Legislature(1997 - 1998)

03/24/1998 01:38 PM L&C

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
         SENATE LABOR AND COMMERCE COMMITTEE                                   
                    March 24, 1998                                             
                      1:38 P.M.                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                
Senator Jerry Mackie, Vice Chairman                                            
Senator Tim Kelly                                                              
Senator Mike Miller                                                            
Senator Lyman Hoffman                                                          
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                 
Senator Loren Leman                                                            
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                             
CONFIRMATION HEARINGS:                                                         
     Alaska State board of public Accountancy                                  
          Marjorie J. Kaiser, C.P.A. - Anchorage                               
               Appointed: 07/16/97 Expires 04/25/01                            
          Steven R. Tarola, C.P.A. - Barrow                                    
               Appointed: 07/16/97 Expires 04/25/01                            
          Sandra R. Wilson - Fairbanks                                         
               Appointed: 07/16/97 Expires: 04/25/01                           
     Board of Barbers and Hairdressers                                         
          Lawrence R. Krupa - North Pole                                       
               Appointed: 04/08/94 Reappointed: 07/16/97 Expires:              
SENATE BILL NO. 335                                                            
"An Act relating to barbers, hairdressers, and cosmetologists."                
     - HEARD AND HELD                                                          
SENATE BILL NO. 198                                                            
"An Act relating to partnerships; amending Rules 25(c), 79, and 82,            
Alaska Rules of Civil Procedure; and providing for an effective                
     - PASSED CSSB198(L&C) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                    
PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION                                               
SB 335 - No previous action to consider.                                       
SB 198 - See Labor and Commerce minutes dated 2/10/98 and 2/17/98.             
WITNESS REGISTER                                                               
Mr. Robert Pearson, Intern                                                     
Senator Loren Leman                                                            
State Capitol Bldg.                                                            
Juneau, AK 99811-1182                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 335.                                       
Ms. Cheryl Sutton, Chairperson                                                 
Board of Barbers and Hairdressers                                              
The Sportsman                                                                  
205 Seward St.                                                                 
Juneau, AK 99801                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 335.                                          
Ms. Catherine Reardon, Director                                                
Division of Occupational Licensing                                             
Department of Commerce                                                         
P.O. Box 110806                                                                
Juneau, AK 99801-0806                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 335.                                       
Mr. Art Peterson                                                               
Uniform Law Commissioner                                                       
350 N. Franklin                                                                
Juneau, AK 99801                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported SB 198.                                          
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                               
TAPE 98-16, SIDE A                                                             
Number 001                                                                     
VICE CHAIRMAN MACKIE called the Senate Labor and Commerce Committee            
meeting to order at 1:38 p.m. and announced that Ms. Kaiser, C.P.A.            
was not available today, but they could review her resume' and                 
MS. SANDRA WILSON, Fairbanks, said she had been very involved in               
her professional activities as an accountant and will continue to              
do so.                                                                         
SENATOR KELLY said he didn't have any objections to the appointees             
and moved to send the standard letter to the Secretary of the                  
Senate.  There were no objections and it was so ordered.                       
VICE CHAIRMAN MACKIE asked if there were any comments regarding Mr.            
Lawrence Krupa.  There were none.                                              
SENATOR KELLY moved to forward his name to the Joint Body of the               
Legislature with the standard letter.  There were no objections and            
it was so ordered.                                                             
               SB 335 - LICENSING OF COSMETOLOGISTS                            
VICE CHAIRMAN MACKIE announced SB 335 to be up for consideration.              
MR. ROBERT PEARSON, Intern with Senator Leman, said he is also a               
public member of the Board of Barbers and Hairdressers.  He said               
the main objective for SB 335 was to provide a temporary license               
for people who graduated from school in barbering and hairdressing             
and cosmetology.  Because of the schedule of examinations in the               
State, many graduates have to wait for 90 days and sometimes more              
for the actual receipt of their professional license.  The Board               
has heard testimony from owners of some schools that it would be a             
relief from hardship for the students to be able to earn some                  
income and stay in practice while they await their Boards.                     
The Board unanimously approved of a regulation change, but the                 
statute does not authorize this temporary license.  The bill makes             
a change in terminology.  The word "cosmetologist" in Alaska is                
used for skin care of the head and face and in most of the other               
states it means almost the same as a hairdresser.  So                          
"cosmetologist" was changed to "esthetician" which more accurately             
informs the public of what the person is authorized to do.                     
Another change from current use is "hairdresser" in statute which              
includes shaving.  Right now shaving is not taught nor is there a              
test, so that word was eliminated.                                             
The Committee Substitute for SB 335 includes licensing of                      
manicurists which was not a formal recommendation of the Board last            
year, but an area of concern.                                                  
VICE CHAIRMAN MACKIE asked what health/safety issue that a                     
manicurist might find themselves in.                                           
MR. PEARSON said he didn't think it happened a great deal, but                 
there are occasional cuts and bleeding during a manicure, and also             
making sure the instruments are properly sterilized.                           
Number 168                                                                     
SENATOR HOFFMAN asked if manicurists who currently practice would              
be required to get a license.                                                  
MR. PEARSON answered there would be a transitional period of 180               
days and the exemptions that currently apply to people in smaller              
communities also apply for manicurists.                                        
VICE CHAIRMAN MACKIE asked what is involved in getting a license.              
MR. PEARSON said he thought the Board would have to adopt                      
regulations and presently barbers and hairdressers are trained to              
a degree that would be sufficient for automatic licensing.  Anyone             
else who could demonstrate adequate training would probably be                 
licensed automatically.  There would be a process for setting up               
Number 182                                                                     
SENATOR KELLY said they had discussed the manicuring licensure                 
before and he's nervous about it.  There are certain entry level               
positions out there, and while he recognized some health hazards,              
he was not sure he wanted to institutionalize manicurists.  He                 
thought they were asking them to go to school and the schools would            
charge them money and then they would have to pay for a license and            
he just didn't know if it was all that necessary.                              
SENATOR MILLER moved to adopt the CS to SB 335 for working                     
purposes.  SENATOR KELLY objected.                                             
SENATOR MILLER withdrew his motion.                                            
Number 227                                                                     
MS. CHERYL SUTTON, Chairman, Board of Barbers and Hairdressers,                
said she wants manicurists to be licensed because of the health                
issue.  She said she had recently had fake nails applied.                      
Manicurists have to grind the nail bed down so they can attach the             
nails.  There have been times when they have drawn blood.  She also            
felt that a manicurist uses files and tools that could draw blood,             
although it typically didn't happen.  HIV and Aids is a big issue              
when you do anything that draws blood.                                         
SENATOR HOFFMAN asked if people who just do nails would have to be             
MS. SUTTON answered yes.                                                       
VICE CHAIRMAN MACKIE asked if she had an idea what it would do to              
people who are currently practicing manicuring.  Would they have to            
go to school?                                                                  
MS. SUTTON said she thought it would be a hardship for people who              
are currently doing it, but she thought they needed to change                  
today, because there would be more problems in the future.                     
SENATOR KELLY said his concern was for the manicurist who would be             
required to have 350 hours of instruction or have to go to schools             
set up with elaborate courses with large apprentice programs for               
entry level positions.  He thought some hygiene instruction would              
be useful, but he didn't know how to get there without a full blown            
course.  He thought a manicuring permit for six - 10 hours might               
MS. SUTTON explained that people have decided to break away from               
the many things they were trained to do as a hairdresser and                   
specialize in one thing, like face care.  That was unlicensed, so              
other people would jump in and start doing face care without any               
training.  Finally, they made a permit and licensing system for                
people who just want to be an esthetician.                                     
Number 346                                                                     
MS. CATHERINE REARDON, Director, Division of Occupational                      
Licensing, said she had prepared a $0 fiscal note for the original             
bill and that the new temporary licenses could be absorbed within              
their current staff level.  She said she would refer to a bill from            
last session regarding licensing of manicurists to see how it would            
compare.  She had no problems with the original bill and the new               
terms and shaving.  She has some concerns with the draft CS and the            
licensing of manicurists.                                                      
VICE CHAIRMAN MACKIE said they would hold the bill for further                 
MS. REARDON said the transition section on page 9, line 28 doesn't             
grandfather in current businesses, but instead gives them 180 days             
to get licenses.  Exemptions for communities of smaller size is                
under 1,000 in population.                                                     
SENATOR KELLY asked if they have a problem with that size or does              
it work well.                                                                  
MS. REARDON said it seems to work in that people don't have to get             
licensed and they don't hear any complaints.  Because the                      
enforcement for unlicensed activity is a class B misdemeanor, it's             
unlikely that there will be rigorous enforcement.  This year they              
used an investigator to go around in Anchorage to do compliance                
checks which was successful.  They hadn't been to visit areas with             
under 1,000 people to make compliance checks while she had been                
here, so she didn't know if they were complying or ignoring them.              
SENATOR KELLY said they send their unlicensed people home until her            
people leave.                                                                  
MS. REARDON responded that they found some people who didn't have              
licenses and she thought surprise visits encouraged compliance.                
She added that requirements for the professions under this Board               
leave training requirements up to the Board.                                   
She has some concern for the trade offs and the effects on small               
business versus the public health and safety risk. There are quite             
a few activities out there that aren't licensed like piercing and              
tattoos and she looks for consistency in degrees of risk.  She also            
noted that DEC has the responsibility for checking out the health,             
safety, and sanitation aspects (page 7, line 20) of shops and                  
schools and they would be taking on the responsibility for                     
manicurists shops, too, any they might anticipate a fiscal note                
from them.  Several years ago, DEC didn't have the resources to                
check barber and hairdresser shops when they change hands, so they             
went to checking just one time when a shop opens.  Never again in              
the future, as much as she understands, do they get checked because            
of the lack of resources.                                                      
SENATOR HOFFMAN asked how many businesses do tattoos and piercing.             
MS. REARDON said she didn't know.                                              
SENATOR HOFFMAN said he thought that might be more serious than                
VICE CHAIRMAN MACKIE asked her to let the Committee know what types            
of things aren't being licensed right now.                                     
SENATOR KELLY said there was another issue of an instructor having             
to buy both an instructor's permit and a beautician's permit.                  
MS. REARDON added that they charge $100 for a two-year instructor              
license and $100 for a two-year hairdresser or barber license.  The            
reason they offer separate licenses is because the statute refers              
in a half dozen places to instructor licenses.  In looking at the              
financial self-sufficiency statute, it says each occupation within             
a Board will cover its own costs.  This is where they get the idea             
that the fee needs to cover any costs of instructor regulation                 
versus hairdresser regulation.  Personally, it doesn't bother her              
if it becomes an endorsement on a regular license.  She thought the            
issue would be the self-sufficiency mandate; if the legislature                
doesn't want them to track separate instructor costs, but to                   
collectivize the costs.  It would not be difficult to do, but she              
would need a statute change.  She explained that Legislative Budget            
and Audit took her to task for not rigidly applying that statute               
last year.                                                                     
SENATOR KELLY asked how many instructors there are.                            
MS. REARDON said the problem with rigidly applying the self-                   
sufficiency mandate will be that there are very few, 181                       
instructors, compared to 2,300 hairdressers, 288 barbers, and 507              
cosmetologists (to be called estheticians).                                    
SENATOR KELLY said he knew of two licensed instructors who weren't             
making any money off of being an instructor; they were making it               
off of straight beautician work.  He wondered why they had to pay              
$100 if they weren't making any money.                                         
MS. REARDON responded that the principal of having a license is                
that it costs the same whether you use it or not.  If an engineer,             
for example, decides to work less one year, they don't make his                
license less expensive.  So, it kind of comes down to the question             
of whether an instructor is a separate profession.  If it were not,            
she wouldn't need to have a separate fee.                                      
VICE CHAIRMAN MACKIE asked if there was any more testimony.                    
SENATOR KELLY remarked that he would like it to go in the direction            
of a manicurist's permit that requires a certain amount of health              
care training as opposed to a license with a large number of hours             
and an apprenticeship.  He thought you have to leave people who                
really need a job to be able to do this without making it too                  
difficult.  A lot of them simply don't have the time or money to do            
VICE CHAIRMAN MACKIE said he agreed and said he would hold the bill            
for further work.                                                              
                 SB 198 - UNIFORM PARTNERSHIP ACT                              
VICE CHAIRMAN MACKIE announced SB 198 to be up for consideration.              
MS. ANNETTE KREITZER, Staff to Senate Labor and Commerce Committee,            
said there was a  proposed CS to SB 198, 0LS0613\F by Bannister,               
dated 3/23/98, and she explained the changes.  "In the ordinary                
course of business" is a phrase that was used on page 36.  On page             
42, in the applicability section, Ms. Bannister pointed out a                  
possible constitutional problem with the way it was worded in the              
old bill.  Her concern was that the partnership could make the                 
elections after January 1, 1998, immediately notify a third party              
and change the partner's liability on the contract going back to               
one year before the election.  It would seem to violate the                    
prohibition against the impairment of contracts under Article 1,               
Section 15 of the State Constitution.  She suggested to just delete            
the language which the CS does.  The other change in the CS is                 
using bi-annual reports where it is appropriate, rather than annual            
reports because this is what the Division of Banking and Securities            
MS. KREITZER said there were additional amendments that hadn't been            
included in the CS and that it had taken a long time to get back               
from the drafter, and suggested that those could be addressed in               
the Senate Judiciary Committee.                                                
TAPE 98-16, SIDE B                                                             
VICE CHAIRMAN MACKIE asked her if she had read over the CS.                    
MS. KREITZER said she normally goes over a CS word-for-word, but               
she hadn't done that yet.                                                      
MR. ART PETERSON, Uniform Law Commissioner, agreed with Ms.                    
Kreitzer's recommendation that they accept the CS and move it on to            
the Judiciary Committee where further amendments could be                      
addressed.  The two amendments proposed by Senator Kelly's                     
constituents were on other types of entities that aren't even dealt            
with in this bill and recommended that they not be incorporated in             
this bill.                                                                     
SENATOR KELLY asked if this bill was a recommendation from the                 
Uniform Law Commission.                                                        
MR. PETERSON said it was.                                                      
SENATOR KELLY asked how much of the CS he agreed with.                         
MR. PETERSON replied that he agreed with all of it.                            
SENATOR KELLY said once they get away from his recommendations,                
they are getting away from the Uniform Code which makes it                     
difficult to do business.  The whole idea of the Uniform Code is               
that all 50 states would eventually agree with each other.                     
MR. PETERSON said that was an invaluable point; to facilitate the              
business in Alaska by Alaskans with those outside and those outside            
who want to do business in Alaska is exactly the value of the                  
Uniform Act system.  Changing annual reports to bi-annual reports              
should not cause a problem.  There is no problem conforming with               
other states.                                                                  
Number 544                                                                     
SENATOR HOFFMAN asked if there was a short test the Committee could            
take, so they know what they are passing out.                                  
MR. PETERSON said he could provide them with a short summary.                  
SENATOR KELLY moved to adopt the CS to SB 198.  There were no                  
objections and it was so ordered.                                              
SENATOR KELLY moved to pass CSSB 198(L&C) from Committee with                  
individual recommendations.  There were no objections and it was so            
Number 527                                                                     
VICE CHAIRMAN MACKIE adjourned the meeting at 2:30 p.m.                        

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