Legislature(2001 - 2002)
02/07/2002 01:35 PM Senate L&C
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ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
SENATE LABOR & COMMERCE COMMITTEE
February 7, 2002
1:35 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Ben Stevens, Chair
Senator Alan Austerman
Senator Loren Leman
Senator John Torgerson
Senator Bettye Davis
MEMBERS ABSENT
All Members Present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SENATE BILL NO. 244
"An Act extending the termination date of the Board of Examiners
in Optometry; and relating to optometrists."
MOVED CSSB 244 (L&C) OUT OF COMMITTEE
SENATE BILL NO. 257
"An Act extending the termination date of the Board of
Professional Counselors."
MOVED CSSB 257 (L&C) OUT OF COMMITTEE
HOUSE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 12
Relating to the preservation of employment opportunities for
United States longshoremen with respect to unloading and loading
of foreign vessels.
MOVED HCR 12 OUT OF COMMITTEE
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
SB 244 - See Labor and Commerce minutes dated 1/31/02.
SB 257 - No previous action to consider.
HCR 12 - No previous action to consider.
WITNESS REGISTER
Ms. Heather Brakes
Staff to Senator Therriault
State Capitol Bldg.
Juneau AK 99811
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 244 for sponsor.
Dr. Christianson, Chair
Board of Examiners and Opticians
Off net
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported CSSB 244 (L&C).
Ms. Deborah Grundmann
Staff to Senator Stevens
State Capitol Bldg.
Juneau AK 99811
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 257 for sponsor.
Ms. Catherine Reardon, Director
Division of Occupational Licensing
Department of Community and Economic Development
P.O. Box 110806
Juneau AK 99811
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 257.
Mr. Tim Benintendi
Staff to Representative Moses
State Capitol Bldg.
Juneau AK 99811
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on HCR 12 for the sponsor.
Mr. Pete Hendrickson
Former President
Long Shore Union
Dutch Harbor AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HCR 12.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 02-3, SIDE A
Number 001
SB 244-OPTOMETRISTS: SUNSET AND MISCELLANEOUS
CHAIRMAN BEN STEVENS called the Senate Labor & Commerce Committee
meeting to order at 1:35 p.m. and announced SB 244 to be up for
consideration.
SENATOR AUSTERMAN moved to adopt CSSB 244 (L&C), 22-LS1267\C,
There were no objections and it was so ordered.
MS. HEATHER BRAKES, Staff to Senator Therriault, Chairman of the
Budget and Audit Committee and sponsor of SB 244, explained the
changes in the committee substitute. Section 2 implements
recommendation #4 of the Audit Report eliminating reference to
the state exam and mandates an exam designed to test the
applicants' knowledge of Alaska's law in optometry.
Section 3 addresses recommendation #2 of the Audit, implementing
full licensure by credentials with requirements acceptable to the
Board, such as education, current licensure, active clinical
practice and no pending disciplinary actions in another
jurisdiction.
Section 4 has no changes from the previous hearing.
She worked on this language with the Legislative Auditor,
Director of Occupational Licensing and Dr. Christianson on the
Board of Examiners and Optometry.
DR. CHRISTIANSON said the Board could live with this language.
SENATOR DAVIS moved to adopt amendment #1 which inserts: "The
department may require the applicant to submit a photograph of
the applicant for its files, however the photograph may not be
forwarded with the application to the board for review."
SENATOR LEMAN commented:
I think we're making much ado about nothing…If someone
comes into an office and interviews for a job, you see
what they look like. You see a person. I don't know
where the thought is coming from, that somebody has
this idea and this amendment is sort of propagating it,
that if we see what somebody looks like, then we might
discriminate against them. Maybe because I don't think
that way, I don't know why others are so concerned
about it, but maybe this is a problem in the workplace.
I don't know.
SENATOR DAVIS stated:
When we received this package, it was recommended that
it not be in there at all. Upon your amendment, it was
taken out. I feel that it should be changed. I was the
only one that felt that it should have stayed the way
it was and I was willing to bring back this amendment
this way rather than do it somewhere else. Because I
see that there's nothing wrong with this going in there
that way. I don't know if somebody is going to
discriminate or not discriminate, but they could. And
even though you might not feel that way doesn't mean
that everybody else feels that way. I didn't say that
you took it out because you were discriminating
against. I felt that what you did was making an ado
about nothing when you three men voted to take it out,
but since I was in the minority, you had the vote; it
came out. So, now I'm bringing it back in a different
manner. You would still have a picture there so a
person could be identified when they get ready to take
the test. Somebody can identify who they are. I fill
out applications all the time and nobody has asked me
to give a picture. So, what's so good about having that
stuck in here. Around the nation they're not doing it.
The National Board does not recommend that that be in
there. So we're doing something over and above what the
National Board wants. I take exception to the fact that
you would say that I'm making much ado about nothing,
because I could say the very same thing when you made
the motion last week.
SENATOR LEMAN responded: "You just proved my point."
CHAIRMAN STEVENS asked if there were any further objections.
There were no objections and amendment #1 was adopted.
SENATOR AUSTERMAN moved to pass CSSB 244 (L&C) from committee
with individual recommendations. There were no objections and it
was so ordered.
SB 257-EXTEND BOARD OF PROFESSIONAL COUNSELORS
MS. DEBORAH GRUNDMANN, Staff to Senator Stevens, said SB 257
extends the Board of Professional Counselors to June 30, 2005.
The Legislative Budget and Audit Committee said their opinion is
that the Professional Counselors are operating in an efficient
and effective manner and should continue to regulate their
profession. They also recommended that this board be combined
with the Board of Marital and Family Therapists. This legislation
does not do that, but it extends the sunset date to coincide with
that of the marital and family therapists.
MS. GRUNDMANN explained that the proposed committee substitute
addresses the education part of the statute that pertains to the
professional counselors and was inserted in the House version of
the same bill.
SENATOR DAVIS moved to adopt the committee substitute to SB 257,
22 LS\1336\F. There were no objections and it was so ordered.
MS. GRUNDMANN said that page 2, line 11 adds "or nationally" and
the Department wanted that. It makes that language consistent
with "(B) regionally or nationally accredited".
CHAIRMAN STEVENS asked if it's a nationally accredited institute,
isn't it redundant to say "regionally or nationally".
MS. CATHERINE REARDON, Director, Division of Occupational
Licensing, replied that there are two different accrediting
bodies - some are regional and some are national. The reason she
was asking for this is the House opened up that section and it
seemed like an easy way to bring it up. For the master's degree,
the statute allowed the national accredited agrees, but there was
a slip up in the initial legislation and "national" got left out.
The Department of Law told the Board that it would be on weak
legal ground if it were to deny someone because they were
nationally, not regionally, accredited.
SENATOR LEMAN supported this change.
SENATOR AUSTERMAN moved to pass CSSB 257 (L&C) from committee
with individual recommendations and the fiscal note. There were
no objections and it was so ordered.
HCR 12-FOREIGN SHIPS AND U.S. LONGSHOREMEN
CHAIRMAN STEVENS announced HCR 12 to be up for consideration.
MR. TIM BENINTENDI, Staff to Representative Moses, sponsor of HCR
12, said this resolution addresses a long-standing unresolved
national labor issue which affects Alaskans whereby longshoremen
stand idle while ships of foreign registry from countries not
part of labor reciprocity agreements reflag their cargo vessels
as they pull into Alaskan ports. The problem is especially acute
in Dutch Harbor. The ships do this so that they can use their
own, often unskilled and untrained, crews to load and unload the
ships.
The reciprocity agreements and the exceptions to them and the
enforcement activity and the practice of reflagging are supposed
to be enforced by the State Department. The loopholes this is
addressing skirt the intention of the U.S. law. HCR 12 would
petition Congress and our State Department to close the loopholes
exploited by the reflagging activities.
SENATOR STEVENS asked where the ships would reflag before
entering U.S. waters.
MR. BENINTENDI replied that we have agreements with some nations
to use their labor when our ships are in their ports and we use
our labor when their ships are in our ports and then there are
countries that aren't part of these agreements. The problem is
when there are ships from countries that aren't part of these
agreements. As they approach a port, they simply reflag to be
able to use their cheaper and less skilled labor. It saves them
money and puts Alaskans out of work. When they pull out of port,
they can literally take the flag down and run their own flag back
up. He said this has been an issue for about 20 years.
CHAIRMAN STEVENS asked how much of the Bering Sea pollock that
goes over seas is being loaded on the vessels that reflag before
they enter U.S. waters.
MR. BENINTENDI replied that he didn't know for sure, but he
thought it was most of our production.
SENATOR TORGERSON asked if this affects the three-mile limit and
don't they load some of these boats a ways off-shore.
CHAIRMAN STEVENS replied that doesn't happen too much any more.
MR. BENINTENDI added that there is an Alaskan exception from
1993, which says the ships can use their own labor if there isn't
sufficient local labor, but in Dutch Harbor labor is always
available. The Alaskan exception is designed for small
communities like Togiak where there are no longshore workers.
This is not a problem there, but reflagging is being done in
Dutch Harbor, Kodiak and Seward.
SENATOR TORGESRON asked why the city doesn't sign project labor
agreements with the longshoremen.
MR. BENINTENDI said he didn't know why.
SENATOR TORGERSON asked if Dutch Harbor supported this
resolution.
MR. BENINTENDI said yes. He explained that Mr. Pete Hendrickson,
former President of the Longshoremen's Union in Dutch Harbor, is
in Washington, D.C. visiting the Alaskan delegation on this
issue. The unions, both regional and national, have participated
exhaustively over the years on this issue.
MR. PETE HENDRICKSON said he is currently representing Longshore
workers throughout Alaska on the international executive board.
Over the last three years, a large number of foreign
trampers visiting our waters to load seafood bound for
Europe and Asia have been filing for the reciprocity
exception to the Immigration and Nationality Act. They
can then displace Alaskan longshore workers by using
their own crewmembers to work cargo on the ship side of
loading operations. This is accomplished by
representing to the Immigration and Naturalization
Service that their flag of registry and majority
ownership are from countries that currently qualify for
this exception. The most common registries do not
qualify.
In virtually all cases, the vessels in question have
changed their flag just prior to arrival in order to
file for this exception, but the result has been the
loss of thousands of hours of work for Alaskans and has
resulted in loss of cargo and profits for those
American companies and foreign vessels that do employ
us, but cannot effective compete against foreign labor.
We believe the reciprocity exception no longer serves
any useful purpose for the United States since
apparently no American seafarers do any loading
elsewhere in the world any more anyway. As we have seen
here in Alaska, all this does is provide a mechanism by
which certain parties can exploit this exception in
order to avoid Alaskan labor.
Further, in the early 1990s we were able to convince
Congress to create what is known as the Alaska
exception to the Immigration and Nationality Act, which
provides for the loading work to be done by foreign
crew if Alaskan longshore workers are unavailable. This
guarantees that the work will always get done, which is
critical to the fishing industry. Our congressional
delegation was instrumental in accomplishing this and
particularly Senator Stevens was involved in that
effort then.
Therefore, we don't think the reciprocity exception
should really apply to Alaska. The alternative, if we
must live with this exception is to amend it so that
application is more true to the original intent and it
cannot be misused as it is today. In our view and
exception is the best solution.
He said that he is in Washington D.C. talking with the U.S.
Department of State and our congressional delegation about this
growing problem. Alaska Department of Labor Commissioner Flanagan
is also involved. "We think your support of our efforts to either
exempt Alaska or revised the law will be instrumental to our
success as we continue to work toward solution to what can only
be called a scam…"
SENATOR TORGERSON said he thought flagging a vessel had to do
with the country of registry. He asked if that was true.
MR. HENDRICKSON replied that he is correct, that the registry and
flag are generally of the same country.
SENATOR TORGERSON asked how they could change their flag when
they come into port.
MR. HENDRICKSON replied that vessels infrequently change
registries and flags for various reasons, especially when they
change ownership. It's common that a new owner may prefer a
different flag. Most ships in the world don't fly the flag of the
country where they are actually from. They fly a flag of
convenience from another country, which has minimal safety,
insurance and labor standards. That's why there are thousands of
Panamanian flagged ships, even though they have never been to
Panama.
SENATOR TORGERSON asked why we don't have labor agreements with
the municipality that prohibits this activity.
MR. HENDRICKSON replied that might be a solution in one location,
but the problem is bigger than that. In Dutch Harbor, for
instance, the city dock is not the only dock where this takes
place.
SENATOR TORGERSON asked if the other docks were private docks.
MR. HENDRICKSON replied yes, there are a number of private docks
in Dutch Harbor and just one city dock.
SENATOR TORGERSON asked if one of the reasons the companies built
their own docks was so they could do their own longshoring.
MR. HENRICKSON replied in some cases that might be true, but the
Longshoremen's Union does work on a lot of them. He explained
that a lot of the small companies have a small number of people
working for them and loading ships often takes 10 - 18 people on
a foreign vessel.
SENATOR LEMAN asked if reflagging is as simple as running another
flag up, is that consistent with international law and any
protocols we have with other countries.
MR. HENDRICKSON answered that there is little that can be done
about that.
But there is something in the U.N. Convention on the
Law of the Sea about changing flags in mid-stream, but
it isn't absolutely prohibited, nor has the United
States ratified that convention. So, basically, we are
high centered. It is technically legal to change your
flag and you don't have to give a particular reason.
I'm sure there's some cost associated with it, but I
believe that the labor savings in these cases must
somewhat exceed the cost of change of flag.
MR. BENINTENDI repeated the question of how much pollock destined
for overseas actually goes out under this loophole.
MR. HENDRICKSON replied at least a third of the offshore side of
the quota. The shore plants are more likely to be using Japanese
or Korean vessels to take their product away from the shore
plants. Japan and Korea don't have reciprocity and American
longshore workers do that work.
CHAIRMAN STEVENS asked if this problem was mostly with the
offshore fleet.
MR. HENDRICKSON replied yes. It's always the offshore product
that is loaded by the foreign crews.
There were no further comments.
SENATOR DAVIS moved to pass HCR 12 from committee with individual
recommendations. There were no objections and it was so ordered.
CHAIRMAN STEVENS adjourned the meeting at 2:07 p.m.
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