Legislature(2001 - 2002)

04/11/2001 04:07 PM RES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                     ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                   
                    SENATE RESOURCES COMMITTEE                                                                                
                          April 11, 2001                                                                                        
                             4:07 p.m.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator John Torgerson, Chair                                                                                                   
Senator Drue Pearce, Vice Chair                                                                                                 
Senator Pete Kelly                                                                                                              
Senator Kim Elton                                                                                                               
Senator Georgianna Lincoln                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Senator Rick Halford                                                                                                            
Senator Robin Taylor                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                              
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 24                                                                                                              
"An Act  giving  notice of  and approving  the entry  into, and  the                                                            
issuance  of certificates  of participation  for,  a lease-purchase                                                             
agreement  for a seafood  and food safety  laboratory facility;  and                                                            
providing for an effective date."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     MOVED SB 24 OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 139                                                                                                             
"An Act  relating to fees  for certain uses  of state water  and the                                                            
accounting   and   appropriation   of  those   fees;   relating   to                                                            
authorizations  for the temporary  use of state water; making  other                                                            
amendments  to  the Alaska  Water  Use  Act;  and providing  for  an                                                            
effective date."                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     MOVED CSSB 139(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SB  24 -  See State  Affairs  minutes dated  2/13/01  and  Resources                                                            
minutes dated 3/21/01.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SB 139 - See Resources minutes dated 4/4/01.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                              
Mr. Bob Loeffler, Director                                                                                                      
Division of Mining, Land and Water                                                                                              
Department of Natural Resources                                                                                                 
550 W 7th Ave., Ste 1070                                                                                                        
Anchorage AK 99501                                                                                                              
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 139.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Harvey Bascomb                                                                                                              
Wasilla AK                                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 139.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr. John Wenger                                                                                                                 
HC 60 Box 280                                                                                                                   
Copper Center AK 99573                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT:                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Bill Ward                                                                                                                   
Ward Farms                                                                                                                      
P.O. Box 1087                                                                                                                   
Delta Junction AK 99737                                                                                                         
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 139.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Rex Wrigley                                                                                                                 
HC 62 Box 5790                                                                                                                  
Delta Junction AK 99737                                                                                                         
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 139.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Pat Schlichting                                                                                                             
HC 60 Box 3050                                                                                                                  
Delta Junction AK 99737                                                                                                         
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 139.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Deb Moore                                                                                                                   
Northern Alaska Environmental Center                                                                                            
218 Driveway St.                                                                                                                
Fairbanks, AK 99701                                                                                                             
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SB 139.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Tom Thompson                                                                                                                
HC 01 Box 2011                                                                                                                  
Glennallen AK 99588                                                                                                             
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SB 139.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Bob Stiles, President                                                                                                       
DRven Corporation                                                                                                               
711 H St. #600                                                                                                                  
Anchorage AK 99501                                                                                                              
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 139.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Jan Konigsberg                                                                                                              
Trout Unlimited                                                                                                                 
7511 Labrador Circle, Ste.100                                                                                                   
Anchorage AK 99502                                                                                                              
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SB 139.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Tadd Owens, Executive Director                                                                                              
Resource Development Corporation                                                                                                
121 W. Fireweed Lane, Ste 250                                                                                                   
Anchorage AK 99503                                                                                                              
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 139.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Jim Munster                                                                                                                 
Anchorage AK                                                                                                                    
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 139.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 01-28, SIDE A                                                                                                            
Number 001                                                                                                                      
SB24                                                                                                                            
          SB 24-LEGIS APPROVAL OF SEAFOOD/FOOD SAFETY LAB                                                                     
                                                                                                                              
CHAIRMAN  JOHN  TORGERSON  called  the  Senate  Resources  Committee                                                          
meeting  to order  at 4:07 p.m.  and announced  SB 24  to be up  for                                                            
consideration.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PEARCE  moved to pass SB 24  from committee with  individual                                                            
recommendations. There were no objections and it was so ordered.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
                      SB 139-STATE WATER USE                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TORGERSON  announced SB 139 to be up for  consideration. He                                                            
said a proposed  committee substitute (CS) was drafted  to address a                                                            
number of the problems discussed in the last meeting.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PEARCE  moved to adopt the  CS to SB 139, labeled  Luckhaupt                                                            
4\11\01, Version C. There  were no objections and it was so ordered.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOB  LOEFFLER,  Director, Division  of Mining,  Land and  Water,                                                            
Department  of Natural  Resources  (DNR), explained  the  philosophy                                                            
behind the CS:                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     When last  we were here, we explored the problem  that the                                                                 
     water program  is broken and that part of the  solution is                                                                 
     doing  things  faster  with less  money  but part  of  the                                                                 
     solution  is a long-term  income source.  DNR now has  the                                                                 
     authority to raise fees,  but we heard in the last meeting                                                                 
     on teleconference  that people  were very concerned  about                                                                 
     DNR's   unlimited  ability  to   raise  fees.  They   were                                                                 
     concerned  that DNR would increase  fees just to increase                                                                  
     bureaucracy and that we  would charge for a property right                                                                 
     that  people have  had for  a long time.  The agriculture                                                                  
     people  in general  would be  paying for  water that  they                                                                 
     occasionally use in a dry  year and would be lumped in for                                                                 
     payment  like the North Slope.  Those are the problems  we                                                                 
     heard and I think this bill tries to address it.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     In  some   ways  this  is  an   anti-fee  bill.  It   puts                                                                 
     significant  limitations on DNR's ability to charge  fees.                                                                 
     It would eliminate  DNR's ability to charge the  water use                                                                 
     fee  that we proposed  last time.  Instead, the long-term                                                                  
     income  source   would  allow  DNR  to  charge  only   the                                                                 
     reasonable  direct costs of the  application, itself.  So,                                                                 
     if you imagine  you are someone with a one million  gallon                                                                 
     water right, we would not  institute a new charge on that.                                                                 
     This  bill would  not do that.  If you apply  for a  water                                                                 
     right, this bill would use  the methodology pioneered last                                                                 
     year  by the legislature  in what is  commonly called  the                                                                 
     DEC fees  bill or HB 319 to charge  the reasonable direct                                                                  
     costs.  Those costs  exclude -  that is DNR  would not  be                                                                 
     allowed to include - the  cost of salaries, administrative                                                                 
     support,  that  is people  like me  - we wouldn't  on  our                                                                 
     budgeted  overhead  write  rent  and  utilities  - public                                                                  
     notice  costs,  when  those  costs  are  not  required  by                                                                 
     statute, costs  related to an appeal to a permit,  that is                                                                 
     other  than the applicant  and expenses  not necessary  to                                                                 
     comply  with   the  law  or  travel  expenses  for   small                                                                 
     businesses such as agriculture.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     So what we would do under  this bill is we would divide up                                                                 
     classes  of applications  and charge  what the accounting                                                                  
     allows  us to -  the reasonable  and direct  costs. So  if                                                                 
     it's an easy application,  like Delta or Kenny Lake, where                                                                 
     there  are  not  a lot  of  folks,  the applications   are                                                                 
     relatively straightforward.  We might establish those as a                                                                 
     class and  they wouldn't be lumped in with oil  and gas on                                                                 
     the North  Slope or hydro where we tend to spend  a lot of                                                                 
     our  time. So, I believe  in summary  that this is a  bill                                                                 
     that provides  certain limitations  on the ability of  DNR                                                                 
     to  charge.  It  allows  us  to  adopt  regulations   that                                                                 
     establish  classes  so that we  can charge  the costs  not                                                                 
     lumping agriculture in with oil and gas.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     I will  say the application  costs will  go up, mostly  on                                                                 
     oil and gas  and hydro and somewhat less on the  remaining                                                                 
     much easier water right applications.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. LOEFFLER  followed up  with a section-by-section  review  of the                                                            
bill. He said  section 1 is the policy  with respect to water  fees.                                                            
Paragraph  4 was changed  to say  they would  charge the  reasonable                                                            
direct cost of water management.  Subsection (b) indicates that it's                                                            
a policy of  the state to assess a  reasonable fee for the  services                                                            
it provides facilitating  the use of water and sets  off those seven                                                            
limitations on what they can't charge.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Subsection  (c) indicates  that the  department may  not charge  for                                                            
something  that is not specifically  related  to a service  with the                                                            
exception of the current  $50 administrative service fee. Subsection                                                            
(d)  says that  DNR  would  minimize  the cost  on  individuals  and                                                            
businesses  that withdraw less than  a significant amount  of water.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
He  said  this means  that  they  need  a  streamlined  system  that                                                            
minimizes the  cost on adjudications  that either doesn't  take much                                                            
water and  that isn't  complex. He  said Section  2 is the same  and                                                            
Sections 3  - 5 are deleted and are  replaced with one amended  line                                                            
inserting  the water  use program  into  the existing  law with  the                                                            
existing fee methodology  pioneered last year for  HB 361. Section 4                                                            
is new and indicates DNR  may not charge fees except consistent with                                                            
HB 361 and  the current $50 administrative  service fee that  is set                                                            
in statute  so it can't be inflated.  Sections 5 - 10 are  the same.                                                            
Section  11 provides  an effective  date for the  fee provisions  of                                                            
July 1, 2002. He corrected  himself saying that all of section 6 was                                                            
deleted  and that modified  the export  statute  to allow people  to                                                            
export less than a significant amount of water.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 650                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR LINCOLN  asked what "reasonable  direct cost" and  "minimize                                                            
the direct cost" mean.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. LOEFFLER responded:                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     'Reasonable  direct  costs' are  defined in  AS 37.10  and                                                                 
     they really  are the salaries  and benefits of the people                                                                  
     working  on that class  of applications.  They would  keep                                                                 
     accounts  and  every  four years  they  would  change  the                                                                 
     regulations  to  make  sure  we  were  only  charging  the                                                                 
     salaries  and benefits  of those actually  working on  the                                                                 
     applications. With respect  to 'minimize reasonable direct                                                                 
     costs,' I  believe that's in the findings of the  bill and                                                                 
     so I believe it is philosophical.  It is a direction to me                                                                 
     to make sure that we run an efficient program.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TORGERSON  said he thought  this was somewhat experimental                                                             
as they  establish some of  the DEC fees that  RDC want them  to do.                                                            
Anything that's  not in the inclusions  could be considered  as part                                                            
of the fee.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. HARVEY BASCOMB, a Wasilla  resident, said that some problems had                                                            
been taken care  of in SB 139, but he was calling  from his farm and                                                            
didn't have  time to read  the whole thing.  He said that there  had                                                            
been a three-year  drought  and he has 300  head of cows that  don't                                                            
have  feed  because of  it.  He has  a  loan  application  in for  a                                                            
$100,000  irrigation system,  but there is  no way he would  do that                                                            
without a guaranteed water right permit and a reasonable fee.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  TORGERSON explained  that he would  be billed at  the high                                                            
peak usage and the fee  is $50 per year once he gets his permit. The                                                            
charge for  the permit would be a  "reasonable fee." The  department                                                            
was going to  categorize areas. Agriculture  in certain areas  would                                                            
be one class and a fee would be set for that class.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. BASCOMB  complimented Mr. Loeffler  on knowing his job  well and                                                            
added that,  "After 18 years, I've  experienced that we can't  water                                                            
animal  herds without  irrigation any  more and  if we can't  afford                                                            
irrigation, we just have to lock our doors."                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TORGERSON  assured him that  the committee understood  that                                                            
and is working on the committee substitute to that end.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. BASCOMB thanked him for his work.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 1100                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. JOHN WENGER  said he wanted to see a lot more  public input from                                                            
around the state's water districts.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. BILL  WARD, Delta Junction,  said he had  faxed his comments  to                                                            
Senator Torgerson and said  authorizing a number of gallons per well                                                            
doesn't work. He had some  questions about the committee substitute.                                                            
One of  them was  with the  $50 annual  administration  fee, but  he                                                            
didn't  have a  problem with  reasonable  fees. He  appreciated  the                                                            
committee's continuing work on this bill.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. REX WRIGLEY,  a Delta Junction resident, said  he didn't like to                                                            
see  more  of a  bureaucracy  formed  when  things  should  be  made                                                            
simpler.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. PAT SCHLICHTING, a  Delta Junction farmer, said he is getting up                                                            
to speed on the  bill and supports most of it, but  he didn't see an                                                            
exemption for personal use.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 1371                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS.  DEB MOORE,  Northern  Alaska  Environmental  Center,  said  she                                                            
understands  this bill would allow  DNR to give temporary  water use                                                            
permits without  public notice  or comment  and that is what  she is                                                            
most concerned  about. She understands that the Alaska  Constitution                                                            
says  agencies must  give out  public notice  prior  to giving  away                                                            
Alaska's resources.  It was important enough for the  constitutional                                                            
framers to mention water resources by name.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. TOM  THOMPSON said  he put in  a well for  $30,000, because  the                                                            
public well at Glennallen  had been poisoned by a fuel leak that was                                                            
never  repaired. Now  he's being  told he  is going  to have to  pay                                                            
taxes for drinking his  water and said, "I do own the water right to                                                            
my property." He thought it also might be unconstitutional.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOB STILES, President,  DRven Corporation, said he has worked on                                                            
restructuring  this  bill  with  Mr. Loeffler.  He  said  this  bill                                                            
imposes the same  sort of structure as DEC has imposed  on its water                                                            
program  and will  use to  implement the  solid  waste program  this                                                            
year. He stated,  "This is a very  workable fee structure."  He said                                                            
that  DEC  is happy  with  the  result  of its  first  exercise  and                                                            
applying it to the water program.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. JAN KRONIGSBERG,  Trout Unlimited, said he understands  that the                                                            
amendment  DNR is offering  only fixes  a couple  of problems.  It's                                                            
supposed  to  provide  sufficient  funding  to take  care  of  their                                                            
backlog of  water rights applications  and it's supposed  to confirm                                                            
DNR's authorization for  temporary use of the water and the validity                                                            
of those that  have already been issued and called  into question by                                                            
the  Superior  Court.  He  wonders  if it  may  not  create  further                                                            
problems  for the water users  of fish and  wildlife that depend  on                                                            
adequate in-stream flow.  He thought the committee should be able to                                                            
answer the following questions before sending the bill out:                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
   · Will the fee structure actually clear up the backlog? It may                                                               
     be useful to audit DNR's program to determine exactly what the                                                             
     problems are.                                                                                                              
   · Does the water use statute conflict with the Alaska                                                                        
     Constitution and prior water rights?                                                                                       
   · Will this bill more effectively implement the Water Use Act?                                                               
                                                                                                                                
He actually recommended  that the bill be tabled until all concerned                                                            
parties have  a better understanding  of the  nature of the  problem                                                            
and can offer a range of solutions.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. TADD  OWENS, Executive  Director, Resource  Development  Council                                                            
(RDC), said  the RDC helped  work on the fee  structure and  is very                                                            
supportive of SB 139.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. JIM MUNSTER,  Anchorage Resident,  supported SB 139.  He said he                                                            
was a  hydrologist  at DNR for  11 years  and worked  on many  water                                                            
rights cases over the years.  DNR has a critical funding problem. He                                                            
remarked,  "I think we  need to look  at the  goals of getting  more                                                            
money into the program  to clear up the backlog and have people work                                                            
on water short areas."                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. MUNSTER  said that regulatory  changes were needed to  make more                                                            
efficient  use  of state  resources  in clearing  the  backlog.  His                                                            
concern was that even with  the current bill, it would take multiple                                                            
years before  the backlog  gets cleared. He  knows of projects  that                                                            
have  been impacted  by  not getting  their  day in  court. He  also                                                            
supported the  temporary water use  permit section. He is  not aware                                                            
of any problems  associated with water availability  and it has been                                                            
done for  many years  already. There  are many  safeguards built  in                                                            
with  other agencies  evaluating  temporary  uses  of  water and  he                                                            
supported that as well.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TORGERSON  asked what DNR  will do about the exemption  for                                                            
personal water use.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. LOEFFLER responded:                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Homeowners  do not need  to apply for  a water right.  Use                                                                 
     under  500 gallons  a  day currently  doesn't  require  an                                                                 
     application.  In  the regulations  we expect  to propose,                                                                  
     while people  would have to apply, we would exempt  people                                                                 
     from getting water rights.  It would be a very streamlined                                                                 
     program for  a much greater use of water. Once  you either                                                                 
     apply in the  streamlined program or once you  get a water                                                                 
     right,  there is no further tax  for residential use  less                                                                 
     than 1,500 gallons.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TORGERSON  asked if there  would be no fee at all  for less                                                            
than 1,500 gallons.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR.  LOEFFLER  said  effectively  that  would be  the  personal  use                                                            
exemption.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TORGERSON  asked if one would own the water  if the land is                                                            
patented.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR.  LOEFFLER responded  that  the Constitution  provides  that  all                                                            
water in Alaska  is held by Alaskans.  All water is under  the Water                                                            
Use Act on federal, state, private, and Native lands.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TORGERSON said, "Then, he doesn't own the water."                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. LOEFFLER  responded  that person  could have  a water right  and                                                            
that is a property right  to the water issued by the State of Alaska                                                            
or perhaps  the Territory. There was  a grandfather clause  when the                                                            
Water Use Act was passed.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  ELTON asked  Mr.  Loeffler  to address  the constitutional                                                             
issue that might apply with what he's trying to do.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR.  LOEFFLER  said,  "I  don't believe  there's  any  chance  of  a                                                            
constitutional problem." He explained:                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     The Constitution requires  public notice before we dispose                                                                 
     of an interest  in land including water that is  before we                                                                 
     give  away a property  right. For that  reason, we public                                                                  
     notice all water rights and will continue to do so.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     A temporary  water use permit  is just that. And we  don't                                                                 
     public notice  that. It is entirely revocable  and we make                                                                 
     it very clear in the application  that it is revocable and                                                                 
     conveys   no  property   right.   For  that   reason   the                                                                 
     constitution does not, in  fact, require public notice. So                                                                 
     I don't  believe there is a constitutional  issue; I  also                                                                 
     do not believe there is  a significant environmental issue                                                                 
     that would warrant public notice.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELTON  expressed concern that even with a  special injection                                                            
of money, DNR  might fall even further behind. He  stated, "This may                                                            
not address the backlog problem the way we want it to."                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. LOEFFLER  said  he appreciated  the question  as  it gave him  a                                                            
chance to inform  the committee of the performance  measures in this                                                            
bill and fiscal note. He  thought DNR could get the new median water                                                            
rights applications  out in  60 days, a median  temporary water  use                                                            
permit  out within  15 days  and clear  up the  backlog within  five                                                            
years. He commented,  "The fiscal note shows that  after five years,                                                            
our need for money, in  fact, drops, because the people who would be                                                            
working on the  backlog would no longer have anything  to do. So the                                                            
performance  measures I am promising  are performance measures  with                                                            
respect to current  applications and a five-year performance  record                                                            
with respect to the backlog."                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  TORGERSON asked if  he got some  help in the budget  cycle                                                            
this year.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. LOEFFLER answered that  he did and that it took the pressure off                                                            
for this year.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 2100                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR LINCOLN asked him  to expand on the backlog and what happens                                                            
to the people who are waiting  for a response on their applications.                                                            
She  asked, "Can  they  proceed  with their  business  activity  for                                                            
whatever  they have applied  for until they  get something  from the                                                            
department."                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. LOEFFLER said,  "They can't legally. We have a  backlog of about                                                            
700 applications  and 3,000 actions  total including amendments  and                                                            
amendment transfers.  We would certainly act on that  portion of the                                                            
backlog if  someone has stopped. Quite  frankly, I suspect  a lot of                                                            
people  who  have  applications  have drilled  their  well  and  are                                                            
withdrawing  water, but  people  who came  to us saying  they had  a                                                            
problem  we would  prioritize first.  I suspect  with the  resources                                                            
we're getting  in this year's operating budget and  in this bill, we                                                            
would be able to take care of that problem."                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR LINCOLN  said she bought property  in 1961 and was  asked if                                                            
she wanted  the  water rights  grandfathered  in. She  asked if  the                                                            
people who did that have  free use of that water and if it ties into                                                            
the state's fee or assessment system.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. LOEFFLER said  he wasn't sure about 1961. He answered,  "The way                                                            
it worked  is to be  grandfathered  in to a water  right, you  would                                                            
have to apply  in the '60s and you are part of the  state system and                                                            
we do  bill you  the $50  per year  annual fee.  Many single  family                                                            
dwellings don't have a water right and don't require it."                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELTON  moved to adopt amendment  1. He said, "I don't  think                                                            
there is a single recipe  they could apply that would meet the needs                                                            
of temporary water users  on the North Slope and the needs of people                                                            
who may want  to tap into a stream  falling off a cliff for  a short                                                            
term  construction  proposal."   He explained   that  the  amendment                                                            
inserts  "However,  the  commissioner  must request  comment  on  an                                                            
application  for temporary use of  water for the Department  of Fish                                                            
and Game and the Department  of Environmental Conservation," into in                                                            
Section 6(d).                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
He said  that was  a little more  restrictive  than language  in the                                                            
bill, but much less restrictive  than present statutory language and                                                            
gets to  the issue  of alerting  agencies, if  not the public,  that                                                            
this use is occurring.  The second part of the amendment articulates                                                            
two things that may need  to jump out from the other public interest                                                            
language and that  is "protect fish and wildlife habitat  and public                                                            
health," into Section 6 also.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. LOEFFLER said, "Certainly,  I believe that the review by DEC and                                                            
Fish and Game  provide another safeguard that temporary  use permits                                                            
would not, in  fact, affect fish habitat and the environment.  It is                                                            
something we  do now and it is helpful  to have that in statute.  In                                                            
addition, it is our responsibility to protect [those things]."                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TORGERSON asked  if the term "requesting comment" gives the                                                            
departments veto power over a permit.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. LOEFFLER answered, "No, it doesn't."                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  TORGERSON   asked  if  DNR   takes  their  comments   into                                                            
consideration before issuing the permit.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. LOEFFLER  answered,  "Yes, Mr.  Chairman. We  work very  closely                                                            
especially  with Fish and Game on  the North Slope and I'm  proud of                                                            
the working  relationship. I believe  that we have not had  a permit                                                            
on the North  Slope that they have  disagreed with in a long  time."                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TORGERSON  asked if there were any objections  to amendment                                                            
1. There were none and it was adopted.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  LINCOLN moved  to pass  CSSB 139(RES)  from committee  with                                                            
individual recommendations.  There were no objections  and it was so                                                            
ordered.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TORGERSON adjourned the meeting at 4:55 p.m.                                                                           

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