Legislature(2005 - 2006)BUTROVICH 205

02/13/2006 03:30 PM RESOURCES

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Scheduled But Not Heard
Heard & Held
Heard & Held
Moved SB 213 Out of Committee
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
              SENATE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                       February 13, 2006                                                                                        
                           3:35 p.m.                                                                                            
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
Senator Thomas Wagoner, Chair                                                                                                   
Senator Ben Stevens                                                                                                             
Senator Fred Dyson                                                                                                              
Senator Bert Stedman                                                                                                            
Senator Kim Elton                                                                                                               
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
Senator Ralph Seekins, Vice Chair                                                                                               
Senator Albert Kookesh                                                                                                          
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
SENATE BILL NO. 166                                                                                                             
"An  Act  relating  to  an   annual  wildlife  conservation  tag;                                                               
relating  to  bond requirements  for  vendors  of fish  and  game                                                               
licenses,  permits,  and tags;  and  providing  for an  effective                                                               
     SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD                                                                                                    
SENATE BILL NO. 213                                                                                                             
"An  Act making  an appropriation  to the  Department of  Natural                                                               
Resources  for   airborne  geological  and   geophysical  mineral                                                               
inventory; and providing for an effective date."                                                                                
     MOVED SB 213 OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                              
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 37(FIN) am                                                                                                
"An  Act  relating to  voluntary  land  trades and  purchases  to                                                               
enhance public access to fishing streams."                                                                                      
     HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                             
SENATE BILL NO. 203                                                                                                             
"An  Act  relating  to  adoption  and use  of  a  unified  permit                                                               
application form by the natural  resource agencies; and providing                                                               
for online permit applications."                                                                                                
     HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                             
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
BILL: SB 213                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: APPROPRIATION FOR MINERAL INVENTORY                                                                                
SPONSOR(s): SENATOR(s) THERRIAULT                                                                                               
01/09/06       (S)       PREFILE RELEASED 12/30/05                                                                              
01/09/06       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
01/09/06       (S)       RES, FIN                                                                                               
02/13/06       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
BILL: HB  37                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: PUBLIC ACCESS TO FISHING STREAMS                                                                                   
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) GARA                                                                                              
01/10/05       (H)       PREFILE RELEASED 12/30/04                                                                              
01/10/05       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
01/10/05       (H)       FSH, RES                                                                                               
03/21/05       (H)       FSH AT 8:30 AM CAPITOL 124                                                                             
03/21/05       (H)       -- Meeting Canceled --                                                                                 
03/23/05       (H)       FSH AT 8:30 AM CAPITOL 124                                                                             
03/23/05       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/23/05       (H)       MINUTE(FSH)                                                                                            
04/15/05       (H)       FSH AT 8:30 AM CAPITOL 124                                                                             
04/15/05       (H)       Moved CSHB  37(FSH) Out of Committee                                                                   
04/15/05       (H)       MINUTE(FSH)                                                                                            
04/18/05       (H)       FSH RPT CS(FSH) NT 2DP 1DNP 2NR                                                                        
04/18/05       (H)       DP: ELKINS, THOMAS;                                                                                    
04/18/05       (H)       DNP: SALMON;                                                                                           
04/18/05       (H)       NR: KAPSNER, LEDOUX                                                                                    
04/18/05       (H)       FIN REFERRAL ADDED AFTER RES                                                                           
04/22/05       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                             
04/22/05       (H)       Moved CSHB  37(RES) Out of Committee                                                                   
04/22/05       (H)       MINUTE(RES)                                                                                            
04/25/05       (H)       RES RPT CS(RES) NT 2DP 3NR                                                                             
04/25/05       (H)       DP: ELKINS, CRAWFORD;                                                                                  
04/25/05       (H)       NR: OLSON, SAMUELS, LEDOUX                                                                             
05/07/05       (H)       FIN AT 2:00 PM HOUSE FINANCE 519                                                                       
05/07/05       (H)       Moved CSHB  37(FIN) Out of Committee                                                                   
05/07/05       (H)       MINUTE(FIN)                                                                                            
05/08/05       (H)       FIN RPT CS(FIN) NT 3DP 6NR 1AM                                                                         
05/08/05       (H)       DP: CROFT, FOSTER, MOSES;                                                                              
05/08/05       (H)       NR: HAWKER, HOLM, STOLTZE, WEYHRAUCH,                                                                  
                         JOULE, MEYER;                                                                                          
05/08/05       (H)       AM: KELLY                                                                                              
05/09/05       (H)       TRANSMITTED TO (S)                                                                                     
05/09/05       (H)       VERSION: CSHB 37(FIN) AM                                                                               
05/10/05       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
05/10/05       (S)       RES, FIN                                                                                               
02/06/06       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
02/06/06       (S)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
02/06/06       (S)       MINUTE(RES)                                                                                            
02/13/06       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
BILL: SB 203                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: UNIFIED PERMIT APPLICATION                                                                                         
SPONSOR(s): SENATOR(s) GUESS                                                                                                    
01/09/06       (S)       PREFILE RELEASED 12/30/05                                                                              
01/09/06       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
01/09/06       (S)       RES, FIN                                                                                               
02/13/06       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
SENATOR GENE THERRIAULT                                                                                                         
Alaska State Capitol                                                                                                            
Juneau, AK  99801-1182                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of SB 213.                                                                                        
ROBERT SWENSON, Acting Director                                                                                                 
Division of Geological and Geophysical Surveys                                                                                  
Department of Natural Resources                                                                                                 
400 Willoughby Ave.                                                                                                             
Juneau, AK  99801-1724                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 213.                                                                                         
STEVE CULLIGAN, President                                                                                                       
Ditera Satellite Mapping Company                                                                                                
Anchorage AK                                                                                                                    
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 213.                                                                                         
REPRESENTATIVE LES GARA                                                                                                         
Alaska State Capitol                                                                                                            
Juneau, AK  99801-1182                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of HB 37.                                                                                         
SARAH GILBERTSON, Special Assistant                                                                                             
Department of Fish & Game                                                                                                       
PO Box 25526                                                                                                                    
Juneau, AK  99802-5226                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on HB 37.                                                                                       
SENATOR GRETCHEN GUESS                                                                                                          
Alaska State Capitol                                                                                                            
Juneau, AK  99801-1182                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of SB 203.                                                                                        
DICK MYLIUS, Director                                                                                                           
Division of Mining, Land and Water                                                                                              
Department of Natural Resources                                                                                                 
400 Willoughby Ave.                                                                                                             
Juneau, AK  99801-1724                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT: Available for question on SB 203.                                                                         
RANDY BATES, Acting Director                                                                                                    
Office of Project Management and Permitting                                                                                     
Department of Natural Resources                                                                                                 
400 Willoughby Ave.                                                                                                             
Juneau, AK  99801-1724                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SB 203.                                                                                           
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
CHAIR  THOMAS  WAGONER  called   the  Senate  Resources  Standing                                                             
Committee meeting to  order at 3:35:56 PM.  Present were Senators                                                             
Stedman, Elton,  Dyson and  Chair Wagoner  who announced  that SB                                                               
166 would be postponed.                                                                                                         
           SB 213-APPROPRIATION FOR MINERAL INVENTORY                                                                       
CHAIR WAGONER announced SB 213 to be up for consideration.                                                                      
SENATOR GENE THERRIAULT,  sponsor of SB 213,  testified that more                                                               
investments in  the mineral industry  like the Pogo Mine  that is                                                               
pouring its  very first  gold brick,  is what  this appropriation                                                               
seeks to  achieve for the  State of Alaska. The  mineral industry                                                               
provides healthy  tax receipts and private  sector employment. He                                                               
said  that SB  213 proposes  an appropriation  of $5  million for                                                               
geophysical surveys  that would be  doled out over  several years                                                               
in  line   with  a  recommendation   from  the   Alaska  Minerals                                                               
Commission, which asked  for a level greater than  $1 million per                                                               
3:39:44 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  THERRIAULT related  that  inconsistent funding  provided                                                               
since  1993 caused  problems  in  planning strategic  geophysical                                                               
survey  programs  and  the  state  was  not,  therefore,  getting                                                               
efficient use of its dollars.                                                                                                   
3:43:00 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  BERT  STEDMAN  said  he liked  the  concept  of  looking                                                               
forward to  map a  consistent future  for the  state's resources,                                                               
because   Alaska  is   a  resource-based   state.  He   asked  if                                                               
technological  advances  created  a  need to  update  old  survey                                                               
SENATOR THERRIAULT replied that the  work that has been done over                                                               
the past  couple of years  is pretty  close to cutting  edge, but                                                               
that old information was sketchy.                                                                                               
3:46:20 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  KIM ELTON  asked if  parallel surveys  are happening  on                                                               
federal and BLM land.                                                                                                           
SENATOR THERRIAULT  replied the federal government  is working on                                                               
surveying  its lands,  too, and  has provided  some money  to the                                                               
state for this project.                                                                                                         
SENATOR  ELTON  asked if  the  state  is surveying  some  federal                                                               
lands, too.                                                                                                                     
SENATOR THERRIAULT replied yes.                                                                                                 
3:47:52 PM                                                                                                                    
ROBERT  SWENSON,  Acting  Director, Division  of  Geological  and                                                               
Geophysical  Surveys,  Department  of  Natural  Resources  (DNR),                                                               
explained  the state's  mineral  resource program  using a  power                                                               
point  program.   Its  mission  is  to   conduct  geological  and                                                               
geophysical surveys  to determine  the potential of  Alaskan land                                                               
for  production   of  metals,  minerals,  fuels   and  geothermal                                                               
resources;  the   locations  and  supplies  of   groundwater  and                                                               
construction  materials; and  the potential  geologic hazards  to                                                               
buildings,   roads,   bridges   and   other   installations   and                                                               
structures.   The   department  identifies   Alaska's   potential                                                               
resources for the state's citizens.                                                                                             
3:51:23 PM                                                                                                                    
He  explained  digital  elevation  modeling  and  how  it  showed                                                               
tremendous diversity in all the  samples by referencing the power                                                               
point presentation.                                                                                                             
3:52:04 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR BEN STEVENS arrived.                                                                                                    
3:53:21 PM                                                                                                                    
MR. SWENSON  explained that the state  has funded high-resolution                                                               
geophysics mapping of  6.1 million state acres and  the Bureau of                                                               
Land Management  (BLM) had  fund mapping  of 3.7  million federal                                                               
acres.  Currently,  40  million  acres  are  identified  as  high                                                               
potential.  High-resolution geophysics  mapping costs  about $575                                                               
per square  mile or about  $.90 per  acre and over  three million                                                               
acres of  1:63,360-detailed geologic  mapping has  been completed                                                               
and published using it. The entire  state has a lot of geophysics                                                               
data  already, but  it's very  regional. His  slides on  Interior                                                               
data  on  current  operating  mines   and  showed  that  lots  of                                                               
exploration is going on.                                                                                                        
4:02:55 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR ELTON asked  how much the DGGS sells its  data for and if                                                               
it has a cost recovery program.                                                                                                 
MR. SWENSON  replied that  the data  is very  cheap and  he makes                                                               
sure it is available to everyone  in the public. Their website is                                                               
updated so  that the  data can  be downloaded.  He didn't  have a                                                               
specific cost recovery program.                                                                                                 
4:04:42 PM                                                                                                                    
STEVE  CULLIGAN,  President,  Ditera Satellite  Mapping  Company,                                                               
stated that  the DGGS had  done a good  job of using  its funding                                                               
and  has provided  very useful  data  that has  turned into  some                                                               
successful developments. He  said that the state's  mapping is in                                                               
pretty  poor shape  in  general and  that he  is  using the  same                                                               
inaccurate maps  that he used  35 years  ago. The state  needs to                                                               
know  what resources  it has  and geological  mapping has  a very                                                               
high return on investment. He supported SB 213.                                                                                 
4:08:12 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR THERRIAULT stated  that it is unusual to  have a separate                                                               
appropriation bill with  a line item to make its  way through the                                                               
process,  but  he  hoped  the  committee  felt  comfortable  with                                                               
passing the  bill. He said  the state rides the  commodity roller                                                               
coaster  up and  down, so  it should  strike while  the commodity                                                               
prices  are  high  and  establish  an  outline  of  its  resource                                                               
inventory so private industry can act.                                                                                          
4:10:09 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR ELTON asked if anything  could change the funding from $1                                                               
million every five years to, say, $2.5 million in two years.                                                                    
SENATOR  THERRIAULT replied  that the  department would  have the                                                               
latitude to do that, but it  is not interested in sharp swings up                                                               
and down and he doubted it would.                                                                                               
4:12:16 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  STEDMAN  moved  to  pass  SB  213  from  committee  with                                                               
individual recommendations.  There were no objections  and it was                                                               
so ordered.                                                                                                                     
       CSHB  37(FIN)am -PUBLIC ACCESS TO FISHING STREAMS                                                                    
4:14:23 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  THOMAS  WAGONER announced  CSHB  37(FIN)am  to be  up  for                                                               
consideration.  He said  that his  main concern  is exactly  what                                                               
type of access  it provides. Certain groups,  not necessarily the                                                               
State  of Alaska,  have spent  a  lot of  money repairing  stream                                                               
banks damaged by individual fishermen  wanting access. He knew of                                                               
two  or three  places  on the  Kenai River  that  were closed  to                                                               
access because they are very important to smolt habitat.                                                                        
REPRESENTATIVE  LES  GARA,  sponsor  of   HB  37,  said  that  it                                                               
addresses two separate issues. He  explained that both the Alaska                                                               
Department of  Fish and  Game (ADF&G)  and Department  of Natural                                                               
Resources (DNR)  have the right  to deny public access  if damage                                                               
is being  caused and  nothing in  this bill  would change  that -                                                               
that could even be emphasized in  this bill. He did not intend to                                                               
say the  public always has  to have access regardless  of whether                                                               
they are causing damage to a riverbank.                                                                                         
SARAH GILBERTSON,  Special Assistant,  Alaska Department  of Fish                                                               
and Game (ADF&G),  said she couldn't find anything  in statute on                                                               
that issue,  but she  learned that  in maintaining  access, ADF&G                                                               
tries to do  so in a habitat-friendly manner and  the Kenai River                                                               
is under the Upper Cook Inlet management plan.                                                                                  
4:19:54 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR KIM ELTON  said he assumed, with the  permissions of this                                                               
bill, that the  ADF&G would be identifying areas to  seek to find                                                               
common ground on providing access.  He assumed that process would                                                               
include  a decision  prior  to making  any kind  of  an offer  on                                                               
access as to  whether or not habitat degradation  would occur. He                                                               
assumed  that  meant that  anyplace  the  department thought  had                                                               
habitat degradation  wouldn't be  prioritized as an  area needing                                                               
access and  would focus  on areas in  which degradation  was less                                                               
likely to occur.                                                                                                                
MS. GILBERTSON  replied that  that language could  be put  in the                                                               
bill if the sponsor supported it.                                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA  explained  that  since  the  state  is  the                                                               
landowner,   Department   of    Natural   Resources   would,   in                                                               
consultation with  the Department of  Fish and Game,  decide what                                                               
areas needed to be protected.  AS 38.05.035 gives ADF&G the power                                                               
to  regulate  access and  habitat  protection  and that  language                                                               
could be clarified in the bill.                                                                                                 
4:22:15 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR BERT STEDMAN said he  was not comfortable with this bill.                                                               
For example, language  on page 2, line 4, says  that private land                                                               
ownership prevents  public access to  a section or  waterway that                                                               
is   highly  desirable   for   fishing   or  other   recreational                                                               
attributes. "Recreational  attributes" is  broad language  and he                                                               
was  concerned about  potential abuses.  Also, he  wanted to  see                                                               
more property privatized rather than the other way around.                                                                      
4:23:39 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR WAGONER said  that the state can already  determine that an                                                               
area  does not  have enough  public access  and acquire  property                                                               
through the  right of eminent domain.  But he was having  a tough                                                               
time  with the  idea  of taking  land out  of  private hands  and                                                               
putting it into public hands and taking it off the tax rolls.                                                                   
4:24:31 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE GARA responded that  overall he understood the tax                                                               
issue and the need to get  more land into private hands, but that                                                               
doesn't mean the state shouldn't  protect public access. Language                                                               
on page 2,  line 16, asks the department to  focus on undeveloped                                                               
lands that  aren't doing  much for the  tax rolls  anyhow. Making                                                               
access available would benefit the state in other ways.                                                                         
4:25:55 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  FRED  DYSON  asked  if  an  easement  would  increase  a                                                               
property's value.                                                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE GARA explained that  the value of surrounding land                                                               
would  go  up  because  of   additional  access.  He  added  that                                                               
acquisition of land is completely voluntary.                                                                                    
CHAIR WAGONER  remarked that there is  a lot of litter  and noise                                                               
along public accesses.                                                                                                          
4:29:11 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE GARA  explained that he  is just asking  the state                                                               
to identify at least two  linear miles (from about 100,000 miles)                                                               
of riverbank, which he thought would  take 10 to 20 years to buy.                                                               
Three areas  have been  identified already  - Montana  Creek, the                                                               
Anchor  River and  the Salcha  River.  The bill  also focuses  on                                                               
undeveloped areas so land should be cheaper to purchase.                                                                        
CHAIR WAGONER asked if those streams have problems currently.                                                                   
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA  replied  yes, problems  are  developing  on                                                               
Montana Creek. He was not talking  about the Kenai River and said                                                               
he could  exempt it in this  bill, but rather small  streams that                                                               
can't be  floated down where  people have  to stop on  the gravel                                                               
4:31:41 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  STEDMAN was  concerned that  "initial list"  on page  3,                                                               
line 26,  carried the  potential of abuse  since that  applied to                                                               
any stream in the state with fish in it.                                                                                        
REPRESENTATIVE GARA  responded that  the bill's  intent is  to do                                                               
just  the opposite.  He reiterated  that the  state can  exercise                                                               
eminent  domain  anywhere  now,  but   this  bill  says  to  only                                                               
prioritize  two miles  for  access and  to  focus on  undeveloped                                                               
lands, basically staying away from  developed properties that are                                                               
way to  expensive to spend  state money  on. Language on  page 2,                                                               
line 18, says  the state should focus on  the "greatest potential                                                               
for public recreational and subsistence use."                                                                                   
SENATOR STEDMAN  said he  didn't see that  language in  the bill.                                                               
Clearly the  initial language includes  any stream that  has fish                                                               
in it.  Also, language  on page  3, line 13,  says the  plan must                                                               
include a  minimum access - not  less than a total  of two linear                                                               
miles. So it could be greater than two linear miles.                                                                            
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA responded  that  he didn't  think the  state                                                               
would  identify  more than  two  miles  since it's  expensive  to                                                               
survey  and  government  would   resist  spending  the  money  to                                                               
identify a 100-mile  list of lands when it doesn't  even have the                                                               
money to buy the first two miles.                                                                                               
SENATOR ELTON said he can see  both sides, but he envisioned this                                                               
process would be more community-based.                                                                                          
4:38:22 PM                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA replied  that the  bill provides  for public                                                               
comment. He added that the only  lands that are being bought back                                                               
now  are  the  ones  that resource  groups  have  identified  for                                                               
4:39:29 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR WAGONER said he would hold the bill for further study.                                                                    
4:39:45 PM                                                                                                                    
               SB 203-UNIFIED PERMIT APPLICATION                                                                            
CHAIR   THOMAS  WAGONER   announced   SB  203   to   be  up   for                                                               
SENATOR GRETCHEN  GUESS, sponsor  of SB 203,  said she  wanted to                                                               
create a one-stop  online permitting system whenever  two or more                                                               
agencies need  to permit  a project. SB  203 breaks  her proposal                                                               
down into  two phases, one for  each year. The first  phase would                                                               
be  for  designing the  permit  application  and the  second  for                                                               
development of the online system.  She explained that Legislative                                                               
Legal  did not  like  the language  on page  9  that excluded  De                                                               
Minimus projects that require only  a standard condition, but she                                                               
did not  intend to  include small permits,  but rather  to target                                                               
developments where  people have  to go  to multiple  agencies for                                                               
4:44:50 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR BERT STEDMAN moved to adopt Amendment 1.                                                                                
                      A M E N D M E N T 1                                                                                   
OFFERED IN THE SENATE                          BY SENATOR GUESS                                                                 
     TO:  SB 203                                                                                                                
Page 1, line 4, through page 2, line 22:                                                                                        
     Delete all material.                                                                                                       
Page 2, line 23:                                                                                                                
     Delete "Sec. 5"                                                                                                          
     Insert "Section 1"                                                                                                       
Renumber the following bill sections accordingly.                                                                               
Page 9, following line 6:                                                                                                       
     Insert a new paragraph to read:                                                                                            
               "(3)  a limited entry permit under AS 16.43;"                                                                    
Renumber the following paragraphs accordingly.                                                                                  
CHAIR  WAGONER  announced  that  there  were  no  objections  and                                                               
Amendment 1 was adopted.                                                                                                        
SENATOR  STEDMAN asked  how the  departments would  work together                                                               
under SB 203.                                                                                                                   
SENATOR GUESS replied that she  hoped that there wouldn't be turf                                                               
battles  and that  people  would look  for  common elements,  not                                                               
diversity.  It  might   not  be  easy  on   the  departments  nor                                                               
inexpensive, but  the State  of Alaska would  be viewed  as being                                                               
open  for business.  The focus  would be  on writing  the correct                                                               
permit for the  area and, "Not trying to get  someone through the                                                               
hurdles of paperwork."                                                                                                          
4:47:28 PM                                                                                                                    
DICK  MYLIUS,  Director,  Division  of Mining,  Land  and  Water,                                                               
Department of Natural  Resources (DNR), said he  was available to                                                               
answer questions.                                                                                                               
RANDY BATES,  Acting Director, Office  of Project  Management and                                                               
Permitting,  Department of  Natural  Resources  (DNR), said  that                                                               
ADF&G, DNR and DEC supported  the concept of permit streamlining,                                                               
but did  not support SB 203  for three reasons. The  first reason                                                               
was  that  the unified  permit  application  concept as  proposed                                                               
fails  for  practical  reasons;  secondly,  the  departments  are                                                               
already streamlining their application  process; and thirdly, the                                                               
financial support is not available to implement the bill.                                                                       
4:49:43 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR ELTON said it makes sense for people to apply on line.                                                                  
MR. BATES replied  that it makes sense and DEC  is moving towards                                                               
online  permit  applications  and  DNR is  developing  an  online                                                               
coastal project  questionnaire for  an online permit  specific to                                                               
two of its  agencies. The interactive application  is a four-year                                                               
project that will cost a little more than $4 million.                                                                           
SENATOR ELTON pointed out that  he didn't disagree with this part                                                               
of  the  bill,  but  language   on  page  6  talks  about  permit                                                               
application  information on  the Internet  being done  within one                                                               
year rather  than four. He  asked if  he disagreed with  just the                                                               
MR. BATES  responded that a  one-year deadline is a  worthy goal,                                                               
but it  is difficult  to fill  out 30 or  40 applications  in the                                                               
confines of one year.                                                                                                           
SENATOR ELTON replied that he thought  that was why this bill was                                                               
needed  - if  all those  applications were  going to  be done  by                                                               
4:53:58 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR WAGONER  said that the  Alaska Mining Association  was real                                                               
hesitant about this  bill because the process  is already working                                                               
for them. They are getting their  permits in a timely fashion and                                                               
would rather rely on proven technology, not new technology.                                                                     
4:55:12 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR GUESS  responded that  just because  one industry  or one                                                               
group of  people in Alaska  is familiar with the  process doesn't                                                               
mean that  it is the best  process, especially when the  state is                                                               
trying to encourage  new entrants into the market.  She wanted to                                                               
make clear for the record that  SB 203 is not changing the permit                                                               
process,  but  it  is  changing   the  application  process.  She                                                               
emphasized  that permits  would not  be written  differently. She                                                               
has asked DNR for any  suggested changes, but she hadn't received                                                               
any at  this time, but  she had received suggestions  from ADF&G.                                                               
She  thought that  creating one  unified online  application made                                                               
more  sense  than  creating three  different  online  application                                                               
systems.  The current  databases refer  to the  same elements  as                                                               
different things. She remarked:                                                                                                 
     I don't  think we  have an  efficient system  right now                                                                    
     and I think it would  behoove the state to move towards                                                                    
     it....  Although it  might fail  for practical  reasons                                                                    
     now, I  don't think it  fails for practical  reasons in                                                                    
     our future.                                                                                                                
CHAIR WAGONER stated  that he would hold the bill  and address it                                                               
again later and adjourned the meeting at 4:58:49 PM.                                                                          

Document Name Date/Time Subjects