Legislature(1993 - 1994)
03/24/1994 03:40 PM Senate RES
| Audio | Topic |
|---|
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SENATE RESOURCES COMMITTEE
March 24, 1994
3:40 P.M.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Mike Miller, Chairman
Senator Loren Leman, Vice Chairman
Senator Steve Frank
MEMBERS ABSENT
Senator Drue Pearce
Senator Al Adams
Senator Dave Donley
Senator Fred Zharoff
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SENATE BILL NO. 310
"An Act relating to the management and sale of state timber;
relating to the classification of state land that would preclude
harvesting of timber or would designate harvesting of timber as an
incompatible use; relating to the administration of forest land,
proposals for state forest, and the determination of sustained
yield; and providing for an effective date."
PREVIOUS ACTION
SB 310 - See Resources minutes dated 3/2/94, 3/16/94 and 3/22/94.
WITNESS REGISTER
Greg Mahacheck
P.O. Box 56245
North Pole, Ak. 99705
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 310.
James Drew
4725 Villanova Dr.
Fairbanks, Ak. 99709
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported CSSB 310.
William Green
1230 16th Ave.
Fairbanks, Ak. 99701
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 310.
Pamela Held
330 Woodland Ave.
Fairbanks, Ak. 99709
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 310.
Robert Hull
1630 Washington Dr.
Fairbanks, Ak. 99709
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 310.
Steve Pecheck
3927 Venture Lane
Fairbanks, Ak. 99707
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SB 310.
John Faucher
P.O. Box 73255
Fairbanks, Ak. 99707
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 310.
Fred Heflinger
P.O. Box 82390
Fairbanks, Ak. 99708
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 310.
Carl Rosenberg
P.O. Box 81996
Fairbanks, Ak. 99708
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SB 310.
Sarah James
P.O. Box 51
Arctic Village, Ak. 99722
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SB 310.
Dave Lacey
P.O. Box 81765
Fairbanks, Ak. 99708
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SB 310.
Hugh Doogan
359 Slater Street
Fairbanks, Ak. 99701
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 310.
Pam Webster
P.O. Box 70953
Fairbanks, Ak. 99707
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SB 310.
Ted Swen
P.O. Box 82068
Fairbanks, Ak. 99708
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SB 310.
Phillip Martin
P.O. Box 195
Ester, Ak. 99725
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SB 310.
Sylvia Ward
NAEC
218 Driveway
Fairbanks, Ak. 99701
Leonard Kimerling
1380 Coyote Terrace
Fairbanks, Ak. 99709
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SB 310.
John Loquvam
1874 Buck's Rd.
Fairbanks, Ak. 99709
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SB 310.
Hillary Schaefer
P.O. Box 435
Ester, Ak. 99725
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SB 310.
Harry Porter
3206 Riverview Dr.
Fairbanks, Ak. 99709
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 310.
Harold Gillam
104 2nd Ave.
Fairbanks, Ak. 99701
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 310.
Eva Saulitis
325 Yana
Fairbanks, Ak. 99709
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SB 310.
Richard Hayden
470 Canary Lane
Fairbanks, Ak. 99709
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SB 310.
Richard McCaffrey
P.O. Box 86
Ester, Ak. 99725
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SB 310.
Trish Wurtz
P.O. Box 82864
Fairbanks, Ak. 99708
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SB 310.
Louise Silet
P.O. Box 83301
Fairbanks, Ak. 99708
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SB 310.
Monica Garza
3891 Frenchman Rd.
Fairbanks, Ak. 99709
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SB 310.
Mike Prax
1015 Meadow Rue
North Pole, Ak. 99709
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 310.
Robert Day
P.O. Box 81931
Fairbanks, Ak. 99708
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SB 310.
Jacqueline D'Auria
P.O. Box 74704
Fairbanks, Ak. 99707
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SB 310.
Barbara Kelly
6751 Marguerite
Juneau, Ak. 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SB 310.
Andrew Romanoff
South East Alaska Conservation Council (SEACC)
419 6th St. #328
Juneau, Ak. 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SB 310.
Katya Kirsch
P.O. Box 521
Haines, Ak.
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SB 310.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 94-28, SIDE A
Number 001
CHAIRMAN MILLER called the Resources Committee meeting to order at
3:40 p.m. and announced SB 310 (STATE/PRIVATE/MUNI TIMBER
OPERATION/SALE) to be up for consideration.
GREG MAHACHECK, Fairbanks, supported SB 310. He said when you fly
across the state there are plenty of areas that look like they are
clear cut, so there's nothing new about that. Also, our growing
cycle here is much quicker than in California, about 80 - 100
years. He thought more public process should be involved and then
he would be able to support this bill.
JAMES DREW, Fairbanks, supported CSSB 310. He thought it would
bring many job opportunities and social benefits for Alaskans. An
expanded forest industry can provide alternative jobs to replace
those that are eliminated by reduction of the state budget, he
said.
WILLIAM GREEN, Fairbanks resident for 48 years, said timber is like
any other living resource in that there is a time when its highest
and best use is to be harvested to make way for new plantings. The
science of sustained yield management is well developed and should
be utilized in Alaska's forests as well as all other states. He
supported SB 310, because it will create new jobs for our community
and diversify our economy. It should also increase the local tax
base to help offset the decline in the state budget.
PAMELA HELD, Fairbanks small business owner, supported SB 310. We
need responsible development of our natural resources in this state
in an environment of cooperation and harmony. Resource development
must be a top priority, he said.
ROBERT HULL, Fairbanks resident for 15 years, said timber is one of
the renewable resources we have and he favored SB 310, because it
helps develop those renewable resources.
STEVE PECHECK, Fairbanks resident for 20 years, opposed SB 310,
because it makes multiple use of the state forests secondary. The
20 year agreements are too long. He thought the key to a good
economy is staying local. He cautioned that in so many cases where
large outside enterprises are encouraged by the government,
resources are used so easily that wise usage is often passed by.
JOHN FAUCHER, Fairbanks, commented that he didn't agree with the
environmental testimony he had heard regarding clear cutting.
FRED HEFLINGER, Fairbanks, supported SB 310 in its original form.
The CS has so much public input that the environmentalists could
stop it. Soon the trees in the Tanana forest will be so big that
they will start to fall over, so they should be harvested. He
wanted big business to come in.
CARL ROSENBERG, Fairbanks, said he is a local woodworker and a 15
year Alaskan resident. He was concerned with FMAs, public appeals,
and closing out small local responsible users of timber resources.
He viewed incredible waste made by large scale timber harvest
practices. He would like to see a bill that would support local
businesses that use our resources wisely.
SARAH JAMES, Arctic Village, believed in small scale logging
because it favors indigenous peoples. She opposed long term
logging, because it is another way for outsiders to come in and
take what they need and then leave.
DAVE LACEY, Fairbanks, said SB 310 was another nail in the coffin
or rural Alaska, because as more roads and more developers and more
outsiders are brought in, it's going to destroy the subsistence
economy. He asked them to please protect the jobs already here and
the subsistence economy which, although they have a cultural basis,
are jobs, nevertheless.
Number 341
HUGH DOOGAN, Fairbanks, said he was 54 years old and was born and
raised in the state of Alaska. He was raised on subsistence and
had seen logging in the territorial days in southeastern Alaska.
He said the south end of Douglas Island has a lot of big beautiful
trees which had been cleared off at one time by the mining
industry, because they used acid to clean the gold claims. Mother
nature does bring back the resources, he said. He supported SB
310, but he had a problem on page 3 where he recommended deleting
"includes compatible traditional use", because traditional uses go
in and out. He also would like to see clarification of wildlife
habitats.
SENATOR LEMAN noted that the definition of wildlife habitats used
in SB 310 is in existing law in Title 38.
COLIN READ, Fairbanks, said he supported a diversified economy, but
he did not want our resources to go to outsiders. He thought they
should consider the far reaching implications of this bill. He
said Alaskan based operations are much more beneficial to our
economy. With this bill, a lot of the interests will be coming
from outside. Very little of the income from the resources will be
staying inside Alaska which concerns him a great deal. He
requested hearings on this issue in Fairbanks so they can get a
true sense of what the public wishes.
Number 424
PAM WEBSTER, Fairbanks resident for 17 years, said she had been in
this room 4 times now. This time she did not want to talk about
the reasons they don't like SB 310. She is concerned with Senator
Frank's comment that some people don't want sustainable timber
harvest, no matter what, a comment she had read in the paper after
the first few hearings. She noted that the ratio was 3 to 1
against SB 310 which is a lot of people, not just some. She said
she believed in jobs and had to work for a living like all the
other people in the room, but she didn't think we need to degrade
the environment to do it. SB 310 is the quick and easy way to make
money.
TED SWEN, Fairbanks, said the last three mornings on his way to
work he saw trucks carrying logs. This means to him that SB 310 is
not essential to the development of a forest product industry in
this area since it's already started. The issue is really whether
FMAs and 20 year contracts are the appropriate tool to use in the
development of these resources. He didn't think there was accurate
data on the impact of large scale logging on fish and wildlife
resources which are extremely important to a lot of Alaskans.
MR. SWEN objected to the language in section 5 of the CS which was
amended to read "that the primary purpose of state forested land is
the development of commercial forest lands under the principles of
sustained yield, etc." He felt it inappropriate for the
legislature, a small group of short term representatives, to
reprioritize the relative value of the myriad of forest resources
that occur on our land. A shift in priorities requires careful
thought and everyone should be involved in it.
MR. SWEN said he was concerned with Senator Frank's comment from a
local paper saying he was bewildered by the opposition to this
bill, but that he was going to proceed anyhow. He noted that there
had been a lot of articulate testimony against it, and there is
nothing bewildering about it except that it hasn't been withdrawn
in light of all the opposition.
PHILLIP MARTIN, wildlife biologist of 15 years, opposed SB 310,
because large scale logging has the potential to impact wildlife
habitat like nothing else they have seen in the interior. Certain
habitat like the high volume old growth spruce and poplar we could
loose altogether in a 20 year contract. The process set up in SB
310 is set up to look on the surface like it requires consideration
of wildlife habitat values, but the reality is that this form of
management with long term contracts would far outstrip our
knowledge of the impact.
SYLVIA WARD, NAEC, Fairbanks, supported having hearings in
Fairbanks on this issue of large scale timber development. There
needs to be a cost benefit analysis of this proposed industry, she
said. All of her efforts to research this issue have indicated it
would result in an influx of new residents into their community and
encourage raw log exports and unsustainable levels. There is a
problem with out of state hire with this industry. 44% of timber
employees come from outside Alaska. Public record indicates the
state has not yet had a plausible experience with large volume
contracts.
LEONARD KIMERLING, Fairbanks resident for 25 years, said he was not
opposed to resource development, because it is critical for the
future of Alaska. SB 310 seems to do that in a very haphazard and
rushed way which causes a bad public perception. He would like to
see more study of the benefits and liabilities over a long period
of time. Many people are just beginning to realize the impact of
clear cutting on slow growth boreal forests. That is why there is
such a broad coalition of people against this bill. It's not just
an organization of extreme environmentalists. It's very much the
opposite. He supported consensus from the public on this issue.
Number 542
JOHN LOQUVAM, Fairbanks, said he has a small woodworking business.
He supported the local mills and thought the wisdom of DNR's plan
to increase timber harvest in the Tanana Valley was very debatable.
It is irresponsible at best. SB 310 is a desperate attempt to ram
an industry ready made down the throats of interior residents, he
said. This is the type of development that will have very real and
naked impacts on their outdoors. SB 310 sets us up for another
chapter in the Alaskan saga of boom and bust.
HILLARY SCHAEFER, Fairbanks, opposed SB 310 and CSSB 310 and is
concerned about the speed it is being rushed through the
legislature. One of the main problems with the bill is
establishment of FMAs. Once a contract has been entered on, the
public has no way to appeal its content. She saw a problem with
the future control and abuse of our forests by commercial timber
development companies. As of this moment our forests are being
multiused, she said. If control is given to the large timber
concerns, eventually forest habitat will be destroyed and
livelihoods will be adversely impacted.
SENATOR LEMAN noted that the bill was still in its first committee
of referral and this was the fourth hearing they were having on it.
MOLLY HUDSON, Fairbanks, said she is not a tree hugger or a bunny
lover, but she likes to hunt and fish and likes to live in Alaska
because of the opportunity she has as an Alaskan to take advantage
of state natural resources in a respectable sustainable fashion.
As an Alaskan she resents our resources being negotiated away to
outsiders. She opposed the quiet negotiations of FMAs and the
assumption she would happily accept the intrusion of corporate
logging roads and its financial drain of large scale logging
facilities.
TAPE 94-28, SIDE B
Number 580
Forest Management Agreements mean the end of multiple use, she
said.
HARRY PORTER, Fairbanks, supported SB 310. When he arrived here 43
years ago, he needed a job. Now he has 3 married children and he
felt they and their offspring should be able to stay in Alaska, but
they cannot stay here unless jobs are created. He has every
confidence that the people trained in timber management, forestry,
and environmental concerns can come to some agreement that can
provide jobs for his children. He also noted that there is a lot
of concern over this bill, but a lot of the people are at work and
aren't able to testify.
HAROLD GILLAM, Fairbanks, supported SB 310. He said he thought
there was room for small and large timber companies, but we have
been losing small timber companies, he said, and suggested
investigating to find out why.
EVA SAULITIS, Fairbanks, opposed SB 310, because it allows 20 years
contracts and opens the forests up to large scale logging. She
said some common ground among the people testifying is support of
local loggers. They just can't agree on whether this bill will
protect the local loggers or not. She feels that outside companies
will come in and cut down large amounts of forest and leave less
forest available for local loggers. She thinks the bill needs
extensive hearings to get an accurate scoping of what public
concerns.
RICHARD HAYDEN, Fairbanks, said he used to be a subsistence hunter
and fisherman. He opposed SB 310. He said there is no way Alaska
can support large scale logging without being damaged in some way.
Nobody wants a threadbare carpet, he said.
Number 470
RICHARD MCCAFFREY, Fairbanks, said he has a masters degree in
forestry science. He opposed SB 310, because it cuts the public
out of the planning process. FMAs should be avoided he said in
favor of small scale sustainable harvest operations reached by
community consensus.
TRISH WURTZ, Fairbanks, said she has a PHD in forest science from
the University of Oregon. She supported the development of timber
resources in Alaska. She supported clear cutting over other kinds
of systems, and in certain situations she supports FMAs, but she
doesn't support SB 310, because it is haphazardously written. More
questions should be answered about the FMAs like where do they work
well. Where and under what conditions have they not worked, how
big do they have to be to be viable, etc.
LOUISE SILET, Fairbanks, opposed SB 310. She said they needed to
look at the ramifications of large scale, long term timber
development and give people a chance to participate in this
important decision on how we use our resources.
MONICA GARZA, Fairbanks, opposed CSSB 310. The 20 year forest
management agreements destroy the forest for present and future
generations. SB 310 is short sighted. It does not look at the
long term commercial, economic, and environmental consequences of
clear cutting.
MIKE PRAX, Fairbanks, supported SB 310. People in the Forestry
Department do not have a vision of clear cutting the forest, but
they see a need to harvest trees that are mature and falling down,
etc. We need to do something other than just let the forests
stand. SB 310 does not mandate one type of contract and we, as
citizens, are not able to micromanage each individual contract.
Number 316
ROBERT DAY, Fairbanks biologist, said he works on a lot of
resources development problems all around Alaska. He said his main
disagreement with SB 310 is that it's very bad business to change
the primary purpose of state forest land from multiple use to
commercial production of timber. It is also basically an end run
around public input at the front end of a timber harvesting.
Putting the sole jurisdiction of a sale in the hands of the
Commissioner of DNR is not good either, because they are not
elected. They are appointed - most likely because they are well-
to-do businessmen. So their bias would be towards making money
with the forests rather than looking at other uses.
JACQUELINE D'AURIA, Fairbanks, opposed SB 310, because it clearly
focuses on short term monetary gain for a few and long term
decimation of the interior forests which support the livelihood and
lifestyle of residents of many diverse backgrounds.
BARBARA KELLY, Juneau resident, said she appreciated their attempts
to deal with the public's concerns, but she couldn't support SB 310
or CSSB 310. She did not think sales of under 500,000 board feet
should automatically be exempt from the requirements of Section
38.05.113. This is too large an amount for some regions of the
state, because of the varying amounts of board feet per acre.
She did not believe it was in the best interests of the people of
Alaska to enter into such long terms contracts as allowed under the
Forest Management Agreement Section. It eliminated the possibility
of a continuing dialogue about and review of uses of particular
areas of state forest land. Long term contracts benefits only
those involved in the timber industry and no one else, she
emphasized.
MS. KELLY also disagreed with Section 41.17.200 as it has been
amended. The primary purpose of state forests should not be the
commercial development of forest land. This is in direct conflict
with multiple use management.
ANDREW ROMANA, South East Alaska Conservation Council, said that
both the Ketchikan and Sitka 50 year monopoly logging contracts
have caused a world of hurt. Unsustainable overcutting has and
continued to liquidate the forest of its trees, jobs, money, and
habitats that are the foundation of the economic well being of the
65,000 residents who call South East Alaska home.
It is difficult to know what level of logging is truly sustainable
on any forest. Last fall both Forest Service and Fish and Wildlife
Service biologists announced that present logging levels will soon
cause extinction of the goshawk, wolf, and brown bear for many
areas of the Tongass National Forest, MR. ROMANA said.
KATYA KIRSCH, Haines resident, said she lives in a house that was
built with local timber from Haines. Many people in Haines support
a modest wood products industry, she said. It's a question of
appropriate scale for the wood products industry in Alaska. In
Haines, long term contracts look like a bad idea. Timber sales
should not run any longer than 3 - 5 years which is how they are
run now, because facts change and inventories that seem
scientifically correct have been found to be incorrect years later
- often with less available timber than originally calculated. She
commented, in relation to this, that the state needs to put a
higher priority on its timber inventory data which by law is needed
to harvest areas.
MS. KIRSCH said if FMAs are institutionalized, that would be a bad
public policy. If they are allowed, the public and other agencies
should have more time for oversight than this bill allows. Page 3,
line 10 must be changed to allow for at least 30 days and more like
90 days.
Below cost timber sales should not be allowed. This has happened
all over the state, because the state shouldn't be losing money
subsidizing the removal of our forests. The state has been losing
90 cents on each dollar in recent years. She would like to see an
economic analysis that shows why the proposed sales in the
Fairbanks area will not lose money.
Primary manufacture is also a problem. The court has ruled that
state timber does not need any manufacture. It can be shipped out
in the round. She didn't see why this provision would not be
challenged again in court when an FMA is contracted.
If the legislature insists on carrying through with this
legislation, FMAs should be bonded for clean up and carry through.
In Haines several million board feet were left on the ground
because the contractor would have lost money transporting and
selling that particular timber.
Private companies are in business to make money, not to care for
public resources, MS. KIRSCH said. It's important that DNR
continue to manage public lands.
Eliminating public and agency oversight of so-called emergency
sales and of two yearly sales of less than 500,000 board feet in
each region is bad public policy.
SENATOR LEMAN asked if she thought all the ideas were bad public
policy. MS. KIRSCH said that the majority of the bill has to do
with long term contracts and FMAs and she didn't see any good
coming out of that for the state's finances or the good of the
people.
SENATOR LEMAN commented that he thought they would have the ability
within the FMAs to change quotas or other things that would allow
forest lands to be managed for multiple use. MS. KIRSCH said she
didn't think it likely and used the Tongass as a good example of
where a certain amount of timber is guaranteed and then they found
out later that there weren't as many tress in some areas as they
thought.
TAPE 94-29, SIDE A
Number 001
She thought 3 - 5 years would be a much safer time span for being
certain of the facts. SENATOR LEMAN said he would like to discuss
this issue with his technical people and others.
SENATOR LEMAN thanked everyone for their participation and
adjourned the meeting at 5:16 p.m.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|