Legislature(2007 - 2008)BUTROVICH 205

03/10/2008 03:30 PM RESOURCES

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-- Testimony <Time Limit May Be Set> --
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
              SENATE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                         March 10, 2008                                                                                         
                           3:46 p.m.                                                                                            
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
Senator Charlie Huggins, Chair                                                                                                  
Senator Lyda Green                                                                                                              
Senator Lesil McGuire                                                                                                           
Senator Gary Stevens                                                                                                            
Senator Bill Wielechowski                                                                                                       
Senator Thomas Wagoner                                                                                                          
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
Senator Bert Stedman, Vice Chair                                                                                                
OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT                                                                                                     
Representative Jay Ramras                                                                                                       
Representative Craig Johnson                                                                                                    
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
SENATE BILL NO. 214                                                                                                             
"An Act  relating to big  game hunting by nonresident  members of                                                               
the military service  and their dependents; and  providing for an                                                               
effective date."                                                                                                                
     HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                             
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 267(RES)                                                                                                  
"An  Act relating  to authorizing  the state  to join  with other                                                               
states  entering into  the Wildlife  Violator Compact;  excluding                                                               
commercial fishing and big game  commercial hunting services from                                                               
the provisions  of the compact;  and directing the  initiation of                                                               
civil actions to revoke appropriate  licenses in this state based                                                               
on a licensee's violation of or  failure to comply with the terms                                                               
of a wildlife  resource citation issued in another  state that is                                                               
a party to the compact."                                                                                                        
     HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                             
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
BILL: SB 214                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: HUNTING BY MILITARY, COAST GD., DEPENDENTS                                                                         
SPONSOR(s): SENATOR(s) HUGGINS                                                                                                  
01/16/08       (S)       PREFILE RELEASED 1/4/08                                                                                
01/16/08       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
01/16/08       (S)       RES                                                                                                    
02/27/08       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
02/27/08       (S)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
02/27/08       (S)       MINUTE(RES)                                                                                            
03/10/08       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
BILL: HB 267                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: WILDLIFE VIOLATOR COMPACT                                                                                          
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) JOHNSON                                                                                           
01/04/08       (H)       PREFILE RELEASED 1/4/08                                                                                
01/15/08       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
01/15/08       (H)       RES, FIN                                                                                               
01/18/08       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124                                                                              
01/18/08       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
01/18/08       (H)       MINUTE(RES)                                                                                            
01/28/08       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124                                                                              
01/28/08       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
01/28/08       (H)       MINUTE(RES)                                                                                            
02/06/08       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124                                                                              
02/06/08       (H)       Moved CSHB 267(RES) Out of Committee                                                                   
02/06/08       (H)       MINUTE(RES)                                                                                            
02/08/08       (H)       RES RPT CS(RES) NT 4DP 2NR 1AM                                                                         
02/08/08       (H)       DP: SEATON, FAIRCLOUGH, GATTO, JOHNSON                                                                 
02/08/08       (H)       NR: GUTTENBERG, EDGMON                                                                                 
02/08/08       (H)       AM: KAWASAKI                                                                                           
02/19/08       (H)       FIN AT 1:30 PM HOUSE FINANCE 519                                                                       
02/19/08       (H)       Moved CSHB 267(RES) Out of Committee                                                                   
02/19/08       (H)       MINUTE(FIN)                                                                                            
02/20/08       (H)       FIN RPT CS(RES) NT 8DP 1NR                                                                             
02/20/08       (H)       DP: KELLY, CRAWFORD, STOLTZE, HAWKER,                                                                  
                         NELSON, THOMAS, MEYER, CHENAULT                                                                        
02/20/08       (H)       NR: GARA                                                                                               
03/03/08       (H)       TRANSMITTED TO (S)                                                                                     
03/03/08       (H)       VERSION: CSHB 267(RES)                                                                                 
03/04/08       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
03/04/08       (S)       RES                                                                                                    
03/10/08       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
JODY SIMPSON                                                                                                                    
Staff to Senator Huggins                                                                                                        
Alaska State Capitol                                                                                                            
Juneau, AK                                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 214 for the sponsor.                                                                      
KRISTIN WRIGHT, Supervisor                                                                                                      
Finance Licensing                                                                                                               
Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G)                                                                                      
Juneau, AK                                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 214.                                                                                      
KEVIN SAXBY, Senior Assistant Attorney General                                                                                  
Department of Law (DOL)                                                                                                         
Juneau, AK                                                                                                                      
POSITION  STATEMENT: Answered  legal questions  on CSSB  214(RES)                                                             
and CSHB 267(RES).                                                                                                              
JEANNE OSTNES                                                                                                                   
Staff to Representative Craig Johnson                                                                                           
Alaska State Capitol                                                                                                            
Juneau, AK                                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on CSHB 267(RES) for the sponsor.                                                               
CAPTAIN BURKE WALDRON                                                                                                           
Alaska Wildlife Troopers                                                                                                        
Department of Public Safety (DPS)                                                                                               
Juneau, AK                                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported CSHB 267(RES).                                                                                  
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
CHAIR  CHARLIE  HUGGINS  called  the  Senate  Resources  Standing                                                             
Committee meeting to order at 3:46:49  PM. Present at the call to                                                             
order  were  Senators   Green,  McGuire,  Stevens,  Wielechowski,                                                               
Wagoner and Huggins.                                                                                                            
           SB 214-HUNTING BY MEMBERS OF THE MILITARY                                                                        
3:47:43 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR   CHARLIE  HUGGINS   announced  SB   214  to   be  up   for                                                               
SENATOR GARY  STEVENS moved to  bring CSSB 214(RES),  labeled 25-                                                               
LS1261\C, before the  committee. There were no  objections and it                                                               
was so ordered.                                                                                                                 
3:48:03 PM                                                                                                                    
JODY SIMPSON, staff  to Senator Huggins, sponsor of  SB 214, said                                                               
this legislation  waives the 12-month  waiting period  for active                                                               
military members and  their dependents to purchase  big game tags                                                               
and hunting and  fishing licenses at a resident rate.  The CS was                                                               
recommended by the  Department of Law (DOL)  to better accomplish                                                               
the sponsor's intent and Mr.  Saxby would discuss the differences                                                               
in it.                                                                                                                          
3:49:35 PM                                                                                                                    
KRISTIN WRIGHT, Supervisor,  Finance Licensing, Alaska Department                                                               
of Fish and  Game (ADF&G), said she didn't have  anything to add,                                                               
but would answer questions.                                                                                                     
3:49:56 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  LESIL  MCGUIRE asked  if  she  considered the  committee                                                               
discussion regarding  removing the  controversial big  game stuff                                                               
from the original  bill and keeping the license  as a specialized                                                               
non-resident military  hunting tag  (or privilege) as  opposed to                                                               
redefining the definition of "resident."                                                                                        
MS.  SIMPSON answered  that is  what the  CS does  in effect.  It                                                               
deleted  the  language  that pertained  to  the  three  dangerous                                                               
species  and  the  guiding  component.  It  attacks  the  problem                                                               
through  the   licensing  provisions  rather  than   through  the                                                               
residency  provisions.  She advised  that  it  still deletes  the                                                               
guiding  component  and  the committee  might  want  to  consider                                                               
retaining that.  She has asked  the Department of Law  to provide                                                               
CHAIR HUGGINS clarified  if you're a private and  move to Alaska,                                                               
you  can get  a  license  to hunt  the  three  big game  species.                                                               
Presently,  language is  being drafted  that  would exempt  those                                                               
three species  and a private  could not hunt those  three species                                                               
without a guide. A new military  person who moved to Alaska could                                                               
not hunt  goat, brown  bear or  sheep without  a guide  without a                                                               
He said this issue was  brought forward by the Professional Guide                                                               
Association.  He  explained  that  it's  not  about  the  guiding                                                               
business, because  only about three  people did that in  the last                                                               
year. It's more about the  strength of the residency provision in                                                               
requiring guides.                                                                                                               
3:52:10 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR MCGUIRE  commented that  she thought  they were  going to                                                               
simply  take out  the  controversial three  big  game folks,  but                                                               
Version C  on line 6, still  redefines "resident" as a  method of                                                               
providing these privileges as opposed  to the chair's bill, which                                                               
gives a  special license for  non-resident military  folks, which                                                               
she supports. She asked Mr. Saxby to comment on that.                                                                           
3:53:15 PM                                                                                                                    
KEVIN  SAXBY, Senior  Assistant Attorney  General, Department  of                                                               
Law (DOL), said he is assigned to  the Board of Game and big game                                                               
issues in  general. He  explained that the  first version  of the                                                               
bill creates  a specialized class  of non-residents who  would be                                                               
active duty  military personnel  permanently assigned  to Alaska.                                                               
It does that by setting up  a series of exceptions to the general                                                               
rules for  non-residents. But  the CS  simply defines  people who                                                               
are permanently  assigned here as  residents, and  whenever rules                                                               
apply to residents  in general, they would apply  to these people                                                               
as well.  So it meets all  the goals of the  original bill, which                                                               
also  exempted this  new  class of  non-resident  from the  guide                                                               
requirements along with  a series of other exemptions.   It meets                                                               
all those  goals with  a single  sentence, and  it's a  much more                                                               
legally defensible position to take.                                                                                            
SENATOR MCGUIRE  said she respectfully  disagreed. She  has heard                                                               
both legal arguments  and she didn't see any  problem with giving                                                               
a  specialized   privilege;  the  state  does   it  for  disabled                                                               
veterans, for instance. It's a  privilege and not a right anyway;                                                               
so that's a lesser standard.  However, she had deep concerns that                                                               
redefining "resident"  would be setting a  precedent, even though                                                               
it's just in  the area of hunting right now.  That is a dangerous                                                               
road to go down.                                                                                                                
3:56:10 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR HUGGINS  said it's his  experience that  generally speaking                                                               
soldiers  are considered  residents for  purposes of  hunting and                                                               
SENATOR MCGUIRE responded  that the net affect will  be the same;                                                               
military  members get  these privileges  and they  know that  the                                                               
state appreciates their service.  But even the department brought                                                               
up the  point of how that  would be explained to  vendors because                                                               
they  don't  have  access  to   all  the  information  about  the                                                               
definition  of a  resident. Redefining  "resident"  gets into  an                                                               
area where  other classes of people  ask why they don't  get that                                                               
privilege, too.                                                                                                                 
3:58:48 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR HUGGINS  directed the discussion  to the licensing  part of                                                               
the bill.  It's fair to say  that there are two  or three places,                                                               
if they factor out the Coast  Guard, where people would be issued                                                               
licenses:  Elmendorf  Air  Force   Base,  Fort  Richardson,  Fort                                                               
Greely, Fort Wainwright  and Eilson. He asked Ms.  Wright how the                                                               
licensing would be done in those places.                                                                                        
MS. WRIGHT  responded that she hadn't  been able to work  on this                                                               
issue with  Mr. Saxby yet, so  she wasn't sure how  he would feel                                                               
about her proposal.  She said for the most  part, military people                                                               
buy their  licenses on base, but  they are also able  to buy them                                                               
elsewhere, so that language has to be clear.                                                                                    
CHAIR  HUGGINS  asked Mr.  Saxby  if  he  saw other  elements  of                                                               
concern that the committee should be sensitive to.                                                                              
MR. SAXBY  replied that  the original bill  raised an  issue that                                                               
both he  and the Professional  Hunters' Association  pointed out,                                                               
that because  of the exceptions  for the guided  requirements, it                                                               
weakened the state's  ability to defend that  requirement. The CS                                                               
largely  eliminates  that  concern.  Deleting section  2  of  the                                                               
original bill would largely eliminate that concern, as well.                                                                    
SENATOR GARY STEVENS  said he had compared the  two bill versions                                                               
and the  original one  (A) included dependents  as those  who can                                                               
receive non-resident licenses and  version C didn't include them.                                                               
"How did we arrive at that decision," he asked.                                                                                 
MS. SIMPSON  answered they get  the same privileges  as residents                                                               
do, so dependents wouldn't have to be parsed out separately.                                                                    
MR. SAXBY said he wasn't aware  of the difference and didn't know                                                               
how to answer that.                                                                                                             
4:03:25 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  HUGGINS  said that  was  an  oversight  and needed  to  be                                                               
MR. SAXBY said  the department has always  included dependents in                                                               
the  same   category  as  the   military  personnel   in  similar                                                               
CHAIR  HUGGINS   said  version  C  doesn't   have  the  dependent                                                               
provision; it just talks about  a member of the military service.                                                               
He said that a provision for dependents should be considered.                                                                   
4:05:38 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR MCGUIRE said  she would "take a stab" at  her own CS that                                                               
would  eliminate section  2, add  fishing and  hunting rights  in                                                               
section 1 and  add dependents. She preferred  using more narrowly                                                               
tailored language.                                                                                                              
CHAIR HUGGINS  said he appreciated  that. He asked if  there were                                                               
other concerns.                                                                                                                 
4:06:21 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  WAGONER  noted this  version  pertained  to hunting  and                                                               
fishing licenses,  and he asked  if that included all  aspects of                                                               
fishing, like subsistence and personal use fishing.                                                                             
CHAIR HUGGINS answered whatever a resident could do.                                                                            
SENATOR  WAGONER said  that would  be  hard for  him to  support,                                                               
because for instance,  the dip net and personal  use fisheries on                                                               
the Copper, Kenai and Kasilof  Rivers already have battles on the                                                               
beaches. "It's  a mess right now;  it's hard to regulate  it. And                                                               
all this  would do would be  to add more people  in there earlier                                                               
to compound that problem and I wouldn't be in favor of that."                                                                   
CHAIR HUGGINS said  that some people have problems  with the fish                                                               
getting up to their fishing grounds.                                                                                            
SENATOR WAGONER  said this is  not about  getting fish up  to his                                                               
fishing grounds.                                                                                                                
4:07:56 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR HUGGINS said set aside SB 214.                                                                                            
            CSHB 267(RES)-WILDLIFE VIOLATOR COMPACT                                                                         
4:08:33 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  CHARLIE  HUGGINS announced  CSHB  267(RES)  to be  up  for                                                               
4:09:43 PM                                                                                                                    
JEANNE OSTNES, staff to Representative  Craig Johnson, sponsor of                                                               
HB 267, said  this bill allows the Alaska Department  of Fish and                                                               
Game (ADF&G)  to follow the  same compact provisions as  used for                                                               
people  who  have  lost  their  driver's  license.  The  Wildlife                                                               
Violator Compact provides  that if you lose a  hunting or fishing                                                               
license  in one  state, you're  not  going to  be able  to go  to                                                               
another  state to  get another  one.   Alaska  is the  number-one                                                               
state for people to come to hunt and fish in.                                                                                   
Every  state  has the  same  compact  language, so  Article  1-12                                                               
cannot change substantially. That is why  sections 2 and 3 at the                                                               
end of  the bill deal  with Alaska statutes.  She said she  had a                                                               
slide show  available that was  based on information  provided by                                                               
Al  Cain,  Criminal  Justice Planner,  Division  of  Sport  Fish,                                                               
Alaska Department of Fish and Game.                                                                                             
4:11:43 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR HUGGINS  asked for her  to go through an  expedited version                                                               
of the slide show.                                                                                                              
4:12:06 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. OSTNES said the Wildlife  Violator Compact (WVC) is patterned                                                               
after the driver's license provision  that was started in 1985 by                                                               
Nevada and Colorado.  Oregon joined the Compact  in 1989. Showing                                                               
a picture of  two Missouri poachers who were  convicted of taking                                                               
a big  horn ram  without licenses  in Wyoming,  she said  that is                                                               
mainly why  this legislation was  developed. They were  fined and                                                               
lost their privileges  for 10 years. Had Missouri been  a part of                                                               
the compact,  they would have lost  their licenses in all  of the                                                               
member states. She showed  other incriminating pictures remarking                                                               
that these violators  always seem to take  pictures of themselves                                                               
and take the evidence home.                                                                                                     
She said  that the  compact keeps poachers  revoked in  one state                                                               
from hunting in other states.  Each state treats the out-of-state                                                               
conviction as if  it had occurred there. She said  the compact is                                                               
making  a  difference in  terms  of  enforcement staying  in  the                                                               
field.  An  officer  could  hand a  citation  to  a  non-resident                                                               
violator versus  arresting him, which is  what happens currently.                                                               
In this  case the  non-resident must be  taken by  an enforcement                                                               
officer and, usually, flown to  some place that has a magistrate.                                                               
If they are  out in the bush,  they would have to  fly to McGrath                                                               
or Bethel.                                                                                                                      
If the  compact becomes law,  the non-resident violator  would be                                                               
given  a citation.  Not answering  it  would be  a violation  and                                                               
their  license  would  be  taken  away.  Each  state  treats  the                                                               
conviction  as  if  it  occurred  in  their  own  state,  so  the                                                               
administrator would  have the ability  to make some  decisions on                                                               
whether the  license would be  revoked. The violator has  the due                                                               
process available to him to go before a court in all states.                                                                    
4:16:07 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. OSTNES explained  that failure to appear is  a violation, and                                                               
the home  state, which  is the residence  of the  violator, would                                                               
notify the  violator that  his license  had been  suspended until                                                               
the  terms of  the citation  were complied  with. The  revocation                                                               
information is held in a database  and each state would enter its                                                               
own information.                                                                                                                
MS. OSTNES noted  zero fiscal notes and she said  the DPS said it                                                               
wouldn't add a lot work. States  that belong to the compact would                                                               
be able to view the violations.                                                                                                 
4:17:19 PM                                                                                                                    
She said  the Utah  DPS has  passed data entry  off to  a private                                                               
company that  has made  the software compatible  with all  the 28                                                               
different states.  This has  saved the company  so much  money in                                                               
personnel time that it provides this service free of charge.                                                                    
Since Alaska  has drawings  for hunts,  this kind  of information                                                               
would  be finalized  before the  drawing to  prevent any  revokee                                                               
from obtaining a  license in their state. She said  there are now                                                               
5,000  names   in  the  compact   database,  and   nearly  17,000                                                               
individuals have at one point  had their licenses revoked through                                                               
the compact.  Fifty percent of  the licenses were revoked  due to                                                               
big game violations.                                                                                                            
The DPS has  indicated that it takes just three  minutes to enter                                                               
the data. Mr. Cain said that  there was a high of 1,873 violators                                                               
entered into the  compact database in 2003, but that  went down a                                                               
little  in  2004,  which  he  hoped  indicated  the  compact  was                                                               
4:19:51 PM                                                                                                                    
She  said  46 percent  of  violations  involve big  game;  others                                                               
involve  waste  of  game,  small  game,  safety  issues,  license                                                               
transfers and false  information on the license.  Since the first                                                               
month of this  year, 30 people had lied on  their licenses; seven                                                               
were from out of state.                                                                                                         
CHAIR HUGGINS  asked what threshold  would cause the  vacation of                                                               
licenses in other states.                                                                                                       
MS.  OSTNES  replied  whatever  the other  state's  law  is.  The                                                               
violator can go before his  state's administrator, whether it's a                                                               
big game  commission or a  fish and game administrator,  and they                                                               
would discuss whether that violation  equaled in their state what                                                               
the violation  was from the  other state.  She just read  that in                                                               
another state  an 18-year old  who for  the second time  had been                                                               
caught shooting  fawn deer;  this time he  killed three  fawns on                                                               
Christmas Eve.  They took his  license for life even  though some                                                               
people  felt that  was a  little strong,  but it  was his  second                                                               
offense and it was the state's decision.                                                                                        
4:21:58 PM                                                                                                                    
She  explained that  each state's  chief  or licensing  authority                                                               
shall appoint  a compact administrator; in  Alaska, the licensing                                                               
authority is identified as the  Department of Public Safety (DPS)                                                               
even though  licensing is administered through  the Department of                                                               
Fish and  Game. All the  other states have a  licensing authority                                                               
that also does  the enforcement. The compact  has annual meetings                                                               
and  the public  safety officers  that go  to the  annual meeting                                                               
anyway meet at the same time.                                                                                                   
SENATOR THOMAS WAGONER asked who would enter the information.                                                                   
MS. OSTNES replied the public safety officer.                                                                                   
SENATOR WAGONER asked if that  wouldn't be after a trial, because                                                               
names should be entered unless they are found guilty.                                                                           
MS. OSTNES  replied they  would have to  be identified  as having                                                               
their license revoked.                                                                                                          
SENATOR  WAGONER said  he  didn't  see how  this  would have  any                                                               
affect on people who were poaching game. They don't care anyway.                                                                
MS. OSTNES agreed, but said that  it allows enforcement to give a                                                               
citation and  stay in  the field  rather than  having to  make an                                                               
arrest and look for a magistrate.                                                                                               
4:24:35 PM                                                                                                                    
She  said  that  Nebraska  recognizes that  hunting  and  fishing                                                               
licenses have  been revoked from  other states,  but it is  not a                                                               
member  of the  compact. Oklahoma  had legislation  introduced at                                                               
one  time;  Missouri  isn't  in   at  this  point  and  Texas  is                                                               
considering it.                                                                                                                 
4:26:09 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR STEVENS asked how this  applies to the different species;                                                               
Alaska  has   polar  bears  and   walruses.  Alligators   may  be                                                               
elsewhere, for instance and, "Is that a free ride?"                                                                             
MS. OSTNES replied no; a  polar bear would probably be identified                                                               
as big  game and other  states would identify something  in their                                                               
statutes that would be equal to big game.                                                                                       
4:26:53 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR   MCGUIRE  asked   if   the   database  has   expungement                                                               
MS. OSTNES replied that that expungement  is not in this bill; it                                                               
is part  of the  database that  the Interstate  Wildlife Violator                                                               
Compact (IWVC) administrators have control of.                                                                                  
4:27:51 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR MCGUIRE  recommended inserting the laws  into the statute                                                               
itself that will govern entering  and removal of information into                                                               
the database.                                                                                                                   
CHAIR HUGGINS asked  where language in the bill  shows the length                                                               
of time or  some parameters for how long  someone's license would                                                               
be revoked in Alaska.                                                                                                           
MS. OSTNES  replied it's not  in the  bill; it's actually  in our                                                               
statutes already.                                                                                                               
CHAIR HUGGINS asked her to go to the list of states.                                                                            
MS.  OSTNES  found the  list:  in  2006/7 Mississippi,  Illinois,                                                               
Tennessee, Florida,  and New York  came on; in January  2008 Iowa                                                               
came on. Alaska would be the 28 state.                                                                                          
CHAIR  HUGGINS asked  the parameters  for  suspension of  hunting                                                               
privileges in Alaska.                                                                                                           
4:30:17 PM                                                                                                                    
CAPTAIN BURKE  WALDRON, Alaska  Wildlife Troopers,  Department of                                                               
Public Safety (DPS), asked if  he meant how violators are treated                                                               
in Alaska or how people who are in the compact will be treated.                                                                 
CHAIR HUGGINS replied  for Alaska first and then  how people will                                                               
be treated by the compact.                                                                                                      
CAPTAIN  WALDRON  said  that currently  license  revocations  for                                                               
violations  committed in  Alaska  are handled  through the  court                                                               
system.  There   are  no  offenses  that   warrant  an  automatic                                                               
revocation of  a license, but  a few statutes commonly  would get                                                               
someone's license revoked such as  for hunting in a closed season                                                               
or taking  over-limit. Revocations  are typically for  1-3 years,                                                               
but  10 years  was the  most  time and  that was  a condition  of                                                               
The administrator would  enter that person into  the database and                                                               
include when  the period of  revocation would end. This  would be                                                               
the same for people coming to Alaska.                                                                                           
4:33:53 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR HUGGINS  posed the question  of crows that are  a migratory                                                               
bird  and legally  protected in  numerous compacts,  but at  "the                                                               
crow capital of the world" in  Oklahoma, you can kill them by the                                                               
hundreds. If  you shoot  a crow  in Juneau, you  have to  use the                                                               
feathers,  eat the  meat and  all sorts  of things.  "How do  you                                                               
connect those two?"                                                                                                             
CAPTAIN WALDRON replied the connection  would be if the person is                                                               
convicted,  would  the  court  in  Alaska  see  that  offense  as                                                               
egregious  enough   to  revoke   privileges.  If   that  person's                                                               
privileges were revoked, his name  would go into the database and                                                               
Oklahoma, assuming it is a member  state (which it is not), would                                                               
honor that  revocation. That is  similar to the  drivers' license                                                               
compact  in that  Alaska honors  every other  state's revocations                                                               
regardless of  whether it was  an offense Alaska  wouldn't revoke                                                               
for  in the  first place.  He said  many states  in the  Lower 48                                                               
revoke  someone's license  for  unpaid  speeding tickets;  Alaska                                                               
does not. However,  if someone from New Mexico  has their license                                                               
revoked for an  unpaid speeding ticket and they  drive in Alaska,                                                               
they will  get charged  with driving on  a suspended  and revoked                                                               
driver's  license and  the  DMV  will not  issue  that person  an                                                               
Alaska driver's license until they  correct their misdeeds in New                                                               
CHAIR   HUGGINS  followed   up   saying   that  federal   species                                                               
historically have  a severer punishment  and asked if  that would                                                               
be taken into account.                                                                                                          
CAPTAIN WALDRON replied  that wouldn't be taken  into account any                                                               
more than at present if the compact language is passed.                                                                         
4:38:46 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR WAGONER said he didn't see  a report of any conviction or                                                               
any punishment dolled  out when two men  "literally slaughtered a                                                               
bunch of  musk oxen"  here about  three years  ago. If  we're not                                                               
going to punish our own people  for egregious acts, why should we                                                               
do it  for other states,  he asked. He also  asked if he  knew of                                                               
that case's final outcome.                                                                                                      
CAPTAIN WALDRON responded  that he didn't know  about that case's                                                               
final  outcome.  He assured  Senator  Huggins  that if  there  is                                                               
enough  evidence  to file  criminal  charges,  they present  that                                                               
evidence to the  prosecuting attorney and request  that he follow                                                               
through with the  charges. Often, for a variety  of reasons, they                                                               
don't get the convictions they would like to see.                                                                               
SENATOR  WAGONER asked  him to  research whether  Alaska's system                                                               
works or not.                                                                                                                   
4:41:30 PM                                                                                                                    
MS. OSTNES  said once an  Arizona court  did not get  the 180-day                                                               
notification out in  time to the violator who said  he didn't get                                                               
his due  process. The court  chose the violator compact  law over                                                               
the state law dealing with what  was a paper failure. The compact                                                               
law has a stronger application in the eyes of the court system.                                                                 
SENATOR  WAGONER  said he  understands  the  program, but  Alaska                                                               
needs to be  very cautious. If somebody charges a  citizen with a                                                               
crime  outside  of  Alaska's jurisdiction,  that  person  can  be                                                               
extradited and the governor might choose to not stop it.                                                                        
CHAIR HUGGINS  asked if  someone in Alaska  shoots a  black bear,                                                               
for instance,  and takes the hide  out of the state,  what act do                                                               
they violate.                                                                                                                   
CAPTAIN WALDRON replied the Lacey Act.                                                                                          
CHAIR HUGGINS  asked if  they should be  sensitive to  having any                                                               
Lacey  Act  violations or  prosecutions  in  Alaska versus  other                                                               
states. Other states  treat it differently than  Alaska does, and                                                               
we would have to honor that.                                                                                                    
4:45:12 PM                                                                                                                    
CAPTAIN WALDRON  responded that  when someone  is hunting  in any                                                               
state, that person  is required to know its  laws and regulations                                                               
along with  the cost  of their violation.  He said  that poachers                                                               
are very  mobile; they don't  care what's important to  the state                                                               
they are in. They will come  to Alaska and violate our laws, too.                                                               
For  them   it's  not  about   sportsmanship.  People   call  the                                                               
department and  want to  know if  Alaska is  part of  the compact                                                               
because  they  can't   hunt  in  those  states.   Right  now  the                                                               
department doesn't  have the  means of  knowing if  their license                                                               
has  been revoked  in any  other state.  The compact's  published                                                               
list would be readily available to enforcement here.                                                                            
CHAIR HUGGINS asked if it also applies to fish.                                                                                 
CAPTAIN WALDRON replied yes.                                                                                                    
SENATOR WAGONER  asked how that  list would be made  available to                                                               
the license vendors.                                                                                                            
CAPTAIN WALDRON replied that issue  hadn't been resolved, because                                                               
the state's licensing system isn't computerized yet.                                                                            
REPRESENTATIVE  CRAIG  JOHNSON explained  when  you  apply for  a                                                               
license you  sign an affidavit  saying it hasn't been  revoked in                                                               
any  other state,  subject to  a one-year  penalty and  a $10,000                                                               
fine. It can be tracked under the compact, but not without it.                                                                  
SENATOR WAGONER asked if it is a felony.                                                                                        
CAPTAIN WALDRON replied  no; it's an unsworn  falsification - one                                                               
year in jail and a $10,000 fine.                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS  said he supported  the essence of the  compact and                                                               
asked if the Department of Law had any other concerns.                                                                          
KEVIN  SAXBY, Senior  Assistant Attorney  General, Department  of                                                               
Law (DOL),  answered that  he didn't have  any concerns,  but was                                                               
available to  answer questions.  He said  he is  in communication                                                               
with his  compatriots in other  states and they  haven't outlined                                                               
any particular problems with implementing  the compact and the CS                                                               
takes care of potential commercial fishing issues.                                                                              
4:52:31 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON reiterated this  bill would protect Alaska                                                               
much more from outside hunters  than it would from Alaskans going                                                               
outside to hunt. The department  needs the ability for an officer                                                               
in the field to issue a citation  and not have to leave the field                                                               
to find a magistrate to  administer it to an out-of-state person.                                                               
Alaska is  subject to more poachers  than any other state  in the                                                               
country and this  is another tool the department can  use to keep                                                               
those people  from coming to  Alaska, and  when they do  come, to                                                               
have a bigger hammer to deal with them.                                                                                         
CHAIR HUGGINS asked him to  share any questions that were brought                                                               
up in previous committees of referral  that caused him to do some                                                               
4:53:55 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON explained that he  dealt a little bit with                                                               
the Boards of Fisheries, Game  and Guides. It was determined that                                                               
one couldn't  be a big  game guide without  a license; so  if you                                                               
lose your license,  you lose your ability to be  a guide. He said                                                               
commercial  fishing  had  been   discussed  in  relation  to  the                                                               
compact, but  it was decided to  take it out for  now, because it                                                               
is not appropriate  for the existing members of  the compact. But                                                               
it would  be something  to look  at in  the future.  The greatest                                                               
concern he found is the state  losing control of its game, but he                                                               
had  been assured  from legislative  legal that  the state  would                                                               
still be  in control  of its  game. Nothing  that happens  in the                                                               
other states would affect how the  state would manage its game or                                                               
MS.  OSTNES added  that  one  person wrote  a  letter saying  the                                                               
compact was unconstitutional, but  legislative legal said it was.                                                               
She  said the  question came  up  of if  you would  still have  a                                                               
conviction after being cited and  paying the fine. The answer had                                                               
to be yes.                                                                                                                      
4:55:30 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE   JOHNSON  said   that  particular   instance  was                                                               
specifically a contract situation where  the guide was looking at                                                               
one animal  and he client was  looking at the other  and shot it.                                                               
The citation was  issued, but the license  wasn't revoked because                                                               
they did everything right; they  turned the animal over to ADF&G.                                                               
That  client worked  for a  company whose  policy it  was to  not                                                               
allow citations, so  he was going to have to  fight the citation.                                                               
It had nothing to do with the compact.                                                                                          
SENATOR  WAGONER asked  whose responsibility  it is  to ascertain                                                               
completion of  a sentence and who  purges the name from  the list                                                               
and makes sure  the database is updated on  an often-enough basis                                                               
so that all of a sudden someone  who comes here to hunt and isn't                                                               
still on the list.                                                                                                              
CAPTAIN  WALDRON  answered that  each  state  appoints a  license                                                               
administrator  who  makes sure  entries  are  made on  time.  The                                                               
actual published list of revocations  includes a start and finish                                                               
date, which anyone  accessing the list can see. He  said the list                                                               
doesn't publish convictions, just  the revocations and the period                                                               
of revocation.  The list is  on a website  that is accessed  by a                                                               
4:59:56 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  HUGGINS asked  if he  was saying  that vendors  would have                                                               
access to the list.                                                                                                             
CAPTAIN WALDRON  replied not  right now;  only the  Department of                                                               
Public Safety and  a few people in ADF&G would  have access to it                                                               
because licensing is not yet computerized.                                                                                      
CHAIR HUGGINS  asked if  he is  in Cold  Bay and  wants to  buy a                                                               
license  to  go  duck  hunting  and the  vendor  has  no  way  of                                                               
checking, how  long would it take  for someone to close  the loop                                                               
to  detect that  he  was hunting  elk  in New  Mexico  and got  a                                                               
violation and his license was suspended a year ago.                                                                             
CAPTAIN   WALDRON  replied   conceptually   it's  possible   that                                                               
occasionally that  loop wouldn't  be closed,  but if  the trooper                                                               
checked a person's license in the  field, he could follow up with                                                               
the database  after the  fact. If his  license had  been revoked,                                                               
the trooper could  either try to contact the person  again in the                                                               
field or  follow up  with a  criminal investigation  and criminal                                                               
charges  for   hunting  without  a  valid   license  and  unsworn                                                               
falsification. If that  person had already absconded  back to New                                                               
Mexico,  the  citations  would follow  that  individual.  If  the                                                               
individual didn't  respond, his  name would  be entered  into the                                                               
database as being nonresponsive to  the citation, and through due                                                               
process in New Mexico, that  person's privileges would be revoked                                                               
until he addressed his citations in Alaska.                                                                                     
CHAIR HUGGINS  asked under that  scenario, if you're  not checked                                                               
by an agent, what's the likelihood  that someone would be able to                                                               
detect that the purchased license was invalid.                                                                                  
CAPTAIN  WALDRON replied  that  it's not  done often.  Typically,                                                               
wildlife  troopers take  many  of the  license  books from  their                                                               
vendors during  the winter months  and check them then;  they are                                                               
called  "residency investigations."  Thirty  of  those have  been                                                               
filed since  January 1. This  would add lying about  residency to                                                               
those residency investigations.                                                                                                 
5:04:07 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON  said  that enforcement  would  only  get                                                               
better from getting the computerized  capability that would allow                                                               
them  to  run the  check  before  issuing the  license.  Internet                                                               
connectivity  is  not a  good  reason  to  not proceed  with  the                                                               
program  because of  all the  other benefits  it offers  like the                                                               
ticketing  of the  violator in  the  field and  answering in  the                                                               
affirmative  the  calls received  from  out  of state  asking  if                                                               
Alaska is a member of the WVC.                                                                                                  
CHAIR HUGGINS asked  him to explain again about  ticketing in the                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON  said if Alaska  were to become  a compact                                                               
state, a citation  could be issued for  an out-of-state violation                                                               
in  the field  without  having  to transport  the  violator to  a                                                               
magistrate. That officer could then stay  in the field and do his                                                               
job. Some  of the locations are  very remote and it's  a full day                                                               
to the magistrate. If the person skips out on the citation, he                                                                  
could be found in his home state and go on the list.                                                                            
CHAIR HUGGINS said CSHB 267(RES) would be held.                                                                                 
There being no further business to come before the committee,                                                                   
Chair Huggins adjourned the meeting at 5:06:38 PM.                                                                            

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