Legislature(1993 - 1994)
03/24/1993 03:45 PM Senate RES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SENATE RESOURCES COMMITTEE
March 24, 1993
3:45 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Mike Miller, Chairman
Senator Loren Leman, Vice Chairman
Senator Steve Frank
Senator Drue Pearce
Senator Al Adams
Senator Fred Zharoff
Senator Dave Donley
MEMBERS ABSENT
All Members Present
OTHER MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Harley Olberg
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SENATE BILL NO. 165
"An Act making an appropriation to the Alyeska Settlement
Fund and making appropriations from the Alyeska Settlement
Fund; and providing for an effective date."
SENATE BILL NO. 153
"An Act relating to the exchange of certain fish for seafood
products, custom processing of certain fish, and use of
certain fish for charitable purposes."
SENATE BILL NO. 159
"An Act prohibiting the commissioner of natural resources
from classifying state land, water, or land and water so
that mining, mineral entry and location, mineral
prospecting, and mineral leasing are precluded or are
designated an incompatible use without an act of the
legislature if the area involved contains more than 640
acres except in certain situations; and providing for an
effective date."
PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION
SB 165 - No previous action to record.
SB 153 - No previous action to record.
SB 159 - No previous action to record.
WITNESS REGISTER
Paul Fuhs, Commissioner
Department of Commerce and Economic Development
P.O. Box 110800
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0800
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 165.
Michael Brown
Chugach Alaska Corporation
560 E 34th Avenue, St. 200
Anchorage, Alaska 99503
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 165.
Chuck Totemoff
Chenega Corporation
B333 Denali St., Suite 220-H
Anchorage, Alaska 99503
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 165.
Ann Wieland
Kachemak Bay Citizens Coalition
1421 N Street
Anchorage, Alaska 99501
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SB 165.
Jerry McCutcheon
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SB 165.
Diane McBride
Kachemak Bay Citizens Coalition
Homer, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 165.
Hugh Doogan
359 Slater Street
Fairbanks, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SB 165.
Joe Ambrose, Aide
%Senator Robin Taylor
State Capitol
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 153.
Janice Adair, Assistant Commissioner
Department of Environmental Conservation
410 Willoughby Ave., Suite 105
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1795
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 153.
Michelle Bugni
Alaska Troller's Association
130 Seward Street
Juneau, Alaska 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SB 153 as written, but would
support with certain changes.
Richard Peifer
HIRA Fisheries Joint Ventures
P.O. Box 235
Klawock, Alaska 99925
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 153.
Rick Lauber
Pacific Seafood Processors Association
321 Highland Dr.
Juneau, Alaska 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 153.
Steve Borrell, Executive Director
Alaska Miners Association
501 Northern Lites, #203
Anchorage, Alaska 99503
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 159.
Raga Elim, Special Assistant
Department of Natural Resources
400 Willoughby Ave.
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1724
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 159 with two amendments.
Jack Phelps, Aide
% Representative Kott
State Capitol
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 159.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 93-17, SIDE A
Number 001
SENATOR MILLER called the Resources Committee meeting to
order at 3:45 p.m. and announced SB 165 APPROP: ALYESKA
SETTLEMENT FUND to be up for consideration.
SENATOR PEARCE said this bill comes as a result of an
agreement that was signed by the State and Federal
Government and Alyeska Pipeline Service Company. The bill
appropriates $28,200,000 to several projects around the
state from the Alyeska Settlement Fund. She said since the
agreement has a September 15 "drop dead date," if the
legislature does not appropriate these funds, the agreement
will not longer be in force. The communities who were the
most affected have an opportunity for some jobs coming not
only from the construction, but from the long term
development.
SENATOR LEMAN asked what restrictions there were on the
grant to Chugach. SENATOR PEARCE answered she was
interested in having the funding go as a grant to the
corporation, and not go to DOTPF, because she didn't think
the projects would ever get built for the amount of money
that's in the agreement otherwise.
PAUL FUHS, Commissioner, Department of Commerce and Economic
Development, said he would feel very comfortable being the
agency doing the grants. They would do it with a minimum of
state overhead. He said they had already been working with
several communities with their projects.
Number 128
SENATOR ADAMS remarked that any money left over was to be
returned to the joint trust account, yet SB 165, in Section
6 says it lapses. Where does it lapse and does this
conflict with the agreement, he asked. SENATOR PEARCE said
the lapse in Section 6 is "as determined by the Department
of Commerce and Economic Development," because we have to
follow the agreement and it would have to go back to the
fund.
Number 155
MICHAEL BROWN, President, Chugach Alaska Corporation, said
he prepared a briefing document that is in the members'
packets. Briefly, he said they believe this settlement
would serve to protect the economic interest of these
communities. A grant of this nature is exempt from the
state procurement regulations which will allow these
projects to proceed on a much faster basis and "get much
more bang for the buck." They have done extensive
negotiations with the village corporations of which all
support this vehicle. Chugach Alaska Corporation would be
in a position to guarantee that Alaska consultants,
contractors, and laborers would be used on this project.
Number 189
CHUCK TOTEMOFF, President, Chenega Corporation, supported
the concepts in SB 165.
MR. BROWN commented that if this appropriation is made,
Chugach Alaska Corporation will not be a contractor doing
the work in field on this. They would be in the role of a
project manager.
SENATOR LEMAN said there were a number of activities
starting now and he asked how they were being funded - the
permitting and design? MR. BROWN said that it was done in-
house.
Number 244
SENATOR PEARCE explained that the money flows in three
separate checks and the first one has been received, but
additional funding won't be coming in until next year.
Number 282
ANN WIELAND, Kachemak Bay Citizens Coalition, said the $7.5
million for the purchase of inholdings within Kachemak Bay
State Park, contained within SB 165 is an essential
component of a funding mechanism of a purchase agreement
that was negotiated through the state and the private owners
of the surface, subsurface, and timber estates within
Kachemak Bay State Park. It is supported by a broad
spectrum of interests from tourism, recreation and timber
industry representatives, conservation, commercial, charter,
and sport fishing boats, native corporations and education
interests. The purchase of these holdings will maintain the
integrity of Kachemak Bay State Park and will restore it to
its original configurations created in 1971.
Number 296
JERRY MCCUTCHEON, Anchorage, said timber in the Kachemak Bay
area has spruce bark beetles. The legislature needs to
appropriate the money to selectively log and remove the
spruce bark beetles. He advised they were buying an
eyesore.
Number 333
DIANE MCBRIDE, Kachemak Bay Citizens Coalition, Homer,
supported SB 165.
Number 372
HUGH DOOGAN, Fairbanks, said he wanted money spent for all
Alaskans and not money spent for just a few. He spoke about
the problems with spruce beetles. He said we needed to
support the Alaskan people by turning down the Kachemak Bay
buy back, because it would give people jobs to harvest the
trees through selective clear cutting. He said no one
should have the right to appropriate state money except the
legislature. He thought a big chunk of the Exxon Valdez
money should be put into an educational construction fund so
we could build schools in the state of Alaska for all the
state.
Number 438
SENATOR PEARCE said she hoped he had an opportunity to vote
on dedicating the funds for school construction next year.
She said purchase of Kachemak Bay timber came under the
"acquisition of equivalent resources" section of the
agreement we made with Alyeska. She pointed out that we
would lose all $31.5 million if we don't go forward with
this bill and the agreement.
Number 452
SENATOR ZHAROFF said he is dissatisfied with the Kachemak
Bay buy back. He had reservations with classifying land in
a protected status that has a potential of creating jobs or
assisting the economy of a given area. Purchasing this
timber causes a problem with availability of resource for
the saw mill that's open in that part of the state.
SENATOR PEARCE said so far the trustees have spent almost
$200 million doing assessments and the six of them approve
the Kachemak Bay buy back.
SENATOR ZHAROFF said the trustees have secure jobs and are
well secured in their retirements. The current plant has
approximately 100 people employed and they want to add
another 150 people. He asked if Senator Little had been
contacted regarding this legislation.
SENATOR PEARCE said she and her staff are fully agreed with
this legislation.
SENATOR ADAMS asked what the Department of Law's position
was on this legislation. SENATOR PEARCE said they are
supportive.
SENATOR ADAMS asked if we are setting a precedent for
utilizing capital projects for the purchase of land.
SENATOR MILLER said the Commissioner of the Department of
Commerce and Economic Development would probably not
consider it so.
Number 515
SENATOR PEARCE moved to pass SB 165 from committee with
individual recommendations. There were no objections and it
was so ordered.
SENATOR MILLER announced SB 153 EXCHANGE OF RAW FISH FOR
SEAFOOD PRODUCT to be up for consideration.
JOE AMBROSE, Staff for Senator Robin Taylor, read Senator
Taylor's statement on SB 153.
SENATOR LEMAN said his concern was with the volume of
seafood product that was being shipped out of state and the
potential of that entering some commercial market. He said
that tourists ship their fish out of state and then sell it
in the winter to pay for their trip up here. This is
contrary to state law and it is very hard to prosecute them.
MR. AMBROSE said Senator Taylor was aware of his concerns
and didn't think SB 153 was the proper vehicle for some
export limit. He suggested inserting on page 4, line 15
after the word "exchange" insert "during a 24-hour period a
person who may exchange seafood products for raw fish under
the ..."
TAPE 17, SIDE B
Number 580
"...section, may not accept or exchange more than one
possession limit of each species of raw fish from that same
person. Possession limit is determined according to
regulation in effect on the date applicable to the fishery
where the raw fish was taken."
Senator Taylor is willing to restrict the amount of raw
product that can be exchanged, he added.
SENTOR ADAMS asked the definition of "wholesome." MR.
AMBROSE said it meant food that was not spoiled. This is
language that was suggested last year when they were
discussing quality control.
SENATOR ADAMS asked him to define "small-scale
manufacturing." MR. AMBROSE said the intent was to address
the mom and pop type operations and encourage their growth.
SENATOR ZHAROFF asked on page 4, lines 8 - 9, how "sport
use" was being defined. MR. AMBROSE said this would be
someone with a sport fishing license in his possession
whether they are in a charter boat or a dinghy of their own.
SENATOR ZHAROFF asked if the fishing guides were excluded
from this bill. MR. AMBROSE said the intent of that
language was not to include the services provided by a
charter operator. He explained that folks coming in on the
cruise ships, go out fishing. The custom processing that is
available in some areas is time consuming. They have to
keep the fish separated throughout the entire process, so
you get the same fish back. The fish has to be shipped back
to the customer which is very expensive. A lot of people do
not use that service because of the expense. What they want
to offer is the chance to get an Alaskan processed product
in exchange for the raw fish.
Number 470
JANICE ADAIR, Department of Environmental Conservation, said
the seafood inspection program is within their department.
She said their first amendment is on page 2, line 18 after
"exchanging" adding "thermally processed, vacuum packaged,
smoked, cured, or pickled" to clarify what kinds of seafood
products might be exchanged for raw fish.
The next two amendments relate to the definition of raw fish
and seafood products to exclude bivalve molluscan shellfish.
SENATOR FRANK asked if she would have problems if the
legislature determined what the ratios would properly be?
MS. ADAIR answered that wouldn't be a problem.
Number 434
MICHELLE BUGNI, Alaska Troller's Association, opposed SB 164
as written. If it is amended to include provisions which
limit the amount of raw and processed seafood that can be
transported from Alaska to an angler's permanent place of
residence, they will endorse it. If they are pressed to
compromise on the language, she suggested using, "The export
of raw and processed sport-caught seafood transported to an
individual's permanent place of residence be limited to one
possession limit for each species harvested." They would
like the Board of Fisheries to address this matter and
provide an effective date after it has made a ruling on
export limitations.
SENATOR ZHAROFF said he wanted clarification on the
definition of one possession limit as opposed to bag limit.
MS. BUGNI said there is a difference between bag limits and
possession limits. It is per area.
SENATOR LEMAN said they were dealing with two limits - one
was the bag limit and the other was the export limit.
SENATOR ZHAROFF asked how this would be monitored and
enforced and what would the penalties be for a processor who
knowingly takes in more than an individual is allowed.
MS. BUGNI said the intent of the bill would not be to
encourage anglers to go out and catch more fish, but she
thought they might be tempted to take more, because the
whole process would be a lot easier.
Number 325
RICHARD PEIFER, HIRA Fisheries Joint Venture, Klawock, said
they are interested in adding value processing. There is an
inequity in enforcement in current statutes that prohibits
the exchange of sport caught fish. Basically, he said, it
costs the tourist way too much money to process their fish
in-state. Aside from the fact that many fish are shipped
out of state before they are processed, he pointed out that
many people throw away their catch that is too small to
consider for shipping or processing and that is throwing
away a resource. We lose the opportunity in these cases to
expose them to value-added Alaskan products. If 30 - 50
people bring their fish in to have it processed as one
normal production batch, he can do that very efficiently and
pass the savings on to them, plus save the cost of
transportation and shipping.
MR. PEIFER added that processors are very experienced at
recognizing contaminated or decomposing fish. He said that
wholesome means fit for human consumption.
The negative issues revolve around how many fish people are
taking out of this state. This is a management issue. It
doesn't change the jobs that are going to create the
additional revenues we are going to keep in the state.
Custom processing is one of the ways small business can get
started and grow. He discussed the product recovery rates
due to differences in individual processing techniques.
Number 117
RICK LAUBER, Pacific Seafood Processors Association, asked
them to not put the product recovery rate in statute,
because it is very hard to change a statute. One of the
things he likes about this bill is that it is going to bring
custom processors under DEC, because one of the fears
established processors have is that someone could get sick
from eating salmon processed in a new uninspected mom and
pop operation which would hurt the whole industry.
SENATOR LEMAN asked if he thought this was the right vehicle
for export limits and whether this would encourage abuses
which may or may not conflict with commercial fisheries.
MR. LAUBER said he wasn't sure that issue needed to be
addressed. If it does, then it needs more study. In the
mean time, this bill could pass.
TAPE 93-18, SIDE A
Number 001
SENATOR ZHAROFF said processors are very possessive of their
records and wouldn't make them available to just anybody.
In the bill it just says an "employee of the Department" so
he thought that needed to be made tighter. He also thought
the Department of Revenue should be added to the list since
that is where a lot of the licensing and bonding is put
together for the licensing of the processing.
SENATOR MILLER said it was his intent to put this bill into
a subcommittee of one, Senator Leman, and have him get it
ready for Monday and pass it out at that time.
Number 61
SENATOR MILLER announced SB 159 LIMIT ADMINISTRATIVE LAND
CLOSURES to be up for consideration.
SENATOR FRANK, sponsor, said the purpose was to limit the
power of the Commissioner of the Department of Natural
Resources in closing lands to mineral entry. The current
theory is that land should be used for the maximum benefit
of the people and all the land should be open for multiple
use. There is a provision saying the Commissioner can close
lands to multiple use under 640 acres. He said the power
should be reserved for the legislature.
STEVE BORRELL, Alaska Miners Association, supported SB 159.
He told them there were actually three mechanisms by which
state lands can be closed to mineral entry. The first way
is for the legislature to pass bills establishing parks,
refuges, etc. The second mechanism is the application of
Title 16 by ADF&G in areas where anadromous fisheries
resources may be affected. The third mechanism is the focus
of this bill. Passage of this bill would send a positive
signal to the international mining industry.
Number 191
RAGA ELIM, Department of Natural Resources, said the
administration will support this bill with the two
amendments he passed to the committee. He explained that
the first one tightens up some of the wording so that the
term contiguous is inserted helping to define "area." The
second one was designed to maintain the Commissioner's
flexibility in proper land management when time is of
essence in issuing some of these mineral closing orders
while recognizing the appropriate role of the legislature in
certifying any mineral closing orders of over 640 acres.
The Commissioner could issue the mineral closing order
effective immediately and the legislature would be asked to
ratify that. If that didn't happen, the order would
automatically lapse.
Number 238
SENATOR FRANK and MR. BORREL supported both amendments. MR.
BORRELL said it should be clarified that there could be
several 640 acres blocks 2 feet apart. SENATOR FRANK
agreed.
SENATOR FRANK moved to adopt amendment #1 and asked for
unanimous consent. SENATOR LEMAN objected to say that the
language should be run by the bill drafter because it is
different than what he normally sees. Amendment #1 was,
then, adopted.
Number 320
JACK PHELPS, Aide for Representative Pete Kott, sponsor of
HB 2135 which contains the "contiguous" amendment offered by
DNR, wasn't a problem. Although there is potential for
abuse, he pointed out that, as it is proposed, it would also
apply to the closures of multiple-purpose use lands which is
a change in the existing statute.
SENATOR FRANK said they would check with the Department of
Law to make sure it wouldn't raise additional points.
MR. PHELPS said he thought amendment #1 was a good
amendment.
SENATOR LEMAN moved to adopt amendment #2. There were no
objections and it was so ordered.
Number 362
SENATOR LEMAN moved to discharge SB 159 as amended with
accompanying fiscal notes from committee with individual
recommendations. There were no objections and it was so
ordered.
SENATOR MILLER adjourned the meeting at 6:42 p.m
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