Legislature(2005 - 2006)BUTROVICH 205

04/05/2006 03:30 PM RESOURCES

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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
Failed To Move Out Of Committee
Heard & Held
Moved SCS CSHB 380(RES) Out of Committee
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
              SENATE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                         April 5, 2006                                                                                          
                           3:38 p.m.                                                                                            
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
Senator Thomas Wagoner, Chair                                                                                                   
Senator Ralph Seekins, Vice Chair                                                                                               
Senator Ben Stevens                                                                                                             
Senator Fred Dyson                                                                                                              
Senator Bert Stedman                                                                                                            
Senator Kim Elton                                                                                                               
Senator Albert Kookesh                                                                                                          
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 37(FIN) am                                                                                                
"An  Act  relating to  voluntary  land  trades and  purchases  to                                                               
enhance public access to fishing streams."                                                                                      
     FAILED TO MOVE OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                            
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 218(FIN)                                                                                                  
"An  Act   relating  to  cost  recovery   fisheries  for  private                                                               
nonprofit hatchery facilities."                                                                                                 
     HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                             
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 380(FIN)(title am)                                                                                        
"An Act relating to the powers  and duties of the commissioner of                                                               
environmental  conservation regarding  animals, animal  products,                                                               
agricultural  products, and  the  transportation  of animals  and                                                               
animal  products; relating  to the  employment, appointment,  and                                                               
duties   of  a   state  veterinarian   by  the   commissioner  of                                                               
environmental  conservation;  relating  to   the  powers  of  the                                                               
commissioner   of   natural  resources   regarding   agricultural                                                               
products; relating  to animal rabies prevention  and control; and                                                               
providing for an effective date."                                                                                               
     MOVED SCS CSHB 380(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                   
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
BILL: HB  37                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: PUBLIC ACCESS TO FISHING STREAMS                                                                                   
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) GARA                                                                                              
01/10/05       (H)       PREFILE RELEASED 12/30/04                                                                              
01/10/05       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
01/10/05       (H)       FSH, RES                                                                                               
03/21/05       (H)       FSH AT 8:30 AM CAPITOL 124                                                                             
03/21/05       (H)       -- Meeting Canceled --                                                                                 
03/23/05       (H)       FSH AT 8:30 AM CAPITOL 124                                                                             
03/23/05       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/23/05       (H)       MINUTE(FSH)                                                                                            
04/15/05       (H)       FSH AT 8:30 AM CAPITOL 124                                                                             
04/15/05       (H)       Moved CSHB  37(FSH) Out of Committee                                                                   
04/15/05       (H)       MINUTE(FSH)                                                                                            
04/18/05       (H)       FSH RPT CS(FSH) NT 2DP 1DNP 2NR                                                                        
04/18/05       (H)       DP: ELKINS, THOMAS;                                                                                    
04/18/05       (H)       DNP: SALMON;                                                                                           
04/18/05       (H)       NR: KAPSNER, LEDOUX                                                                                    
04/18/05       (H)       FIN REFERRAL ADDED AFTER RES                                                                           
04/22/05       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                             
04/22/05       (H)       Moved CSHB  37(RES) Out of Committee                                                                   
04/22/05       (H)       MINUTE(RES)                                                                                            
04/25/05       (H)       RES RPT CS(RES) NT 2DP 3NR                                                                             
04/25/05       (H)       DP: ELKINS, CRAWFORD;                                                                                  
04/25/05       (H)       NR: OLSON, SAMUELS, LEDOUX                                                                             
05/07/05       (H)       FIN AT 2:00 PM HOUSE FINANCE 519                                                                       
05/07/05       (H)       Moved CSHB  37(FIN) Out of Committee                                                                   
05/07/05       (H)       MINUTE(FIN)                                                                                            
05/08/05       (H)       FIN RPT CS(FIN) NT 3DP 6NR 1AM                                                                         
05/08/05       (H)       DP: CROFT, FOSTER, MOSES;                                                                              
05/08/05       (H)       NR: HAWKER, HOLM, STOLTZE, WEYHRAUCH,                                                                  
                         JOULE, MEYER;                                                                                          
05/08/05       (H)       AM: KELLY                                                                                              
05/09/05       (H)       TRANSMITTED TO (S)                                                                                     
05/09/05       (H)       VERSION: CSHB 37(FIN) AM                                                                               
05/10/05       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
05/10/05       (S)       RES, FIN                                                                                               
02/06/06       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
02/06/06       (S)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
02/06/06       (S)       MINUTE(RES)                                                                                            
02/13/06       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
02/13/06       (S)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
02/13/06       (S)       MINUTE(RES)                                                                                            
04/05/06       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
BILL: HB 218                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: PRIVATE HATCHERY COST RECOVERY FISHERIES                                                                           
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) THOMAS                                                                                            
03/15/05       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
03/15/05       (H)       FSH, RES                                                                                               
03/16/05       (H)       FSH AT 8:30 AM CAPITOL 124                                                                             
03/16/05       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/16/05       (H)       MINUTE(FSH)                                                                                            
04/15/05       (H)       FSH AT 8:30 AM CAPITOL 124                                                                             
04/15/05       (H)       Moved CSHB 218(FSH) Out of Committee                                                                   
04/15/05       (H)       MINUTE(FSH)                                                                                            
04/18/05       (H)       FSH RPT CS(FSH) 3DP 3NR                                                                                
04/18/05       (H)       DP: WILSON, ELKINS, THOMAS;                                                                            
04/18/05       (H)       NR: HARRIS, SALMON, LEDOUX                                                                             
04/20/05       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                             
04/20/05       (H)       -- Meeting Canceled --                                                                                 
04/22/05       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                             
04/22/05       (H)       Moved CSHB 218(RES) Out of Committee                                                                   
04/22/05       (H)       MINUTE(RES)                                                                                            
04/25/05       (H)       RES RPT CS(RES) 2DP 3NR                                                                                
04/25/05       (H)       DP: CRAWFORD, ELKINS;                                                                                  
04/25/05       (H)       NR: LEDOUX, OLSON, SAMUELS                                                                             
04/25/05       (H)       FIN REFERRAL ADDED AFTER RES                                                                           
04/27/05       (H)       FIN AT 1:30 PM HOUSE FINANCE 519                                                                       
04/27/05       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
04/27/05       (H)       MINUTE(FIN)                                                                                            
04/28/05       (H)       FIN RPT CS(FIN) 3DP 4NR                                                                                
04/28/05       (H)       DP: HAWKER, FOSTER, CHENAULT;                                                                          
04/28/05       (H)       NR: JOULE, MOSES, HOLM, KELLY                                                                          
04/28/05       (H)       FIN AT 8:30 AM HOUSE FINANCE 519                                                                       
04/28/05       (H)       Moved CSHB 218(FIN) Out of Committee                                                                   
04/28/05       (H)       MINUTE(FIN)                                                                                            
04/29/05       (H)       TRANSMITTED TO (S)                                                                                     
04/29/05       (H)       VERSION: CSHB 218(FIN)                                                                                 
05/01/05       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
05/01/05       (S)       FIN                                                                                                    
05/06/05       (S)       RES REFERRAL ADDED BEFORE FIN                                                                          
05/06/05       (S)       FIN AT 4:30 PM SENATE FINANCE 532                                                                      
05/06/05       (S)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
05/06/05       (S)       MINUTE(FIN)                                                                                            
04/05/06       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
BILL: HB 380                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: ANIMALS & ANIMAL OR AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTS                                                                          
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) MEYER                                                                                             
01/18/06       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
01/18/06       (H)       RES, FIN                                                                                               
02/06/06       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                             
02/06/06       (H)       Moved CSHB 380(RES) Out of Committee                                                                   
02/06/06       (H)       MINUTE(RES)                                                                                            
02/08/06       (H)       RES RPT CS(RES) NT 7DP                                                                                 
02/08/06       (H)       DP: GATTO, OLSON, ELKINS, LEDOUX,                                                                      
                         CRAWFORD, SAMUELS, RAMRAS                                                                              
02/28/06       (H)       FIN AT 1:30 PM HOUSE FINANCE 519                                                                       
02/28/06       (H)       Moved CSHB 380(FIN) Out of Committee                                                                   
02/28/06       (H)       MINUTE(FIN)                                                                                            
03/01/06       (H)       FIN RPT CS(FIN) NT 2DP 7NR                                                                             
03/01/06       (H)       DP: FOSTER, MEYER;                                                                                     
03/01/06       (H)       NR: KERTTULA, STOLTZE, HAWKER, KELLY,                                                                  
                         WEYHRAUCH, MOSES, CHENAULT                                                                             
03/20/06       (H)       TRANSMITTED TO (S)                                                                                     
03/20/06       (H)       VERSION: CSHB 380(FIN)(TITLE AM)                                                                       
03/22/06       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
03/22/06       (S)       RES, FIN                                                                                               
04/05/06       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
REPRESENTATIVE LES GARA                                                                                                         
Alaska State Capitol                                                                                                            
Juneau, AK 99801-1182                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Sponsor of HB 37.                                                                                        
DICK MYLIUS, Director                                                                                                           
Division of Mining, Land, and Water                                                                                             
Department of Natural Resources                                                                                                 
400 Willoughby Ave.                                                                                                             
Juneau, AK  99801-1724                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported HB 37.                                                                                         
IAN FISK, Staff                                                                                                                 
Representative Bill Thomas                                                                                                      
Alaska State Capitol                                                                                                            
Juneau, AK 99801-1182                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Introduced HB 218 for the sponsor                                                                        
KEVIN MCDOUGALL, President                                                                                                      
Board of Directors                                                                                                              
Northern Southeast Regional Aquaculture Association (NSRAA)                                                                     
Juneau, AK                                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Expressed doubts about HB 218.                                                                           
DIANE PLATT                                                                                                                     
Cordova District Fishermen United (CDFU)                                                                                        
Cordova, AK                                                                                                                     
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported HB 218.                                                                                        
ERIC JORDAN,                                                                                                                    
Commercial Fisherman                                                                                                            
Sitka, AK                                                                                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT:  HB 218 needs further work but he applauds                                                                
the bill direction.                                                                                                             
DEBRA LYONS, Secretary/Treasurer,                                                                                               
Board of Directors                                                                                                              
Northern Southeast Regional Aquaculture Association (NSRAA)                                                                     
POSITION STATEMENT:  Asked the committee to hold HB 218 for                                                                   
additional work.                                                                                                                
DAN CASTLE, President,                                                                                                          
Southeast Alaska Seiners Association (SEAS)                                                                                     
Ketchikan, AK                                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported HB 218.                                                                                        
BRUCE WALLACE                                                                                                                   
Commercial Fisherman                                                                                                            
Ketchikan, AK                                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported SB 218.                                                                                        
JERRY McCUNE                                                                                                                    
United Fishermen of Alaska                                                                                                      
Juneau, AK                                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported HB 218.                                                                                        
BOB THORSTENSON, Executive Director                                                                                             
Southeast Alaska Seiners Association (SEAS)                                                                                     
Juneau, AK                                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported HB 218                                                                                         
MITCH EIDE, Board Member                                                                                                        
Southeast Alaska Seiners Association (SEAS)                                                                                     
Petersburg, AK                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Asked the committee to support HB 218.                                                                   
MICHAEL PAWLOWSKI, Staff                                                                                                        
Representative Kevin Meyer                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Introduced HB 380 on behalf of the sponsor.                                                              
DR. GERLACH, State Veterinarian                                                                                                 
Department of Environmental Conservation                                                                                        
410 Willoughby                                                                                                                  
Juneau, AK 99801-1795                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:   Said  HB 380  is important  for controlling                                                             
the spread of infectious disease.                                                                                               
DR. LOUISA CASTRODALE                                                                                                           
Division of Public Health                                                                                                       
Department of Health and Social Services                                                                                        
POSITION STATEMENT:  Expressed full support for HB 380                                                                        
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
CHAIR  THOMAS  WAGONER  called   the  Senate  Resources  Standing                                                             
Committee  meeting to  order at  3:38:20 PM.  Present at  call to                                                             
order were  Senators Ben Stevens, Stedman,  Seekins, Dyson, Elton                                                               
and Chair Wagoner. Senator Kookesh arrived shortly.                                                                             
       CSHB  37(FIN) AM-PUBLIC ACCESS TO FISHING STREAMS                                                                    
CHAIR  THOMAS WAGONER  announced CSHB  37(FIN)  AM to  be up  for                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE LES  GARA, sponsor  of HB  37, explained  that the                                                               
bill asks the  Department of Natural Resources (DNR)  to create a                                                               
list of  areas where  public access to  fishing streams  might be                                                               
lost when  the land is  developed. He mentioned Montana  Creek in                                                               
the Mat-Su Valley, the Anchor River  on the Kenai, and Deep Creek                                                               
on the  Kenai as examples  and said  people have been  fishing in                                                               
these areas  for years and  nobody has  cared that the  access is                                                               
across private land. That might not  be the case in the future so                                                               
HB  37 is  a proactive  step  to negotiate  for continued  public                                                               
access before  the lands are  developed and become  too expensive                                                               
to return to the public domain.                                                                                                 
3:40:27 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR DYSON asked  if DNR or the administration  approve of the                                                               
DICK  MYLIUS,  Director, Division  of  Mining,  Land, and  Water,                                                               
Department of  Natural Resources,  replied DNR  believes it  is a                                                               
good  idea to  identify  access points,  but  it recognizes  that                                                               
there is  an associated cost. The  bill simply sets up  a process                                                               
whereby  the Alaska  Department of  Fish and  Game (ADF&G)  would                                                               
identify  where access  is  needed and  DNR  would determine  the                                                               
options and  costs for the acquisitions.  It would then be  up to                                                               
the legislature to fund the acquisitions or not.                                                                                
SENATOR STEDMAN  expressed concern with the  long-term effects of                                                               
creating a  list because the language  in the bill is  a lot more                                                               
aggressive than what is implied.                                                                                                
CHAIR  WAGONER  noted the  proposed  amendments  that change  the                                                               
3:42:57 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  BEN STEVENS  asked where  the  bill says  that the  list                                                               
comes back to the legislature for authorization.                                                                                
MR. MYLIUS replied it is on page 3, line 10.                                                                                    
CHAIR WAGONER  noted that the  bill says that before  February of                                                               
each year the  commissioner of fish and game shall  submit a plan                                                               
to acquire  public access  to fish and  wildlife, but  it doesn't                                                               
say it goes back to the legislature.                                                                                            
SENATOR  BEN STEVENS  asked Mr.  Mylius if  that is  where he  is                                                               
saying the plan has to go  to the legislature for approval of the                                                               
appropriation to execute the plan the following fiscal year.                                                                    
MR. MYLIUS acknowledged  it doesn't say it exactly,  but when the                                                               
fiscal notes were  prepared DNR assumed there would  not be money                                                               
in  the  bill  for  acquisitions. The  assumption  was  that  the                                                               
department  would  have  to  return to  the  legislature  with  a                                                               
subsequent request.  For a purchase  the request would be  for an                                                               
appropriation for a specific purpose  and for a land exchange the                                                               
request would ask for financing to fund the exchange.                                                                           
SENATOR  BEN  STEVENS  asked  if  the  assumption  was  that  the                                                               
department  would  ask  the  legislature   for  approval  of  the                                                               
authorization to  expend the  funds, but  not approval  to select                                                               
the land.                                                                                                                       
MR. MYLIUS replied that is correct.                                                                                             
SENATOR  BEN STEVENS  recalled that  the original  bill mentioned                                                               
the acquisition  of only two  miles, but according  to subsection                                                               
(c) two miles would be acquired each year.                                                                                      
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA replied  there  is an  amendment to  address                                                               
that issue, but  the intention was for the list  to include a set                                                               
number of  miles. There ought to  be minimum number of  miles for                                                               
DNR to identify  each year but the state  probably won't purchase                                                               
everything  on the  list each  year. In  fact, it  probably won't                                                               
purchase  through the  list in  a decade.  "It's not  like you'll                                                               
have a new  2 or 3 or 4  miles every year. It'll just  be as it's                                                               
purchased through."  The list will  probably look the  same until                                                               
the legislature decides to buy.                                                                                                 
3:47:23 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR KOOKESH joined the meeting.                                                                                             
3:47:33 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR WAGONER mentioned that the amendment  says 2 to 5 miles per                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE GARA said it's the  committee's discretion so long                                                               
as the top number isn't too high.                                                                                               
CHAIR  WAGONER closed  the  public hearing.  He  noted the  three                                                               
amendments and asked for a motion.                                                                                              
3:48:39 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  FRED  DYSON  moved  CSHB 37(FIN)  AM,  Version  X.A  for                                                               
SENATOR BERT STEDMAN objected.                                                                                                  
SENATOR KIM ELTON moved to adopt Amendment 1, labeled X.A.3.                                                                    
                      A M E N D M E N T 1                                                                                   
OFFERED IN THE SENATE                                                                                                           
     TO:  CSHB 37(FIN) am                                                                                                       
Page 3, line 13, following "two":                                                                                               
Insert "and not more than a total of five"                                                                                      
SENATOR  DYSON  called a  point  of  order  saying there  was  an                                                               
objection to moving the bill.                                                                                                   
CHAIR  WAGONER clarified  that the  objection was  for discussion                                                               
purposes so the bill is before the committee.                                                                                   
SENATOR ELTON restated his motion.                                                                                              
SENATOR BEN STEVENS objected.                                                                                                   
SENATOR ELTON  said the  sponsor took  note when  Senator Stedman                                                               
identified  the open-ended  language, which  required "a  minimum                                                               
access to  not less  than a  total of  two meander  miles..." The                                                               
proposed amendment  tightens the language by  inserting "not more                                                               
than a total  of five meander miles". Therefore,  over time there                                                               
would be  no additions to the  plan until the list  dropped below                                                               
two miles.                                                                                                                      
SENATOR  STEDMAN  responded  the language  is  still  problematic                                                               
because there would  be an action every year and  in his view the                                                               
more land  that is kept  in private hands,  the better it  is for                                                               
the state.                                                                                                                      
SENATOR ELTON explained that the  amendment caps the plan, but it                                                               
doesn't change other restricting  components in the bill. Nothing                                                               
compels  an easement  or a  sale; it  specifically says  that the                                                               
right of eminent  domain may not be exercised to  acquire land or                                                               
interest in land.                                                                                                               
CHAIR  WAGONER  asked  Senator   Stevens  if  he  maintained  his                                                               
SENATOR STEVENS asked where it says  it will cap the plan because                                                               
he interpreted the language differently.                                                                                        
3:54:20 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  ELTON explained  that the  departments will  proffer one                                                               
plan and it may  have not less than 2 miles and  not more than 5.                                                               
He  looked to  the sponsor  and said  he didn't  believe anything                                                               
would preclude  the departments from  having a new plan  the next                                                               
year  that may  not include  or identify  the same  stream access                                                               
points. However,  if the departments  submit a new plan  it would                                                               
be  restricted, just  as the  old plan  was, to  not less  than 2                                                               
meander miles  and more not more  than 5. The cap  applies to the                                                               
meander miles;  it doesn't preclude the  department from changing                                                               
or identifying other meander miles.                                                                                             
3:55:42 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR BEN STEVENS countered his  reading is that there shall be                                                               
2 to  5 miles  acquired every  year and  there is  no cap  on the                                                               
number of  miles acquired in  the plan. Hypothetically,  he said,                                                               
50 meander miles  of riverbank could be acquired in  10 years. He                                                               
asked if his interpretation was incorrect.                                                                                      
SENATOR  ELTON  replied  no,  but  you would  only  get  to  that                                                               
position  if the  legislature authorized  access  to all  meander                                                               
miles in  the plan. You could  only add miles if  access has been                                                               
provided  to  all the  areas  in  the  plan.  At that  point  the                                                               
department could  add meander  miles in  a subsequent  plan. That                                                               
would only  occur after  the legislature has  made a  decision to                                                               
appropriate funds to acquire the access.                                                                                        
3:57:18 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE GARA  said Senator  Elton explained  the intention                                                               
of the bill,  but Senator Stevens raised a good  point. The state                                                               
probably won't  purchase access to  all the  land that is  on the                                                               
list each year so the departments  should not be required to keep                                                               
submitting a  new list each  year even if  it's the same  one. He                                                               
suggested  inserting  language to  clarify  that  an annual  plan                                                               
isn't required  as long as  at least 2  miles remain on  the list                                                               
for future acquisition.                                                                                                         
He offered to work with the committee on a conceptual amendment.                                                                
3:58:02 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  BEN  STEVENS  said  he  wasn't prepared  to  work  on  a                                                               
conceptual amendment;  he had additional concerns.  For instance,                                                               
Section 2, subsection  (b)(2), gives the commissioner  of DNR the                                                               
authority  to  trade   state  land  for  private   land  with  no                                                               
legislative  approval or  fiscal  note transaction.  There is  no                                                               
understanding that  an assessment  would be  done, that  the land                                                               
trade  would be  at fair  market  value and  that it  would be  a                                                               
transaction of equal value. The  commissioner could trade 5 miles                                                               
each   year  and   although  it   wouldn't  cost   anything,  the                                                               
legislature wouldn't have any authority to prevent it.                                                                          
MR. MYLIUS  replied while the  bill doesn't  specifically require                                                               
DNR to go back to the  legislature, the only way a purchase could                                                               
occur  is  through  the  budget   process.  He  agreed  that  the                                                               
department could exchange land  without legislative approval, but                                                               
there's  already a  process for  that. However,  the statute  for                                                               
land  exchange  requires an  exchange  at  fair market  appraised                                                               
value or, in its absence, it requires legislative approval.                                                                     
CHAIR WAGONER said the question  before the committee is adoption                                                               
of Amendment X.A.3.                                                                                                             
4:02:06 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  ELTON argued  in favor  of the  amendment because  it is                                                               
controlling and  precludes a large  land trade by placing  a top-                                                               
end cap.                                                                                                                        
SENATOR DYSON called a question on the amendment.                                                                               
A roll call  vote was taken. The motion to  adopt Amendment X.A.3                                                               
passed  with 4  yeas and  3 nays.  Senator Dyson,  Senator Elton,                                                               
Senator Kookesh  and Senator Wagoner  voted in favor  and Senator                                                               
Stedman, Senator Ben Stevens, and Senator Seekins voted against.                                                                
CHAIR WAGONER said he would  hold his amendments because he could                                                               
see the direction the bill  was going. He noted Senator Stedman's                                                               
objection to the bill and asked for a roll call.                                                                                
A roll  call vote  was taken and  Senator Elton,  Senator Kookesh                                                               
and  Senator Dyson  voted yea  and Senator  Stedman, Senator  Ben                                                               
Stevens, Senator Seekins and Senator Wagoner voted nay.                                                                         
CSHB 37(FIN) AM failed to move from committee.                                                                                  
     CSHB(FIN) 218-PRIVATE HATCHERY COST RECOVERY FISHERIES                                                                 
CHAIR WAGONER announced HB 218 to be up for consideration.                                                                      
IAN  FISK, staff  to Representative  Bill  Thomas, presented  the                                                               
bill on  behalf of the  sponsor and clarified that  the committee                                                               
was working  from Version R  that passed the House.  He explained                                                               
that HB  218 addresses  the way  hatcheries recover  costs. Under                                                               
the  current system  a hatchery  takes bids  from processors  for                                                               
recovery  of  the  anticipated return  and  allocates  a  certain                                                               
percentage  of  the  harvest as  cost  recovery.  The  percentage                                                               
varies from hatchery to hatchery.                                                                                               
The intent  of the bill  is to maximize  the benefit to  the user                                                               
groups  and so  HB  218  creates a  system  whereby the  hatchery                                                               
operator has the  option of collecting the  cost recovery through                                                               
a  fishery that  is open  to all  fishermen who  hold permits  to                                                               
harvest fish in the hatchery area.                                                                                              
MR. FISK explained that for a  hatchery to be able to recover its                                                               
costs through  a common property  fishery there would have  to be                                                               
an assessment on the fish  that are harvested specifically in the                                                               
cost  recovery  area. That  terminal  harvest  area is  typically                                                               
located directly in  front of a hatchery or  remote release site.                                                               
The Board of  Fisheries or the commissioner  of Alaska Department                                                               
of Fish and Game (ADF&G) sets the boundaries.                                                                                   
The language in the bill  establishes an assessment between 1 and                                                               
40  percent of  the  value of  the fish.  The  proceeds would  be                                                               
recovered in a manner similar  to the salmon enhancement tax. The                                                               
hatcheries would not collect the tax.                                                                                           
MR. FISK emphasized  that this is optional and  the sponsor would                                                               
not  support making  it mandatory.  He has  worked with  hatchery                                                               
operators  to reach  a comfort  zone and  is willing  to continue                                                               
doing so.                                                                                                                       
4:11:39 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR WAGONER stated he intended to hold the bill until Friday.                                                                 
4:12:18 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR STEDMAN said  he had a meeting on the  bill earlier today                                                               
and  the  version  that  was   discussed  wasn't  Version  R.  He                                                               
appreciated  the additional  time  to consider  the bill  because                                                               
that alone has created confusion.                                                                                               
CHAIR  WAGONER said  a suggested  CS  came out  of the  sponsor's                                                               
office,  but  there  would  be a  Senate  Resource  Committee  CS                                                               
presented on Friday.                                                                                                            
MR.  FISK commented,  "The  version that  we've  been working  on                                                               
reflects a  lot of the  changes that have  been worked on  in the                                                               
Interim... We've  just tried to  address some of  the hatcheries'                                                               
concerns." There is nothing in  it that is drastically different.                                                               
He noted that  he had a list  of the changes that  have been made                                                               
as the  bill moved  through the  process to  accommodate concerns                                                               
and the idea is to work with the hatcheries to keep it optional.                                                                
SENATOR BEN STEVENS asked if Version B is the work draft.                                                                       
MR. FISK  said Version B  is a  work draft that  reflects changes                                                               
made in response  to hatchery concerns. Those changes  are not in                                                               
Version R.                                                                                                                      
CHAIR  WAGONER clarified  that  Version B  was  discussed in  the                                                               
meeting Senator Stedman mentioned.                                                                                              
CHAIR WAGONER opened public testimony.                                                                                          
4:15:23 PM                                                                                                                    
KEVIN   MCDOUGALL,   President,   Northern   Southeast   Regional                                                               
Aquaculture  Association (NSRAA)  Board of  Directors, said  cost                                                               
recovery is a difficult issue but  HB 218 is a knee-jerk reaction                                                               
to low  returns. The  NSRAA Board  is open to  ways to  deal with                                                               
this issue  and has decided it  will not oppose the  bill but the                                                               
fact remains  that it does  have reservations about it.  He urged                                                               
the committee  to review the  documents that NSRAA  has submitted                                                               
before  making  a  decision   on  the  legislation.  [Abbreviated                                                               
testimony due to audio difficulties.]                                                                                           
4:20:05 PM                                                                                                                    
DIANE  PLATT, Cordova  District Fishermen  United (CDFU),  stated                                                               
support for  HB 218.  CDFU believes  that many  fishermen support                                                               
the  effort to  get away  from existing  processor practices  and                                                               
this is a good starting point.                                                                                                  
4:20:51 PM                                                                                                                    
ERIC  JORDAN,  Sitka  commercial  fisherman, said  HB  218  needs                                                               
further  consideration, but  he  applauds  the direction  because                                                               
there is  a problem with the  current cost recovery. There  was a                                                               
fundamental  error when  cost  recovery  was established  because                                                               
there was no intention to pay  for it through the common property                                                               
fishery. He  said that HB  218 is  going in the  right direction,                                                               
but the  details require work. He  suggested a change on  page 2,                                                               
lines 7-10  and said it  would be a good  idea to appoint  a task                                                               
force to  look at  the problem  of cost recovery  not going  to a                                                               
common property fishery.                                                                                                        
4:26:40 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR ELTON  explained that  component of  the bill  is telling                                                               
the  Board of  Fisheries  it can  adopt  regulations regarding  a                                                               
fisheries  management plan  that includes  allocation plans,  but                                                               
doesn't preclude  anything else. He  said it might make  sense to                                                               
use the  language that's  there and  do it  through the  Board of                                                               
Fisheries process  rather than  micromanaging the  regulations in                                                               
statute. He asked Mr. Jordan to respond.                                                                                        
MR. JORDAN  said he  agreed with concept,  but the  more specific                                                               
guidance the legislature  provides as to intent  the better. This                                                               
is a  big issue,  he said,  and we need  to rethink  the terminal                                                               
harvest or special harvest areas  if we're going to conduct these                                                               
types of fisheries for all gear groups.                                                                                         
4:28:43 PM                                                                                                                    
DEBRA  LYONS,  Secretary/Treasurer,  NSRAA  Board  of  Directors,                                                               
asked the  committee not to  not pass HB  219 until more  work is                                                               
done.  She  noted  that  the  fiscal notes  state  zero  and  the                                                               
Department of Revenue  fiscal note comments say  the bill doesn't                                                               
authorize  it   to  enforce  assessments.  She   asked  when  the                                                               
enforcement would  occur if  nothing is  budgeted to  enforce the                                                               
language in the bill. A  further comment states that a successful                                                               
program needs regular staffing yet nothing is budgeted for that.                                                                
As a member  of the NSRAA board, she is  interested in preserving                                                               
flexibility  to respond  to changes  during the  season. If  this                                                               
were to  pass, she  understands that  NSRAA would  be bound  to a                                                               
common  property fishery  at the  assessment established  for the                                                               
year  regardless of  the strength  of the  return. This  would be                                                               
particularly  problematic  in  years  in  which  the  anticipated                                                               
return was stronger than what  materialized. The bill has further                                                               
inflexibility  in that  it  would bind  NSRAA's  ability to  fund                                                               
operating reserves to 100 percent  and it doesn't allow the board                                                               
flexibility  in   setting  financial   policies  and   in  making                                                               
financial decisions.                                                                                                            
A further concern relates to  risk. A worst-case scenario is that                                                               
the  NSRAA Board  and  the  fishermen agree,  in  good faith,  to                                                               
participate in the  common property fishery, but  when the season                                                               
comes along the fishermen choose  not to participate. NSRAA would                                                               
have no  fish taken for cost  recovery and would have  nothing in                                                               
place with  buyers to conduct  a tradition cost  recovery fishery                                                               
on such short notice.                                                                                                           
MS.  LYONS referenced  subsection  (d) on  page  2 and  suggested                                                               
changing the wording to, "The  Department of Revenue will set the                                                               
assessment based on the recommendation  of the board of directors                                                               
of the  affected hatchery."  She said  she didn't  understand the                                                               
difference between  this assessment and a  tax and why it  can be                                                               
adopted without a vote of the fishermen.                                                                                        
MS.  LYONS   said  there  is  little   understanding  of  NSRAA's                                                               
strategic  plans to  diversify their  cost recovery  fishery over                                                               
time to  allow more Chinook and  Coho to be harvested  and reduce                                                               
the  burden  on  the  Chum  fishery.  She  suggested  that  other                                                               
alternatives could  be explored. Perhaps the  sport fishery could                                                               
contribute   something   toward   NSRAA's   operation   and   the                                                               
aquaculture tax could  be increased a little.  That combined with                                                               
relying  on  other  species  for revenue  would  be  a  preferred                                                               
solution to HB 218. She reiterated her request to hold the bill.                                                                
4:36:19 PM                                                                                                                    
DAN  CASTLE,  President,  Southeast  Alaska  Seiners  Association                                                               
(SEAS), said a  vast majority of the SEAS  membership accepts the                                                               
idea  of   doing  something  different  with   cost  recovery  in                                                               
Southeast  Alaska. Cost  recovery programs  have evolved  and are                                                               
required to take an increasing  amount of hatchery return and the                                                               
benefit is  spreading to  the fishermen. SEAS  would like  to see                                                               
the returns  pass through  the fish holds  of the  fishermen that                                                               
are  making a  living  from fishing.  This  would strengthen  the                                                               
relationship that individual fishermen have with processors.                                                                    
MR.  CASTLE  emphasized   that  the  language  in   the  bill  is                                                               
permissive and reiterated supported for HB 218.                                                                                 
4:39:03 PM                                                                                                                    
BRUCE WALLACE,  commercial fisherman from Ketchikan,  said SB 218                                                               
is just  a tool.  The cost  recovery program  is not  working and                                                               
change  needs  to  occur.  He  agreed  with  Senator  Elton  that                                                               
micromanaging cost  recovery through  statute probably  isn't the                                                               
answer and  the decisions are  probably better left to  the Board                                                               
of  Fisheries.  Since  the language  is  permissive  and  doesn't                                                               
mandate that NSRAA  or any non-profit use the  tool, he suggested                                                               
it is an appropriate vehicle to  expand the toolkit. He urged the                                                               
committee to support HB 218.                                                                                                    
4:41:21 PM                                                                                                                    
JERRY McCUNE, United  Fishermen of Alaska, stated  support for HB                                                               
218.  He thanked  the sponsor  for accommodating  the hatcheries'                                                               
Referencing  page  2,  line  10,  he  noted  that  the  Board  of                                                               
Fisheries already  has the authority  to review  allocation plans                                                               
among user groups of hatchery stocks  and to close a fishery if a                                                               
run is weak and isn't sufficient  for cost recovery or to get the                                                               
brood  stock. All  this bill  does is  let fishermen  come to  an                                                               
agreement with  a hatchery to be  able to take fish  under common                                                               
property and  sell them  to the processor  so the  fishermen have                                                               
access and aren't  sitting around waiting for the  hatchery to do                                                               
the common property harvest.                                                                                                    
With  regard  to subsection  (b)  he  said the  attorney  general                                                               
advised that  it has to  be in the bill;  it is part  of existing                                                               
4:44:49 PM                                                                                                                    
BOB  THORSTENSON, Executive  Director,  Southeast Alaska  Seiners                                                               
Association (SEAS),  referenced Ms.  Lyons' concern  regarding an                                                               
assessment fishery without  a vote of the  fishermen and reminded                                                               
her  that the  current cost  recovery is  without a  vote of  the                                                               
fishermen.  He  said if  SEAS  members  were polled,  they  would                                                               
overwhelmingly vote  to eliminate cost recovery.  Furthermore, he                                                               
said,  SEAS  fishermen are  willing  to  pay  to cover  the  cost                                                               
recovery goals  in Southeast,  but they don't  want to  put those                                                               
costs on the back of  other gear groups. Regarding the suggestion                                                               
for a task  force, he said that approach has  been tried for many                                                               
years and HB 218 is partially the result of a task force.                                                                       
Under this  legislation the people  who catch the fish  would pay                                                               
the tax. "We're willing  to pay the tax so we  can have our boats                                                               
working and not have just a  few people catching all the fish and                                                               
one processor  processing all the  fish," he said.  SEAS believes                                                               
it  has  to  be  in  statute  and that  paying  the  tax  is  the                                                               
responsible thing to do.                                                                                                        
4:47:46 PM                                                                                                                    
MITCH EIDE,  Petersburg, Board  Member, Southeast  Alaska Seiners                                                               
Association, asked  the committee  to support  HB 218  because it                                                               
will  give  fishermen access  to  more  fish through  the  common                                                               
property fishery.                                                                                                               
CHAIR WAGONER closed public hearing  and held HB 218 in committee                                                               
to allow time to prepare a committee substitute.                                                                                
   CSHB 380)(FIN)(Title am)-ANIMALS & ANIMAL OR AGRICULTURAL                                                                
CHAIR  WAGONER announced  CSHB 380(FIN)(title  am) to  be up  for                                                               
4:51:37 PM                                                                                                                    
MICHAEL PAWLOWSKI,  staff to Representative Kevin  Meyer, said HB                                                               
380  addresses  the  state's  ability   to  respond  to  emerging                                                               
diseases.  The dilemma  arises because  the  statute was  written                                                               
prior  to statehood  when animals  were limited  to livestock  or                                                               
poultry. Thus  the state  veterinarian and  the state  don't have                                                               
the authority to  inspect, quarantine, or deal  with animals that                                                               
fall outside the definition of livestock.                                                                                       
HB  380 repeals  and reenacts  the powers  relating to  the state                                                               
veterinarian, updates  the powers and defines  animals and animal                                                               
products. It will  enable the state to respond in  the event that                                                               
Avian  Influenza of  another  disease comes  into  Alaska in  the                                                               
animal population.                                                                                                              
4:54:03 PM                                                                                                                    
DR.  GERLACH,  State  Veterinarian, Department  of  Environmental                                                               
Conservation (DEC), said HB 380  is important for controlling the                                                               
spread  of infectious  disease because  it's  recognized that  70                                                               
percent  of  new  diseases  affecting   human  health  come  from                                                               
animals.  Such diseases  affect animal  health, food  production,                                                               
and human health  as well as local and national  economies so the                                                               
impact can be widespread.                                                                                                       
Currently  the  State  Veterinarian's  authority  is  limited  to                                                               
control  of certain  types of  diseases, but  there is  no single                                                               
agency  in Alaska  that  has authority  to  manage the  different                                                               
categories of animals that are  capable of carrying diseases into                                                               
the  state   that  can  severely  threaten   the  state's  animal                                                               
resources as well as public health.                                                                                             
4:57:32 PM                                                                                                                    
DR. LOUISA  CASTRODALE, Division of Public  Health, Department of                                                               
Health and Social  Services testified on behalf  of the director,                                                               
Dr. Richard Mandsager in full support of HB 380.                                                                                
CHAIR WAGONER closed  the public hearing and  asked the committee                                                               
if there were questions or discussion.                                                                                          
4:58:10 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR SEEKINS moved to adopt Amendment 1, labeled IA.1.                                                                       
                      A M E N D M E N T 1                                                                                   
OFFERED IN THE SENATE                                                                                                           
     TO:  CSHB 380(FIN)(title am)                                                                                               
Page 2, line 28:                                                                                                                
     Delete "and"                                                                                                               
     Insert new paragraphs to read:                                                                                             
               "(3)  enter into agreements with the federal                                                                     
     government for  controlling disease among animals  and match                                                               
     federal   payments  for   animals   destroyed  under   those                                                               
     agreements  from   any  appropriation  available   for  this                                                               
               (4)  pay an owner of an animal destroyed under                                                                   
     this section an amount from any appropriation available for                                                                
     this purpose; and"                                                                                                         
Renumber the following paragraph accordingly.                                                                                   
Page 7, line 23, following "03.45.060":                                                                                         
Insert ", 03.45.070, 03.45.080"                                                                                                 
BEN STEVENS objected for discussion purposes.                                                                                   
SENATOR SEEKINS explained that the  amendment would enable DEC to                                                               
work  with the  legislature  and the  federal  government in  the                                                               
event of  an emergency to  ensure that the  agricultural industry                                                               
isn't decimated by  a disease outbreak. It would  also provide an                                                               
updated vehicle  for compensation to  an owner of an  animal that                                                               
was destroyed to control the spread  of disease if funds are made                                                               
available for that  purpose. Finally it inserts  AS 03.45.070 and                                                               
AS 03.45.080 in the repealer section.                                                                                           
5:01:50 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR KIM ELTON asked if DEC suggested the amendment.                                                                         
SENATOR SEEKINS  replied people  in the  farming industry  in the                                                               
Delta  area  who  have  dairy   and  beef  cattle  suggested  the                                                               
amendment. He believes the Farm Bureau and DEC support it.                                                                      
5:02:36 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR ELTON  asked if  this gives DEC  and the  legislature the                                                               
authority  to  elect  to  indemnify   an  owner  if  the  federal                                                               
government orders an animal to be destroyed.                                                                                    
SENATOR  SEEKINS  replied  yes.  The legislature  would  need  to                                                               
appropriate the money,  but it would allow a  federal funds match                                                               
if the  legislature so  elected. It also  broadens the  scope and                                                               
increases the flexibility  in ways to use federal  funds and work                                                               
with new parameters  as they may develop.  Current statutes allow                                                               
just dairy cattle.                                                                                                              
SENATOR STEVENS removed his objection.                                                                                          
CHAIR  WAGONER  announced  that without  objection  Amendment  1,                                                               
labeled IA.1, was adopted.                                                                                                      
5:04:52 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR SEEKINS moved to report  SCS CSHB 380(RES) from committee                                                               
with  individual  recommendations  and attached  fiscal  note(s).                                                               
There was no objection and it was so ordered.                                                                                   
There being  no further  business to  come before  the committee,                                                               
Chair Wagoner adjourned the meeting at 5:05:56 PM.                                                                            

Document Name Date/Time Subjects