Legislature(2005 - 2006)BUTROVICH 205

04/27/2006 03:30 PM RESOURCES


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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+= HB 57 SALE OF STATE LAND TO ADJACENT LANDOWNERS TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSSSHB 57(FIN) Out of Committee
+ HB 307 KNIK RIVER PUBLIC USE AREA TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSHB 307(RES) Out of Committee
+= HB 415 RECREATIONAL LAND USE LIABILITY/ADV. POSS TELECONFERENCED
Scheduled But Not Heard
+= HB 419 REPEAL UNDERGROUND STORAGE TANK LAWS TELECONFERENCED
Moved HB 419 Out of Committee
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
              SENATE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                         April 27, 2006                                                                                         
                           3:39 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Thomas Wagoner, Chair                                                                                                   
Senator Ralph Seekins, Vice Chair                                                                                               
Senator Ben Stevens                                                                                                             
Senator Fred Dyson                                                                                                              
Senator Bert Stedman                                                                                                            
Senator Kim Elton                                                                                                               
Senator Albert Kookesh                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CS FOR SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 57(FIN)                                                                            
"An Act  relating to the  sale of certain  state land  to adjacent                                                              
landowners."                                                                                                                    
     MOVED CSSSHB 57(FIN) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 419                                                                                                              
"An  Act repealing  the  Board  of  Storage Tank  Assistance,  the                                                              
underground  storage  tank  revolving  loan  fund,  and  the  tank                                                              
cleanup  loan program;  repealing  certain reporting  requirements                                                              
relating  to underground  petroleum storage  tank systems;  making                                                              
conforming amendments; and providing for an effective date."                                                                    
     MOVED HB 419 OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 307(RES)                                                                                                  
"An Act creating the Knik River Public Use Area."                                                                               
     MOVED CSHB 307(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 415(JUD)                                                                                                  
"An  Act relating  to  landowners' immunity  for  allowing use  of                                                              
land  without charge  for  a  recreational activity;  relating  to                                                              
landowners'  liability  where  landowner  conduct  involves  gross                                                              
negligence  or reckless  or  intentional  misconduct; relating  to                                                              
claims  of  adverse  possession  and  prescriptive  easements,  or                                                              
similar claims; and providing for an effective date."                                                                           
     SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                              
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB  57                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: SALE OF STATE LAND TO ADJACENT LANDOWNERS                                                                          
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) WEYHRAUCH                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
01/10/05       (H)       PREFILE RELEASED 1/7/05                                                                                
01/10/05       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
01/10/05       (H)       RES, FIN                                                                                               
02/10/06       (H)       SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE INTRODUCED                                                                          
02/10/06       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
02/10/06       (H)       RES, FIN                                                                                               
03/24/06       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                             
03/24/06       (H)       Moved Out of Committee                                                                                 
03/24/06       (H)       MINUTE(RES)                                                                                            
03/27/06       (H)       RES RPT 2DP 4NR                                                                                        
03/27/06       (H)       DP: ELKINS, CRAWFORD;                                                                                  
03/27/06       (H)       NR: KAPSNER, SEATON, LEDOUX, SAMUELS                                                                   
04/04/06       (H)       FIN AT 1:30 PM HOUSE FINANCE 519                                                                       
04/04/06       (H)       Moved CSHB  57(FIN) Out of Committee                                                                   
04/04/06       (H)       MINUTE(FIN)                                                                                            
04/05/06       (H)       FIN RPT CS(FIN) 9DP 2NR                                                                                
04/05/06       (H)       DP: HAWKER, HOLM, KERTTULA, JOULE,                                                                     
                         MOSES,    WEYHRAUCH,    FOSTER,    MEYER,                                                              
                         CHENAULT;                                                                                              
04/05/06       (H)       NR: KELLY, STOLTZE                                                                                     
04/12/06       (H)       TRANSMITTED TO (S)                                                                                     
04/12/06       (H)       VERSION: CSSSHB 57(FIN)                                                                                
04/13/06       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
04/13/06       (S)       RES, FIN                                                                                               
04/26/06       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
04/26/06       (S)       <Bill Hearing Postponed to 4/27/06>                                                                    
04/27/06       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 419                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: REPEAL UNDERGROUND STORAGE TANK LAWS                                                                               
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) COGHILL                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
02/01/06       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
02/01/06       (H)       RES, FIN                                                                                               
03/22/06       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                             
03/22/06       (H)       Moved Out of Committee                                                                                 
03/22/06       (H)       MINUTE(RES)                                                                                            
03/24/06       (H)       RES RPT 6DP 1NR                                                                                        
03/24/06       (H)       DP: GATTO, OLSON, SEATON, ELKINS,                                                                      
                        LEDOUX, RAMRAS;                                                                                         
03/24/06       (H)       NR: CRAWFORD                                                                                           
04/04/06       (H)       FIN AT 9:00 AM HOUSE FINANCE 519                                                                       
04/04/06       (H)       Moved Out of Committee                                                                                 
04/04/06       (H)       MINUTE(FIN)                                                                                            
04/05/06       (H)       FIN RPT 7DP                                                                                            
04/05/06       (H)       DP: HAWKER, WEYHRAUCH, HOLM, KELLY,                                                                    
                         MOSES, FOSTER, MEYER                                                                                   
04/11/06       (H)       MOVED TO BOTTOM OF CALENDAR                                                                            
04/11/06       (H)       BEFORE THE HOUSE                                                                                       
04/12/06       (H)       TRANSMITTED TO (S)                                                                                     
04/12/06       (H)       VERSION: HB 419                                                                                        
04/13/06       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
04/13/06       (S)       RES, FIN                                                                                               
04/26/06       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
04/26/06       (S)       <Bill Hearing Postponed to 4/27/06>                                                                    
04/27/06       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 307                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: KNIK RIVER PUBLIC USE AREA                                                                                         
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) STOLTZE                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
05/07/05       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
05/07/05       (H)       RES, FIN                                                                                               
03/27/06       (H)       RES AT 2:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                             
03/27/06       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/27/06       (H)       MINUTE(RES)                                                                                            
03/29/06       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                             
03/29/06       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/29/06       (H)       MINUTE(RES)                                                                                            
03/31/06       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                             
03/31/06       (H)       Moved CSHB 307(RES) Out of Committee                                                                   
03/31/06       (H)       MINUTE(RES)                                                                                            
04/03/06       (H)       RES RPT CS(RES) 3DP 2NR                                                                                
04/03/06       (H)       DP: SEATON, ELKINS, RAMRAS;                                                                            
04/03/06       (H)       NR: OLSON, CRAWFORD                                                                                    
04/05/06       (H)       FIN AT 9:00 AM HOUSE FINANCE 519                                                                       
04/05/06       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
04/05/06       (H)       MINUTE(FIN)                                                                                            
04/06/06       (H)       FIN AT 8:30 AM HOUSE FINANCE 519                                                                       
04/06/06       (H)       <Bill Hearing Postponed to 1:30 PM                                                                     
                         Today>                                                                                                 
04/06/06       (H)       FIN AT 1:30 PM HOUSE FINANCE 519                                                                       
04/06/06       (H)       Moved CSHB 307(RES) Out of Committee                                                                   
04/06/06       (H)       MINUTE(FIN)                                                                                            
04/10/06       (H)       FIN RPT CS(RES) 4DP 6NR                                                                                
04/10/06       (H)       DP: WEYHRAUCH, FOSTER, STOLTZE, MEYER;                                                                 
04/10/06       (H)       NR: HAWKER, HOLM, JOULE, KERTTULA,                                                                     
                        KELLY, CHENAULT                                                                                         
04/21/06       (H)       TRANSMITTED TO (S)                                                                                     
04/21/06       (H)       VERSION: CSHB 307(RES)                                                                                 
04/22/06       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
04/22/06       (S)       RES, FIN                                                                                               
04/27/06       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
TERRY HARVEY, Staff                                                                                                             
Representative Bruce Weyhrauch                                                                                                  
Alaska State Capitol                                                                                                            
Juneau, AK 99801-1182                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Introduced HB 57 on behalf of the sponsor.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SARAH GILBERTSON, Special Assistant to the Commissioner                                                                         
Department of Fish & Game (ADF&G)                                                                                               
PO Box 25526                                                                                                                    
Juneau, AK  99802-5226                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT:  Outlined ADF&G concerns related to HB 57.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
DICK MYLIUS, Director                                                                                                           
Division of Mining, Land and Water,                                                                                             
Department of Natural Resources                                                                                                 
400 Willoughby Ave.                                                                                                             
Juneau, AK  99801-1724                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT:  Gave the DNR perspective on HB 57 and                                                                    
answered questions related to HB 307.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
JOHN SCHNABEL                                                                                                                   
Haines, AK                                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Outlined how HB 57 would benefit him.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KAREN LIDSTER, Staff                                                                                                            
Representative Coghill                                                                                                          
Alaska State Capitol                                                                                                            
Juneau, AK 99801-1182                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Introduced HB 419 on behalf of the sponsor.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
BEN MULLIGAN, Staff                                                                                                             
Representative Bill Stoltze                                                                                                     
Alaska State Capitol                                                                                                            
Juneau, AK 99801-1182                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Introduced HB 307 on behalf of the sponsor.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CARRIE GRAY-WOLFE, Resident                                                                                                     
Knik River, AK                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed HB 307.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SCOTT WOLFE, Wildlife Biologist and Resident                                                                                    
South Knik River, AK                                                                                                            
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 307 and said he does not                                                                 
support creating a public use area in a region that is so                                                                       
critical to wildlife.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
BRITT LIVELY, Area Resident                                                                                                     
Butte, AK                                                                                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT:  Disputed statement that there has been                                                                   
extensive public testimony on HB 307.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
GREGORY NELSON, Resident                                                                                                        
Butte, AK                                                                                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT:  Outlined concerns related to HB 307.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
KEN BARBER,                                                                                                                     
Mat-Su LIO                                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported HB 307.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
PATTI BARBER, Area Resident                                                                                                     
Butte, AK                                                                                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported HB 307                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
BILL FOLSOM                                                                                                                     
Mat-Su LIO                                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported HB 307.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
PETER M. PROBASCO                                                                                                               
Mat-Su LIO                                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported HB 307.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
EUGENE KISSEE                                                                                                                   
Mat-Su LIO                                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported HB 307.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
JEAN WOODS                                                                                                                      
Mat-Su LIO                                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported HB 307.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
JIM PELTIER                                                                                                                     
Mat-Su LIO                                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported HB 307.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
RANDY OWENS, Resident                                                                                                           
Knik River Valley, AK                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 307 and said people need                                                                 
recreational areas to go and ride ATVs.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
PATRICK O'CONNOR                                                                                                                
Mat-Su LIO                                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Fully supported HB 307                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
JOE MELIN                                                                                                                       
Mat-Su LIO                                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported HB 307.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
TOM DOMEIER                                                                                                                     
Mat-Su LIO                                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported HB 307 wholeheartedly.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
VIRGINIA BLAINE, Resident                                                                                                       
South Knik River, AK                                                                                                            
POSITION STATEMENT:  Expressed concern about what passage of HB                                                               
307 would mean to residents.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
GARY DORSEY, Area Resident                                                                                                      
Knik River, AK                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Asked legislators to use integrity and non-                                                              
partisanship to address the concerns related to HB 307.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
STANLEY CARTER                                                                                                                  
Mat-Su LIO                                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 307 saying people want the                                                               
area left open.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHARLOTTE SARTOR, Area Resident                                                                                                 
Knik River Valley, AK                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Suggested amending language in HB 307.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CECILY FRITZ, Chair                                                                                                             
Knik River Watershed                                                                                                            
Knik River Valley, AK                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Offered an amendment to HB 307 to help                                                                   
alleviate residents' fears.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
LYNNE WOODS, Assembly Member                                                                                                    
Mat-Su Borough                                                                                                                  
Mat-Su, AK                                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Asked the committee to address residents'                                                                
concerns related to HB 307.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
ERIC UHDE, Public Lands Advocate                                                                                                
Alaska Center for the Environment (ACE)                                                                                         
Anchorage, AK                                                                                                                   
POSITION  STATEMENT:    Asked the  committee  to  consider  strong                                                            
enforcement for HB 307.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
TODD CLARK                                                                                                                      
Alaska Outdoor Access Alliance                                                                                                  
Palmer, AK                                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 307.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR CHARLIE HUGGINS                                                                                                         
Alaska State Capitol                                                                                                            
Juneau, AK 99801-1182                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Sponsor of Senate companion bill to HB 307.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  THOMAS   WAGONER  called  the  Senate   Resources  Standing                                                            
Committee meeting to  order at 3:39:22 PM. Present  at the call to                                                            
order  were Senators  Bert  Stedman, Fred  Dyson,  Kim Elton,  and                                                              
Thomas  Wagoner.   Senators  Ralph  Seekins  and   Albert  Kookesh                                                              
arrived shortly thereafter.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
   CSSSHB  57(FIN)-SALE OF STATE LAND TO ADJACENT LANDOWNERS                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR THOMAS WAGONER announced HB 57 to be up for consideration.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:40:17 PM                                                                                                                    
TERRY HARVEY, staff  to Representative Bruce  Weyhrauch, explained                                                              
that HB  57 would  allow the  Department of  Natural Resources  to                                                              
negotiate a fair  market sale of less than 20 acres  of state land                                                              
to an  adjacent property  owner. Such a  sale could  be negotiated                                                              
provided  that the  state property  is landlocked  by an  adjacent                                                              
landowner's property.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HARVEY noted  that this  situation occurs  around the  state.                                                              
Notably  in Haines  a small state  mining claim  is surrounded  on                                                              
all sides  by Mr. Schnabel's property.  There is no  public access                                                              
to the state property  and Mr. Schnabel would like  to negotiate a                                                              
sale.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:42:06 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  FRED   DYSON  questioned   why  the  fiscal   note  isn't                                                              
positive.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HARVEY replied  the fiscal  note reflects  that a  negotiated                                                              
sale wouldn't cost  the state money. He deferred to  Mr. Mylius to                                                              
give a more complete answer.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:43:02 PM                                                                                                                    
BEN STEVENS arrived.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:43:08 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  BERT  STEDMAN asked  how  this  might work  for  isolated                                                              
parcels in Southeast that front on the coast.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:43:44 PM                                                                                                                    
SARAH GILBERTSON,  Special Assistant  to the Commissioner,  Alaska                                                              
Department   of  Fish  and   Game  (ADF&G)   explained  that   the                                                              
department's concern  is that the  public have access to  land and                                                              
water  and that  there is  a best  interest  finding. The  sponsor                                                              
moved language  from paragraph  (11) to  paragraph (7)(B)  so that                                                              
there would be a  best interest finding. She said  she would defer                                                              
to Mr.  Mylius, but she didn't  believe that property  that fronts                                                              
on the water would be considered to be completely surrounded.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:44:52 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR WAGONER  restated that to be  eligible under HB 57  it would                                                              
have to be  a total in holding.  By definition it must  be totally                                                              
surrounded and have no access.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. HARVEY agreed.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:45:40 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR ELTON asked if the state has mining claims.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR.   HARVEY  replied   the  mining   claim   he  referenced   was                                                              
established during  Territorial days and became state  property at                                                              
Statehood.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:46:34 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  STEDMAN  elaborated  some   of  the  properties  are  pre                                                              
Tongass  National  Forest  and   technically  reside  outside  the                                                              
forest even  though they  reside inside  its boundaries.  When the                                                              
state sells those  properties they don't transfer  the sub-surface                                                              
rights,  submerged land,  or tidelands  and  a 50-foot  waterfront                                                              
public access easement is taken.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
DICK  MYLIUS,  Director,  Division  of  Mining,  Land  and  Water,                                                              
Department  of Natural Resources  (DNR) said  he would  respond to                                                              
questions after  he gave  DNR's perspective.  He referenced  SB 55                                                              
and  noted  that  both bills  have  a  similar  motivation.  Under                                                              
existing  state law  small parcels  of state  land cannot  be sold                                                              
and when  state land  is sold,  it is  done through a  competitive                                                              
process that is open to all Alaskans.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
HB  57 proposes  to amend  the statutes  that are  referred to  as                                                              
preference   right  sales,   which   allows  DNR   to  sell   land                                                              
exclusively  to one  person who  has  a specific  interest in  the                                                              
land.  In this  case a  parcel is  totally  surrounded by  private                                                              
land  that is  owned  by  one individual  so  it isn't  usable  or                                                              
accessible  to anyone  else,  but it  is very  usable  to the  one                                                              
individual.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Although  this could  apply to  other  parcels in  the state,  the                                                              
motivation for  the bill is so  that Mr. Schnabel can  negotiate a                                                              
sale. This  parcel wouldn't qualify  for preference  right because                                                              
it is too large.  Under the statute remnants  or unmanageable land                                                              
may be sold, but  the size must be less than  the minimum lot size                                                              
in the  particular municipality.  This parcel  is larger  than the                                                              
minimum lot  size in the  Haines Borough so  it could not  be sold                                                              
under  that statute  as it  is currently  written. Similarly,  the                                                              
parcel  cannot be  sold competitively  because there  is no  legal                                                              
public access  and it isn't  of value to  the public or  state for                                                              
the same  reason. There  is no  access. He  noted that  the parcel                                                              
does have mineral value.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. MILIUS said  this is a good solution. It could  apply in other                                                              
situations, but the  safeguards are adequate to  ensure that lands                                                              
that are important for public access would not be sold.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Responding  to previous questions  he explained  that the  revenue                                                              
part of  the fiscal note is  indeterminate because the  state will                                                              
receive an  undetermined amount  of revenue  from the  sale, which                                                              
will be based  on a fair market  appraisal. A parcel of  land that                                                              
is surrounded  by National Forest  land wouldn't qualify  for this                                                              
preference  right, he  said, but  the state  has transferred  some                                                              
isolated parcels in Southeast to the University of Alaska.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:51:22 PM                                                                                                                    
With regard to  Senator Elton's question, he said  people do stake                                                              
mining claims  on state land  and Mr. Schnabel  does have  a state                                                              
mining claim  on the parcel under  discussion. Initially it  was a                                                              
federal   mining  claim   but  the  state   acquired  it   through                                                              
foreclosure in 1959 because the claim wasn't registered.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:52:00 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR STEDMAN asked  if the state acquired mining  claims around                                                              
the state because miners failed to pay the annual filing fee.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. MYLIUS  said that  may have  been a  Territorial law  that has                                                              
since  been repealed,  but  the  state did  acquire  all sorts  of                                                              
former federal mining claims through that legislation.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEDMAN  asked if  this is a  single property  owner issue                                                              
or  had  an inventory  had  been  done  on  state in  holdings  to                                                              
determine the potential scope of the bill.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. MYLIUS  said he  is sure  there are  other properties  such as                                                              
this, but an inventory was not done.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:54:27 PM                                                                                                                    
JOHN SCHNABEL,  Haines, explained  that he owns  84 acres  of land                                                              
that completely  surrounds 13 acres  of state land. He  would like                                                              
to purchase  the state land on  a negotiated basis rather  than an                                                              
outcry  auction.  He has  spent  over  $1 million  developing  his                                                              
property as  a wilderness destination  for tourists and  this bill                                                              
would provide security.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:55:54 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  RALPH  SEEKINS asked  if  he  brought  the issue  to  the                                                              
attention of Representative Thomas.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. SCHNABEL  replied yes, he's  been trying to resolve  the issue                                                              
for 20 years.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR WAGONER closed public testimony.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELTON moved  to report CSSSHB 57(FIN) from  committee with                                                              
individual  recommendations  and  attached fiscal  note(s).  There                                                              
being no objection, it was so ordered.                                                                                          
3:58:00 PM at ease 3:59:38 PM                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
          HB 419-REPEAL UNDERGROUND STORAGE TANK LAWS                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR   THOMAS   WAGONER  announced   HB   419   to  be   up   for                                                              
consideration.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
KAREN LIDSTER, staff  to Representative Coghill,  described HB 419                                                              
as a repealer  bill. She paraphrased the sponsor  statement, which                                                              
reads as follows.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     In 1990 the Alaska Legislature passed HB 220 to create                                                                     
        the state Underground Storage Tank Program and a                                                                        
     Storage  Tank Assistance  Fund in order  to assist  tank                                                                   
     owners that  were required to meet the deadlines  set in                                                                   
     the   US    Environmental   Protection    Agency   (EPA)                                                                   
     Underground Storage Tank Program.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     In  1999, the  year after  EPA's  deadline, the  program                                                                   
     began  to  phase  out  and was  formally  ended  by  the                                                                   
     Legislature on  June 30, 2004. A loan program  to assist                                                                   
     owners  with completing  cleanup was  established by  SB                                                                   
     128, passed  in 1999. The  Storage Tank Assistance  Fund                                                                   
     was   converted   to  the   Underground   Storage   Tank                                                                   
     Revolving Loan  Fund in 2002. The original  legislation,                                                                   
     HB  220,  also   created  the  Board  of   Storage  Tank                                                                   
     Assistance  to  oversee  state  grants  and  loans.  The                                                                   
     Board is  no longer needed  since the grant  program has                                                                   
     been  terminated  and  no loan  applications  have  been                                                                   
     received.  SB 128  established  a June  30, 1999  sunset                                                                   
     date  for  the board.  Subsequent  bills  extended  that                                                                   
     date to June 30, 2007.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     HB 419 will  modify the end date for the  board in order                                                                   
     to  be   consistent  with   the  end  date   for  formal                                                                   
     termination of  the loan program. Additionally  the bill                                                                   
     lists  out the statutes  that relate  to the board,  the                                                                   
     reporting,  regulations,  fees,   revolving  loan  fund,                                                                   
     loan  program,  definitions,   uses  of  the  fund,  the                                                                   
     respective    administrative    codes,    the    orderly                                                                   
     completion  of the boards  obligations, and  renumbering                                                                   
     instructions related to those statutes repealed.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR WAGONER commented it's always nice to take a law off the                                                                  
books.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:03:39 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR RALPH SEEKIKNS moved to report HB 419 from committee                                                                    
with individual recommendations and attached fiscal note(s).                                                                    
There being no objection, and it was so ordered.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:03:53 PM at ease 4:05:05 PM                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
            CSHB 307(RES)-KNIK RIVER PUBLIC USE AREA                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR WAGONER announced HB 307 to be up for consideration.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
BEN  MULLIGAN, staff  to  Representative  Bill Stoltze,  explained                                                              
that  HB 307,  relating to  the Knik  River public  use area,  was                                                              
introduced last  year. Since that time Representative  Stoltze and                                                              
Senator Huggins  have held  two public  meetings, many  individual                                                              
discussions,  and   numerous  meetings  with  the   Department  of                                                              
Natural Resources  (DNR) Division of  Mining, Land, and  Water. As                                                              
a  result  new  language  has been  incorporated  to  address  the                                                              
various concerns.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:06:27 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  WAGONER asked  how  many  acres would  be  included in  the                                                              
public use area.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. MULLIGAN replied approximately 262,000 acres.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  WAGONER said  he understands  it  would be  a multiple  use                                                              
area.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. MULLIGAN  said yes; the  sponsor and Senator  Huggins maintain                                                              
that everyone ought to be able to responsibly use the area.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:07:07 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR WAGONER opened public testimony.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CARRIE GRAY-WOLFE,  Knik River resident, said the  area is plagued                                                              
with  excessive  target shooting,  which  is  a threat  to  public                                                              
safety and  destructive to the environment.  Crime is on  the rise                                                              
to the  extent that  armed troopers  have been  unable to  control                                                              
unlawful activities.  No sanitary  facilities are available  in an                                                              
area that  is to  accommodate a  lot of people.  This is  a health                                                              
hazard  and  the bill  doesn't  provide  funding to  address  this                                                              
need. This  area is  a critical migration  route and  nesting area                                                              
particularly  for  Trumpeter  Swans. Enhancing  motorized  use  is                                                              
contrary to  the protection  of this  critical nesting  habitat. A                                                              
couple  thousand  homes  surround  the  Knik River  area  and  the                                                              
residents will be greatly affected by activity in the valley.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS.  GRAY-WOLFE  reported  that  the South  Knik  River  Community                                                              
Council opposes HB 307 and she opposes it as well.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SCOTT WOLFE,  Wildlife Biologist  and South  Knik River  resident,                                                              
stated opposition to  HB 307. However, because of  the high volume                                                              
of wildlife and  fish habitat that are in such  close proximity to                                                              
Alaska's main  population, he  would support  creation of  a state                                                              
recreation area or game refuge.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR.  WOLFE  said  that Silver  Salmon  in  Southcentral  could  be                                                              
further at risk  if even more use is perpetuated  and enhanced. He                                                              
suggested   that   the   bill   should   specifically   give   the                                                              
commissioner  the  responsibility  as  well  as  the  funding  and                                                              
personnel to reach  the objectives. Although the  bill states that                                                              
nothing prohibits  the Department  of Fish  and Game (ADF&G)  from                                                              
engaging in habitat  enhancement and rehabilitation  projects, the                                                              
department is  already stretched  to the limit  in terms  of money                                                              
and personnel.  The section  on wetland  protection doesn't  allow                                                              
the commissioner  to address  the local  concerns about  excessive                                                              
target  shooting  and  the use  of  explosives.  The  commissioner                                                              
should be  able to  restrict the  type of  weapons that  are used,                                                              
the time of discharge,  and the type of shot used  in and adjacent                                                              
to wetland areas, he said.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. WOLFE  reiterated he  does not support  creating a  public use                                                              
area in a region that is so critical to wildlife.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR KIM  ELTON asked if he would  prefer a public  use area to                                                              
nothing.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. WOLFE  said he considers this  to be nothing because  the area                                                              
is already in  public use. He's concerned that  the legislation is                                                              
written such  that one unarmed DNR  person will be put  in an area                                                              
where hundreds if not thousands of people will have guns.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
BRITT   LIVELY,   Butte   area  resident,   disagreed   with   the                                                              
introductory statement  that extensive  public testimony  had been                                                              
taken  throughout the  summer and  winter. The  public hasn't  had                                                              
its say  and that isn't  fair, she said.  Spend just  one Memorial                                                              
Day  here  and  you'll understand  why  the  bill  needs  stronger                                                              
language  regarding  law  enforcement,   sanitation,  and  habitat                                                              
management.  Right now  the moose  are calving  and the swans  are                                                              
nesting and they are in peril.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Please give  the commissioners of  DNR, DEC and Public  Safety the                                                              
assurance  and funding  to enable  them to  perform their  primary                                                              
statutory duties  and consider  language for  a Knik River  Valley                                                              
state recreation area, she concluded.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  WAGONER  commented  that  the  statement  about  heavy  use                                                              
during Memorial Day applies in almost any part of Alaska.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:17:19 PM                                                                                                                    
GREGORY NELSON,  Butte resident,  related  the historical  uses in                                                              
the Knik  River Valley  and said that  many of those  recreational                                                              
activities  are no longer  compatible because  of the  damage they                                                              
cause.  He related  that in  the last  25 years he  has watched  a                                                              
steady degradation  in the  wildlife and  the kinds of  activities                                                              
that  people engage  in. It's  no  longer comfortable  or safe  to                                                              
ride horses in  some areas and the trails that  were traditionally                                                              
used have been destroyed by ATV use.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR.  NELSON  outlined that  the  bill  is troublesome  because  it                                                              
precludes effective  law enforcement in that it  requires a single                                                              
unarmed  person to  deal with  people  that like  to drink,  drive                                                              
fast  and  carry  weapons.  Furthermore,  the  approach  taken  to                                                              
address the  issue of  grandfathering the  trails was  ridiculous.                                                              
What  residents in  the area  want  is a  special recreation  area                                                              
with all the  attendant statutory protections. In  closing he said                                                              
that   area  residents   strongly   support   education  and   law                                                              
enforcement.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:21:12 PM                                                                                                                    
KEN  BARBER, Mat-Su  LIO,  said he  traps and  hunts  in the  Knik                                                              
River Valley. He  supports motorized use in the  area because it's                                                              
difficult to  find places that  are designated for  motorized use.                                                              
This is a good place to have it, he concluded.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
4:22:43 PM                                                                                                                    
PATTI  BARBER,  Butte area  resident,  said  over the  years  it's                                                              
become  more  difficult to  use  a  motorized vehicle  in  favored                                                              
recreation  areas.  She  mentioned  the Chugiak  State  Park,  the                                                              
Homer Hay  Flats, and the Hatcher  Pass Recreation Area  and noted                                                              
that the  non-motorized public has not  lost the right  to use any                                                              
of those areas.  That's why the Knik River Public  Use Area should                                                              
be kept open for all forms of motorized vehicle use.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
She suggested  that the reports  of burned and abandoned  cars are                                                              
exaggerated  because  the ATV  club  conducts a  clean  up in  the                                                              
spring and  fall to  eliminate the problem.  It's time  for Alaska                                                              
to follow in the  steps of other states and develop  a plan to set                                                              
aside areas for motorized use, she concluded.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:24:24 PM                                                                                                                    
BILL FOLSOM,  Mat-Su LIO,  stated support for  HB 307.  We've been                                                              
losing access  since I  arrived in  the '60s  and right  now we're                                                              
just trying to maintain an access area, he said.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
PETER M.  PROBASCO, Mat-Su  LIO, thanked  the sponsor  and Senator                                                              
Huggins  for  what he  described  as  a well-written  bill,  which                                                              
provides  needed management  and  the authority  for multiple  use                                                              
without a lock up. He strongly supports passing the bill.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
EUGENE  KISSEE, Mat-Su  LIO, said  he  has recreated  in the  Knik                                                              
River Valley for  over 30 years and in that time  he has seen many                                                              
areas  closed to  motorized  traffic. He  stated  support for  the                                                              
bill  and said  this is  a place  that people  from Anchorage  can                                                              
use.  Regulations  are  needed   for  the  indiscriminant  use  of                                                              
firearms, but that can be addressed.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
4:27:02 PM                                                                                                                    
JEAN WOODS, Mat-Su  LIO, stated support for HB 307  and noted that                                                              
the Butte Community  Council voted 74  to 1 in favor of  the bill.                                                              
She has used  the area since 1954  and for age and  health reasons                                                              
she can  no longer access  it on foot. There  needs to be  a place                                                              
for people  like me to go to  recreate and enjoy the  outdoors and                                                              
this is a logical place for that, she said.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:28:13 PM                                                                                                                    
JIM PELTIER,  Mat-Su LIO,  said he  uses the area  with a  boat, a                                                              
four-wheeler,  and a  snow machine.  He supports  multiple use  in                                                              
the area and therefore he supports HB 307.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
RANDY OWENS, Knik  River Valley resident, said he  has enjoyed the                                                              
benefit of  the area for  many years and  he believes  that people                                                              
need recreational areas  to go and ride ATVs. The  area is largely                                                              
sand  and gravel  and  that's  where  people ride.  Problems  with                                                              
garbage arise  from time  to time, but  people are generally  good                                                              
about  keeping it clean.  In conclusion  he said  this also  gives                                                              
people in the military a place to ride.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
PATRICK O'CONNOR, Mat-Su  LIO, said he has spent most  of his life                                                              
in this area and  after 60 some years he accesses  the area with a                                                              
four-wheeler. He stated  full support for HB 307  because it costs                                                              
too  much to  travel  to  other parts  of  the state  for  similar                                                              
recreational opportunities.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
JOE MELIN,  Mat-Su LIO, said he  uses a wheelchair and  it's a lot                                                              
easier to  get around  the area  in a  four-wheeler. He'd  like to                                                              
keep the  area open to motorized  vehicles and for that  reason he                                                              
supports HB 307.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
TOM DOMEIER,  Mat-Su LIO, said he's  used the area since  1974 for                                                              
hiking, canoeing,  dog mushing, and four-wheeling  and he supports                                                              
HB 307  wholeheartedly. He believes  that the garbage  issue ought                                                              
to be  addressed and  he would  be happy  to volunteer  if patrols                                                              
are needed.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:32:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
VIRGINIA  BLAINE, South  Knik  River resident,  expressed  concern                                                              
about what passage  of HB 307 will mean to residents  of the area.                                                              
She  said  that  law  enforcement   and  sanitary  facilities  are                                                              
desperately  needed and  there is  a  problem with  indiscriminant                                                              
shooting and  car burnings.  Families would use  the area  if they                                                              
felt safe, but that  isn't the case right now. She  said she hopes                                                              
this  beautiful  area  isn't  ruined  because  legislators  didn't                                                              
envision a better ending.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:34:25 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR WAGONER asked  if this designation wouldn't  address some of                                                              
her concerns.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. BLAINE  replied she doesn't read  the bill that way.  The area                                                              
is  too  large for  one  unarmed  officer  to patrol  and  neither                                                              
sanitary  facilities  nor  the   trash  issue  is  addressed.  She                                                              
clarified that she is not opposed to ATV or four-wheeler use.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
GARY DORSEY,  Knik River  area resident,  said all the  complaints                                                              
he's heard are valid  but he hasn't heard any talk  about reducing                                                              
the use of  ATV's altogether, just  the wild use. He  doesn't want                                                              
to  give up  using his  ATV, but  then he  doesn't use  it to  run                                                              
through salmon  streams or to  endanger moose calving.  Describing                                                              
the area  as dangerous and  a place he  wouldn't take  his family,                                                              
he said  he carries  a gun  for protection  against other  people.                                                              
Noting that  this is a  beautiful area for  all groups to  use, he                                                              
asked  legislators  to  use  integrity   and  non-partisanship  to                                                              
address the concerns.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:37:27 PM                                                                                                                    
STANLEY  CARTER, Mat-Su  LIO, said  this is  a good  bill and  his                                                              
consensus  is that 75  percent of  the people  want the  area left                                                              
open.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:38:18 PM                                                                                                                    
CHARLOTTE SARTOR,  Knik River Valley  area resident, said  she has                                                              
been  a non-motorized  user since  1971.  She said  this a  better                                                              
bill  than  the original,  but  she  would suggest  rewording  the                                                              
section  that  addresses  incompatible  use  to  ensure  that  all                                                              
concerns  are  addressed.  [Abbreviated   testimony  due  to  poor                                                              
audio] Good management is long overdue, she concluded.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:40:37 PM                                                                                                                    
CECILY FRITZ,  Chair, Knik  River Watershed,  said all  use should                                                              
be compatible  with  the purposes  in AS 41.23.180  to ensure  the                                                              
protection  of habitat  and  consider the  interests  of all  user                                                              
groups.  Area residents  want to  be involved  in planning  in the                                                              
adjoining high  public use  area. She  suggested amending  page 3,                                                              
line 13, to help alleviate the residents' fears.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR WAGONER told  Ms. Fritz that he is aware  that she contacted                                                              
his office to  suggest the amendment and if Senator  Huggins finds                                                              
it to  be acceptable,  he would probably  discuss it  with Senator                                                              
Lyda  Green.   As  co-chair  of   the  Finance  Committee   and  a                                                              
representative from  the area she may be able  to accommodate your                                                              
wishes, he said.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:42:02 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  ELTON  said his  understanding  of  the process  is  that                                                              
there is  a public comment period  and a public  survey. Following                                                              
that,  DNR will  draft  a  plan and  take  it out  for  additional                                                              
public comment. He  said it seems as though the  concern addressed                                                              
in the  amendment is addressed  in the estimated  two-year process                                                              
that DNR outlined. He asked her to comment.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. FRITZ  responded the wording  in the  bill is a  bit ambiguous                                                              
in terms  of how much  flexibility managers  will have  to address                                                              
the high use area  and nothing in the bill ensures  that residents                                                              
will  be  part  of  the planning  effort.  If  the  language  were                                                              
improved there  would probably  be more support  for the  bill and                                                              
less opposition.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  ELTON commented  that  Mr.  Mylius described  the  public                                                              
process to  him and he  has found that  you can take  Mr. Milieus'                                                              
word to the bank.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:45:00 PM                                                                                                                    
LYNNE  WOODS,  Mat-Su  Borough assembly  member,  said  since  the                                                              
beginning of  her term on  the assembly  she has heard  about land                                                              
use  problems in  this area.  Residents want  a management  system                                                              
that will  protect traditional  uses such  as hunting  fishing and                                                              
mining and provide  recreational opportunities. Residents  want on                                                              
the ground  enforcement to curb  the unsafe shooting  and aberrant                                                              
behaviors.  Make  sure  the  residents'   concerns  are  met,  she                                                              
concluded.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:46:52 PM                                                                                                                    
ERIC  UHDE,   Public  Lands  Advocate,   Alaska  Center   for  the                                                              
Environment  (ACE),   informed  the   committee  that  ACE   is  a                                                              
grassroots  conservation   organization  that  works   to  protect                                                              
Alaska's  recreational  land.  ACE  is concerned  about  the  Knik                                                              
River watershed  and would argue that resource  protection, safety                                                              
and the high  quality of life on  the Knik are not  major concerns                                                              
of  the Department  of Natural  Resources. He  mentioned that  the                                                              
lack  of  rules and  laws  are  the result  of  zero  enforcement.                                                              
Residents put  up with gunfire,  explosions, burned cars,  and ATV                                                              
misuse.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
ACE  commends  Representative  Stoltze  and  Senator  Huggins  for                                                              
trying  to address  the  problems  on the  Knik.  However, ACE  is                                                              
asking  the committee  to  back  the strong  enforcement  language                                                              
with a  strong enforcement presence.  Throughout the  hearings the                                                              
issue  of enforcement  has not  been  disputed. Everyone  believes                                                              
that  the situation  on  the  ground is  out  of control  and  the                                                              
problems  in  the  area  are too  numerous  and  complex  for  one                                                              
unarmed natural resource specialist to tackle.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
In  conclusion Mr.  Unde asked  the committee  to consider  strong                                                              
enforcement and  what it would add  to the area in terms  of peace                                                              
of mind for local residents and the stewardship of the resource.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:50:43 PM                                                                                                                    
TODD CLARK,  Alaska Outdoor Access  Alliance, Palmer, said  HB 307                                                              
provides a  vehicle to  develop a management  plan to  resolve the                                                              
problems that  have been  aired today. He  suggested that  a major                                                              
point of  disagreement is  whether the  plan set  forth in  HB 307                                                              
would actually  address the problems.  The point he wants  to make                                                              
is that  the bill  does get  the people  that are  using the  area                                                              
together to try  and solve the problems. Mr.  Clark also mentioned                                                              
a lack  of opportunities elsewhere  for motorized vehicle  use and                                                              
the  wonderful  wildlife  resources   in  the  area.  [Abbreviated                                                              
testimony due to poor audio.]                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:53:31 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR WAGONER closed the public hearing.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:53:46 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  RALPH  SEEKINS  referenced  the  section  on  enforcement                                                              
authority under  Section 41.23.210 and  noted that under  Title 16                                                              
for   fish  and   game,  any   departmental   employee  that   the                                                              
commissioner authorizes  is considered to  be a peace  officer. He                                                              
asked if the same would apply here.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MULLIGAN  said  that's  correct.   The  sponsor  specifically                                                              
reviewed the  language from fish  and game, but  other departments                                                              
also utilize that language.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR SEEKINS  asked for clarification  that it is only  for the                                                              
purpose of this chapter.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. MULLIGAN said yes.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  SEEKINS  continued  and  said according  to  an  attorney                                                              
general opinion  for fish and  game, the  employee is not  a peace                                                              
officer under AS  01.10.060 and they don't have  general authority                                                              
to enforce  all other  state criminal  law. He questioned  whether                                                              
the  intention is  to  restrict authority  to  the enforcement  of                                                              
regulations.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. MULLIGAN  said yes. The  idea is that  the DNR  employee would                                                              
focus  on   enforcing  regulations,   but   a  peace  officer   as                                                              
determined by AS  01.10.060 could enforce the regulations  as well                                                              
as the general enforcement duties.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  SEEKINS pointed  out a  third paragraph  in the fish  and                                                              
game  language and  asked  why that  fish  and  game model  wasn't                                                              
followed.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. MULLIGAN deferred to Mr. Mylius.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
DICK  MYLIUS,  Director,  Division  of  Mining,  Land  and  Water,                                                              
Department  of Natural Resources  (DNR) said  quite honestly  they                                                              
didn't consider that option.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  SEEKINS  said since  there  is joint  responsibility  for                                                              
some of  the management functions  in the area, he  would question                                                              
why DNR  wouldn't want a department  employee to also  have police                                                              
powers for enforcing the requirements of this chapter.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. MYLIUS said  under paragraph (1) it say that  the commissioner                                                              
can delegate  the authority to "an  employee of the  department or                                                              
other person authorized  by the commissioner." He  said that could                                                              
include DNR.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR SEEKINS agreed and said he was reasonably satisfied.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  CHARLIE  HUGGINS  said HB  307  places  DNR as  the  lead                                                              
agency.  The difficulty  is that  most people  don't realize  that                                                              
this  legislation   provides  the  framework.  The   bill  doesn't                                                              
mention  things  such as  sanitation  because  that's  not how  it                                                              
works. This is  a stepped process. Certainly everyone  would agree                                                              
that  the status  quo  is not  acceptable  and  having someone  in                                                              
charge is  a good thing.  He said he  would continue to  work with                                                              
all interested parties.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
5:00:49 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  ELTON  said   he  was  struck  by  all   the  talk  about                                                              
enforcement. He  paraphrased page 2,  line 10, and noted  that the                                                              
fiscal  note talks  about  the  DNR employee  who  would  be in  a                                                              
management  position. He  asked for clarification  that DNR  would                                                              
not  be restricted  from developing  a  plan that  would call  for                                                              
additional personnel - particularly enforcement personnel.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. MYLIUS  said that's  correct.  The DNR fiscal  note funds  the                                                              
planning effort  and then  one full-time  person dedicated  to the                                                              
area. DNR  realizes that  one unarmed  person cannot address  some                                                              
of  the  issues  in  the area;  they  were  just  looking  at  DNR                                                              
staffing  needs  to  start  planning   and  get  an  on-the-ground                                                              
presence in the  area. This gets the ball rolling  and through the                                                              
planning process  it identifies  potential solutions,  which could                                                              
involve additional enforcement.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
5:02:43 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  SEEKINS  moved to  report  CSHB 307(RES)  from  committee                                                              
with  individual  recommendations  and  attached  fiscal  note(s).                                                              
There being no objection, it was so ordered.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
There  being no  further business  to come  before the  committee,                                                              
Chair Wagoner adjourned the meeting at 5:03:38 PM.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                

Document Name Date/Time Subjects