Legislature(2007 - 2008)BUTROVICH 205

03/10/2008 03:30 PM RESOURCES

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-- Testimony <Time Limit May Be Set> --
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
              SENATE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                         March 10, 2008                                                                                         
                           3:46 p.m.                                                                                            
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
Senator Charlie Huggins, Chair                                                                                                  
Senator Lyda Green                                                                                                              
Senator Lesil McGuire                                                                                                           
Senator Gary Stevens                                                                                                            
Senator Bill Wielechowski                                                                                                       
Senator Thomas Wagoner                                                                                                          
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
Senator Bert Stedman, Vice Chair                                                                                                
OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT                                                                                                     
Representative Jay Ramras                                                                                                       
Representative Craig Johnson                                                                                                    
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
SENATE BILL NO. 214                                                                                                             
"An Act  relating to big  game hunting by nonresident  members of                                                               
the military service  and their dependents; and  providing for an                                                               
effective date."                                                                                                                
     HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                             
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 267(RES)                                                                                                  
"An  Act relating  to authorizing  the state  to join  with other                                                               
states  entering into  the Wildlife  Violator Compact;  excluding                                                               
commercial fishing and big game  commercial hunting services from                                                               
the provisions  of the compact;  and directing the  initiation of                                                               
civil actions to revoke appropriate  licenses in this state based                                                               
on a licensee's violation of or  failure to comply with the terms                                                               
of a wildlife  resource citation issued in another  state that is                                                               
a party to the compact."                                                                                                        
     HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                             
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
BILL: SB 214                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: HUNTING BY MILITARY, COAST GD., DEPENDENTS                                                                         
SPONSOR(s): SENATOR(s) HUGGINS                                                                                                  
01/16/08       (S)       PREFILE RELEASED 1/4/08                                                                                


01/16/08 (S) RES 02/27/08 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205 02/27/08 (S) Heard & Held 02/27/08 (S) MINUTE(RES) 03/10/08 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205 BILL: HB 267 SHORT TITLE: WILDLIFE VIOLATOR COMPACT SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) JOHNSON

01/04/08 (H) PREFILE RELEASED 1/4/08


01/15/08 (H) RES, FIN

01/18/08 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124

01/18/08 (H) Heard & Held

01/18/08 (H) MINUTE(RES)

01/28/08 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124

01/28/08 (H) Heard & Held

01/28/08 (H) MINUTE(RES) 02/06/08 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124 02/06/08 (H) Moved CSHB 267(RES) Out of Committee 02/06/08 (H) MINUTE(RES) 02/08/08 (H) RES RPT CS(RES) NT 4DP 2NR 1AM 02/08/08 (H) DP: SEATON, FAIRCLOUGH, GATTO, JOHNSON 02/08/08 (H) NR: GUTTENBERG, EDGMON 02/08/08 (H) AM: KAWASAKI 02/19/08 (H) FIN AT 1:30 PM HOUSE FINANCE 519 02/19/08 (H) Moved CSHB 267(RES) Out of Committee 02/19/08 (H) MINUTE(FIN) 02/20/08 (H) FIN RPT CS(RES) NT 8DP 1NR 02/20/08 (H) DP: KELLY, CRAWFORD, STOLTZE, HAWKER, NELSON, THOMAS, MEYER, CHENAULT 02/20/08 (H) NR: GARA 03/03/08 (H) TRANSMITTED TO (S) 03/03/08 (H) VERSION: CSHB 267(RES) 03/04/08 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS 03/04/08 (S) RES 03/10/08 (S) RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205 WITNESS REGISTER JODY SIMPSON Staff to Senator Huggins Alaska State Capitol Juneau, AK POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 214 for the sponsor. KRISTIN WRIGHT, Supervisor Finance Licensing Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G) Juneau, AK POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 214. KEVIN SAXBY, Senior Assistant Attorney General Department of Law (DOL) Juneau, AK POSITION STATEMENT: Answered legal questions on CSSB 214(RES) and CSHB 267(RES). JEANNE OSTNES Staff to Representative Craig Johnson Alaska State Capitol Juneau, AK POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on CSHB 267(RES) for the sponsor. CAPTAIN BURKE WALDRON Alaska Wildlife Troopers Department of Public Safety (DPS) Juneau, AK POSITION STATEMENT: Supported CSHB 267(RES). ACTION NARRATIVE CHAIR CHARLIE HUGGINS called the Senate Resources Standing Committee meeting to order at 3:46:49 PM. Present at the call to order were Senators Green, McGuire, Stevens, Wielechowski, Wagoner and Huggins. SB 214-HUNTING BY MEMBERS OF THE MILITARY 3:47:43 PM CHAIR CHARLIE HUGGINS announced SB 214 to be up for consideration. SENATOR GARY STEVENS moved to bring CSSB 214(RES), labeled 25- LS1261\C, before the committee. There were no objections and it was so ordered. 3:48:03 PM JODY SIMPSON, staff to Senator Huggins, sponsor of SB 214, said this legislation waives the 12-month waiting period for active military members and their dependents to purchase big game tags and hunting and fishing licenses at a resident rate. The CS was recommended by the Department of Law (DOL) to better accomplish the sponsor's intent and Mr. Saxby would discuss the differences in it. 3:49:35 PM KRISTIN WRIGHT, Supervisor, Finance Licensing, Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G), said she didn't have anything to add, but would answer questions. 3:49:56 PM SENATOR LESIL MCGUIRE asked if she considered the committee discussion regarding removing the controversial big game stuff from the original bill and keeping the license as a specialized non-resident military hunting tag (or privilege) as opposed to redefining the definition of "resident." MS. SIMPSON answered that is what the CS does in effect. It deleted the language that pertained to the three dangerous species and the guiding component. It attacks the problem through the licensing provisions rather than through the residency provisions. She advised that it still deletes the guiding component and the committee might want to consider retaining that. She has asked the Department of Law to provide language. CHAIR HUGGINS clarified if you're a private and move to Alaska, you can get a license to hunt the three big game species. Presently, language is being drafted that would exempt those three species and a private could not hunt those three species without a guide. A new military person who moved to Alaska could not hunt goat, brown bear or sheep without a guide without a license. He said this issue was brought forward by the Professional Guide Association. He explained that it's not about the guiding business, because only about three people did that in the last year. It's more about the strength of the residency provision in requiring guides. 3:52:10 PM SENATOR MCGUIRE commented that she thought they were going to simply take out the controversial three big game folks, but Version C on line 6, still redefines "resident" as a method of providing these privileges as opposed to the chair's bill, which gives a special license for non-resident military folks, which she supports. She asked Mr. Saxby to comment on that. 3:53:15 PM KEVIN SAXBY, Senior Assistant Attorney General, Department of Law (DOL), said he is assigned to the Board of Game and big game issues in general. He explained that the first version of the bill creates a specialized class of non-residents who would be active duty military personnel permanently assigned to Alaska. It does that by setting up a series of exceptions to the general rules for non-residents. But the CS simply defines people who are permanently assigned here as residents, and whenever rules apply to residents in general, they would apply to these people as well. So it meets all the goals of the original bill, which also exempted this new class of non-resident from the guide requirements along with a series of other exemptions. It meets all those goals with a single sentence, and it's a much more legally defensible position to take. SENATOR MCGUIRE said she respectfully disagreed. She has heard both legal arguments and she didn't see any problem with giving a specialized privilege; the state does it for disabled veterans, for instance. It's a privilege and not a right anyway; so that's a lesser standard. However, she had deep concerns that redefining "resident" would be setting a precedent, even though it's just in the area of hunting right now. That is a dangerous road to go down. 3:56:10 PM CHAIR HUGGINS said it's his experience that generally speaking soldiers are considered residents for purposes of hunting and fishing. SENATOR MCGUIRE responded that the net affect will be the same; military members get these privileges and they know that the state appreciates their service. But even the department brought up the point of how that would be explained to vendors because they don't have access to all the information about the definition of a resident. Redefining "resident" gets into an area where other classes of people ask why they don't get that privilege, too. 3:58:48 PM CHAIR HUGGINS directed the discussion to the licensing part of the bill. It's fair to say that there are two or three places, if they factor out the Coast Guard, where people would be issued licenses: Elmendorf Air Force Base, Fort Richardson, Fort Greely, Fort Wainwright and Eilson. He asked Ms. Wright how the licensing would be done in those places. MS. WRIGHT responded that she hadn't been able to work on this issue with Mr. Saxby yet, so she wasn't sure how he would feel about her proposal. She said for the most part, military people buy their licenses on base, but they are also able to buy them elsewhere, so that language has to be clear. CHAIR HUGGINS asked Mr. Saxby if he saw other elements of concern that the committee should be sensitive to. MR. SAXBY replied that the original bill raised an issue that both he and the Professional Hunters' Association pointed out, that because of the exceptions for the guided requirements, it weakened the state's ability to defend that requirement. The CS largely eliminates that concern. Deleting section 2 of the original bill would largely eliminate that concern, as well. SENATOR GARY STEVENS said he had compared the two bill versions and the original one (A) included dependents as those who can receive non-resident licenses and version C didn't include them. "How did we arrive at that decision," he asked. MS. SIMPSON answered they get the same privileges as residents do, so dependents wouldn't have to be parsed out separately. MR. SAXBY said he wasn't aware of the difference and didn't know how to answer that. 4:03:25 PM CHAIR HUGGINS said that was an oversight and needed to be addressed. MR. SAXBY said the department has always included dependents in the same category as the military personnel in similar legislation. CHAIR HUGGINS said version C doesn't have the dependent provision; it just talks about a member of the military service. He said that a provision for dependents should be considered. 4:05:38 PM SENATOR MCGUIRE said she would "take a stab" at her own CS that would eliminate section 2, add fishing and hunting rights in section 1 and add dependents. She preferred using more narrowly tailored language. CHAIR HUGGINS said he appreciated that. He asked if there were other concerns. 4:06:21 PM SENATOR WAGONER noted this version pertained to hunting and fishing licenses, and he asked if that included all aspects of fishing, like subsistence and personal use fishing. CHAIR HUGGINS answered whatever a resident could do. SENATOR WAGONER said that would be hard for him to support, because for instance, the dip net and personal use fisheries on the Copper, Kenai and Kasilof Rivers already have battles on the beaches. "It's a mess right now; it's hard to regulate it. And all this would do would be to add more people in there earlier to compound that problem and I wouldn't be in favor of that." CHAIR HUGGINS said that some people have problems with the fish getting up to their fishing grounds. SENATOR WAGONER said this is not about getting fish up to his fishing grounds. 4:07:56 PM CHAIR HUGGINS said set aside SB 214. CSHB 267(RES)-WILDLIFE VIOLATOR COMPACT 4:08:33 PM CHAIR CHARLIE HUGGINS announced CSHB 267(RES) to be up for consideration. 4:09:43 PM JEANNE OSTNES, staff to Representative Craig Johnson, sponsor of HB 267, said this bill allows the Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G) to follow the same compact provisions as used for people who have lost their driver's license. The Wildlife Violator Compact provides that if you lose a hunting or fishing license in one state, you're not going to be able to go to another state to get another one. Alaska is the number-one state for people to come to hunt and fish in. Every state has the same compact language, so Article 1-12 cannot change substantially. That is why sections 2 and 3 at the end of the bill deal with Alaska statutes. She said she had a slide show available that was based on information provided by Al Cain, Criminal Justice Planner, Division of Sport Fish, Alaska Department of Fish and Game. 4:11:43 PM CHAIR HUGGINS asked for her to go through an expedited version of the slide show. 4:12:06 PM MS. OSTNES said the Wildlife Violator Compact (WVC) is patterned after the driver's license provision that was started in 1985 by Nevada and Colorado. Oregon joined the Compact in 1989. Showing a picture of two Missouri poachers who were convicted of taking a big horn ram without licenses in Wyoming, she said that is mainly why this legislation was developed. They were fined and lost their privileges for 10 years. Had Missouri been a part of the compact, they would have lost their licenses in all of the member states. She showed other incriminating pictures remarking that these violators always seem to take pictures of themselves and take the evidence home. She said that the compact keeps poachers revoked in one state from hunting in other states. Each state treats the out-of-state conviction as if it had occurred there. She said the compact is making a difference in terms of enforcement staying in the field. An officer could hand a citation to a non-resident violator versus arresting him, which is what happens currently. In this case the non-resident must be taken by an enforcement officer and, usually, flown to some place that has a magistrate. If they are out in the bush, they would have to fly to McGrath or Bethel. If the compact becomes law, the non-resident violator would be given a citation. Not answering it would be a violation and their license would be taken away. Each state treats the conviction as if it occurred in their own state, so the administrator would have the ability to make some decisions on whether the license would be revoked. The violator has the due process available to him to go before a court in all states. 4:16:07 PM MS. OSTNES explained that failure to appear is a violation, and the home state, which is the residence of the violator, would notify the violator that his license had been suspended until the terms of the citation were complied with. The revocation information is held in a database and each state would enter its own information. MS. OSTNES noted zero fiscal notes and she said the DPS said it wouldn't add a lot work. States that belong to the compact would be able to view the violations. 4:17:19 PM She said the Utah DPS has passed data entry off to a private company that has made the software compatible with all the 28 different states. This has saved the company so much money in personnel time that it provides this service free of charge. Since Alaska has drawings for hunts, this kind of information would be finalized before the drawing to prevent any revokee from obtaining a license in their state. She said there are now 5,000 names in the compact database, and nearly 17,000 individuals have at one point had their licenses revoked through the compact. Fifty percent of the licenses were revoked due to big game violations. The DPS has indicated that it takes just three minutes to enter the data. Mr. Cain said that there was a high of 1,873 violators entered into the compact database in 2003, but that went down a little in 2004, which he hoped indicated the compact was effective. 4:19:51 PM She said 46 percent of violations involve big game; others involve waste of game, small game, safety issues, license transfers and false information on the license. Since the first month of this year, 30 people had lied on their licenses; seven were from out of state. CHAIR HUGGINS asked what threshold would cause the vacation of licenses in other states. MS. OSTNES replied whatever the other state's law is. The violator can go before his state's administrator, whether it's a big game commission or a fish and game administrator, and they would discuss whether that violation equaled in their state what the violation was from the other state. She just read that in another state an 18-year old who for the second time had been caught shooting fawn deer; this time he killed three fawns on Christmas Eve. They took his license for life even though some people felt that was a little strong, but it was his second offense and it was the state's decision. 4:21:58 PM She explained that each state's chief or licensing authority shall appoint a compact administrator; in Alaska, the licensing authority is identified as the Department of Public Safety (DPS) even though licensing is administered through the Department of Fish and Game. All the other states have a licensing authority that also does the enforcement. The compact has annual meetings and the public safety officers that go to the annual meeting anyway meet at the same time. SENATOR THOMAS WAGONER asked who would enter the information. MS. OSTNES replied the public safety officer. SENATOR WAGONER asked if that wouldn't be after a trial, because names should be entered unless they are found guilty. MS. OSTNES replied they would have to be identified as having their license revoked. SENATOR WAGONER said he didn't see how this would have any affect on people who were poaching game. They don't care anyway. MS. OSTNES agreed, but said that it allows enforcement to give a citation and stay in the field rather than having to make an arrest and look for a magistrate. 4:24:35 PM She said that Nebraska recognizes that hunting and fishing licenses have been revoked from other states, but it is not a member of the compact. Oklahoma had legislation introduced at one time; Missouri isn't in at this point and Texas is considering it. 4:26:09 PM SENATOR STEVENS asked how this applies to the different species; Alaska has polar bears and walruses. Alligators may be elsewhere, for instance and, "Is that a free ride?" MS. OSTNES replied no; a polar bear would probably be identified as big game and other states would identify something in their statutes that would be equal to big game. 4:26:53 PM SENATOR MCGUIRE asked if the database has expungement provisions. MS. OSTNES replied that that expungement is not in this bill; it is part of the database that the Interstate Wildlife Violator Compact (IWVC) administrators have control of. 4:27:51 PM SENATOR MCGUIRE recommended inserting the laws into the statute itself that will govern entering and removal of information into the database. CHAIR HUGGINS asked where language in the bill shows the length of time or some parameters for how long someone's license would be revoked in Alaska. MS. OSTNES replied it's not in the bill; it's actually in our statutes already. CHAIR HUGGINS asked her to go to the list of states. MS. OSTNES found the list: in 2006/7 Mississippi, Illinois, Tennessee, Florida, and New York came on; in January 2008 Iowa th came on. Alaska would be the 28 state. CHAIR HUGGINS asked the parameters for suspension of hunting privileges in Alaska. 4:30:17 PM CAPTAIN BURKE WALDRON, Alaska Wildlife Troopers, Department of Public Safety (DPS), asked if he meant how violators are treated in Alaska or how people who are in the compact will be treated. CHAIR HUGGINS replied for Alaska first and then how people will be treated by the compact. CAPTAIN WALDRON said that currently license revocations for violations committed in Alaska are handled through the court system. There are no offenses that warrant an automatic revocation of a license, but a few statutes commonly would get someone's license revoked such as for hunting in a closed season or taking over-limit. Revocations are typically for 1-3 years, but 10 years was the most time and that was a condition of probation. The administrator would enter that person into the database and include when the period of revocation would end. This would be the same for people coming to Alaska. 4:33:53 PM CHAIR HUGGINS posed the question of crows that are a migratory bird and legally protected in numerous compacts, but at "the crow capital of the world" in Oklahoma, you can kill them by the hundreds. If you shoot a crow in Juneau, you have to use the feathers, eat the meat and all sorts of things. "How do you connect those two?" CAPTAIN WALDRON replied the connection would be if the person is convicted, would the court in Alaska see that offense as egregious enough to revoke privileges. If that person's privileges were revoked, his name would go into the database and Oklahoma, assuming it is a member state (which it is not), would honor that revocation. That is similar to the drivers' license compact in that Alaska honors every other state's revocations regardless of whether it was an offense Alaska wouldn't revoke for in the first place. He said many states in the Lower 48 revoke someone's license for unpaid speeding tickets; Alaska does not. However, if someone from New Mexico has their license revoked for an unpaid speeding ticket and they drive in Alaska, they will get charged with driving on a suspended and revoked driver's license and the DMV will not issue that person an Alaska driver's license until they correct their misdeeds in New Mexico. CHAIR HUGGINS followed up saying that federal species historically have a severer punishment and asked if that would be taken into account. CAPTAIN WALDRON replied that wouldn't be taken into account any more than at present if the compact language is passed. 4:38:46 PM SENATOR WAGONER said he didn't see a report of any conviction or any punishment dolled out when two men "literally slaughtered a bunch of musk oxen" here about three years ago. If we're not going to punish our own people for egregious acts, why should we do it for other states, he asked. He also asked if he knew of that case's final outcome. CAPTAIN WALDRON responded that he didn't know about that case's final outcome. He assured Senator Huggins that if there is enough evidence to file criminal charges, they present that evidence to the prosecuting attorney and request that he follow through with the charges. Often, for a variety of reasons, they don't get the convictions they would like to see. SENATOR WAGONER asked him to research whether Alaska's system works or not. 4:41:30 PM MS. OSTNES said once an Arizona court did not get the 180-day notification out in time to the violator who said he didn't get his due process. The court chose the violator compact law over the state law dealing with what was a paper failure. The compact law has a stronger application in the eyes of the court system. SENATOR WAGONER said he understands the program, but Alaska needs to be very cautious. If somebody charges a citizen with a crime outside of Alaska's jurisdiction, that person can be extradited and the governor might choose to not stop it. CHAIR HUGGINS asked if someone in Alaska shoots a black bear, for instance, and takes the hide out of the state, what act do they violate. CAPTAIN WALDRON replied the Lacey Act. CHAIR HUGGINS asked if they should be sensitive to having any Lacey Act violations or prosecutions in Alaska versus other states. Other states treat it differently than Alaska does, and we would have to honor that. 4:45:12 PM CAPTAIN WALDRON responded that when someone is hunting in any state, that person is required to know its laws and regulations along with the cost of their violation. He said that poachers are very mobile; they don't care what's important to the state they are in. They will come to Alaska and violate our laws, too. For them it's not about sportsmanship. People call the department and want to know if Alaska is part of the compact because they can't hunt in those states. Right now the department doesn't have the means of knowing if their license has been revoked in any other state. The compact's published list would be readily available to enforcement here. CHAIR HUGGINS asked if it also applies to fish. CAPTAIN WALDRON replied yes. SENATOR WAGONER asked how that list would be made available to the license vendors. CAPTAIN WALDRON replied that issue hadn't been resolved, because the state's licensing system isn't computerized yet. REPRESENTATIVE CRAIG JOHNSON explained when you apply for a license you sign an affidavit saying it hasn't been revoked in any other state, subject to a one-year penalty and a $10,000 fine. It can be tracked under the compact, but not without it. SENATOR WAGONER asked if it is a felony. CAPTAIN WALDRON replied no; it's an unsworn falsification - one year in jail and a $10,000 fine. CHAIR HUGGINS said he supported the essence of the compact and asked if the Department of Law had any other concerns. KEVIN SAXBY, Senior Assistant Attorney General, Department of Law (DOL), answered that he didn't have any concerns, but was available to answer questions. He said he is in communication with his compatriots in other states and they haven't outlined any particular problems with implementing the compact and the CS takes care of potential commercial fishing issues. 4:52:31 PM REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON reiterated this bill would protect Alaska much more from outside hunters than it would from Alaskans going outside to hunt. The department needs the ability for an officer in the field to issue a citation and not have to leave the field to find a magistrate to administer it to an out-of-state person. Alaska is subject to more poachers than any other state in the country and this is another tool the department can use to keep those people from coming to Alaska, and when they do come, to have a bigger hammer to deal with them. CHAIR HUGGINS asked him to share any questions that were brought up in previous committees of referral that caused him to do some research. 4:53:55 PM REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON explained that he dealt a little bit with the Boards of Fisheries, Game and Guides. It was determined that one couldn't be a big game guide without a license; so if you lose your license, you lose your ability to be a guide. He said commercial fishing had been discussed in relation to the compact, but it was decided to take it out for now, because it is not appropriate for the existing members of the compact. But it would be something to look at in the future. The greatest concern he found is the state losing control of its game, but he had been assured from legislative legal that the state would still be in control of its game. Nothing that happens in the other states would affect how the state would manage its game or subsistence. MS. OSTNES added that one person wrote a letter saying the compact was unconstitutional, but legislative legal said it was. She said the question came up of if you would still have a conviction after being cited and paying the fine. The answer had to be yes. 4:55:30 PM REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON said that particular instance was specifically a contract situation where the guide was looking at one animal and he client was looking at the other and shot it. The citation was issued, but the license wasn't revoked because they did everything right; they turned the animal over to ADF&G. That client worked for a company whose policy it was to not allow citations, so he was going to have to fight the citation. It had nothing to do with the compact. SENATOR WAGONER asked whose responsibility it is to ascertain completion of a sentence and who purges the name from the list and makes sure the database is updated on an often-enough basis so that all of a sudden someone who comes here to hunt and isn't still on the list. CAPTAIN WALDRON answered that each state appoints a license administrator who makes sure entries are made on time. The actual published list of revocations includes a start and finish date, which anyone accessing the list can see. He said the list doesn't publish convictions, just the revocations and the period of revocation. The list is on a website that is accessed by a password. 4:59:56 PM CHAIR HUGGINS asked if he was saying that vendors would have access to the list. CAPTAIN WALDRON replied not right now; only the Department of Public Safety and a few people in ADF&G would have access to it because licensing is not yet computerized. CHAIR HUGGINS asked if he is in Cold Bay and wants to buy a license to go duck hunting and the vendor has no way of checking, how long would it take for someone to close the loop to detect that he was hunting elk in New Mexico and got a violation and his license was suspended a year ago. CAPTAIN WALDRON replied conceptually it's possible that occasionally that loop wouldn't be closed, but if the trooper checked a person's license in the field, he could follow up with the database after the fact. If his license had been revoked, the trooper could either try to contact the person again in the field or follow up with a criminal investigation and criminal charges for hunting without a valid license and unsworn falsification. If that person had already absconded back to New Mexico, the citations would follow that individual. If the individual didn't respond, his name would be entered into the database as being nonresponsive to the citation, and through due process in New Mexico, that person's privileges would be revoked until he addressed his citations in Alaska. CHAIR HUGGINS asked under that scenario, if you're not checked by an agent, what's the likelihood that someone would be able to detect that the purchased license was invalid. CAPTAIN WALDRON replied that it's not done often. Typically, wildlife troopers take many of the license books from their vendors during the winter months and check them then; they are called "residency investigations." Thirty of those have been filed since January 1. This would add lying about residency to those residency investigations. 5:04:07 PM REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON said that enforcement would only get better from getting the computerized capability that would allow them to run the check before issuing the license. Internet connectivity is not a good reason to not proceed with the program because of all the other benefits it offers like the ticketing of the violator in the field and answering in the affirmative the calls received from out of state asking if Alaska is a member of the WVC. CHAIR HUGGINS asked him to explain again about ticketing in the field. REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON said if Alaska were to become a compact state, a citation could be issued for an out-of-state violation in the field without having to transport the violator to a magistrate. That officer could then stay in the field and do his job. Some of the locations are very remote and it's a full day to the magistrate. If the person skips out on the citation, he could be found in his home state and go on the list. CHAIR HUGGINS said CSHB 267(RES) would be held. There being no further business to come before the committee, Chair Huggins adjourned the meeting at 5:06:38 PM.

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