the appropriate place.
SENATOR SEEKINS asked Mr. Robus if he thought "the board shall
authorize and department shall implement" would be more in line
with what the line of authority should be.
MR. ROBUS replied that is a good point.
In the wolf predation control programs we're doing
now, we are implementing in the sense that we are
managing the permits. Certainly, implementing the
permit part of the program is a departmental function
and perhaps kind of the combination language you just
said is better.
SENATOR SEEKINS moved to amend Amendment 1 to read:
The board shall authorize and the department shall
implement whatever methods and means deemed necessary.
There were no objections and Amendment 1 was amended for the
first time.
SENATOR SEEKINS said that this legislature now sits and observes
what the Board of Game does and still has the right, if the
methods and means are not authorized and implemented, to
effectively reduce the bear populations in identified areas to
give it legislative direction.
CHAIR OGAN noted that there were no further comments.
SENATOR SEEKINS moved to pass CSSB 297(RES), from committee with
attached zero fiscal note. There were no objections and it was
so ordered. There being no further business to come before the
committee, he adjourned the meeting at 4:50 p.m.
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