Legislature(1993 - 1994)
04/30/1994 11:40 AM RES
* first hearing in first committee of referral
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SENATE RESOURCES COMMITTEE April 30, 1994 11:40 A.M. MEMBERS PRESENT Senator Mike Miller, Chairman Senator Loren Leman, Vice Chairman Senator Steve Frank Senator Drue Pearce Senator Al Adams Senator Fred Zharoff MEMBERS ABSENT Senator Dave Donley COMMITTEE CALENDAR CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 443(RES) am(efd fld) "An Act relating to the confidentiality of certain records relating to fish and wildlife." SCHEDULED, BUT NOT HEARD THIS DATE. SENATE BILL NO. 375 "An Act relating to general grant land entitlements." CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 398(CRA) "An Act relating to conveyance of certain land to municipalities." CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 266(L&C) "An Act relating to guide-outfitter and master guide-outfitter licenses; extending the termination date of the Big Game Commercial Services Board; and providing for an effective date." CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 239(RES) am "An Act relating to raffles and auctions of certain permits to take big game; and providing for an effective date." HOUSE BILL NO. 232 "An Act relating to a bow hunting tag and bow hunting safety; and providing for an effective date." CS FOR HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 55(RES) Relating to the importance to the economy of Southeast Alaska of continued timber harvests on the Tongass National Forest. CS FOR HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 56(RES) Relating to an exemption for federal land in Alaska from the federal PACFISH management strategy. CS FOR HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 59(FSH) Relating to reduction of wanton waste in North Pacific Ocean and Bering Sea fisheries. HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 61 Relating to the Western Alaska Community Development Quota Program and the North Pacific Fishery Management Council Comprehensive Rationalization Program. HOUSE BILL NO. 462 "An Act repealing certain provisions of the laws, other than those in the Alaska Land Act, relating to recording requirements, labor and improvement requirements, and size requirements for mining claims and providing for the suspension or waiver of state annual mining labor requirements when the federal government has suspended or waived federal annual mining labor requirements administratively or by statute; and providing for an effective date." HOUSE BILL NO. 446 "An Act relating to community agreements for environmental conservation purposes; and providing for an effective date." PREVIOUS ACTION SB 375 - See Community & Regional Affairs minutes dated 4/19/94 & 4/21/94. HB 398 - See Community & Regional Affairs minutes dated 3/15/94. See Resources minutes dated 4/18/94. HB 266 - No previous action to record. HB 239 - No previous action to record. HB 232 - See Resources minutes dated 2/22/94, 2/23/94, and 3/9/94. HJR 55 - No previous action to record. HJR 56 - No previous action to record. HJR 59 - No previous action to record. HJR 61 - No previous action to record. HB 462 - See Resources minutes dated 4/13/94. HB 446 - See Community & Regional Affairs minutes dated 4/7/94. WITNESS REGISTER Martha Stewart, Legislative Aide c/o Senator Al Adams State Capitol Juneau, Ak. 99801-1182 POSITION STATEMENT: Commented in SB 375. Jerry Gallagher, Director Division of Mining Department of Natural Resources P.O. Box 107016 Anchorage, Ak. 99510-1724 POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 375, HB 398, Representative Harley Olberg State Capitol Juneau, Ak. 99801-1182 POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of HB 398. Representative Gail Phillips State Capitol Juneau, Ak. 99801-1182 POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of HB 266. Paul Johnson, Chairman Big Game Commercial Services Board Juneau, Ak. 99801 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 266. Representative Con Bunde State Capitol Juneau, Ak. 99801-1182 POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of HB 239. Dave Kelleyhouse, Director Division of Wildlife Conservation P.O. Box 25526 Juneau, Ak. 99802-5526 POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on HB 239. John George Alaska Outdoor Council 9515 Marine Way Juneau, Ak. 99801 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported CSHB 239. Representative Bill Williams State Capitol Juneau, Ak. 99801-1182 POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of HJR 55. Katya Kirsch Alaska Environmental Lobby P.O. Box 22151 Juneau, Ak. 99802 POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed HJR 55 and HJR 56. Chuck Achborger, Director Juneau Chamber of Commerce 124 West 5 Juneau, Ak. 99801 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HJR 55 and HJR 56. Troy Reinhart, Executive Director Alaska Forest Association Ketchikan, Ak. 99901 POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HJR 55 and HJR 56. Cheryl Sutton, Legislative Aide Representative Carl Moses State Capitol Juneau, Ak. 99801-1182 POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on HJR 59 and HJR 61. Representative Gene Therriault State Capitol Juneau, Ak. 99801-1182 POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of HB 462. Mead Treadwell, Deputy Commissioner Department of Environmental Conservation 410 Willoughby Ave., Suite 105 Juneau, Ak. 99801-1795 ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 94-40, SIDE A Number 001 CHAIRMAN MILLER called the Resources Committee meeting to order at 11:40 a.m. and announced that HB 443 (FISH & WILDLIFE CONFIDENTIAL L RECORDS) was transmitted to the Senate, but hadn't been transmitted to the committee, so they could not take it up. SENATOR MILLER said the first item they would take up today would be SB 375 (GENERAL GRANT LAND ENTITLEMENTS). MARTHA STEWART, Legislative Aide to Senator Al Adams, said this bill would allow municipalities to select up to 10% of the general grant land within their municipal boundaries. A CS incorporating changes suggested by the DNR was in their packets. She explained that certain members of the oil industry were concerned over the possibility of selecting "unitized land." The Oil and Gas Commission designates units which is a method of controlling the order of drilling activities. A proposed amendment would take those lands out of the possibility for selection for the municipal entitlements. SENATOR LEMAN moved to adopt the CSSB 375 (RES). There were no objections and it was so ordered. SENATOR PEARCE moved Senator Adam's amendment regarding "unitized land." There were no objections and it was so ordered. JERRY GALLAGHER, Department of Natural Resources, said there was a $0 fiscal note and that local governments can select vacant and unappropriated land. The purpose of that limited selection is so that municipal governments can select lands for schools, municipal expansion and needs. State Park and State Forest designated lands could not be selected, he said. SENATOR FRANK noted that Haines entitlements would go up by 5 times and his district would triple. MR. GALLAGHER elaborated for Senator Pearce that the smaller areas with a higher population have a higher proportion of land, like Juneau. Number 254 SENATOR LEMAN moved to discharge CSSB 375 (RES) from committee with individual recommendations. There were no objections and it was so ordered. SENATOR MILLER announced HB 398 (LAND CONVEYED TO & FROM MUNICIPALITIES) to be up for consideration. REPRESENTATIVE HARLEY OLBERG, Sponsor, said HB 398 allows municipalities to acquire their adjoining tide lands from the state of Alaska subject to four conditions. He said an existing problem in the City of Skagway is addressed, also. He had a proposed amendment that would enable the State of Alaska to retain title to Anderson Bay by giving the Commissioner of DNR the right to decline a conveyance if the state's interests clearly outweigh the municipalities interests. SENATOR PEARCE asked if this could be used to stop aquaculture. REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG said it has to be a development project for the municipality to acquire their tide and submerged lands. MR. GALLAGHER noted that there wasn't a definition for development in statute, although language on page 4, line 8 discusses what the land can be used for. SENATOR ZHAROFF asked what was the affect of repealing subsection 11. REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG said that section was included at the request of Skagway where their high school and a large piece of their town is on filled tide lands. SENATOR MILLER said he was concerned with lines 13-15 on page 4 where it says, "the land is required for the accomplishment of a public or private development approved by the city." He thought someone's interpretation of development could mean a park, and he wasn't interested in creating parks. SENATOR PEARCE said she would like to hold the bill to tighten up the meaning of development. SENATOR MILLER moved to adopt another amendment by inserting language "unless the Commissioner finds that the public interest in retaining state ownership clearly outweighs the municipalities interest in obtaining land." There were no objections and it was so ordered. SENATOR MILLER said he intended to hold this bill until Monday and announced a recess for 2 minutes. SENATOR MILLER announced HB 266 (ELIGIBILITY FOR GUIDE-OUTFITTER LICENSE) to be up for consideration. SENATOR GAIL PHILLIPS, Sponsor, said this bill does affect the guide-outfitter/master guide-outfitter licenses. It seeks to extend the Big Game Commercial Services Board's statutory authority to June 30, 1997, broaden the statute in one section to enable compliance with a court decision in Cobb v. State, and reenact and define the master/guide license. SENATOR ZHAROFF asked how a person became a registered guide. PAUL JOHNSON, Chairman, Master Guide Commercial Service Board, said there are 2 different ways. One system goes through a class A guide which tries to assist those in rural areas. The other way is to become an assistant guide for 3 years. SENATOR ZHAROFF said one of the complaints he hears a lot is that the master guides don't live in the state. MR. JOHNSON said there are legal constraints, but they have pursued having a different fee for out of state guides. There aren't really that many. He said the Board was trying to work with local people to protect them if the federal government takes over, because of the subsistence issue. SENATOR MILLER said it his intent to work on the bill over the weekend and bring it back on Monday. SENATOR MILLER announced HB 239 (RAFFLE OR AUCTION OF BIG GAME PERMITS) to be up for consideration. REPRESENTATIVE CON BUNDE, Sponsor, said HB 239 is a revenue generating bill that will allow raffles and auctions of certain permits to take big game. He said he supported the CS. REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE, Director, Division of Wildlife Conservation, explained that the bison raffle has not generated enough money to keep the safeguard program going. They would receive 50% of the proceeds. Other organizations would receive 10% with 90% going to the Fish and Game fund. SENATOR ZHAROFF asked how they get around the dedicated fund issue. REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said this would be like the sale of the duck stamp prints. MR. KELLEYHOUSE said he didn't think there would be a problem with the money going into the Fish and Game fund. JOHN GEORGE, Alaska Outdoor Council, supported the proposed CS to HB 239. SENATOR PEARCE moved to adopt the CS to HB 239. There were no objections and it was so ordered. SENATOR PEARCE moved to pass CSHB 239 (RES) from committee with individual recommendations. There were no objections and it was so ordered. Number 577 SENATOR MILLER announced HB 232 (BOW HUNTING STAMP & BOW HUNTING SAFETY) to be up for consideration. He said they had adopted the Resources SCS. SENATOR LEMAN moved to discharge SCSHB 232(RES) from committee with individual recommendations. There were no objections and it was so ordered. SENATOR MILLER announced HJR 55 (TONGASS NATIONAL FOREST TIMBER HARVESTS) to be up for consideration. TAPE 94-40, SIDE B Number 580 REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS, Sponsor, said HJR 55 asks Congress to review the economic impact of Southeast Alaska on the Forest Products Industry, brought about by ANILCA and the Tongass Reform Act of 1990. There has been a timber shortage since 1990 resulting in the loss of more than 600 forest products industry jobs in southeast Alaska. The lack of an assured supply of timber available for harvest posses a great threat to the economic well being of the region, Representative Williams said. SENATOR ZHAROFF said he didn't have trouble with the timber industry portion of the bill. But he and other legislators have been receiving a number of messages from other resource users in the state who are concerned. Number 540 KATYA KIRSCH, Alaska Environmental Lobby, opposed HJR 55, because the Congressional report it requests is already required and petitions the Forest Service to manage the Tongass National Forest in a way that will force Southeast Alaska to face the same environmental and economic collapse seen in the Pacific Northwest. She said the legislature has all the user groups in their constituencies, not just timber. It's poor policy to accommodate a single interest, especially when it can negatively impact other people and industries in the state. SENATOR LEMAN said he understands her to be saying that if they are optimizing opportunity for the timber industry, they are of necessity not optimizing opportunity for other interests. That is not his conclusion. He thinks they can optimize an opportunity for timber and other industries within the confines of the existing management plans. MS. KIRSCH commented that current harvest levels have been below that stated in law. Problems like subsistence, viable populations, and the fact that there just isn't enough timber in certain units have been cropping up. The intent of the language in this resolution is to increase what has already been happening when that is already unsustainable - as far as all of the user groups being able to continue their uses. CHUCK ACHBORGER, Director, Juneau Chamber of Commerce, supported HJR 55. It is extremely important for Southeast Alaska to have a viable timber base for a viable economy. The Tongass Land Management Plan was put together with a consensus of all interests. Timber ended up with 10% of the Tongass to work with. Ever since then, they have been fighting to maintain that 10%. TROY REINHART, Executive Director, Alaska Forest Association, supported HJR 55. It does not ask for anything that isn't in current law. SENATOR LEMAN asked him if he found the Tongass Timber Reform Act of 1990 workable. MR. REINHART said it was workable and they will continue to make it workable. SENATOR ZHAROFF said looking at the citations and resolutions that have come in from the different municipalities and interest groups he represents, he thought their comfort level would be increased greatly if they adopt amendments asking that the other resources be protected in all of these deliberations. SENATOR ZHAROFF moved to adopt amendment #1. SENATOR MILLER objected for the purpose of discussion. SENATOR ZHAROFF explained it would replace the first "WHEREAS." The amendment defers to the goal of sustainable yield of the various resources. REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS said the various acts in place now, like the Forest Practices Act, are working. He, therefore, objected. SENATOR ZHAROFF suggested he work with the sponsor over the weekend and move the bill out Monday. SENATOR MILLER said that would be fine and he asked Representative Williams if he objected to amendment #2. REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS said that he objected to that one also. SENATOR MILLER announced HJR 56 (EXEMPT ALASKA FROM "PACFISH" REGS) S) to be up for consideration. REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS, Sponsor, said that salmon stocks are healthy. Alaska does not share the habitat degradation problems faced by the other northwest states. Salmon stocks in Alaska are protected by existing federal and state laws and regulations, including the Tongass Land Management Plan, the Tongass Timber Reform Act, the Alaska Coastal Zone Management Program, and the Alaska State Forest Practices Act. Implementation of PacFish in Alaska is inappropriate and unnecessary, he said. SENATOR ZHAROFF asked what "beribboned" meant. There was discussion that it meant the same thing as braided. KATYA KIRSCH, Alaska Environmental Lobby, said many of their members fish commercially for salmon. They strongly oppose this resolution banning the best science to date that will insure a future for the salmon resource. MS. KIRSCH said that Senator Stevens obtained a one year exemption from Pacfish for Alaska requiring the Forest Service to do a report on the applicability of the strategy to the state. HJR 56 asks Congress to make a permanent exemption before that report even comes out. She said the Pacfish strategy for healthy streams is simply to place the burden of proof on land users that their activity will not adversely affect salmon. Salmon provides jobs for Alaskans and they are also a part of our culture. CHUCK ACHBORGER, Juneau Chamber of Commerce, supported HJR 56. He said the reason most of the healthy streams are in Alaska is because the timber industry and the state have the Forest Practices Act which does protect our streams. SENATOR ZHAROFF commented that there are other user groups that have concerns as well. He mentioned the resolutions from city counsels that have expressed interest in having their uses considered equally. TROY REINHART, Alaska Forest Association, supported HJR 56. He said if you look at the Pacific Northwest for which Pacfish was put in place, there is no doubt that they have problems, but they are generally not habitat problems. The problems are dams and irrigation and development in the lower sections of the river and estuaries. Number 120 SENATOR ZHAROFF moved to delete "beribboned" for which there is no official definition. SENATOR FRANK objected. He thought it might clarify the description of the topography and, therefore, the logic for having different rules apply. SENATOR MILLER said that "beribboned" would be amendment #1 (a). SENATOR FRANK removed his objection and the amendment was adopted. SENATOR ZHAROFF moved amendment #2. He said we really need to be careful in getting involved in the problems that are unique to the problems of the Northwest. There were no objections and it was adopted. TAPE 94-41, SIDE A Number 001 SENATOR ZHAROFF said he thought this legislation would send up a red flag to permanently exclude all land in Alaska, meaning that we don't want anyone else interfering. SENATOR MILLER said there were no objections and amendment #2 was adopted. SENATOR ADAMS moved to pass HJR 56 from committee with individual recommendations. There were no objections and it was so ordered. Number 60 SENATOR MILLER announced HJR 55 to be back before the committee. SENATOR ZHAROFF moved amendment #1. There were no objections and it was so ordered. SENATOR ZHAROFF moved amendment # 2. There were no objections and it was so ordered. SENATOR ZHAROFF moved to pass CS to HJR 55 (RES) am from committee. There were no objections and it was so ordered. SENATOR MILLER announced HJR 59 (WANTON WASTE OF FISH N.PACIFIC/BERING SEA) to be up for consideration. CHERYL SUTTON, Legislative Aide to Representative Carl Moses, read a sponsor statement. SENATOR ADAMS moved to pass HJR 59 from committee with individual recommendations. There were no objections and it was so ordered. SENATOR MILLER announced HJR 61 (COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT FISHING QUOTAS) to be up for consideration. CHERYL SUTTON testified that HJR 61 first establishes some factual information relative to Western Alaska Community Development Quota Groups and then addresses the North Pacific Fisheries Management Council's comprehensive rationalization plan for ground fish and crab. Comprehensive rationalization means collectively all present and potential users of resources will be included in some plan that will be formalized by the federal government. SENATOR LEMAN moved to discharge HJR 61 from committee. There were no objections and it was so ordered. SENATOR MILLER announced HB 462 (MINING REQUIREMENTS: RECORDING/LABOR/SIZE) to be up for consideration. REPRESENTATIVE GENE THERRIAULT, Sponsor, explained the CS. SENATOR PEARCE moved to adopt the CS to HB 462. There were no objections and it was so ordered. SENATOR LEMAN moved to discharge CSHB 462 from committee with individual recommendations. There were no objections and it was so ordered. Number 225 SENATOR MILLER announced HB 446 (ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION AGREEMENTS) to be up for consideration. MEAD TREADWELL, Deputy Commissioner, Department of Environmental Conservation, said this bill was proposed by the Governor to put in the agency's charter that it is specifically able and has the authority to enter into agreements with communities to comprehensively address environmental problems. SENATOR LEMAN moved to adopt the CS to HB 446. SENATOR PEARCE objected for discussion purposes. ANNETTE KRIETZER, Staff to Senator Loren Leman, said the amendments that are proposed are in keeping with the direction of SB 215, SB 33, and HB 238. SENATOR PEARCE commented that saying every time the Department works with a community on its conservation needs they have to go through this extra hoop, is adding a bureaucracy to a process that is already cumbersome. MR. TREADWELL agreed and said he had never seen this amendment. The Commissioner asked to have the bill go through without amendments, if possible. The language is a change to the charter to put very high in the introductory language that the Department should work with communities. SENATOR MILLER said he viewed the language as an amendment, not a committee substitute. SENATOR ADAMS asked how the Alaskan communities were going to met the unfunded needs that are required by federal regulations. MR. TREADWELL said they face that problem every day. He said they try to work with communities, not in an adversarial role. They have recently told the federal government, on another source of unfunded mandates, that we are willing to lose the $2 million in federal funding you are willing to give us, because the first time we implement these regulations, it's going to cost our communities far more than $2 million. SENATOR FRANK asked about problems with the private sector. Why limit this to just communities. MR. TREADWELL explained that there is sometimes a problem in making an agreement between an agency and a private entity that is not specifically through a contract or through an open bidding process. SENATOR ADAMS asked if they would consider "private local corporations." MR. TREADWELL suggested adding to the original bill saying, "where appropriate portions of the community agreement related to emergency response will be entered into jointly with the State Emergency Response Commission." This would take that part of an agreement that would deal with local response issues and take it to the CERC which involves other agencies. SENATOR LEMAN moved to withdraw the motion to adopt the CS to HB 446. There were no objections and it was so ordered. SENATOR LEMAN moved to adopt Mr. Treadwell's conceptual amendment. There were no objections and it was adopted. SENATOR FRANK moved on line 7 after "corporation" to insert "other local corporations." There were no objections and it was so ordered. SENATOR ADAMS moved SCSHB 446(RES) from committee with individual recommendations. There were no objections and it was so ordered. SENATOR LEMAN moved to adopt the letter of intent. MR. TREADWELL commented that it would be a setback to adopt the letter of intent, because they have many agreements in place already. SENATOR LEMAN suggested deleting the words, "implementing HB 446 and before." MR. TREADWELL said implementing some of the contracts would begin in the next year, but it wasn't imminent. SENATOR LEMAN moved to withdraw his motion to adopt the letter of intent saying he would offer an amended version on the floor. Number 518 SENATOR MILLER adjourned the meeting at 2:23 p.m.