Legislature(2017 - 2018)BUTROVICH 205

02/14/2018 03:30 PM RESOURCES

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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+= SB 158 OIL/HAZARDOUS SUB.:CLEANUP/REIMBURSEMENT TELECONFERENCED
Moved SB 158 Out of Committee
-- Testimony <Invitation Only> --
+= SB 173 LIABILITY: PESTICIDES & UTILITY POLES TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
-- Testimony <Invitation Only> --
+= SB 92 VESSELS: REGISTRATION/TITLES; DERELICTS TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
-- Public Testimony --
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
              SENATE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                       February 14, 2018                                                                                        
                           3:32 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Cathy Giessel, Chair                                                                                                    
Senator John Coghill, Vice Chair                                                                                                
Senator Natasha von Imhof                                                                                                       
Senator Bert Stedman                                                                                                            
Senator Kevin Meyer                                                                                                             
Senator Bill Wielechowski                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Senator Click Bishop                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 158                                                                                                             
"An Act  relating to oil  and hazardous substances and  waiver of                                                               
cost recovery  for containment and  cleanup of  certain releases;                                                               
and providing for an effective date."                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED SB 158 OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 173                                                                                                             
"An Act  relating to the liability  of a person or  the state for                                                               
the  release  of  certain  pesticides  during  application  on  a                                                               
utility pole."                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD & HELD                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 92                                                                                                              
"An Act relating  to abandoned and derelict  vessels; relating to                                                               
the registration  of vessels; relating  to certificates  of title                                                               
for  vessels;  relating  to  the  duties  of  the  Department  of                                                               
Administration;  relating  to the  duties  of  the Department  of                                                               
Natural  Resources; establishing  the derelict  vessel prevention                                                               
program;  establishing  the  derelict vessel  prevention  program                                                               
fund; and providing for an effective date."                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD & HELD                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SB 158                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: OIL/HAZARDOUS SUB.:CLEANUP/REIMBURSEMENT                                                                           
SPONSOR(s): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
01/24/18       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
01/24/18       (S)       RES, FIN                                                                                               
02/02/18       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
02/02/18       (S)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
02/02/18       (S)       MINUTE(RES)                                                                                            
02/14/18       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SB 173                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: LIABILITY: PESTICIDES & UTILITY POLES                                                                              
SPONSOR(s): MICCICHE                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
02/02/18       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
02/02/18       (S)       RES                                                                                                    
02/12/18       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
02/12/18       (S)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
02/12/18       (S)       MINUTE(RES)                                                                                            
02/14/18       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SB  92                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: VESSELS: REGISTRATION/TITLES; DERELICTS                                                                            
SPONSOR(s): MICCICHE                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
03/10/17       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
03/10/17       (S)       RES, FIN                                                                                               
03/27/17       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
03/27/17       (S)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/27/17       (S)       MINUTE(RES)                                                                                            
03/31/17       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
03/31/17       (S)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/31/17       (S)       MINUTE(RES)                                                                                            
02/12/18       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
02/12/18       (S)       Scheduled but Not Heard                                                                                
02/14/18       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
AKIS GIALOPSOS, staff to Senator Giessel and the Senate                                                                         
Resources Committee                                                                                                             
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 173 and SB 92.                                                                            
EMILY NAUMAN, Attorney                                                                                                          
Legislative Legal                                                                                                               
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 173.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
RACHEL HANKE, staff to Senator Micciche                                                                                         
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 173 and presented the                                                                     
sectional analysis of CSSB 92 (RES), version 30-LS0481\J, for                                                                   
the sponsor.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KRISTIN RYAN, Director                                                                                                          
Division of Spill Prevention and Response (SPAR)                                                                                
Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC)                                                                                  
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions on SB 173.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
KATHIE WASSERMAN, Executive Director                                                                                            
Alaska Municipal League                                                                                                         
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 92.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CARL UCHYTIL, President                                                                                                         
Alaska Association of Harbor Masters and Port Authorities                                                                       
(AAHPA)                                                                                                                         
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 92.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MARLA THOMPSON, Director                                                                                                        
Division of Motor Vehicles (DMV)                                                                                                
Department of Administration (DOA)                                                                                              
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on the fiscal note for SB 92.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
BRYAN HAWKINS, Vice President                                                                                                   
Alaska Association of Harbor Masters and Port Authorities                                                                       
(AAHPA) and Homer Harbor Master                                                                                                 
City of Homer, Alaska                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 92.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
RACHEL LORD, Executive Secretary                                                                                                
Alaska Association of Harbor Masters and Port Authorities                                                                       
(AAHPA)                                                                                                                         
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 92.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
ED KING, Special Assistant to the Commissioner                                                                                  
Department of Natural Resources (DNR)                                                                                           
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on the DNR fiscal note for SB 92.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
KRIS HESS, Operations Manager                                                                                                   
Division of Mining, Land and Water                                                                                              
Department of Natural Resources                                                                                                 
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 92.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:32:41 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  CATHY   GIESSEL  called  the  Senate   Resources  Standing                                                             
Committee meeting  to order at 3:32  p.m. Present at the  call to                                                               
order  were   Senators  Stedman,  Bishop,  Von   Imhof,  Coghill,                                                               
Wielechowski, and Chair Giessel. Senator Meyer was excused.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
        SB 158-OIL/HAZARDOUS SUB.:CLEANUP/REIMBURSEMENT                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:33:29 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  GIESSEL  announced  consideration  of SB  158  giving  the                                                               
Department  of Environmental  Conservation  (DEC) the  discretion                                                               
not to charge  homeowners the cost of technical  assistance for a                                                               
localized spill such  as with heating oil tanks.  She said public                                                               
testimony  was opened  and closed  on  February 2.  There are  no                                                               
proposed amendments. She found no comments.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  COGHILL moved  to report  SB  158, version  30-GS2583\A,                                                               
from  committee  with  individual  recommendations  and  attached                                                               
fiscal note(s). There were no objections and it was so ordered.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:34:49 PM                                                                                                                    
At ease                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
          SB 173-LIABILITY: PESTICIDES & UTILITY POLES                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:36:13 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  GIESSEL called  the meeting  back to  order and  announced                                                               
consideration  of  SB  173.  It would  limit  the  liability  for                                                               
utilities  using  a specific  pesticide  on  wood utility  poles.                                                               
Public  testimony  was opened  and  closed  on February  12.  The                                                               
sponsor asked for some clarifying  changes and that is the reason                                                               
for the proposed committee substitute.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  COGHILL  moved  to  adopt  CSSB  173(RES),  version  30-                                                               
LS1332\D, as the working document.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR GIESSEL  objected for discussion  purposes and  invited her                                                               
staff to review the changes.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:37:20 PM                                                                                                                    
AKIS  GIALOPSOS,   staff  to  Senator  Giessel   and  the  Senate                                                               
Resources  Committee, Alaska  State Legislature,  Juneau, Alaska,                                                               
explained:                                                                                                                      
        CS for Senate Bill 173 CORRECTED Explanation of                                                                       
              Changes from Version A to Version D                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1. Page 1,  Lines 1-2: Amends the title to  read "An Act relating                                                               
to  the  liability  of  a  person  for  the  release  of  certain                                                               
pesticides on  a wood utility  pole." [The title in  the previous                                                               
version read  "An Act relating  to the  liability of a  person or                                                               
the  state   for  the  release   of  certain   pesticides  during                                                               
application on a utility pole."]                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2.  Page 1,  Line  Six:  Amends Section.  1  (the proposed  newly                                                               
created AS  09.65.243) by removing  the words "neither  the state                                                               
nor" [The Committee  Substitute, in Change 4,  add the definition                                                               
of person given in AS  46.03.900. Because the state is considered                                                               
a  person under  AS 46.03.900,  the  references to  the state  in                                                               
Section. 1 were redundant and removed.]                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3. Page  1, Lines  10-11: Amends Section.  1 (the  proposed newly                                                               
created AS  09.65.243), by rewriting  paragraph (1) to  read "the                                                               
release resulted  during the installation,  use, or removal  of a                                                               
wood  utility pole  treated with  a  registered pesticide;"  [The                                                               
previous  paragraph  (1)  read "the  release  resulted  from  the                                                               
application of  the pesticide on  a wood utility pole  during the                                                               
installation, use, or removal of the utility pole;]                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:38:10 PM                                                                                                                    
4. Page  1, Lines  14-15: Amends Section.  1 (the  proposed newly                                                               
created AS  09.65.243) by  adding a new  subsection (b)  to read:                                                               
"For  the purposes  of  this section,  "person"  has the  meaning                                                               
given in AS 46.03.900"                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:39:52 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  GIESSEL  removed  her objection  and  finding  no  further                                                               
objections,  announced that  CSSB 173(RES),  version 30-LS1332\D,                                                               
was  adopted and  that  she  would set  it  aside until  Friday's                                                               
hearing, which will allow time  for amendments to be submitted by                                                               
5 p.m. on Thursday.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:40:55 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI  said he understood that  AS 46.03.822 deals                                                               
with  strict  liability, so  now  if  there  is  a release  of  a                                                               
pesticide the utility would be  strictly liable. He asked if they                                                               
are removing all liability including gross negligence.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
EMILY   NAUMAN,  Attorney,   Legislative   Legal,  Alaska   State                                                               
Legislature, said  she didn't know  the answer to  his questions,                                                               
but would  be happy to do  research on how AS  46.03.822 has been                                                               
applied.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:42:59 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked if the  sponsor is open to a provision                                                               
saying there  would still  be liability  for gross  negligence or                                                               
reckless conduct on behalf of an installer.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR MICCICHE answered that the  utility companies don't apply                                                               
the  pesticide.  The  poles  are  treated  in  the  manufacturing                                                               
process and the  utility company installs it. He  didn't think it                                                               
fits in this case.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI  said that was  a good point. He  recalled a                                                               
recent incidence in which hundreds  of wells were polluted. Under                                                               
strict  liability Flint  Hills is  responsible.  But this  swings                                                               
responsibility to the other side  of the pendulum and his concern                                                               
is that  utilities have easements  all across the state.  So, who                                                               
is responsible  if they are  eliminating liability for  a person,                                                               
defined  as  anyone? Who  is  responsible?  The manufacturer?  It                                                               
shouldn't be a  person who has absolutely no say  about where the                                                               
poles go. And Pentachlorophenol, called  "Penta," is banned in 26                                                               
countries. Private home owners are  being forced to put a product                                                               
on  their property  that is  a  known carcinogen,  that has  been                                                               
listed  by  the  EPA  as  being extremely  toxic,  and  that  has                                                               
contaminated water  wells in other  states. His reasoning  was if                                                               
someone was  grossly negligent, at  least keep the  liability for                                                               
the applicator or the manufacturer.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR MICCICHE said he was sure  there is a place in Alaska law                                                               
saying if gross  negligence occurs in the installation  of a pole                                                               
- penetrate  an aquifer,  for instance, not  with Penta  but with                                                               
some geologic  damage - this  does not release a  utility company                                                               
from  gross  negligence  as  they  carry  out  their  duties.  It                                                               
releases them from  the effects of Penta. In this  case, Penta is                                                               
what  is used  for power  poles in  the United  States. It's  not                                                               
banned in the U.S. In fact,  it is specifically exempted if it is                                                               
used under  the Federal  Insecticide, Fungicide,  and Rodenticide                                                               
Act (FIFRA).                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  GIESSEL  said  they  have  heard  that  a  pole  somehow                                                               
contaminated an aquafer for a shall  well in Vermont and asked if                                                               
he knew how  deep the poles are inserted into  the ground and how                                                               
deep are  wells are  that are  certified by  DEC. She  knows that                                                               
people in the  Hillside area of Anchorage seal the  tops of their                                                               
wells because  natural nitrates  seep in  from the  vegetation on                                                               
the surface.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:49:40 PM                                                                                                                    
RACHEL   HANKE,  staff   to   Senator   Micciche,  Alaska   State                                                               
Legislature, answered  that the utility poles  are inserted eight                                                               
feet below ground level.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI  asked if  the  federal  government or  any                                                               
other  state  provides  absolute  exemption  from  liability  for                                                               
damages caused by Penta in a utility setting.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR MICCICHE said he would have to get that answer for him.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:50:55 PM                                                                                                                    
KRISTIN  RYAN,   Director,  Division  of  Spill   Prevention  and                                                               
Response (SPAR), Department  of Environmental Conservation (DEC),                                                               
Anchorage, Alaska, answered  that she wasn't aware  of any states                                                               
or the federal government doing that.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI  said the one  thing Vermont did  was create                                                               
best management practices,  and he wondered if  the sponsor would                                                               
support  an amendment  that required  DEC  to come  up with  best                                                               
management  practices for  installing and  removal of  poles that                                                               
are treated with registered pesticides.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR MICCICHE responded that he expects the DEC to do that.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI  asked  if  the  sponsor  would  object  to                                                               
redefining  "person" so  that  the ones  that  are excluded  from                                                               
liability are the utilities and  the state but not the applicator                                                               
or manufacturer of the pesticide.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR MICCICHE replied that he  wanted to think that over until                                                               
tomorrow.  The utilities  and  the state  might  already have  an                                                               
exemption under FIFRA.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
He  said Rotenone  is an  insecticide/pesticide,  that the  state                                                               
uses to poison  entire water systems to kill  pike. When Rotenone                                                               
arrives in a  container it has a dangerous sticker  on it because                                                               
in a concentrated  form it is dangerous. It is  applied in a much                                                               
less concentrated form. The toxicity is  gone in five to six days                                                               
in spring  sunlight. It quickly  reaches its half-life and  is no                                                               
longer toxic.  He is  bringing this up  because they  are talking                                                               
about  permitted  use  for  a  very  specific  case.  The  Alaska                                                               
Department of  Fish and Game (ADF&G)  - when one talks  about its                                                               
risk to fish - uses Rotenone because it is not good for fish.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  MICCICHE said  in the  case of  utility poles,  Penta is                                                               
used very locally. When samples  have been taken, it remains very                                                               
close to  the pole and  in very low  levels. When it  is exempted                                                               
under FIFRA  it is for  a specific use,  which is related  to the                                                               
installation, removal,  and replacement  of power poles  that are                                                               
treated with a substance that is used all over the country.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:56:51 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI said there  are 250,000 poles across Alaska,                                                               
and  he agreed  that  it  is extremely  rare  for  someone to  be                                                               
damaged, but  he wasn't  aware of any  waiver of  liability under                                                               
federal law for  using these substances. He was  curious if ADF&G                                                               
had undertaken any  studies of the impacts of  Penta on wildlife,                                                               
humans, and the environment in Alaska.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. RYAN  answered that SPAR  is doing  a study right  now called                                                               
the  Contaminated  Sites  Program  on some  poles  in  the  Kenai                                                               
Wildlife  Refuge. The  results aren't  out  yet, and  she is  not                                                               
aware of  any other work being  done on Penta. She  said they all                                                               
rely heavily  on EPA work  when it  comes to pesticides,  and the                                                               
work they  have done on Penta  is very thorough as  well as being                                                               
accessible on line.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI asked  how far  the study  has gone  and if                                                               
they had  found anything.  Maybe they don't  have to  worry about                                                               
this issue.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. RYAN answered  that the contractor is  collecting samples now                                                               
and  the  data  is  being  coordinated  with  a  project  in  the                                                               
Department of  Transportation and Public Facilities  (DOTPF) that                                                               
is  adjusting a  road and  therefore, moving  some poles  nearby.                                                               
The samples  are being collected  and the results won't  be ready                                                               
for  several  weeks. The  question  they  are trying  to  answer,                                                               
knowing the product's toxicity through  the EPA, is if it behaves                                                               
the same way in the Alaskan  environment as it does in Vermont to                                                               
figure  out how  to  develop best  management  practices for  the                                                               
industry when the poles are used in wetlands.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:01:10 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI said  it  looks like  this  issue is  being                                                               
rushed and  he wondered  if that  was premature  in light  of the                                                               
fact that a  study is going on  right now. They don't  know if it                                                               
is permeating into waters or not. He urged them to slow down.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR MICCICHE  said he wanted  to clarify that there  has been                                                               
no damage. They are talking  today because a detectable level was                                                               
found in one  instance of unscientific sampling.  He welcomes any                                                               
research by  the department,  but the reality  is that  the state                                                               
has 250,000 poles,  and if something is learned, they  may have a                                                               
different  way of  handling poles  in  the future.  This bill  is                                                               
about existing exposure to the  ratepayers and the utilities that                                                               
provide those services in Alaska.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:03:05 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR GIESSEL set  SB 173 aside until Friday  with amendments due                                                               
by 5 p.m. tomorrow.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
         SB  92-VESSELS: REGISTRATION/TITLES; DERELICTS                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:03:18 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  GIESSEL announced  consideration  of SB  92.  This is  its                                                               
third hearing and the sponsor had done some work on the bill.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:03:54 PM                                                                                                                    
At ease                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:04:31 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR GIESSEL called the meeting back to order.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  COGHILL  moved  to  adopt   CSSB  92(RES),  version  30-                                                               
LS0481\J, as the working document.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR GIESSEL  objected for discussion purposes.  She invited her                                                               
committee staff to explain the changes.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:04:57 PM                                                                                                                    
AKIS  GIALOPSOS explained  the changes  in CSSB  92(RES), version                                                               
30-LS0481\J.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1.  Page 2,  Line  28:  Amends Section.  3  (AS 05.25.055(i))  by                                                               
removing  the  words "The  United  States  or." [The  words  "The                                                               
United States or"  are currently in existing law  and appeared in                                                               
the previous version of the bill.]                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2.  Page 5,  Line  10:  Amends Section.  9  (AS 30.30.010(a))  by                                                               
removing the  word "Docked." [The  word "Docked" is  currently in                                                               
existing law and appeared in the previous version of the bill.]                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3.  Page 5,  Line 20:  Amends  Section. 11  (AS 30.30.010(e))  by                                                               
changing the  proposed penalty from  a "B" misdemeanor to  an "A"                                                               
misdemeanor [The  previous version of  the bill proposed  to make                                                               
the violation a class "B"  misdemeanor. Existing law stipulated a                                                               
violation under AS 30.30.010 was an unclassified misdemeanor.]                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
4.  Page  5,  Line  27:  Amends Section.  12  (AS  30.30.010)  by                                                               
removing  the  words  "(a)  of" to  the  proposed  newly  created                                                               
subsection  (f).   [The  newly  created  subsection   (f)  to  AS                                                               
30.30.010  permits  the  Department   of  Natural  Resources  and                                                               
municipalities  to report  a violation  to the  Attorney General.                                                               
Whereas  the  previous  version only  permitted  reporting  of  a                                                               
violation to AS 30.30.010 (a),  the proposed CS permits reporting                                                               
of any violation under AS 30.30.010.]                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:07:49 PM                                                                                                                    
5.  Page 6,  Lines 4-6:  Amends Section.  13 (the  proposed newly                                                               
created  AS 30.30.015)  by rewriting  the  following sentence  to                                                               
read "On application  for injunctive relief and a  finding that a                                                               
person has  violated AS 30.30.010,  the superior court  may grant                                                               
the injunction.  [The sentence in  the prior version of  the bill                                                               
read "On  application for  injunctive relief and  a finding  of a                                                               
violation  or a  threatened violation,  the superior  court shall                                                               
grant the injunction.]                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
6. Page  6, Lines 14,  17: Amends  Section. 14 (AS  30.30.030) by                                                               
changing the days  a vessel owner has to  obtain authorization to                                                               
be exempted from a derelict classification from "30" to "14."                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:08:58 PM                                                                                                                    
7.  Page 7,  Lines 5,  8: Amends  Section. 15  (AS 30.30.040)  by                                                               
changing the wording to read  "the state agency or municipality."                                                               
[The prior  version of the  bill proposed using the  wording "the                                                               
state or municipal agency."]                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:09:19 PM                                                                                                                    
8. Page  7, Line 7: Amends  Section. 15 (AS 30.30.040)  by adding                                                               
the words "if possible." [The  prior version of the bill required                                                               
the state  agency or  municipality to  physically post  a written                                                               
notice of impoundment on the  vessel 30 days prior to impoundment                                                               
without exception.]                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
9. Page  7, Line  27-28: Amends Section.  16 (the  proposed newly                                                               
created AS  30.30.040) by  adding language  that reads  "with the                                                               
state agency  or municipality that  sent the notice."  [The prior                                                               
version of  the bill afforded the  vessel owner to file  a demand                                                               
for a pre-impoundment  hearing. But the previous  version did not                                                               
specify  to  what entity  the  vessel  owner  could make  such  a                                                               
demand.]                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
10.  Page 8,  Lines 9,  16-17: Amends  Section. 16  (the proposed                                                               
newly created AS 30.30.040) by  changing the wording to read "the                                                               
state agency or municipality." [Please see Change 7.]                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
11. Page 8,  Lines 21-22: Amends Section. 17  (the proposed newly                                                               
created AS 30.30.045) by changing  the wording to read "the state                                                               
agency or municipality." [Please see Change 7.]                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
12. Page 9,  Lines 9-10, 12, 16, 23, 25,  27, 29: Amends Section.                                                               
18  (the proposed  newly created  AS 30.30.055)  by changing  the                                                               
wording to read  "the state agency or  municipality." [Please see                                                               
Change 7.]                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
13.  Page 9,  Line 26:  Amends  Section. 18  (the proposed  newly                                                               
created  AS   30.30.055)  by  changing  the   reference  from  AS                                                               
30.30.097 to  AS 30.30.096. [This  is due to  subsequent proposed                                                               
newly  created  sections  being removed  and  renumbered  in  the                                                               
Committee Substitute.]                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
14. Page  10, Lines  19-20, 23;  Page 11, Line  1, 9,  12: Amends                                                               
Section.  20  (the  proposed  newly   created  AS  30.30.065)  by                                                               
changing the wording to read  "the state agency or municipality."                                                               
[Please see Change 7.]                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
15. Page 11, Lines 12-20:  Amends Section. 20 (the proposed newly                                                               
created  AS  30.30.065)   by  adding  a  new   paragraph  (2)  to                                                               
subsection (e)  that reads  "the hearing  officer shall  award to                                                               
the owner  attorney fees and  costs incurred in the  hearing; the                                                               
award shall be  made as provided by Rules 69,  79, and 82, Alaska                                                               
Rules and Civil Procedures." [The  prior paragraphs (1), (2), and                                                               
(3)  have been  consolidated  under paragraph  (1) and  organized                                                               
with subparagraphs (A), (B), and (C).]                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:12:38 PM                                                                                                                    
16.  Page 11,  Line 24:  Amends Section.  21 (the  proposed newly                                                               
created AS 30.30.075) by changing  the wording to read "the state                                                               
agency or municipality." [Please see Change 7.]                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
17.  The  prior  version's  Section.  22,  related  to  insurance                                                               
requirements,  is  removed  and  not in  the  proposed  Committee                                                               
Substitute. The following sections are renumbered accordingly.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
18. Page 12,  Lines 2, 22: Amends AS  30.30.090 (Current Section.                                                               
22, Prior Version Section. 23)  by adding the word "abandoned" to                                                               
the  list  of  actions  that  constitute  the  classification  of                                                               
derelict vessel.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
19. Page  12, Lines 8-24:  Amends AS 30.30.090  (Current Section.                                                               
22, Prior Version Section. 23) by  removing the words "and if" on                                                               
line  8.   This  removal  of  words   requires  reformatting  the                                                               
subparagraphs into paragraphs. [The  words "and if" are currently                                                               
in existing law and were in the prior version of the bill.]                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:13:58 PM                                                                                                                    
20. Page  12, Line  26: Amends  the title  of the  proposed newly                                                               
created  AS   30.30.095  (Current  Section.  23,   Prior  Version                                                               
Section.  24)   by  renaming  it   "Duties  and  Powers   of  the                                                               
Department"   from   "Derelict    Vessel   Prevention   Program."                                                               
[Conforming to  this change, the subsequent  new proposed section                                                               
AS 30.30.096 entitled  "Duties and Powers of  the Department" has                                                               
been  removed  and  absorbed  into  AS  30.30.095,  and  the  new                                                               
proposed   section   AS.30.30.097   entitled   "Derelict   Vessel                                                               
Prevention Fund" is renumbered is  now section AS 30.30.096 under                                                               
the Committee Substitute.]                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
21.  Page 12,  Line  27:  Amends the  proposed  newly created  AS                                                               
30.30.095  (Current Section.  23, Prior  Version Section.  24) to                                                               
add new language that reads "subject to appropriations."                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
22.  Page 13,  Line  14:  Amends the  proposed  newly created  AS                                                               
30.30.096  (Current Section.  23, Prior  Version Section.  24) by                                                               
changing the wording to read  "the state agency or municipality."                                                               
[Please see Change 7.]                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
23.  Page 13,  Line  25:  Amends the  proposed  newly created  AS                                                               
30.30.096  (Current Section.  23, Prior  Version Section.  24) by                                                               
changing  paragraph  (b)(4) to  read  "money  collected under  AS                                                               
05.25.096(a)(5) and (6). [The prior  version read "money received                                                               
by the  Department of Administration for  registering and titling                                                               
vessels."]                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:16:05 PM                                                                                                                    
24. Page 14,  Lines 17-18: Amends AS  30.30.170 (Current Section.                                                               
25,  Prior  Version  Section. 26),  by  defining  "state  agency"                                                               
rather than  "state or municipal  agency" in accordance  with the                                                               
changes  originating  in  Change  7  and  conformed  through  the                                                               
Committee Substitute.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:16:42 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR GIESSEL asked for a sectional analysis.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:17:21 PM                                                                                                                    
RACHEL   HANKE,  staff   to   senator   Micciche,  Alaska   State                                                               
Legislature, presented  the sectional analysis of  CSSB 92 (RES),                                                               
version 30-LS0481\J, as follows:                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Section  1: Requires  that a  boat placed  on the  waters of  the                                                               
state be titled, registered, or numbered.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Section 2:  Requires all  boats have a  certificate of  number if                                                               
operated on the waters of the  state for more than 90 consecutive                                                               
days or 60 consecutive days  for barges unless otherwise provided                                                               
in the chapter.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Section 3:  Provides exceptions  from numbering  and registration                                                               
for boats and barges.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Section  4:  Adds  new  section for  establishing  a  system  for                                                               
certification of titles.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Section 5: Inserts a new cross-reference.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:18:07 PM                                                                                                                    
Section 6:  Increases boat registrations for  a three-year period                                                               
from $24 to $30, adds barge  registration fee at $75 for a three-                                                               
year  period, adds  boat title  and duplicate  boat title  fee of                                                               
$20.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Section 7: Adds definition of "barge".                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Section 8: Repeals and reenacts definitions from AS 05.25.100.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Sections 9 & 10: Clarifies existing language.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Section  11: Raises  the fine  for abandoning  a vessel  from not                                                               
less than $500  to not less than $5,000 or  more than $10,000 and                                                               
lowers the  maximum term  of imprisonment from  six months  to 90                                                               
days.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Section 12:  Allows the  department or  a municipality  to report                                                               
violations to the  Attorney General in order  to enforce criminal                                                               
penalties.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Section  13: Adds  new section  allowing an  aggrieved person  to                                                               
file a  civil injunction with a  penalty of not more  than $1,000                                                               
per violation.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Section   14:   Allows   the  department   to   provide   written                                                               
authorization  for  a  vessel  to  be left  within  14  days  and                                                               
clarifies language.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Section  15:  Changes  section   to  pre-impoundment  notice  and                                                               
hearing. Requires 30 days' notice  prior to impoundment, requires                                                               
the impounding authority  to post notice on  vessel when possible                                                               
and online.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Section   16:   Adds    new   subsections   establishing   notice                                                               
specification  and  defines  the  procedure  for  pre-impoundment                                                               
hearings.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:19:31 PM                                                                                                                    
Section 17:  Adds new section  establishing requirements  for the                                                               
notice of disposition.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Section  18: New  section proving  clear guidelines  of procedure                                                               
for impoundment of a vessel by the state or a municipality.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Section 19:  Removes requirement that an  interested party taking                                                               
possession of a derelict vessel post security.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Section 20:  Establishes procedure for the  immediate impoundment                                                               
of derelict vessels that pose an imminent threat to safety.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Section 21: Adds  new section stating that  the individual owning                                                               
an  impounded vessel  is liable  for  all costs  incurred in  the                                                               
process.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Section  22:  Provides  situations   that  would  make  a  vessel                                                               
derelict.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Section  23: Gives  the  department the  power  to establish  and                                                               
administer the derelict vessel  prevention program which includes                                                               
education, outreach,  an advisory  council and creates  a program                                                               
fund which consists of money  appropriated from donations, vessel                                                               
sales  under this  chapter, federal  funds,  civil penalties  and                                                               
money collected from barge registration and titling of vessels.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Section  24:  Adds  "floating  facility"  to  the  definition  of                                                               
"vessel".                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Section 25: Adds definitions.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Section 26: Names this chapter the Derelict Vessels Act.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:20:38 PM                                                                                                                    
Section 27: Adds titling to Title 37.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Section 28:  Allows civil penalties  collected under AS  30.30 to                                                               
be deposited to the derelict vessel prevention program fund.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Section  29:  Removes  repealed sections  allowing  the  fund  to                                                               
remain without federal funding.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Section 30: Repealing sections of AS 30.30.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Section 31:  Transition language  allowing DNR  and DOA  to adopt                                                               
regulations.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Section 32: Reviser's instruction to change two headings.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Sections 33-36: Effective date sections.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:21:16 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  GIESSEL  removed  her objection  and  finding  no  further                                                               
objections, announced that version  J was the committee's working                                                               
document. Public testimony was left open.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:21:51 PM                                                                                                                    
KATHIE  WASSERMAN, Executive  Director, Alaska  Municipal League,                                                               
Juneau,  Alaska, supported  SB 92.  This  issue has  been one  of                                                               
their  top  priorities  for  over  two and  a  half  years.  Most                                                               
municipalities have access  to water one way or  another, and the                                                               
heart of many  communities is the harbor. When  it gets cluttered                                                               
up  with boats  it is  very  difficult for  municipalities to  go                                                               
through all the  work to deal with those  vessels. Usually owners                                                               
of the vessels  have problems long before then:  they quit paying                                                               
moorage or haul their boat onto a beach.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:23:38 PM                                                                                                                    
CARL  UCHYTIL, President,  Alaska Association  of Harbor  Masters                                                               
and Port  Authorities (AAHPA), Juneau,  Alaska, supported  SB 92.                                                               
AAHPA  has 43-member  harbors and  has  documentation from  other                                                               
communities outside their membership that also support it.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:24:37 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR STEDMAN  asked what tool  this bill would give  to harbor                                                               
masters that they don't currently have.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:25:47 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. UCHYTIL  said the  strongest argument he  could make  is when                                                               
the  M/V Challenger  went  down.  She [the  boat]  was no  longer                                                               
welcome  in the  harbor  and  as a  result  was  anchored on  DNR                                                               
tidelands. When  she sank,  the Coast Guard  came out  and opened                                                               
the  Oil Spill  Trust  Fund to  raise and  demolish  her (for  $2                                                               
million).  To this  day, the  Coast  Guard doesn't  know who  the                                                               
responsible owner is.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEDMAN said that ship should  have had a marine title at                                                               
some  point, and  the question  is who  owned it  at the  end. He                                                               
wanted to  know what  useful tools  SB 92  would provide  in this                                                               
instance.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. UCHYTIL said  he couldn't speak with great  authority on what                                                               
enforcement activity the Coast Guard  is taking on the Challenger                                                               
now,  but  the  Juneau  Harbor  system  has  other  instances  of                                                               
irresponsible  boat  owners  that   will  transfer  ownership  of                                                               
vessels on a bar napkin or  flip ownership with a handshake. Just                                                               
having a clear title would allow  the harbor master to pursue the                                                               
actual owner of  several derelict vessels in  their harbor system                                                               
today.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEDMAN  said he has  concept issues with this  bill, not                                                               
that derelict  vessels aren't  a problem.  He said  marine titled                                                               
vessels are  usually small, in  the neighborhood of 27  feet, and                                                               
are required  to have "AK" numbers  and to get a  sticker. If you                                                               
don't, you  get a ticket.  So, the  owner pays the  harbor master                                                               
once a month as a tenant, and  all of a sudden someone else shows                                                               
up to  pay the  monthly fee. He  asked what tools  he needs  as a                                                               
harbor master  here in Juneau  to ensure  that a person  who pays                                                               
the rent owns the boat.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEDMAN said  his boat is a "documented  vessel" and that                                                               
it is in the Juneau harbor now  where he is also required to have                                                               
an insurance document  to show that it is not  only insurable but                                                               
that  it  is insured.  So,  he  was  really struggling  with  why                                                               
organized  harbors  around  Alaska  can't  keep  track  of  their                                                               
tenants  -  like he  used  to  keep track  of  renters  he was  a                                                               
landlord.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. UCHYTIL  answered that "registered" doesn't  necessarily mean                                                               
owner, and he does have  difficulty with some harbor clientele in                                                               
establishing  clear ownership.  For  instance,  someone could  be                                                               
behind in  their rent and  when they  get kicked out,  the client                                                               
can  say he  sold the  boat to  someone at  the Pioneer  Bar last                                                               
night.  Lawyers  have  told  him   that  title  is  important  in                                                               
establishing ownership.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:31:12 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR STEDMAN said  the situation is similar to  used cars that                                                               
eventually  get "ditched  out the  road" and  the owner  can't be                                                               
found.  It is  an  enforcement  issue, and  he  wasn't sure  this                                                               
wouldn't set boats up with the  same solution. And at some point,                                                               
the unorganized municipalities need to be addressed.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR VON  IMHOF said this bill  has a fiscal note  of $589,000                                                               
(which  she assumed  was collected  by titling  registrations and                                                               
abandoned  vessel fees)  and asked  if  the duties  of this  fund                                                               
cease to  exist if the  fees are not  raised. Maybe they  have to                                                               
wait a  few years for  money to be  raised and then  this program                                                               
can get off the ground.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MARLA  THOMPSON,  Director,  Division of  Motor  Vehicles  (DMV),                                                               
Department of  Administration (DOA), Anchorage, Alaska,  said the                                                               
fiscal note for SB 92 is  based off the registration numbers they                                                               
currently have at  $20 per boat and 68,000  boats are registered.                                                               
That   would   generate    approximately   $1.36   million.   The                                                               
registration  period is  for three  years, so  they divided  that                                                               
number by  three and expected  to collect about one-third  of the                                                               
revenues for that the customer in the first year.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
BRYAN  HAWKINS,  Vice  President, Alaska  Association  of  Harbor                                                               
Masters and Port Authorities (AAHPA),  and Harbor Master, City of                                                               
Homer, Alaska, supported  SB 92. He noted the  Homer City Council                                                               
passed resolutions  in support of  this bill, as well.  Homer has                                                               
over the  years had to deal  with quite a few  abandoned derelict                                                               
vessels  in the  range  of 80-450  feet long.  A  local code  was                                                               
passed that helped with that.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
He explained  that cities have  clearly defined  boundaries. They                                                               
can write local  laws that can help people  make better decisions                                                               
to "move along" and can  legally impound and dispose, which Homer                                                               
has done many times.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HAWKINS  said currently  Alaska  doesn't  require titling  a                                                               
vessel, but  it does  require a  registration. Boat  builders say                                                               
people  who buy  vessels  from them  are  concerned because  they                                                               
don't actually get a title. This would fix that.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEDMAN said he has a 52  ft. boat and has a marine title                                                               
with the Coast Guard.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. HAWKINS replied that he  has Coast Guard documentation, which                                                               
is not a title.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:38:11 PM                                                                                                                    
RACHEL LORD,  Executive Secretary,  Alaska Association  of Harbor                                                               
Masters and Port  Authorities (AAHPA), supported SB  92. She said                                                               
state statutes  are outdated  and were written  in 1976  by DOTPF                                                               
and briefly  updated in 2013 to  open up authority that  had only                                                               
rested  with   the  Department   of  Transportation   and  Public                                                               
Facilities (DOTPF) because  of their historical role  as owner of                                                               
all Alaska harbors.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Through a  situation in Kachemak  Bay where two vessels  sank, it                                                               
became clear  that a  problem existed with  DOTPF being  the only                                                               
one with  authority to exercise  the chapter because  they didn't                                                               
have any mandate  to do so. So,  HB 131 opened up the  use of the                                                               
chapter to all  state agencies and municipalities.  That was just                                                               
a starting point.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
She explained that the AAHMPA  and others supported the formation                                                               
of an ad  hoc derelict vessel task force,  which she facilitated.                                                               
It met for  nine full days over  a year and a half.  They had the                                                               
entire "alphabet  soup" of  every state  and federal  agency, the                                                               
municipalities,  Senator  Murkowski's  office,  a  Bethel  Native                                                               
Council, and  some private  salvage companies  participating. The                                                               
group discussed  case studies in  Alaska, what is going  on, what                                                               
people are dealing with, what  the problems are in preventing and                                                               
managing  them,  what   people's  jurisdictional  boundaries  and                                                               
authorities  are, and  what  other states  are  doing around  the                                                               
country.  It became  very clear  that  a full  rewrite of  Alaska                                                               
statutes was a very necessary first step.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. LORD  said the group had  pro bono legal assistance  from the                                                               
municipal  law firm  of Birch  Horton Bittner  & and  Cherot that                                                               
worked  through the  problems everyone  agreed  upon and  crafted                                                               
solutions and a suite of tools to make some forward progress.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
In the case  of the M/V Akutan, before taking  legal action you a                                                               
vessel  has to  be  determined as  derelict  or abandoned.  Under                                                               
state  law now,  if  it's  derelict or  abandoned  there are  two                                                               
different courses  of action for  due process, hearings,  and for                                                               
noticing, and two  different paths of options  for disposition of                                                               
that vessel.  So, one  has to  choose carefully,  because current                                                               
statutes are layered with confusion and lack of clarity.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS.  LORD  said   SB  92  clarifies  not  only   the  notice  and                                                               
impoundment process for agencies  and municipalities, but it also                                                               
improves due process  for vessel owners. Some  would contend that                                                               
perhaps current  statutes are not federally  constitutional under                                                               
federal Admiralty law and do  not afford vessel owners the proper                                                               
amount of due  process that should be afforded  to somebody under                                                               
it, and SB 92 clarifies that.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:42:33 PM                                                                                                                    
To  answer  some  of  the  concerns  regarding  registration  and                                                               
titling issues, there  is no silver bullet. However,  under SB 92                                                               
federally  documented vessels  are not  required to  get a  state                                                               
title, but  they would be  asked to  register with the  state for                                                               
the increased  fee of $30  (from $24) if SB  92 passes.   That is                                                               
true in at least 26 other states, including Washington.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
One  of  the  problems  with  relying  on  federal  documentation                                                               
exclusively for tracking  of ownership is the point  at which the                                                               
owner  stops paying  for  documentation. And  at  that point  the                                                               
State of Alaska  doesn't have any document of any  of these boats                                                               
existing.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. LORD said if you have ever  owned a boat trailer and tried to                                                               
get  it titled  or registered,  you know  that it  can be  really                                                               
challenging. It is way easier to own  a boat in Alaska now than a                                                               
boat trailer,  because a boat  trailer is regulated as  a highway                                                               
vehicle.  Many contend,  including her,  that a  boat has  a much                                                               
greater potential public liability than a boat trailer.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
While  she appreciated  not wanting  to expand  that universe  of                                                               
registration with  added paperwork, Ms. Lord  said, however, this                                                               
is borne out  of very real problems being found  daily in Alaska.                                                               
The language  in SB 92 was  crafted in a  way to try to  help the                                                               
state  have some  more recourse  when it  comes to  determining a                                                               
vessel owner.  The fact remains  that with nearly  every derelict                                                               
vessel  has contention  over  who  owns it  because  of the  huge                                                               
amount of liability that is on the hook.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
She  said  SB  92  clarifies   liability  for  owners,  which  is                                                               
important. The  state wants  to hold  people accountable  that if                                                               
you buy a boat the easiest  dumping ground should not be state or                                                               
municipal waters,  and right now  it is. Neighboring  states have                                                               
dramatically cracked down  on their laws, which  leaves Alaska as                                                               
an easy target for dumping of boats.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS. LORD  noted the  DNR's zero  fiscal note  saying the  hope is                                                               
that some funds are raised  to help address this situation. Other                                                               
states  have found  that  a little  money goes  a  long way  with                                                               
consolidating efforts.  Right now, DNR,  as the land  manager, is                                                               
dealing  with  these  problems, spending  staff  time  and  state                                                               
resources on dealing with derelict  vessels throughout the state,                                                               
across the  coast, and across  the river systems. They  are doing                                                               
it in  a way that is  not consolidated or streamlined,  and there                                                               
is no  one to call if  a derelict vessel is  in an unincorporated                                                               
area or in state waters.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
She said  the language in  SB 92 is  permissive to allow  for the                                                               
department  to create  that program,  to allow  for them  to look                                                               
proactively at  this issue.  It does  not require  them to  do it                                                               
immediately. It would take time and resources.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. LORD summarized that this is  a national problem, and this is                                                               
the  direction  in which  other  states  are going.  The  federal                                                               
delegation is  aware of that, but  in the meantime, the  State of                                                               
Alaska is still back in 1976.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  STEDMAN said  derelict boat  inhabitants live  basically                                                               
week to week  and if their boat sinks, they  "play the hot potato                                                               
game." Some are drug addicts  and unemployed, but he could assure                                                               
people that  crime issues in the  harbors don't come from  the $2                                                               
and $3 million  boats. But he wanted to know  how identifying the                                                               
derelicts would help extract money from them.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. LORD  answered there is  no silver  bullet, but a  law deters                                                               
more  people  than  otherwise.  One   of  the  big  problems  not                                                               
explicitly addressed  in SB  92 is the  cradle to  grave problem.                                                               
She explained that  everything that is created has  a shelf life.                                                               
A  well-maintained boat  will operate  for decades  or more,  but                                                               
that  takes  money  and  resources  neither  of  which  are  ever                                                               
guaranteed. And they have not come up  with a plan for what to do                                                               
with  a boat  at  the end  of  its useful  life.  Right now,  the                                                               
default plan  is to  keep passing  it down the  line until  it is                                                               
with a person  who has the least resources to  deal with it. That                                                               
is a  problem. But raising  the awareness and clarifying  the law                                                               
and  liability of  an  owner  is a  big  step  forward and  helps                                                               
agencies and  municipalities legally  deal with  these situations                                                               
when they invariably arise.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
She  said  that  SB  92  under the  permissive  language  in  the                                                               
Derelict  Vessel Prevention  Program allows  for the  department,                                                               
with resources permitting,  to explore options for  the cradle to                                                               
grave  question  including  voluntary  vessel  turn-in  programs,                                                               
which have been  "hugely beneficial" and saved  states around the                                                               
country a  lot of money.  California is  one state that  has been                                                               
very successful. Alaska is different:  our harbors can't pull out                                                               
all  the boats.  We don't  have the  infrastructure, the  salvage                                                               
companies or  the ship breakers  to do  it. The people  in Alaska                                                               
have to look collectively at how to deal with it.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  STEDMAN  remarked that  the  organized  harbors are  all                                                               
managed differently. A useful thing  that Juneau does that others                                                               
don't do is  require insurance certificates, and in  order to get                                                               
an insurance  certificate, an owner has  to get a survey  and the                                                               
boat will  have to be fairly  sound to get it.  An uninsured boat                                                               
helps  tip off  a  harbor master.  It comes  back  to his  point:                                                               
knowing your tenant  and being responsive to who  you are renting                                                               
to. And knowing you don't have to rent to anybody that shows up.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:52:55 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. LORD said  people have dreams and those  should be protected,                                                               
but huge liabilities  are being created as those  dreams go awry.                                                               
Her wish is  that the state takes the  situation seriously enough                                                               
to provide  enough resources to  be able to enforce  mooring laws                                                               
around the state  where the liability is big  enough that someone                                                               
will think  three times before signing  a bill of sale,  and that                                                               
people  are more  circumspect about  buying a  boat because  more                                                               
liability  is associated  with it  than there  currently is.  She                                                               
also  pointed   out  that  some  municipal   harbors  have  great                                                               
ordinances and have  spent a lot of money  to protect themselves,                                                               
but that  means that  those boats  leave the  harbor and  moor on                                                               
state waters or they moor  in smaller communities that don't have                                                               
the legal  or financial resources  to deal with them.  The larger                                                               
communities will  continue to protect  themselves, but  the state                                                               
loses, and  the smaller  communities and  unorganized communities                                                               
are the losers  in that and the  protected one at the  end of the                                                               
day  is  the  person  who  made a  really  poor  choice  with  no                                                               
resources to buy a crappy old boat. They get to walk away free.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR GIESSEL asked the Department  of Natural Resources (DNR) to                                                               
comment on the fiscal note.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:55:13 PM                                                                                                                    
ED  KING, Special  Assistant it  the Commissioner,  Department of                                                               
Natural Resources  (DNR), Juneau, Alaska, said  the department is                                                               
working  on  a  fiscal  note, but  had  some  issues  surrounding                                                               
Senator Von Imhof's  question about the intent  of the department                                                               
and what  the costs  might be.  They interpret  the bill  to mean                                                               
that  to the  extent that  there are  funds available  within the                                                               
fund that  is being  created by  the bill,  and only  then, would                                                               
action  be required.  The fiscal  note is  being finalized  under                                                               
that interpretation.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  GIESSEL  asked  if  the   department  is  spending  a  lot                                                               
resources on this subject currently.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
4:56:32 PM                                                                                                                    
KRIS  HESS,  Operations Manager,  Division  of  Mining, Land  and                                                               
Water,  Department  of   Natural  Resources,  Anchorage,  Alaska,                                                               
answered that they spent considerable  time and resources between                                                               
herself,  Director  Brent   Goodrum,  Deputy  Commissioner  Heidi                                                               
Hansen, and others in terms  of coordinating with federal, state,                                                               
and local agencies to deal  with this situation. From August 2017                                                               
when Akutan  suffered problems with  its engines and the  time of                                                               
actual disposal, which  was in January 2018, a  rough estimate is                                                               
at least 250 hours of staff time was spent.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  STEDMAN asked  a  derelict vessel  is  sitting on  their                                                               
tidelands, isn't it a matter of  an appropriation of funds to the                                                               
Department of  Law. And  if this  bill is  only going  to produce                                                               
$100,000-200,000/year, it  would take  10 years  just to  pay for                                                               
the tug boat  that sank in Juneau last year.  He didn't think the                                                               
ends were  lining up  very well  outside of  large appropriations                                                               
from the legislature, with or without this bill.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  KING agreed  that a  lot of  money would  be needed  to take                                                               
immediate action, and those funds are not available.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS. HESS also agreed that was probably an accurate assessment.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BISHOP  suggested that the federal  Resource Conservation                                                               
and Recovery  Act (RCRA) addressed midnight  dumping of hazardous                                                               
materials, and  he was thinking  if a 400-foot barge  grounded on                                                               
state tidelands if  the state could access some  of those federal                                                               
funds to help with clean-up.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. KING replied yes; the Coast  Guard does assist in the removal                                                               
of contaminants  or environmentally  dangerous materials  and did                                                               
that in  the Akutan  case. But once  the hazardous  materials are                                                               
removed, that is where it stops: at the boat.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BISHOP suggested stretching it a little to take in the                                                                  
whole boat removal. He said they are trying to eliminate future                                                                 
liabilities and that would be going in the right direction.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
5:03:37 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR GIESSEL, finding no further comments, closed public                                                                       
testimony. She set SB 92 aside until Friday.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
5:04:05 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR GIESSEL adjourned the Senate Resources Committee meeting                                                                  
at 5:04 p.m.                                                                                                                    

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
Senate Resources - Updated Agenda - 2 - 14 - 18.pdf SRES 2/14/2018 3:30:00 PM
CSSB92- Version J - 2 - 7 - 2018.pdf SRES 2/14/2018 3:30:00 PM
SB 92
CSSB92 - Explanation of Changes - Version D to Version J - 2 - 12 - 2018.pdf SRES 2/14/2018 3:30:00 PM
SB 92
CSSB92 - Sectional Analysis Ver. J - 2 - 9 - 2018.PDF SRES 2/14/2018 3:30:00 PM
SB 92
CSSB92 - Fiscal Note - Dept Administration - 2 - 11 - 2018.pdf SRES 2/14/2018 3:30:00 PM
SB 92
CSSB92 - Fiscal Note - Dept Env Conservation - 2 - 9 - 2018.pdf SRES 2/14/2018 3:30:00 PM
SB 92
CCSB92 - Various Support - 2 - 9 - 2018.pdf SRES 2/14/2018 3:30:00 PM
SB 92
CSSB92 - Supporting Document - Additional Various Support - 2 - 10 - 2018.pdf SRES 2/14/2018 3:30:00 PM
SB 92
CSSB92 - Supporting Document - Letter Juneau Port Director - 2 - 11 - 2018.pdf SRES 2/14/2018 3:30:00 PM
SB 92
CSSB92- Supporting Document - Updated Letter AK Muni League - 2 - 12 - 2018.PDF SRES 2/14/2018 3:30:00 PM
SB 92
SB92 - Supporting Document - Letter Jakolof Bay Oyster Co - 2 - 13 - 2018.pdf SRES 2/14/2018 3:30:00 PM
SB 92
CSSB173 - Version D.pdf SRES 2/14/2018 3:30:00 PM
SB 173
CSSB173 - Legislative Legal Memorandum.pdf SRES 2/14/2018 3:30:00 PM
SB 173
SB173 - Testimony - Phil Steyer - Chugach Electric Assoc .pdf SRES 2/14/2018 3:30:00 PM
SB 173
CSSB173 - CORRECTED Explanation of Changes From Version A to Version D - 2 - 14 - 2018 .pdf SRES 2/14/2018 3:30:00 PM
SB 173
SB173 - Comments - Cook Inlet Keeper - 2 - 14 - 2018.pdf SRES 2/14/2018 3:30:00 PM
SB 173
CSSB92 - Fiscal Note - Dept Natural Resources - 2 - 13 - 2018.pdf SRES 2/14/2018 3:30:00 PM
SB 92
SB173 - Document - Penta Overview - EPA - 2 - 15 - 2018.pdf SRES 2/14/2018 3:30:00 PM
SB 173
SB173 - Document - Penta Mat Safety Data Sheet - Cumberland Electric Membership Corp - 2 - 15 - 2018.pdf SRES 2/14/2018 3:30:00 PM
SB 173
SB173 - Document - Penta Contam Drink Water from Utility Poles - Amer Journal Public Health - 2 - 15 - 2018.pdf SRES 2/14/2018 3:30:00 PM
SB 173