Legislature(2011 - 2012)BUTROVICH 205

01/23/2012 03:30 PM RESOURCES


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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+= SB 13 WAIVE PARK FEE FOR DISABLED VETERANS TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSSB 13(RES) Out of Committee
+= SB 24 SPORT FISHING GUIDING SERVICES TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
              SENATE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                        January 23, 2012                                                                                        
                           3:32 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Joe Paskvan, Co-Chair                                                                                                   
Senator Thomas Wagoner, Co-Chair                                                                                                
Senator Bill Wielechowski, Vice Chair                                                                                           
Senator Bert Stedman                                                                                                            
Senator Lesil McGuire                                                                                                           
Senator Hollis French                                                                                                           
Senator Gary Stevens                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Senator Cathy Giessel                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 13                                                                                                              
"An Act providing for the waiver of certain fees and charges in                                                                 
state parks for disabled veterans."                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED CSSB 13(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 24                                                                                                              
"An Act establishing  the Sport Fishing Guide  Services Board and                                                               
licensing requirements for  sport fishing guide-outfitters, sport                                                               
fishing  outfitters, sport  fishing assistant  guides, and  sport                                                               
fishing transporters; making  conforming amendments; allowing the                                                               
Department of  Fish and  Game to  collect information  on guiding                                                               
services; and providing for an effective date."                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD & HELD                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SB  13                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: WAIVE PARK FEE FOR DISABLED VETERANS                                                                               
SPONSOR(s): SENATOR(s) FRENCH                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
01/19/11       (S)       PREFILE RELEASED 1/7/11                                                                                
01/19/11       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
01/19/11       (S)       RES, FIN                                                                                               
03/21/11       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
03/21/11       (S)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/21/11       (S)       MINUTE(RES)                                                                                            
01/23/12       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SB  24                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: SPORT FISHING GUIDING SERVICES                                                                                     
SPONSOR(s): SENATOR(s) MCGUIRE                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
01/19/11       (S)       PREFILE RELEASED 1/7/11                                                                                
01/19/11       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
01/19/11       (S)       RES, FIN                                                                                               
02/07/11       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
02/07/11       (S)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
02/07/11       (S)       MINUTE(RES)                                                                                            
02/19/11       (S)       RES AT 10:00 AM BUTROVICH 205                                                                          
02/19/11       (S)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
02/19/11       (S)       MINUTE(RES)                                                                                            
02/21/11       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
02/21/11       (S)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
02/21/11       (S)       MINUTE(RES)                                                                                            
10/10/11       (S)       RES AT 9:00 AM Anch LIO Conf Rm                                                                        
10/10/11       (S)       PUBLIC COMMENT                                                                                         
01/23/12       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MICHAEL PAWLOWSKI                                                                                                               
Aide to Senator McGuire                                                                                                         
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, AK                                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented CSSB 24( ).                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
TOM OHAUS, representing himself                                                                                                 
Sitka, AK                                                                                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported CSSB 24( ).                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
GREG SUTTER                                                                                                                     
Alaska Charter Association (ACA)                                                                                                
Homer, AK                                                                                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported CSSB 24( ).                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
JOEL HANSON                                                                                                                     
The Boat Company                                                                                                                
Sitka, AK                                                                                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported CSSB 24( ).                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
STAN MALCOM, President                                                                                                          
Petersburg Charter Boat Association                                                                                             
Petersburg, AK                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported CSSB 24( ).                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
RICKY GEASE, Executive Director                                                                                                 
Kenai River Sport Fishing Association                                                                                           
Soldotna, AK                                                                                                                    
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported CSSB 24( ).                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REUBEN HANKE, representing himself                                                                                              
Fairbanks, AK                                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported CSSB 24( ).                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DICK ROHRER, representing himself                                                                                               
Kodiak, AK                                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Had lots of suggestions for more changes to                                                               
CSSB 24( ).                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DON "SMOKEY" DUNCAN, Alaska Private Guide Service, Fairbanks,                                                                   
Alaska, said he                                                                                                                 
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed CSSB 24( ).                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REED MORISKY                                                                                                                    
Wilderness Fishing                                                                                                              
Fairbanks, AK                                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported CSSB 24( ).                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
VIRGIL UMPHENOUR, representing himself                                                                                          
Fairbanks, AK                                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported CSSB 24( ).                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SCOTT EGGEMEYER, representing himself                                                                                           
Soldotna, AK                                                                                                                    
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported CSSB 24( ).                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
JIMMY JACK DRATH                                                                                                                
Kenai River Professional Guide Association                                                                                      
Kenai, AK                                                                                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported CSSB 24( ).                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
GARY AULT                                                                                                                       
Homer Charter Association                                                                                                       
Homer, AK                                                                                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported CSSB 24( ) with some reservations.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
DON WESTLAND, representing himself                                                                                              
Ketchikan, AK                                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT: Did not support SB 24, because it doesn't go                                                              
far enough.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
LARRY MCQUARRIE                                                                                                                 
Sportsman's Cove Lodge                                                                                                          
Ketchikan, AK                                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the original concept of SB 24, but                                                              
had concerns.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
KEN LARSON, representing himself                                                                                                
North Pole, AK                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed CSSB 24( ).                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MELVIN GROVE, President                                                                                                         
Prince William Sound Charter Boat Association                                                                                   
Big Lake, AK                                                                                                                    
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed CSSB 24( ).                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
HEATH HILYARD, Kulik Lodge                                                                                                      
Anchorage, AK                                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported CSSB 24( ).                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
PETE RAYNOR, Manager                                                                                                            
Kulik Lodge                                                                                                                     
Anchorage, AK                                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT: Did not support CSSB 24( ).                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SONNY PETERSEN, President                                                                                                       
Katmai Service Providers                                                                                                        
Anchorage, AK                                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed CSSB 24( ).                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
JIM ALBERT, Manager                                                                                                             
Brooks Lodge,                                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed CSSB 24( ) even with the substantial                                                              
changes.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
BUD HODSON, owner                                                                                                               
Tikchik Narrows Lodge (Bristol Bay)                                                                                             
Anchorage, AK                                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT: Did not support CSSB 24( ).                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHACO PEARMAN, representing himself                                                                                             
Kodiak, AK                                                                                                                      
POSITION  STATEMENT: Supported  CSSB  24( ),  but  he wanted  the                                                             
board to  be able  to limit participation  in specific  areas and                                                               
without  that he  didn't  know if  his  community could  continue                                                               
supporting it.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:32:22 PM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR  THOMAS WAGONER  called  the  Senate Resources  Standing                                                             
Committee meeting to order at  3:32 p.m. All members were present                                                               
at the call to order.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
          SB  13-WAIVE PARK FEE FOR DISABLED VETERANS                                                                       
                                                                                                                              
3:33:43 PM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR  WAGONER announced  SB  13 [27-LS0097\A]  to  be up  for                                                               
consideration. He recapped that he had  objected to the bill in a                                                               
previous meeting for discussion purposes.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  FRENCH   moved  to  adopt  Amendment   1,  [labeled  27-                                                               
LS0097\A.1] for SB 13.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WAGONER objected for discussion purposes.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH  explained that  this bill  helps waive  park fees                                                               
for disabled veterans.  There wasn't a lot  of controversy around                                                               
the  bill  except for  cabins;  the  concern that  Department  of                                                               
Natural  Resources  (DNR) had  was  that  if  there were  no  fee                                                               
whatsoever  a person  could  book a  bunch of  cabins  and if  he                                                               
decided not to go  to the cabin no one else would  get to use it.                                                               
Their use is very popular in the state.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
He  explained that  over the  summer decided  to charge  disabled                                                               
vets  50 percent  for a  cabin  so they  "have some  skin in  the                                                               
game," as  a middle  ground. It costs  them something  to forfeit                                                               
the  cabin and  the cabin  gets put  back in  the pool  for other                                                               
people  to use.  He said  essentially Amendment  1 does  that; it                                                               
puts a 50  percent rule in for  disabled vets who want  to rent a                                                               
cabin.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  WAGONER removed  his objection  and finding  no further                                                               
objections, announced that Amendment 1  was adopted. He opened up                                                               
public comment. Finding no comments  he closed the public comment                                                               
period.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:36:04 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR FRENCH  moved to report  SB 13 as amended  from committee                                                               
with  individual  recommendations  and attached  fiscal  note(s).                                                               
There were  no objections and  therefore CSSB 13(RES)  moved from                                                               
the Senate Resources Standing Committee.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:36:57 PM                                                                                                                    
At ease from 3:36:57 to 3:38:10 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                              
             SB  24-SPORT FISHING GUIDING SERVICES                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:38:10 PM                                                                                                                      
Due to technical difficulties the meeting was not recorded from                                                                 
3:38 to 3:49 PM. The following is a summary of what took place                                                                  
in that time:                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     CO-CHAIR WAGONER  called the  meeting back to  order at                                                                    
     3:38:10  p.m.  and  announced  SB   24  to  be  up  for                                                                    
     consideration. He said it was  held over from last year                                                                    
     and was put into a subcommittee over the Interim.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     SENATOR MCGUIRE,  sponsor of SB 24,  said Mr. Pawlowski                                                                    
     would  walk through  the proposed  committee substitute                                                                    
     (CS). She  stated there  were many  passionate concerns                                                                    
     and   they  are   addressed  in   the   CS;  the   most                                                                    
     controversial pieces were removed.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     SENATOR MCGUIRE  said that  some of  the owners  of the                                                                    
     lodges testified that their  population was aging. They                                                                    
     were  worried  about  recruiting new  people  into  the                                                                    
     industry  and  found that  it  was  too hard  to  train                                                                    
     residents and  thought they should be  allowed to bring                                                                    
     people  in  from  the  outside.  But,  she  stated  the                                                                    
     training  requirements weren't  removed because  Alaska                                                                    
     manages its fisheries as Alaskans  and it's up to us to                                                                    
     come up with a way to do it using Alaskan residents.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     SENATOR MCGUIRE  moved to  adopt the CS  for SB  24( ),                                                                    
     [labeled 27-LS0278\I], for discussion purposes.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     CO-CHAIR WAGONER objected  for discussion purposes, and                                                                    
     he invited Mr.  Pawlowski to review the  changes in the                                                                    
     CS.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     MICHAEL PAWLOWSKI,  aide to  Senator McGuire,  said the                                                                    
     CS  is a  result of  many concerns  he heard  stated as                                                                    
     well as  some policy changes. The  following excerpt is                                                                    
     a summary  of the changes taken  from Senator McGuire's                                                                    
     memo:                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
         Changes to SB 24 (27-LS0278\A) in CS SB 24 (27-                                                                      
                           LS0278\I)                                                                                          
     Please note that this analysis is not an authoritative                                                                     
     interpretation of changes to the bill. The bill itself                                                                     
             is the best statement of its contents.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     The following references are to the A version of SB 24                                                                     
     Title The following  changes were made to  the Title of                                                                  
     the bill:                                                                                                                  
     1. No changes.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Section 1  The following  changes were made  to section                                                                  
     1:                                                                                                                         
     1.   Inserted  new   subsection  (b)   which  expresses                                                                    
     legislative intent that the  funding for the electronic                                                                    
     systems  required  under section  6  are  to come  from                                                                    
     general funds.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Section 2  The following  changes were made  to section                                                                  
     2:                                                                                                                         
     1. No changes.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Section  3  Inserted  new subsection  3  inserting  the                                                                  
     Sport Fish Guide Services  Board established in section                                                                    
     4  to  the  list  of   Boards  and  Commissions  in  AS                                                                    
     08.03.01(c) that provides  for termination dates (2018)                                                                    
     and transition provisions upon termination.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:49:37 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. PAWLOWSKI next went to Section  4 (old Section 3) that is the                                                               
substantive  change and  said the  reference to  units throughout                                                               
this section have been removed.  New language was inserted in the                                                               
composition of  the board section  on page 2, lines  19-28. There                                                               
was  a   lot  of  testimony   about  the  interest   in  regional                                                               
representation on the board and that  one member of the board has                                                               
to  be  from each  of  the  Interior Southeast  and  Southcentral                                                               
regions. Testimony concerning the  commercial and sport fisheries                                                               
on page  3, lines 5-6,  spurred an  added requirement to  the at-                                                               
large public member that he  couldn't have ever held a commercial                                                               
fishing license.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:50:46 PM                                                                                                                    
A very  substantive change was made  in the duties and  powers of                                                               
the  board section  that  begins on  page 3,  line  16, and  goes                                                               
through page  4, line  26. This  was added  on lines  7-13; while                                                               
occupational  boards   interact  with   the  governor   and  make                                                               
recommendations,   industry  felt   that  the   Guide  Commercial                                                               
Services  Board  should  offer  some more  level  of  benefit  (a                                                               
substantial  policy  point).  So,   language  from  the  Minerals                                                               
Commission, which  is not  a licensing  board, was  inserted into                                                               
the  bill to  the effect  that  this board  would commission  and                                                               
prepare  a report  to the  legislature  and the  governor on  the                                                               
impact  of  sport fishing  on  the  state's economy.  (Typically,                                                               
occupational reports go to the  governor and don't go directly to                                                               
the  legislature.) Subsection  10,  lines 11-13,  are the  second                                                               
portion of that setting up a  timeline for when the report has to                                                               
be made.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:52:02 PM                                                                                                                    
Another substantial  point was in  response to concerns  over the                                                               
limited entry  provisions of the  original bill related  to guide                                                               
use  unit areas.  There  was  a concern  that  the sport  fishing                                                               
industry wanted to  see that the table in the  event that limited                                                               
entry regulations  are drafted. That  was the attempt on  page 4,                                                               
lines  20-22,  requiring a  regulation  that  has the  effect  of                                                               
limiting entry  to sport fish  guides to come through  this board                                                               
in order  to be  approved. He  said that  those are  major policy                                                               
calls that  came through  public input  and the  committee should                                                               
consider those carefully.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. PAWLOWSKI said  that new language was added on  page 4, lines                                                               
23-26.  Concern  was  brought  up with  the  requirement  for  an                                                               
examination; under  the direction  to the  board (the  goal being                                                               
that  this test  is available  electronically and  that a  person                                                               
that  fails the  test may  retake it)  the point  being that  the                                                               
purpose of the test should not  be to exclude participants in the                                                               
fishery, but to  guarantee a certain level  of knowledge relating                                                               
to the fish  and game regulations of the state  that the guide is                                                               
naturally assisting their clients in a program.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH  asked if a  guided client  now runs afoul  of the                                                               
fish  and game  laws  - if,  for instance,  the  guide takes  the                                                               
client into  a closed  area and  the client has  the line  in the                                                               
water - is he on the hook.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. PAWLOWSKI  said he preferred  to have the Department  of Fish                                                               
and Game answer that.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEVENS  asked the reasoning behind  immediately retaking                                                               
the exam.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR.  PAWLOWSKI   answered  that  the  guiding   community  wanted                                                               
assurances that an immediate retake  was not required but that it                                                               
was permissible.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  STEDMAN went  to  page  3, line  5,  and  asked if  that                                                               
language  means  someone  cannot  ever  have  held  a  commercial                                                               
fishing license.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. PAWLOWSKI answered yes.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEDMAN said  that that might need  looking into, because                                                               
a  five-year old  could have  a commercial  fishing license  in a                                                               
parent's boat and then be excluded for the rest of his life.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:56:10 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  STEDMAN asked  why  "or  in Canada  or  in Mexico"  were                                                               
included and not Brazil and Venezuela.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  PAWLOWSKI replied  that is  part  of the  language from  the                                                               
original task force. It had  to do with provisions under treaties                                                               
between the  US and Canada that  they were required to  accept as                                                               
part of commerce  under services. That issue has  not been raised                                                               
as  the  bill  has  moved  through and  therefore  has  not  been                                                               
addressed from the original version.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEDMAN  asked him  to point  out the  connection between                                                               
the sport fishing outfitter license  and the guide license. Would                                                               
the outfitter be the lodge?                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. PAWLOWSKI replied  that often it would be the  lodge, but the                                                               
intent is  to go deeper than  that and to include  people who are                                                               
renting equipment specifically for  sport fishing services like a                                                               
rod. Someone might be renting without being the lodge.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEDMAN  said he  wanted the ability  to tie  any illegal                                                               
guiding activity that is sanctioned by  a lodge from the guide to                                                               
the lodge. They have trouble  doing that currently. Sometimes the                                                               
guide works for the lodge virtually year-round.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. PAWLOWSKI  said it is  an incredibly important piece  of this                                                               
bill that is different from existing  law and is on page 13, line                                                               
30, through  page 14, line 11.  In subsection (1) [of  the CS] on                                                               
page 14,  line 2, the  outfitter transporter or guide  is equally                                                               
responsible  for violations  of regulations  under this  chapter.                                                               
The CS deletes  "assistant guides" from the  original bill. Since                                                               
assistant guides have to be under  the employ or supervision of a                                                               
licensed guide, assistant guides  were removed from that section,                                                               
since  the  onus  and  responsibility  in the  way  the  bill  is                                                               
designed falls to the licensee  that is employing or supervising.                                                               
He noted that this language may need to be tightened more.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:00:11 PM                                                                                                                    
Page 5, line 4, had a  "nitpicky" change. In the original version                                                               
the license was  called a sport fishing  guide outfitter license,                                                               
but  in  the interest  of  simplicity  it  was changed  to  sport                                                               
fishing guide. The  sheer number of licenses  was quite confusing                                                               
to the public; the guide retains  the ability to be an outfitter,                                                               
but it's still called a sport fishing guide license.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
On  page 5,  line  5,  in the  original  bill  all the  different                                                               
licenses  were  bi-annual.  The   departments  felt  that  annual                                                               
licenses were cleaner and easier to administer.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR.   PAWLOWSKI  said   one  of   the  deleted   provisions  from                                                               
requirements to  become a  guide was requiring  that a  person be                                                               
licensed  as  an assistant  guide  for  three  years and  have  a                                                               
certain  amount of  time within  the  fishery. This  was a  major                                                               
departure  from the  existing system  to  become a  guide in  the                                                               
State of Alaska. The public said  that was onerous and didn't fit                                                               
with business models.  The difference is the  requirement to pass                                                               
an examination  (on page 5, lines  17-18, the design of  which is                                                               
on page 3, lines 17-20).                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Several  requirements were  taken out;  an additional  one was  a                                                               
general requirement  that allowed the board  to adopt regulations                                                               
that  the  guide  licensee  had  to meet.  The  public  was  very                                                               
concerned about  a guide  board coming  up with  regulations that                                                               
the legislature hadn't envisioned, so  it has been tightened down                                                               
to only these specific items.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:02:41 PM                                                                                                                    
On page  6, lines  9-23, the master  guide license  provision has                                                               
been retained. Considerable public  testimony indicated that this                                                               
was  unnecessary since  it is  an elective  license. Part  of the                                                               
thinking behind it  was that in hunting a master  guide is a very                                                               
specific  thing  that  comes   with  very  specific  credentials.                                                               
Fishing doesn't have  the same type of  statutory construction as                                                               
what  would be  a master  guide. There  were concerns  about what                                                               
could  be  considered  almost   duplicitous  advertising  to  the                                                               
public. So, some form of  master guide clarification was retained                                                               
in the bill.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The provision  taken out of  the sport fishing  outfitter license                                                               
section  was the  requirement to  pass a  test, the  reason being                                                               
that the  outfitter lodge  owner might not  actually be  a guide.                                                               
The point  of the license  is to  identify people engaged  in the                                                               
sport  fishing  business so  that  ultimately  a logbook  program                                                               
might be  able to  be put  into their hands.  Since they  are not                                                               
providing  guiding  licenses the  public  didn't  feel that  they                                                               
needed to be guides.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEDMAN asked if the  outfitter has the responsibility of                                                               
the  guide and  if  the  guide has  the  responsibilities of  the                                                               
assistant guide.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. PAWLOWSKI  replied that  the outfitter and  the guide  may be                                                               
considered co-equal. Because  the prohibition on page  7, line 7-                                                               
9, says  a person holding  a sport fishing outfitter  license may                                                               
not provide  sport fishing guide or  transportation services, you                                                               
might have a  situation where there is an outfitter  who does not                                                               
ever operate as a guide, although it might be rare.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEDMAN  said his point  was that it might  be beneficial                                                               
to have the  outfitter know what acceptable behavior  is, so when                                                               
he is  dealing with other  guides or assistant guides  within the                                                               
industry, he  would be more  apt to know when  someone's behavior                                                               
is out of bounds.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR.  PAWLOWSKI  added  that  page   3,  lines  17-20,  contain  a                                                               
description of the test that the  board is required to prepare in                                                               
case they  decide to reintroduce  the testing requirement  to the                                                               
other licenses.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:06:51 PM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR PASKVAN  commented that  he thought Senator  Stedman was                                                               
focusing on what  happens if the outfitter employs  the guide but                                                               
the  outfitter  doesn't  need  to  pass a  test.  Then  you  have                                                               
theoretically  broken the  connection between  the guide  and the                                                               
outfitter.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. PAWLOWSKI said that is a fair  question, but in order to be a                                                               
guide and to provide the guide  services you have to have a guide                                                               
license. So,  an outfitter might  employ a guide, but  they might                                                               
also  not.  And if  they're  not,  they  would  have to  get  the                                                               
outfitter license.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  STEDMAN  said  he  was  trying to  make  sure  that  the                                                               
outfitter under  all circumstances  knows the  difference between                                                               
right and  wrong within the  industry, because a small  number of                                                               
lodge owners don't know how to treat the state's resources.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:08:37 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. PAWLOWSKI  said the next  substantial change is in  the sport                                                               
fishing assistant guide  license which goes from page  7, line 22                                                               
through page 8, line 26. Here  a change was made to the reduction                                                               
of 16 years of  age. You had to be 18 in the  original bill to be                                                               
a sport fishing assistant guide.  The reason that change was made                                                               
is a person 16 to 18 years  old could not qualify for Coast Guard                                                               
licensing, which is required on page  7, line 30, through page 8,                                                               
line 2.  You are required  to have a  Coast Guard license  if you                                                               
are in an  area that a Coast Guard license  is required, but they                                                               
have received  significant testimony  from people that  there are                                                               
areas of  the state  where 16  and 17 year  olds work  as walk-in                                                               
guides in the  summers, and there was an attempt  to give them an                                                               
opportunity to still remain in that type of employment.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
He reminded  them that an  assistant guide (page 8,  lines 25-26)                                                               
has to carry proof of  employment or supervision, which takes one                                                               
back to  the responsibility section  that says they have  to work                                                               
under a licensed guide.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
The generic requirement  in the original bill  (of all additional                                                               
requirements being  adopted in regulation) has  been removed from                                                               
the requirements in order to  get a license. The reasoning behind                                                               
that was to not  give the board the ability to  go too far beyond                                                               
what the  legislature expressed was  required to become  a guide,                                                               
assistant guide, outfitter or transporter.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
The next  section, Article 3, on  page 10, line 15,  through page                                                               
11, line 31,  is the enforcement section. It gives  powers to the                                                               
board  to enforce  certain specific  violations. A  couple things                                                               
have  been  removed from  this  section  as  a result  of  public                                                               
testimony. Originally  there were  provisions that  allowed board                                                               
discipline in the  event of a breach in an  agreement or contract                                                               
with a  client. There  were some  discretion-able actions  by the                                                               
board.  The language  was tightened  up to  specifically only  be                                                               
related to people convicted of a  violation of a state or federal                                                               
statute or regulations  related to sport fishing.  The public did                                                               
not want the  board to have too much discretion  right out of the                                                               
gate. He said current statutes potentially  have a gap in that it                                                               
is almost impossible  for the Department of Fish and  Game to not                                                               
give someone a license who is committing violations.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEDMAN  said he  wanted more  thought about  licensing a                                                               
person convicted  of a felony or  a crime of moral  turpitude. He                                                               
said there are  a lot of licenses a person  with certain types of                                                               
offenses can't have.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
4:14:10 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.  PAWLOWSKI responded  that  he might  ask  the department  to                                                               
define  that a  little bit  better. The  language was  made broad                                                               
specifically to  encompass laws relating  to and that may  be too                                                               
narrow  for Senator  Stedman's concerns  because  theft or  fraud                                                               
wouldn't be included in that.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  STEDMAN said  a conviction  of drug  trafficking is  not                                                               
desirable as a lodge operator.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. PAWLOWSKI said specific acts were  listed on page 12, line 1,                                                               
through page  13, line 29,  related to  guiding and do  not cover                                                               
the universe of issues Senator Stedman was referencing.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
He said that the enforcement section  on page 11, lines 8-10, was                                                               
added  at the  input of  ADF&G and  says if  the board  imposes a                                                               
disciplinary  sanction  under  this  title they  may  notify  the                                                               
appropriate state and  federal agencies; this just  refers to the                                                               
ability  to communicate  in case  communications are  required to                                                               
say  this  person is  sanctioned  and  may  be  trying to  go  to                                                               
different states.  The board  needs the  authority to  share that                                                               
information in statute.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:16:07 PM                                                                                                                    
He  said as  far as  the  rest of  the bill  goes, another  major                                                               
change was repeal under the  transporter section, on the old page                                                               
11,  that allowed  a sport  fishing guide  to personally  pilot a                                                               
plane. That ran afoul of FAA rules.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:16:38 PM                                                                                                                    
MR.  PAWLOWSKI said  the  other major  substantive  change is  in                                                               
section 6 on  page 17 through page 18, line  8 that changes "may"                                                               
to  "shall" for  electronic  reporting storage.  The final  major                                                               
changes  are in  sections 9,  10  and 12-15  where the  effective                                                               
dates were moved  to delay implementation for  two years. Because                                                               
this  was a  major change  for  the industry,  there was  concern                                                               
about it  being implemented  too rapidly  and the  public process                                                               
being  gone through  inadequately. He  listed the  effective date                                                               
sections.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:19:27 PM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR WAGONER opened public testimony.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
TOM  OHAUS, representing  himself, Sitka,  Alaska, said  he is  a                                                               
charter business and lodge owner,  and thanked Senator Wagner for                                                               
his efforts with the  new CS for SB 24 and  said he supported it.                                                               
Electronic monitoring  coming from  the general fund  rather than                                                               
license fees is a big plus  for the industry, he said, because it                                                               
decreases  the  fiscal  note  and   the  overall  licensing  fee.                                                               
Industry  supports  the  general  purpose of  SB  24  because  it                                                               
provides for  an industry  governed by  a board  of its  peers to                                                               
provide  a  platform  for increased  participation  in  fisheries                                                               
management. They have often had  concern that those managing them                                                               
do  not  understand  their  business   model  or  understand  the                                                               
regulatory  requirements  they  need   in  order  to  keep  their                                                               
industry  whole  and contribute  to  local  economies. It's  also                                                               
important  to get  their hands  around what  would be  non-guided                                                               
lodges so they  know what is really going on  in boats that don't                                                               
have a guide that people are paying to be in.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:22:17 PM                                                                                                                    
GREG  SUTTER, Alaska  Charter Association  (ACA), Homer,  Alaska,                                                               
mirrored  Mr. Ohaus'  comments.  He said  the CS  to  SB 24  will                                                               
really  help  the industry.  He  said  ACA couldn't  support  the                                                               
original  version and  that half  of the  members liked  the last                                                               
version. He would put this new  version out to the membership and                                                               
hopefully more  support and meaningful  feedback could  be gained                                                               
that would make  it more marketable and user  friendly for people                                                               
who want to come up fishing.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:24:22 PM                                                                                                                    
JOEL HANSON, The Boat Company,  Sitka, Alaska, said he operates a                                                               
couple of   150  ft. cruise  vessels that are  mother ships  to a                                                               
small  fleet   of  skiffs  and   that  each  of  the   skiffs  is                                                               
independently  licensed  as  charter  boat and  carries  its  own                                                               
logbook. He said  there is a huge difference between  some of the                                                               
business models that  operate in the charter universe  and his is                                                               
one. He  thanks all who worked  on this version because  it is at                                                               
least  workable and  much  different than  the  original in  that                                                               
respect.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. HANSON said the immediate retake  of the test is important to                                                               
his business, because  he has to rely on having  a licensed guide                                                               
on each  of the mother vessels  as well as a  number of assistant                                                               
guides operating the skiffs. He  might need an assistant guide to                                                               
jump in and  cover for someone who can't work  that day on fairly                                                               
short notice.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:27:42 PM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR PASKVAN asked  if he had a  definition of "independently                                                               
operated boats." He thought it  meant they were under independent                                                               
contractor financial arrangements.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. HANSON  replied that all  of their skiffs, which  are carried                                                               
on board  the mother  vessels, are operated  by crew  members who                                                               
are direct employees; his company doesn't contract with anyone.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  PASKVAN asked  what  "independently-operated" means  if                                                               
they are operated by employees.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HANSON  replied   that  they  often  go   off  in  different                                                               
directions;  so multiple  skiffs are  out at  any given  point in                                                               
time.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR PASKVAN said then that  they are all employees under the                                                               
law,   not  independent   entities  under   independent  contract                                                               
arrangements.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. HANSON responded that was correct.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WAGONER asked how his business works.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. HANSON  replied that  they do  week-long trips  between Sitka                                                               
and  Juneau. While  one of  the vessels  does a  turnaround on  a                                                               
weekend  in Juneau  the other  vessel  is doing  a turnaround  in                                                               
Sitka at the  opposite end of the trajectory.   When they start a                                                               
trip  they  meet  half-way  somewhere around  the  south  end  of                                                               
Admiralty Island. They have been doing this for 35 years.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WAGONER asked where his  guides and assistant guides are                                                               
hired from.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HANSON replied  that while  they  hire some  from Alaska,  a                                                               
majority of  them are  from out-of-state.  Their crew  members do                                                               
double service; they are guides  as well as licensed officers for                                                               
the big vessel. Because of the  level of license that is required                                                               
for operating  the larger vessels, they  specifically hire people                                                               
with  a  higher  level  license  to  run  them.  Their  operation                                                               
generally  is of  interest to  employees because  it provides  an                                                               
opportunity to  get good  qualifying sea  time on  larger vessels                                                               
for going up the ladder of command.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:31:01 PM                                                                                                                    
CO-CHAIR  PASKVAN asked  when it  comes to  the licensing  of the                                                               
business, how many types of licenses he needs to get.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HANSON  answered  that  The Boat  Company  needs  a  "pretty                                                               
substantial"  number. He  added that  they  need to  get a  sport                                                               
fishing business  license and all  the various licenses  that are                                                               
required by  the Coast Guard.  He added that both  mother vessels                                                               
are   inspected  passenger   vessels  covered   by  Coast   Guard                                                               
regulations.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR PASKVAN  asked if his  business has to get  an outfitter                                                               
license.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. HANSON answered no.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:32:39 PM                                                                                                                    
STAN  MALCOM,  President,  Petersburg Charter  Boat  Association,                                                               
Petersburg, Alaska, said he is also  the owner of a sport fishing                                                               
charter business.  He supported  SB 24.  He was  a member  of the                                                               
original stakeholder  task force formed  by the state  to discuss                                                               
issues concern the  sport fishing industry a few  years back. One                                                               
of the  things he  was concerned  about was  the no  licensing or                                                               
reporting  requirements for  the  unguided segment  of the  sport                                                               
fish industry  as well as the  absence of a single  body to bring                                                               
concerns or ideas  to. Task force discussions led  to the concept                                                               
of  a sport  fish guide  service board  similar to  the Big  Game                                                               
Guide  Services Board  and  to  what is  now  SB  24. He  thanked                                                               
Senator McGuire for  bring this idea forward and for  all her and                                                               
her staff's time in refining that  concept into what he thinks is                                                               
a good  vehicle for representing  the industry to the  state, the                                                               
legislature  and other  management and  regulatory agencies  that                                                               
they deal with  while also providing for  needed requirements for                                                               
the industry.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
RICKY  GEASE,  Executive  Director,  Kenai  River  Sport  Fishing                                                               
Association, Soldotna, Alaska  said they believe SB 24  is a very                                                               
good   step  in   the  right   direction   of  bringing   minimum                                                               
professional  standards to  the  guided  industry across  Alaska.                                                               
He  also said  they believe  the comprehensive  nature of  having                                                               
professional standards for guide  outfitters and transporters and                                                               
requiring  each  to  have  a   logbook  is  important  to  get  a                                                               
comprehensive view of the harvest  that is being taken throughout                                                               
Alaska. It's important  information for area managers  to look at                                                               
and see  trends. They support the  electronic logbook requirement                                                               
for the Department of Fish and Game.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
4:36:22 PM                                                                                                                    
REUBEN HANKE,  representing himself,  Fairbanks, Alaska,  said he                                                               
and his  wife operate a  fish camp on  the Kenai River.  He, too,                                                               
was on  the original sport fishing  task force that came  up with                                                               
this type  of suggestion. He  said the committee had  listened to                                                               
what other people  in the industry have to say  and he thinks the                                                               
CS to SB 24 is a great product.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:37:45 PM                                                                                                                    
DICK ROHRER, representing  himself, Kodiak, Alaska, said  he is a                                                               
master big  game guide  and has  been in  the sport  fish guiding                                                               
business since  1982 and he had  just completed two terms  on the                                                               
commercial  services board.  He encouraged  them to  reinsert the                                                               
authority for the board at some  time to identify guide use areas                                                               
and maximum numbers of operators per  area; not that it had to be                                                               
done right  now, but if that  authority isn't given now  it would                                                               
never happen. He  also urged them to develop  terms for contracts                                                               
between  guides  and clients  for  services  (like the  Big  Game                                                               
Commercial  Services Board  has) to  specify what  the client  is                                                               
paying for.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
He had some  question about the value of easy  retesting and said                                                               
the  Big Game  Guiding industry  thinks  that for  those who  are                                                               
registered,  have master  licenses and  can demonstrate  years of                                                               
involvement in the sport fish  guide industry, that a grandfather                                                               
license should  be part  of this legislation,  and the  same goes                                                               
for sport  fishing guides who  have been  in the industry  a long                                                               
time.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Also, on  page 6,  line 5, he  thought having  documents "readily                                                               
available" needed a  definition. And page 9, line  9, section (b)                                                               
could be  deleted, because that  language came from the  big game                                                               
side where it  had a purpose, but he couldn't  see any reason for                                                               
a transporter to have clients on  a boat with living quarters and                                                               
not have  a guide license  because the clients would  be fishing.                                                               
Also, related to  "sport fishing outfitter services"  on page 16,                                                               
section 8, he explained that on  the big game side a new business                                                               
has come  into play  in the  last few  years that  is essentially                                                               
unregulated,  called trip  planning  services,  and that  wording                                                               
should be included  under this definition as well  as someone who                                                               
provides camping  equipment. So, that section  would identify not                                                               
just  renting   fishing  rods  and  vessels,   but  also  camping                                                               
equipment.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:42:10 PM                                                                                                                    
DON  "SMOKEY" DUNCAN,  Alaska Private  Guide Service,  Fairbanks,                                                               
Alaska,  said he  opposed SB  24.  He said  he holds  a big  game                                                               
commercial  services  board license  and  SB  24 shouldn't  apply                                                               
north  of the  Alaska Range,  because it's  isn't needed.  It's a                                                               
state-wide solution  to a localized  problem along the  ocean and                                                               
along the  Kenai. He  advised them  to get  the list  of licensed                                                               
sport fishing  guides in  their communities and  and ask  them if                                                               
they support this.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
He said  SB 24 is  not good  particularly for interior  guides or                                                               
small town  guides. Specifically, he objects  to the requirements                                                               
under  getting  a Coast  Guard  license.  To  get a  Coast  Guard                                                               
license  you  have to  get  a  TWIC card  [Transportation  Worker                                                               
Identification Credential]. To  get a TWIC the  closest place for                                                               
him would be  Anchorage; all of the TWIC locations  are along the                                                               
coast. One of  his guys just renewed his license  and it cost him                                                               
two trips (you  have to go in person twice)  and cost him $3,000.                                                               
He said  the Coast Guard  has no presence  in the Interior  or on                                                               
the rivers  north of  the Alaska Range,  and they  shouldn't have                                                               
jurisdiction  on waters  controlled by  the state  or where  they                                                               
have no aids to navigation or patrols.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. DUNCAN said he believes SB  24 needs a specific exemption for                                                               
big  game  guides who  may  allow  a  contracted hunter  to  fish                                                               
incidentally  during  the hunt.  He  also  suggested removing  an                                                               
insurance   requirement  because   Alaska   law  currently   says                                                               
recreation  service providers  are exempt  from liability  except                                                               
for gross  negligence -  and gross negligence  is denied  on most                                                               
policies.  So,  they get  to  pay  for  no coverage.  "Most  land                                                               
owners, if they  allow you to be on their  property, are going to                                                               
require something;  let them require  it. This bill  doesn't need                                                               
it," he said.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
He pointed  out a  loophole in the  Big Game  Commercial Services                                                               
Board.  They have  a transporter  license; those  are one  person                                                               
holding one license but they  may employ any number of "assistant                                                               
transporters"  that  haven't  been   vetted  and  haven't  passed                                                               
anything  and pay  no license  fees. He  thought this  bill would                                                               
require everyone to have a license.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WAGONER asked him to send his comments to his office.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
4:46:33 PM                                                                                                                    
REED  MORISKY, Wilderness  Fishing, Fairbanks,  Alaska, supported                                                               
SB 24.  He said  he was  one of the  original task  force members                                                               
that helped  formulate this concept  and he  wants to be  part of                                                               
managing his own industry.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
VIRGIL UMPHENOUR,  representing himself, Fairbanks,  Alaska, said                                                               
when he was  on the Board of  Fisheries they tried to  do this 15                                                               
years ago  and Senator Halford killed  it then. He is  in support                                                               
of SB 24. He explained that  NAFTA stands for North American Free                                                               
Trade Agreement  and that is  why it has to  be in the  bill. The                                                               
board wanted  to do this  15 years ago  because of the  number of                                                               
European-owned  lodges that  are a  pure extraction  economy with                                                               
zero conservation ethic.  But like Mr. Duncan and  Mr. Rohrer, he                                                               
is a master big game guide and when  he took his test to become a                                                               
registered guide  a long time ago,  about 10 percent of  the test                                                               
was  on  sport fishing.  "To  leave  us  out  and then  have  the                                                               
troopers  harassing  us  and  have  us have  to  go  through  two                                                               
different  systems  is  absurd,"  he  said  and  they  should  be                                                               
grandfathered in.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
He  related that  when  the  board had  its  meetings, they  were                                                               
state-wide, and the  large lodge owners were  100 percent against                                                               
this. So, he  asked them why they didn't hire  local people. They                                                               
said local  people won't work. So,  he went to the  University of                                                               
Alaska,  Fairbanks  and  Anchorage,  job  placement  offices  for                                                               
students and found  that no lodge had ever asked  any of them for                                                               
any  Alaskan resident  college students  to work  for them.  It's                                                               
because they're too  cheap he stated, and they don't  want to pay                                                               
anything - unlike  all the registered and master  guides that pay                                                               
their employees at least $250/day to work guiding.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  WAGONER  said  he was  also  seriously  thinking  about                                                               
putting  in a  bill  that restricts  shipping  personal use  fish                                                               
outside  the State  of  Alaska,  since it's  supposed  to be  for                                                               
family use.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. UMPHENOUR said he would support that.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SCOTT EGGEMEYER, representing himself,  Soldotna, Alaska, said he                                                               
supported  SB  24.  He  thanked   Senator  McGuire's  office  for                                                               
continuing to  work on  this issue  and to  make it  palatable to                                                               
everyone involved.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
4:50:36 PM                                                                                                                    
JIMMY  JACK DRATH,  Kenai River  Professional Guide  Association,                                                               
Kenai,  Alaska,  said  he  had  been guiding  for  16  years  and                                                               
supported  SB 24.  He said  the Kenai  River has  had an  exam in                                                               
place  for  quite a  while  and  an  association that  is  fairly                                                               
strong. They  have seen a  lot more professionalism on  the river                                                               
over  the   past  few  years.   He  specifically   supported  the                                                               
electronic  logbooks and  said  his hope  is  that this  industry                                                               
would become more  professional in the future.  He commented that                                                               
he is an outfitter and hires five  to six guys in a season and he                                                               
requires  them  to   take  an  exam  that  he   also  gives  them                                                               
personally, believing  that he  has to know  what his  guides are                                                               
doing out there.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:52:23 PM                                                                                                                    
GARY AULT,  Homer Charter  Association, Homer,  Alaska, supported                                                               
SB  24  with some  reservations.  One  was  how the  state  could                                                               
require halibut  charters to get  licenses when they  are fishing                                                               
in federal waters  and the Coast Guard requires  a certain number                                                               
of deck  hands depending on  the number  of people. Are  the deck                                                               
hands  assistant  guides? He  said  keeping  a crew  through  the                                                               
summer  is difficult  at best  and there  will be  an issue  with                                                               
keeping boats manned properly. But,  he said, electronic logbooks                                                               
are  long overdue  since  they  have to  record  every fish  they                                                               
touch.  He urged  them  to do  everything they  can  to make  the                                                               
provisions more user friendly.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
4:55:04 PM                                                                                                                    
DON WESTLAND,  representing himself,  Ketchikan, Alaska,  said he                                                               
did  not support  SB 24,  because it  doesn't go  far enough.  It                                                               
doesn't do what  the board asked them to do.  It doesn't restrict                                                               
any growth in the industry, for  one thing. Robin Taylor tried to                                                               
come up  with a limited entry  program back in the  '80s, and the                                                               
state did a study in '92 to  outline how to get them into limited                                                               
entry.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
He  said there  is a  suggestion that  people who  organize sport                                                               
fishing trips should  hold a license, but that  would mean cruise                                                               
ships vendors  and travel  agents from down  south, too.  He also                                                               
felt this was  "kind of a money  grab" as he already  pays a lot.                                                               
As   a  commercial   fisherman,   he  would   be  excluded   from                                                               
participating on the board - even if he sold his permits.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
He didn't  support exempting the  Kenai River guides  from taking                                                               
the test  (page 20) and said  "everybody needs to be  into this."                                                               
If big game operators are going  to be grandfathered in, he, as a                                                               
sport  fishing guide  needs to  be grandfathered  in as  a master                                                               
hunting guide.  He summarized that  he had been in  this business                                                               
since  1986 and  considers himself  a person  who has  a business                                                               
that is  not worth anything  unless there is something  that will                                                               
limit the  growth of the  guided sport industry. That  means some                                                               
type of limited entry or restrictions on guide licenses.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WAGONER  said SB 24  doesn't address  salmon chartering,                                                               
but  the  federal  government has  pretty  well  already  limited                                                               
halibut charters.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. WESTLAND added that the state  is creating two types of guide                                                               
services.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  WAGONER said  he didn't  disagree and  that they  still                                                               
need to  pursue something  like that, because  the Kenai  and the                                                               
Kasilof Rivers are getting to be pretty crowded.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
5:00:14 PM                                                                                                                    
LARRY MCQUARRIE, Sportsman's Cove  Lodge, Ketchikan, Alaska, said                                                               
he employees about  32 people in-season and  contributes about $2                                                               
million to the  Ketchikan economy each year. He said  he has been                                                               
very active in  fisheries politics, mostly on  halibut issues. He                                                               
said he  earns all  of his living  fishing both  commercially and                                                               
sport fishing. He said has serious  issues with SB 24 although in                                                               
general he  supports the original concept.  Originally he thought                                                               
it was  leading to  the process  of limited  entry and  this bill                                                               
doesn't do  that. It  doesn't limit vessels  or guides,  which is                                                               
what has  to happen. Basically  you pay a  fee and take  the exam                                                               
enough times to pass it.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
The  composition of  the board  concerned  him also.  One of  the                                                               
other stated intents  of the bill was to provide  a unified sport                                                               
fishing voice  that could  speak for the  industry, but  the nine                                                               
members of  the board are very  diverse and it even  includes two                                                               
people who  are not members of  the industry. They have  tried in                                                               
the past to build a  state-wide organization to encompass all the                                                               
various  sport fish  entities  throughout the  state  - like  the                                                               
Alaska Sport  Fish Council that  collapsed because  they couldn't                                                               
coalesce over a unified position.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
5:04:04 PM                                                                                                                    
KEN  LARSON,  North  Pole,  Alaska, said  he  still  opposed  the                                                               
present form of SB 24 even though  it had come a long way through                                                               
the  process. He  disagreed with  it because  it creates  another                                                               
different bureaucracy  that has to be  funded and fed -  and they                                                               
have a bad  habit of growing. It's a  duplication of requirements                                                               
in most cases.  He objects to "one size fits  all." He noted that                                                               
he had  been a  small lodge  and charter  operator out  of Valdez                                                               
since 1984.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
5:05:16 PM                                                                                                                    
MELVIN  GROVE,  President,  Prince  William  Sound  Charter  Boat                                                               
Association, Big Lake, Alaska, said he  opposed SB 24. He said he                                                               
is a  board member  of the Alaska  Outdoor Council,  president of                                                               
the Alaska  Outdoor Access Alliance  and vice chair of  the MatSu                                                               
Valley Fish and Game Advisory  Committee. When the original guide                                                               
license  fee  was scheduled  to  sunset,  his complaint  was  why                                                               
individual  operators should  pay the  tax to  cover the  logbook                                                               
program  when the  state accepted  this  responsibility from  the                                                               
federal government. It's ironic  that the state legislative legal                                                               
staff is recommending the state use  general funds to pay for the                                                               
electronic logbook program now.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
He said  SB 24 doesn't  solve any  problems and that  "it's being                                                               
pushed  by friends  who fish  with friends  on the  Kenai River."                                                               
And while  he sympathizes with  the overcrowding issue,  adding a                                                               
bureaucracy doesn't  solve that problem. He  suggested requesting                                                               
the  governor   to  designate  one   more  sport  and   one  more                                                               
subsistence user  to the North  Pacific Fisheries Council  as put                                                               
forth in HCR 13.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
5:08:42 PM                                                                                                                    
HEATH  HILYARD,  Kulik Lodge,  thanked  Senator  McGuire and  her                                                               
staff in  crafting the CS and  said he supported SB  24. A number                                                               
of  changes made  it more  palatable to  even some  opponents. He                                                               
added  on behalf  of the  Southeast  Alaska Guides  Organization,                                                               
that they are  committed to continuing the  discussion with other                                                               
people throughout the industry and  facilitating those talks with                                                               
Senator  McGuire's  office.  He   said  the  development  of  the                                                               
electronic  logbook through  general  funds was  a very  positive                                                               
move forward.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
5:10:13 PM                                                                                                                    
PETE  RAYNOR, Manager,  Kulik Lodge,  Anchorage, Alaska,  thanked                                                               
Senator McGuire, her staff and  the committee for making the many                                                               
changes  in SB  24,  but he  said  he still  didn't  like it.  It                                                               
doesn't accomplish  anything good for the  industry. Local issues                                                               
can  be dealt  with in  their area;  one size  fits all  "doesn't                                                               
fit." He said  Bristol Bay is a highly competitive  place, but he                                                               
doesn't fear his competition; he fears the government.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SONNY   PETERSEN,  President,   Katmai   Service  Providers,   an                                                               
organization  of  both  operators  that do  bear  viewing,  sport                                                               
fishing and others that operate  in Katmai National Park, said he                                                               
operates Katmai Land Inc., Katmai  Air, Kulik Lodge, Brooks Lodge                                                               
and  Grosvenor  Lodge  in  Katmai   National  Park.  He  said  he                                                               
appreciates  that their  testimony  was listened  to, because  as                                                               
written the  bill would  have put  them out  of business.  But he                                                               
still  can't support  it.  It  places an  undue  burden on  lodge                                                               
owners and  besides there is  no problem with the  resources that                                                               
this bill  solves. No  one is suggesting  reducing bag  limits or                                                               
continuing the logbook program. It's about limiting commerce.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
5:15:11 PM                                                                                                                    
JIM ALBERT,  Manager, Brooks  Lodge, said he  opposed SB  24 even                                                               
though there  has been substantial changes  to it. He said  it is                                                               
still  overly burdensome  and he  didn't see  the need  to create                                                               
another  government agency  to regulate  their  industry that  is                                                               
already heavily regulated.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
BUD  HODSON,   owner,  Tikchik   Narrows  Lodge   (Bristol  Bay),                                                               
Anchorage,  Alaska,  said  he  had  been  in  the  sport  fishing                                                               
business over  30 years  and served  four years  on the  Board of                                                               
Fisheries.  He   chaired  the  guide  charter   task  force  that                                                               
developed the language that is  law now. He said it's unfortunate                                                               
how they got  to this point, because when the  task force came up                                                               
with a guide  board, they wanted it to limit  entry, halve areas,                                                               
have tests  for different  areas and  to limit  how many  areas a                                                               
guide  could be  in, pretty  much  like the  Big Game  Commercial                                                               
Services Board. This bill doesn't  limit entry, halve areas, test                                                               
assistant guides or test people  for different areas of the state                                                               
- there  is one generic test  - so he questioned  whether a nine-                                                               
member guide board was even needed.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
5:17:37 PM                                                                                                                    
CHACO PEARMAN, representing himself,  Kodiak, Alaska, said he was                                                               
a member  of the  original task  force that  helped come  up with                                                               
this board and he thanked Senator  McGuire for all her work. Last                                                               
time that he  testified he questioned what the fees  would be and                                                               
he  still had  concerns about  funding  for the  purpose of  this                                                               
board. He thought the outfitter test  needed to be put back in as                                                               
well as the ability for the  board to limit use in specific areas                                                               
and have specific  tests for specific areas. Otherwise  he is not                                                               
sure what  the purpose of  the testing is.  To be able  to retest                                                               
immediately  doesn't seem  to validate  someone's qualifications;                                                               
it's a  little too easy. He  said he did support  SB 24, however,                                                               
but he  wanted the  board to  be able  to limit  participation in                                                               
specific areas and  without that he didn't know  if his community                                                               
could continue supporting it.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR WAGONER closed public comment and held SB 24.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
5:20:55 PM                                                                                                                    
Finding no  further business  to come  before the  committee, Co-                                                               
Chair Paskvan  adjourned the Senate Resources  Standing Committee                                                               
meeting at 5:20 p.m.                                                                                                            

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
SB013 Sponsor Statement.pdf SRES 3/21/2011 3:30:00 PM
SRES 1/23/2012 3:30:00 PM
SB 13
SB013 Support Documents-State Parks ADA Facilities.pdf SRES 3/21/2011 3:30:00 PM
SRES 1/23/2012 3:30:00 PM
SB 13
SB013 Support Documents-Related Statutes.pdf SRES 3/21/2011 3:30:00 PM
SRES 1/23/2012 3:30:00 PM
SB 13
SB013 Support Documents-State Park Fees.pdf SRES 3/21/2011 3:30:00 PM
SRES 1/23/2012 3:30:00 PM
SB 13
SB013 ver A.pdf SRES 3/21/2011 3:30:00 PM
SRES 1/23/2012 3:30:00 PM
SB 13
SB013 Hearing Request.pdf SRES 3/21/2011 3:30:00 PM
SRES 1/23/2012 3:30:00 PM
SB 13
SB013 Sectional Analysis.pdf SRES 3/21/2011 3:30:00 PM
SRES 1/23/2012 3:30:00 PM
SB 13
SB13_Fiscal Note_DNR-PM-3-18-11.pdf SRES 3/21/2011 3:30:00 PM
SRES 1/23/2012 3:30:00 PM
SB 13
SB 13 Amendment A1 1-19-12.pdf SRES 1/23/2012 3:30:00 PM
SB 13
SB 13 Minutes March 21, 2011.pdf SRES 1/23/2012 3:30:00 PM
SB 13
SB 24 Overview 1-20-12.pdf SRES 1/23/2012 3:30:00 PM
SB 24
DRAFT CS SB 24 version I.pdf SRES 1/23/2012 3:30:00 PM
SB 24
Changes to SB 24 in DRAFT CS SB 24 Version I.pdf SRES 1/23/2012 3:30:00 PM
SB 24